Best Change Ever!!!

[Jerry CCH.9816]

yup. keep this forever

[Lord Trejgon.2809]

> @"Malediktus.9250" said:

> Large scale: Pretty much unchanged except as a support player I get even less loot now because I can no longer tag downstates.

 

that's weird, my firebrand got on last recent night more loot than usuall - and considering I was like 2h late because suddenly 50+ queues >.>

 

 

[Char.4209]

> @"Feanor.2358" said:

> Not gonna lie - fights do feel more rewarding.

Have you played Guard, yet? Even if you win by steamrolling the enemy you cannot tag even half of the enemys you could tag before

 

> @"Gwaihir.1745" said:

> One good guy can take down a decent few bad players since they cant just force ress anymore.

Its more like one guy on a ganking class on a duellist build can take down a few players on a team build on the way to their commander. Normally you could just ignore him and rez the guy who got spiked. Now you cannot do anything as their mobility and utility excels yours

 

 

[Feanor.2358]

> @"Char.4209" said:

> > @"Feanor.2358" said:

> > Not gonna lie - fights do feel more rewarding.

> Have you played Guard, yet? Even if you win by steamrolling the enemy you cannot tag even half of the enemys you could tag before

 

I wasn't talking about loot. I was talking about the satisfaction. But no, I don't know how it is on a guard, I only played my ele.

[Deniara Devious.3948]

**Roaming has been horrible after the change.** Just like expected the new system rewards oneshot cancer type of builds. You know the ones with high burst, yet having escape skills, stealth and/or teleports to reset the fight if the 1st spike didn't bring results. Several fast moving ranged spikers focus fire one target and blammo, that is dead. If you see your team mate being focus fired, there is nothing to save him. He will just die. And if the 1st attempt fails, they will just stealth and try very soon again. Big open map, massive ranged damaged and abundant stealth in same build = bad game design. This is kind of fights are "fun" just for one side.

 

It should not be made a permanent feature as long as the damage is so excessive and high.

 

In zerging the effects have been smaller, but I am not much of a zerger on reset night, so I should not comment too much on this.

[Absconditus.6804]

I honestly hate it. Going to avoid WvW completely while this is active. If it became permanent, I'd abandon the mode permanently too.

 

It renders Finishers paid for with real money unusable in the mode. Several skills and traits are partially to fully crippled in their usage⁽[ʷᶦᵏᶦ](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Revival "https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Revival")⁾. It takes away a tactical element of bombing enemies trying to bomb your downed allies and/or bombing enemies trying to revive their downed allies. Just to name a couple of the reasons as to why I hate the event.

[Sleepwalker.1398]

> @"Absconditus.6804" said:

> I honestly hate it. Going to avoid WvW completely while this is active. If it became permanent, I'd abandon the mode permanently too.

 

Just logged in now in the quiet hours and all i see is just rangers everywhere partnering with sword thief taking ppl out.

[Decado.9304]

> @"aspirine.5839" said:

> You do realise that is why they are made in the first place right? They are made so small high burst players can chip of the zerg a bit. Only now it's more useful because they do not get instarezzed by the zerg. I only see the good thing in this.

>

 

^This, I played my ranger and went full(ish) deeps with minimal health and lost track of the number of terrible players, especially necros, who seem to think you could run towards a group just spamming aoe's, tagging shit, and surviving/rallying like they normally do with the condi blob coming behind them.

 

Might make people think about playstyle and skill a bit instead of this cancerous meta we have now. Plus of course the ridiculously fast wvw leveling to be had

[Arheundel.6451]

> @"Deniara Devious.3948" said:

> **Roaming has been horrible after the change.** Just like expected the new system rewards oneshot cancer type of builds. You know the ones with high burst, yet having escape skills, stealth and/or teleports to reset the fight if the 1st spike didn't bring results. Several fast moving ranged spikers focus fire one target and blammo, that is dead. If you see your team mate being focus fired, there is nothing to save him. He will just die. And if the 1st attempt fails, they will just stealth and try very soon again. Big open map, massive ranged damaged and abundant stealth in same build = bad game design. This is kind of fights are "fun" just for one side.

>

> It should not be made a permanent feature as long as the damage is so excessive and high.

>

> In zerging the effects have been smaller, but I am not much of a zerger on reset night, so I should not comment too much on this.

 

Roaming has a purpose now! Now people can't meme laugh at those rangers anymore, the majority of players had enough of firebrand/scourges filling up 90% of the whole gamemode, this change may last only one week but the devs can see/hear us far too well, from reddit to the forum the result is the same : **Love the new change**.

 

For a week the factor : skill - will count for something **again** and that will come as a shock to many I am sure but it's all good really, if anything this week will bring to light even more issues with firebrand/scourges and that will only add up to the list of nerfs these two must receive in order for the whole playerbase to again enjoy wvw

[Lord of the Fire.6870]

> @"Solaris.2489" said:

> We got steamrolled quite often but also had some glorious moments with surprise portal spikes and blasting people away that try to block siege and escape inside a tower. Also no more having to rez team mates that think they are a one man army and dont listen to the commander in ts.

 

It more the opposite here I think people are really afraid now to rush into a zerg fight especially all glasscanon builds won' t follow a steamroll into a enemy zerg which isn't clearly winnable.

I saw it yesterday from 50 people of a zerg 20 standing and don't follow the commander into the zerg what they could do was only clearing up behind them.

 

I actually think this change is in the opposite direction a lot of people wanted it in terms of fights when you rush into it the zerg fights they are now even faster over then before and people complained already a lot that the power creep speeding up does fight.

 

Its when you are winning clearly preferable and for roamers but in the other cases not. Its really turns everything upside down.

[Absconditus.6804]

> @"aspirine.5839" said:

> You do realise that is why they are made in the first place right? They are made so small high burst players can chip of the zerg a bit. Only now it's more useful because they do not get instarezzed by the zerg. I only see the good thing in this.

 

I semi-rely on the downed state in order to load up multiple enemies with a burst of physical damage, damage- and cover conditions as they try to revive or bomb downed players, more often than not leading to more downed enemy players. For me, this event makes it much harder to do proper sideline bursting as perhaps the only Renegade playing World vs. World (— I'm exaggerating, of course). In short; the event hurts my enjoyment of how I like to play strategically from the sideline, and it's why I'll avoid WvW while it's active.

 

If it became permanent, my way of enjoying the mode again would be pretty much destroyed. After having participated in WvW since 2012; I've had my fill of roaming on hard hitting classes like Thief and Mesmer. I'm tired of running in the middle of the zergs with tanky, low damage builds, supposedly only pressing 111 on repeat. The way I play Renegade has been a welcome change and has revitalized my enjoyment of the mode, and this no downed state really ends up hampering my ability to effectively do what I've been finding fun.

 

For what it's worth; I think having no downed state is dumbing down the mode, putting the focus purely on attacking the opposing side, never once giving mind to attempting a quick revive on a downed ally. Downed state has always been a source of distraction. It can and has been used as a strategic element. There's also several skills and traits that are based around downed allies (and enemies), which currently are rendered useless. It's a shame they had to ruin the mode for me for an entire week instead of just this weekend. Guess I'll find some other game to play for the week. All the finishers I purchased is also currently completely unusable within the mode, so that's nice. Certainly makes me want to buy the two new ones I'm missing..

[cobbah.3102]

Nah not so enjoyable when you dont adjust the toxicity worth a try but a week off wont hurt

[Jugglemonkey.8741]

> @"Dawdler.8521" said:

> Let me guess - your reset sized zerg has been steamrolling?

>

> Yeah try again a couple of days when objectives are T3 and most likely filled with so many arrowcarts that half the zerg dies before it even gets to a door and people dont even want to start commanding.

>

>

 

If you're ressing people through arrow cart and cannon fire, you were gonna wipe anyways.

[aspirine.5839]

> @"Char.4209" said:

> > @"aspirine.5839" said:

> > You seem like the kind of person I mean when I talk about mindless zerglings. The last part is exactly what's wrong with the normal way of zerg running. Dont care that someone dies, just auto rez and back to pressing 1.

>

> Why is it mindless to play a team orientated build in a mmo? It iss not about pressing just 1... If you are on a team build like a support guardian you have no chance against a guy on a rouming build. And if you have to take care of escorting more squishi buddys that may get onehitted the task becomes impossible now.

>

Because now the small roaming party can turn it around for a small bit. You think before the small group had a chance against the big group? So now that the tide has turned it's not fun anymore? All the time fighting larger blobs, and now we get to punish the ones that rely on others to wear their high damage gear.

It's just a matter of rethinking a bit. No use in running with the group if you do not have a little sustain. I think this is what WvW should have been from the start.

 

 

[Char.4209]

While I respect your opinion I disagree on all points. WvW is a lage scale team fight-mode.

[BlueMelody.6398]

There is an extreme divide of opinion here. Gankers love it, people who rely on range damage are being rewarded, siege humpers are getting free kills. Anyone who runs support in a large zerg, all-melee players, and all those people who keep getting one-shot from stealth while coming out of spawn are hating it, and for good reason.

 

Downed state is the thing that differentiates GW2 from other mmo's. It's one of the unique characteristics of this game that make it possible for those of us not blessed with high-level reflexes (or who have physical/neurological impairments that will prevent them from ever being able to do that no matter how much they play) to actually enjoy competitive wvw in a way that isn't possible with any other game. It's our one refuge from toxic elitists who'd like to remove us from the game completely.

 

This change ruins the game for many large-scale fighters, which is what wvw is supposed to be about. Prefer small-scale fights? Go do PvP. Don't turn wvw into a mode where it's all about fast-twitch reflexes needing to survive the way pvp is. This is all we've got.

 

One-shot ganking people from stealth is NOT skillful play, no matter how many thieves and mesmers want to pretend it is. It is NOT good for the game to have those groups spawn camping and instagibbing people. There is NO counter to it, if you happen to be their target, you run out of spawn, you die. That is not fun, it is annoying and discouraging.

 

Large scale zerg play was horrible last night. 100% pirate ship, everyone afraid to commit to any kind of push. While I was on melee only (before I started using a L78 rifle I found in my inventory), I actually started losing participation because I went more than 10 minutes without getting a tag. 80% of pushes were fake pushes, and even the few that were real generally lasted just a few seconds and then it's retreat, retreat, retreat. Groups that were even numbers or even a bit bigger than us quickly retreated to their walls and sieges rather than risk an open-field fight. The only time I seriously got tags (prior to donning the rifle) were when we managed to swoop in on the backline of a preoccupied group. Oh, also the one time I got on an arrow cart got me about half the bags I ended up with for the night.

 

This is not a fun style of play for a frontline melee zerg player.

 

You want your small-scale, instakill, fast-twitch reflex or die kind of pvp, go play any of the many other mmo's out there designed for exactly that kind of play. Give me back the one game I can still have fun in.

[aspirine.5839]

> @"BlueMelody.6398" said:

> There is an extreme divide of opinion here. Gankers love it, people who rely on range damage are being rewarded, siege humpers are getting free kills. Anyone who runs support in a large zerg, all-melee players, and all those people who keep getting one-shot from stealth while coming out of spawn are hating it, and for good reason.

>

> Downed state is the thing that differentiates GW2 from other mmo's. It's one of the unique characteristics of this game that make it possible for those of us not blessed with high-level reflexes (or who have physical/neurological impairments that will prevent them from ever being able to do that no matter how much they play) to actually enjoy competitive wvw in a way that isn't possible with any other game. It's our one refuge from toxic elitists who'd like to remove us from the game completely.

>

> This change ruins the game for many large-scale fighters, which is what wvw is supposed to be about. Prefer small-scale fights? Go do PvP. Don't turn wvw into a mode where it's all about fast-twitch reflexes needing to survive the way pvp is. This is all we've got.

>

> One-shot ganking people from stealth is NOT skillful play, no matter how many thieves and mesmers want to pretend it is. It is NOT good for the game to have those groups spawn camping and instagibbing people. There is NO counter to it, if you happen to be their target, you run out of spawn, you die. That is not fun, it is annoying and discouraging.

>

> Large scale zerg play was horrible last night. 100% pirate ship, everyone afraid to commit to any kind of push. While I was on melee only (before I started using a L78 rifle I found in my inventory), I actually started losing participation because I went more than 10 minutes without getting a tag. 80% of pushes were fake pushes, and even the few that were real generally lasted just a few seconds and then it's retreat, retreat, retreat. Groups that were even numbers or even a bit bigger than us quickly retreated to their walls and sieges rather than risk an open-field fight. The only time I seriously got tags (prior to donning the rifle) were when we managed to swoop in on the backline of a preoccupied group. Oh, also the one time I got on an arrow cart got me about half the bags I ended up with for the night.

>

> This is not a fun style of play for a frontline melee zerg player.

>

> You want your small-scale, instakill, fast-twitch reflex or die kind of pvp, go play any of the many other mmo's out there designed for exactly that kind of play. Give me back the one game I can still have fun in.

 

One shot ganking is right up there with 1 pressing zerg fighting, although I think that does not even require skill. The one shots at least makes you a bit vulnerable for attacks.

You seem to be thinking that wvw is just one blob going from tower to keep and back? Well guess what some of us do not like that and love to pick at the zerg one at a time. And for once the no dowstate is making this worth while.

And I loved the big fights last night, for once defending felt fun and worthwhile and not just waiting for the main zerg to arrive and press 1 so they can get their precious ticks.

Perhaps tonight you will rethink your build a bit and come to the conclusion that changing it up a bit when an event like this is on sometimes requires other skills, gear and passives.

[urdriel.8496]

> @"BlueMelody.6398" said:

> Groups that were even numbers or even a bit bigger than us quickly retreated to their walls and sieges rather than risk an open-field fight.

 

Oh, use of a defensive building to kill people, sound like some kind of STRATEGY.......

 

[Meviken.2054]

> @"aspirine.5839" said:

> How are you dying from siege if you are in a zerg. Really how many times do you die from AC fire? That hardly does any damage at all.

 

Having killed a few with siege when they were in zerg, it's really not that hard. Miss your dodge, and five ganged catapults smash you in the ground. An arrow cart doesn't do that much damage, but twenty of them at a time would. And trebs can be used on zergs to great effect. Yep. Killed a few that way, too, and got the bags.

[Arheundel.6451]

> @"BlueMelody.6398" said:

> There is an extreme divide of opinion here. Gankers love it, people who rely on range damage are being rewarded, siege humpers are getting free kills. Anyone who runs support in a large zerg, all-melee players, and all those people who keep getting one-shot from stealth while coming out of spawn are hating it, and for good reason.

>

> Downed state is the thing that differentiates GW2 from other mmo's. It's one of the unique characteristics of this game that make it possible for those of us not blessed with high-level reflexes (or who have physical/neurological impairments that will prevent them from ever being able to do that no matter how much they play) to actually enjoy competitive wvw in a way that isn't possible with any other game. It's our one refuge from toxic elitists who'd like to remove us from the game completely.

>

> This change ruins the game for many large-scale fighters, which is what wvw is supposed to be about. Prefer small-scale fights? Go do PvP. Don't turn wvw into a mode where it's all about fast-twitch reflexes needing to survive the way pvp is. This is all we've got.

>

> One-shot ganking people from stealth is NOT skillful play, no matter how many thieves and mesmers want to pretend it is. It is NOT good for the game to have those groups spawn camping and instagibbing people. There is NO counter to it, if you happen to be their target, you run out of spawn, you die. That is not fun, it is annoying and discouraging.

>

> Large scale zerg play was horrible last night. 100% pirate ship, everyone afraid to commit to any kind of push. While I was on melee only (before I started using a L78 rifle I found in my inventory), I actually started losing participation because I went more than 10 minutes without getting a tag. 80% of pushes were fake pushes, and even the few that were real generally lasted just a few seconds and then it's retreat, retreat, retreat. Groups that were even numbers or even a bit bigger than us quickly retreated to their walls and sieges rather than risk an open-field fight. The only time I seriously got tags (prior to donning the rifle) were when we managed to swoop in on the backline of a preoccupied group. Oh, also the one time I got on an arrow cart got me about half the bags I ended up with for the night.

>

> This is not a fun style of play for a frontline melee zerg player.

>

> You want your small-scale, instakill, fast-twitch reflex or die kind of pvp, go play any of the many other mmo's out there designed for exactly that kind of play. Give me back the one game I can still have fun in.

 

So basically the whole game should be turned into a "who has the more scourges wins" type of game...where mindless drones rush in rambo style with their trailblazer/celestial condi tank unafraid of anything because they get auto-ressed or because they tagged some enemies before going down...do not complain about pirate because it was created by those who dislike this change

[Israel.7056]

> @"BlueMelody.6398" said:

> There is an extreme divide of opinion here. Gankers love it, people who rely on range damage are being rewarded, siege humpers are getting free kills. Anyone who runs support in a large zerg, all-melee players, and all those people who keep getting one-shot from stealth while coming out of spawn are hating it, and for good reason.

>

> Downed state is the thing that differentiates GW2 from other mmo's. It's one of the unique characteristics of this game that make it possible for those of us not blessed with high-level reflexes (or who have physical/neurological impairments that will prevent them from ever being able to do that no matter how much they play) to actually enjoy competitive wvw in a way that isn't possible with any other game. It's our one refuge from toxic elitists who'd like to remove us from the game completely.

>

> This change ruins the game for many large-scale fighters, which is what wvw is supposed to be about. Prefer small-scale fights? Go do PvP. Don't turn wvw into a mode where it's all about fast-twitch reflexes needing to survive the way pvp is. This is all we've got.

>

> One-shot ganking people from stealth is NOT skillful play, no matter how many thieves and mesmers want to pretend it is. It is NOT good for the game to have those groups spawn camping and instagibbing people. There is NO counter to it, if you happen to be their target, you run out of spawn, you die. That is not fun, it is annoying and discouraging.

>

> Large scale zerg play was horrible last night. 100% pirate ship, everyone afraid to commit to any kind of push. While I was on melee only (before I started using a L78 rifle I found in my inventory), I actually started losing participation because I went more than 10 minutes without getting a tag. 80% of pushes were fake pushes, and even the few that were real generally lasted just a few seconds and then it's retreat, retreat, retreat. Groups that were even numbers or even a bit bigger than us quickly retreated to their walls and sieges rather than risk an open-field fight. The only time I seriously got tags (prior to donning the rifle) were when we managed to swoop in on the backline of a preoccupied group. Oh, also the one time I got on an arrow cart got me about half the bags I ended up with for the night.

>

> This is not a fun style of play for a frontline melee zerg player.

>

> You want your small-scale, instakill, fast-twitch reflex or die kind of pvp, go play any of the many other mmo's out there designed for exactly that kind of play. Give me back the one game I can still have fun in.

 

I've died maybe ten or fifteen times in about 8 hours of play since the change went live and I'm playing on an almost completely glass rev on EU with a consistently fluctuating 150-300 ping. I've seen melee push just fine they just have to be more selective and intelligent about when they push and how they do it. I've gotten into roaming fights, medium scale fights and large scale zerg fights and I've been able to usually stay alive. The times I've died it was because I screwed up and got punished for it. This is how it should be. You should be afraid to commit you should have to be careful you should have to actually think about what you're doing in a fight and when you screw up you should get obliterated for it.

[Meviken.2054]

> @"urdriel.8496" said:

> > @"BlueMelody.6398" said:

> > Groups that were even numbers or even a bit bigger than us quickly retreated to their walls and sieges rather than risk an open-field fight.

>

> Oh, use of a defensive building to kill people, sound like some kind of STRATEGY.......

 

An effective one, too. Well, if you've got your supply renewing, which means someone has to go take enough camps and protect enough yaks. and you've got to have your towers to defend your keep and its approaches.

 

And you need people to defend your keep, too, because someone's going to try and take it. They won't get as much wxp for that, though, which is an issue.

[alphafert.6730]

> @"Gwaihir.1745" said:

> > @"BlueMelody.6398" said:

> > This is amazing for stealth+burst gankers, and arrow cart wizards, and absolute anathema for melee-only zerg players and identifiable commanders (pin-sniping is a thing).

> >

> > This should definitely not be a permanent thing.

>

> Permanent? No, but some huge changes to down state/ other mechanics.

> 1. No invuln phase upon being downed.

> 2. Greatly reduced res speed of down state players.

> 3. No damaging skills from down state. Only a cc and the skill 4 heal to get yourself back up. You lost your hp, you don't get to continue the fight so enjoy watching from the sidelines. That guy taking you on 1v3 doesn't deserve to have a down picking away when by all means that player has lost until they are revived.

> 4. No visible commander tag to opposing players.

> 5. Rework of scrapper and other traits affecting down skills.

>

> > @"alphafert.6730" said:

> > I am not a fan. I have played gw2 for over a year but just recently our small guild (3) got a guild hall and it is kind of forcing us to pvp/wvw. We can often do ok with our missions but (maybe its lack of skill) we res each other a lot getting us back much faster than running. This is going to cut out quite a few missions for us. pvp/wvw has been kind of an off-puting experience anyway

>

> You can still ress though? It just means that you don't get to bring a guy back until the fight is decided which is perfectly fine since they by all means lost. Should you win the fight its not a long wait to get your team back up.

 

Often one of us will occupy enemy while the other resses. You can't res from dead while in combat so yes this kinda puts an end to any cap/hold missions for us.

 

I also got killed several times trying to leave the spawn to meet up with the com on our map last night. A few of those times several friendlies past by just after death chasing off the enemy but by the time I respawned they were long gone leaving me to get killed again. Its not like I am going out with just any random build. I researched meta but there is no learning curve when a player appears & near insta kills well inside our territory. Its fine though, if you want only elites in wvw/pvp & no new players. I don't mind finding a new game as I am pretty much bored with pve

[Deimos.4263]

The people who like this change are playing the builds that need nerfs. Bring back defensive play.

[Limodriver.4106]

1. PPL complaining are the one still playing with same build same style

2. small grp has chance to take out big blob now

3. tagging problem can be solved by allowing contribution thru grps so if 1 person in ur grp tagged u get the credit too