Consolidated Suggestions for DE Changes

[babazhook.6805]

> @"Gray.9041" said:

> > @"Arlowslol.1974" said:

> > Old mechanics is not an healthy mechanics . And DONT CALL THAT PVE PROBLEMS, it is number's problems .

>

> The problem isn't just the numbers. The issue is forcing Deadeye into stealth and malice changes without adequate consideration on the class. As well as destroying already low dps, rifle thief now feels awful to play (since stealth noticeably changed playstyle) and the cantrips, which where underwhelming anyway, are even less useful.

>

> The problems for PvE Deadeye before were low dps, no incentive to use skills other than auto and DJ, and a lack of meaningful support.

>

> The only one of those they "fixed" was the 111114 rotation, but considering the issues they've added, it hardly seems worth it.

 

I do not find the Cantrips underwhelming at all. Shadowmeld is great especially with all those reveals out there and has saved me many times. Binding shadows is just one of the most useful and power packed utilities we have out there. Shadowgust is comparable to Blinding Powder. Mercy is not only a stun break but can reset your steal at will and provides up to 14! ini. I do not know what more people would want.

[Doctor Hide.6345]

> @"babazhook.6805" said:

> > @"Gray.9041" said:

> > > @"Arlowslol.1974" said:

> > > Old mechanics is not an healthy mechanics . And DONT CALL THAT PVE PROBLEMS, it is number's problems .

> >

> > The problem isn't just the numbers. The issue is forcing Deadeye into stealth and malice changes without adequate consideration on the class. As well as destroying already low dps, rifle thief now feels awful to play (since stealth noticeably changed playstyle) and the cantrips, which where underwhelming anyway, are even less useful.

> >

> > The problems for PvE Deadeye before were low dps, no incentive to use skills other than auto and DJ, and a lack of meaningful support.

> >

> > The only one of those they "fixed" was the 111114 rotation, but considering the issues they've added, it hardly seems worth it.

>

> I do not find the Cantrips underwhelming at all. Shadowmeld is great especially with all those reveals out there and has saved me many times. Binding shadows is just one of the most useful and power packed utilities we have out there. Shadowgust is comparable to Blinding Powder. Mercy is not only a stun break but can reset your steal at will and provides up to 14! ini. I do not know what more people would want.

 

The problem is all those are used primarily for PvP while for PvE they are mostly meh because other skills are better suited for it. BV outshines shadowmeld due its CC and break bar power. Would rather take RFI and a signet over the others because they provide better passives and use when needed. Cantrips are meh for PvE.

[babazhook.6805]

> @"Doctor Hide.6345" said:

> > @"babazhook.6805" said:

> > > @"Gray.9041" said:

> > > > @"Arlowslol.1974" said:

> > > > Old mechanics is not an healthy mechanics . And DONT CALL THAT PVE PROBLEMS, it is number's problems .

> > >

> > > The problem isn't just the numbers. The issue is forcing Deadeye into stealth and malice changes without adequate consideration on the class. As well as destroying already low dps, rifle thief now feels awful to play (since stealth noticeably changed playstyle) and the cantrips, which where underwhelming anyway, are even less useful.

> > >

> > > The problems for PvE Deadeye before were low dps, no incentive to use skills other than auto and DJ, and a lack of meaningful support.

> > >

> > > The only one of those they "fixed" was the 111114 rotation, but considering the issues they've added, it hardly seems worth it.

> >

> > I do not find the Cantrips underwhelming at all. Shadowmeld is great especially with all those reveals out there and has saved me many times. Binding shadows is just one of the most useful and power packed utilities we have out there. Shadowgust is comparable to Blinding Powder. Mercy is not only a stun break but can reset your steal at will and provides up to 14! ini. I do not know what more people would want.

>

> The problem is all those are used primarily for PvP while for PvE they are mostly meh because other skills are better suited for it. BV outshines shadowmeld due its CC and break bar power. Would rather take RFI and a signet over the others because they provide better passives and use when needed. Cantrips are meh for PvE.

 

Why would you take RFI over mercy? I do not do fractals or raids but am curious. As to break bars is not shadowgust of use there and or Binding? Shadowgust dioes have launch. Binding has Immob and knockdown (along with the poison vuln and boon theft)

[Doctor Hide.6345]

> @"babazhook.6805" said:

> > @"Doctor Hide.6345" said:

> > > @"babazhook.6805" said:

> > > > @"Gray.9041" said:

> > > > > @"Arlowslol.1974" said:

> > > > > Old mechanics is not an healthy mechanics . And DONT CALL THAT PVE PROBLEMS, it is number's problems .

> > > >

> > > > The problem isn't just the numbers. The issue is forcing Deadeye into stealth and malice changes without adequate consideration on the class. As well as destroying already low dps, rifle thief now feels awful to play (since stealth noticeably changed playstyle) and the cantrips, which where underwhelming anyway, are even less useful.

> > > >

> > > > The problems for PvE Deadeye before were low dps, no incentive to use skills other than auto and DJ, and a lack of meaningful support.

> > > >

> > > > The only one of those they "fixed" was the 111114 rotation, but considering the issues they've added, it hardly seems worth it.

> > >

> > > I do not find the Cantrips underwhelming at all. Shadowmeld is great especially with all those reveals out there and has saved me many times. Binding shadows is just one of the most useful and power packed utilities we have out there. Shadowgust is comparable to Blinding Powder. Mercy is not only a stun break but can reset your steal at will and provides up to 14! ini. I do not know what more people would want.

> >

> > The problem is all those are used primarily for PvP while for PvE they are mostly meh because other skills are better suited for it. BV outshines shadowmeld due its CC and break bar power. Would rather take RFI and a signet over the others because they provide better passives and use when needed. Cantrips are meh for PvE.

>

> Why would you take RFI over mercy? I do not do fractals or raids but am curious. As to break bars is not shadowgust of use there and or Binding? Shadowgust dioes have launch. Binding has Immob and knockdown (along with the poison vuln and boon theft)

 

The extra dodge is a life saver for RFI over Mercy which only just resets steal which is already on a low cd. They can be used, but I found other skills have better uses for me over shadowgust and binding. I just find they are generally more PvP oriented in their uses over PvE when I did it. Like I said earlier, I don't play anymore due to how they treat Thief prof like a second class prof due to Thiefs low damage output. The PvE numbers we output is not acceptable when other prof do more damage than us when we are supposed to be dps prof. (No, using those cantrips will not make the rifle or P/P suddenly jump to 36k damage range.)

[babazhook.6805]

> @"Doctor Hide.6345" said:

> > @"babazhook.6805" said:

> > > @"Doctor Hide.6345" said:

> > > > @"babazhook.6805" said:

> > > > > @"Gray.9041" said:

> > > > > > @"Arlowslol.1974" said:

> > > > > > Old mechanics is not an healthy mechanics . And DONT CALL THAT PVE PROBLEMS, it is number's problems .

> > > > >

> > > > > The problem isn't just the numbers. The issue is forcing Deadeye into stealth and malice changes without adequate consideration on the class. As well as destroying already low dps, rifle thief now feels awful to play (since stealth noticeably changed playstyle) and the cantrips, which where underwhelming anyway, are even less useful.

> > > > >

> > > > > The problems for PvE Deadeye before were low dps, no incentive to use skills other than auto and DJ, and a lack of meaningful support.

> > > > >

> > > > > The only one of those they "fixed" was the 111114 rotation, but considering the issues they've added, it hardly seems worth it.

> > > >

> > > > I do not find the Cantrips underwhelming at all. Shadowmeld is great especially with all those reveals out there and has saved me many times. Binding shadows is just one of the most useful and power packed utilities we have out there. Shadowgust is comparable to Blinding Powder. Mercy is not only a stun break but can reset your steal at will and provides up to 14! ini. I do not know what more people would want.

> > >

> > > The problem is all those are used primarily for PvP while for PvE they are mostly meh because other skills are better suited for it. BV outshines shadowmeld due its CC and break bar power. Would rather take RFI and a signet over the others because they provide better passives and use when needed. Cantrips are meh for PvE.

> >

> > Why would you take RFI over mercy? I do not do fractals or raids but am curious. As to break bars is not shadowgust of use there and or Binding? Shadowgust dioes have launch. Binding has Immob and knockdown (along with the poison vuln and boon theft)

>

> The extra dodge is a life saver for RFI over Mercy which only just resets steal which is already on a low cd. They can be used, but I found other skills have better uses for me over shadowgust and binding. I just find they are generally more PvP oriented in their uses over PvE when I did it. Like I said earlier, I don't play anymore due to how they treat Thief prof like a second class prof due to Thiefs low damage output. The PvE numbers we output is not acceptable when other prof do more damage than us when we are supposed to be dps prof. (No, using those cantrips will not make the rifle or P/P suddenly jump to 36k damage range.)

 

Mercy is a stun break, resets steal and gives back 2 ini for every stack of malice. I would think if in DE spec using mercy can fuel a whole lot of INI allowing more attacks.

[Doctor Hide.6345]

> @"babazhook.6805" said:

> > @"Doctor Hide.6345" said:

> > > @"babazhook.6805" said:

> > > > @"Doctor Hide.6345" said:

> > > > > @"babazhook.6805" said:

> > > > > > @"Gray.9041" said:

> > > > > > > @"Arlowslol.1974" said:

> > > > > > > Old mechanics is not an healthy mechanics . And DONT CALL THAT PVE PROBLEMS, it is number's problems .

> > > > > >

> > > > > > The problem isn't just the numbers. The issue is forcing Deadeye into stealth and malice changes without adequate consideration on the class. As well as destroying already low dps, rifle thief now feels awful to play (since stealth noticeably changed playstyle) and the cantrips, which where underwhelming anyway, are even less useful.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > The problems for PvE Deadeye before were low dps, no incentive to use skills other than auto and DJ, and a lack of meaningful support.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > The only one of those they "fixed" was the 111114 rotation, but considering the issues they've added, it hardly seems worth it.

> > > > >

> > > > > I do not find the Cantrips underwhelming at all. Shadowmeld is great especially with all those reveals out there and has saved me many times. Binding shadows is just one of the most useful and power packed utilities we have out there. Shadowgust is comparable to Blinding Powder. Mercy is not only a stun break but can reset your steal at will and provides up to 14! ini. I do not know what more people would want.

> > > >

> > > > The problem is all those are used primarily for PvP while for PvE they are mostly meh because other skills are better suited for it. BV outshines shadowmeld due its CC and break bar power. Would rather take RFI and a signet over the others because they provide better passives and use when needed. Cantrips are meh for PvE.

> > >

> > > Why would you take RFI over mercy? I do not do fractals or raids but am curious. As to break bars is not shadowgust of use there and or Binding? Shadowgust dioes have launch. Binding has Immob and knockdown (along with the poison vuln and boon theft)

> >

> > The extra dodge is a life saver for RFI over Mercy which only just resets steal which is already on a low cd. They can be used, but I found other skills have better uses for me over shadowgust and binding. I just find they are generally more PvP oriented in their uses over PvE when I did it. Like I said earlier, I don't play anymore due to how they treat Thief prof like a second class prof due to Thiefs low damage output. The PvE numbers we output is not acceptable when other prof do more damage than us when we are supposed to be dps prof. (No, using those cantrips will not make the rifle or P/P suddenly jump to 36k damage range.)

>

> Mercy is a stun break, resets steal and gives back 2 ini for every stack of malice. I would think if in DE spec using mercy can fuel a whole lot of INI allowing more attacks.

 

Not enough to beat other prof though dps wise. Even with that it is still pitiful damage not even getting close to others. The stun break for it is not as important really when RFI does the same while also allowing you to survive longer to dodge the aoes. You might have a point if the actual weapon skills did more damage, but as it currently stands the ini returned doesn't increase the dps to the 36k range.

[babazhook.6805]

> @"Doctor Hide.6345" said:

> > @"babazhook.6805" said:

> > > @"Doctor Hide.6345" said:

> > > > @"babazhook.6805" said:

> > > > > @"Doctor Hide.6345" said:

> > > > > > @"babazhook.6805" said:

> > > > > > > @"Gray.9041" said:

> > > > > > > > @"Arlowslol.1974" said:

> > > > > > > > Old mechanics is not an healthy mechanics . And DONT CALL THAT PVE PROBLEMS, it is number's problems .

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > The problem isn't just the numbers. The issue is forcing Deadeye into stealth and malice changes without adequate consideration on the class. As well as destroying already low dps, rifle thief now feels awful to play (since stealth noticeably changed playstyle) and the cantrips, which where underwhelming anyway, are even less useful.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > The problems for PvE Deadeye before were low dps, no incentive to use skills other than auto and DJ, and a lack of meaningful support.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > The only one of those they "fixed" was the 111114 rotation, but considering the issues they've added, it hardly seems worth it.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I do not find the Cantrips underwhelming at all. Shadowmeld is great especially with all those reveals out there and has saved me many times. Binding shadows is just one of the most useful and power packed utilities we have out there. Shadowgust is comparable to Blinding Powder. Mercy is not only a stun break but can reset your steal at will and provides up to 14! ini. I do not know what more people would want.

> > > > >

> > > > > The problem is all those are used primarily for PvP while for PvE they are mostly meh because other skills are better suited for it. BV outshines shadowmeld due its CC and break bar power. Would rather take RFI and a signet over the others because they provide better passives and use when needed. Cantrips are meh for PvE.

> > > >

> > > > Why would you take RFI over mercy? I do not do fractals or raids but am curious. As to break bars is not shadowgust of use there and or Binding? Shadowgust dioes have launch. Binding has Immob and knockdown (along with the poison vuln and boon theft)

> > >

> > > The extra dodge is a life saver for RFI over Mercy which only just resets steal which is already on a low cd. They can be used, but I found other skills have better uses for me over shadowgust and binding. I just find they are generally more PvP oriented in their uses over PvE when I did it. Like I said earlier, I don't play anymore due to how they treat Thief prof like a second class prof due to Thiefs low damage output. The PvE numbers we output is not acceptable when other prof do more damage than us when we are supposed to be dps prof. (No, using those cantrips will not make the rifle or P/P suddenly jump to 36k damage range.)

> >

> > Mercy is a stun break, resets steal and gives back 2 ini for every stack of malice. I would think if in DE spec using mercy can fuel a whole lot of INI allowing more attacks.

>

> Not enough to beat other prof though dps wise. Even with that it is still pitiful damage not even getting close to others. The stun break for it is not as important really when RFI does the same while also allowing you to survive longer to dodge the aoes. You might have a point if the actual weapon skills did more damage, but as it currently stands the ini returned doesn't increase the dps to the 36k range.

 

Lets just say that I feel the attempt to make the traits/skills and utilities fir a given class across ALL the game modes is the heart of the problem here. You simply can not design skills and traits and utilities around Scripted AIS with mega tens of thousands of hit points and expect them to work the same way when it player on player where the hp ppol a fraction of those bosses.

 

I really do not think balance will ever be addressed properly as long as they try and do that. DPS is pretty well everything when facing 2 million hit points. It matters much less when an enemy has 15000.

[Specialka.7290]

The issue I have with cantrips is that I feel they shoud have been F3/F4/F5 etc...

[Doctor Hide.6345]

> @"babazhook.6805" said:

> > @"Doctor Hide.6345" said:

> > > @"babazhook.6805" said:

> > > > @"Doctor Hide.6345" said:

> > > > > @"babazhook.6805" said:

> > > > > > @"Doctor Hide.6345" said:

> > > > > > > @"babazhook.6805" said:

> > > > > > > > @"Gray.9041" said:

> > > > > > > > > @"Arlowslol.1974" said:

> > > > > > > > > Old mechanics is not an healthy mechanics . And DONT CALL THAT PVE PROBLEMS, it is number's problems .

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > The problem isn't just the numbers. The issue is forcing Deadeye into stealth and malice changes without adequate consideration on the class. As well as destroying already low dps, rifle thief now feels awful to play (since stealth noticeably changed playstyle) and the cantrips, which where underwhelming anyway, are even less useful.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > The problems for PvE Deadeye before were low dps, no incentive to use skills other than auto and DJ, and a lack of meaningful support.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > The only one of those they "fixed" was the 111114 rotation, but considering the issues they've added, it hardly seems worth it.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > I do not find the Cantrips underwhelming at all. Shadowmeld is great especially with all those reveals out there and has saved me many times. Binding shadows is just one of the most useful and power packed utilities we have out there. Shadowgust is comparable to Blinding Powder. Mercy is not only a stun break but can reset your steal at will and provides up to 14! ini. I do not know what more people would want.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > The problem is all those are used primarily for PvP while for PvE they are mostly meh because other skills are better suited for it. BV outshines shadowmeld due its CC and break bar power. Would rather take RFI and a signet over the others because they provide better passives and use when needed. Cantrips are meh for PvE.

> > > > >

> > > > > Why would you take RFI over mercy? I do not do fractals or raids but am curious. As to break bars is not shadowgust of use there and or Binding? Shadowgust dioes have launch. Binding has Immob and knockdown (along with the poison vuln and boon theft)

> > > >

> > > > The extra dodge is a life saver for RFI over Mercy which only just resets steal which is already on a low cd. They can be used, but I found other skills have better uses for me over shadowgust and binding. I just find they are generally more PvP oriented in their uses over PvE when I did it. Like I said earlier, I don't play anymore due to how they treat Thief prof like a second class prof due to Thiefs low damage output. The PvE numbers we output is not acceptable when other prof do more damage than us when we are supposed to be dps prof. (No, using those cantrips will not make the rifle or P/P suddenly jump to 36k damage range.)

> > >

> > > Mercy is a stun break, resets steal and gives back 2 ini for every stack of malice. I would think if in DE spec using mercy can fuel a whole lot of INI allowing more attacks.

> >

> > Not enough to beat other prof though dps wise. Even with that it is still pitiful damage not even getting close to others. The stun break for it is not as important really when RFI does the same while also allowing you to survive longer to dodge the aoes. You might have a point if the actual weapon skills did more damage, but as it currently stands the ini returned doesn't increase the dps to the 36k range.

>

> Lets just say that I feel the attempt to make the traits/skills and utilities fir a given class across ALL the game modes is the heart of the problem here. You simply can not design skills and traits and utilities around Scripted AIS with mega tens of thousands of hit points and expect them to work the same way when it player on player where the hp ppol a fraction of those bosses.

>

> I really do not think balance will ever be addressed properly as long as they try and do that. DPS is pretty well everything when facing 2 million hit points. It matters much less when an enemy has 15000.

 

That is why I am of the firm belief that split balancing between PvE and PvP is the only true answer to make Thief good in PvE. The PvP side of Thief is holding it back from its true potential.

[Gray.9041]

> @"babazhook.6805" said:

> I do not find the Cantrips underwhelming at all. Shadowmeld is great especially with all those reveals out there and has saved me many times. Binding shadows is just one of the most useful and power packed utilities we have out there. Shadowgust is comparable to Blinding Powder. Mercy is not only a stun break but can reset your steal at will and provides up to 14! ini. I do not know what more people would want.

 

I'm going to take a guess and say you mostly play competetive gamemodes (could be wrong, admittedly)

 

reveal isn't a huge issue in PvE, because stealth isn't any good in PvE. wanna skip that champ spider at the rich plat vein in Sparkfly, or get past some mobs in Arah? sure. Raids, Fractals? no. no use, because everything spams AoEs, or otherwise just doesn't benefit from stealth at all.

 

Binding shadows, again, could be good in PvP, but is meh in PvP. there are better damage skills, better CC skills, and much better boonrip. Shadow gust, again, is just CC and stealth, the former isn't unique and the latter isn't useful. Mercy, again, sounds nice for PvP, but in PvE, it's just a straight DPS loss.

 

The problem is that all Deadeye's "strengths" were practically useless in endgame PvE (Stealth, range), while the downsides are even more crucial (no cleave, no mobility, poor dps)

 

 

[saerni.2584]

Updating the OP after a long weekend.

 

I think we are most of the way as far as issues, bugs and suggestions.

 

I’ll be moving back over to the theory crafting thread looking for builds people are using and workarounds for issues people have identified.

[DemonSeed.3528]

I wouldn't mind a stunbreak/evade on deaths retreat. Something really needs to take place over kneel rifle 4 though. Like dj hehe. I wish cb was for the stealth attack. These changes would be something I can chew on and would make rifle stand out amongst the other weapon choices.

[kash.9213]

> @"DemonSeed.3528" said:

> I wouldn't mind a stunbreak/evade on deaths retreat. Something really needs to take place over kneel rifle 4 though. Like dj hehe. I wish cb was for the stealth attack. These changes would be something I can chew on and would make rifle stand out amongst the other weapon choices.

 

D Retreat is already a crutch for me I think a stunbreak could end up being op, evade might not be more of a factor but still could push it. I agree with the rest but I think the majority of the vocal posters here are in favor of dodging for DJ now so it's just not likely to happen at this point. I actually don't mind Snipers Cover except when I'm not careful I might swing that footprint around to the wrong side facing the wrong way which looks really dumb by the way, I'd rather it it gave full perimeter or at least half moon around me in the direction I'm facing automatically at rifle 4 press and then turn into an option to blast area or something.

[Turk.5460]

> @"saerni.2584" said:

> Bugs

 

> Deadeye’s Mark

 

> Marking a summon does not refresh Mark when the summon is killed/despawned.

 

What constitutes a summon in this scenario? Because killing mesmer clones and necromancer minions refresh the mark from what I've seen. The only confirmation I can give is that ranger pets do not refresh the mark when their hp is depleted.

[DemonSeed.3528]

> @"kash.9213" said:

> > @"DemonSeed.3528" said:

> > I wouldn't mind a stunbreak/evade on deaths retreat. Something really needs to take place over kneel rifle 4 though. Like dj hehe. I wish cb was for the stealth attack. These changes would be something I can chew on and would make rifle stand out amongst the other weapon choices.

>

> D Retreat is already a crutch for me I think a stunbreak could end up being op, evade might not be more of a factor but still could push it. I agree with the rest but I think the majority of the vocal posters here are in favor of dodging for DJ now so it's just not likely to happen at this point. I actually don't mind Snipers Cover except when I'm not careful I might swing that footprint around to the wrong side facing the wrong way which looks really dumb by the way, I'd rather it it gave full perimeter or at least half moon around me in the direction I'm facing automatically at rifle 4 press and then turn into an option to blast area or something.

 

I'm getting a lot of "you need a ground target selected" when I try using rifle 4 smoke field on top of walls, did you experience any of this? When you kneel you can usually place it when the gauge is near 90% and this always usually works for me in open ground but there's something wrong with using them around walls.

[saerni.2584]

> @"Turk.5460" said:

> > @"saerni.2584" said:

> > Bugs

>

> > Deadeye’s Mark

>

> > Marking a summon does not refresh Mark when the summon is killed/despawned.

>

> What constitutes a summon in this scenario? Because killing mesmer clones and necromancer minions refresh the mark from what I've seen. The only confirmation I can give is that ranger pets do not refresh the mark when their hp is depleted.

 

Yeah I’m going to edit this further. I’ve had the same experience re: clones so it’s a somewhat isolated issue.

[saerni.2584]

> @"DemonSeed.3528" said:

> > @"kash.9213" said:

> > > @"DemonSeed.3528" said:

> > > I wouldn't mind a stunbreak/evade on deaths retreat. Something really needs to take place over kneel rifle 4 though. Like dj hehe. I wish cb was for the stealth attack. These changes would be something I can chew on and would make rifle stand out amongst the other weapon choices.

> >

> > D Retreat is already a crutch for me I think a stunbreak could end up being op, evade might not be more of a factor but still could push it. I agree with the rest but I think the majority of the vocal posters here are in favor of dodging for DJ now so it's just not likely to happen at this point. I actually don't mind Snipers Cover except when I'm not careful I might swing that footprint around to the wrong side facing the wrong way which looks really dumb by the way, I'd rather it it gave full perimeter or at least half moon around me in the direction I'm facing automatically at rifle 4 press and then turn into an option to blast area or something.

>

> I'm getting a lot of "you need a ground target selected" when I try using rifle 4 smoke field on top of walls, did you experience any of this? When you kneel you can usually place it when the gauge is near 90% and this always usually works for me in open ground but there's something wrong with using them around walls.

 

Is that WvW walls or walls in general? If it’s only WvW does that include the non-targetable versions?

[DemonSeed.3528]

> @"saerni.2584" said:

> > @"DemonSeed.3528" said:

> > > @"kash.9213" said:

> > > > @"DemonSeed.3528" said:

> > > > I wouldn't mind a stunbreak/evade on deaths retreat. Something really needs to take place over kneel rifle 4 though. Like dj hehe. I wish cb was for the stealth attack. These changes would be something I can chew on and would make rifle stand out amongst the other weapon choices.

> > >

> > > D Retreat is already a crutch for me I think a stunbreak could end up being op, evade might not be more of a factor but still could push it. I agree with the rest but I think the majority of the vocal posters here are in favor of dodging for DJ now so it's just not likely to happen at this point. I actually don't mind Snipers Cover except when I'm not careful I might swing that footprint around to the wrong side facing the wrong way which looks really dumb by the way, I'd rather it it gave full perimeter or at least half moon around me in the direction I'm facing automatically at rifle 4 press and then turn into an option to blast area or something.

> >

> > I'm getting a lot of "you need a ground target selected" when I try using rifle 4 smoke field on top of walls, did you experience any of this? When you kneel you can usually place it when the gauge is near 90% and this always usually works for me in open ground but there's something wrong with using them around walls.

>

> Is that WvW walls or walls in general? If it’s only WvW does that include the non-targetable versions?

 

Wvw walls like in sm or towers [but I also know sm in general has problems with shadow step and other tp like sbow 5, especially on the border of the wooden part on inner ground where there is changes in the ground material]. The problem on the rifle 4 smoke field happens also if I am off center on the wall - maybe it's all this lag I have, but it seems to work fine on open ground.

[kash.9213]

> @"DemonSeed.3528" said:

> > @"kash.9213" said:

> > > @"DemonSeed.3528" said:

> > > I wouldn't mind a stunbreak/evade on deaths retreat. Something really needs to take place over kneel rifle 4 though. Like dj hehe. I wish cb was for the stealth attack. These changes would be something I can chew on and would make rifle stand out amongst the other weapon choices.

> >

> > D Retreat is already a crutch for me I think a stunbreak could end up being op, evade might not be more of a factor but still could push it. I agree with the rest but I think the majority of the vocal posters here are in favor of dodging for DJ now so it's just not likely to happen at this point. I actually don't mind Snipers Cover except when I'm not careful I might swing that footprint around to the wrong side facing the wrong way which looks really dumb by the way, I'd rather it it gave full perimeter or at least half moon around me in the direction I'm facing automatically at rifle 4 press and then turn into an option to blast area or something.

>

> I'm getting a lot of "you need a ground target selected" when I try using rifle 4 smoke field on top of walls, did you experience any of this? When you kneel you can usually place it when the gauge is near 90% and this always usually works for me in open ground but there's something wrong with using them around walls.

 

I've had to get up and scoot back or to the side a bit a few times now from that error on walls and in the sm spots where I usually can't Shadowstep or Deaths Retreat.

[MUDse.7623]

> @"kash.9213" said:

> > @"DemonSeed.3528" said:

> > I wouldn't mind a stunbreak/evade on deaths retreat. Something really needs to take place over kneel rifle 4 though. Like dj hehe. I wish cb was for the stealth attack. These changes would be something I can chew on and would make rifle stand out amongst the other weapon choices.

>

> D Retreat is already a crutch for me I think a stunbreak could end up being op, evade might not be more of a factor but still could push it. I agree with the rest but I think **the majority of the vocal posters here are in favor of dodging for DJ now** so it's just not likely to happen at this point. I actually don't mind Snipers Cover except when I'm not careful I might swing that footprint around to the wrong side facing the wrong way which looks really dumb by the way, I'd rather it it gave full perimeter or at least half moon around me in the direction I'm facing automatically at rifle 4 press and then turn into an option to blast area or something.

 

are you sure it is in favor of dodging for DJ or dodging for stealth? because while i like the stealth on dodge i would prefer CB as stealth attack , DJ on kneel 4 would be nice but i dont need it at all atm.

[kash.9213]

> @"MUDse.7623" said:

> > @"kash.9213" said:

> > > @"DemonSeed.3528" said:

> > > I wouldn't mind a stunbreak/evade on deaths retreat. Something really needs to take place over kneel rifle 4 though. Like dj hehe. I wish cb was for the stealth attack. These changes would be something I can chew on and would make rifle stand out amongst the other weapon choices.

> >

> > D Retreat is already a crutch for me I think a stunbreak could end up being op, evade might not be more of a factor but still could push it. I agree with the rest but I think **the majority of the vocal posters here are in favor of dodging for DJ now** so it's just not likely to happen at this point. I actually don't mind Snipers Cover except when I'm not careful I might swing that footprint around to the wrong side facing the wrong way which looks really dumb by the way, I'd rather it it gave full perimeter or at least half moon around me in the direction I'm facing automatically at rifle 4 press and then turn into an option to blast area or something.

>

> are you sure it is in favor of dodging for DJ or dodging for stealth? because while i like the stealth on dodge i would prefer CB as stealth attack , DJ on kneel 4 would be nice but i dont need it at all atm.

 

Ya, I should have put stealth instead of DJ. I wouldn't even care either if I could blast that smoke field with rifle, give it ammo cooldown even. If not that then let me stay still if I dodge while in Kneel.

[MUDse.7623]

there is one more rather late request i have. change the order of the effects from binding shadows. currently it applies first the hit and conditions then the boon rip and then knockdown. **i would like the boon rip to be first with aegis as priority**, because like it is now it can be avoided with a simple aegis wich is not getting stripped but consumed to avoid the skill while you still knock people down with stability for example. the skill should remain blockable with block skills but aegis should be removed by that skills boonrip before the hit because there is a ton of aegis flying around.

[saerni.2584]

> @"MUDse.7623" said:

> there is one more rather late request i have. change the order of the effects from binding shadows. currently it applies first the hit and conditions then the boon rip and then knockdown. **i would like the boon rip to be first with aegis as priority**, because like it is now it can be avoided with a simple aegis wich is not getting stripped but consumed to avoid the skill while you still knock people down with stability for example. the skill should remain blockable with block skills but aegis should be removed by that skills boonrip before the hit because there is a ton of aegis flying around.

 

Updated the OP with this.

 

[MUDse.7623]

several times since the rework i felt like i was able to dodge while immobilized when kneeling tho i am pretty sure it wasnt possbile before, i thought it was lag. so i just asked an opponent to immobilize me to try a bit and i really am able to dodge with immob while kneeling :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5crr1yILXQc

 

now was that possible before the rework and i didnt notice? is it a new feature added as we do not have soft cc cleanse on free action ? or is it a bug?

i am sure there is nothing about it in the patch notes from the rework.

 

if it is a bug please add it to that list. considering how strong uninterruptable stealth access with dodges is, i dont think they made it intentionally even stronger with ignoring immobilize, but i could be wrong and it is like you are already immobilized by kneeling so further immobilze doesnt affect you but then they could aswell make us immune to it during kneel so it is obvious for our opponents.

 

[DemonSeed.3528]

Hmm, my guess is that kneeling in itself was already an immob like you mentioned, so adding that to an already immobilized kneel wouldn't make sense - I think this was actually done on purpose because getting out of the kneel had already been troublesome for many. Maybe they could add a footnote to the tooltip that it ignores immob and can dodge freely while kneeling.