Which is the more toxic meta: HoT or PoF?

[X T D.6458]

> @"Kovu.7560" said:

> > @"X T D.6458" said:

> > People seem to forget the godawful boonball epidemic meta. Best meta was pre stability nerf hammer train.

>

> You're right on both your points, but what we have right now is still less fun than boonball. At least back then melee was an option and there were more than two professions.

>

> ~ Kovu

 

What we have now is a direct result of the HoT boonball meta, which was a direct result of the pirate ship meta that came after the stability nerf. Change happens, people just need to learn to adapt.

 

Ele has moved back to glassy builds thanks to several damage buffs, at least in zerg builds. Guardian is still running tanky support builds, less damage than in the past but highly effective sustain. Warriors may not add any aoe damage but if they properly coordinate their WoD's it can make or break a fight. Revs took some damage nerfs but still put out great damage and support and are more viable now since resistance is no longer converted to immobilize. Mesmers can provide great support, and utility for zergs like always. Necromancers function essentially the same as always where they bring high pressure burst damage except now they can provide some group support at the cost of losing access to Shroud.

 

So I reject the idea that this is a 2 class meta, it is still a GWENRM meta imo. A lot of people complaining about Scourge stacking but this is the only way to counter boon spamming, and this was only encouraged because of the numerous nerfs that were given to Scourge, for example less damage, higher cooldowns, less cleanse/boon conversions, higher life force costs. All these nerfs made it necessary to add more Scourges to a group because there is no other way to counter every groups natural desire to ball up and spam boons.

[Kovu.7560]

I mean you can run any of all nine professions. I bring a ranger that delivers high single target damage, group support and aoe stab every half a minute.

Doesn't make it the optimal choice. Yes, you can run a not guard/necro but you do so knowing you're making a sub optimal selection. This is more noticeable today than in any previous meta.

 

~ Kovu

[Dawdler.8521]

The thing with the reaper meta is that they still had the same AoE as a necro *but* was limited to melee in shroud and thus really voulnerable to kiting. Even in the disastrous deathly chill meta, they had flaws. It was a tradeoff.

 

For scourge, no such thing. More ranged AoE, constant melee AoE, no ranged limitation in shroud and such a ridiculous amount of anti-crit barriers its insane. Anytime someone says "well you can kite them booo cry more" I laugh. They still seem to live in the HoT world.

[Offair.2563]

I went for PoF as it just adds to the problems, rather then taking care of it.

[Blockhead Magee.3092]

Toxic - the latest in a line of buzz words to be used to mean something other than what it started as.

[MadBomber.3719]

i really enjoyed the end of HoT when radiance guards were buffed. probably the closest the game was to pre HoT. brought HoT out of toiletbowl meta and brought big damage back into the game. leaping in on guardian with greatsword again was awesome. too bad it only lasted a month or two then PoF came out :'(

[coro.3176]

Currently PoF, but if they got rid of a few traits (Elusive Mind, Sand Savant), it'd probably be okay.

[Jeknar.6184]

PoF with all the No-Fun-Zones (Winds of Disenchantment and Scourge Sand Shades) make me wanna fight all the epidemic Deathly Chill reapers again...

[X T D.6458]

> @"Kovu.7560" said:

> I mean you can run any of all nine professions. I bring a ranger that delivers high single target damage, group support and aoe stab every half a minute.

> Doesn't make it the optimal choice. Yes, you can run a not guard/necro but you do so knowing you're making a sub optimal selection. This is more noticeable today than in any previous meta.

>

> ~ Kovu

 

Ranger was never optimal in zerging. Neither is single target damage.

[Kovu.7560]

> @"X T D.6458" said:

> > @"Kovu.7560" said:

> > I mean you can run any of all nine professions. I bring a ranger that delivers high single target damage, group support and aoe stab every half a minute.

> > Doesn't make it the optimal choice. Yes, you can run a not guard/necro but you do so knowing you're making a sub optimal selection. This is more noticeable today than in any previous meta.

> >

> > ~ Kovu

>

> Ranger was never optimal in zerging. Neither is single target damage.

 

Which is entirely my point. _Nothing_ is "optimal" compared to the big two. Ranger was merely an example.

 

~ Kovu

[Felipe.1807]

Scourge....thats all I have to say

[jsp.6912]

hot = pirate ship, are u serious ?

hot = first ball full sustain minstrell rollface

 

(i voted pof because the meta it's both spec full hot and pof)

 

wvw is dead with expansion rip

[Soggy Biscuit.9372]

PoF WvW is ebola. Some people still insist skillz will always triumph over this retard-proof meta, but that's just delusional, end of story.

 

Edit: Bonus point, it's garbage in terms of aesthetics too. It's just two armies of moaning and groaning morons swinging their sticks up and down.

[Taltevus.3289]

> @"Hoodie.1045" said:

> Path of Fire brought us the Scourge, the Mirage (two annoying condition specializations), the Deadeye (a specialization that goes against the thiefs' theme of being a silent killer), the Spellbreaker (core warrior set on easy mode) and Holosmith (the most pathetic excuse for an engineer specialization).

>

> The Deadeye is without a doubt the worst thief specialization. I don't know what ArenaNet was thinking with this specialization. I guess it's fine in PvE, but in PvP I just don't understand how it could even work. Both core and Daredevil thief counter the Deadeye, especially if they are good.

>

> Scourge and Mirage are both condition specializations and I hate condition specializations. Scourge could've been the support specialization which focuses on pulling allies out of fights and rallying them, but instead most Scourges are just selfish and focus on damage.

>

> Spellbreaker is what neutered the warrior. It turned the warrior from a great war leader to a weakling. It took the skill of carefully timing your attacks and blocks and replaced it for a stupid Full Counter which is just a crutch skill that rewards bad warriors for not dodging or blocking at the right time. Spellbreakers would rather trade sustain for CC which to me it's one of the dumbest things any warrior would do.

>

> And finally we have the Holosmith. I never liked the Holosmith. As someone who's been playing core engineer for 5 years, I have never been so disappointed in ArenaNet and how they managed to ruin the engineers' reputation with this elite specialization. All of the kit skill memorization, swapping from one kit to another, the weapons that made the engineer capable of fighting foes in almost every situation has been thrown out of the window and was replaced with a dumbed down, braindead fighter. You don't need to learn or know how to use kits. All you have to do is press a single button and congratulations, you've now become Super Saiyan Blue.

>

> The main reason why I don't like the Holosmith is because it's easier to play than core engineer, but also because it manages to achieve more than core engineer by doing less. Comparing core engineer to the Holosmith is like the real life equivalent of a student taking a test that is more difficult than the test that his/her colleague is taking. The student with the harder test gets a 90% on the test because that student studied for days, if not weeks, whereas the other student barely studied and still managed to receive the same or better grade. That is why I don't like the Holosmith.

>

> I'm not going to pretend that the HoT elite specializations were perfect. But what I can say is that the HoT specializations were better thought out than the PoF specializations.

 

Remember...PoF was rushed...I seem to remember declining sales and...something along the lines of, "an expansion is needed asap." Lol.

People forget, I do not. I remember the train-wreck that was HoT/going F2P...and PoF in my opinion only BOLSTERED the people who are carried by pay to win...as far as PvP goes becasue the class balance was atrocious from the JUMP...ALONG WITH THE BULLS--"BARRIER", lol I wish someone would dare say PoF is not P2W. Core and HoT specs certainly didn't get access to a seemingly crit reducing Barrier.

 

I haven't Bought PoF and no matter how many PoF specs I lose to I won't be buying it at all. Because I see that manipulative way to drive purchases based on your desire to win. Well, we've seen what happens when you cater to those that thrive in EasyMode...Winning doesn't mean anything. These people are willing to Share accounts, hack, win-trade, and do whatever is necessary to win, the health of the game be damned. Again...as far as PvP is concerned.

 

I will say HoT sounded worse...becasue it was truly new. People were way more mouthy in HoT. There were New Systems, and Mechanics, and everyone wanted to be Know-it-all about what's to know. Typical...which is fine. It was new.

 

I feel like the only people in significant numbers that are playing this game now are the ones who really don't give any fucks about the overall health of the game as far as competitiveness goes (and by proxy fun) but, just as long as they (anet) ruin everyone else but me. Nerf them buff me type crap.

I feel like most of the players here KNOW PoF is vastly worse...but Players that know better are really at witts end, Conjecture I know but, I mean...They grumble but, I have yet to see one ground breaking source of feedback slip through these forums since PoF...They realize this is the fate of Gw2. This is it, PoF type shit is all that's going to be coming out of Arenanet. The next expansion pack is going to do this same kind of bull. I think players have lost hope in Gw2 to be something great.

 

Yeah a lot of people bitched at Arenanet becasue they wanted better for and from them. I feel like a lot of players have given up in this way after PoF. Arenanet had better be greatful Bless is in a PR nightmare right now...becasue that would've been the end of this nonsense.

You don't have to admit it would be bless becasue it WILL be any other game...people are here not becasue they want to be but because there's not really any other option.

This is well more apparent in PoF than HoT. Gw2 is familiar...that's it. Am I projecting? A little and so is everyone else.

 

So in this sense I think there's a lot greater risk for loss after PoF and why I definitely think it's made a much more sickening experience.

So in Terms of the META itself:

1. The Specs were rushed and poorly designed.

2. Arenanet doubled down with Path of Fire by recreating an environment that spawned (even more) unfair, non-competitive class interaction.

3. While players are not as mouthy in HoT I feel that there are vastly more players thriving on broken mechanics; the shifts are VERY noticeable when nerfs are handed out.

 

The above three points were present in HoT and the fact that they've returned with more drastic output to me is just obviously objectively worse

[samo.1054]

I haven't joined a public zerg for a few months now, I stopped soon after PoF was released. I knew it's going to be a fuckup as soon as I saw the new specs reveal and I wasn't wrong. After trying for a little while I stopped playing in public zergs and now a few months later I feel like I will stop guild raiding as well. Roaming is still somewhat acceptable altho it suffers for the same reason. Too many new specs are just cheese over cheese with too much of everything and the worst of it all, they are NOT fun to play.

 

Full minstrel FB cycling their books, spamming heals and other BS - not fun

Scourge facerolling over their Shades skills with no casting time like no tomorrow

Spellbreakers yoloing all over the place to drop their bubbles

Mirages being the bullshit that everyone knows them for

etc etc

 

I did not like the HoT meta for quite a while, but at least I enjoyed playing vanilla guard, reaper and destroyer berserker in zergs

On top of all that, the visual clutter went WAAAAY beyond acceptable levels with Shade spam and warrior bubbles.

 

Bottom line, PoF was a disastrous release as far as WvW goes, disastrous. But in a way, it's our own fault that we play it this way - That's why I stopped zerging and changed my approach to WvW :)

[DanAlcedo.3281]

Who thinks that PoF is worse then HoT has not played WvW in HoT.

Remember:

Unnerfed Epidemic

The time when Rev could oneshot Full Soldier Gear Guards no problem and CoR hit 15 targets and sometime double?

The time you could get 100% immun to power dmg?

When some mesmers could give an 50+ zergs all boon perma?

 

Condi Shout Reaper? I take scourge everyday over that.

The general pure condi meta that only could be counterd by Boon Share mesmer?

 

Remember when Dragonhunter Bow 5 was broken?

 

People really need to put down there nostalgia glasses.

 

HoT was the worst WvW we ever had.

 

[Aeolus.3615]

> @"samo.1054" said:

> (...)

>

> Bottom line, PoF was a disastrous release as far as WvW goes, disastrous. But in a way, it's our own fault that we play it this way - That's why I stopped zerging and changed my approach to WvW :)

 

No, it is not players fault.... if ANet adds a class than 1 shot every one and is AOE, and every one starts playing that in every mode, it is not players fault to make the gameplay bad, ANet dev's need to kinda understand the outcome of what they release, usually game developers tend to understand that when designing stuff to the game..........

 

[Solori.6025]

> @"DanAlcedo.3281" said:

> Who thinks that PoF is worse then HoT has not played WvW in HoT.

> Remember:

> Unnerfed Epidemic

> The time when Rev could oneshot Full Soldier Gear Guards no problem and CoR hit 15 targets and sometime double?

> The time you could get 100% immun to power dmg?

> When some mesmers could give an 50+ zergs all boon perma?

>

> Condi Shout Reaper? I take scourge everyday over that.

> The general pure condi meta that only could be counterd by Boon Share mesmer?

>

> Remember when Dragonhunter Bow 5 was broken?

>

> People really need to put down there nostalgia glasses.

>

> HoT was the worst WvW we ever had.

>

 

You forgot to mention the real perma evade headshot spam thief, perma alacrity chrono, one shot DH traps, power zerkers when they were unnerfed. HoT started the dangerous path for Anet, and they have not made it better

[samo.1054]

Honestly it's a little funny that it revolves down to us "arguing" which meta was worse. Both were/are bad.

 

We can all agree that both exp packs have introduced some very unhealthy power creep that made WvW unenjoyable. Power creep actually started with Trait + stat system rework that happened a little before HoT release. Everything since then has imo been going downhill with power creep going strong all the way to present day. Recent skill splitting might be a sign of better times, but there's still a looooong way to go, way too many things have gone out of control.

[Nath Forge Tempete.1645]

Seems like most people didn't play ealry HOT meta in spvp or WvW ... everlasting fights ... ending to timer for a score : 150-85

 

Celestial amulets + all tankier amulet such as soldier , cleric , or the one with healing power and toughness

 

Imagine those amulets with all the defensives abilities on HOT specs : chronomancer , tempest , druids . And remember they weren't nerfed yet .