Remove elite spec req for weapons

[Nothing.8564]

I'm not 100% sure if this would be a good thing or a bad thing, but would it really be broken if you could use the new weapons released with elite specs without needing to spec into it?

 

I play a lot of necromancer and engineer and these two proffesions have limited weapon access so it got me thinking, since all of the weapons specific traits that make them stronger are found in the elite spec that you would be giving up, wouldn't it leave you with a balanced option?

 

Example; if I wanted to run greatsword with necromancer but not go into reaper, I couldn't take the 20% reduced cooldown GS trait. Isn't that a good enough tradeoff?

 

Would that fact alone mean it wouldn't be OP to give us the option for more customization? I'm not sure, what do y'all think?

[penelopehannibal.8947]

I don't think they'll do that. Mainly because if you could, you could also have two elite spec weapons equipped. For example, thief could be both Rifle (with PoF) & Staff without either elite spec being equipped.

[Exciton.8942]

Unfortunatley, many of the elite spec weapons are designed to go with the associated elite spec only. Changing that would require a complete redesign for many of them.

 

For example, holosmith sword has built-in heat mechanics.

Chronomancer shield provides good source of alacrity and quickness.

 

Or think about giving deadeye rifle to daredevil. It would be kinda broken.

[Nothing.8564]

> @Exciton.8942 said:

> Unfortunatley, many of the elite spec weapons are designed to go with the associated elite spec only. Changing that would require a complete redesign for many of them.

>

> For example, holosmith sword has built-in heat mechanics.

> Chronomancer shield provides good source of alacrity and quickness.

>

> Or think about giving deadeye rifle to daredevil. It would be kinda broken.

 

Yeah, I could see how those examples would kill this idea.

[MixolydianGray.6578]

The whole point of the elite specs is that they're supposed to be different. They're supposed to be special. If a standard necro (to use your example) could use a reaper's sword, then what makes the reaper special? Yeah, you still have the reaper spec, but as someone above mentioned, the elite spec weapons are put together with that spec in mind. Yeah, a necro running around with a greatsword sounds cool, but what would that accomplish?

[Carighan.6758]

While the idea is interesting, I can't see it work.

 

Too many elite weapons either work intrinsically with the elite spec's mechanic or role (like Ranger Staff) or are balance-wise not useful without their associated traits and elements (Reaper, Mirage and Daredevil come to mind).

[Menadena.7482]

Remember an elite can still use base weapons and does not even need to use the new weapon spec at all. Which much make balancing an elite interesting as a lot of its gameplay might be the same as the base profession.

[typographie.1742]

> @Nothing.8564 said:

> I'm not 100% sure if this would be a good thing or a bad thing, but would it really be broken if you could use the new weapons released with elite specs without needing to spec into it?

 

I don't think the restriction of new weapons to elite specializations is purely an issue of how "OP" it would be otherwise. It might be in some cases, and not in others. But the point is to give an elite specialization a unique identity and a unique role that the base class couldn't do.

 

In some cases having those weapons on the base class wouldn't even make any sense. You're not going to come up with a build where a non-druid ranger is going to get use out of the staff, or a condi warrior build that justifies using a torch but lacks the Berserker traits. The chronomancer's shield is significant a source of alacrity, which is one of the most important things that differentiates a chronomancer from a mesmer.

[Substance E.4852]

Even if they were to do this, they would need to re-balance a large amount of weapons since all of them were designed with the assumption that they would be gated behind the elite spec and couldn't be combined with another espec weapon or mechanic.

 

Once the dust settled, I doubt anyone would be happy with the results. You could combine weapons, but most would be weaker than what we have now.

[wolfyrik.2017]

I would like this to be the case for Scrapper's Hammer. Unlock the weapon on completion of the elite spec. Sadly engi weapons choice is utterly horrific and the hammer is the most balanced weapon engis have access to. Holosmith without hammer is going to be a pain, especially with shield's extreme cooldowns. Base Engi is a pain without hammer. This is all the more unfortunate because scrapper is kind of worthless in PvE. The class as a whole needs Hammer baseline. I don't feel that this would so necessary for another HoT elite weapon. Base Engi just feels kind of incomplete without a balanced two-hand weapon.

[DaShi.1368]

The weapons for the current elite specs aren't as closely tied to the specs as the weapons for the new elite specs. Had they not done this with the new elite specs, I could see liberating the weapons.

[MixolydianGray.6578]

> @typographie.1742 said:

> In some cases having those weapons on the base class wouldn't even make any sense. You're not going to come up with a build where a non-druid ranger is going to get use out of the staff, or a condi warrior build that justifies using a torch but lacks the Berserker traits. The chronomancer's shield is significant a source of alacrity, which is one of the most important things that differentiates a chronomancer from a mesmer.

 

As a druid main, I concur. I really don't see what I would gain by using staff just for the sake of staff. I imagine it's a similar thing for thief/daredevil. The whole point of those weapons is to give abilities to us that we wouldn't otherwise have.

[Silvoshipnos.2089]

Additionally, this way they have the option of releasing new specializations with the same weapons earlier specs had

[Akrib.4297]

I really wish we could use multiple specs together, because some classes really benefit from some weapons they have compared to others. Just to try and play the new elite specs you have to give up the old ones. It seems like we are really losing build diversity by being locked in like this. It was bad enough with classes being weapon restricted but now I can't use two weapons meant for my class at the same time makes it even less enjoyable.

[Zenith.7301]

Power necro is unplayable in PvE without the greatsword, and daredevil staff is too important to power DPS specs anyways.

 

Tying weapons to elite spec makes no sense and only restricts build diversity as there are many elite spec weapons tied to terrible traitlines like reaper or scrapper which could benefit massively from dumping those garbage traitlines to be viable in PvE.

 

I see no reason whatsoever for why ele warhorn can't be used with sword, it's a perfect combo for a frontline.

[lmaogg.7325]

Bad idea. I like the design of weapon locking to specific specs. Changing it is only removing part of that little uniqueness left in the elite specs. Might as well remove elite specs from Xpac as a whole and add it to base game.

[Ghostt.1293]

Im all for it fk everyone bootlicking anet decsicions

they don't have to change sht

The wep is only better if you use the trait in the elite spec. With out the traitline it's just another option

I want to gs without reaper or sANd shRoUd

[Coulter.2315]

Bad idea, so much more difficulty balancing and also takes some of the flavour from the elite specs.

[MithranArkanere.8957]

While I do think there's missing weapons in some of the core professions, I don't think making elite specialization weapons core should be the solution.

 

Take core revenant. They were designed to be a single weapon profession, but that didn't work well for them. But when they got weapon swap, that resulted in them essentially having half a weapon set. Adding individual weapons would not fix that. Even with the renegade's shortbow, Revenants are still missing something 1h axe used as a condition-based throwing weapon, so core revenant can equip two condition weapons or two ranged weapons if they want.

 

All other professions that have a weapon swap have a choice to have both weapons focus on one of the 3 main offensive mechanics: Control, Direct damage and Condition damage. But while core revenant can deal direct damage with both weapons, or break bars with both weapons, they can't focus on condition damage with both weapons.

 

 

 

 

[sorudo.9054]

Well, i don't see why the weapon should be restricted, there is nothing OP about any of that.

[RabbitUp.8294]

> @MithranArkanere.8957 said:

> While I do think there's missing weapons in some of the core professions, I don't think making elite specialization weapons core should be the solution.

>

> Take core revenant. They were designed to be a single weapon profession, but that didn't work well for them. But when they got weapon swap, that resulted in them essentially having half a weapon set. Adding individual weapons would not fix that. Even with the renegade's shortbow, Revenants are still missing something 1h axe used as a condition-based throwing weapon, so core revenant can equip two condition weapons or two ranged weapons if they want.

>

> All other professions that have a weapon swap have a choice to have both weapons focus on one of the 3 main offensive mechanics: Control, Direct damage and Condition damage. But while core revenant can deal direct damage with both weapons, or break bars with both weapons, they can't focus on condition damage with both weapons.

 

Like how guardian has a choice of condi weapons?

 

[Marthkus.4615]

Elite specs have to be rethought eventually. Once we have more elite specs than normal trait lines, I would expect a complete rework of the system.

[Warlyx.6732]

then new elites fail to deliver ....tons of new "elite only weapons" are lackluster and not even used...and is sad because i wanted to use sword on my ele ....for example