Fractal/open world Legendary armor

[Tyson.5160]

> @"BlaqueFyre.5678" said:

> > @"Astralporing.1957" said:

> > > @"BlaqueFyre.5678" said:

> > > Again you seemed to have missed the point which is a common occurrence, Every game mode has one sub mode that provides a route to Legendary Armor

> > No, _you_ missed it. A small niche submode is not the same as main content. There's a difference between having 5% and 95% of content providing a path, and trying to make those seem equal is nothing more than intentionally misrepresenting the situation.

> >

>

> Nope it’s 1 Path per Gamemode, and a specific submode of each Gamemode and each submode they chose are the more competitive of the available submodes per gamemodes funny how that works and Anet has stuck with that through all the whining from people wanting it to be different, it’s pretty obvious.

 

People were complaining about not getting Legendary Armor from unranked and EOTM?

[BlaqueFyre.5678]

> @"Tyson.5160" said:

> > @"BlaqueFyre.5678" said:

> > > @"Astralporing.1957" said:

> > > > @"BlaqueFyre.5678" said:

> > > > Again you seemed to have missed the point which is a common occurrence, Every game mode has one sub mode that provides a route to Legendary Armor

> > > No, _you_ missed it. A small niche submode is not the same as main content. There's a difference between having 5% and 95% of content providing a path, and trying to make those seem equal is nothing more than intentionally misrepresenting the situation.

> > >

> >

> > Nope it’s 1 Path per Gamemode, and a specific submode of each Gamemode and each submode they chose are the more competitive of the available submodes per gamemodes funny how that works and Anet has stuck with that through all the whining from people wanting it to be different, it’s pretty obvious.

>

> People were complaining about not getting Legendary Armor from unranked and EOTM?

 

Yeah it was pretty funny, they wanted all the same rewards as the Mistwars and Ranked seasons

[Tyson.5160]

> @"BlaqueFyre.5678" said:

> > @"Tyson.5160" said:

> > > @"BlaqueFyre.5678" said:

> > > > @"Astralporing.1957" said:

> > > > > @"BlaqueFyre.5678" said:

> > > > > Again you seemed to have missed the point which is a common occurrence, Every game mode has one sub mode that provides a route to Legendary Armor

> > > > No, _you_ missed it. A small niche submode is not the same as main content. There's a difference between having 5% and 95% of content providing a path, and trying to make those seem equal is nothing more than intentionally misrepresenting the situation.

> > > >

> > >

> > > Nope it’s 1 Path per Gamemode, and a specific submode of each Gamemode and each submode they chose are the more competitive of the available submodes per gamemodes funny how that works and Anet has stuck with that through all the whining from people wanting it to be different, it’s pretty obvious.

> >

> > People were complaining about not getting Legendary Armor from unranked and EOTM?

>

> Yeah it was pretty funny, they wanted all the same rewards as the Mistwars and Ranked seasons

 

News to me. Was this in the forums? First I heard of this and I spent hours everyday in the pvp lobby for the last year.

[BlaqueFyre.5678]

> @"Tyson.5160" said:

> > @"BlaqueFyre.5678" said:

> > > @"Tyson.5160" said:

> > > > @"BlaqueFyre.5678" said:

> > > > > @"Astralporing.1957" said:

> > > > > > @"BlaqueFyre.5678" said:

> > > > > > Again you seemed to have missed the point which is a common occurrence, Every game mode has one sub mode that provides a route to Legendary Armor

> > > > > No, _you_ missed it. A small niche submode is not the same as main content. There's a difference between having 5% and 95% of content providing a path, and trying to make those seem equal is nothing more than intentionally misrepresenting the situation.

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > Nope it’s 1 Path per Gamemode, and a specific submode of each Gamemode and each submode they chose are the more competitive of the available submodes per gamemodes funny how that works and Anet has stuck with that through all the whining from people wanting it to be different, it’s pretty obvious.

> > >

> > > People were complaining about not getting Legendary Armor from unranked and EOTM?

> >

> > Yeah it was pretty funny, they wanted all the same rewards as the Mistwars and Ranked seasons

>

> News to me. Was this in the forums? First I heard of this and I spent hours everyday in the pvp lobby for the last year.

 

Yeah it was in the forums and it pops up every once in a while.

[Astralporing.1957]

> @"Tyson.5160" said:

> > @"BlaqueFyre.5678" said:

> > > @"Tyson.5160" said:

> > > People were complaining about not getting Legendary Armor from unranked and EOTM?

> >

> > Yeah it was pretty funny, they wanted all the same rewards as the Mistwars and Ranked seasons

>

> News to me. Was this in the forums? First I heard of this and I spent hours everyday in the pvp lobby for the last year.

There _was_ one or two posts like that. They died pretty fast though, as it didn't pose any real problem. The one person talking about unranked just wanted to have access to season reward track off-season, if i remember right.

 

> @"BlaqueFyre.5678" said:

> > @"Astralporing.1957" said:

> > > @"BlaqueFyre.5678" said:

> > > Again you seemed to have missed the point which is a common occurrence, Every game mode has one sub mode that provides a route to Legendary Armor

> > No, _you_ missed it. A small niche submode is not the same as main content. There's a difference between having 5% and 95% of content providing a path, and trying to make those seem equal is nothing more than intentionally misrepresenting the situation.

> >

>

> Nope it’s 1 Path per Gamemode, and a specific submode of each Gamemode and each submode they chose are the more competitive of the available submodes per gamemodes funny how that works and Anet has stuck with that through all the whining from people wanting it to be different, it’s pretty obvious.

 

So, a path that consists of the huge majority of one gamemode and excludes only one minor submode is suddenly considered to be equal to a path that consists of only a small submode and excludes majority of content of that gamemode.

 

Yeah, you're not misrepresenting the situation at all [/sarcasm]

[Tyson.5160]

Sorry, I’m getting these threads all mixed up. What does this have to do with Legendary Fractal Armor?

[BlaqueFyre.5678]

> @"Astralporing.1957" said:

> > @"Tyson.5160" said:

> > > @"BlaqueFyre.5678" said:

> > > > @"Tyson.5160" said:

> > > > People were complaining about not getting Legendary Armor from unranked and EOTM?

> > >

> > > Yeah it was pretty funny, they wanted all the same rewards as the Mistwars and Ranked seasons

> >

> > News to me. Was this in the forums? First I heard of this and I spent hours everyday in the pvp lobby for the last year.

> There _was_ one or two posts like that. They died pretty fast though, as it didn't pose any real problem. The one person talking about unranked just wanted to have access to season reward track off-season, if i remember right.

>

> > @"BlaqueFyre.5678" said:

> > > @"Astralporing.1957" said:

> > > > @"BlaqueFyre.5678" said:

> > > > Again you seemed to have missed the point which is a common occurrence, Every game mode has one sub mode that provides a route to Legendary Armor

> > > No, _you_ missed it. A small niche submode is not the same as main content. There's a difference between having 5% and 95% of content providing a path, and trying to make those seem equal is nothing more than intentionally misrepresenting the situation.

> > >

> >

> > Nope it’s 1 Path per Gamemode, and a specific submode of each Gamemode and each submode they chose are the more competitive of the available submodes per gamemodes funny how that works and Anet has stuck with that through all the whining from people wanting it to be different, it’s pretty obvious.

>

> So, a path that consists of the huge majority of one gamemode and excludes only one minor submode is suddenly considered to be equal to a path that consists of only a small submode and excludes majority of content of that gamemode.

>

> Yeah, you're not misrepresenting the situation at all [/sarcasm]

 

Again they chose the more competitive/harder submode out of each Gamemode to give Legendary Armor to, it’s pretty simple to see, Sorry that certain people don’t like that, but it’s clear across the board in all gamemodes and Anet stuck to that, as I stated above. .#rc

[Draco.9480]

it shouldn't be from open world nor fractals. they're too faceroll and they'll involve some kind of annoying long grind. the lege armor from raids includes open world grind in the jungle.

[Tyson.5160]

> @"Draco.9480" said:

> it shouldn't be from open world nor fractals. they're too faceroll and they'll involve some kind of annoying long grind. the lege armor from raids includes open world grind in the jungle.

 

All the armor’s involve an annoying grind, not sure what point your trying to make.

[Draco.9480]

> @"Tyson.5160" said:

> > @"Draco.9480" said:

> > it shouldn't be from open world nor fractals. they're too faceroll and they'll involve some kind of annoying long grind. the lege armor from raids includes open world grind in the jungle.

>

> All the armor’s involve an annoying grind, not sure what point your trying to make.

 

not really. simple armor doesn't require grind. legendary does.

[Ohoni.6057]

> @"maddoctor.2738" said:

>There is one flaw here though, playing in VB and playing in TD doesn't only give account bound rewards (airship parts and ley line crystals) but also gold and material rewards. You can balance the currencies to have an appropriate ratio based on how much you can earn (exchange at a loss) but what about liquid rewards?

 

Like I said, this is already an issue, and one that they should address whether they do anything else or not. Nothing I've proposed makes this *worse.* They do need to balance the liquid gold type rewards a bit better from map to map, again, not *perfectly,* but better than they have. The thing is though, most of these maps don't have many "unique" rewards, and what they do have you can earn in a matter of days or weeks of farming. Once you have, then there's nothing left *but* "liquid" rewards. If, on the other hand, you could farm for accountbound currencies that could then be spent elsewhere on new unique rewards, it would give you new reasons to farm in the zones that appeal to you, beyond the liquid rewards. It adds flexibility to the system.

 

>If playing in VB gives better liquid rewards than playing in TD then even if Airship Parts are exchange at a huge loss with Ley Line Crystals, players would still prefer VB.

 

Maybe, but how is that different from how it is today?

 

>The reason Silverwastes, Palawadan and AB ML were popular wasn't because of the map tokens you got there. In a sense adding a way to trade currency from an already super popular liquid reward map for currencies of other maps, even at a huge loss, would still not make the less popular maps any better.

 

Again, balancing out the popular farms is a completely separate issue to resolve. They *can* do it, they have *chosen* not to try, and whatever results, with or without my suggestion, would be based on that choice. We've both made our stance clear on what we believe *should* change there, but nothing about my proposal would imapct the situation negatively.

 

 

[Feanor.2358]

> @"Astralporing.1957" said:

> > @"BlaqueFyre.5678" said:

> > Again you seemed to have missed the point which is a common occurrence, Every game mode has one sub mode that provides a route to Legendary Armor

> No, _you_ missed it. A small niche submode is not the same as main content. There's a difference between having 5% and 95% of content providing a path, and trying to make those seem equal is nothing more than intentionally misrepresenting the situation.

>

 

You're exaggerating heavily here. In both directions.

[nia.4725]

> @"Feanor.2358" said:

> > @"Astralporing.1957" said:

> > > @"BlaqueFyre.5678" said:

> > > Again you seemed to have missed the point which is a common occurrence, Every game mode has one sub mode that provides a route to Legendary Armor

> > No, _you_ missed it. A small niche submode is not the same as main content. There's a difference between having 5% and 95% of content providing a path, and trying to make those seem equal is nothing more than intentionally misrepresenting the situation.

> >

>

> You're exaggerating heavily here. In both directions.

 

5% is not quite correct: https://i.imgur.com/rgRUT2G.png

 

It's in spanish because I'm lazy enough to not change GW2Efficiency to English but I think it can be understood.

[maddoctor.2738]

> @"Ohoni.6057" said:

> We've both made our stance clear on what we believe *should* change there, but nothing about my proposal would imapct the situation negatively.

 

Well, if you believe that, I can't say anything else that I haven't already.

[Astralporing.1957]

> @"Feanor.2358" said:

> > @"Astralporing.1957" said:

> > > @"BlaqueFyre.5678" said:

> > > Again you seemed to have missed the point which is a common occurrence, Every game mode has one sub mode that provides a route to Legendary Armor

> > No, _you_ missed it. A small niche submode is not the same as main content. There's a difference between having 5% and 95% of content providing a path, and trying to make those seem equal is nothing more than intentionally misrepresenting the situation.

> >

>

> You're exaggerating heavily here. In both directions.

Maybe. Still, it's comparing a niche narrow content with everything except niche and narrow content and trying to present them as if they were somehow equal.

 

Seriously, any attempt to present EotM as being a path equal in width to, practically _the whole of WvW_, makes any argument based on such "comparison" completely worthless.

 

Saying that Raids when compared to the whole of PvE are the same as the Battlegrounds+EB for WvW makes the argument even weaker (if that's even possible).

 

> @"nia.4725" said:

> 5% is not quite correct: https://i.imgur.com/rgRUT2G.png

>

> It's in spanish because I'm lazy enough to not change GW2Efficiency to English but I think it can be understood.

Thank you for proving my main point for me (10% instead of 5% works equally fine).

[Tyson.5160]

Do you think that adding the addition of fractal legendary would actually drive new players into the T4 content?

[nia.4725]

> @"Astralporing.1957" said:

> > @"Feanor.2358" said:

> > > @"Astralporing.1957" said:

> > > > @"BlaqueFyre.5678" said:

> > > > Again you seemed to have missed the point which is a common occurrence, Every game mode has one sub mode that provides a route to Legendary Armor

> > > No, _you_ missed it. A small niche submode is not the same as main content. There's a difference between having 5% and 95% of content providing a path, and trying to make those seem equal is nothing more than intentionally misrepresenting the situation.

> > >

> >

> > You're exaggerating heavily here. In both directions.

> Maybe. Still, it's comparing a niche narrow content with everything except niche and narrow content and trying to present them as if they were somehow equal.

>

> Seriously, any attempt to present EotM as being a path equal in width to, practically _the whole of WvW_, makes any argument based on such "comparison" completely worthless.

>

> Saying that Raids when compared to the whole of PvE are the same as the Battlegrounds+EB for WvW makes the argument even weaker (if that's even possible).

>

> > @"nia.4725" said:

> > 5% is not quite correct: https://i.imgur.com/rgRUT2G.png

> >

> > It's in spanish because I'm lazy enough to not change GW2Efficiency to English but I think it can be understood.

> Thank you for proving my main point for me (10% instead of 5% works equally fine).

 

20%. But now gw2efficiency data is fine? I was expecting to be told gw2effiency isn't a reliable data source, feelsbadman

[nia.4725]

> @"Tyson.5160" said:

> Do you think that adding the addition of fractal legendary would actually drive new players into the T4 content?

 

Yes, surely. But a lof of people already do T4, I don't think it's a minority.

[Astralporing.1957]

> @"nia.4725" said:

> > @"Astralporing.1957" said:

> > > @"Feanor.2358" said:

> > > > @"Astralporing.1957" said:

> > > > > @"BlaqueFyre.5678" said:

> > > > > Again you seemed to have missed the point which is a common occurrence, Every game mode has one sub mode that provides a route to Legendary Armor

> > > > No, _you_ missed it. A small niche submode is not the same as main content. There's a difference between having 5% and 95% of content providing a path, and trying to make those seem equal is nothing more than intentionally misrepresenting the situation.

> > > >

> > >

> > > You're exaggerating heavily here. In both directions.

> > Maybe. Still, it's comparing a niche narrow content with everything except niche and narrow content and trying to present them as if they were somehow equal.

> >

> > Seriously, any attempt to present EotM as being a path equal in width to, practically _the whole of WvW_, makes any argument based on such "comparison" completely worthless.

> >

> > Saying that Raids when compared to the whole of PvE are the same as the Battlegrounds+EB for WvW makes the argument even weaker (if that's even possible).

> >

> > > @"nia.4725" said:

> > > 5% is not quite correct: https://i.imgur.com/rgRUT2G.png

> > >

> > > It's in spanish because I'm lazy enough to not change GW2Efficiency to English but I think it can be understood.

> > Thank you for proving my main point for me (10% instead of 5% works equally fine).

>

> 20%. But now gw2efficiency data is fine? I was expecting to be told gw2effiency isn't a reliable data source, feelsbadman

Oh, it is reliable. I mean, we don't have any reason to think the statistics on that site are in any way falsified or anything. Still, when using the data from it you need to know two facts. First is that the results will be skewed, due to selection bias. Second is that while we can be reasonably sure of the direction of said bias, we have no way to know how big its magnitude is. We can be reasonably sure that the site will overrepresent the raiding community, but we don't know how big the overrepresentation is. So, basically, all we can say is that the number of players that killed at least one boss is not higher than the 20% from the site, and number of players that raid at least semi-regularly is not higher than ~10%. And "not higher" can in this case be anything from a low single digits up to those numbers.

 

By the way, 94% of gw2efficiency players don't have a single legendary armor skin. 91.5% don't have a single gaeting crystal. Again, among the whole game population those numbers are likely higher.

 

All that simply reinforce the point i was making. Claiming a narrow path is the same as a wide avenue doesn't make any arguments based on such claim to seem reasonable at all.

 

> @"nia.4725" said:

> > @"Tyson.5160" said:

> > Do you think that adding the addition of fractal legendary would actually drive new players into the T4 content?

>

> Yes, surely. But a lof of people already do T4, I don't think it's a minority.

Gw2efficiency shows that number of accounts with fractal level 100 is lower than 20%. Again, remembering that the actual numbers are likely even lower, due to gw2eff being skewed towards hardcores and achievers.

[thrag.9740]

As someone who has legendary armor, I'm gona throw this out there: its a huge failure. It can't be dyed, your either a perpetual white knight or you reskin it. The overwhelming majority of players I know who have 150+ LI have no desire to make it. And a large chunk of players who have it reskin it (myself included). People claim the stat swapping/rune swapping make it nice, but the truth is, its faster (and a heck of a lot cheaper) to just have a whole extra set of ascended armor. The only way legendary armor is practical is through using 3rd party software to implement features that should have been in the game since release.

 

Legendary armor is a huge failure and we shouldn't encourage more of it.

[Tyson.5160]

> @"thrag.9740" said:

> As someone who has legendary armor, I'm gona throw this out there: its a huge failure. It can't be dyed, your either a perpetual white knight or you reskin it. The overwhelming majority of players I know who have 150+ LI have no desire to make it. And a large chunk of players who have it reskin it (myself included). People claim the stat swapping/rune swapping make it nice, but the truth is, its faster (and a heck of a lot cheaper) to just have a whole extra set of ascended armor. The only way legendary armor is practical is through using 3rd party software to implement features that should have been in the game since release.

>

> Legendary armor is a huge failure and we shouldn't encourage more of it.

 

Interesting perspective thrag. How would you feel if Fractals provided a unique fractal inspired ascended armor set?

[CptAurellian.9537]

> @"thrag.9740" said:

> As someone who has legendary armor, I'm gona throw this out there: its a huge failure. It can't be dyed, your either a perpetual white knight or you reskin it. The overwhelming majority of players I know who have 150+ LI have no desire to make it. And a large chunk of players who have it reskin it (myself included). People claim the stat swapping/rune swapping make it nice, but the truth is, its faster (and a heck of a lot cheaper) to just have a whole extra set of ascended armor. The only way legendary armor is practical is through using 3rd party software to implement features that should have been in the game since release.

>

> Legendary armor is a huge failure and we shouldn't encourage more of it.

 

With regard to the skins, I partly agree. All the development effort that has apparently gone into envoy armor does not justify to the results, which are ... mediocre. I think they already have learned that it's not worth to put so much (animation) effort into armor sets again. Concerning the functionality, however, I strongly disagree. On each of my two characters with legy armor (guard and mesmer), it replaces 4+ sets of ascended armor _and_ provides possibilities for experiments I could not do with ascended armor. Also, arc templates are a thing. You can argue that build templates are should be baseline, but that does not change the fact they are available to us. Functionality-wise, legy armor is excellent (weapons are a failure, though) and there is no reason why there should not be more of it, provided the ways of earning it are appropriate.

[maxwelgm.4315]

I don't know how this thread turned into its current discussions but, It would be be totally cool to have Fractal armor in any way whatsoever even if non-legendary. Armor skin development **for armor that is given by content** has grinded to a halt after legendary armor was announced, and **has not picked up the pace since then**. We have amazing sets that shipped in with PoF such as Warbeast, but no full sets released within LS4 for example. For a game that takes pride in being "Fashion Wars" and being all about horizontal progression, their main selling point (skins) release pace is abysmal to say the least, and this is unacceptable **even** if armor development is the most resource consuming process in their cycle. They ought to find a way to make the main point of the game more efficient or simply change their focus into a more vertical thing like agony. And let's not even get started with having 80% of fancy animated skins be gemstore exclusive, or how they have decided somewhere down the line to simply give up on testing armor matches and just releasing full outfits (also only on the gemstore, this time 100% of them).

[Tyson.5160]

> @"maxwelgm.4315" said:

> I don't know how this thread turned into its current discussions but, It would be be totally cool to have Fractal armor in any way whatsoever even if non-legendary. Armor skin development **for armor that is given by content** has grinded to a halt after legendary armor was announced, and **has not picked up the pace since then**. We have amazing sets that shipped in with PoF such as Warbeast, but no full sets released within LS4 for example. For a game that takes pride in being "Fashion Wars" and being all about horizontal progression, their main selling point (skins) release pace is abysmal to say the least, and this is unacceptable **even** if armor development is the most resource consuming process in their cycle. They ought to find a way to make the main point of the game more efficient or simply change their focus into a more vertical thing like agony. And let's not even get started with having 80% of fancy animated skins be gemstore exclusive, or how they have decided somewhere down the line to simply give up on testing armor matches and just releasing full outfits (also only on the gemstore, this time 100% of them).

 

I must admit, at times the gem store armors are better looking, have better customization and have better effects then Legendary Armor, sadly

[thrag.9740]

> @"Tyson.5160" said:

> > @"thrag.9740" said:

> > As someone who has legendary armor, I'm gona throw this out there: its a huge failure. It can't be dyed, your either a perpetual white knight or you reskin it. The overwhelming majority of players I know who have 150+ LI have no desire to make it. And a large chunk of players who have it reskin it (myself included). People claim the stat swapping/rune swapping make it nice, but the truth is, its faster (and a heck of a lot cheaper) to just have a whole extra set of ascended armor. The only way legendary armor is practical is through using 3rd party software to implement features that should have been in the game since release.

> >

> > Legendary armor is a huge failure and we shouldn't encourage more of it.

>

> Interesting perspective thrag. How would you feel if Fractals provided a unique fractal inspired ascended armor set?

 

I think its pretty sad that dead content like dungeons each have their own armor skin set for each weight class, but fractals which are supposedly the supported end game content, dont have any. Fractal armor is way overdue, I just don't think it should be legendary. If you want it to be ascended I think that would be fitting. Legendary armor is super expensive to make in terms of player resources, and super flashy skins are costly in developer resources, and at this point considering how easy it is to get ascended armor, I'd rather not have to drop 2k gold to get the fractal armor skins. I think ascended armor with some nice, dyable yet fitting skins would be good. Also, if we get fractal armor and its dyable please let us finally dye our legendary backpacks (I'm noticing a theme with dying and legendary items....).

 

> @"CptAurellian.9537" said:

> > @"thrag.9740" said:

> > The only way legendary armor is practical is through using 3rd party software to implement features that should have been in the game since release.

>

> Concerning the functionality, however, I strongly disagree. On each of my two characters with legy armor (guard and mesmer), it replaces 4+ sets of ascended armor _and_ provides possibilities for experiments I could not do with ascended armor. Also, arc templates are a thing. You can argue that build templates are should be baseline, but that does not change the fact they are available to us. Functionality-wise, legy armor is excellent (weapons are a failure, though) and there is no reason why there should not be more of it, provided the ways of earning it are appropriate.

 

I think it is fair to say arc dps build templates have excellent functionality. But once you have that software, the only thing legendary armor does for you is save 5 inventory slots per build (6 armor slots minus 1 for the runes you carry with it). For 1800 gold , you could buy 12 bag slot expansions or make 13 of the 32-slot bags. The first option is buying you 240 inventory slots, the second is (assuming you were previously running 20 slot bags) buying you 156 inventory slots. I used gw2effeciency to estimate these prices/costs, so let me know if I screwed up. In order for legendary armor to be competitive in inventory space savings, you need to be swapping between around 30 different builds at best and 48 builds at worst. Now, maybe you place value on ascended armor. But for players who raid regularly (which are the ones likely to have legendary armor), ascended armor is close to free.

 

Ill grant you that for experimentation legendary armor is unparalleled but for practical build swapping to do content your basically grinding out such as raids or fractals, if your a player who has easy access to near limitless ascended armor (i.e. you do raids and/or fractals), its an overpriced option, and without third party software its the slower option too.