Ryou.2398 Posted May 17, 2018 Share Posted May 17, 2018 > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > @"Ryou.2398" said: > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > @"Ryou.2398" said: > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > @"Lyger.5429" said: > > > > > > I know the devs had good intentions with the recent reworks to deadeye and mesmer and it's awesome to see more dev interactions. However these reworks have been a good example of "good on paper, bad in practice". > > > > > > > > > > > > Mesmer has pretty much ruined pvp with it's clone spam, which also causes more lag. Deadeye is now both useless in pvp and pve, no longer even able to reach 30k with rifle on benchmarks. > > > > > > > > > > > > Please Anet if it ain't broke....don't try to fix it. > > > > > > > > > > Anet only fixes things they find broken though ... it's not open to player opinion or interpretation. > > > > > > > > > > > @"Lyger.5429" said: > > > > > > > @"Lunateric.3708" said: > > > > > > > Mesmer rework was pretty kitten good for the class, it also made possible things that weren't there before for it IE Power DPS Chrono. It does need some tuning in PvP/WvW so the main thing you should complain about is the slow pace of PvP balance/tweaking. Gotta keep it real, bro. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Deadeye "rework" didn't really work out, I give you that, malice was basically made a non-mechanic and the whole spec is in a worse place overall. > > > > > > > > > > > > They didn't have to rework mes (not right away) because it was meta in all game modes. Plus chrono was meant to be a support spec not dps. They could have made another spec for that. > > > > > > > > > > Hold on here ... being meta in all game modes ... that doesn't indicate balance or 'things are fine' to me. Clearly, mesmer is doing alot better than most classes ... maybe too much so. i'm not surprised they have been getting some unwanted attention ... obviously mesmer players LIKE the current state of their profession, for reasons. > > > > > > > > Not opened to opinion? No that is wrong stop trying to censor others please there is no excuse for that behavior period, everyone has a right to express opinions about changes to the game where in the user agreement does it say that? Of course its opened to discussion and opinion, just like everything else. > > > > > > Express all the opinions you want ... but it's painfully obvious when some of those opinions aren't informed ones. And yes, opinions like 'please don't fix things because I like the old way' are poorly informed. Anet wouldn't have made the changes if they didn't feel they were necessary or want to direct play in a certain direction. > > > > Thats not the point, the point just because someone felt it was necessary hardly means it is, rather it is or not is not completely up to us but to say our opinions do not matter when they do use some of our ideas and concepts to start with is nonsense, we as a gaming community had lots of influence in game decisions this is why they ask us for our opinions to start with like any other mmorpg, maybe your new to mmorpgs but what you said is completely and 100 percent false, as far as what you replied to that opinion was not uninformed so your comment is completely unwarranted. > > > > No, I think that is the point ... > > I never saw Anet ask opinions from us about why they shouldn't make design changes to things ... This isn't a democracy; it's not a player-driven design experiment in MMOs ... it's a business and Anet is the proprietor; they know their market better than anyone because they know what market they want to target. They direct the changes the way they see fit and they always have. Again, voice all the opinions you want; but make no mistake, some opinions are worth more than others. The opinion that Anet shouldn't change something because it's not in a player's best interest is one of those low-value opinions. > > The fact is that mesmer is not a hard done by class, so someone complaining that Anet changed something on it ... and that might be a negative impact on how it plays is a completely laughable opinion. The poster even admitted that mesmer is in a good place because it's meta in every game mode. How confused can a person be? The whole idea that Anet 'stop the reworks' is completely preposterous to begin with ... why would anyone take that as a serious and well thought out opinion? You have zero clue what your talking about, us having influence is not a democracy lol! And it does not matter what you say, anet asks for opinions all the time, a good example is the weaver as spellsword or battlemage was suggested many times do a search yourself you seem newer to the forums or mmorpgs in general and you have zero clue what they are, mmorpgs are very player driven, you really need to think and do some research before you make assumptions, no one here said they are not a business but if games are not player driven they will never make any money, this is why we see so many failed mmorpgs to start with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obtena.7952 Posted May 17, 2018 Share Posted May 17, 2018 > @"Ryou.2398" said: > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > @"Ryou.2398" said: > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > @"Ryou.2398" said: > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > @"Lyger.5429" said: > > > > > > > I know the devs had good intentions with the recent reworks to deadeye and mesmer and it's awesome to see more dev interactions. However these reworks have been a good example of "good on paper, bad in practice". > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mesmer has pretty much ruined pvp with it's clone spam, which also causes more lag. Deadeye is now both useless in pvp and pve, no longer even able to reach 30k with rifle on benchmarks. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Please Anet if it ain't broke....don't try to fix it. > > > > > > > > > > > > Anet only fixes things they find broken though ... it's not open to player opinion or interpretation. > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Lyger.5429" said: > > > > > > > > @"Lunateric.3708" said: > > > > > > > > Mesmer rework was pretty kitten good for the class, it also made possible things that weren't there before for it IE Power DPS Chrono. It does need some tuning in PvP/WvW so the main thing you should complain about is the slow pace of PvP balance/tweaking. Gotta keep it real, bro. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Deadeye "rework" didn't really work out, I give you that, malice was basically made a non-mechanic and the whole spec is in a worse place overall. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > They didn't have to rework mes (not right away) because it was meta in all game modes. Plus chrono was meant to be a support spec not dps. They could have made another spec for that. > > > > > > > > > > > > Hold on here ... being meta in all game modes ... that doesn't indicate balance or 'things are fine' to me. Clearly, mesmer is doing alot better than most classes ... maybe too much so. i'm not surprised they have been getting some unwanted attention ... obviously mesmer players LIKE the current state of their profession, for reasons. > > > > > > > > > > Not opened to opinion? No that is wrong stop trying to censor others please there is no excuse for that behavior period, everyone has a right to express opinions about changes to the game where in the user agreement does it say that? Of course its opened to discussion and opinion, just like everything else. > > > > > > > > Express all the opinions you want ... but it's painfully obvious when some of those opinions aren't informed ones. And yes, opinions like 'please don't fix things because I like the old way' are poorly informed. Anet wouldn't have made the changes if they didn't feel they were necessary or want to direct play in a certain direction. > > > > > > Thats not the point, the point just because someone felt it was necessary hardly means it is, rather it is or not is not completely up to us but to say our opinions do not matter when they do use some of our ideas and concepts to start with is nonsense, we as a gaming community had lots of influence in game decisions this is why they ask us for our opinions to start with like any other mmorpg, maybe your new to mmorpgs but what you said is completely and 100 percent false, as far as what you replied to that opinion was not uninformed so your comment is completely unwarranted. > > > > > > > No, I think that is the point ... > > > > I never saw Anet ask opinions from us about why they shouldn't make design changes to things ... This isn't a democracy; it's not a player-driven design experiment in MMOs ... it's a business and Anet is the proprietor; they know their market better than anyone because they know what market they want to target. They direct the changes the way they see fit and they always have. Again, voice all the opinions you want; but make no mistake, some opinions are worth more than others. The opinion that Anet shouldn't change something because it's not in a player's best interest is one of those low-value opinions. > > > > The fact is that mesmer is not a hard done by class, so someone complaining that Anet changed something on it ... and that might be a negative impact on how it plays is a completely laughable opinion. The poster even admitted that mesmer is in a good place because it's meta in every game mode. How confused can a person be? The whole idea that Anet 'stop the reworks' is completely preposterous to begin with ... why would anyone take that as a serious and well thought out opinion? > > if games are not player driven they will never make any money, this is why we see so many failed mmorpgs to start with. No, that's not true at all. If Anet targets a specific market with their game design and it appeals to that market, that market responds by playing it and patronizing Anet. I'm glad I have no clue ... you are confusing what I'm saying. Games appeal to players; that makes them player-focused services. They aren't designed by the players. I mean, this game makes money ... and the players don't design it; Anet does. You don't see the contradiction you have here? The whole reason this thread exists is because Anet is making changes that some players don't want ... and you're going to tell me that there is some significant contribution to players for game design here? If that was true, why does all this opinions and feedback Anet asks for happen AFTER the changes are made? That's not a player driven design process if you ask me ... Anet is not taking design advice from players, period. There are lots of clues why, you don't recognize them. Players do not dictate the direction of the game. They are asking to get a feel for player response, not because they want to have a player-opinion driven design experiment.Sure their might be some instances where player feedback affects how a skill works ... that's insignificant for the scale of design I'm referring to here. Feedback on skills isn't even close to class direction changes, like phantasm to clone conversion for example. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryou.2398 Posted May 18, 2018 Share Posted May 18, 2018 > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > @"Ryou.2398" said: > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > @"Ryou.2398" said: > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > @"Ryou.2398" said: > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > @"Lyger.5429" said: > > > > > > > > I know the devs had good intentions with the recent reworks to deadeye and mesmer and it's awesome to see more dev interactions. However these reworks have been a good example of "good on paper, bad in practice". > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mesmer has pretty much ruined pvp with it's clone spam, which also causes more lag. Deadeye is now both useless in pvp and pve, no longer even able to reach 30k with rifle on benchmarks. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Please Anet if it ain't broke....don't try to fix it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Anet only fixes things they find broken though ... it's not open to player opinion or interpretation. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Lyger.5429" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Lunateric.3708" said: > > > > > > > > > Mesmer rework was pretty kitten good for the class, it also made possible things that weren't there before for it IE Power DPS Chrono. It does need some tuning in PvP/WvW so the main thing you should complain about is the slow pace of PvP balance/tweaking. Gotta keep it real, bro. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Deadeye "rework" didn't really work out, I give you that, malice was basically made a non-mechanic and the whole spec is in a worse place overall. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > They didn't have to rework mes (not right away) because it was meta in all game modes. Plus chrono was meant to be a support spec not dps. They could have made another spec for that. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hold on here ... being meta in all game modes ... that doesn't indicate balance or 'things are fine' to me. Clearly, mesmer is doing alot better than most classes ... maybe too much so. i'm not surprised they have been getting some unwanted attention ... obviously mesmer players LIKE the current state of their profession, for reasons. > > > > > > > > > > > > Not opened to opinion? No that is wrong stop trying to censor others please there is no excuse for that behavior period, everyone has a right to express opinions about changes to the game where in the user agreement does it say that? Of course its opened to discussion and opinion, just like everything else. > > > > > > > > > > Express all the opinions you want ... but it's painfully obvious when some of those opinions aren't informed ones. And yes, opinions like 'please don't fix things because I like the old way' are poorly informed. Anet wouldn't have made the changes if they didn't feel they were necessary or want to direct play in a certain direction. > > > > > > > > Thats not the point, the point just because someone felt it was necessary hardly means it is, rather it is or not is not completely up to us but to say our opinions do not matter when they do use some of our ideas and concepts to start with is nonsense, we as a gaming community had lots of influence in game decisions this is why they ask us for our opinions to start with like any other mmorpg, maybe your new to mmorpgs but what you said is completely and 100 percent false, as far as what you replied to that opinion was not uninformed so your comment is completely unwarranted. > > > > > > > > > > No, I think that is the point ... > > > > > > I never saw Anet ask opinions from us about why they shouldn't make design changes to things ... This isn't a democracy; it's not a player-driven design experiment in MMOs ... it's a business and Anet is the proprietor; they know their market better than anyone because they know what market they want to target. They direct the changes the way they see fit and they always have. Again, voice all the opinions you want; but make no mistake, some opinions are worth more than others. The opinion that Anet shouldn't change something because it's not in a player's best interest is one of those low-value opinions. > > > > > > The fact is that mesmer is not a hard done by class, so someone complaining that Anet changed something on it ... and that might be a negative impact on how it plays is a completely laughable opinion. The poster even admitted that mesmer is in a good place because it's meta in every game mode. How confused can a person be? The whole idea that Anet 'stop the reworks' is completely preposterous to begin with ... why would anyone take that as a serious and well thought out opinion? > > > > if games are not player driven they will never make any money, this is why we see so many failed mmorpgs to start with. > > No, that's not true at all. If Anet targets a specific market with their game design and it appeals to that market, that market responds by playing it and patronizing Anet. I'm glad I have no clue ... you are confusing what I'm saying. Games appeal to players; that makes them player-focused services. They aren't designed by the players. I mean, this game makes money ... and the players don't design it; Anet does. You don't see the contradiction you have here? The whole reason this thread exists is because Anet is making changes that some players don't want ... and you're going to tell me that there is some significant contribution to players for game design here? If that was true, why does all this opinions and feedback Anet asks for happen AFTER the changes are made? That's not a player driven design process if you ask me ... > > Anet is not taking design advice from players, period. There are lots of clues why, you don't recognize them. Players do not dictate the direction of the game. They are asking to get a feel for player response, not because they want to have a player-opinion driven design experiment.Sure their might be some instances where player feedback affects how a skill works ... that's insignificant for the scale of design I'm referring to here. Feedback on skills isn't even close to class direction changes, like phantasm to clone conversion for example. > > I Stopped reading in the first paragraph you really do not fully understand what your saying, no offense I am done wasting my effort with a brickwall goodluck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obtena.7952 Posted May 18, 2018 Share Posted May 18, 2018 No offense taken; I don't mind taking the time to explain the obvious to people. You are convinced that Anet is getting design advice and implementing it from players, I honestly can't see when that has ever happened and I honestly don't see it happening with the 'advice' of the OP from this thread either. If you got a problem with people having their emotionally-charged opinions challenged with the realities of how the game has consistently worked for 6 years, then I can only advise you to ignore it. You're just unhappy that someone is reminding you of the client/service provider relationship. Client certainly can feedback on how a service is provided ... but they shouldn't expect the provider to change how they deliver that service just because they are unhappy. That's unreasonable and disrespecting of the whole client base ... Changes are for the provider to determine and in this particular case, the feedback is ridiculous "don't change things" ... sure :astonished: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lyger.5429 Posted May 18, 2018 Author Share Posted May 18, 2018 > @"Obtena.7952" said: > No offense taken; I don't mind taking the time to explain the obvious to people. You are convinced that Anet is getting design advice and implementing it from players, I honestly can't see when that has ever happened and I honestly don't see it happening with the 'advice' of the OP from this thread either. If you got a problem with people having their emotionally-charged opinions challenged with the realities of how the game has consistently worked for 6 years, then I can only advise you to ignore it. You're just unhappy that someone is reminding you of the client/service provider relationship. Client certainly can feedback on how a service is provided ... but they shouldn't expect the provider to change how they deliver that service just because they are unhappy. That's unreasonable and disrespecting of the whole client base ... Changes are for the provider to determine and in this particular case, the feedback is ridiculous "don't change things" ... sure :astonished: At the end of the day, Anet created a unique class (the execution, not the concept), the deadeye, then gutted it due to a fundamentally lack of understanding of the thief mechanics. While clients (players) may not be able to influence design ideas within the game, they still hold power over certain aspects and will take their money elsewhere if they disagree with a particular decision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obtena.7952 Posted May 18, 2018 Share Posted May 18, 2018 > @"Lyger.5429" said: > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > No offense taken; I don't mind taking the time to explain the obvious to people. You are convinced that Anet is getting design advice and implementing it from players, I honestly can't see when that has ever happened and I honestly don't see it happening with the 'advice' of the OP from this thread either. If you got a problem with people having their emotionally-charged opinions challenged with the realities of how the game has consistently worked for 6 years, then I can only advise you to ignore it. You're just unhappy that someone is reminding you of the client/service provider relationship. Client certainly can feedback on how a service is provided ... but they shouldn't expect the provider to change how they deliver that service just because they are unhappy. That's unreasonable and disrespecting of the whole client base ... Changes are for the provider to determine and in this particular case, the feedback is ridiculous "don't change things" ... sure :astonished: > > At the end of the day, Anet created a unique class (the execution, not the concept), the deadeye, then gutted it due to a fundamentally lack of understanding of the thief mechanics. While clients (players) may not be able to influence design ideas within the game, they still hold power over certain aspects and will take their money elsewhere if they disagree with a particular decision. yeah and? I mean, you say this like players taking their money elsewhere to find what they like better is something we should be really scared of; it's not. That would be really scary if this game didn't already have an established market and players that patronize it. As I've already mentioned, the players that are sticking with this game for the most part, don't have a problem with how Anet makes the changes OR don't like them, but don't find the changes so offensive that they leave the game. That's a very individualist way of thinking and it's irrelevant in an MMO that provides a service for millions of players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryou.2398 Posted May 18, 2018 Share Posted May 18, 2018 > @"Obtena.7952" said: > No offense taken; I don't mind taking the time to explain the obvious to people. You are convinced that Anet is getting design advice and implementing it from players, I honestly can't see when that has ever happened and I honestly don't see it happening with the 'advice' of the OP from this thread either. If you got a problem with people having their emotionally-charged opinions challenged with the realities of how the game has consistently worked for 6 years, then I can only advise you to ignore it. You're just unhappy that someone is reminding you of the client/service provider relationship. Client certainly can feedback on how a service is provided ... but they shouldn't expect the provider to change how they deliver that service just because they are unhappy. That's unreasonable and disrespecting of the whole client base ... Changes are for the provider to determine and in this particular case, the feedback is ridiculous "don't change things" ... sure :astonished: The problem isnt opinions, its a problem when opinions become jaded and ignorant of anything outside of themselves because they may not choose to see beyond their own ego or are simply blind to it without realizing it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obtena.7952 Posted May 18, 2018 Share Posted May 18, 2018 > @"Ryou.2398" said: > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > No offense taken; I don't mind taking the time to explain the obvious to people. You are convinced that Anet is getting design advice and implementing it from players, I honestly can't see when that has ever happened and I honestly don't see it happening with the 'advice' of the OP from this thread either. If you got a problem with people having their emotionally-charged opinions challenged with the realities of how the game has consistently worked for 6 years, then I can only advise you to ignore it. You're just unhappy that someone is reminding you of the client/service provider relationship. Client certainly can feedback on how a service is provided ... but they shouldn't expect the provider to change how they deliver that service just because they are unhappy. That's unreasonable and disrespecting of the whole client base ... Changes are for the provider to determine and in this particular case, the feedback is ridiculous "don't change things" ... sure :astonished: > > The problem isnt opinions, its a problem when opinions become jaded and ignorant of anything outside of themselves because they may not choose to see beyond their own ego or are simply blind to it without realizing it. OH kind of like the opinion that Anet shouldn't do anything else with a class because players don't like change? Got it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryou.2398 Posted May 19, 2018 Share Posted May 19, 2018 > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > @"Ryou.2398" said: > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > No offense taken; I don't mind taking the time to explain the obvious to people. You are convinced that Anet is getting design advice and implementing it from players, I honestly can't see when that has ever happened and I honestly don't see it happening with the 'advice' of the OP from this thread either. If you got a problem with people having their emotionally-charged opinions challenged with the realities of how the game has consistently worked for 6 years, then I can only advise you to ignore it. You're just unhappy that someone is reminding you of the client/service provider relationship. Client certainly can feedback on how a service is provided ... but they shouldn't expect the provider to change how they deliver that service just because they are unhappy. That's unreasonable and disrespecting of the whole client base ... Changes are for the provider to determine and in this particular case, the feedback is ridiculous "don't change things" ... sure :astonished: > > > > The problem isnt opinions, its a problem when opinions become jaded and ignorant of anything outside of themselves because they may not choose to see beyond their own ego or are simply blind to it without realizing it. > > OH kind of like the opinion that Anet shouldn't do anything else with a class because players don't like change? Got it. I never said they should or shouldn't and you know it, maybe if you took to the time to read what I actually said to begin with you would of understood what I originally disagreed with. Anyways regardless if you think they should or should not, players do effect the direction of an mmorpg to an extent period. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InsaneQR.7412 Posted May 19, 2018 Share Posted May 19, 2018 > The rework was a good first step towards improving mesmer. More need to be done. Change more. Forward. That's good. Agree. Personally i like the mechanics of both reworks. It makes gameplay more active as it was before. Only reason why many say DE was a bad rework was because its dealing less dmg, which wasnt the point of the rework but rather the one trick pony builds in PvE and WvW. One was gun and run and the other was perma stealth and marking a target until you can one shot it. Now it is marking, attack, stealthing and then finishing it off. It also gives some interaction in PvE and a reason to stealth. Id say they should improve silent scope so you stealth after every dodge roll (no matter what weapon using) and iron sights swaps places with it and gains the rifle dmg boost bonus when stealthed and dmg reduction when not in stealth. For mesmer they should not put a cap on phantasms but rather reduce their dmg if you have multiples up (makes sense too because it needs more concentration to keep those phantasms up). The more are up the less dmg you do per phantasm. Overall your dmg is getting higher with more phantasms so it is not counter intuitive but you will loose more burst per phantasm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan.7583 Posted May 19, 2018 Share Posted May 19, 2018 Just one more rework - make Thief useful class... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conncept.7638 Posted May 20, 2018 Share Posted May 20, 2018 Mesmer rework just needs balance changes, rarely will you ever see a rework release balanced. Also, it wasn't even really a full rework, just phantasms, and it was needed, as phantasms in their previous iteration _literally_ did not function with the mesmers class mechanic. Deadeye rework on the other hand was just all around terrible. The deadeye now just feels like a direct upgrade on the existing stealth burst thief, and not even a very noticable upgrade. It has no unique gameplay but kneel, which, with the stealth skill being the same whether you're kneeling or not, is an arbitrary addition to the class. And even if kneel did gain its own stealth skill, it would still feel just like the vanilla burst thief with every other weapon. I know people knocked it, even I did at times, but now that it's gone, really what was wrong with the waiting mechanic? It was unique, it made the class feel different from the base thief and the other specializations. It made you _feel_ like a sniper waiting for a kill shot. So what if it wasn't viable in every game mode? Who cares if it never found a place in the PVP meta? Not everything is going to, not everything has to. The game has loads of trait lines, specializations, weapons, stat sets, and utility skill sets that are only viable in a single game mode, and I don't see the devs bending over backwards to redesign any of them, sometimes it even seems like _most_ of the games build content falls in that category. Heck the _entire necromancer profession_ wasn't PvP viable for _almost five years_ and in that time the devs made one major mechanical change to the class, that wasn't even addressing the issue that prevented necros from being PvP viable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obtena.7952 Posted May 22, 2018 Share Posted May 22, 2018 > @"Ryou.2398" said: > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > @"Ryou.2398" said: > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > No offense taken; I don't mind taking the time to explain the obvious to people. You are convinced that Anet is getting design advice and implementing it from players, I honestly can't see when that has ever happened and I honestly don't see it happening with the 'advice' of the OP from this thread either. If you got a problem with people having their emotionally-charged opinions challenged with the realities of how the game has consistently worked for 6 years, then I can only advise you to ignore it. You're just unhappy that someone is reminding you of the client/service provider relationship. Client certainly can feedback on how a service is provided ... but they shouldn't expect the provider to change how they deliver that service just because they are unhappy. That's unreasonable and disrespecting of the whole client base ... Changes are for the provider to determine and in this particular case, the feedback is ridiculous "don't change things" ... sure :astonished: > > > > > > The problem isnt opinions, its a problem when opinions become jaded and ignorant of anything outside of themselves because they may not choose to see beyond their own ego or are simply blind to it without realizing it. > > > > OH kind of like the opinion that Anet shouldn't do anything else with a class because players don't like change? Got it. > > I never said they should or shouldn't and you know it, maybe if you took to the time to read what I actually said to begin with you would of understood what I originally disagreed with. Anyways regardless if you think they should or should not, players do effect the direction of an mmorpg to an extent period. Right ... TO AN EXTENT ... more specifically, to the extent I already explained and certainly not the extent that Anet will not do anything else with a class because people don't like changes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryou.2398 Posted May 22, 2018 Share Posted May 22, 2018 > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > @"Ryou.2398" said: > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > @"Ryou.2398" said: > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > No offense taken; I don't mind taking the time to explain the obvious to people. You are convinced that Anet is getting design advice and implementing it from players, I honestly can't see when that has ever happened and I honestly don't see it happening with the 'advice' of the OP from this thread either. If you got a problem with people having their emotionally-charged opinions challenged with the realities of how the game has consistently worked for 6 years, then I can only advise you to ignore it. You're just unhappy that someone is reminding you of the client/service provider relationship. Client certainly can feedback on how a service is provided ... but they shouldn't expect the provider to change how they deliver that service just because they are unhappy. That's unreasonable and disrespecting of the whole client base ... Changes are for the provider to determine and in this particular case, the feedback is ridiculous "don't change things" ... sure :astonished: > > > > > > > > The problem isnt opinions, its a problem when opinions become jaded and ignorant of anything outside of themselves because they may not choose to see beyond their own ego or are simply blind to it without realizing it. > > > > > > OH kind of like the opinion that Anet shouldn't do anything else with a class because players don't like change? Got it. > > > > I never said they should or shouldn't and you know it, maybe if you took to the time to read what I actually said to begin with you would of understood what I originally disagreed with. Anyways regardless if you think they should or should not, players do effect the direction of an mmorpg to an extent period. > > Right ... TO AN EXTENT ... more specifically, to the extent I already explained and certainly not the extent that Anet will not do anything else with a class because people don't like changes. You need to check your wording just saying. And actually they will change it if enough feedback like any other game thats like saying no one will change a product if no one is buying it lol of course they will change things according to feedback they do not make all the decisions alone they also look at out feedback and our feedback has helped some of the changes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obtena.7952 Posted May 22, 2018 Share Posted May 22, 2018 > @"Ryou.2398" said: > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > @"Ryou.2398" said: > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > @"Ryou.2398" said: > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > No offense taken; I don't mind taking the time to explain the obvious to people. You are convinced that Anet is getting design advice and implementing it from players, I honestly can't see when that has ever happened and I honestly don't see it happening with the 'advice' of the OP from this thread either. If you got a problem with people having their emotionally-charged opinions challenged with the realities of how the game has consistently worked for 6 years, then I can only advise you to ignore it. You're just unhappy that someone is reminding you of the client/service provider relationship. Client certainly can feedback on how a service is provided ... but they shouldn't expect the provider to change how they deliver that service just because they are unhappy. That's unreasonable and disrespecting of the whole client base ... Changes are for the provider to determine and in this particular case, the feedback is ridiculous "don't change things" ... sure :astonished: > > > > > > > > > > The problem isnt opinions, its a problem when opinions become jaded and ignorant of anything outside of themselves because they may not choose to see beyond their own ego or are simply blind to it without realizing it. > > > > > > > > OH kind of like the opinion that Anet shouldn't do anything else with a class because players don't like change? Got it. > > > > > > I never said they should or shouldn't and you know it, maybe if you took to the time to read what I actually said to begin with you would of understood what I originally disagreed with. Anyways regardless if you think they should or should not, players do effect the direction of an mmorpg to an extent period. > > > > Right ... TO AN EXTENT ... more specifically, to the extent I already explained and certainly not the extent that Anet will not do anything else with a class because people don't like changes. > > You need to check your wording just saying. And actually they will change it if enough feedback like any other game thats like saying no one will change a product if no one is buying it lol of course they will change things according to feedback they do not make all the decisions alone they also look at out feedback and our feedback has helped some of the changes. No wording to check ... I didn't say they don't act on feedback AFTER they implemented their changes. Anet isn't taking design direction from players is what I said. That's not the same thing. You know what the only problem here is? You really didn't understand my point in the first place and now you're creating all these little nuances to make it sound like you had something relevant to say for me as a take away. My point is and has been, simple; Anet creates the concepts and designs, not players. Anet does not ask players what the design for something should be. It seems to me you don't understand the difference between the concepts, the designs and the implementations. Players giving feedback like "please don't change my class" don't seem to either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ardenwolfe.8590 Posted May 22, 2018 Share Posted May 22, 2018 I'll add my voice too. Please, no more gutting of pets and builds in PvE. Do what you want in PvP, but this nonsense has to stop in PvE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nimon.7840 Posted May 23, 2018 Share Posted May 23, 2018 > @"Ardenwolfe.8590" said: > I'll add my voice too. Please, no more gutting of pets and builds in PvE. Do what you want in PvP, but this nonsense has to stop in PvE. We'll tbh. Having 9k DPS from just using one pet is way too much and was literally broken. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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