Is necro bad in party pve?

[Runo.3780]

I'm aware that necro is bad in open pve because he is slow (though he has pretty damn good survivability so maybe it's not that bad :D?), but I was wondering about something that one person said on the in-game chat. In short he said that noone like to play with necromancer in organized pve since it has no purpose and lack of dps. Ppl started to discuss and became a little toxic about this so I thought that I will ask on the forum and see what you say without the toxicity since the forum community is really nice :).

 

[Blocki.4931]

Base necro? Lackluster compared to elite specs but still usable if you like the playstyle.

 

Power Reaper is alright

 

Condi Scourge is very strong, support and damage wise top tier. Ignore the angry talk of some idiots who don't even know what they are talking about lol

[Dadnir.5038]

The necromancer is not "bad" in party pve, it's just that pve is not adapted to what a necromancer offer which lead to the necromancer often seen as a selfish character with below average dps.

 

What shackle the necromancer is mainly that he offer otpions that are designed to perform well in PvP/WvW environment but perform poorly in PvE. In PvE, a necromancer will start to shine when he is not the sole necromancer in the group.

 

One thing that one have to keep in mind is that, comparatively, a necromancer's dps is more reliable than most other profession's dps (even if it's potential is lower than other professions).

 

All in all:

- core: is fine as a condi dps in raids. (still it's not optimal but should be decent in proper hands)

- reaper: is fine as a condi dps in fractal and raid while you'll favor power in dungeons.

- scourge: is fine in fractal and raid as condi spec. (the more you stack scourge the better it become)

 

Keep in mind that most of the potential of the necromancer in PvE group content depend on epidemic which is why it perform better the more necromancers are stacked in the group.

[Manpag.6421]

Keep in mind that the necro has the absolute best access to passive resses with the likes of Vampiric Rituals, Transfusion & Life from Death, as well as Signet of Undeath. In group PvE they may not be the best DPS, but even core necro can be a powerful support option; Transfusion's res and pull can single-handedly save a group in certain scenarios. Not many people play Necro as support, though.

[Ziooo.8932]

Necros are not bad in instanced PvE . Just subpar, niche at best.

[Catchyfx.5768]

Necro is good for

-condi management without dmg loss

-fastest rezz (if traited)

-Boonhate,Booncorrupt (if boss doesnt have protection everyone give 30% more dmg)

-reaper-great breakbar dmg

-vampiric presence(little dmg boost and tiny heal)

-Scourge-bariers

 

all this + low/avarage dmg = necro

 

Necro isn't some great dmg dealer but can make endgame pve more "esier" for other classes, so they can pick up more dps builds.

 

Necro is kinda sellfish support class(which contradicts), you dont offer anything to allies(ok bariers), but you cripple enemies boons into condi and turns conditions on allies into boons.

 

I likely trade 1 ele(top dps) for 1 necro(if know how to play necro) in my group. Utility baby.

 

[ErgoProxy.9074]

Buff Reaper

[Nimon.7840]

> @"Manpag.6421" said:

> Keep in mind that the necro has the absolute best access to passive resses with the likes of Vampiric Rituals, Transfusion & Life from Death, as well as Signet of Undeath. In group PvE they may not be the best DPS, but even core necro can be a powerful support option; Transfusion's res and pull can single-handedly save a group in certain scenarios. Not many people play Necro as support, though.

 

Way too high cooldowns and no reliable boon support.

 

> @"Catchyfx.5768" said:

> Necro is good for

> -condi management without dmg loss

> -fastest rezz (if traited)

> -Boonhate,Booncorrupt (if boss doesnt have protection everyone give 30% more dmg)

> -reaper-great breakbar dmg

> -vampiric presence(little dmg boost and tiny heal)

> -Scourge-bariers

>

> all this + low/avarage dmg = necro

>

> Necro isn't some great dmg dealer but can make endgame pve more "esier" for other classes, so they can pick up more dps builds.

>

> Necro is kinda sellfish support class(which contradicts), you dont offer anything to allies(ok bariers), but you cripple enemies boons into condi and turns conditions on allies into boons.

>

> I likely trade 1 ele(top dps) for 1 necro(if know how to play necro) in my group. Utility baby.

>

 

 

Reaper breakbeat dmg isn't mentionable while mesmers are out there and you need to give up a whole lot dmg if you want to do cc.

Boonhate and boon corrupts, that's what other classes can do better (rev/spellbreaker)

Rezzes: ele is just a way better healer and has also very fast rezzes.

 

The only reason for taking scourges is epidemic and barriers.

[reikken.4961]

Necro in general is awful for speed runs outside of epidemic strats in raids, but it has a lot of built in defense, so it's generally more reliable.

 

Reaper (and core) is _very_ naturally tanky--the tankiest baseline in the game. By playing it over another class, you're trading damage to gain personal defense. It makes you less likely to die but doesn't otherwise help your group in any way. You do less damage than other classes and don't offer any party buffs, so some people look down on that. But on the other hand, being tankier _is_ helpful. Going down hurts the party most of all, as not only do you stop doing damage, but also others have to stop to pick you up, and sometimes even have to put themselves in danger to do so. Also, even if you don't down, if you have to play defensively to not die, that also cuts your damage output by a lot. So it has pros and cons. It's possible that you contribute more damage than you would playing a higher damage class. (Also while we're talking about things people don't like, another thing to note is that because you can't get heals while in shroud, if you have a healer in your party, a poorly managed shroud can be very annoying for them.)

 

Scourge is similar--less damage, more defense--but while still having more base defense than most classes, it trades some of that extra defense for a little bit of party support. Scourge also has a support build that's worth talking about. It's very good at keeping party members alive and does more damage than most other defensive support builds. It doesn't offer much in the way of offensive buffs, so again some people look down on it, but again, it's one of the best builds in the game at keeping party members alive, so I give it a strong recommendation for unorganized groups.

 

But all that said, the most important thing for a new player to keep in mind if playing only necro is that if you rely too heavily on the class's defense, it can keep you from getting better at avoiding damage.

[Catchyfx.5768]

 

>

> Reaper breakbeat dmg isn't mentionable while mesmers are out there and you need to give up a whole lot dmg if you want to do cc.

> Boonhate and boon corrupts, that's what other classes can do better (rev/spellbreaker)

> Rezzes: ele is just a way better healer and has also very fast rezzes.

>

> The only reason for taking scourges is epidemic and barriers.

 

yeah but ele need to be healer, power reaper with zerker full dps have traited full rez power

sure others have boonhate and better, but we have it bound to our weapons so no need to change utility

 

this just look on that how mesmers are superior :) top breakbar dmg,top buffer, top tank :)

 

 

 

 

[Sublimatio.6981]

> @"Dadnir.5038" said:

> The necromancer is not "bad" in party pve, it's just that pve is not adapted to what a necromancer offer which lead to the necromancer often seen as a selfish character with below average dps.

= bad

[ErgoProxy.9074]

nerf mesmer/warrior/ele to where everyone is on equal playing fields and we good LUL

[Jasonbdj.4021]

I've been playing reaper in T4 fractals lately, not really had any issues and find it useful in situations.

 

Reaper isn't one of the top best performance, but I simply enjoy the game-play with the reaper (therefore reaching its max its potential)

 

 

 

[Anchoku.8142]

Necomancer's primary purpose is in debuffing. Bosses have Defiant, which resists many of Necromancer's conditions. This makes Necro different for different content.

 

All Necro builds can use Epidemic. This is the one skill most desired by groups.

 

However, Reaper has more power and condi dps so it is often accepted even though dps is not high. Scourge has good condi dps and barriers, which is the next most requested skill, I think.

[Eekasqueak.7850]

Scourge can easily be built for amazing boon stripping/corruption, condi DPS and support/> @"Nimon.7840" said:

> > @"Manpag.6421" said:

> > Keep in mind that the necro has the absolute best access to passive resses with the likes of Vampiric Rituals, Transfusion & Life from Death, as well as Signet of Undeath. In group PvE they may not be the best DPS, but even core necro can be a powerful support option; Transfusion's res and pull can single-handedly save a group in certain scenarios. Not many people play Necro as support, though.

>

> Way too high cooldowns and no reliable boon support.

>

> > @"Catchyfx.5768" said:

> > Necro is good for

> > -condi management without dmg loss

> > -fastest rezz (if traited)

> > -Boonhate,Booncorrupt (if boss doesnt have protection everyone give 30% more dmg)

> > -reaper-great breakbar dmg

> > -vampiric presence(little dmg boost and tiny heal)

> > -Scourge-bariers

> >

> > all this + low/avarage dmg = necro

> >

> > Necro isn't some great dmg dealer but can make endgame pve more "esier" for other classes, so they can pick up more dps builds.

> >

> > Necro is kinda sellfish support class(which contradicts), you dont offer anything to allies(ok bariers), but you cripple enemies boons into condi and turns conditions on allies into boons.

> >

> > I likely trade 1 ele(top dps) for 1 necro(if know how to play necro) in my group. Utility baby.

> >

>

>

> Reaper breakbeat dmg isn't mentionable while mesmers are out there and you need to give up a whole lot dmg if you want to do cc.

> Boonhate and boon corrupts, that's what other classes can do better (rev/spellbreaker)

> Rezzes: ele is just a way better healer and has also very fast rezzes.

>

> The only reason for taking scourges is epidemic and barriers.

 

Spellbreaker strips boons better but Scourge actively turns boons into more DPS which is arguably better.

[Blood Red Arachnid.2493]

Overall the necromancer can vary wildly in effectiveness, but overall a well played necromancer can be a great asset to any team. The weakness of Power Reaper is that after it drops its wells and cooldowns it loses a lot of steam. The weaknes of the condi scourge is that it has one of the slowest ramp-ups in the game, taking forever to get the steam going. Otherwise, the necromancer has a wide toolbox of skills fir for most occasions, and also the only force multiplying skill in the game via Epidemic.

 

The key term here is "well played". You have to know the skills, know what they are good for, and swap between them between fights to use what is needed both for the team, and for that encounter. This is where we encounter the big problem with necromancer: It attracts bad players. Thematically it is edgelord, and because of the high health pool it is tanky and easy to play. Whether players simply don't learn what is good, or they have actively decided to just be lazy, Necromancers have gained infamy because of it. I've had necromancers unironically tell me that all they needed to do was Auto attack in order to "be good."

 

Hell, just yesterday I was on a team that had 3 condi scourges, and they were all terrible. Not only did none of them run Epidemic, but when groups of enemies kept one-shotting us not a single one of them bothered to use Well of Darkness to fix that issue. They just kept dying over and over, long before they could ramp up to get good damage, running around scatterbrained and making it hard to cleave enemies.

 

Playing as a necromancer, the greatest obstacle you'll encounter is fighting low expectations.

[Dadnir.5038]

> The key term here is "well played". You have to know the skills, know what they are good for, and swap between them between fights to use what is needed both for the team, and for that encounter. This is where we encounter the big problem with necromancer: It attracts bad players. Thematically it is edgelord, and because of the high health pool it is tanky and easy to play. Whether players simply don't learn what is good, or they have actively decided to just be lazy, Necromancers have gained infamy because of it. I've had necromancers unironically tell me that all they needed to do was Auto attack in order to "be good."

 

I'd tend to disagree with this statement simply because, in PvE, the necromancer have suffered from being subpar since launch. In the vanilla game it wasn't even an option for dungeons due to the heavy reliance on power damage and the fact that the necromancer was bad at it (not to mention that reliable blast, usefull field, movement skill, block/evade... etc. were needed). After that in HoT, the necromancer and the reaper continously amongst the bottom level dps, lacking support on top of that which grant this profession a poor popularity since the guilds at the front of raids clear didn't even consider to take a necromancer in outside of a few first try to make it "safe".

 

The necromancer definitely suffered more in PvE from it's history of being subpar than from bad or lazy players. If the necromancer want a bit of popularity in PvE it will need a specialization that make him deal competitive damage in an appealing manner and not through underhanded means like "corruption" which need boons to be effective. PvE is neither PvP nor WvW, PvE barely use what the necromancer is good at while PvP and WvW are very suitable for the necromancer's tools. As long as Anet will try desperately to make PvP/WvW tools work in PvE, there will be poor result in PvE and gamebreaking result in PvP/WvW (scourge is the perfect example of that)

[Asum.4960]

The problem is that what Necro offers isn't really needed anywhere in PvE, and/or there are other classes that perform way better in that area.

 

Necro's **survivability** isn't worth much considering everybody stacks on a Druid and Chrono anyway, with most other classes actually having better tools to survive clutch moments, such as blocks.

**Boon removal** generally isn't needed, and when it is, a Spellbreaker or Mesmer perform better, while also providing other essential stuff to the group like 9 boons and Banners + EA.

**CC** wise, Necro isn't that fantastic at either actually. Compared to what Chronos and Druid's bring anyway. For CC heavy fight, you would bring one or two core BS, and something like a dps Spb is better burst, better dps, far more CC, while also having boon removal, all just as part of the rotation, not even loosing dps using it, quite the opposite.

**Damage** wise, Necro is behind pretty much every popular dps build and class, except for the fights where you can stack Necros and bounce Epidemics. Another problem is Condi damage, which just isn't as wanted in most content, especially after it was nerfed due to community outcry of being too strong, when it was already struggling to keep up with Power damage. Most Raid bosses and all of Fractals heavily favour Power DPS, where Necro is behind even more.

**Support** wise, the only thing Necro generally has to offer are things good groups don't need. As was mentioned, Necro is good at ressing people. Now, how many groups like to think of themselves as needing a lot of resses going into difficult content? Even if Necro wouldn't loose even more DPS to get that ressing power, the comparably low DPS of Necro is the only thing that makes these resses needed, as the group will not phase bosses as quickly, taking more punishment from mechanics.

No stability or Aegis or much of anything else on Necro, especially not group wide.

Even Scourges Barrier's don't make up for the increased punishment taken from the DPS loss compared to taking another DPS instead.

 

While it is my favourite class, I barely play it any more since months, except for sometimes kiting at Sabatha or for Epi at MO to make that fight even easier.

Necro for PvE needs a rework at least on the scale of the "recent" Mesmer changes, since years.

 

All that said, would something like a Harrier Scourge help beginner groups in raids clear the content much more easily? Sure. But why not learn the proper way to begin with. Learning and avoiding mechanics will always be better than running a ress bot just for those who can't be bothered to.

[eaman.7562]

In my exp in fractals when i see a party with some necro I'm pretty confident that we will manage to get to the end without any drama. In PUGs I'd rather have a necro then a weaver or a thief, necro can do good damage in a bad party and when you get a mortal cocktail of singularities the ressing traits can turn the tide.

 

That's why "scourge party" (maybe with a non necro healer) is a thing and works pretty well. Again: that's for fractal PUGs, necro can do those with no healer and no chrono.

[ReaverKane.7598]

Necro, even scourge, has a poor damage output for PvE. Scourge, especially, derives most of it's damage from corrupting boons, and rarely will you see boons on PvE mobs.

What Scourge needs is a effect split like mesmers have for confusion, that allows for a better damage output in PvE.

Power Reaper needs a bit of love in terms of attack speed mostly. If not attack speed, then in base damage numbers. Since atm it's not hitting hard enough to make up for the intentionally slow and ponderous attacks.

Core Necro is core necro... It was the most gimped pre-HoT class, and it's not much better off atm.

[alez.2137]

Scourge in PVE is absolutely trash. In terms of going on top of dps table there is no reason to use scourge in a 1-mob boss fight.

The only time in which you will see scourge in the top dps is when fighting against multiple oponents and just because of epidemic.

[velocity.4621]

pro tip : ignore them, you enjoy necro? play with it...don't let them tell you how to play the game...and laugh to those who dies more often than you...