GrubySzymek.1362 Posted May 15, 2018 Share Posted May 15, 2018 > @"Tommo Chocolate.5870" said: > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > @"Tommo Chocolate.5870" said: > > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > > @"Just a flesh wound.3589" said: > > > > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > > > > @"Just a flesh wound.3589" said: > > > > > > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Just a flesh wound.3589" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Just a flesh wound.3589" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Just a flesh wound.3589" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Just a flesh wound.3589" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I’m curious though as to why someone would object to a nerf to the dismount in low level zones. Do the objectors play in those zones so very often that it’s important to them or do they have trouble killing things and need the dismount skill? If they don’t play in those low maps frequently or don’t need the skill to kill then I’m not sure how it affects them. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I already explained in my first post why I want this to stay as it is. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Just a flesh wound.3589" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Perhaps it’s veterans who are speaking out because new players don’t realize that there is a forum (and f2p can’t post on the forums at all). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't think anyone here has been voted as an ambasador for new players. Speak for yourself please. Veterans shouldn't use "new player" card as they are not new players anymore. New players who paid for the game can come here and complain if they really feel like it. As for F2P players... you know... I don't care. They play for free and for me they have no right to affect the game for those who paid. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The issue that's presented here is not really an issue. Things like this happened before mounts as 80s are already strong enough to 1 shot low lvl mobs. Core Tyria is mostly empty outside of daily map event day. It's just one map, for one day. I think everyone can survive it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Don't remove a feature from players who like it. If you don't like it, don't use it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It appears you have forgotten that a core principle of this game is the downscaling of players to match the map level. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It appears you are jumping to conclusions too quickly. I adressed downscaling and game itself proves to you that it's intended for max level, fully equipped characters to be significantly stronger than low-lvl/new characters. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That has nothing to do with the argument that the dismount in low level maps is not scaling properly. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > How do you know this? Maybe it's intended. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And maybe it’s not.... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And that’s why we’re discussing it. Veterans are seeing a concern where low level players without mounts are having their fun affected in the only maps that they can play in and we are bringing it to ANet’s attention so they can look at it and adjust if necessary. If it turns out we are wrong then there will be no nerf and objectors can dismount in noob maps and kill mobs to their heart’s content. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I’m not sure why someone would object, unless they play extensively in these zones and it would impact their playstyle. If they don’t play in the noob zones they’ll never encounter a dismount nerf and it won’t affect them. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Until I see a statement from devs declaring something a bug, I consider everything that is in game as intended mechanic, tested and released by devs consciously. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Because bugs, etc have never been fixed/modified months later? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Until it's declared as bug or fixed, there is no justification for you to say it's bugged or unintended. You are only a player. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No we can’t say that it is, but we can bring up the possibility, say why we think it is and suggest a solution. That is, after all, the reason why ANet put the official forums in place and why they read the threads. They want to know our concerns and about any problems we feel is in the game. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That's the level of assumption I'm not going into. Let's stay on the level of facts, thank you. > > > > > > > > > > Here’s some facts. ANet, which is a business, is paying Moderators salaries, Gaile’s wages, forum support personal, the upkeep on the forum as well as the paying for use of the Vanilla forum setup. I do believe we can say that they aren’t spending this money for grins and giggles but for business reasons, which is input from their customers about their product. > > > > > > > > You are allowed to say you don't like mounts skill current power, but you, as a player, have no authority to declare it a bug. > > > > > > Sometimes when I mount up, my mount doesn't appear on screen and my character looks like they're stuck in the ground for a couple of seconds. I've never seen an official acknowledgement that that's a bug (admittedly I've never looked for one). Should I assume it's intended functionality? > > > > It's not a bug. It's the same as players loading as grey placeholders only to change later into fully skinned fashion monstrosities. Game uses basic model placeholders so you can load into map faster while textures are being replaced later in the process. > > You missed my point - having dev confirmation isn't the only valid reason to think something is a bug. In fact, the whole bug report feature depends on players identifying things that are likely to be bugs. You were claiming that players should consider everything to be intended functionality until given an official statement saying otherwise, which would suggest that they should only ever report bugs that the devs already know about and have commented on. > > By the way, I'm pretty sure the mount display thing is a bug. It's not just not loading the mount, or loading a placeholder model - it's loading the correct mounted player character model (at the wrong height) and causing the camera to freeze for a couple of seconds. But even if it isn't a bug, that's irrelevant - the point is that it would be reasonable for me to think it is a bug, even though I don't have an official statement saying so. I know what you mean and I adressed it wording my previous message appropriatly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sorudo.9054 Posted May 15, 2018 Share Posted May 15, 2018 > @"Eme.2018" said: > @"Specialka.7290" said: > > In that case, low lvl players can't tag mobs fast enough before mounted players kill them. > The source of the problem itself (if we assume that such problem exists) are not the mounts though. > > > @"sorudo.9054" said: > > and low levels can do the same with just a mount, not just high levels. > But this is not supposed to be a problem of low levels, it is supposed to be a problem of the newer players. I mentioned high level players not high level characters. > i am playing GW2 for 6 years and i think it's a problem, i even had a time that i could not even tag a single enemy in an event, the event didn't even see me even while i started the darn event. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Imperadordf.2687 Posted May 15, 2018 Share Posted May 15, 2018 > @"Eme.2018" said: > > @"Imperadordf.2687" said: > > The problem is it harms the low-level players and new players. The scaling needs to be adjusted. I have mounts but I just don't use their skills while doing events. It sucks the fun out of the game for new players really. > > It doesn't harm anyone; high level players can "wipe out entire mobs" with or without mounts. > > There is a huge gap between "demolishing a group of mobs by charging without even losing pace" and "casting a skill, then hitting it, killing some mobs". Most AoE skills target limit : 5 mobs Mount skills target limit : 10 mobs So yeah, it prevents a lot of new players from tagging a lot of mobs. Take "Bandits attacking Ranch" event for example. I've seen a lot of mounted people just one shotting all the mobs and low-levels were just trying to catch up with them and trying to hit some of the mobs. Mounts shouldn't deal that much damage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eme.2018 Posted May 15, 2018 Share Posted May 15, 2018 > @"Imperadordf.2687" said: > There is a huge gap between "demolishing a group of mobs by charging without even losing pace" and "casting a skill, then hitting it, killing some mobs". > > Most AoE skills target limit : 5 mobs > Mount skills target limit : 10 mobs > > So yeah, it prevents a lot of new players from tagging a lot of mobs. Take "Bandits attacking Ranch" event for example. I've seen a lot of mounted people just one shotting all the mobs and low-levels were just trying to catch up with them and trying to hit some of the mobs. Mounts shouldn't deal that much damage. and > @"sorudo.9054" said: > i am playing GW2 for 6 years and i think it's a problem, i even had a time that i could not even tag a single enemy in an event, the event didn't even see me even while i started the darn event. Okey, maybe the mounts are part of the problem but not the problem itself. What you are describing (not being able to tag and so on) has been a _problem_ (?) since years and mounts seem to only be the "scapegoat" (maybe an overstatement but something along these lines). Just saying the problem won't seize to exist if you nerf the mount damage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sorudo.9054 Posted May 15, 2018 Share Posted May 15, 2018 > @"Eme.2018" said: > > @"Imperadordf.2687" said: > > There is a huge gap between "demolishing a group of mobs by charging without even losing pace" and "casting a skill, then hitting it, killing some mobs". > > > > Most AoE skills target limit : 5 mobs > > Mount skills target limit : 10 mobs > > > > So yeah, it prevents a lot of new players from tagging a lot of mobs. Take "Bandits attacking Ranch" event for example. I've seen a lot of mounted people just one shotting all the mobs and low-levels were just trying to catch up with them and trying to hit some of the mobs. Mounts shouldn't deal that much damage. > and > > @"sorudo.9054" said: > > i am playing GW2 for 6 years and i think it's a problem, i even had a time that i could not even tag a single enemy in an event, the event didn't even see me even while i started the darn event. > > Okey, maybe the mounts are part of the problem but not the problem itself. What you are describing (not being able to tag and so on) has been a _problem_ (?) > since years and mounts seem to only be the "scapegoat" (maybe an overstatement but something along these lines). Just saying the problem won't seize to exist if you nerf the mount damage. > no, it doesn't seize to exist but it does lower the frustration by quite a large margin, if the damage is just as much as your weapon's basic attack then the problem is already solved in the long shot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eme.2018 Posted May 15, 2018 Share Posted May 15, 2018 > @"sorudo.9054" said: >[..] it does lower the frustration by quite a large margin[...] Sure, can't argue feelings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Imperadordf.2687 Posted May 15, 2018 Share Posted May 15, 2018 > @"Eme.2018" said: > > @"Imperadordf.2687" said: > > There is a huge gap between "demolishing a group of mobs by charging without even losing pace" and "casting a skill, then hitting it, killing some mobs". > > > > Most AoE skills target limit : 5 mobs > > Mount skills target limit : 10 mobs > > > > So yeah, it prevents a lot of new players from tagging a lot of mobs. Take "Bandits attacking Ranch" event for example. I've seen a lot of mounted people just one shotting all the mobs and low-levels were just trying to catch up with them and trying to hit some of the mobs. Mounts shouldn't deal that much damage. > and > > @"sorudo.9054" said: > > i am playing GW2 for 6 years and i think it's a problem, i even had a time that i could not even tag a single enemy in an event, the event didn't even see me even while i started the darn event. > > Okey, maybe the mounts are part of the problem but not the problem itself. What you are describing (not being able to tag and so on) has been a _problem_ (?) > since years and mounts seem to only be the "scapegoat" (maybe an overstatement but something along these lines). Just saying the problem won't seize to exist if you nerf the mount damage. Well the problem did exist for years but people still could tag some mobs without getting frustrated. Now most of them; - Get outrun by mounted players - Can't hit the mobs at all - Just watch the mounted people destroy all the mobs around them - Get frustrated and they either quit the game, or search around for another event. > > @"Imperadordf.2687" said: > >Deal with it. > Guessing you are referring to Anet. Sorry, I came home a bit nervous so I might acted a bit offensive, edited that part of the comment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eme.2018 Posted May 15, 2018 Share Posted May 15, 2018 > @"Imperadordf.2687" said: > Sorry, I came home a bit nervous so I might acted a bit offensive, edited that part of the comment. Well then, I am sorry too, I shall edit my answer as well. > @"Imperadordf.2687" said: > Well the problem did exist for years but people still could tag some mobs without getting frustrated. Now most of them; > - Get outrun by mounted players > - Can't hit the mobs at all > - Just watch the mounted people destroy all the mobs around them > - Get frustrated and they either quit the game, or search around for another event. Or get on your mount and start doing the same which . . . isn't really a solution, in fact it just makes the problem worse. I see your point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aramus.8143 Posted May 15, 2018 Share Posted May 15, 2018 Imperadordf.2687 said: "Well the problem did exist for years but people still could tag some mobs without getting frustrated. Now most of them; Get outrun by mounted players Can't hit the mobs at all Just watch the mounted people destroy all the mobs around them Get frustrated and they either quit the game, or search around for another event." So what I'm reading here and other places too and from what I've seen playing the game if you own a mount you basically own the game. When it gets too ridiculous I usually just log out. A neighbor of mine left and went back to FFXIV. I think I'll give it another month and see if Anet acknowledges the problem, if not I may join my neighbor. I'm sure no one cares about this post so here's something else you won't care about. I had my 2 boosts but I didn't use them right away because I wanted to level some different characters but after watching people with mounts and how they were using them I deleted the boosts. I decided I wanted to play the game the way it should be played but that went down hill fast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biff.5312 Posted May 15, 2018 Share Posted May 15, 2018 > @"Imperadordf.2687" said: > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > I am happy I can breeze through low level zones with no hustle. I am bored with core tyria after 6 years and I don't want this functionality to be removed or nerfed. If you don't like it, don't use it. > > The problem is it harms the low-level players and new players. The scaling needs to be adjusted. I have mounts but I just don't use their skills while doing events. It sucks the fun out of the game for new players really. What sucks the fun out for new players is not the functionality - it's the behavior of players who obnoxiously 'steal' all the targets and leave them nothing to fight. I maintain this is a social issue and not a game mechanic one. Nerfing the mount dmg makes sense, but really any player can make things unpleasant for others by doing annoying things, and this is just one of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artemis.6781 Posted May 15, 2018 Share Posted May 15, 2018 Just dismount using your default X key and NOT the attack key default 1. This action does not attack any mobs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Illconceived Was Na.9781 Posted May 15, 2018 Share Posted May 15, 2018 > @"artemis.6781" said: > Just dismount using your default X key and NOT the attack key default 1. This action does not attack any mobs. It only takes one mounted player choosing to dismount, to make it very difficult for anyone else to work on the event (or heart or just do stuff in the zone generally). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cragga the Eighty Third.60 Posted May 15, 2018 Share Posted May 15, 2018 > @"Biff.5312" said: > > @"Imperadordf.2687" said: > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > I am happy I can breeze through low level zones with no hustle. I am bored with core tyria after 6 years and I don't want this functionality to be removed or nerfed. If you don't like it, don't use it. > > > > The problem is it harms the low-level players and new players. The scaling needs to be adjusted. I have mounts but I just don't use their skills while doing events. It sucks the fun out of the game for new players really. > > What sucks the fun out for new players is not the functionality - it's the behavior of players who obnoxiously 'steal' all the targets and leave them nothing to fight. I maintain this is a social issue and not a game mechanic one. Nerfing the mount dmg makes sense, but really any player can make things unpleasant for others by doing annoying things, and this is just one of them. You can say it's a social issue, but if you have one or two socially obnoxious people killing off all the mobs before others can get to them, it forces other people to imitate their behavior just to be able to take part, and leaves those without mounts completely out of luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Etterwyn.5263 Posted May 15, 2018 Share Posted May 15, 2018 > @"Cragga the Eighty Third.6015" said: > > @"Biff.5312" said: > > > @"Imperadordf.2687" said: > > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > I am happy I can breeze through low level zones with no hustle. I am bored with core tyria after 6 years and I don't want this functionality to be removed or nerfed. If you don't like it, don't use it. > > > > > > The problem is it harms the low-level players and new players. The scaling needs to be adjusted. I have mounts but I just don't use their skills while doing events. It sucks the fun out of the game for new players really. > > > > What sucks the fun out for new players is not the functionality - it's the behavior of players who obnoxiously 'steal' all the targets and leave them nothing to fight. I maintain this is a social issue and not a game mechanic one. Nerfing the mount dmg makes sense, but really any player can make things unpleasant for others by doing annoying things, and this is just one of them. > > You can say it's a social issue, but if you have one or two socially obnoxious people killing off all the mobs before others can get to them, it forces other people to imitate their behavior just to be able to take part, and leaves those without mounts completely out of luck. > > That's what I wind up doing. Once I get frustrated enough I just say screw it, if you can't beat em join em. And since I have 2 accounts, one with only core Tyria, I get to see how people without mounts must feel. I purposely skip Daily *** Event Completer whenever I can do something else in its place towards my 3 dailies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goettel.4389 Posted May 15, 2018 Share Posted May 15, 2018 It ruins daily events, which I'm guessing most people do. That's a lot of annoyance which might be easy to fix. Any ANet comment, pretty please ? :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Endless Soul.5178 Posted May 15, 2018 Share Posted May 15, 2018 This is exactly why I go find my own daily event in the starter areas, and when I do, I don't announce it in map chat until I'm positive I got a tag in (not with a mount!) and stop contributing to the event. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashantara.8731 Posted May 15, 2018 Share Posted May 15, 2018 > @"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said: > I'd like to see Dismount skills scaled down more, both in power and in abilities. > > Currently, if I time it just so, I can (a) kill any clump of mobs in a single dismount, (b) remount nearly instantly (since I never get put into direct combat), and therefore © rinse repeat. No other player has any opportunity to participate. [...] > > tl;dr I don't care if this is a bug or not, it makes the game less fun for too large a fraction of players by removing opportunities for cooperative gameplay. > (I prefer scaling down of both damage & abilities, but I'm okay with nearly easily-achieved proposal to even things up.) So much this. :+1: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khisanth.2948 Posted May 15, 2018 Share Posted May 15, 2018 They could just get rid of the low level zones as dailies for lv80s similar to how they change certain dailies if the account doesn't have any lv80. Outside of events daily I don't think there is much issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Illconceived Was Na.9781 Posted May 16, 2018 Share Posted May 16, 2018 > @"Khisanth.2948" said: > They could just get rid of the low level zones as dailies for lv80s similar to how they change certain dailies if the account doesn't have any lv80. Outside of events daily I don't think there is much issue. I go to starter maps for completion, for key runs, for the occasional hear item etc... and it's an issue independent of the four-event dailies. It's less noticeable in 16-30 zones, but still can be a problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edelweiss.4261 Posted May 16, 2018 Share Posted May 16, 2018 I really enjoy using my mounts offensive abilities in lower level maps. It makes map completion a lot of fun. That said, I only use them if there aren't low-level players around. I don't want to ruin events for others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warlord.9082 Posted May 16, 2018 Share Posted May 16, 2018 Stop asking for more nerfs and just be grateful that a higher ranking player opted to help you out instead of ignoring you... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanner Blackfeather.6509 Posted May 16, 2018 Share Posted May 16, 2018 > @"Warlord.9082" said: > Stop asking for more nerfs and just be grateful that a higher ranking player opted to help you out instead of ignoring you... Except what everyone is talking about here isn't helping. It's essentially as close to killstealing this game has, something actively designed to not happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casualkenny.9817 Posted May 16, 2018 Share Posted May 16, 2018 I think it is a problem, though more only when it is a daily. Tbh, I only became aware of it as a contributor doing that silly event at Ashford South, near the guild puzzle, where you need to defend the 2 tents, but the timer is ridiculous and the hordes are too hard for low levels? But even before there were mounts, and even now, a high-dps scaled-down player would just come in and aoe-sweep all mobs before other people can tag. Therefore, I think the first line of fix should be social education, to call out and even penalise such player activity. Most people will realise and stop. But for the remainder, they will ruin things whether with mounts or with their own normal skill damage. In the end, they are selfish players who want the event to terminate faster so that they can move on asap. Unfortunately, this particular type will spoil it for everyone. The sad way to solve it would be to transfer the daily from the newbie zone to a higher zone either for high-level accs or for high level chars. Too bad for players who play properly... Another big sad thing is, World bosses are a great way to complete the event dailies in those low-level maps... Damn. But it is a real issue. It would be a total turnoff to new players trying out the game, and would be disastrous in the long term for these anti-socials (whether with mount or without) to block off new blood. Especially since these new players frequently will be freebie tryout accounts and thus unable to shout for help through map chat. I really hope that Anet will not completely remove mounts or mount attacks though, from core. Its a big qol hit for annoying content, imho. Lets be honest, for a lot of players, once you've done it a few times, do you really want to do it again, clearing trash mobs in low zones? You just want to get it over and done with, especially if the map is normally dead. Dailies are a Chore... WAIT, how about completely scrapping event dailies from the daily pool?!? It's practically the shittiest daily anyway! Once you are level 80, there's so many more daily things to do, like lw3, metas, fracs, etc. Just scrap this garbage time waster that is ZERO fun for most players with max accounts and replace them with something simple (not another terrible equivalent please...) Please, scrap this idiotic daily completely! It is no longer needed! (I know I'm rambling... I'm typing as I think) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texas.4861 Posted May 16, 2018 Author Share Posted May 16, 2018 > @"MarshallLaw.9260" said: > > @"Ashantara.8731" said: > > > @"Texas.4861" said: > > @"Texas.4861" > > I was **dismayed** and **annoyed** that the other lower ranked players and myself were **overwhelmed** in events by players... > > Just sounds so dramatic, so mortifying; "The Nightmare of Queensdale" - other players on MOUNTS *insert dramatic music*. > Let's get real, scaling isn't 100% effective. A level80 player, with top tier gear, will never be scaled down to deal the same damage as a low level player with average gear. Mounts are loosely in the same category. Attack!! I was playing Toccata and Fugue in D minor in full orchestral while writing this post.. or was it the Batman Theme... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texas.4861 Posted May 16, 2018 Author Share Posted May 16, 2018 > @"Texas.4861" said: > > @"MarshallLaw.9260" said: > > > @"Ashantara.8731" said: > > > > @"Texas.4861" said: > > > > @"Texas.4861" > > > I was **dismayed** and **annoyed** that the other lower ranked players and myself were **overwhelmed** in events by players... > > > > Just sounds so dramatic, so mortifying; "The Nightmare of Queensdale" - other players on MOUNTS *insert dramatic music*. > > Let's get real, scaling isn't 100% effective. A level80 player, with top tier gear, will never be scaled down to deal the same damage as a low level player with average gear. Mounts are loosely in the same category. > Attack!! > I was playing Toccata and Fugue in D minor in full orchestral while writing this post.. or was it the Batman Theme... > > Oh I remember now , my granddaughter and I were watching The Lion King "I just cant wait to be King" totally different mood. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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