Playing with the soulbeast is boring and underwhelming.

[Krispera.5087]

Said SBeast was uninspiring before launch and it's still is. Most of Beast skills takes way too long to cast. It still promotes pet camping, instead of pet swapping. Stances and traits are boring. Power SBeast is a one trick pony.

 

Only good thing is : Condi SBeast, Bear Stance, Dolyak Stance, damage % on fury trait, damage % if HP over target and merged Jacaranda (Why is the AoE only 180 radius, when most of skills are 360 radius like the Renegade's Spirit ?).

[Bast Bow.2958]

> @jcbroe.4329 said:

> > @"Bast Bow.2958" said:

> > > @jcbroe.4329 said:

> > > What's bothering me more than anything is mostly just the lack of objective opinions across multiple gamemodes.

> > >

> > > Yeah, Soulbeast was destined to be a condi Ranger upgrade in PvE. It's a condi autoattack weapon we previously didn't have with passive damage boosting traits.

> > >

> > > That doesn't make it a good spec though, that just makes the weapon good in 1/3 modes and some of the traits good in 1/3 modes.

> > >

> > > What about the mechanic? What about the other game modes? What about the other traits?

> > >

> > > Personally, I found Soulbeast unusable in legend/plat queues in PvP. You sacrifice all of your defensive utility for just 1 usable skill and 2 subpar skills (which is the case on the vast majority of the pets, especially the ones you'd want to use outside of Beastmode).

> > >

> > > Sure, you're a glass cannon, okay. But every other class including glass core ranger and glass Druid outperform Soulbeast at that role.

> > >

> > > In WvW, yes, you can stance share and yes, it's fantastic for group play. But. You don't bring anything that a Guardian/Firebrand can't do better in that party slot when it comes to organized play, and when groups start optimizing Soulbeast will not suddenly become a requested WvW party/squad class.

> > >

> > > I'm glad people are enjoying that they can get better DPS numbers on PvE sponge golems, I really am. But that one aspect is not enough to redeem what that spec fails to offer elsewhere.

> >

> > Fair enough. Allthough I'm hyped and enthousiastic about soulbeast. I agree with you here.

> >

> > Though I'm wondering, what is an objective oppinion in this case?

> >

> > When people throw out numbers and theory? There's a lot of those here.

> > When people prove things in practise like in a video? Combined with theory?

> > Or have become a little, or much famous as a ranger?

> >

> >

>

> Objective as in providing reasoning or logic (at the very least) to support how people are responding.

>

> While there are many people doing this, there are just as many using generic "good, bad, fun, not fun" as qualifiers.

>

> Those aren't metrics, let alone something that ANet can even use as reliable feedback, much less anybody else.

>

> I'm sure somebody enjoyed the old ET game that was buried in the desert too, but that doesn't mean it didn't deserve to be buried in the desert.

 

Ok, Yes. Agree too. Though I'm still thinking if "fun" wouldn't count as an oppinion. At the moment I actually think it does, also for Anet. What do you think?

It depends on what the audience is. You want most of your customers to be satisfied, enjoying the game, "fun", right?

But what's fun? Most metrics need to be well balanced in order to let a game be fun. The more hardcore players you have, probably because of more hardcore playable content, the more metrics need to be well balanced.

Would Anet have enough resources, as in time, money, employees to focus on the whole broadth of the game and their players, both hardcore and more casual to deliver in as little time possible to the customer? One wanting more live content or a specilisation that looks or feels cool, the other wants every number and 0,5% of profession specific skills and traits to be balanced out, and then there are more subjects that ask attention too.

 

Just some thoughts, kinda off topic sorry.

 

Totally agree on what Anet can work with about ranger balancing should be about metrics, Numbers etc. Though I also think that's more complex then it looks like sometimes. A lot of posters are just posting numbers, but I think in game there's a lot of variables that come in which can change that initial formula. Then video's help to see what actually is possible like in dmg-numbers for example, on a golem, with those specific boons and conditions, on your own, at that time. Which is not on a raidboss for example. Again, so many variables.

 

To react immediately after launch to go alter things doesn't seem like a wise idea, because it's a complex system. You need time to let the dust settle and see what's left and then react accordingly, I think.

 

If I'm wrong, I'm listening

 

[Kain Francois.4328]

I am completely happy with soulbeast, and cannot understand what people mean by "it's underwhelming".

 

I think the balance could be finetuned a bit in many areas. However, conceptually, I still think it's great as a concept.

[Bast Bow.2958]

Never mind.

[Arheundel.6451]

> @jcbroe.4329 said:

> > @mistsim.2748 said:

> > > @jcbroe.4329 said:

> > > Sure, you're a glass cannon, okay. But every other class including glass core ranger and glass Druid outperform Soulbeast at that role.

> >

> > this is a misunderstanding on your part. the SB tree gives a +22% damage modifier, 4s of unblockable, and double swoop with the gazelle and GS. you cant get this kind of damage and mobility with core. i would argue that the glassbow SB is probably the best "glass" spec in the game right now.

> >

> > unfortunately, i lost a crapton of rank testing bad builds, but in low plat i've been able to annihilate every druid ive come across with the glassbow SB. i mean what are u gonna do against 10s of unblockable from 1500? if you approach me, i'll just double swoop out and reset.

> >

> >

> >

>

> It's not a misunderstanding; it's the same conversation we've had since the game launched.

>

> **Ranger has never lacked the damage it needed to be competitive.**

>

> Before trait reworks, it was the survivability it needed to not be ganked. Before Druid, it was the team support and/or mobility it needed to be competitive with other high damage builds. With the most recent round of core changes, Ranger has the survivability for fighting and dealing with ganks as well as the mobility it needs to get from place to place, fight to fight, etc.

>

> What does Soulbeast offer? More group utility than core, less than Druid, and less survivability than both, and it comes at the cost of the damage trait that would even be the selling point for running Soulbeast, which means the only thing you do with Soulbeast is more damage, **which is the thing that Ranger was never lacking.**

>

> I've watched you post a few times now about your concepts of "manliness" or what you feel is cheap or cheese or not now btw, and I have to say while I'm happy you take pride in your gameplay, you're genuinely crippling your mindset which will eventually leave you with the inability to keep pace with top tier gameplay.

>

> There's this fantastic article that I can't for the life of me find from googling atm, but I wish I could link it for you. In summary (I apologize for my use of second person throughout this); assigning the concept of a cheap strategy based on some sense of honor cripples you and your ability to play competitively because you're forcing this idea of honorable gameplay to be the way you play so you'll never adopt a efficient/winning strategy if it doesn't exist within this concept of honorable gameplay you've created, even though technically you're the one who isn't playing the game it was intended to be played by not utilizing strategies made available to you. On top of that, you don't learn from your gameplay against better opponents or opponents using strategies you designate is cheap/dishonorable; you simply label them as such and dismiss them when instead you should learn them and incorporate them into your gameplay when possible if your true goal was just to be as competitive as possible.

>

> It's driving me crazy now that I can't find this article.

>

> P.S. not just in this thread; but you should probably stop assigning gender to how you hold respect for or intend disrespect to builds/concepts/etc. Depending on the person, it's incredibly offensive, and also misleading to imply gender has anything to do with competition, gameplay efficacy, or etc.

>

> Edit: found it: http://www.sirlin.net/articles/playing-to-win

 

Regardless of what @"mistsim.2748" said in that contest, personally **I still fail to understand how people can objectively consider Soulbeast less survivable than druid..let alone core ranger**

 

I am talking from a PvP/wvw point of view where I duelled all specs so far **with only Spellbreaker** being the only spec I can't bring down. Using LB - s/w soulbeast with a dps/support pet combo and I am having a blast and what about zerg fights?...God Soulbeast is bloody amazing, never before on ranger I could do what I do with soulbeast.

 

What you guys are stating simply doesn't add up and I can't understand why; I don't want to go down like an elitist jerk but I have tried to get people to show me in game where they having difficulties because I don't experience any of the problems they're having.

 

Of course soulbeast like all other specs needs some polishing but so far overall **soulbeast is bloody amazing** no contest for me to what I use from now on, dunno maybe it's just a matter of personal taste

[Johnny.1634]

What anyone expected from a "petless" ranger is beyond me. Soulbeast was destined to fail, and I'm glad it did.

[jcbroe.4329]

> @Arheundel.6451 said:

> > @jcbroe.4329 said:

> > > @mistsim.2748 said:

> > > > @jcbroe.4329 said:

> > > > Sure, you're a glass cannon, okay. But every other class including glass core ranger and glass Druid outperform Soulbeast at that role.

> > >

> > > this is a misunderstanding on your part. the SB tree gives a +22% damage modifier, 4s of unblockable, and double swoop with the gazelle and GS. you cant get this kind of damage and mobility with core. i would argue that the glassbow SB is probably the best "glass" spec in the game right now.

> > >

> > > unfortunately, i lost a crapton of rank testing bad builds, but in low plat i've been able to annihilate every druid ive come across with the glassbow SB. i mean what are u gonna do against 10s of unblockable from 1500? if you approach me, i'll just double swoop out and reset.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> >

> > It's not a misunderstanding; it's the same conversation we've had since the game launched.

> >

> > **Ranger has never lacked the damage it needed to be competitive.**

> >

> > Before trait reworks, it was the survivability it needed to not be ganked. Before Druid, it was the team support and/or mobility it needed to be competitive with other high damage builds. With the most recent round of core changes, Ranger has the survivability for fighting and dealing with ganks as well as the mobility it needs to get from place to place, fight to fight, etc.

> >

> > What does Soulbeast offer? More group utility than core, less than Druid, and less survivability than both, and it comes at the cost of the damage trait that would even be the selling point for running Soulbeast, which means the only thing you do with Soulbeast is more damage, **which is the thing that Ranger was never lacking.**

> >

> > I've watched you post a few times now about your concepts of "manliness" or what you feel is cheap or cheese or not now btw, and I have to say while I'm happy you take pride in your gameplay, you're genuinely crippling your mindset which will eventually leave you with the inability to keep pace with top tier gameplay.

> >

> > There's this fantastic article that I can't for the life of me find from googling atm, but I wish I could link it for you. In summary (I apologize for my use of second person throughout this); assigning the concept of a cheap strategy based on some sense of honor cripples you and your ability to play competitively because you're forcing this idea of honorable gameplay to be the way you play so you'll never adopt a efficient/winning strategy if it doesn't exist within this concept of honorable gameplay you've created, even though technically you're the one who isn't playing the game it was intended to be played by not utilizing strategies made available to you. On top of that, you don't learn from your gameplay against better opponents or opponents using strategies you designate is cheap/dishonorable; you simply label them as such and dismiss them when instead you should learn them and incorporate them into your gameplay when possible if your true goal was just to be as competitive as possible.

> >

> > It's driving me crazy now that I can't find this article.

> >

> > P.S. not just in this thread; but you should probably stop assigning gender to how you hold respect for or intend disrespect to builds/concepts/etc. Depending on the person, it's incredibly offensive, and also misleading to imply gender has anything to do with competition, gameplay efficacy, or etc.

> >

> > Edit: found it: http://www.sirlin.net/articles/playing-to-win

>

> Regardless of what @"mistsim.2748" said in that contest, personally **I still fail to understand how people can objectively consider Soulbeast less survivable than druid..let alone core ranger**

>

> I am talking from a PvP/wvw point of view where I duelled all specs so far **with only Spellbreaker** being the only spec I can't bring down. Using LB - s/w soulbeast with a dps/support pet combo and I am having a blast and what about zerg fights?...God Soulbeast is bloody amazing, never before on ranger I could do what I do with soulbeast.

>

> What you guys are stating simply doesn't add up and I can't understand why; I don't want to go down like an elitist jerk but I have tried to get people to show me in game where they having difficulties because I don't experience any of the problems they're having.

>

> Of course soulbeast like all other specs needs some polishing but so far overall **soulbeast is bloody amazing** no contest for me to what I use from now on, dunno maybe it's just a matter of personal taste

 

I'd like to just point out that everything you just said was empty. You used descriptive language in lieu of evidence, vague anecdotes, repetition, and dismissiveness and essentially said and demonstrated nothing valuable other that the ability to create coherent sentences.

 

The literal opposite of being objective, as it were.

 

That being said, and I can mathematically prove it if necessary; Soulbeast has quantifiable less Healing, Team Support through Healing/Cleansing/Buffing, Stealth, Superspeed, and condition Cleansing than Druid (and breaks even with core Ranger on most of those, although ofc it utilizes core ranger options and synergy to achieve them so at that point, Soulbeast is considerably lacking, although that's a poor way to evaluate it since it's an extension of and not standalone class, making it considerably more difficult to accurately draw comparisons to core).

[Djuls.4586]

> @Arheundel.6451 said:

> Of course soulbeast like all other specs needs some polishing but so far overall soulbeast is bloody amazing no contest for me to what I use from now on, dunno maybe **it's just a matter of personal taste**

 

(Sorry for my bad english, it's late and i'm tiried, i hope your eyes won't bleed out ^^)

 

This = **it's just a matter of personal taste**

For me, it's just an upgrade, SB is litterally cranger #1.5

I use BM with my jacaranda to heal myself and... that's all.

The devs said:

- "play the profession that you've know and loved **in a new fashion**"

- "character progression means **having new options**"

That's why, right now, i'm disapointed with soulbeast.

 

For example: I don't like druid (just because i don't like the playstyle), BUT this spec feels very polished to me.

Druid spec litteraly changed the way to play your ranger.

And Soulbeast fails to do that.

You can merge with your pet : i can see the point in WwW, so why not ?

But for PvE (on my point of view), it's useless, except if you really dislike playing with pets, but in that case, why playing ranger in the first place ?

And for the stances, they just feels bad, except the bear stance for condi cleanse.

 

But i know this expac is just released, some improvements might come any time soon, so who knows ...

I'll stick with my ranger for now, because i do really love my Norn (so classy).

But, if no improvements in terms of gameplay (or flavour) came out, i really think i will switch to another character.

 

Just give us some little tweaks, like :

Another aura when you merged with a pet, not just a greenish thorn around you.

And for god sake, give us new animations for the F-skills !! They are pathetics honestly.

 

I stll love my ranger, but please give me somhing fresh to play with, not just a cranger #1.5 for 2 more years.

And obviously, i know it's too late for that.

 

I leave you know, i'm gonna cry a bit under my pillow :)

[shadowpass.4236]

> @Arheundel.6451 said:

> > @jcbroe.4329 said:

> > > @mistsim.2748 said:

> > > > @jcbroe.4329 said:

> > > > Sure, you're a glass cannon, okay. But every other class including glass core ranger and glass Druid outperform Soulbeast at that role.

> > >

> > > this is a misunderstanding on your part. the SB tree gives a +22% damage modifier, 4s of unblockable, and double swoop with the gazelle and GS. you cant get this kind of damage and mobility with core. i would argue that the glassbow SB is probably the best "glass" spec in the game right now.

> > >

> > > unfortunately, i lost a crapton of rank testing bad builds, but in low plat i've been able to annihilate every druid ive come across with the glassbow SB. i mean what are u gonna do against 10s of unblockable from 1500? if you approach me, i'll just double swoop out and reset.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> >

> > It's not a misunderstanding; it's the same conversation we've had since the game launched.

> >

> > **Ranger has never lacked the damage it needed to be competitive.**

> >

> > Before trait reworks, it was the survivability it needed to not be ganked. Before Druid, it was the team support and/or mobility it needed to be competitive with other high damage builds. With the most recent round of core changes, Ranger has the survivability for fighting and dealing with ganks as well as the mobility it needs to get from place to place, fight to fight, etc.

> >

> > What does Soulbeast offer? More group utility than core, less than Druid, and less survivability than both, and it comes at the cost of the damage trait that would even be the selling point for running Soulbeast, which means the only thing you do with Soulbeast is more damage, **which is the thing that Ranger was never lacking.**

> >

> > I've watched you post a few times now about your concepts of "manliness" or what you feel is cheap or cheese or not now btw, and I have to say while I'm happy you take pride in your gameplay, you're genuinely crippling your mindset which will eventually leave you with the inability to keep pace with top tier gameplay.

> >

> > There's this fantastic article that I can't for the life of me find from googling atm, but I wish I could link it for you. In summary (I apologize for my use of second person throughout this); assigning the concept of a cheap strategy based on some sense of honor cripples you and your ability to play competitively because you're forcing this idea of honorable gameplay to be the way you play so you'll never adopt a efficient/winning strategy if it doesn't exist within this concept of honorable gameplay you've created, even though technically you're the one who isn't playing the game it was intended to be played by not utilizing strategies made available to you. On top of that, you don't learn from your gameplay against better opponents or opponents using strategies you designate is cheap/dishonorable; you simply label them as such and dismiss them when instead you should learn them and incorporate them into your gameplay when possible if your true goal was just to be as competitive as possible.

> >

> > It's driving me crazy now that I can't find this article.

> >

> > P.S. not just in this thread; but you should probably stop assigning gender to how you hold respect for or intend disrespect to builds/concepts/etc. Depending on the person, it's incredibly offensive, and also misleading to imply gender has anything to do with competition, gameplay efficacy, or etc.

> >

> > Edit: found it: http://www.sirlin.net/articles/playing-to-win

>

> Regardless of what @"mistsim.2748" said in that contest, personally **I still fail to understand how people can objectively consider Soulbeast less survivable than druid..let alone core ranger**

>

> I am talking from a PvP/wvw point of view where I duelled all specs so far **with only Spellbreaker** being the only spec I can't bring down. Using LB - s/w soulbeast with a dps/support pet combo and I am having a blast and what about zerg fights?...God Soulbeast is bloody amazing, never before on ranger I could do what I do with soulbeast.

>

> What you guys are stating simply doesn't add up and I can't understand why; I don't want to go down like an elitist jerk but I have tried to get people to show me in game where they having difficulties because I don't experience any of the problems they're having.

>

> Of course soulbeast like all other specs needs some polishing but so far overall **soulbeast is bloody amazing** no contest for me to what I use from now on, dunno maybe it's just a matter of personal taste

 

I can beat any build on any class with core ranger. Does that make core ranger the strongest spec in the game? No.

 

Why? Because you aren't fighting against the builds and classes alone. You're fighting against the players using them. I can guarantee you that if you were to fight any player in the competitive scene on Soulbeast, you'd lose. Its incredibly difficult, even for me, to keep up with the pace of some of the new (and old) specs on Soulbeast.

 

With that said, I can do it, but its unnecessarily difficult. In other words, instead of fights feeling fair yet challenging... it feels like I am gimping myself hard by taking Soulbeast over literally _any other traitline._

[Shroud.2307]

I don't know what people are talking about. I murder everything in WvW with it.

 

I was always a Berserker/Assassin core Ranger prior to PoF and use the same gear now. Smokescale and Jacaranda provide plenty of damage and personal sustain if needed. It might not be quite as immortal in outnumbered fights as Druid but I don't think that makes it bad or weak. It's a lot more engaging than spamming staff 1, popping CA, stealthing, kiting and repeating, which anyone who's wearing something semi-tanky could do with their eyes closed.

 

I have no doubt that it could use improvements here or there, but as is, I think it's very powerful. So much so, I wouldn't be surprised if it receives a few nerfs. I'm killing people so fast with this thing they have no time to react. And even if they do, I've got plenty of ways to escape, heal or avoid damage. Jacaranda basically gives me 3 heals + a x2 condi clear and Smokescale gives me a lengthy evade/mobility. You can very easily drop it's F2, leap through it twice and stealth gank someone or escape as well, just like Druid.

 

20k Worldly Impacts and 20k+ Mauls are no joke. They've got cast times but Soulbeast is absolutely overflowing with CC so it's not like you don't have ways to lock someone down.

 

Also let's remember that ANet wanted specializations to be sidegrades and not upgrades. They want to give us different ways to play. It's better to have the _option_ to try something else when you feel like it rather than being pigeonholed in to something because it's so substantially better. But people will complain no matter what they get so, I'm not out to change anyones minds. Just trying to figure out why people think it sucks.

 

And on the note of overflowing with CC, there's something it has that core and Druid don't. A metric fart ton of CC. With the right pets and weapons you can CC something back to the stoneage.

[Shroud.2307]

> @Aomine.5012 said:

> To me entering Beast Mode becomes a form of utility for just using f2 / f3 / Sick em , as well as a form of reviving pet and stack boons.

> I unmerged whenever I am done with the above utility, there's no reason to camp it cuz you can't choose which bonus stat you get.

> I think this is actually the way Soulbeast is meant to be played, considering the bonus damage is so pathetic when merged,

>

> I'm using Jaracarda now, so Beastmode means I get a free cleanse and 2 bonus healing skill outside of my original healing source, which is quite nice.

> I also utilize Beastmode's F3 aoe pull for Whirling Defense hitting all the targets.

>

> To me Soulmeast is like a stronger Skirmishing now, since Skirmishing is a pure dps trait.

> Soulbeast has similar dps increase to Skirmishing, but this time grant you 3~4 more useful utilities to work on, that's about all.

>

> PS: I've been working around Soulbeast since launch so I think I know a fair share of it already.

 

Yes this is exactly how it's supposed to be used.

 

As far as I'm concerned, a lot of people just want it to be the "get rid of my pet forever" spec, which it's not. It's just a different way to combo with your pet and to gain new skills. You're not supposed to camp it, you're supposed to weave in and out, anticipating when you'll need which skills and intelligently manipulating your pets attacks or using the beast abilities to ensure your pets attacks succeed. One example is getting your Smokescale to knock a target down, melding with it, then using Smoke Assault while your target is eating dirt.

 

> @Hawken.7932 said:

> Can't agree less with the OP... for me, soulbeast has completely revitalized ranger. I'm so hyped about it! It took a day to really get the hang of it, but now I'm loving the new gameplay.

 

Agreed. It's all I've been playing since PoF release and although I've always played a lot of Ranger, I've been completely ignoring my other characters lately I've been playing it so much. I absolutely understand that not everyone is going to feel the same, but I think it's a shame to see that so many people are underwhelmed.

[Arheundel.6451]

> @shadowpass.4236 said:

> > @Arheundel.6451 said:

> > > @jcbroe.4329 said:

> > > > @mistsim.2748 said:

> > > > > @jcbroe.4329 said:

> > > > > Sure, you're a glass cannon, okay. But every other class including glass core ranger and glass Druid outperform Soulbeast at that role.

> > > >

> > > > this is a misunderstanding on your part. the SB tree gives a +22% damage modifier, 4s of unblockable, and double swoop with the gazelle and GS. you cant get this kind of damage and mobility with core. i would argue that the glassbow SB is probably the best "glass" spec in the game right now.

> > > >

> > > > unfortunately, i lost a crapton of rank testing bad builds, but in low plat i've been able to annihilate every druid ive come across with the glassbow SB. i mean what are u gonna do against 10s of unblockable from 1500? if you approach me, i'll just double swoop out and reset.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > It's not a misunderstanding; it's the same conversation we've had since the game launched.

> > >

> > > **Ranger has never lacked the damage it needed to be competitive.**

> > >

> > > Before trait reworks, it was the survivability it needed to not be ganked. Before Druid, it was the team support and/or mobility it needed to be competitive with other high damage builds. With the most recent round of core changes, Ranger has the survivability for fighting and dealing with ganks as well as the mobility it needs to get from place to place, fight to fight, etc.

> > >

> > > What does Soulbeast offer? More group utility than core, less than Druid, and less survivability than both, and it comes at the cost of the damage trait that would even be the selling point for running Soulbeast, which means the only thing you do with Soulbeast is more damage, **which is the thing that Ranger was never lacking.**

> > >

> > > I've watched you post a few times now about your concepts of "manliness" or what you feel is cheap or cheese or not now btw, and I have to say while I'm happy you take pride in your gameplay, you're genuinely crippling your mindset which will eventually leave you with the inability to keep pace with top tier gameplay.

> > >

> > > There's this fantastic article that I can't for the life of me find from googling atm, but I wish I could link it for you. In summary (I apologize for my use of second person throughout this); assigning the concept of a cheap strategy based on some sense of honor cripples you and your ability to play competitively because you're forcing this idea of honorable gameplay to be the way you play so you'll never adopt a efficient/winning strategy if it doesn't exist within this concept of honorable gameplay you've created, even though technically you're the one who isn't playing the game it was intended to be played by not utilizing strategies made available to you. On top of that, you don't learn from your gameplay against better opponents or opponents using strategies you designate is cheap/dishonorable; you simply label them as such and dismiss them when instead you should learn them and incorporate them into your gameplay when possible if your true goal was just to be as competitive as possible.

> > >

> > > It's driving me crazy now that I can't find this article.

> > >

> > > P.S. not just in this thread; but you should probably stop assigning gender to how you hold respect for or intend disrespect to builds/concepts/etc. Depending on the person, it's incredibly offensive, and also misleading to imply gender has anything to do with competition, gameplay efficacy, or etc.

> > >

> > > Edit: found it: http://www.sirlin.net/articles/playing-to-win

> >

> > Regardless of what @"mistsim.2748" said in that contest, personally **I still fail to understand how people can objectively consider Soulbeast less survivable than druid..let alone core ranger**

> >

> > I am talking from a PvP/wvw point of view where I duelled all specs so far **with only Spellbreaker** being the only spec I can't bring down. Using LB - s/w soulbeast with a dps/support pet combo and I am having a blast and what about zerg fights?...God Soulbeast is bloody amazing, never before on ranger I could do what I do with soulbeast.

> >

> > What you guys are stating simply doesn't add up and I can't understand why; I don't want to go down like an elitist jerk but I have tried to get people to show me in game where they having difficulties because I don't experience any of the problems they're having.

> >

> > Of course soulbeast like all other specs needs some polishing but so far overall **soulbeast is bloody amazing** no contest for me to what I use from now on, dunno maybe it's just a matter of personal taste

>

> I can beat any build on any class with core ranger. Does that make core ranger the strongest spec in the game? No.

>

> Why? Because you aren't fighting against the builds and classes alone. You're fighting against the players using them. I can guarantee you that if you were to fight any player in the competitive scene on Soulbeast, you'd lose. Its incredibly difficult, even for me, to keep up with the pace of some of the new (and old) specs on Soulbeast.

>

> With that said, I can do it, but its unnecessarily difficult. In other words, instead of fights feeling fair yet challenging... it feels like I am gimping myself hard by taking Soulbeast over literally _any other traitline._

 

The whole thread is based on personal experience so...

[BadSanta.6527]

soulbeast for me represent what is bad about the class :

a. soulbeast mechanism intend to satisfy all those whos not liked pet and in my point of view is if you dont like pet dont play ranger .... it is like i will say idont like adrenalin but iwant to play warrior , this is the class mechanism deal with it and it is sad that arenet went to this diraction

b. lack of power build - before pof condi ranger was good , and there is no reason for additional condi spec... while ranger power builds by far the lowst in game ...

this make me wonder did they play the class at all before making the soulbeast ?

did they asked them self what is supposed to do ? did the proudct achive is goal?

ihonstly think no soulbeast is great for new ranger or people who dont like pet but not for people who actully choose to main ranger becuse of pet ..

and lets dont talk about animations becsue in this area soulbeast aint worth to talk about

 

[OGDeadHead.8326]

> @jcbroe.4329 said:

> What does Soulbeast offer? More group utility than core, less than Druid, and **less survivability than both**

 

I run SB, WS and BM. Which traitline would improve my survivability if I were to replace Soulbeast and we compare to core ranger only, and the possible abilities that comes with Soulbeast?

The only one I could think of would be NM for Evasive Purity and Protective Ward. Are these traits better in this aspect compared to the possible skills you could access when merging with certain types of pets and the ability to have Natural Healing running when merged (like it once used to)?

 

I'm not saying it's one way or the other, just curious to hear about this a little more.

[jcbroe.4329]

> @OGDeadHead.8326 said:

> > @jcbroe.4329 said:

> > What does Soulbeast offer? More group utility than core, less than Druid, and **less survivability than both**

>

> I run SB, WS and BM. Which traitline would improve my survivability if I were to replace Soulbeast and we compare to core ranger only, and the possible abilities that comes with Soulbeast?

> The only one I could think of would be NM for Evasive Purity and Protective Ward. Are these traits better in this aspect compared to the possible skills you could access when merging with certain types of pets and the ability to have Natural Healing running when merged (like it once used to)?

>

> I'm not saying it's one way or the other, just curious to hear about this a little more.

 

Of course!

 

So you basically already did NM yourself. A few little extra things, like a minor that provides regen and another that provides expertise (which even if it is slightly, extends the duration of Protection from your WS empowered dodges and Protective Ward). Vigor on pet swap, if you choose that route, is also nothing to scoff at, in tandem with WS especially.

 

Marksmanship you have a passive Signet of Stone and can reduce the cooldown of your signets. It might seem to lack combat significance, especially because it doesn't do anything special, but being able to use SoR and SoS potentially more than once in a fight could easily win that fight for you, and/or you'll be more apt to have the skills when you need them when you're moving quickly from fight to fight.

 

Skirmishing is the least defensive of the traitlines, but also adds the most functional/unique form of defense in the ability to basically get 2 uses out of a skill per weapon swap that you might have only had 1 otherwise. 2 swoops/gs blocks, 2 lb stealths/kbs, 2 sword or dagger dodges, etc etc point has been made lol. Besides that you get some Vigor and in combat swiftness, and with the Vigor already being talked about above all that's left is to say while swiftness might not seem like it's the most important aspect, it will help with kiting damage.

 

Now just for fun, my personal preference assuming WS and BM; MM for comboing with Remorseless on a damage build (I'd probably go all out with Moment of Clarity at that point but traited signets are a more generalist option that also trigger Remorseless traited so I'd swap so constantly between them that it would drive a person crazy). On a more conservative build, NM would be my go to because it's synergy and defensive offerings are good and pair well with the traits already selected.

[psizone.8437]

> @Arheundel.6451 said:

 

 

> Regardless of what @"mistsim.2748" said in that contest, personally **I still fail to understand how people can objectively consider Soulbeast less survivable than druid..let alone core ranger**

 

 

Druid has an extra on demand condition removal without losing a heal/utility slot, staff is a great escape weapon with good defensive utility, the celestial form had a decent heal and you could take a trait to gain an extra stealth.

 

Soulbeast defensive abilities (mostly in merged skills) have long cast times which are easily interrupted, especially in WvW/sPvP. It only has two defensive traits, one being a conditional condition damage reduction, whilst the other is a conditional get out of death free card.

 

As for core Ranger being more defensive, there's a fair argument for it. Taking Soulbeast means taking two core traitlines instead of three, some of those lines have quite a few defensive traits. (Nature Magic, Wilderness Survival, Marksmanship and to a lesser extent Beastmastery all have at least one decent defensive trait).

 

If they reduce the cast time of Beastmode skills and make some of the "oh shit" skills instant then Soulbeast would without a doubt be nearly on par with Druid in terms of survivability, but right now it's nowhere near.

[Unholy Pillager.3791]

> @Johnny.1634 said:

> What anyone expected from a "petless" ranger is beyond me. Soulbeast was destined to fail, and I'm glad it did.

 

Maybe we just want our GW1 Ranger back. Warrior and Guardian are both poor substitutes.

[Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582]

> @"Unholy Pillager.3791" said:

> > @Johnny.1634 said:

> > What anyone expected from a "petless" ranger is beyond me. Soulbeast was destined to fail, and I'm glad it did.

>

> Maybe we just want our GW1 Ranger back. Warrior and Guardian are both poor substitutes.

 

Well, they already gave all our best skill types and attacks to other professions, so we were left with the most unique mechanic. The pet. I always *wanted* to play with a pet in GW1 but you know, only 8 skills makes that hard at times. Was so glad that pet was the mechanic in GW2. It needs a lot of improvement though,

[Unholy Pillager.3791]

> @"Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582" said:

> > @"Unholy Pillager.3791" said:

> > > @Johnny.1634 said:

> > > What anyone expected from a "petless" ranger is beyond me. Soulbeast was destined to fail, and I'm glad it did.

> >

> > Maybe we just want our GW1 Ranger back. Warrior and Guardian are both poor substitutes.

>

> Well, they already gave all our best skill types and attacks to other professions, so we were left with the most unique mechanic. The pet. I always *wanted* to play with a pet in GW1 but you know, only 8 skills makes that hard at times. Was so glad that pet was the mechanic in GW2. It needs a lot of improvement though,

 

The problem is that pets work poorly with the combat system in GW2. It's based on active defense and attacking while moving, and pets do neither. Hell, the only reason the fire wyvern was ever considered competitive is because unlike most pets, it has an auto attack that can actually hit moving targets. That shouldn't be a plus, that should be a bare minimum requirement for acceptability, and it currently isn't even being addressed. They just blindly balance Ranger around the assumption that pets will always do their theoretical maximum damage, which is a braindead assumption. So what we need is either a real fix for pets, from the ground up, or a viable way to play Ranger without them. A properly executed Soulbeast would be the latter, which is badly needed because they appear to be unwilling or unable to do the former.

 

Now, just so we're open and honest here, I'm coming at this from a heavily sPvP perspective. Pets may well be fine for raids; I wouldn't know. What I do know, from the comments on here, is that they're terrible in WvW, just as I know from personal experience that they're very limiting in sPvP. I'm happy that I _finally_ have control over important pet skills like the smokescale's knockdown; previously, the success or failure of my hard cc was all too often a matter of RNG rather than skill.

[Billy.1879]

Yeah i've never felt so powerful on a ranger. Love the elite

[Substance E.4852]

> @"Unholy Pillager.3791" said:

> > @"Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582" said:

> > > @"Unholy Pillager.3791" said:

> > > > @Johnny.1634 said:

> > > > What anyone expected from a "petless" ranger is beyond me. Soulbeast was destined to fail, and I'm glad it did.

> > >

> > > Maybe we just want our GW1 Ranger back. Warrior and Guardian are both poor substitutes.

> >

> > Well, they already gave all our best skill types and attacks to other professions, so we were left with the most unique mechanic. The pet. I always *wanted* to play with a pet in GW1 but you know, only 8 skills makes that hard at times. Was so glad that pet was the mechanic in GW2. It needs a lot of improvement though,

>

> The problem is that pets work poorly with the combat system in GW2. It's based on active defense and attacking while moving, and pets do neither. Hell, the only reason the fire wyvern was ever considered competitive is because unlike most pets, it has an auto attack that can actually hit moving targets. That shouldn't be a plus, that should be a bare minimum requirement for acceptability, and it currently isn't even being addressed. They just blindly balance Ranger around the assumption that pets will always do their theoretical maximum damage, which is a braindead assumption. So what we need is either a real fix for pets, from the ground up, or a viable way to play Ranger without them. A properly executed Soulbeast would be the latter, which is badly needed because they appear to be unwilling or unable to do the former.

>

> Now, just so we're open and honest here, I'm coming at this from a heavily sPvP perspective. Pets may well be fine for raids; I wouldn't know. What I do know, from the comments on here, is that they're terrible in WvW, just as I know from personal experience that they're very limiting in sPvP. I'm happy that I _finally_ have control over important pet skills like the smokescale's knockdown; previously, the success or failure of my hard cc was all too often a matter of RNG rather than skill.

 

Pet's are basically completely redundant in raids. AoE 'immunity' means they rarely die in pve and offer absolutely no real tactical advantage. It's just an AI that follows you around and borrows some of your dps for the luxury.

 

In terms of WvW, they are completely useless in squad fights. They are actually pretty solid if you do roaming but only when fighting in a large flat area like the southern part of alpine or most of EBG. They are very poor at dealing with mobile foes in uneven terrain due to pathing issues.