Flag DPS-Meter user in the game

[joneirikb.7506]

Sounds like one solution, would be to have a "self flag" mechanic. So those that wants can flag themselves. Example "Relaxed" "Speedrun" etc. This sounds to be a way that could give most what they want, without forcing anything on others. Those that doesn't care could just not flag themselves and be grouped with either.

 

The basic difference is that you're not flagging others, it would be a personal "opt in" system, that lets you flag yourself in order to help grouping. On the whole it would still split users from each others to some extent, but that seems to be what people want in this case.

[Astralporing.1957]

> @"Dayra.7405" said:

> > @"BlaqueFyre.5678" said:

> > Combat Meters just compile everything into a easier to read visual aid, nothing more nothing less.

>

> You can see actions of people on the street, still it's a totally different thing to record them and especially to evaluate them to generate profiles of people.

DPS meters don't work on "people on the street" (so, anyone _not_ in your group/squad).

 

> @"Dayra.7405" said:

> The Law goes even further (http://www.privacy-regulation.eu/en/r26.htm):

> >! (26) The principles of data protection should apply to any information concerning an identified or identifiable natural person.

> >!Personal data which have undergone pseudonymisation, which could be attributed to a natural person by the use of additional information should be considered to be information on an identifiable natural person.

> >! To determine whether a natural person is identifiable, account should be taken of all the means reasonably likely to be used, such as singling out, either by the controller or by another person to identify the natural person directly or indirectly.

> >! To ascertain whether means are reasonably likely to be used to identify the natural person, account should be taken of all objective factors, such as the costs of and the amount of time required for identification, taking into consideration the available technology at the time of the processing and technological developments.

> >! The principles of data protection should therefore not apply to anonymous information, namely information which does not relate to an identified or identifiable natural person or to personal data rendered anonymous in such a manner that the data subject is not or no longer identifiable.

> >! This Regulation does not therefore concern the processing of such anonymous information, including for statistical or research purposes.

>

> It does NOT matter if YOU can identify me in real-world from Dayra.7405, it is sufficient that Dayra.7405 can identify me in principle e.g. by hacking ANet's database.

> As such Dayra.7405. is PII and information related to PII is personal information.

> And it is that even on it's own, as you can direct actions against me in game, and a person is playing a char in GW2. not a bot (hopefully :) ).

Your account name and dps values are not enough to identify you in real world. Anet does indeed have more info on you (email, IP etc), and with those it turns into personal data, but, fortunately for you, Anet is prevented from profiling you using the data they have. And, again fortunately for you, users do not have access to this data, and thus cannot profile you at all, even when using dps meters.

 

By the way, you are aware, of course, that other players can completelly legally use not only dps meters, but also capture software to record your whole behaviour as long as you are in their field of vision? And that they can stream that recording online or post it on Youtube later? I wonder why you are concerned about DPS meters, but not about that.

 

 

[Dayra.7405]

> @"joneirikb.7506" said:

> Sounds like one solution, would be to have a "self flag" mechanic. So those that wants can flag themselves. Example "Relaxed" "Speedrun" etc. This sounds to be a way that could give most what they want, without forcing anything on others. Those that doesn't care could just not flag themselves and be grouped with either.

>

> The basic difference is that you're not flagging others, it would be a personal "opt in" system, that lets you flag yourself in order to help grouping. On the whole it would still split users from each others to some extent, but that seems to be what people want in this case.

 

That means: ANet would make an option in the setting:

- transmit all combat data and flag me

- transmit only my combat data and do not flag me.

 

Yeah, you can wear google-glasses unnoticed, but you notice your surroundings when you are recording. Sounds great. Maybe a 1min delay during which you are already flagged but not transmitting data, such that you cannot shortly spy in the hope to be unnoticed.

[joneirikb.7506]

> @"Dayra.7405" said:

> > @"joneirikb.7506" said:

> > Sounds like one solution, would be to have a "self flag" mechanic. So those that wants can flag themselves. Example "Relaxed" "Speedrun" etc. This sounds to be a way that could give most what they want, without forcing anything on others. Those that doesn't care could just not flag themselves and be grouped with either.

> >

> > The basic difference is that you're not flagging others, it would be a personal "opt in" system, that lets you flag yourself in order to help grouping. On the whole it would still split users from each others to some extent, but that seems to be what people want in this case.

>

> That means: ANet would make an option in the setting:

> - transmit all combat data and flag me

> - transmit only my combat data and do not flag me.

>

> Yeah, you can wear google-glasses unnoticed, but you notice your surroundings when you are recording. Sounds great. Maybe a cool down such that you cannot shortly spy in the hope to be unnoticed.

 

I'm not talking about a toggle for combat data at all, that isn't even in the discussion.

 

I'm only talking about a Flag for LFG and other areas, to make it easier to find people with similar mindset/preferences to play with in instanced content.

 

If you where able to tag yourself with "Relaxed" or something similar, you're likely to be grouped with other players that tag the same, or players without a tag (thus nothing against either). And not being grouped with anyone that has selected "Speedrun" or similar tag. Since most of the users that care about DPS checkers, efficiency etc would all be tagging up as "speedrun" or similar in an equal desire to be grouped with other players with the same mindset.

[Dayra.7405]

> @"joneirikb.7506" said:

> I'm not talking about a toggle for combat data at all, that isn't even in the discussion.

> I'm only talking about a Flag for LFG and other areas, to make it easier to find people with similar mindset/preferences to play with in instanced content.

 

Why? Then you can still secretly spy other, and we do not have a solution.

[Imperadordf.2687]

> @"Dayra.7405" said:

> > @"joneirikb.7506" said:

> > I'm not talking about a toggle for combat data at all, that isn't even in the discussion.

> > I'm only talking about a Flag for LFG and other areas, to make it easier to find people with similar mindset/preferences to play with in instanced content.

>

> Why? Then you can still secretly spy other, and we do not have a solution.

 

Oh my god.

[joneirikb.7506]

> @"Dayra.7405" said:

> > @"joneirikb.7506" said:

> > I'm only talking about a Flag for LFG and other areas, to make it easier to find people with similar mindset/preferences to play with in instanced content.

>

> Why? Then you can still secretly spy other.

 

Since the rest of the thread so far haven't convinced you of why it isn't spying, I'm not even going to bother trying.

 

I'm responding to the part where you want to FLAG users of 3rd party programs, as your suggestion would only cause even more alienating (of both DPS users, and people like yourself that doesn't use DPS programs).

 

As such I suggested a way that flagging can be used, with hopefully less alienating.

[maddoctor.2738]

> @"Dayra.7405" said:

> > @"joneirikb.7506" said:

> > I'm not talking about a toggle for combat data at all, that isn't even in the discussion.

> > I'm only talking about a Flag for LFG and other areas, to make it easier to find people with similar mindset/preferences to play with in instanced content.

>

> Why? Then you can still secretly spy other, and we do not have a solution.

 

How can they spy on you? If you know how to read proper English and join only the appropriate groups for you then nobody can spy on you.

[Dayra.7405]

> @"maddoctor.2738" said:

> > @"Dayra.7405" said:

> > > @"joneirikb.7506" said:

> > > I'm not talking about a toggle for combat data at all, that isn't even in the discussion.

> > > I'm only talking about a Flag for LFG and other areas, to make it easier to find people with similar mindset/preferences to play with in instanced content.

> >

> > Why? Then you can still secretly spy other, and we do not have a solution.

>

> How can they spy on you? If you know how to read proper English and join only the appropriate groups for you then nobody can spy on you.

 

It's very simple: Why would you insist on a decoupling of the possibility to spy from the flag? If you would do what you describe it would not make a difference. It only makes a difference if you want to watch other peoples DPs without being noticed.

[maddoctor.2738]

> @"Dayra.7405" said:

> It's very simple: Why would you insist on a decoupling of the possibility to spy from the flag? If you would do what you describe it would not make a difference. It only makes a difference if you want to watch other peoples DPs without being noticed.

 

You didn't really answer the question though. And I repeat how can they spy on you if you only join groups appropriate for you? It's just a matter of reading comprehension and/or some basic writing skills when making the LFG listing.

[Dayra.7405]

> @"maddoctor.2738" said:

> And I repeat how can they spy on you if you only join groups appropriate for you?

Because the can use DPS-Meter on anyone without flagging, if it is not coupled.

And the next step: Obviously you want to keep that possibility. Why? The only reason I see is: you want the possibility to spy secretly.

[maddoctor.2738]

> @"Dayra.7405" said:

> Because the can use DPS-Meter on anyone without flagging, if it is not coupled.

 

If you join the "relaxed/casual run/story run" groups or whatever other word is used on those runs, you won't have to deal with dps meters in the first place. Again, it's simple reading comprehension that is needed.

 

But, to see how ridiculous your idea even is, suppose that a player is indeed flagged for using a dps meter, will they stay flagged forever? If you have any knowledge of coding or read how the identification of third party software users happened, you'd know that they used a modified executable to do so. An executable that was suspected of bringing quite a lot of performance loss. So in order to flag people when they use a meter, every player in the game will have a much degraded performance. Moreover, even if that wasn't issue (it is a HUGE ISSUE) if a player is flagged for using a dps meter, what prevents them from joining a group and activating the dps meter afterwards?

 

The entire idea of flagging others for usage of dps meters is impractical, brings a performance loss for everyone, has multiple loopholes, can be easily abused and in the end it's completely pointless. All because you don't want to read.

[Dayra.7405]

I can repeat my concern for you:

> @"Dayra.7405" said:

> I stayed away from this DPS-Meter debate as long as it only concerned High-Level Fractals and PvE-Raids.

>

> But last sunday I was in a 50-people WvW squad judging the DPS made by several people.

> I can easily play WvW without being in that squad. I can even run with that commander without being in his squad.

> So yes, I want to see who is using DPS-meter.

 

I have my dungeon titles, I did and do all fractals I want, I have 0 interest in doing raids.

I want to make a separate squad in WvW, if the public commander squad uses DPS-Meter.

At least so far I've never seen WvW-squads in the LFG, so it's not a matter of reading.

 

And I still think

@"Dayra.7405" said:

> That means: ANet would make an option in the setting that everyone can switch an any time:

> - transmit all combat data (in 2 min) and flag me (now)

> - transmit only my combat data and do not flag me.

is a quite perfect solution for that situation.

- Everyone that want to measure only it's own DPS can do so unmarked.

- There is no process monitor running anywhere.

- You even have the possibility to see other peoples DPS, but to do so you have to flag yourself.

 

[AliamRationem.5172]

> @"Dayra.7405" said:

> > @"SunTzu.4513" said:

> > > I use a DPS meter, but I spend the vast majority of my time soloing open world legendaries and champions. When I'm not doing that, I can usually be found helping other players with HPs, storyline, etc., running HP trains, bounty squads - none of the things you associate with elitist DPS meter users.

> >

> > So much this.

>

> So for you the perfect solution would be that the DPS-Meter can only read your combat-infos's not that of all people in the whole group/squad. That would be a perfect solution for me as well ;)

 

If we only consider this outcome, then yes, it is a perfect solution. As long as it allowed an opt-in, everybody is happy. However, as with your initial suggestion, I expect it would simply give players another tool for being toxic to one another. Currently, both groups likely interact on a regular basis without issue the vast majority of the time. The other issue is that, in order for this to be feasible, ANet would probably have to develop their own damage meter.

 

Honestly, I can't say which would be worse. Would we be better off if players segregated themselves in this way? Would that result in less friction between casual and hardcore? Or would it simply make the grievances we already have that much more noticeable? I can't deny that, as a mostly solo player, having a built-in, feature-rich damage meter is very attractive and, if it were only me, this absolutely would be the best solution. I'm just not sure it's going to improve the situation for everyone else!

 

 

[BolkovonHarnfeldt.1372]

After thinking long and hard about your concerns, I feel that they should not be easily dismissed, but think we should go even further:

I also want flags for people who use a setting higher than lowest for character model quality (I don't want other people to spy on what armor I'm wearing, what armor I'm wearing tells a lot about what person I am IRL), a flag for using a setting higher than lowest for character model limit (I want to be able to hide from their sight by keeping away far enough), a flag for using "display nameplates of other players", because I don't want other people to see my char name (that's personal information), and please hide the class info, mastery level and what buffs and conditions are active - whether or not I've got might stacks on me is nobody else's concern. Thank you ANet in advance for listening.

 

 

[Laila Lightness.8742]

> @"Dayra.7405" said:

> I can repeat my concern for you:

> > @"Dayra.7405" said:

> > I stayed away from this DPS-Meter debate as long as it only concerned High-Level Fractals and PvE-Raids.

> >

> > But last sunday I was in a 50-people WvW squad judging the DPS made by several people.

> > I can easily play WvW without being in that squad. I can even run with that commander without being in his squad.

> > So yes, I want to see who is using DPS-meter.

>

> I have my dungeon titles, I did and do all fractals I want, I have 0 interest in doing raids.

> I want to make a separate squad in WvW, if the public commander squad uses DPS-Meter.

> At least so far I've never seen WvW-squads in the LFG, so it's not a matter of reading.

 

I got better solution remove arc dps.partying since you know they could be spying on your chat always stay offline mode block all you see since you dont know those people

[evilsofa.7296]

Dayra, you better start monitoring Twitch in case someone is secretly video-recording everything you do and publishing it to the Internet.

 

(Linking to the page doesn't seem to work right for me, Google for "Twitch Guild Wars 2")

 

Will you be wanting a flag for that too?

[maddoctor.2738]

> @"Dayra.7405" said:

> I can repeat my concern for you:

 

First, I've never seen anyone monitoring dps in WVW and even if some do they are probably trolling or wanted to signal out certain professions (like lots of WVW commanders hate rangers/druids/soulbeasts). Demanding a certain amount of dps in WVW is pointless.

Second, even if there was such a flag (which is impossible due to many reasons I already outlined) how exactly would it help you?

 

Also your "perfect" solution doesn't work and I think that was also already explained.

[Dayra.7405]

> @"maddoctor.2738" said:

> Also your "perfect" solution doesn't work and I think that was also already explained.

 

If you aren’t satisfied with:

„The server only transmits „someone hits target with x dam (no skill name)“ or even groups total damage instead individual damage to the targets.“ please cite that explanation. I see that this can be tricked in a 2 maybe 3 person party, but that’s not the kind of party I am concerned with.

[evilsofa.7296]

Dayra, you better start monitoring Youtube in case someone has ever recorded you while playing and published it for all the Internet to see.

 

Will you be wanting a flag for that too?

[Linken.6345]

> @"Dayra.7405" said:

> > @"maddoctor.2738" said:

> > Also your "perfect" solution doesn't work and I think that was also already explained.

>

> If you aren’t satisfied with:

> „The server only transmits „someone hits target with x dam (no skill name)“ or even groups total damage instead individual damage to the targets.“ please cite that explanation. I see that this can be tricked in a 2 maybe 3 person party, but that’s not the kind of party I am concerned with.

 

Easy dont join any wvw squads you can follow that commander anyway.

[StonePower.8321]

> @"Dayra.7405" said:

> > I stayed away from this DPS-Meter debate as long as it only concerned High-Level Fractals and PvE-Raids.

> >

> > But last sunday I was in a 50-people WvW squad judging the DPS made by several people.

> > I can easily play WvW without being in that squad. I can even run with that commander without being in his squad.

> > So yes, I want to see who is using DPS-meter.

 

If dps classes like weaver, scourge, etc., are doing 1/5th of the expected dmg I don't the problem in calling them out, to encourage them to play better.

No reason to "flag" dps meter users because you can't handle criticism.

[maddoctor.2738]

> @"StonePower.8321" said:

> > @"Dayra.7405" said:

> > > I stayed away from this DPS-Meter debate as long as it only concerned High-Level Fractals and PvE-Raids.

> > >

> > > But last sunday I was in a 50-people WvW squad judging the DPS made by several people.

> > > I can easily play WvW without being in that squad. I can even run with that commander without being in his squad.

> > > So yes, I want to see who is using DPS-meter.

>

> If dps classes like weaver, scourge, etc., are doing 1/5th of the expected dmg I don't the problem in calling them out, to encourage them to play better.

> No reason to "flag" dps meter users because you can't handle criticism.

 

The thing is they are talking about WVW where the dps you are doing in a squad of 50 people is not the best metric anyway, especially if it's a random/pug commander!

[SlippyCheeze.5483]

> @"Dayra.7405" said:

> > @"nia.4725" said:

> > > @"Dayra.7405" said:

> > > I wanted to point you to a third possibility: ANet may come to the conclusion that it is to difficult to justify the publishing of this data to continue doing so.

> >

> > The data is not being published anywhere. No one but the ones you play with can see the information arcDPS collects.

>

> That's why this debate started with the google-glass-recording flag. I want see to whom my data are send.

 

Oh! Well, that is super easy: your "data are send" to every character you can see in the game, all the time. In fact, the reason you can see them is because **their data** is being sent to you!

 

If this is a concern to you, you absolutely should not play any online game - as they necessarily require that data about all characters actions is shared with all other characters.

[Alehin.3746]

>muh privacy

Just have "chill run" or "non meta" in the tittle, "DPS meter people" wont join you.