Arheundel.6451 Posted May 26, 2018 Author Share Posted May 26, 2018 > @"Taltevus.3289" said: > > @"Arheundel.6451" said: > > People like to call it "powercreep" ...but I like to call it : **"most sensible solution"** . > > > > The current TOP professions are so far ahead that in reality we would need years worth of nerfs/changes to bring them in line with the rest, years is what you need to apply an uniform risk/reward ratio to all classes and all of you should realise that this is not feasible, not with this balance team and level of commitment. > > > > The unequal distribution of defensive mechanism and efficient offensive mechanics , it's too ingrained into the game to be changed with nerfs at this point, unless you destroy the very concept of **low risk=high reward**, players will always gravitate towards it . If all of you really want to balance the game through nerfs then....we should start from the foundations by removing **stealth and passive invulnerability, also total invulnerability mechanics like distortion** , we should remove stunlock, condi and boon spam....basically we should rewrite the whole kitten game from scratch. > > > > You can keep nerfing mesmer, necro, warrrior to oblivion....players will simply bandwagon to the next thing because low risk=high reward is now part of the "culture" of this game, it's what the playerbase has been fed for years and it's what they expect now. > > > > I realise now that no amount of nerfs will solve mesmer problem for example, the traitlines for this class are so....busted that's no matter what you nerf ..they can come up always on top so why keep nerfing them instead than buff the traitlines for all others? > > You must be new here...We are just now 3 years later addressing the H.O.T's Specs. pvpwise. > The power creep is real. Lol > > Anet can't collect data on a player-base that is dwindling in this area. > The longer OBVIOUS changes take the more fed up players become. We've been here so many times before...people mock like it can't get any worse...yet it has. > It's routine to mock players leaving until you get to this point, the point we are at now. > > However...something PVP'ers don't realize. I am pretty sure they don't generate NREALY as much revenue as PVE'ers. > That being said, while it may seem, which many plyaers said during the release of HOT, that this is a short term solution > It wont last in the long run. Power creeping your way to boost revenue doesn't work. Leads to endless powercreep aka p2w > And that's exactly what it's been Core to HOT and now HOT to POW > Need I remind you Gw2 also gained the stench of F2P (drastically made the game worse as they weren't prepared to manage a F2P) > P2W and F2P Yeah...no. > > The late game catches up with you which is what we are seeing now. > The late game of Elite Specs from HoT's not looking so good...now with PoF. Even worse > Core players were really disenfranchised....new core players are REALLY not going to go for this foolishness. > HoT players are feeling that now...and just what do you think all those PoF players are thinking? > They'll be immune? Ha! > Sure. > > Keep the nerf bat swingging. > You don't have to rewrite the entire game...just that absolute horrendous mockery of PVP. > But I am almost certain that wont happen... > > 1. because it doesn't matter. Most of Gw2's fame was actually based heavily on wow...what I mean. C.T.F.D! > Gw2 made a huge fuss about being the Wow Killer, and the Buy to play MMO and that Micro transactions Models work. > Well...Yeah that lasted for like 3 years and with each buff HOT now POF it seems things have gotten worse and drastically worse in both Pve and Pvp > > 2. Gw2 is old it's yesterdays news...not becasue of it's age but becasue Anet ultimately failed to strike while the Iron was Hot. > I don't think you understand the level of expectations core players had for this game moving forward. Many many people had incredibly high hopes for Gw2 to be different and not commonplace mediocrity and it was for a while.The Combat was Unique but...slowly people realized that was about all that was really unique... Combat alone and MMO doesn't make. > It's just this litany of missed opportunities mostly from Anet not having people capable enough to do the job. This was said often in the face of good and great ideas. > > 3. We ARE the life support. The reason little changes have happened is becasue if any "changes" occur it drives off the life support players. low risk - high reward players > Gw2 is in this stagnant rut. What I mean is if Anet changes the out with the old in with the new cadence people won't likely buy into the game in significant levels. > But that also means...players who enjoy the game and it's state are likely to leave. I'd rather have neutered classes across the board if it means the over all health of a game is better. But it's like you said...the culture that Anet fostered in this game will be it's ruin. <----This is not new it's been said and said and said and said and said but players always want to feel some kind of way > The people that depend more so on broken mechanics than actual exchange of skill are the FOCUS of this game. period. > The players you NEED in this game aren't interested in it...anymore. > Broadcasting your made all your classes weaker to the general public...isn't going to bode well > > We all remember the sting of a failed esports league...another moment Anet missed likely becasue they didn't have/couldn't pay the talent to rectify the issues or...probably just thought they'll cash in on Espurtz, yeah no. Anet probably doesn't want to double down on that game-wide level of embarrassment. > > It's these things that has gw2 in this loop of "this ish ain't working" but, they can't stop. > I am not saying I know everything but this is just how it seems to me. > > **TL;DR You're asking Anet for a better game by having them do the exact things that made it worse. No. More. Power. Creep.** > If there is another Exp planned I'm sure the bottom of Hot and Core players will surely drop out. Anet is either going to have to cater to them or force them to buy up (or aka cut them out) They will probably just bow out seeing this for a 3rd time in a row being expected to wait 3 years for more appropriate balance passes. > You first state to "keep swinging the nerf bat"...then you say that nerfs will drive away the low risk high reward pop which is 90% of the GW2 pop...your post is contradictory and anyway it leads back to what I am trying to say ; "you can't keep swinging the nerf bat long or hard enough without driving away players used to low risk=high reward gameplay" But the majority of people sadly can't understand properly the full context; they simply read "buff>nerf" and follow the herd mentality of buff=powercreep banter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sinful.2165 Posted May 26, 2018 Share Posted May 26, 2018 This makes zero sense. If something is overpowered why wouldn’t you tone it down instead of buffing everything else? Actually, you’re right. Let’s just skip all the buffing non sense until you inevitably arrive at the solution that everyone gets 1 dmg skill that 1 shots anyone and 2 dodges just to keep the games going longer than 10 seconds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlippyCheeze.5483 Posted May 26, 2018 Share Posted May 26, 2018 > @"sephiroth.4217" said: > > @"SlippyCheeze.5483" said: > > > @"sephiroth.4217" said: > > > > @"Brother.1504" said: > > > > > @"SlippyCheeze.5483" said: > > > > > > @"Arheundel.6451" said: > > > > > > People like to call it "powercreep" ...but I like to call it : **"most sensible solution"** . > > > > > > > > > > Here is a secret: a buff to one class is the same as a nerf to all other classes! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Someone gets it. > > > > > > > > > > Isn't that why OP asks to buff classes? > > > > > > Instead of nerfing 5 classes, why not buff 2-3. > > > > Hey, that's a great idea. Imagine if they were to, say, pick elementalist for that. They could increase the damage of Impale, Lightning Touch, Drake's Breath, Shatterstone, Ashen Blast, Steam Surge, and reduce the cooldown of things to make them usable more often, like Static Field, and Boil, and they could increase the defensive values of skills like Stone Resonance, or tune Glyph of Storms. > > > > They could buff Ranger too, imagine: increase the damage of Stab, and Jab, rework the final part of the sequence with a higher damage attack, buff ... > > > > ...or Thief. They could buff Thief. Imagine increasing the damage of Deadly Strike, Stab, and Jab! Increase the healing of Skelk Venom, drop the cooldown on Assassin's Signet, and Signet of Shadows. Bump up a whole slew of things. > > > > Just imagine a universe where ANet made those changes to a handful of classes! > > My thought was also along with Ele and Rev... > > Op sort of has a point, it would take years of nerfs to 5+ classes to bring them in line with those 2... Would make sense to buff those and then see where it stands, make nerfs after those buffs (My ele is D/D... I need buffs plz) *cough* those were all literally taken from recent patch notes... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arheundel.6451 Posted May 26, 2018 Author Share Posted May 26, 2018 > @"Sinful.2165" said: > This makes zero sense. If something is overpowered why wouldn’t you tone it down instead of buffing everything else? > > Actually, you’re right. Let’s just skip all the buffing non sense until you inevitably arrive at the solution that everyone gets 1 dmg skill that 1 shots anyone and 2 dodges just to keep the games going longer than 10 seconds. Did you actually read the full post or just the title and made an assumption ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sinful.2165 Posted May 26, 2018 Share Posted May 26, 2018 > @"Arheundel.6451" said: > > @"Sinful.2165" said: > > This makes zero sense. If something is overpowered why wouldn’t you tone it down instead of buffing everything else? > > > > Actually, you’re right. Let’s just skip all the buffing non sense until you inevitably arrive at the solution that everyone gets 1 dmg skill that 1 shots anyone and 2 dodges just to keep the games going longer than 10 seconds. > > Did you actually read the full post or just the title and made an assumption ? Of course I read the whole post, suggesting that the devs intensify power creep by actively avoiding nerfs.. because the term has a negative connotation? Is ridiculous. Balance is a very delicate thing. Mistakes will be made, players will abuse things in ways the devs didn’t anticipate and adjustments up or down will need to be made. Why is that a difficult concept to grasp for people who are so against nerfing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arheundel.6451 Posted May 26, 2018 Author Share Posted May 26, 2018 > @"Sinful.2165" said: > > @"Arheundel.6451" said: > > > @"Sinful.2165" said: > > > This makes zero sense. If something is overpowered why wouldn’t you tone it down instead of buffing everything else? > > > > > > Actually, you’re right. Let’s just skip all the buffing non sense until you inevitably arrive at the solution that everyone gets 1 dmg skill that 1 shots anyone and 2 dodges just to keep the games going longer than 10 seconds. > > > > Did you actually read the full post or just the title and made an assumption ? > > Of course I read the whole post, suggesting that the devs intensify power creep by actively avoiding nerfs.. because the term has a negative connotation? Is ridiculous. Balance is a very delicate thing. Mistakes will be made, players will abuse things in ways the devs didn’t anticipate and adjustments up or down will need to be made. > > Why is that a difficult concept to grasp for people who are so against nerfing? > @"Sinful.2165" said: > > @"Arheundel.6451" said: > > > @"Sinful.2165" said: > > > This makes zero sense. If something is overpowered why wouldn’t you tone it down instead of buffing everything else? > > > > > > Actually, you’re right. Let’s just skip all the buffing non sense until you inevitably arrive at the solution that everyone gets 1 dmg skill that 1 shots anyone and 2 dodges just to keep the games going longer than 10 seconds. > > > > Did you actually read the full post or just the title and made an assumption ? > > Of course I read the whole post, suggesting that the devs intensify power creep by actively avoiding nerfs.. because the term has a negative connotation? Is ridiculous. Balance is a very delicate thing. Mistakes will be made, players will abuse things in ways the devs didn’t anticipate and adjustments up or down will need to be made. > > Why is that a difficult concept to grasp for people who are so against nerfing? Why is that difficult to understand that Anet will never nerf anything to acceptable levels...not anymore? The playerbase of this game has been fed on low risk=high reward mantra for years now...you remove that and you remove the players, it would be suicide for a company...Anet won't do that. There is no more room to talk or ideals, it's time to wake up and smell the coffie...the whole "competitive" dream is gone and it's not coming back anytime soon...**so it's time to stop this crap where you can train your dog to use 3-4 classes in this game...while you need a degree in applied physic to use other classes** how many examples like this do you need? https://image.noelshack.com/fichiers/2018/21/6/1527342997-ffff.jpg do you need more to get my point? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azure The Heartless.3261 Posted May 26, 2018 Share Posted May 26, 2018 > @"Arheundel.6451" said: > > @"Azure The Heartless.3261" said: > > > @"Arheundel.6451" said: > > > > > I realise now that no amount of nerfs will solve mesmer problem for example, the traitlines for this class are so....busted that's no matter what you nerf ..they can come up always on top so why keep nerfing them instead than buff the traitlines for all others? > > > > They're almost balanced. All that's left is Elusive mind. put a hefty ICD on it and the rest can be handled with learning the MU. > > > > > > You can talk about MU only when a class has at least 2 bad ones out of any meta...not when your only **possible** bad MU is an "unicorn" not meta build played at semi WTS levels, nerfing EM won't strip mirage of their OP elite **jaunt** with which they can outrun/catch...everything?!, won't remove their stealth into distortion and won't remove their GS one shot combo and also it won't remove their spammable reflect heal/trait combo....basically you can speak about MU when your spec stop having the edge over 99% of the game.. Jaunt isn't OP, and literally everything you mentioned can be handled by learning the matchup. any damage following a stun will put them on the defensive. The moment you put a, lets say, 90-120 ICD on EM that triggers whenever they remove stun, they have to think about what they'll do when their rotation gets interrupted. > @"Arheundel.6451" said: > > @"Sinful.2165" said: > > > @"Arheundel.6451" said: > > > > @"Sinful.2165" said: > > > > This makes zero sense. If something is overpowered why wouldn’t you tone it down instead of buffing everything else? > > > > > > > > Actually, you’re right. Let’s just skip all the buffing non sense until you inevitably arrive at the solution that everyone gets 1 dmg skill that 1 shots anyone and 2 dodges just to keep the games going longer than 10 seconds. > > > > > > Did you actually read the full post or just the title and made an assumption ? > > > > Of course I read the whole post, suggesting that the devs intensify power creep by actively avoiding nerfs.. because the term has a negative connotation? Is ridiculous. Balance is a very delicate thing. Mistakes will be made, players will abuse things in ways the devs didn’t anticipate and adjustments up or down will need to be made. > > > > Why is that a difficult concept to grasp for people who are so against nerfing? > > > @"Sinful.2165" said: > > > @"Arheundel.6451" said: > > > > @"Sinful.2165" said: > > > > This makes zero sense. If something is overpowered why wouldn’t you tone it down instead of buffing everything else? > > > > > > > > Actually, you’re right. Let’s just skip all the buffing non sense until you inevitably arrive at the solution that everyone gets 1 dmg skill that 1 shots anyone and 2 dodges just to keep the games going longer than 10 seconds. > > > > > > Did you actually read the full post or just the title and made an assumption ? > > > > Of course I read the whole post, suggesting that the devs intensify power creep by actively avoiding nerfs.. because the term has a negative connotation? Is ridiculous. Balance is a very delicate thing. Mistakes will be made, players will abuse things in ways the devs didn’t anticipate and adjustments up or down will need to be made. > > > > Why is that a difficult concept to grasp for people who are so against nerfing? > > Why is that difficult to understand that Anet will never nerf anything to acceptable levels...not anymore? > The playerbase of this game has been fed on low risk=high reward mantra for years now...you remove that and you remove the players, it would be suicide for a company...Anet won't do that. > > There is no more room to talk or ideals, it's time to wake up and smell the coffie...the whole "competitive" dream is gone and it's not coming back anytime soon...**so it's time to stop this crap where you can train your dog to use 3-4 classes in this game...while you need a degree in applied physic to use other classes** > > > how many examples like this do you need? > > https://image.noelshack.com/fichiers/2018/21/6/1527342997-ffff.jpg > do you need more to get my point? > > That was actually a really amazing play and overcoming cheese circles with a tiny group must have felt amazing. Face it, the game has changed. there's more cheese. We have to handle it or quit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Specialka.7290 Posted May 26, 2018 Share Posted May 26, 2018 I guess ppl are quitting since the playerbase is dwindling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malediktus.9250 Posted May 26, 2018 Share Posted May 26, 2018 No thanks . PvP is pretty horrible already because everyone is too powerful Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dralor.3701 Posted May 26, 2018 Share Posted May 26, 2018 I like after all these years of the game being out people still think if a class has more buttons it is “skill”. Sorry to break it to you but this game is a spamfest and has been devolving into more of one as opposed to improving. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MithranArkanere.8957 Posted May 26, 2018 Share Posted May 26, 2018 "We should go to the armory. That's where Zadorojny is likely to be." Now seriously, the last thing we need is more buffs and an even faster pace. To get a proper combat pace we'd need something like having all base health pools tripled, out of combat healing disabled in competitive areas, and healing effects reduced at least by half. Plus some sort of 'health exhaustion' effect in several skills that permanently reduces maximum health over a period of time that takes 10 times as much to be healed. That would get us longer fights and health that slowly goes down as the fight progresses without the possibility or reverting back to full health too fast, too often. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sephiroth.4217 Posted May 27, 2018 Share Posted May 27, 2018 > @"SlippyCheeze.5483" said: > > @"sephiroth.4217" said: > > > @"SlippyCheeze.5483" said: > > > > @"sephiroth.4217" said: > > > > > @"Brother.1504" said: > > > > > > @"SlippyCheeze.5483" said: > > > > > > > @"Arheundel.6451" said: > > > > > > > People like to call it "powercreep" ...but I like to call it : **"most sensible solution"** . > > > > > > > > > > > > Here is a secret: a buff to one class is the same as a nerf to all other classes! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Someone gets it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > Isn't that why OP asks to buff classes? > > > > > > > > Instead of nerfing 5 classes, why not buff 2-3. > > > > > > Hey, that's a great idea. Imagine if they were to, say, pick elementalist for that. They could increase the damage of Impale, Lightning Touch, Drake's Breath, Shatterstone, Ashen Blast, Steam Surge, and reduce the cooldown of things to make them usable more often, like Static Field, and Boil, and they could increase the defensive values of skills like Stone Resonance, or tune Glyph of Storms. > > > > > > They could buff Ranger too, imagine: increase the damage of Stab, and Jab, rework the final part of the sequence with a higher damage attack, buff ... > > > > > > ...or Thief. They could buff Thief. Imagine increasing the damage of Deadly Strike, Stab, and Jab! Increase the healing of Skelk Venom, drop the cooldown on Assassin's Signet, and Signet of Shadows. Bump up a whole slew of things. > > > > > > Just imagine a universe where ANet made those changes to a handful of classes! > > > > My thought was also along with Ele and Rev... > > > > Op sort of has a point, it would take years of nerfs to 5+ classes to bring them in line with those 2... Would make sense to buff those and then see where it stands, make nerfs after those buffs (My ele is D/D... I need buffs plz) > > *cough* those were all literally taken from recent patch notes... Oh I didn't realize D/D Tempest and Rev got a buff I need more buffs please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlippyCheeze.5483 Posted May 27, 2018 Share Posted May 27, 2018 > @"sephiroth.4217" said: > > @"SlippyCheeze.5483" said: > > > @"sephiroth.4217" said: > > > > @"SlippyCheeze.5483" said: > > > > > @"sephiroth.4217" said: > > > > > > @"Brother.1504" said: > > > > > > > @"SlippyCheeze.5483" said: > > > > > > > > @"Arheundel.6451" said: > > > > > > > > People like to call it "powercreep" ...but I like to call it : **"most sensible solution"** . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Here is a secret: a buff to one class is the same as a nerf to all other classes! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Someone gets it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Isn't that why OP asks to buff classes? > > > > > > > > > > Instead of nerfing 5 classes, why not buff 2-3. > > > > > > > > Hey, that's a great idea. Imagine if they were to, say, pick elementalist for that. They could increase the damage of Impale, Lightning Touch, Drake's Breath, Shatterstone, Ashen Blast, Steam Surge, and reduce the cooldown of things to make them usable more often, like Static Field, and Boil, and they could increase the defensive values of skills like Stone Resonance, or tune Glyph of Storms. > > > > > > > > They could buff Ranger too, imagine: increase the damage of Stab, and Jab, rework the final part of the sequence with a higher damage attack, buff ... > > > > > > > > ...or Thief. They could buff Thief. Imagine increasing the damage of Deadly Strike, Stab, and Jab! Increase the healing of Skelk Venom, drop the cooldown on Assassin's Signet, and Signet of Shadows. Bump up a whole slew of things. > > > > > > > > Just imagine a universe where ANet made those changes to a handful of classes! > > > > > > My thought was also along with Ele and Rev... > > > > > > Op sort of has a point, it would take years of nerfs to 5+ classes to bring them in line with those 2... Would make sense to buff those and then see where it stands, make nerfs after those buffs (My ele is D/D... I need buffs plz) > > > > *cough* those were all literally taken from recent patch notes... > > Oh I didn't realize D/D Tempest and Rev got a buff > I need more buffs please. Came a little whiles back, I skipped over all the buffs and reworks to underwater stuff for them. :) Seriously, though, the whole "ANet only nerf" narrative is just flat out wrong. They balance, which moves various things in both directions, and occasionally means a bigger rework. I'm just hoping my Scourge stays in the first bucket, not the second, because I have come to quite like the playstyle, and I'd be very happy for it to be a little more balanced without radically changing. Regardless, I know it will wind up in balance eventually... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTGuevara.9018 Posted May 27, 2018 Share Posted May 27, 2018 eh...no...sorry OP, this one-shot "meta" is GARBAGE. Nerf away. I give not one you-know-what about the "culture" of this community. All gaming communities are the same. They love buffs and hate nerfs. I've been through this same song and dance in other games and know how players behave. Nobody likes nerfs, nobody likes their mains to get the nerf axe. But, like it or not, nerfs are a part of balance. While I agree that passive nonsense and the ridiculous amounts of invulns need to go away, buffs are just more powercreep and are just going to drive what's left of people away. Nerf away I say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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