The complete changes PvP needs

[Draco.9480]

After those 5.5 years people somehow still can't rotate. we can't premade in ranked, ratings are only in seasons and are only personal. people yolo and flame each other and type in chat instead playing/using voice. Can't make yer own team in ranked and it's just no competitive but terrible experience. People come to complete the chest of seasons just to get rewards, feed and quit the game mode.

I suggest to break conquest and remake it and add games.

 

Also let's say the ranked conquest in the game for reward track filling progress is 1(just a number to make comparison, not a real number), so I won't make long sentence which one is bigger in terms of rewards.

 

**Battleground**

Type: Ranked and Unranked.

Requirements: If pre-made then must be in a squad.

Number of players: 10v10.

Pre-made player limit: up to 10 in unranked and must be 10 in ranked.

Type of games: CTF(capture the flag), Capture Points (CP - 5 points), Payload (PL), Attack and Defend (AnD) - Killing Enemy Lord (legendary rank with 4 champions guarding him).

Rating will be in your rated BG on your account. No seasons. You gain rating only via ranked BG to your personal rated BG rating.

Rewards to reward track speed for winners: ranked 4 and gain rating | unranked 2.

Rewards to reward track speed for losers: ranked 1 and lose rating | unranked 0.5.

 

**Arena**

Type: Ranked and Unranked.

Requirements: For ranked must create a team of either 2v2 or 3v3 (can have both but you have to choose what to play at that moment), be in a party of that team. For unranked you can solo queue or just premade in a party, however you won't gain any rating from unranked.

Number of players: 2v2, 3v3.

Type of games: Team Deathmatch without respawning, which means last team or player stands alive wins for his team.

Pre-made player limit: Must be 2 for 2v2 in ranked and 3 in 3v3 ranked. unranked can solo or pre-made but ranked must be pre-made.

Rating will be according to your team. Let's say I've a 2v2 team with 1500 rating then it'll show 1500 rating on my 2v2 team. No seasons. Can reset rating by breaking the team.

Rewards to reward track speed for winners: ranked 1 and gain rating | unranked 0.5.

Rewards to reward track speed for losers: ranked 0.25 and lose rating | unranked 0.125.

Reason for less reward track is because those fights are way shorter than battlegrounds which you can just spam queues.

 

**GvG**

Type: Ranked

Requirements: Must be in a guild and represent it and be in a squad.

Number of players: 10v10.

Pre-made player limit: Must be 10.

Type of games: Same as Battlegrounds and also have the option for mini WvW siege type game.

Rating will be according to your guild.

Exclusive upgrades for guild and decorations from GvG.

Rewards to reward track speed for winners: ranked 5 and gain rating.

Rewards to reward track speed for losers: ranked 2 and lose rating.

 

**Other rewards:**

Get ascended glory shards only from ranked games of either arena, battlegrounds or GvG every week with a limit. Must play at least 10 games. Receive ascended glory shards quantity according to wins. Each win will grant 20 ascended glory shards. Weekly ascended glory shards 200.

Buying ascended gear, trinkets, weapons, infusions, special exclusive skins of sets, skins of weapons and skins backpieces will be according to the rating of either the team arena, personal battleground rating or guild rating.

The option to craft legendary armor from PvP exclusive must be rating of 1800 or above (Different skins from the raiding).

 

Mastery options in PvP for arena, BG, and GvG: To use mounts out of combat to get faster to the fights in the games like in WoW in arena and BG. Remove decay rating, no any game has it except gw2. it's terrible. I suggest to only use raptors, skimmer and jackal cuz they're legit mobility mounts compared to the springer which can bypass walls and stuff.

 

Leaderboards with ranked arena (both 2v2 and 3v3 separately), BG and GvG.

 

Now people will say, "oh no! not enough funds blabla excuses". Please, it's the only way to make competitive pvp and bring pvp players back and see hardcore PvP guilds. we need that. Not everyone play for rewards.

[Ziggityzog.7389]

Anything but the current circlequest maps. So bored of having big maps but we are limited to 3 little invisible circles on the ground.

[Rodzynald.5897]

At this point I'd try anything but something that would require a different approach and skillset. Perhaps some moving objective like a payload?

[Draco.9480]

> @"Rodzynald.5897" said:

> At this point I'd try anything but something that would require a different approach and skillset. Perhaps some moving objective like a payload?

 

well never seen payload in mmorpg but it could be cool.

[Crab Fear.1624]

> @"Draco.9480" said:

> > @"Rodzynald.5897" said:

> > At this point I'd try anything but something that would require a different approach and skillset. Perhaps some moving objective like a payload?

>

> well never seen payload in mmorpg but it could be cool.

 

well, not exactly like OW payload...but GW1 had JQ and you won by the escorts

 

of course it was in the "un-respected pvp" category (AB, JQ, FA)

[Rodzynald.5897]

Warcraft has a pvp mode that requires to move a cart, so payload in a MMO is feasible.

Still, it won't change much as long as Devs refuse to split PvP and PvE balance, I mean REAL PVP BALANCE not some second hand balance from PvE devs. Still, that requires people devoted to actually playing the game mode to experience it in numerous cases, to finally see that PvE class concepts do not work well in terms of quality gameplay and high skillcap performance. How would it look if we had it all gut down so that the spam is no longer? It wouldn't really change the pace of combat, because with current spam you either blow up in seconds or keep at it for as long as the class' mobility and defensive cooldowns allow you. We had the same pace before HoT, a well placed burst could melt you, or you could fight for a long period of time, but it actually required more skill to pull off, and not just spamming/relying on passives/taking advantage of skills abundant in utility, becasue someone knows little to nothing about a well thought out skill concepts. Unless this is how they want it, then I see no sense of any form of ranked/tournaments, or in other words, anything that resembles any form of semi-serious competitivity, because what we have now is a sack of big, stinking pile of you know what.

[Nath Forge Tempete.1645]

capture the flag =) or rework bastion so it doesnt need npc interaction .... but more siege based (WvW influence)

[Draco.9480]

> @"Rodzynald.5897" said:

> Warcraft has a pvp mode that requires to move a cart, so payload in a MMO is feasible.

> Still, it won't change much as long as Devs refuse to split PvP and PvE balance, I mean REAL PVP BALANCE not some second hand balance from PvE devs. Still, that requires people devoted to actually playing the game mode to experience it in numerous cases, to finally see that PvE class concepts do not work well in terms of quality gameplay and high skillcap performance. How would it look if we had it all gut down so that the spam is no longer? It wouldn't really change the pace of combat, because with current spam you either blow up in seconds or keep at it for as long as the class' mobility and defensive cooldowns allow you. We had the same pace before HoT, a well placed burst could melt you, or you could fight for a long period of time, but it actually required more skill to pull off, and not just spamming/relying on passives/taking advantage of skills abundant in utility, becasue someone knows little to nothing about a well thought out skill concepts. Unless this is how they want it, then I see no sense of any form of ranked/tournaments, or in other words, anything that resembles any form of semi-serious competitivity, because what we have now is a sack of big, stinking pile of you know what.

 

what i suggested is what will work and do justice. also i reminded me of the balance that they have to separate the pvp and pve more and make actual balance.

[Draco.9480]

pumping...........

[Huskyboy.1053]

I don't see a reason to get rid of conquest, but I would welcome a return to Fort Aspenwood with some changes to make it relevant to GW2's game engine and active combat style. Conquest is actually a great game mode but we're all sick of it. I think Anet should just cannibalize the old sPvP from GW1 to save them some time and make "new" game modes out of them. That way they don't have to devote as much time to coming up with new ideas and can just jump straight to development.

 

Just to put this out there, I would **DEFINITELY** pay $10/$20 for a sPvP expansion that introduces 2 or more game modes with an appropriate ranking system, rewards, team-making system, etc. GW2 combat quality totally eclipses other MMOs and some MOBAs, all they need is something new to pull people in.

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

Totally agree with you and I've thought deeply about this myself, but there is one enormous problem with the idea of overhauling gw2 spvp at this point > Everything has been balanced around the idea of 3 node conquest play. Changing things now, would cause detrimental balance issues in other modes and they wouldn't even be fun to play as such.

 

This effect is why I believe Stronghold failed. There just weren't enough builds that worked in synchronicity with Stronghold's dynamics. The same thing happened with Courtyard, although another part of Courtyard's failure was how the respawn system worked.

 

Conquest is good because the mode relies so heavily on a user's raw experience and knowledge of positioning/tactics, that this creates a much larger margin of difference between a good player and a bad player, than just something like a Deathmatch, or a race to carry flags "which will inevitably not be much different than running orb to a node, unfortunately." With how balance goes in this game, things like Deathmatch or race styled matches will result in even fewer builds that are actually good at these match types, then even the number in a given meta that are good in Conquest. I hate it, but it's true.

 

I'd love to see some open beta tests of new game modes, that'd be great. But we probably shouldn't hold our breaths on that one.

[Draco.9480]

> @"Trevor Boyer.6524" said:

> Totally agree with you and I've thought deeply about this myself, but there is one enormous problem with the idea of overhauling gw2 spvp at this point > Everything has been balanced around the idea of 3 node conquest play. Changing things now, would cause detrimental balance issues in other modes and they wouldn't even be fun to play as such.

>

> This effect is why I believe Stronghold failed. There just weren't enough builds that worked in synchronicity with Stronghold's dynamics. The same thing happened with Courtyard, although another part of Courtyard's failure was how the respawn system worked.

>

> Conquest is good because the mode relies so heavily on a user's raw experience and knowledge of positioning/tactics, that this creates a much larger margin of difference between a good player and a bad player, than just something like a Deathmatch, or a race to carry flags "which will inevitably not be much different than running orb to a node, unfortunately." With how balance goes in this game, things like Deathmatch or race styled matches will result in even fewer builds that are actually good at these match types, then even the number in a given meta that are good in Conquest. I hate it, but it's true.

>

> I'd love to see some open beta tests of new game modes, that'd be great. But we probably shouldn't hold our breaths on that one.

 

death matches are only suitable for 2v2 and 3v3 arenas but if get killed then he's dead till last team survives and wins it, short fights like in wow. to not rely too much on buffs from big compositions. however you have BGs 10v10 with 5 capture points / capture the flag / payload etc which requires those objectives to make other builds useful in larger scale. in small scale they'll still be useful cuz mostly people wither dps and healer or bunkers or dps dps etc. i mean you don't have to worry about new ideas when they're all there. just copy pasta 'em from what i said and program it. nothing new to do. most of it exists in WoW and Wildstar.

[phokus.8934]

Stronghold failed because it’s grade A garbage. I just want to see less focus on pve elements in pvp.

[Abazigal.3679]

> @"Draco.9480" said:

> After those 5.5 years people somehow still can't rotate. we can't premade in ranked, ratings are only in seasons and are only personal. people yolo and flame each other and tpye in chat instead playing/using voice. can't make yer own team in ranked. it's just no competitive but terrible experience, people come to complete the chest of seasons just to get rewards, feed and quit the game mode.

 

> Now people will say, "oh no! not enough funds blabla excuses". Please, it's the only way to make competitive pvp and bring pvp players back and see hardcore PvP guilds. we need that. Not everyone play for rewards.

 

These are good points, but let's be honest, this is a lot of work. When i'm looking at the forum, and i agree with these posts, simply deleting scourge and mirage would fix things and make matchs much different and entertaining..

Your ideas about deathmatchs are interesting, but you're situationnaly going to have unreadable matchs and my head hurts simply thinking of having to deal with 3 mirages 3 scourges and 2 firebrands in GvG

[Draco.9480]

> @"Abazigal.3679" said:

> > @"Draco.9480" said:

> > After those 5.5 years people somehow still can't rotate. we can't premade in ranked, ratings are only in seasons and are only personal. people yolo and flame each other and tpye in chat instead playing/using voice. can't make yer own team in ranked. it's just no competitive but terrible experience, people come to complete the chest of seasons just to get rewards, feed and quit the game mode.

>

> > Now people will say, "oh no! not enough funds blabla excuses". Please, it's the only way to make competitive pvp and bring pvp players back and see hardcore PvP guilds. we need that. Not everyone play for rewards.

>

> These are good points, but let's be honest, this is a lot of work. When i'm looking at the forum, and i agree with these posts, simply deleting scourge and mirage would fix things and make matchs much different and entertaining..

> Your ideas about deathmatchs are interesting, but you're situationnaly going to have unreadable matchs and my head hurts simply thinking of having to deal with 3 mirages 3 scourges and 2 firebrands in GvG

 

take spellbreaker to kill fb ez, there are always solutions. how do you think wow can do it while they have those strong healers?

[Huskyboy.1053]

> @"Abazigal.3679" said:

> > @"Draco.9480" said:

> > After those 5.5 years people somehow still can't rotate. we can't premade in ranked, ratings are only in seasons and are only personal. people yolo and flame each other and tpye in chat instead playing/using voice. can't make yer own team in ranked. it's just no competitive but terrible experience, people come to complete the chest of seasons just to get rewards, feed and quit the game mode.

>

> > Now people will say, "oh no! not enough funds blabla excuses". Please, it's the only way to make competitive pvp and bring pvp players back and see hardcore PvP guilds. we need that. Not everyone play for rewards.

>

> These are good points, but let's be honest, this is a lot of work. When i'm looking at the forum, and i agree with these posts, simply deleting scourge and mirage would fix things and make matchs much different and entertaining..

> Your ideas about deathmatchs are interesting, but you're situationnaly going to have unreadable matchs and my head hurts simply thinking of having to deal with 3 mirages 3 scourges and 2 firebrands in GvG

 

I mean I **did** say I would pay. Is that not enough money Anet???

[Draco.9480]

> @"Huskyboy.1053" said:

> > @"Abazigal.3679" said:

> > > @"Draco.9480" said:

> > > After those 5.5 years people somehow still can't rotate. we can't premade in ranked, ratings are only in seasons and are only personal. people yolo and flame each other and tpye in chat instead playing/using voice. can't make yer own team in ranked. it's just no competitive but terrible experience, people come to complete the chest of seasons just to get rewards, feed and quit the game mode.

> >

> > > Now people will say, "oh no! not enough funds blabla excuses". Please, it's the only way to make competitive pvp and bring pvp players back and see hardcore PvP guilds. we need that. Not everyone play for rewards.

> >

> > These are good points, but let's be honest, this is a lot of work. When i'm looking at the forum, and i agree with these posts, simply deleting scourge and mirage would fix things and make matchs much different and entertaining..

> > Your ideas about deathmatchs are interesting, but you're situationnaly going to have unreadable matchs and my head hurts simply thinking of having to deal with 3 mirages 3 scourges and 2 firebrands in GvG

>

> I mean I **did** say I would pay. Is that not enough money Anet???

 

2000 years later, still no content even when they'll load the TP with gem items. takes 'em ages to add something to the game or fix anything.

[Crinn.7864]

> @"Abazigal.3679" said:

> and i agree with these posts, simply deleting scourge and mirage would fix things and make matchs much different and entertaining..

 

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/42507/game-update-notes-june-5-2018#latest

[Auturgist.8256]

I can solve all the GW2 PvP problems with one solution: stop playing. You're far more likely to find something else that is actually satisfying than ANet is to fix PvP in this game in a way that is satisfying.

[Huskyboy.1053]

> @"Auturgist.8256" said:

> I can solve all the GW2 PvP problems with one solution: stop playing. You're far more likely to find something else that is actually satisfying than ANet is to fix PvP in this game in a way that is satisfying.

 

It wouldn't be a legit post without that one guy who "quit" yet still comes to the forums. /thread

[lLobo.7960]

> @"Draco.9480" said:

> **Arena**

> Type: Ranked and Unranked.

> Requirements: If premade then must be in a party. Must create a team of either 2v2 or 3v3. can have 2 types and join to game mode according to choice, for example: I want to 2v2 then I must create a 2v2 team and be with him in a party in order to queue.

> Number of players: 2v2, 3v3.

> Type of games: Dead can't respawn, small arena without any objectives and just kill enemy before they kill you.

> Pre-made player limit: Must be 2 for 2v2 in ranked and 3 in 3v3 ranked. unranked can solo or pre-made but ranked must be pre-made.

> Rating will be according to your team let's say you got 1500 rating on 2v2 so on your 2v2 team section you'll have 1500. can reset rating if break the team in the pvp tab.

> Rewards: In unranked reward track speed is half as ranked in the current game in unranked arena. In ranked, double the speed of the reward track from compared to unranked.

 

For this to work there need to be some special mechanics to avoid cheese... Otherwise people will just bunker/stealth/run the whole game to annoy the opponent.

Some options:

- The arena as a whole is a capture pt, if you stealth or invul too much, enemy team gets the capture and you loose.

- Arena has a capture pt in the center that when triggered, an AoE reveals the whole area. Other CP around could trigger other debuffs (healing debuff, speed debuff, endurance debuff, etc). This way people can try to capture such cps to force a fight from people running, stealthing or other cheese...

- Arena pulses debuffs on timer.

- No reset (OOC)

 

Also, instead of dead can't respawn, I think its better round respawn (the whole game resets when a team is defeated), with 3 or 5 rounds.

 

**King of the Hill**

Other interesting mode would be king of the hill, where you queue up for a map and can spectate that map while in queue and the winning team/person keeps fighting until defeated/forfeit. Rewards increase the longer you keep the arena (like reward tracks in season pvp or wvw, but reset when you loose/forfeit)

 

 

[Vague Memory.2817]

The maps and camera angles don't work for this bizarre meta of aoe condi and power skills. Choose a class that doesn't have to play tactically because they have silly amounts of AoE everything, not just damage, but CC, healing etc. etc. You can fight blind on tiny caps and know that people will die while you watch TV. Well done ANet, behold your handiwork of easy mode specs for the unwashed proletariat.

[Draco.9480]

> @"lLobo.7960" said:

> > @"Draco.9480" said:

> > **Arena**

> > Type: Ranked and Unranked.

> > Requirements: If premade then must be in a party. Must create a team of either 2v2 or 3v3. can have 2 types and join to game mode according to choice, for example: I want to 2v2 then I must create a 2v2 team and be with him in a party in order to queue.

> > Number of players: 2v2, 3v3.

> > Type of games: Dead can't respawn, small arena without any objectives and just kill enemy before they kill you.

> > Pre-made player limit: Must be 2 for 2v2 in ranked and 3 in 3v3 ranked. unranked can solo or pre-made but ranked must be pre-made.

> > Rating will be according to your team let's say you got 1500 rating on 2v2 so on your 2v2 team section you'll have 1500. can reset rating if break the team in the pvp tab.

> > Rewards: In unranked reward track speed is half as ranked in the current game in unranked arena. In ranked, double the speed of the reward track from compared to unranked.

>

> For this to work there need to be some special mechanics to avoid cheese... Otherwise people will just bunker/stealth/run the whole game to annoy the opponent.

> Some options:

> - The arena as a whole is a capture pt, if you stealth or invul too much, enemy team gets the capture and you loose.

> - Arena has a capture pt in the center that when triggered, an AoE reveals the whole area. Other CP around could trigger other debuffs (healing debuff, speed debuff, endurance debuff, etc). This way people can try to capture such cps to force a fight from people running, stealthing or other cheese...

> - Arena pulses debuffs on timer.

> - No reset (OOC)

>

> Also, instead of dead can't respawn, I think its better round respawn (the whole game resets when a team is defeated), with 3 or 5 rounds.

>

> **King of the Hill**

> Other interesting mode would be king of the hill, where you queue up for a map and can spectate that map while in queue and the winning team/person keeps fighting until defeated/forfeit. Rewards increase the longer you keep the arena (like reward tracks in season pvp or wvw, but reset when you loose/forfeit)

>

>

 

i got cheesed by rouges in wow but still managed to kill 'em.

[Draco.9480]

> @"Auturgist.8256" said:

> I can solve all the GW2 PvP problems with one solution: stop playing. You're far more likely to find something else that is actually satisfying than ANet is to fix PvP in this game in a way that is satisfying.

 

you wouldn't solve anyone's problem since you're one of those people who will quit when something doesn't goes to his favor. I want to improve the gameplay, balance, fairness and glory of pvp and all you want is people to quit. next you'll tell raiders to not wish for more raids cuz anet are so slow that it's pointless to rely on 'em. customers demand affect the companies to produce us content cuz people pay money for game/expansions and some people support 'em real money for gemstore items and some even do it monthly to keep the game alive.

and about something satisfying, well there's nothing now tbh. i'm waiting for ms2, star citizen and lost ark but there's nothing to do atm.

[Devilman.1532]

OP these are good ideas man but sadly I think the Titanic hit the iceberg at full speed along time ago and is sinking fast.