BlaqueFyre.5678 Posted May 10, 2018 Share Posted May 10, 2018 > @"Shadowcat.2680" said: > > @"MUDse.7623" said: > > > @"Shadowcat.2680" said: > > > > @"MUDse.7623" said: > > > > > @"Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"MUDse.7623" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"BlaqueFyre.5678" said: > > > > > > > > > > > and it isn’t even spammable since it requires the build up of Malice which only happens from using Initiative skills on opponents and it drains all Malice when it strikes opponents, and it’s not even the highest hitting Unblockable skill as you claim. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > carefull someone will come and tell you how OP MI is to build up for a DJ as it doesnt require attacking and you dont lose malice if you dont successfully hit ;). preperation for the fight = 2 min and then lets go. > > > > > > > > > > and because it is sooo strong many will do that, just like all the 100s of DEs going for MBackstab without leaving stealth before the hit! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Shadowcat.2680" said: > > > > > > > > > > > As to soulbeast, longbow doesn't pierce innately. If you're seeing piercing shots from a longbow, it's a ranger with longbow traited through Marksmanship. There's also nothing innately unblockable on longbow. Soulbeast does have a lot of unblockable uptime through Unstoppable Union, Signet of the Hunt, and Call of the Wild (the warhorn skill), and you're welcome to go post about that uptime in the ranger forum. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ok so the problem is the unblockable attached to DJ.. i would love to give that up for a trait making us unblockable during reveal to give us even more reason to play in and out of stealth style ( maybe instead of MI, because that trait is soooo strong). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > if you were trying to reflect/block DJ, that was already stupid before the patch as the DE can use basi venom for that one skill. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I already made the point that a deadeye should have to use basi to have an unblockable Death's Judgment. A deadeye running basi is one who's sacrificed the ability to remove reveal for that unblockable. Trade-offs through traits or through utilities/elites are not the issue here. Death's Judgment being given as a free unblockable is. > > > > > > > > > > @"Turk.5460" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Shadowcat.2680" said: > > > > > > > > > > > Death's Judgment does require malice for its bigger hits, and I've no issues with its damage. It doesn't need to be unblockable. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes. Yes it does. You clearly have no idea what you're talking about - at this point you're just whining because you got a big boo-boo. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > A Death's Judgement with no Malice from a Thief in Marauder's gear will crit for 6k-8k. > > > > > > > > > This thread has nothing to with my personal ability or inability to counter rifle deadeyes. The point is that much of the counterplay has been removed simply by Death's Judgment being an innate unblockable. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And what's wrong with dodging or breaking line of sight. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From the deadeye perspective: what's wrong with having to be aware of when an opponent is blocking/reflecting? Death's Judgment, like any skill with a cast time, can be cancelled before completion. No malice is lost when it's cancelled and deadeye can remove the self-reveal from the skill if running Shadow Meld. > > > > > > > > > > > > because the bullet is really fast and shadow meld has only 5 second cooldown i guess? > > > > > > > > > > 45 for a charge to come back. 5 to use a charge. > > > > > > > > ty, i do know that but he made it sound like i will hit most of the time and if once in a year i maybe wont hit my super OP beam of doom, then i am safe because i can use elite wich is soo fast, it wont ever be interrupted wich puts it on longer cd then the remaining reveal :D > > > > > > > > i simply dont understand how he can complain about DJ now with a stealth requirement. if you want to oneshot now you will use backstab , better damage and more reliable to hit, no reveal on fail. DJ is now more part of an active playstyle were you shortly go into stealth when m7 procs to try a burst or rather force an evade to hit more TRB after. if you just go shortly in stealth and attack with rifle in between, you got enough TRB/spotters to reflect already and can use that dodge for DJ. > > > > i mean he made a post because perfectionist stacking to 25 might before a backstab was soo op before patch - now MBackstab hits way more damage without any might but no thread about it. > > > Trait manipulation to get a second proc of Perfectionist is no longer possible since Perfectionist got rolled into M7. > > > > > > I'm sure MBackstab will be a worse offender for one-shots. Feel free to start or contribute to a thread about it. > > > > ok so something being strong or not is not the reason for you to start a topic. > > then i guess you are actually fine with DJ, just dont feel like there was a trade off for the unblockable fact. > > well needing stealth imo is the trade off for unblockable and consuming malice the trade off for no ini. > > > > sure atleast in WvW still alot of people try to reflect/block but i think that is just habit as they got used to this for a while and they will drop this behaviour soon. because people being able to block/reflect on reaction can easily dodge it and keep the other stuff for the malice build up shots. reflecting those is more important as no hits => no malice = no beam of doom. > > I typically start a thread when I think something is an oversight on Anet's part. This was the case with Death's Judgment previously being able to benefit from the old malice regardless of what the deadeye had marked. It used to be possible to mark one target, build malice against it, and then get Death's Judgment's damage bonus against another, unmarked target. > > I think the unblockable on Death's Judgment as a Stealth Attack is an oversight since the previous Stealth Attack was unblockable and deadeye did not previously have an innately unblockable attack this strong. I could be wrong. It's entirely possible an Anet dev looked at Death's Judgment and thought the unblockable addition to be perfectly balanced. Wouldn't surprise me any as it seems like most of the players consider the deadeye rework to be inherently flawed in one fashion or another (hence the numerous threads on it in addition to Anet's own thread). > > I don't personally find stealth to be enough of a trade-off for the unblockable. Not when a deadeye has much more access to stealth than other professions have to evading/dodging, the only reliable ways to avoid the shot now without burning an invuln. LOS tends to be situational. Useful but the stealthed opponent typically has the upper hand when it comes to positioning. At your last point o in the patch notes they specifically stated that they made DJ Unblockable, which means they fully intended it to be so. Patch notes am I right?#rc >Death's Judgment: This attack's initiative cost has been removed, and it has moved to become the stealth attack for rifles. *It is now unblockable and consumes all malice when the thief strikes their marked target*. Reduced the casting time by about 0.25 seconds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadowcat.2680 Posted May 10, 2018 Author Share Posted May 10, 2018 > @"BlaqueFyre.5678" said: > > @"Shadowcat.2680" said: > > > @"MUDse.7623" said: > > > > @"Shadowcat.2680" said: > > > > > @"MUDse.7623" said: > > > > > > @"Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"MUDse.7623" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"BlaqueFyre.5678" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > and it isn’t even spammable since it requires the build up of Malice which only happens from using Initiative skills on opponents and it drains all Malice when it strikes opponents, and it’s not even the highest hitting Unblockable skill as you claim. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > carefull someone will come and tell you how OP MI is to build up for a DJ as it doesnt require attacking and you dont lose malice if you dont successfully hit ;). preperation for the fight = 2 min and then lets go. > > > > > > > > > > > and because it is sooo strong many will do that, just like all the 100s of DEs going for MBackstab without leaving stealth before the hit! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Shadowcat.2680" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > As to soulbeast, longbow doesn't pierce innately. If you're seeing piercing shots from a longbow, it's a ranger with longbow traited through Marksmanship. There's also nothing innately unblockable on longbow. Soulbeast does have a lot of unblockable uptime through Unstoppable Union, Signet of the Hunt, and Call of the Wild (the warhorn skill), and you're welcome to go post about that uptime in the ranger forum. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ok so the problem is the unblockable attached to DJ.. i would love to give that up for a trait making us unblockable during reveal to give us even more reason to play in and out of stealth style ( maybe instead of MI, because that trait is soooo strong). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > if you were trying to reflect/block DJ, that was already stupid before the patch as the DE can use basi venom for that one skill. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I already made the point that a deadeye should have to use basi to have an unblockable Death's Judgment. A deadeye running basi is one who's sacrificed the ability to remove reveal for that unblockable. Trade-offs through traits or through utilities/elites are not the issue here. Death's Judgment being given as a free unblockable is. > > > > > > > > > > > @"Turk.5460" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Shadowcat.2680" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > Death's Judgment does require malice for its bigger hits, and I've no issues with its damage. It doesn't need to be unblockable. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes. Yes it does. You clearly have no idea what you're talking about - at this point you're just whining because you got a big boo-boo. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > A Death's Judgement with no Malice from a Thief in Marauder's gear will crit for 6k-8k. > > > > > > > > > > This thread has nothing to with my personal ability or inability to counter rifle deadeyes. The point is that much of the counterplay has been removed simply by Death's Judgment being an innate unblockable. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And what's wrong with dodging or breaking line of sight. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From the deadeye perspective: what's wrong with having to be aware of when an opponent is blocking/reflecting? Death's Judgment, like any skill with a cast time, can be cancelled before completion. No malice is lost when it's cancelled and deadeye can remove the self-reveal from the skill if running Shadow Meld. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > because the bullet is really fast and shadow meld has only 5 second cooldown i guess? > > > > > > > > > > > > 45 for a charge to come back. 5 to use a charge. > > > > > > > > > > ty, i do know that but he made it sound like i will hit most of the time and if once in a year i maybe wont hit my super OP beam of doom, then i am safe because i can use elite wich is soo fast, it wont ever be interrupted wich puts it on longer cd then the remaining reveal :D > > > > > > > > > > i simply dont understand how he can complain about DJ now with a stealth requirement. if you want to oneshot now you will use backstab , better damage and more reliable to hit, no reveal on fail. DJ is now more part of an active playstyle were you shortly go into stealth when m7 procs to try a burst or rather force an evade to hit more TRB after. if you just go shortly in stealth and attack with rifle in between, you got enough TRB/spotters to reflect already and can use that dodge for DJ. > > > > > i mean he made a post because perfectionist stacking to 25 might before a backstab was soo op before patch - now MBackstab hits way more damage without any might but no thread about it. > > > > Trait manipulation to get a second proc of Perfectionist is no longer possible since Perfectionist got rolled into M7. > > > > > > > > I'm sure MBackstab will be a worse offender for one-shots. Feel free to start or contribute to a thread about it. > > > > > > ok so something being strong or not is not the reason for you to start a topic. > > > then i guess you are actually fine with DJ, just dont feel like there was a trade off for the unblockable fact. > > > well needing stealth imo is the trade off for unblockable and consuming malice the trade off for no ini. > > > > > > sure atleast in WvW still alot of people try to reflect/block but i think that is just habit as they got used to this for a while and they will drop this behaviour soon. because people being able to block/reflect on reaction can easily dodge it and keep the other stuff for the malice build up shots. reflecting those is more important as no hits => no malice = no beam of doom. > > > > I typically start a thread when I think something is an oversight on Anet's part. This was the case with Death's Judgment previously being able to benefit from the old malice regardless of what the deadeye had marked. It used to be possible to mark one target, build malice against it, and then get Death's Judgment's damage bonus against another, unmarked target. > > > > I think the unblockable on Death's Judgment as a Stealth Attack is an oversight since the previous Stealth Attack was unblockable and deadeye did not previously have an innately unblockable attack this strong. I could be wrong. It's entirely possible an Anet dev looked at Death's Judgment and thought the unblockable addition to be perfectly balanced. Wouldn't surprise me any as it seems like most of the players consider the deadeye rework to be inherently flawed in one fashion or another (hence the numerous threads on it in addition to Anet's own thread). > > > > I don't personally find stealth to be enough of a trade-off for the unblockable. Not when a deadeye has much more access to stealth than other professions have to evading/dodging, the only reliable ways to avoid the shot now without burning an invuln. LOS tends to be situational. Useful but the stealthed opponent typically has the upper hand when it comes to positioning. > > At your last point o in the patch notes they specifically stated that they made DJ Unblockable, which means they fully intended it to be so. Patch notes am I right?#rc > > >Death's Judgment: This attack's initiative cost has been removed, and it has moved to become the stealth attack for rifles. *It is now unblockable and consumes all malice when the thief strikes their marked target*. Reduced the casting time by about 0.25 seconds. Anet's intentions don't always play out well in the actual game. I'm not saying they're not aware that it's unblockable now; I'm saying I don't think they've fully considered the impact of making it unblockable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497 Posted May 10, 2018 Share Posted May 10, 2018 > @"Shadowcat.2680" said: > > @"BlaqueFyre.5678" said: > > > @"Shadowcat.2680" said: > > > > @"MUDse.7623" said: > > > > > @"Shadowcat.2680" said: > > > > > > @"MUDse.7623" said: > > > > > > > @"Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"MUDse.7623" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"BlaqueFyre.5678" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > and it isn’t even spammable since it requires the build up of Malice which only happens from using Initiative skills on opponents and it drains all Malice when it strikes opponents, and it’s not even the highest hitting Unblockable skill as you claim. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > carefull someone will come and tell you how OP MI is to build up for a DJ as it doesnt require attacking and you dont lose malice if you dont successfully hit ;). preperation for the fight = 2 min and then lets go. > > > > > > > > > > > > and because it is sooo strong many will do that, just like all the 100s of DEs going for MBackstab without leaving stealth before the hit! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Shadowcat.2680" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > As to soulbeast, longbow doesn't pierce innately. If you're seeing piercing shots from a longbow, it's a ranger with longbow traited through Marksmanship. There's also nothing innately unblockable on longbow. Soulbeast does have a lot of unblockable uptime through Unstoppable Union, Signet of the Hunt, and Call of the Wild (the warhorn skill), and you're welcome to go post about that uptime in the ranger forum. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ok so the problem is the unblockable attached to DJ.. i would love to give that up for a trait making us unblockable during reveal to give us even more reason to play in and out of stealth style ( maybe instead of MI, because that trait is soooo strong). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > if you were trying to reflect/block DJ, that was already stupid before the patch as the DE can use basi venom for that one skill. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I already made the point that a deadeye should have to use basi to have an unblockable Death's Judgment. A deadeye running basi is one who's sacrificed the ability to remove reveal for that unblockable. Trade-offs through traits or through utilities/elites are not the issue here. Death's Judgment being given as a free unblockable is. > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Turk.5460" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Shadowcat.2680" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > Death's Judgment does require malice for its bigger hits, and I've no issues with its damage. It doesn't need to be unblockable. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes. Yes it does. You clearly have no idea what you're talking about - at this point you're just whining because you got a big boo-boo. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > A Death's Judgement with no Malice from a Thief in Marauder's gear will crit for 6k-8k. > > > > > > > > > > > This thread has nothing to with my personal ability or inability to counter rifle deadeyes. The point is that much of the counterplay has been removed simply by Death's Judgment being an innate unblockable. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And what's wrong with dodging or breaking line of sight. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From the deadeye perspective: what's wrong with having to be aware of when an opponent is blocking/reflecting? Death's Judgment, like any skill with a cast time, can be cancelled before completion. No malice is lost when it's cancelled and deadeye can remove the self-reveal from the skill if running Shadow Meld. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > because the bullet is really fast and shadow meld has only 5 second cooldown i guess? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 45 for a charge to come back. 5 to use a charge. > > > > > > > > > > > > ty, i do know that but he made it sound like i will hit most of the time and if once in a year i maybe wont hit my super OP beam of doom, then i am safe because i can use elite wich is soo fast, it wont ever be interrupted wich puts it on longer cd then the remaining reveal :D > > > > > > > > > > > > i simply dont understand how he can complain about DJ now with a stealth requirement. if you want to oneshot now you will use backstab , better damage and more reliable to hit, no reveal on fail. DJ is now more part of an active playstyle were you shortly go into stealth when m7 procs to try a burst or rather force an evade to hit more TRB after. if you just go shortly in stealth and attack with rifle in between, you got enough TRB/spotters to reflect already and can use that dodge for DJ. > > > > > > i mean he made a post because perfectionist stacking to 25 might before a backstab was soo op before patch - now MBackstab hits way more damage without any might but no thread about it. > > > > > Trait manipulation to get a second proc of Perfectionist is no longer possible since Perfectionist got rolled into M7. > > > > > > > > > > I'm sure MBackstab will be a worse offender for one-shots. Feel free to start or contribute to a thread about it. > > > > > > > > ok so something being strong or not is not the reason for you to start a topic. > > > > then i guess you are actually fine with DJ, just dont feel like there was a trade off for the unblockable fact. > > > > well needing stealth imo is the trade off for unblockable and consuming malice the trade off for no ini. > > > > > > > > sure atleast in WvW still alot of people try to reflect/block but i think that is just habit as they got used to this for a while and they will drop this behaviour soon. because people being able to block/reflect on reaction can easily dodge it and keep the other stuff for the malice build up shots. reflecting those is more important as no hits => no malice = no beam of doom. > > > > > > I typically start a thread when I think something is an oversight on Anet's part. This was the case with Death's Judgment previously being able to benefit from the old malice regardless of what the deadeye had marked. It used to be possible to mark one target, build malice against it, and then get Death's Judgment's damage bonus against another, unmarked target. > > > > > > I think the unblockable on Death's Judgment as a Stealth Attack is an oversight since the previous Stealth Attack was unblockable and deadeye did not previously have an innately unblockable attack this strong. I could be wrong. It's entirely possible an Anet dev looked at Death's Judgment and thought the unblockable addition to be perfectly balanced. Wouldn't surprise me any as it seems like most of the players consider the deadeye rework to be inherently flawed in one fashion or another (hence the numerous threads on it in addition to Anet's own thread). > > > > > > I don't personally find stealth to be enough of a trade-off for the unblockable. Not when a deadeye has much more access to stealth than other professions have to evading/dodging, the only reliable ways to avoid the shot now without burning an invuln. LOS tends to be situational. Useful but the stealthed opponent typically has the upper hand when it comes to positioning. > > > > At your last point o in the patch notes they specifically stated that they made DJ Unblockable, which means they fully intended it to be so. Patch notes am I right?#rc > > > > >Death's Judgment: This attack's initiative cost has been removed, and it has moved to become the stealth attack for rifles. *It is now unblockable and consumes all malice when the thief strikes their marked target*. Reduced the casting time by about 0.25 seconds. > > Anet's intentions don't always play out well in the actual game. I'm not saying they're not aware that it's unblockable now; I'm saying I don't think they've fully considered the impact of making it unblockable. Pretty sure they did Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlaqueFyre.5678 Posted May 10, 2018 Share Posted May 10, 2018 > @"Shadowcat.2680" said: > > @"BlaqueFyre.5678" said: > > > @"Shadowcat.2680" said: > > > > @"MUDse.7623" said: > > > > > @"Shadowcat.2680" said: > > > > > > @"MUDse.7623" said: > > > > > > > @"Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"MUDse.7623" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"BlaqueFyre.5678" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > and it isn’t even spammable since it requires the build up of Malice which only happens from using Initiative skills on opponents and it drains all Malice when it strikes opponents, and it’s not even the highest hitting Unblockable skill as you claim. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > carefull someone will come and tell you how OP MI is to build up for a DJ as it doesnt require attacking and you dont lose malice if you dont successfully hit ;). preperation for the fight = 2 min and then lets go. > > > > > > > > > > > > and because it is sooo strong many will do that, just like all the 100s of DEs going for MBackstab without leaving stealth before the hit! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Shadowcat.2680" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > As to soulbeast, longbow doesn't pierce innately. If you're seeing piercing shots from a longbow, it's a ranger with longbow traited through Marksmanship. There's also nothing innately unblockable on longbow. Soulbeast does have a lot of unblockable uptime through Unstoppable Union, Signet of the Hunt, and Call of the Wild (the warhorn skill), and you're welcome to go post about that uptime in the ranger forum. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ok so the problem is the unblockable attached to DJ.. i would love to give that up for a trait making us unblockable during reveal to give us even more reason to play in and out of stealth style ( maybe instead of MI, because that trait is soooo strong). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > if you were trying to reflect/block DJ, that was already stupid before the patch as the DE can use basi venom for that one skill. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I already made the point that a deadeye should have to use basi to have an unblockable Death's Judgment. A deadeye running basi is one who's sacrificed the ability to remove reveal for that unblockable. Trade-offs through traits or through utilities/elites are not the issue here. Death's Judgment being given as a free unblockable is. > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Turk.5460" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Shadowcat.2680" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > Death's Judgment does require malice for its bigger hits, and I've no issues with its damage. It doesn't need to be unblockable. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes. Yes it does. You clearly have no idea what you're talking about - at this point you're just whining because you got a big boo-boo. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > A Death's Judgement with no Malice from a Thief in Marauder's gear will crit for 6k-8k. > > > > > > > > > > > This thread has nothing to with my personal ability or inability to counter rifle deadeyes. The point is that much of the counterplay has been removed simply by Death's Judgment being an innate unblockable. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And what's wrong with dodging or breaking line of sight. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From the deadeye perspective: what's wrong with having to be aware of when an opponent is blocking/reflecting? Death's Judgment, like any skill with a cast time, can be cancelled before completion. No malice is lost when it's cancelled and deadeye can remove the self-reveal from the skill if running Shadow Meld. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > because the bullet is really fast and shadow meld has only 5 second cooldown i guess? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 45 for a charge to come back. 5 to use a charge. > > > > > > > > > > > > ty, i do know that but he made it sound like i will hit most of the time and if once in a year i maybe wont hit my super OP beam of doom, then i am safe because i can use elite wich is soo fast, it wont ever be interrupted wich puts it on longer cd then the remaining reveal :D > > > > > > > > > > > > i simply dont understand how he can complain about DJ now with a stealth requirement. if you want to oneshot now you will use backstab , better damage and more reliable to hit, no reveal on fail. DJ is now more part of an active playstyle were you shortly go into stealth when m7 procs to try a burst or rather force an evade to hit more TRB after. if you just go shortly in stealth and attack with rifle in between, you got enough TRB/spotters to reflect already and can use that dodge for DJ. > > > > > > i mean he made a post because perfectionist stacking to 25 might before a backstab was soo op before patch - now MBackstab hits way more damage without any might but no thread about it. > > > > > Trait manipulation to get a second proc of Perfectionist is no longer possible since Perfectionist got rolled into M7. > > > > > > > > > > I'm sure MBackstab will be a worse offender for one-shots. Feel free to start or contribute to a thread about it. > > > > > > > > ok so something being strong or not is not the reason for you to start a topic. > > > > then i guess you are actually fine with DJ, just dont feel like there was a trade off for the unblockable fact. > > > > well needing stealth imo is the trade off for unblockable and consuming malice the trade off for no ini. > > > > > > > > sure atleast in WvW still alot of people try to reflect/block but i think that is just habit as they got used to this for a while and they will drop this behaviour soon. because people being able to block/reflect on reaction can easily dodge it and keep the other stuff for the malice build up shots. reflecting those is more important as no hits => no malice = no beam of doom. > > > > > > I typically start a thread when I think something is an oversight on Anet's part. This was the case with Death's Judgment previously being able to benefit from the old malice regardless of what the deadeye had marked. It used to be possible to mark one target, build malice against it, and then get Death's Judgment's damage bonus against another, unmarked target. > > > > > > I think the unblockable on Death's Judgment as a Stealth Attack is an oversight since the previous Stealth Attack was unblockable and deadeye did not previously have an innately unblockable attack this strong. I could be wrong. It's entirely possible an Anet dev looked at Death's Judgment and thought the unblockable addition to be perfectly balanced. Wouldn't surprise me any as it seems like most of the players consider the deadeye rework to be inherently flawed in one fashion or another (hence the numerous threads on it in addition to Anet's own thread). > > > > > > I don't personally find stealth to be enough of a trade-off for the unblockable. Not when a deadeye has much more access to stealth than other professions have to evading/dodging, the only reliable ways to avoid the shot now without burning an invuln. LOS tends to be situational. Useful but the stealthed opponent typically has the upper hand when it comes to positioning. > > > > At your last point o in the patch notes they specifically stated that they made DJ Unblockable, which means they fully intended it to be so. Patch notes am I right?#rc > > > > >Death's Judgment: This attack's initiative cost has been removed, and it has moved to become the stealth attack for rifles. *It is now unblockable and consumes all malice when the thief strikes their marked target*. Reduced the casting time by about 0.25 seconds. > > Anet's intentions don't always play out well in the actual game. I'm not saying they're not aware that it's unblockable now; I'm saying I don't think they've fully considered the impact of making it unblockable. I think they did, since it’s has certain conditions that need to be met to use it optimally, ie can’t use it unless in stealth, can’t get max damage unless at max Malice, it’s has multiple very large and obvious tells, it’s a relatively slow moving projectile, and they nerfed it’s damage considerably, so it makes perfect sense why they would add Unblockable to it to balance out the nerds and added restrictions to the skill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turk.5460 Posted May 10, 2018 Share Posted May 10, 2018 Does OP still think that there's little counterplay to the projectile that can be LoS'd, Obstructed, No 15% target-movement buffer, has a huge bright laser and loud audio cue, evaded, and...body blocked by NPC/AI?? Good lord why is this thread still a thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Disgrace.4275 Posted May 10, 2018 Share Posted May 10, 2018 > @"Sir Vincent III.1286" said: > You counter it by dodging, just like everything else. You can still counter it with Invincibility and Barrier. IMO, all stealth attacks should be unblockable. You can't block what you can't see. hang on a second here. not only is it unblockable, it is also 1/2 second now and not 3/4. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sobx.1758 Posted May 10, 2018 Share Posted May 10, 2018 > @"Shadowcat.2680" said: > If the point of the skill's tells (the laser and the sound effects) is to encourage counterplay, then the existent counterplay in the game for projectiles should actually be viable against it. You have the tell, you have the ability to dodge, connect the dots. Literally two dots, I hope you'll manage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curennos.9307 Posted May 10, 2018 Share Posted May 10, 2018 Can I trade unblockable for Pierce? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kash.9213 Posted May 10, 2018 Share Posted May 10, 2018 > @"Curennos.9307" said: > Can I trade unblockable for Pierce? I can find ways around most stuff but body blocking in WvW when I'm trying to hit my Mark for Malice in large fights has reduced my time on Rifle. Mark and Malice before allowed some positioning and timing to corral target or groups but I kind of have to yolo into the circles on sword more to build up. Losing Peripheral Vision and Cursed Bullet compounds that overall loss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scud.5067 Posted May 10, 2018 Share Posted May 10, 2018 Deadeye vanishes from sight? Best have a dodge ready. It's well signaled and easy to dodge if you can notice a laser beam line. And if you can't well.. the signal is the Deadeye vanishing. Its signalling, 'Get ready to dodge'. The laser is just a bonus. I've had fellow thieves dodge it a fair few times. Forced me to mix up my timing. Good play - bait/baited. What you can't do is rely on passive defence. And that's great - time to dedicate some focus on the Deadeye during the fight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeceiverX.8361 Posted May 11, 2018 Share Posted May 11, 2018 > @"Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497" said: > > @"DeceiverX.8361" said: > > The math is correct - you're not accounting for initiative regeneration and cast times. > > > > Unless under the effects of quickness, passive initiative regeneration will cover the remaining initiative while making those three attacks as this requires 1.5s for the three attacks without accounting for precast and aftercast delays or the animation to acquire stealth and cast DJ which is free. Aside from some kind of Haste + Blinding Powder combo, there's physically no way for a thief to not regen its initiative to max from M7 with Skirmisher's Shot. Even if using DT as a source, if using SScope, there are .75*3+.75 = 3s of animations without account for pre-cast/aftercast delays from skill use alone which sets the thief back a whopping... 2 initiative at the end with M7. That's assuming DT is just completely spammed with zero attack delay. So the thief after the DJ is <= 1 initiative actually spent using M7's recovery. > > > > So all we've really concluded here is that unless you can negate all of the damage leading up to closing in on the thief, it can max malice every 4s, ignores single blocks and blinds via DT as far as gaining malice goes, and doesn't need to kneel for any purpose while still out-pacing the rotation on every build in the game that doesn't have permanent vigor with an unblockable nuke. > > > > It's extremely poorly-thought-out and offers way, way less counterplay than prior. > > You were not including passive regeneration. But placing passive regeneration into the assumption makes me curious if you have ever played thief. There's a very good reason why our builds are so limited. And it's because trickery gives a few more points of ini, and ini restore on steal. Even then, we have to be careful. > > If you depend on your passive regeneration, and you run out you will find that people will brutally punish you for it higher up the ladder. Are you serious right now? Are you really trying to claim that passive initiative regen is irrelevant when making arguments about initiative costs and refunding and that my math when talking about net costs under the case of spam was incorrect because I did not forward my initial message by including the obvious pragmatic variable of natural recovery and cast times... AKA how the entire profession works at every level, spec, and concept? And then to have the audacity to make the claim that me, of all people, has never played the thief before? It's okay to admit you're wrong. Sometimes I am wrong and I admit when I am. A number of prominent posters and I have disagreed. Sometimes I am wrong when approaching bugs or there's some nuance happening behind the scenes. This happened in the DJ thread with MUDse and there was an odd nuance not fully understood or realized by either of us when we ran opposing tests. But your post has nothing to do with anything discussed, and M7 and initiative recovery in the DE has nothing to do with Trickery when talking about pressure potential and counterplay options by measure of units of time in comparing resources. I did the math out for the absolute lowest-level play scenario for the demonstration of the most extreme case, with no worry of incoming interrupts or fakes or delayed casts or anything just to show how few resources are actually net-spent via this trait. That math is literally just the result of what would occur from mashing the sequence of keys necessary to generate max malice and rotating a DJ as soon as it's physically possible. And that math says this style of play is basically resource-less, allowing way more freedom to expend the resources in other ways. The only thieves who aren't mindful of passive initiative regeneration are ones who spam or use predictable rotations and don't think about anything happening beyond the current second. They do not think about where the fight will be one, two, five seconds from now, or where their resources will be. They do not track cooldowns. They do not track passives. They do not track boons and ability durations. Players not thinking of these things are not good players. The common denominator has fallen over the years with the influx of overly-complex mechanics and lots of anti-punishment mechanics and powercreep, but it does not change the fact that these are the roots of skilled play. Any pro player. Any play-by-play video guide and walkthrough from the best thieves. Anything pertinent to PvP in any game at all, will promote with certain veracity that resource management and tracking is paramount to winning. Not doing so may fly with free stealth and resets and most FoTM builds at a low level of play, but that doesn't work with anyone not playing innately safe builds into skilled opponents. And I do not play said safe builds and I think anyone who's been here long enough knows damned well I don't play safe builds. Please. Save yourself the bother with ad hominem attacks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497 Posted May 11, 2018 Share Posted May 11, 2018 > @"DeceiverX.8361" said: > > @"Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497" said: > > > @"DeceiverX.8361" said: > > > The math is correct - you're not accounting for initiative regeneration and cast times. > > > > > > Unless under the effects of quickness, passive initiative regeneration will cover the remaining initiative while making those three attacks as this requires 1.5s for the three attacks without accounting for precast and aftercast delays or the animation to acquire stealth and cast DJ which is free. Aside from some kind of Haste + Blinding Powder combo, there's physically no way for a thief to not regen its initiative to max from M7 with Skirmisher's Shot. Even if using DT as a source, if using SScope, there are .75*3+.75 = 3s of animations without account for pre-cast/aftercast delays from skill use alone which sets the thief back a whopping... 2 initiative at the end with M7. That's assuming DT is just completely spammed with zero attack delay. So the thief after the DJ is <= 1 initiative actually spent using M7's recovery. > > > > > > So all we've really concluded here is that unless you can negate all of the damage leading up to closing in on the thief, it can max malice every 4s, ignores single blocks and blinds via DT as far as gaining malice goes, and doesn't need to kneel for any purpose while still out-pacing the rotation on every build in the game that doesn't have permanent vigor with an unblockable nuke. > > > > > > It's extremely poorly-thought-out and offers way, way less counterplay than prior. > > > > You were not including passive regeneration. But placing passive regeneration into the assumption makes me curious if you have ever played thief. There's a very good reason why our builds are so limited. And it's because trickery gives a few more points of ini, and ini restore on steal. Even then, we have to be careful. > > > > If you depend on your passive regeneration, and you run out you will find that people will brutally punish you for it higher up the ladder. > > Are you serious right now? > > Are you really trying to claim that passive initiative regen is irrelevant when making arguments about initiative costs and refunding and that my math when talking about net costs under the case of spam was incorrect because I did not forward my initial message by including the obvious pragmatic variable of natural recovery and cast times... AKA how the entire profession works at every level, spec, and concept? > > And then to have the audacity to make the claim that me, of all people, has never played the thief before? > > It's okay to admit you're wrong. Sometimes I am wrong and I admit when I am. A number of prominent posters and I have disagreed. Sometimes I am wrong when approaching bugs or there's some nuance happening behind the scenes. This happened in the DJ thread with MUDse and there was an odd nuance not fully understood or realized by either of us when we ran opposing tests. But your post has nothing to do with anything discussed, and M7 and initiative recovery in the DE has nothing to do with Trickery when talking about pressure potential and counterplay options by measure of units of time in comparing resources. I did the math out for the absolute lowest-level play scenario for the demonstration of the most extreme case, with no worry of incoming interrupts or fakes or delayed casts or anything just to show how few resources are actually net-spent via this trait. That math is literally just the result of what would occur from mashing the sequence of keys necessary to generate max malice and rotating a DJ as soon as it's physically possible. And that math says this style of play is basically resource-less, allowing way more freedom to expend the resources in other ways. > > The only thieves who aren't mindful of passive initiative regeneration are ones who spam or use predictable rotations and don't think about anything happening beyond the current second. They do not think about where the fight will be one, two, five seconds from now, or where their resources will be. They do not track cooldowns. They do not track passives. They do not track boons and ability durations. Players not thinking of these things are not good players. The common denominator has fallen over the years with the influx of overly-complex mechanics and lots of anti-punishment mechanics and powercreep, but it does not change the fact that these are the roots of skilled play. Any pro player. Any play-by-play video guide and walkthrough from the best thieves. Anything pertinent to PvP in any game at all, will promote with certain veracity that resource management and tracking is paramount to winning. Not doing so may fly with free stealth and resets and most FoTM builds at a low level of play, but that doesn't work with anyone not playing innately safe builds into skilled opponents. And I do not play said safe builds and I think anyone who's been here long enough knows damned well I don't play safe builds. > > Please. Save yourself the bother with ad hominem attacks. > Can I get a tldr. Don't take it personally. But I don't care if you insult me or take anything as an attack. But the starting sentence of each paragraph tells me your entire post is a rant to make me look/feel bad or what ever. reduce it to three sentences. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadowcat.2680 Posted May 11, 2018 Author Share Posted May 11, 2018 > @"Scud.5067" said: > Deadeye vanishes from sight? Best have a dodge ready. It's well signaled and easy to dodge if you can notice a laser beam line. And if you can't well.. the signal is the Deadeye vanishing. Its signalling, 'Get ready to dodge'. The laser is just a bonus. > > I've had fellow thieves dodge it a fair few times. Forced me to mix up my timing. Good play - bait/baited. > > What you can't do is rely on passive defence. And that's great - time to dedicate some focus on the Deadeye during the fight. Most blocks/reflects/projectile destruction are triggered actively by the player and are not passive. All I'm after is more active play on both sides of the fight: deadeye and the one marked. A deadeye not needing to pay attention to blocks/reflects when using their burst skill promotes braindead gameplay, gameplay that relies on the passive of Death's Judgment being innately unblockable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlaqueFyre.5678 Posted May 11, 2018 Share Posted May 11, 2018 > @"Shadowcat.2680" said: > > @"Scud.5067" said: > > Deadeye vanishes from sight? Best have a dodge ready. It's well signaled and easy to dodge if you can notice a laser beam line. And if you can't well.. the signal is the Deadeye vanishing. Its signalling, 'Get ready to dodge'. The laser is just a bonus. > > > > I've had fellow thieves dodge it a fair few times. Forced me to mix up my timing. Good play - bait/baited. > > > > What you can't do is rely on passive defence. And that's great - time to dedicate some focus on the Deadeye during the fight. > > Most blocks/reflects/projectile destruction are triggered actively by the player and are not passive. All I'm after is more active play on both sides of the fight: deadeye and the one marked. A deadeye not needing to pay attention to blocks/reflects when using their burst skill promotes braindead gameplay, gameplay that relies on the passive of Death's Judgment being innately unblockable. But there are a lot of other counterplay already available sorry, oi are complaining about a non issue, again go read above of all the counterplay and the massive obvious tells on the skill it’s self. It’s ok for skills to be able to counterplay other skills, it’s a fact of the game and why Blocks and Projectile hate exist and why there are allowed to be Unblockable skills to bypass those, it’s actually healthy design. So far all claims brought up in the OP have been debunked and the reason is very clear on why this thread was started, and fun fact it’s not DJ that’s the issue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadowcat.2680 Posted May 11, 2018 Author Share Posted May 11, 2018 > @"BlaqueFyre.5678" said: > > @"Shadowcat.2680" said: > > > @"Scud.5067" said: > > > Deadeye vanishes from sight? Best have a dodge ready. It's well signaled and easy to dodge if you can notice a laser beam line. And if you can't well.. the signal is the Deadeye vanishing. Its signalling, 'Get ready to dodge'. The laser is just a bonus. > > > > > > I've had fellow thieves dodge it a fair few times. Forced me to mix up my timing. Good play - bait/baited. > > > > > > What you can't do is rely on passive defence. And that's great - time to dedicate some focus on the Deadeye during the fight. > > > > Most blocks/reflects/projectile destruction are triggered actively by the player and are not passive. All I'm after is more active play on both sides of the fight: deadeye and the one marked. A deadeye not needing to pay attention to blocks/reflects when using their burst skill promotes braindead gameplay, gameplay that relies on the passive of Death's Judgment being innately unblockable. > > But there are a lot of other counterplay already available sorry, oi are complaining about a non issue, again go read above of all the counterplay and the massive obvious tells on the skill it’s self. > > It’s ok for skills to be able to counterplay other skills, it’s a fact of the game and why Blocks and Projectile hate exist and why there are allowed to be Unblockable skills to bypass those, it’s actually healthy design. > > So far all claims brought up in the OP have been debunked and the reason is very clear on why this thread was started, and fun fact it’s not DJ that’s the issue I've stated outright why this thread was started: Death's Judgment should be susceptible to the counterplay already existent in the game for projectiles. The other (reliable) counterplay currently available is dodging/evading or activating an invuln. Terrain and LOS are situational at best. The tell on Death's Judgment doesn't mean it should be unblockable or it would've been unblockable all along (and every hard-hitting skill in the game with an obvious tell would also be unblockable by that logic). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlaqueFyre.5678 Posted May 11, 2018 Share Posted May 11, 2018 > @"Shadowcat.2680" said: > > @"BlaqueFyre.5678" said: > > > @"Shadowcat.2680" said: > > > > @"Scud.5067" said: > > > > Deadeye vanishes from sight? Best have a dodge ready. It's well signaled and easy to dodge if you can notice a laser beam line. And if you can't well.. the signal is the Deadeye vanishing. Its signalling, 'Get ready to dodge'. The laser is just a bonus. > > > > > > > > I've had fellow thieves dodge it a fair few times. Forced me to mix up my timing. Good play - bait/baited. > > > > > > > > What you can't do is rely on passive defence. And that's great - time to dedicate some focus on the Deadeye during the fight. > > > > > > Most blocks/reflects/projectile destruction are triggered actively by the player and are not passive. All I'm after is more active play on both sides of the fight: deadeye and the one marked. A deadeye not needing to pay attention to blocks/reflects when using their burst skill promotes braindead gameplay, gameplay that relies on the passive of Death's Judgment being innately unblockable. > > > > But there are a lot of other counterplay already available sorry, oi are complaining about a non issue, again go read above of all the counterplay and the massive obvious tells on the skill it’s self. > > > > It’s ok for skills to be able to counterplay other skills, it’s a fact of the game and why Blocks and Projectile hate exist and why there are allowed to be Unblockable skills to bypass those, it’s actually healthy design. > > > > So far all claims brought up in the OP have been debunked and the reason is very clear on why this thread was started, and fun fact it’s not DJ that’s the issue > > I've stated outright why this thread was started: Death's Judgment should be susceptible to the counterplay already existent in the game for projectiles. The other (reliable) counterplay currently available is dodging/evading or activating an invuln. Terrain and LOS are situational at best. > > The tell on Death's Judgment doesn't mean it should be unblockable or it would've been unblockable all along (and every hard-hitting skill in the game with an obvious tell would also be unblockable by that logic). Now it has Requirements that added more counter play that it didn’t have before so again it is perfectly fine, there is more than enough counterplay to it in game. Also all the claims brought in the OP to state why it shouldn’t be Unblockable have been debunked, so what’s the reason now it shouldn’t be Unblockable? Is it the highest base damage Unblockable skill in game? No Is it Spammable? Not even close Does it have a plethora of counterplay? Yes, tons. If anything the Plethora Of Projectile hate and Blocks needs more counterplay and guess what here it is more counterplay to the amount of cancerous defense spam in game. Again it’s perfectly clear where the issue lies and it’s not DJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DemonSeed.3528 Posted May 11, 2018 Share Posted May 11, 2018 I think what we've gathered from all of this is that DJ needs something like cluster bomb added - I shall called it "shattered bullet" XD. Come on anet, you can do it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadowcat.2680 Posted May 11, 2018 Author Share Posted May 11, 2018 > @"BlaqueFyre.5678" said: > > @"Shadowcat.2680" said: > > > @"BlaqueFyre.5678" said: > > > > @"Shadowcat.2680" said: > > > > > @"Scud.5067" said: > > > > > Deadeye vanishes from sight? Best have a dodge ready. It's well signaled and easy to dodge if you can notice a laser beam line. And if you can't well.. the signal is the Deadeye vanishing. Its signalling, 'Get ready to dodge'. The laser is just a bonus. > > > > > > > > > > I've had fellow thieves dodge it a fair few times. Forced me to mix up my timing. Good play - bait/baited. > > > > > > > > > > What you can't do is rely on passive defence. And that's great - time to dedicate some focus on the Deadeye during the fight. > > > > > > > > Most blocks/reflects/projectile destruction are triggered actively by the player and are not passive. All I'm after is more active play on both sides of the fight: deadeye and the one marked. A deadeye not needing to pay attention to blocks/reflects when using their burst skill promotes braindead gameplay, gameplay that relies on the passive of Death's Judgment being innately unblockable. > > > > > > But there are a lot of other counterplay already available sorry, oi are complaining about a non issue, again go read above of all the counterplay and the massive obvious tells on the skill it’s self. > > > > > > It’s ok for skills to be able to counterplay other skills, it’s a fact of the game and why Blocks and Projectile hate exist and why there are allowed to be Unblockable skills to bypass those, it’s actually healthy design. > > > > > > So far all claims brought up in the OP have been debunked and the reason is very clear on why this thread was started, and fun fact it’s not DJ that’s the issue > > > > I've stated outright why this thread was started: Death's Judgment should be susceptible to the counterplay already existent in the game for projectiles. The other (reliable) counterplay currently available is dodging/evading or activating an invuln. Terrain and LOS are situational at best. > > > > The tell on Death's Judgment doesn't mean it should be unblockable or it would've been unblockable all along (and every hard-hitting skill in the game with an obvious tell would also be unblockable by that logic). > > Now it has Requirements that added more counter play that it didn’t have before so again it is perfectly fine, there is more than enough counterplay to it in game. > > Also all the claims brought in the OP to state why it shouldn’t be Unblockable have been debunked, so what’s the reason now it shouldn’t be Unblockable? > > Is it the highest base damage Unblockable skill in game? No > > Is it Spammable? Not even close > > Does it have a plethora of counterplay? Yes, tons. > > > If anything the Plethora Of Projectile hate and Blocks needs more counterplay and guess what here it is more counterplay to the amount of cancerous defense spam in game. > > > Again it’s perfectly clear where the issue lies and it’s not DJ 1) It is the hardest hitting unblockable skill in the game. You've mentioned Phoenix and Prime Light Beam as examples of skills that do more damage. They don't. 2) Malice builds much quicker than the old malice and the new M7 refunds most of the ini spent building that malice. Spam is very much rewarded by the new malice. 3) The addition of needing stealth for Death's Judgment didn't add any counterplay. A deadeye stealthing has always been a cue that Death's Judgment is likely incoming. Stealth still isn't a guarantee a Death's Judgment will follow. A deadeye's high access to stealth and malice lingering for 30 secs or until the shot gets taken will always mean the deadeye has more opportunities to fire Death's Judgment than most opponents have to dodge or evade. 4) There is already existent, active counterplay to blocks/reflects. Death's Judgment existing as innately unblockable is a passive (something the game does for you) on the damage side of things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MUDse.7623 Posted May 11, 2018 Share Posted May 11, 2018 > @"Shadowcat.2680" said: > > @"BlaqueFyre.5678" said: > > > @"Shadowcat.2680" said: > > > > @"BlaqueFyre.5678" said: > > > > > @"Shadowcat.2680" said: > > > > > > @"Scud.5067" said: > > > > > > Deadeye vanishes from sight? Best have a dodge ready. It's well signaled and easy to dodge if you can notice a laser beam line. And if you can't well.. the signal is the Deadeye vanishing. Its signalling, 'Get ready to dodge'. The laser is just a bonus. > > > > > > > > > > > > I've had fellow thieves dodge it a fair few times. Forced me to mix up my timing. Good play - bait/baited. > > > > > > > > > > > > What you can't do is rely on passive defence. And that's great - time to dedicate some focus on the Deadeye during the fight. > > > > > > > > > > Most blocks/reflects/projectile destruction are triggered actively by the player and are not passive. All I'm after is more active play on both sides of the fight: deadeye and the one marked. A deadeye not needing to pay attention to blocks/reflects when using their burst skill promotes braindead gameplay, gameplay that relies on the passive of Death's Judgment being innately unblockable. > > > > > > > > But there are a lot of other counterplay already available sorry, oi are complaining about a non issue, again go read above of all the counterplay and the massive obvious tells on the skill it’s self. > > > > > > > > It’s ok for skills to be able to counterplay other skills, it’s a fact of the game and why Blocks and Projectile hate exist and why there are allowed to be Unblockable skills to bypass those, it’s actually healthy design. > > > > > > > > So far all claims brought up in the OP have been debunked and the reason is very clear on why this thread was started, and fun fact it’s not DJ that’s the issue > > > > > > I've stated outright why this thread was started: Death's Judgment should be susceptible to the counterplay already existent in the game for projectiles. The other (reliable) counterplay currently available is dodging/evading or activating an invuln. Terrain and LOS are situational at best. > > > > > > The tell on Death's Judgment doesn't mean it should be unblockable or it would've been unblockable all along (and every hard-hitting skill in the game with an obvious tell would also be unblockable by that logic). > > > > Now it has Requirements that added more counter play that it didn’t have before so again it is perfectly fine, there is more than enough counterplay to it in game. > > > > Also all the claims brought in the OP to state why it shouldn’t be Unblockable have been debunked, so what’s the reason now it shouldn’t be Unblockable? > > > > Is it the highest base damage Unblockable skill in game? No > > > > Is it Spammable? Not even close > > > > Does it have a plethora of counterplay? Yes, tons. > > > > > > If anything the Plethora Of Projectile hate and Blocks needs more counterplay and guess what here it is more counterplay to the amount of cancerous defense spam in game. > > > > > > Again it’s perfectly clear where the issue lies and it’s not DJ > > 1) It is the hardest hitting unblockable skill in the game. You've mentioned Phoenix and Prime Light Beam as examples of skills that do more damage. They don't. compared to 0 malice, they do. you can avoid most malice build up with reflect/block. > 2) Malice builds much quicker than the old malice and the new M7 refunds most of the ini spent building that malice. Spam is very much rewarded by the new malice. yes if you can reliably hit the stealth attack. if they kept CB and gave it increasing amount of boon corrupts based on malice and kept DJ were it was, then we would have a way more reliable way to reset malice as you can spamm CB in stealth till you hit as you dont get revealed and DJ while visible as you dont need stealth. > 3) The addition of needing stealth for Death's Judgment didn't add any counterplay. A deadeye stealthing has always been a cue that Death's Judgment is likely incoming. **Stealth still isn't a guarantee a Death's Judgment will follow**. A deadeye's high access to stealth and malice lingering for 30 secs or until the shot gets taken will always mean the deadeye has more opportunities to fire Death's Judgment than most opponents have to dodge or evade. a ranger switching on longbow is not a gurantee rapidfire will follow - pls nerf. i think you discard the stealth requirement way too easily, therefor dont understand how much of a limitation that is. fighting average joe this doesnt matter as they wouldnt dodge 1 DJ anyway, but people able to avoid 1 DJ for those you used the 1. as bait and then the 2nd dj to kill but now you cant suprise them with 2nd DJ. as soon as you enter stealth they will expect the possibility. while stealthed they dont have to focus on anything else anyway. > 4) There is already existent, active counterplay to blocks/reflects. Death's Judgment existing as innately unblockable is a passive (something the game does for you) on the damage side of things. would you be fine to remove unblockable DJ but replace MI with a trait giving unblockable during reveal? then its not innately unblockable, then its unblockable cause the DE is revealed! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DemonSeed.3528 Posted May 11, 2018 Share Posted May 11, 2018 > @"MUDse.7623" said: > yes if you can reliably hit the stealth attack. if they kept CB and gave it increasing amount of boon corrupts based on malice and kept DJ were it was, then we would have a way more reliable way to reset malice as you can spamm CB in stealth till you hit as you dont get revealed and DJ while visible as you dont need stealth. This sounds good, even if they did not bring cb back and just applied that to dj. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadowcat.2680 Posted May 11, 2018 Author Share Posted May 11, 2018 > @"MUDse.7623" said: > > @"Shadowcat.2680" said: > > > @"BlaqueFyre.5678" said: > > > > @"Shadowcat.2680" said: > > > > > @"BlaqueFyre.5678" said: > > > > > > @"Shadowcat.2680" said: > > > > > > > @"Scud.5067" said: > > > > > > > Deadeye vanishes from sight? Best have a dodge ready. It's well signaled and easy to dodge if you can notice a laser beam line. And if you can't well.. the signal is the Deadeye vanishing. Its signalling, 'Get ready to dodge'. The laser is just a bonus. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I've had fellow thieves dodge it a fair few times. Forced me to mix up my timing. Good play - bait/baited. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What you can't do is rely on passive defence. And that's great - time to dedicate some focus on the Deadeye during the fight. > > > > > > > > > > > > Most blocks/reflects/projectile destruction are triggered actively by the player and are not passive. All I'm after is more active play on both sides of the fight: deadeye and the one marked. A deadeye not needing to pay attention to blocks/reflects when using their burst skill promotes braindead gameplay, gameplay that relies on the passive of Death's Judgment being innately unblockable. > > > > > > > > > > But there are a lot of other counterplay already available sorry, oi are complaining about a non issue, again go read above of all the counterplay and the massive obvious tells on the skill it’s self. > > > > > > > > > > It’s ok for skills to be able to counterplay other skills, it’s a fact of the game and why Blocks and Projectile hate exist and why there are allowed to be Unblockable skills to bypass those, it’s actually healthy design. > > > > > > > > > > So far all claims brought up in the OP have been debunked and the reason is very clear on why this thread was started, and fun fact it’s not DJ that’s the issue > > > > > > > > I've stated outright why this thread was started: Death's Judgment should be susceptible to the counterplay already existent in the game for projectiles. The other (reliable) counterplay currently available is dodging/evading or activating an invuln. Terrain and LOS are situational at best. > > > > > > > > The tell on Death's Judgment doesn't mean it should be unblockable or it would've been unblockable all along (and every hard-hitting skill in the game with an obvious tell would also be unblockable by that logic). > > > > > > Now it has Requirements that added more counter play that it didn’t have before so again it is perfectly fine, there is more than enough counterplay to it in game. > > > > > > Also all the claims brought in the OP to state why it shouldn’t be Unblockable have been debunked, so what’s the reason now it shouldn’t be Unblockable? > > > > > > Is it the highest base damage Unblockable skill in game? No > > > > > > Is it Spammable? Not even close > > > > > > Does it have a plethora of counterplay? Yes, tons. > > > > > > > > > If anything the Plethora Of Projectile hate and Blocks needs more counterplay and guess what here it is more counterplay to the amount of cancerous defense spam in game. > > > > > > > > > Again it’s perfectly clear where the issue lies and it’s not DJ > > > > 1) It is the hardest hitting unblockable skill in the game. You've mentioned Phoenix and Prime Light Beam as examples of skills that do more damage. They don't. > compared to 0 malice, they do. you can avoid most malice build up with reflect/block. Prime Light Beam (at least in a mix of marauder/berserker) hits around 6-8k against most targets. I've never seen Phoenix do even that much. Maybe it can with weaver's damage modifiers, but weaver doesn't exactly have easy access to Phoenix. > > 2) Malice builds much quicker than the old malice and the new M7 refunds most of the ini spent building that malice. Spam is very much rewarded by the new malice. > yes if you can reliably hit the stealth attack. if they kept CB and gave it increasing amount of boon corrupts based on malice and kept DJ were it was, then we would have a way more reliable way to reset malice as you can spamm CB in stealth till you hit as you dont get revealed and DJ while visible as you dont need stealth. Death's Judgment as rifle's Stealth Attack was a poor choice, I agree. You can keep trying to land a MBackstab until you hit so long as your stealth lasts/you don't get revealed. Whereas Death's Judgment will always need its revealed aspect since the deadeye would otherwise not get revealed until the hit landed, which I'm pretty sure would mean the tell would get covered by stealth (if it works the same as other flashy attacks used when stealthed: Worldly Impact, Holo Shockwave, etc). > > 3) The addition of needing stealth for Death's Judgment didn't add any counterplay. A deadeye stealthing has always been a cue that Death's Judgment is likely incoming. **Stealth still isn't a guarantee a Death's Judgment will follow**. A deadeye's high access to stealth and malice lingering for 30 secs or until the shot gets taken will always mean the deadeye has more opportunities to fire Death's Judgment than most opponents have to dodge or evade. > a ranger switching on longbow is not a gurantee rapidfire will follow - pls nerf. > i think you discard the stealth requirement way too easily, therefor dont understand how much of a limitation that is. fighting average joe this doesnt matter as they wouldnt dodge 1 DJ anyway, but people able to avoid 1 DJ for those you used the 1. as bait and then the 2nd dj to kill but now you cant suprise them with 2nd DJ. as soon as you enter stealth they will expect the possibility. while stealthed they dont have to focus on anything else anyway. A deadeye can re-enter stealth more than most professions can dodge or evade. It is far more punishing to miss with Death's Judgment after the rework than it was previously, but gaining the malice back can be done quickly and with skills that aren't costly as far as ini is concerned. Blocks/reflects can slow the malice gain, but the deadeye needs only for 3 crits to get through to be back at max malice. > > 4) There is already existent, active counterplay to blocks/reflects. Death's Judgment existing as innately unblockable is a passive (something the game does for you) on the damage side of things. > would you be fine to remove unblockable DJ but replace MI with a trait giving unblockable during reveal? then its not innately unblockable, then its unblockable cause the DE is revealed! > > A trait giving unblockable during reveal as a replacement for MI would make much more sense than Death's Judgment having that unblockable being freely given. Such a trait would also have nice synergy with Revealed Training. 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MUDse.7623 Posted May 11, 2018 Share Posted May 11, 2018 > @"Shadowcat.2680" said: > > @"MUDse.7623" said: > > > @"Shadowcat.2680" said: > > > > @"BlaqueFyre.5678" said: > > > > > @"Shadowcat.2680" said: > > > > > > @"BlaqueFyre.5678" said: > > > > > > > @"Shadowcat.2680" said: > > > > > > > > @"Scud.5067" said: > > > > > > > > Deadeye vanishes from sight? Best have a dodge ready. It's well signaled and easy to dodge if you can notice a laser beam line. And if you can't well.. the signal is the Deadeye vanishing. Its signalling, 'Get ready to dodge'. The laser is just a bonus. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I've had fellow thieves dodge it a fair few times. Forced me to mix up my timing. Good play - bait/baited. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What you can't do is rely on passive defence. And that's great - time to dedicate some focus on the Deadeye during the fight. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Most blocks/reflects/projectile destruction are triggered actively by the player and are not passive. All I'm after is more active play on both sides of the fight: deadeye and the one marked. A deadeye not needing to pay attention to blocks/reflects when using their burst skill promotes braindead gameplay, gameplay that relies on the passive of Death's Judgment being innately unblockable. > > > > > > > > > > > > But there are a lot of other counterplay already available sorry, oi are complaining about a non issue, again go read above of all the counterplay and the massive obvious tells on the skill it’s self. > > > > > > > > > > > > It’s ok for skills to be able to counterplay other skills, it’s a fact of the game and why Blocks and Projectile hate exist and why there are allowed to be Unblockable skills to bypass those, it’s actually healthy design. > > > > > > > > > > > > So far all claims brought up in the OP have been debunked and the reason is very clear on why this thread was started, and fun fact it’s not DJ that’s the issue > > > > > > > > > > I've stated outright why this thread was started: Death's Judgment should be susceptible to the counterplay already existent in the game for projectiles. The other (reliable) counterplay currently available is dodging/evading or activating an invuln. Terrain and LOS are situational at best. > > > > > > > > > > The tell on Death's Judgment doesn't mean it should be unblockable or it would've been unblockable all along (and every hard-hitting skill in the game with an obvious tell would also be unblockable by that logic). > > > > > > > > Now it has Requirements that added more counter play that it didn’t have before so again it is perfectly fine, there is more than enough counterplay to it in game. > > > > > > > > Also all the claims brought in the OP to state why it shouldn’t be Unblockable have been debunked, so what’s the reason now it shouldn’t be Unblockable? > > > > > > > > Is it the highest base damage Unblockable skill in game? No > > > > > > > > Is it Spammable? Not even close > > > > > > > > Does it have a plethora of counterplay? Yes, tons. > > > > > > > > > > > > If anything the Plethora Of Projectile hate and Blocks needs more counterplay and guess what here it is more counterplay to the amount of cancerous defense spam in game. > > > > > > > > > > > > Again it’s perfectly clear where the issue lies and it’s not DJ > > > > > > 1) It is the hardest hitting unblockable skill in the game. You've mentioned Phoenix and Prime Light Beam as examples of skills that do more damage. They don't. > > compared to 0 malice, they do. you can avoid most malice build up with reflect/block. > Prime Light Beam (at least in a mix of marauder/berserker) hits around 6-8k against most targets. I've never seen Phoenix do even that much. Maybe it can with weaver's damage modifiers, but weaver doesn't exactly have easy access to Phoenix. i did play fresh air ele quite a while before HoT and did oneshot alot of people with phoenix, its one of the oldest hard hitting unblockables in the game. used to hit up to like 8 times if you placed it correctly but now i think got nerfed to 3 times, still does tons of damage. this is not a question of experience but stimple skill facts. many DE were building every trait and utility etc to oneshot with one single skill, they then rarely used DJ before malice is up - cause too much ini before patch and would consume malice now. if you let a full oneshot speced holo use prime light beam and a oneshot speced DE use unmarked DJ against the same target, then prime light beam will deal way more damage. > > > 2) Malice builds much quicker than the old malice and the new M7 refunds most of the ini spent building that malice. Spam is very much rewarded by the new malice. > > yes if you can reliably hit the stealth attack. if they kept CB and gave it increasing amount of boon corrupts based on malice and kept DJ were it was, then we would have a way more reliable way to reset malice as you can spamm CB in stealth till you hit as you dont get revealed and DJ while visible as you dont need stealth. > Death's Judgment as rifle's Stealth Attack was a poor choice, I agree. You can keep trying to land a MBackstab until you hit so long as your stealth lasts/you don't get revealed. Whereas Death's Judgment will always need its revealed aspect since the deadeye would otherwise not get revealed until the hit landed, which I'm pretty sure would mean the tell would get covered by stealth (if it works the same as other flashy attacks used when stealthed: Worldly Impact, Holo Shockwave, etc). why does DJ need the revealed aspect if MBackstab hits for more without any tells and even without tells you could still dodge the projectile, MBackstab you need to predict. and here you assume i run dagger on the other set. i currently run s/d + rifle, s/d stealth attack while more reliable the malice bonus is trash and DJ while the malice bonus is fine is super unreliable. > > > 3) The addition of needing stealth for Death's Judgment didn't add any counterplay. A deadeye stealthing has always been a cue that Death's Judgment is likely incoming. **Stealth still isn't a guarantee a Death's Judgment will follow**. A deadeye's high access to stealth and malice lingering for 30 secs or until the shot gets taken will always mean the deadeye has more opportunities to fire Death's Judgment than most opponents have to dodge or evade. > > a ranger switching on longbow is not a gurantee rapidfire will follow - pls nerf. > > i think you discard the stealth requirement way too easily, therefor dont understand how much of a limitation that is. fighting average joe this doesnt matter as they wouldnt dodge 1 DJ anyway, but people able to avoid 1 DJ for those you used the 1. as bait and then the 2nd dj to kill but now you cant suprise them with 2nd DJ. as soon as you enter stealth they will expect the possibility. while stealthed they dont have to focus on anything else anyway. > A deadeye can re-enter stealth more than most professions can dodge or evade. It is far more punishing to miss with Death's Judgment after the rework than it was previously, but gaining the malice back can be done quickly and with skills that aren't costly as far as ini is concerned. Blocks/reflects can slow the malice gain, but the deadeye needs only for 3 crits to get through to be back at max malice. you dont lose malice on a missed DJ, that is an issue for the deadeye as he wont profit from the ini gain through m7 if he cant reset malice. > > > 4) There is already existent, active counterplay to blocks/reflects. Death's Judgment existing as innately unblockable is a passive (something the game does for you) on the damage side of things. > > would you be fine to remove unblockable DJ but replace MI with a trait giving unblockable during reveal? then its not innately unblockable, then its unblockable cause the DE is revealed! > > > > > A trait giving unblockable during reveal as a replacement for MI would make much more sense than Death's Judgment having that unblockable being freely given. Such a trait would also have nice synergy with Revealed Training. and it would help with malice build up, no longer reflect/block spamm to avoid the build up hits - awesome! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlaqueFyre.5678 Posted May 11, 2018 Share Posted May 11, 2018 > @"Shadowcat.2680" said: > > @"BlaqueFyre.5678" said: > > > @"Shadowcat.2680" said: > > > > @"BlaqueFyre.5678" said: > > > > > @"Shadowcat.2680" said: > > > > > > @"Scud.5067" said: > > > > > > Deadeye vanishes from sight? Best have a dodge ready. It's well signaled and easy to dodge if you can notice a laser beam line. And if you can't well.. the signal is the Deadeye vanishing. Its signalling, 'Get ready to dodge'. The laser is just a bonus. > > > > > > > > > > > > I've had fellow thieves dodge it a fair few times. Forced me to mix up my timing. Good play - bait/baited. > > > > > > > > > > > > What you can't do is rely on passive defence. And that's great - time to dedicate some focus on the Deadeye during the fight. > > > > > > > > > > Most blocks/reflects/projectile destruction are triggered actively by the player and are not passive. All I'm after is more active play on both sides of the fight: deadeye and the one marked. A deadeye not needing to pay attention to blocks/reflects when using their burst skill promotes braindead gameplay, gameplay that relies on the passive of Death's Judgment being innately unblockable. > > > > > > > > But there are a lot of other counterplay already available sorry, oi are complaining about a non issue, again go read above of all the counterplay and the massive obvious tells on the skill it’s self. > > > > > > > > It’s ok for skills to be able to counterplay other skills, it’s a fact of the game and why Blocks and Projectile hate exist and why there are allowed to be Unblockable skills to bypass those, it’s actually healthy design. > > > > > > > > So far all claims brought up in the OP have been debunked and the reason is very clear on why this thread was started, and fun fact it’s not DJ that’s the issue > > > > > > I've stated outright why this thread was started: Death's Judgment should be susceptible to the counterplay already existent in the game for projectiles. The other (reliable) counterplay currently available is dodging/evading or activating an invuln. Terrain and LOS are situational at best. > > > > > > The tell on Death's Judgment doesn't mean it should be unblockable or it would've been unblockable all along (and every hard-hitting skill in the game with an obvious tell would also be unblockable by that logic). > > > > Now it has Requirements that added more counter play that it didn’t have before so again it is perfectly fine, there is more than enough counterplay to it in game. > > > > Also all the claims brought in the OP to state why it shouldn’t be Unblockable have been debunked, so what’s the reason now it shouldn’t be Unblockable? > > > > Is it the highest base damage Unblockable skill in game? No > > > > Is it Spammable? Not even close > > > > Does it have a plethora of counterplay? Yes, tons. > > > > > > If anything the Plethora Of Projectile hate and Blocks needs more counterplay and guess what here it is more counterplay to the amount of cancerous defense spam in game. > > > > > > Again it’s perfectly clear where the issue lies and it’s not DJ > > 1) It is the hardest hitting unblockable skill in the game. You've mentioned Phoenix and Prime Light Beam as examples of skills that do more damage. They don't. > 2) Malice builds much quicker than the old malice and the new M7 refunds most of the ini spent building that malice. Spam is very much rewarded by the new malice. > 3) The addition of needing stealth for Death's Judgment didn't add any counterplay. A deadeye stealthing has always been a cue that Death's Judgment is likely incoming. Stealth still isn't a guarantee a Death's Judgment will follow. A deadeye's high access to stealth and malice lingering for 30 secs or until the shot gets taken will always mean the deadeye has more opportunities to fire Death's Judgment than most opponents have to dodge or evade. > 4) There is already existent, active counterplay to blocks/reflects. Death's Judgment existing as innately unblockable is a passive (something the game does for you) on the damage side of things. 1) Your OP and main claim stated that DJ was the hardest hitting skill when not considering Malice, again that’s your claim not mine, it was debunked. Here’s your claim: > @"Shadowcat.2680" said: > It doesn't even take any malice for Death's Judgment to be the hardest hitting innately unblockable skill in the game. 2) DJ can’t be spammed since players have to break up the use of DJ by using quite a few other skills in between every successful DJ use, to have an effective DJ, again might want to look up the definition of spamming in regards to video games, this claim was debunked. 3) the addition of the Stealth requirement does add counterplay, it’s called Reveal skills, can’t use Stealth Attacks if you are Revealed and not in Stealth, funny how that works. And still has the plethora of other Counterplay available outside of that. 4) again as I stated because of the cancerous amount of blocks and Projectile hate it was needed for more counterplay to those types defense spam and here we have Anet ensuring Rifle Stealth Attack Stayed an Unblockable. Again all claims in the OP for why DJ needs to not be Unblockable have been debunked, and it’s crystal clear what the issue is, hint it’s not DJ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turk.5460 Posted May 11, 2018 Share Posted May 11, 2018 I'd trade the unblockable for Unforgiving back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asur.9178 Posted May 11, 2018 Share Posted May 11, 2018 > @"BlaqueFyre.5678" said: > > @"Shadowcat.2680" said: > > > @"BlaqueFyre.5678" said: > > > > @"Shadowcat.2680" said: > > > > > @"BlaqueFyre.5678" said: > > > > > > @"Shadowcat.2680" said: > > > > > > > @"Scud.5067" said: > > > > > > > Deadeye vanishes from sight? Best have a dodge ready. It's well signaled and easy to dodge if you can notice a laser beam line. And if you can't well.. the signal is the Deadeye vanishing. Its signalling, 'Get ready to dodge'. The laser is just a bonus. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I've had fellow thieves dodge it a fair few times. Forced me to mix up my timing. Good play - bait/baited. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What you can't do is rely on passive defence. And that's great - time to dedicate some focus on the Deadeye during the fight. > > > > > > > > > > > > Most blocks/reflects/projectile destruction are triggered actively by the player and are not passive. All I'm after is more active play on both sides of the fight: deadeye and the one marked. A deadeye not needing to pay attention to blocks/reflects when using their burst skill promotes braindead gameplay, gameplay that relies on the passive of Death's Judgment being innately unblockable. > > > > > > > > > > But there are a lot of other counterplay already available sorry, oi are complaining about a non issue, again go read above of all the counterplay and the massive obvious tells on the skill it’s self. > > > > > > > > > > It’s ok for skills to be able to counterplay other skills, it’s a fact of the game and why Blocks and Projectile hate exist and why there are allowed to be Unblockable skills to bypass those, it’s actually healthy design. > > > > > > > > > > So far all claims brought up in the OP have been debunked and the reason is very clear on why this thread was started, and fun fact it’s not DJ that’s the issue > > > > > > > > I've stated outright why this thread was started: Death's Judgment should be susceptible to the counterplay already existent in the game for projectiles. The other (reliable) counterplay currently available is dodging/evading or activating an invuln. Terrain and LOS are situational at best. > > > > > > > > The tell on Death's Judgment doesn't mean it should be unblockable or it would've been unblockable all along (and every hard-hitting skill in the game with an obvious tell would also be unblockable by that logic). > > > > > > Now it has Requirements that added more counter play that it didn’t have before so again it is perfectly fine, there is more than enough counterplay to it in game. > > > > > > Also all the claims brought in the OP to state why it shouldn’t be Unblockable have been debunked, so what’s the reason now it shouldn’t be Unblockable? > > > > > > Is it the highest base damage Unblockable skill in game? No > > > > > > Is it Spammable? Not even close > > > > > > Does it have a plethora of counterplay? Yes, tons. > > > > > > > > > If anything the Plethora Of Projectile hate and Blocks needs more counterplay and guess what here it is more counterplay to the amount of cancerous defense spam in game. > > > > > > > > > Again it’s perfectly clear where the issue lies and it’s not DJ > > > > 1) It is the hardest hitting unblockable skill in the game. You've mentioned Phoenix and Prime Light Beam as examples of skills that do more damage. They don't. > > 2) Malice builds much quicker than the old malice and the new M7 refunds most of the ini spent building that malice. Spam is very much rewarded by the new malice. > > 3) The addition of needing stealth for Death's Judgment didn't add any counterplay. A deadeye stealthing has always been a cue that Death's Judgment is likely incoming. Stealth still isn't a guarantee a Death's Judgment will follow. A deadeye's high access to stealth and malice lingering for 30 secs or until the shot gets taken will always mean the deadeye has more opportunities to fire Death's Judgment than most opponents have to dodge or evade. > > 4) There is already existent, active counterplay to blocks/reflects. Death's Judgment existing as innately unblockable is a passive (something the game does for you) on the damage side of things. > > 1) Your OP and main claim stated that DJ was the hardest hitting skill when not considering Malice, again that’s your claim not mine, it was debunked. Here’s your claim: > > > @"Shadowcat.2680" said: > > It doesn't even take any malice for Death's Judgment to be the hardest hitting innately unblockable skill in the game. > > > 2) DJ can’t be spammed since players have to break up the use of DJ by using quite a few other skills in between every successful DJ use, to have an effective DJ, again might want to look up the definition of spamming in regards to video games, this claim was debunked. > > 3) the addition of the Stealth requirement does add counterplay, it’s called Reveal skills, can’t use Stealth Attacks if you are Revealed and not in Stealth, funny how that works. And still has the plethora of other Counterplay available outside of that. > > 4) again as I stated because of the cancerous amount of blocks and Projectile hate it was needed for more counterplay to those types defense spam and here we have Anet ensuring Rifle Stealth Attack Stayed an Unblockable. > > Again all claims in the OP for why DJ needs to not be Unblockable have been debunked, and it’s crystal clear what the issue is, hint it’s not DJ. The best counterplay is body blocks....mesmers/rangers are the best at it...ever seen a DJ land with 3 illusions AND 2-3 phantasms out from a single mesmer? Yea, I haven't either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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