Bigbosos.2063 Posted June 12, 2018 Share Posted June 12, 2018 > @"Wichidi.9281" said: > > @"Bigbosos.2063" said: > > > @"skeletonman.5348" said: > > > > @"Bigbosos.2063" said: > > > > > @"skeletonman.5348" said: > > > > > > @"phokus.8934" said: > > > > > > > @"Bigbosos.2063" said: > > > > > > > > @"Arheundel.6451" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - too much reflect uptime that effectively shutdown ranged spikes > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Wat. You mean a maximum of 4 seconds Distortion every 42.5 seconds that makes it a big fat 9.4% reflection uptime at best and a 2.3% reflection uptime at worse? > > > > > > > Last time I checked, rapid fire was on a 10 seconds CD, plenty of time to have it not be reflected. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Get a clue please. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Exactly this. The nonsense posted by @"Arheundel.6451" is what I'm referring to. > > > > > > > > > > rapid fire can be interrupted > > > > > dodged > > > > > blocked > > > > > distorted > > > > > LOS'ed > > > > > you can portal, blink away or just stealth around before he casts it > > > > > > > > > > while you are dodging rapid fire the mesmer can burst the ranger. > > > > > > > > > > distortion is only one of many ascpets that make mesmers so strong. im more worried about other stuff like elusive mind tho. > > > > > > > > > > but honestly, being untouchable 9.4% of the entire time is dumb. > > > > > because on top you can add like what? 10% of the time your doding > > > > > 10% of the time ur in stealth > > > > > 30% of the time u los > > > > > when playing chrono ull also have tons of blocks covering like 10% of the time > > > > > > > > > > on top of that u spam clones and blink all over the places and if u ever happen to lose a fight, portal away :) > > > > > > > > > > pls, stop ur nonsense with the rapid fire CD. ur insane. > > > > > > > > You said "too much reflect uptime". I just proved you wrong. Everything else you said makes no sense since most classes can do what you said besides portal. If you're ONLY relying on rapid fire as a ranger to deal damage, learn to play. Oh btw, rapid fire follows targets in stealth so, you know, that one doesn't count. > > > > > > learn to read. i said you can stealth around before he casts it. i said BEFORE. > > > > > > either way, discussing with a mirage that loses to a pew pew ranger is worthless because bronze player do not represent the majority of the pvp community. > > > > Who said I lose to ranger pewpew? I'm top 200 last season btw. You're always flipping my words to make it seem like you're in the right. You're not. > > Cuz top 200 in s11 means something LUL The guy talking bollocks accused me of being bronze and therefore being clueless about this game. Regardless of the ad hominem fallacy he used, I just proved him wrong once again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BikeIsGone.8675 Posted June 12, 2018 Share Posted June 12, 2018 People are giving EM way too much credit. Last season I tried out a few off-meta builds for my mirage (without EM) and still manged to comfortably get high plat 2 / low plat 3. And from what I can tell, It's really not that much about EM and more about some of the base functions that Mirage cloak in general bring. Even when you get stunned as a mirage, you have a kittenton of mechanics that let you deal with the followup burst. -I can STILL evade while stunned....I just dont get to break it....which in itself is utterly ridiculous. -All my shatters blind and are instant casts, so I can use them as well when disabled. -Phase retreat, Jaunt and Chaos armor are usable as well while stunned. -I run 2 stunbreaks anyway (Sigil of Midnight and Blink) On top of that, I can cover my heal with an evade frame that covers 100% of its casttime and dodging doesnt cancel rez or stomp attempts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rodzynald.5897 Posted June 12, 2018 Share Posted June 12, 2018 > @"Eddbopkins.2630" said: > For me the biggest gripe with mesmer is confusion and all the de-targeting skills they have wheather its traits or just going invis they have to much detargeting utilities at there disposal and having clones that are targetable is a big disadvantage for any class specially my main fa weaver that requires a target for any thing worthwile doing. For a class to be so bursty then having the inability to target them fast enough and do your burst befor they get detargeted again is a very very strong mechanic. > Now confusion needs to have an icd so that it doesnt tick 3 times in 1/2 a second with 15+ stacks its doing 3.5k ticks when i use a skill. I only have 12k hp. So lets say i 10 stacks on me i switch to air, b.c of static discharge it will tick, when i use cleansing fire it will tick again because cleansing fire does damage befor it clears, but then the mes going invis again and puts 15+ stacks of confusion on me i switch to air again to get off a burst but wait i cant attack actually cuz im dead from confusion ticking me for absurd amounts when im just trying to clear or keep my distance with superspeed. > > Mesmer needs to do 1/2 the damage they can do right now. They have access to every kind of utility in the game from stealth to teleports from evade skills to portals from stunbrakes to vigor and dodge from HI burst power damage to HI burst condi damage they can do it ALL! So in short, mesmer should be a disruptive class, with lots of shenanigan mechanic utilities, but very little damage, not a be-all and end-all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eddbopkins.2630 Posted June 12, 2018 Share Posted June 12, 2018 > @"Rodzynald.5897" said: > > @"Eddbopkins.2630" said: > > For me the biggest gripe with mesmer is confusion and all the de-targeting skills they have wheather its traits or just going invis they have to much detargeting utilities at there disposal and having clones that are targetable is a big disadvantage for any class specially my main fa weaver that requires a target for any thing worthwile doing. For a class to be so bursty then having the inability to target them fast enough and do your burst befor they get detargeted again is a very very strong mechanic. > > Now confusion needs to have an icd so that it doesnt tick 3 times in 1/2 a second with 15+ stacks its doing 3.5k ticks when i use a skill. I only have 12k hp. So lets say i 10 stacks on me i switch to air, b.c of static discharge it will tick, when i use cleansing fire it will tick again because cleansing fire does damage befor it clears, but then the mes going invis again and puts 15+ stacks of confusion on me i switch to air again to get off a burst but wait i cant attack actually cuz im dead from confusion ticking me for absurd amounts when im just trying to clear or keep my distance with superspeed. > > > > Mesmer needs to do 1/2 the damage they can do right now. They have access to every kind of utility in the game from stealth to teleports from evade skills to portals from stunbrakes to vigor and dodge from HI burst power damage to HI burst condi damage they can do it ALL! > > So in short, mesmer should be a disruptive class, with lots of shenanigan mechanic utilities, but very little damage, not a be-all and end-all. Yess good summery of my words....tankyouz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mortrialus.3062 Posted June 12, 2018 Share Posted June 12, 2018 > @"Coolguy.8702" said: > I can beat them on every class thats not rev or ele just fine. Scourge has way more condi pressure and is aoe and **nobody ever qqs about them** Is this your first time looking at the PvP forums? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phs.6089 Posted June 12, 2018 Share Posted June 12, 2018 > @"Kraitan.8476" said: > Beside the balance side of it, mesmers are just incredibly annoying to fight. The amount of evades/invulns/ports/stealths/blinds/blocks they got on each and every ability makes it just such bad & boring combat compared to fighting any other class. Because it is also poorly balanced, it doesnt require much skill to be effective on it therefore many people starting playing it which magnified the problem and now everyone is aware & complaining. Except the devs who usually need 6-9 months to catch up. Why don't you make a mirage and play it for a bit? BTW you know what else is annoying to play against (besides anything else) it's a core ranger on trapper runes. I mean a ranger that know what to do. Hear me, this comes from DH main player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shao.7236 Posted June 12, 2018 Share Posted June 12, 2018 The fact that you can already negate damage AFTER being CC'd it already strong enough. It's literally a Distortion on EVADE with condition removal. Doesn't matter how long it lasts, 1 second is already enough to nullify a huge damage spike. Make it remove 2 random conditions instead of stun break, or maybe specifically debilitating. Personally Unhindered Combatant was already strong yet now balanced, so having something similar while it can avoid you damage as you are disabled already makes up for it. I know ANET is trying to innovate, but this is way too much. With how easy it is to disengage already as a Mesmer, being able to save a utility slot because your evades are stunbreak is really unfair. Even Berserker Outrage doesn't top Elusive Mind because it takes up 1 slot, Exhaustion doesn't make up for it, even if the Endurance CD becomes 15 seconds instead of 10, you still get to avoid what most of every power builds rely on, which is disabling to land damage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother.1504 Posted June 12, 2018 Share Posted June 12, 2018 Don’t hate mirage. The concept is interesting. They are just over tuned for player vs player. Nothing fun about being one shot from stealth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rodzynald.5897 Posted June 12, 2018 Share Posted June 12, 2018 > @"Brother.1504" said: > Don’t hate mirage. The concept is interesting. They are just over tuned for player vs player. Nothing fun about being one shot from stealth. For PvE that is. I firmly believe that mirage's concept at its core would end up in a trash bin in any to other MMORPG that has a bit of respect to the PvP game mode, or at least faced serious drawbacks and sacrifices to some aspects of their performance to keep it high skill cap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daishi.6027 Posted June 13, 2018 Share Posted June 13, 2018 Because people refuse to count cooldowns and read. Because people refuse to play condi specs at the cost of losing to other popular non Mesmer builds. Because thieves don’t want to fight it even though they are fully capable of winning. Because outside of holo, war and guard classes tend to lack strong enough AoE to starve illusions and have to default to the three above. And Because bads don’t know about auto targeting, and do not fight using terrain. Condi mirage is strong and needs to be toned down, but that is specifically the strength of condi and how it applies damage. It should be changed to front load conditions on only two shatters and not be suplimented by clones. Btw Condi thief is just as bad but no one cares because they don’t have visual noise. Since release bads have called it a brain dead class when landing core shatters was the most fair spike (not even burst) in the game. This is only out of ignorance for how it fights. All they see is illusions and die, then cry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigpapasmurf.5623 Posted June 13, 2018 Share Posted June 13, 2018 > @"Toron.4856" said: > Being able to burst people whole doding > Being unstunnable > Portal > Stealth > Invuln > Blink jaunt phase retreat (lololol) > Stealth > And doing more burst dmg with condi than most power classes (isnt condi damage over time? Lul) > Oh and clone spam > > To name the main aspects > > Basically, have a look at the abilities of all the other 8 classes. Mix all the good features into one and create a unkillable class. So what is you only have 1/4/ and 8? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
otto.5684 Posted June 14, 2018 Share Posted June 14, 2018 > @"Daishi.6027" said: > Because people refuse to count cooldowns and read. > > Because people refuse to play condi specs at the cost of losing to other popular non Mesmer builds. > > Because thieves don’t want to fight it even though they are fully capable of winning. > > Because outside of holo, war and guard classes tend to lack strong enough AoE to starve illusions and have to default to the three above. > > And Because bads don’t know about auto targeting, and do not fight using terrain. > > Condi mirage is strong and needs to be toned down, but that is specifically the strength of condi and how it applies damage. It should be changed to front load conditions on only two shatters and not be suplimented by clones. > Btw Condi thief is just as bad but no one cares because they don’t have visual noise. > > Since release bads have called it a brain dead class when landing core shatters was the most fair spike (not even burst) in the game. This is only out of ignorance for how it fights. All they see is illusions and die, then cry. > I will agree with you on one thing, mirage solo potential is a bit over rateded. The problems with mirage: Mirage counters tend to not play side nodes, where Mirage usually is. It is difficult for thief, rev or ranger to fight mirage. No other class can dish so many condis, with good stacks, in such a short time. Especially that the condi application is not easy to avoid. This is not an issue if you are playing guardian dps, holo and SB, but it is a complete shutdown for everyone else. As long as you manage your CDs correctly, it is extremely difficult for you to be downed. I mainly play core guardian, which is possibly the strongest counter for mirage. I can push them off point, but killing them only happens if they are not smart enough to know when they need to bounce. It has extremely high mobility between nodes. To summarize, mirage is an extremely mobile build, with numerous escapes, extremely punishing to any build without strong condi removal and it counters every build that plays in its territory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaRaPhReNiA.8763 Posted June 14, 2018 Share Posted June 14, 2018 > @"phs.6089" said: > > @"Kraitan.8476" said: > > Beside the balance side of it, mesmers are just incredibly annoying to fight. The amount of evades/invulns/ports/stealths/blinds/blocks they got on each and every ability makes it just such bad & boring combat compared to fighting any other class. Because it is also poorly balanced, it doesnt require much skill to be effective on it therefore many people starting playing it which magnified the problem and now everyone is aware & complaining. Except the devs who usually need 6-9 months to catch up. > > Why don't you make a mirage and play it for a bit? BTW you know what else is annoying to play against (besides anything else) it's a core ranger on trapper runes. I mean a ranger that know what to do. Hear me, this comes from DH main player. HAHAHAHAHA CORE RANGER WITH TRAPPER RUNES! It's so damn broken, I fully agree Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kraitan.8476 Posted June 14, 2018 Share Posted June 14, 2018 > @"PaRaPhReNiA.8763" said: > > @"phs.6089" said: > > > @"Kraitan.8476" said: > > > Beside the balance side of it, mesmers are just incredibly annoying to fight. The amount of evades/invulns/ports/stealths/blinds/blocks they got on each and every ability makes it just such bad & boring combat compared to fighting any other class. Because it is also poorly balanced, it doesnt require much skill to be effective on it therefore many people starting playing it which magnified the problem and now everyone is aware & complaining. Except the devs who usually need 6-9 months to catch up. > > > > Why don't you make a mirage and play it for a bit? BTW you know what else is annoying to play against (besides anything else) it's a core ranger on trapper runes. I mean a ranger that know what to do. Hear me, this comes from DH main player. > > HAHAHAHAHA CORE RANGER WITH TRAPPER RUNES! It's so kitten broken, I fully agree I wasnt even gonna reply to that comment anymore but I'm glad you did xD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marxx.5021 Posted June 15, 2018 Share Posted June 15, 2018 > @"Chaith.8256" said: > > @"Marxx.5021" said: > > There is no real class balancing in PvP so there is rage whenever PvE changes harm PvP. Unfortunatelly PvP has such a low priority that balancing issues are addressed with minimum effort and often not before new PvE changes get introduced. > > You know what's funny? WvW, PvP, and PvE players ALL think this same thing. The reality is that the balance devs are just applying life support to all 3 at the same time. Exactly. That life support may be enough for PvE together with new content released. For PvP it means it is getting worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poelala.2830 Posted June 16, 2018 Share Posted June 16, 2018 > @"Kako.1930" said: > It seems like a mirage managed to get beaten by a ranger in a duel somehow. Wow. That's one matchup where the mirage should win 100% of the time. ? > > (No offense to rangers. The odds just aren't in your favor. Kudos if you do wreck a mirage in a duel though!) Rangers win the mu vs condi mirage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaRaPhReNiA.8763 Posted June 16, 2018 Share Posted June 16, 2018 > @"Poelala.2830" said: > > @"Kako.1930" said: > > It seems like a mirage managed to get beaten by a ranger in a duel somehow. Wow. That's one matchup where the mirage should win 100% of the time. ? > > > > (No offense to rangers. The odds just aren't in your favor. Kudos if you do wreck a mirage in a duel though!) > > Rangers win the mu vs condi mirage. Which build ? Druid maybe and one certain sb build 99,999% of this community doesn't know about. Most Rangers run a suboptimal sb build or core ranger and BOTH loose to condi mirage. Stop spreading fake news Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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