Spellbreaker isn't op

[Swagg.9236]

> @"Master Ketsu.4569" said:

> > @Saiyan.1704 said:

> > Spellbreaker and Scourge are the strongest classes in this expansion thus far. They are the two classes anyone wouldn't mind having more of.

> >

> > You can talk semantics on this class but, list exactly which class is able to out-play a Spellbreaker 1v1 and/or in team fights. You can't mention Scourge either.

>

> Every class can fight Spellbreaker.

>

> Stop spamming skills in the warriors face and expect to win.

>

> I'm also an old GW1 player and like Ithilwen stated, this kind of punishment-for-spam system used to exist in GW1. I remember reading early threads on guru from low ranked whoru Assassin players in heroes ascent complaining about hexway followed by retorts from better players "Stop attacking when the mes casts empathy kitten u doin." It's the same principal with spellbreaker.

>

> This is a gitgud issue, not a balance issue. People are just spoiled in GW2 from not having to seriously deal with this kind of punishment so they mistakenly believe it's OP.

>

>

 

* Empathy couldn't get triggered by stray damage applied by other allies.

* GW1's attack speeds were far better spaced out (falling on average somewhere between a 1.33-1.00s interval rather than the ADHD 0.5-0s interval of GW2).

* The only skill remotely similar to Full Counter that made it into regular GW1 play was Shield Bash on a monk, and even if one triggered that skill's effect, it didn't delete half of your HP (and that of all nearby-range foes) instantaneously. It was also balanced to only work against melee skills. Full Counter procs against anything even if it's 1500 range away.

* You can't tell clones and illusions to stop spamming or turn off already applied sources of pulsing AoEs. It's incredibly easy to find damage on which to proc an activated Full Counter.

* There is no resource management to appropriately balance a skill like Full Counter on any cooldown.

* Even the damaging part of Full Counter itself provides evasion for the user.

* It's on the level of Thief's Steal in terms of passive proc stacking (so long as you just equip traits down the Spellbreaker line, pressing F2 nets you like 4 different passive effects in addition to the absurd base ability).

* On top of this, the "easiest designed class to play" (as advertised by the devs around launch) in a game without cross-classing is going to benefit or suffer from the fact that it is the "easiest to play." Given its straightforward and predictable, design, it's going to either be worthless or generally overtuned just so it can survive. Fighting a Warrior was already mildly tedious enough with all the leading stability, invuln procs, blocks and passive healing. Full Counter only pads that cycle even further. Yes, it's possible to fight a Spellbreaker, but doing so is an exercise in not pressing your buttons while the Spellbreaker gets to do whatever it wants. It's an encounter entirely reliant on hard counter gimmicks and excessive waiting. It's frustrating, and it's more of everything that has made GW2 PvP the joke it's been since 2014.

[Jinks.2057]

I am shocked at how easy it is to play SB. 1st game I was 1v2'n ppl and downing at least one. I only have like 136hrs on my warrior since I made him years ago, and I shouldn't be as competent at SB as I am now.

 

The ease of the class is broken, and AN really needs to address that issue.

 

Next up is scourge anyone got a good build for it?

[Zoltreez.6435]

As a necro that is Unwanted in like 50% of the games content since release and devs refuse to fix that.... i laugh when a Meta warrior cries about not being viable even tough its Meta in Almost everything since release....

[Loop.8106]

> @Lighter.5631 said:

> > @Loop.8106 said:

> > > @"Cloud Windfoot Omega.7485" said:

> > > > @CitizenKing.4912 said:

> > > > What's funny to me is how people react to a statement like "don't attack the spellbreaker you're dueling when he turns gold and shiny."

> > > >

> > > > I had a diamond player start talking about "Oh, I'm supposed to just run away and let him take the point?!"

> > > >

> > > > These people seem to want pvp to be pve where they can just mindlessly roll through their practiced rotation while standing outside of the fire.

> > >

> > > its funny because, they conflate "dont attack" with "disengage and run away"

> > > You can remain on point and not attack a enemy also on point.

> > > kitten there is no point in running away from the warrior using counter, they cant attack back when using it and they have no way to end the skill early. Your only worry is a teammate does not set off the counter, even then the damage is not really that high....

> >

> > Only you can't. Symbols, Clones, Ranger pets, Necro minions all proc full counter.

>

> dodge? it's like the only thing you need to dodge to avoid from a war anyway...

 

Even if I only dodge Full Counter, as you suggest. Endurance Regeneration without Vigor is 5 per second, 50 per 10 seconds (1 dodge every 10 seconds). This is a longer cooldown than that of Full Counter. But in reality you need to dodge more than just Full Counter. Such as Arc Divider and Breaching Strike as the Warrior get's unparalleled sustain from Adrenal Health that you need to prevent if you wish to win the duel in less than 15 minutes. You also need to dodge Rush (or block), and most importantly; Whirlwind Attack.

So that statement couldn't be further from the truth.

[Gambino.2109]

I love how people say.. Oooh it procs of aoes and pulsing stuff.... sooo?

 

you want your aoe crap to go and continue punishing people with out any consequence? Nope, you're getting ding

[Lalainnia.3598]

Watch a warriors animations just like its always been this time its a defensive tool for them tho with full counter. I do think the Cd is pretty low tho especially when discipline is taken which it kinda always should be 6 seconds is a bit to low.

[Omcrazy.4756]

> @Gambino.2109 said:

> I love how people say.. Oooh it procs of aoes and pulsing stuff.... sooo?

>

> you want your aoe crap to go and continue punishing people with out any consequence? Nope, you're getting ding

 

You are missing the point of those comments it seems. As a Radiant Hammer build I can go 1v1 with a SB. Winner is usually just who the better player is. I am not worried about other things proccing FC and I have the stab to avoid the CC chains. But conquest isn't 1v1 duels. In team fights its basically impossible for a warrior not to find something to trigger FC. Only way to not have it triggered in a team fight is to literally not fight in a team fight. Even not focusing the Warrior all he has to do is get close to you or a teammate while you are attacking someone else. The cleave from an auto attack is enough.

 

[Lan.1968]

> @Saiyan.1704 said:

> Spellbreaker and Scourge are the strongest classes in this expansion thus far. They are the two classes anyone wouldn't mind having more of.

>

> You can talk semantics on this class but, list exactly which class is able to out-play a Spellbreaker 1v1 and/or in team fights. You can't mention Scourge either.

 

ranger, deadeye, spellbreaker, holo, guardian. Basically anyone with range and understands kiting mechanics. There's no semantics to talk about here. Spellbreakers are only a threat when you're forced to fight him melee and honestly that is a very rare case.

[Omcrazy.4756]

> @Lan.1968 said:

> > @Saiyan.1704 said:

> > Spellbreaker and Scourge are the strongest classes in this expansion thus far. They are the two classes anyone wouldn't mind having more of.

> >

> > You can talk semantics on this class but, list exactly which class is able to out-play a Spellbreaker 1v1 and/or in team fights. You can't mention Scourge either.

>

> ranger, deadeye, spellbreaker, holo, guardian. Basically anyone with range and understands kiting mechanics. There's no semantics to talk about here. Spellbreakers are only a threat when you're forced to fight him melee and honestly that is a very rare case.

 

1v1 Spellbreaker is doable. I think most classes can stand up with them as long as you have some stab and know to avoid FC. But their sustain and damage in team fights is pretty off the charts.

[MidnightX.6294]

i want to dislike this whole thread.

[Dralor.3701]

> @Zoltreez.6435 said:

> As a necro that is Unwanted in like 50% of the games content since release and devs refuse to fix that.... i laugh when a Meta warrior cries about not being viable even tough its Meta in Almost everything since release....

 

Are you serious? Necro has almost always been viable in spvp and has been a staple of WvW.

 

[blastingmnktpoo.9637]

> @Omcrazy.4756 said:

> > @Lan.1968 said:

> > > @Saiyan.1704 said:

> > > Spellbreaker and Scourge are the strongest classes in this expansion thus far. They are the two classes anyone wouldn't mind having more of.

> > >

> > > You can talk semantics on this class but, list exactly which class is able to out-play a Spellbreaker 1v1 and/or in team fights. You can't mention Scourge either.

> >

> > ranger, deadeye, spellbreaker, holo, guardian. Basically anyone with range and understands kiting mechanics. There's no semantics to talk about here. Spellbreakers are only a threat when you're forced to fight him melee and honestly that is a very rare case.

>

> 1v1 Spellbreaker is doable. I think most classes can stand up with them as long as you have some stab and know to avoid FC. But their sustain and damage in team fights is pretty off the charts.

 

Spellbreakers aren't unbeatable, but they are definitely above the power curve. They have tons of damage, stab, and mobility they are very sticky and have high CC, great sustain and can be damage immune more than any other class, while still capping and de-capping unlike mesmer, engi, and guardian. Bottom line is that it has the offensive capabilities of a dps build, with the cc decap sustain potential of a bunker. That makes it OP.

[Vitali.5039]

> @Dralor.3701 said:

> > @Zoltreez.6435 said:

> > As a necro that is Unwanted in like 50% of the games content since release and devs refuse to fix that.... i laugh when a Meta warrior cries about not being viable even tough its Meta in Almost everything since release....

>

> Are you serious? Necro has almost always been viable in spvp and has been a staple of WvW.

>

 

50% yes: PvP/WvW/Open World

50% no: Dungeons/FOTM/Raids

 

But seems that the last part could change

[Mutaatti.2789]

> @Lan.1968 said:

> > @Saiyan.1704 said:

> > Spellbreaker and Scourge are the strongest classes in this expansion thus far. They are the two classes anyone wouldn't mind having more of.

> >

> > You can talk semantics on this class but, list exactly which class is able to out-play a Spellbreaker 1v1 and/or in team fights. You can't mention Scourge either.

>

> ranger, deadeye, spellbreaker, holo, guardian. Basically anyone with range and understands kiting mechanics. There's no semantics to talk about here. Spellbreakers are only a threat when you're forced to fight him melee and honestly that is a very rare case.

 

Wut?!???!!! Last sentence! "This is really very rare case??? In PvP? Fighting melee? Dafuq are you talking about? Whole gamemode is based on fighting inside circles. And while you could attack from range, it isnt enough because warr blocks everything until point is capped and hides.

 

If u go to decap, warr comes from hide and forces you off point. Then u again atk ranged and he blocks everything. Onlyone passing this is scourge. But scourge cant kite fast and warr outruns him and it becomes melee fight.

 

Most classes needs LoS to attacks to hit. There isnt many maps where warrs couldnt hide behind objects. And to be honest I

[Havok.6073]

> @Mutaatti.2789 said:

> > @Lan.1968 said:

> > > @Saiyan.1704 said:

> > > Spellbreaker and Scourge are the strongest classes in this expansion thus far. They are the two classes anyone wouldn't mind having more of.

> > >

> > > You can talk semantics on this class but, list exactly which class is able to out-play a Spellbreaker 1v1 and/or in team fights. You can't mention Scourge either.

> >

> > ranger, deadeye, spellbreaker, holo, guardian. Basically anyone with range and understands kiting mechanics. There's no semantics to talk about here. Spellbreakers are only a threat when you're forced to fight him melee and honestly that is a very rare case.

>

> Wut?!???!!! Last sentence! "This is really very rare case??? In PvP? Fighting melee? kitten are you talking about? Whole gamemode is based on fighting inside circles. And while you could attack from range, it isnt enough because warr blocks everything until point is capped and hides.

>

> If u go to decap, warr comes from hide and forces you off point. Then u again atk ranged and he blocks everything. Onlyone passing this is scourge. But scourge cant kite fast and warr outruns him and it becomes melee fight.

>

> Most classes needs LoS to attacks to hit. There isnt many maps where warrs couldnt hide behind objects. And to be honest I

 

 

..had a stroke? Hope not.

 

[Mutaatti.2789]

> @Havok.6073 said:

> > @Mutaatti.2789 said:

> > > @Lan.1968 said:

> > > > @Saiyan.1704 said:

> > > > Spellbreaker and Scourge are the strongest classes in this expansion thus far. They are the two classes anyone wouldn't mind having more of.

> > > >

> > > > You can talk semantics on this class but, list exactly which class is able to out-play a Spellbreaker 1v1 and/or in team fights. You can't mention Scourge either.

> > >

> > > ranger, deadeye, spellbreaker, holo, guardian. Basically anyone with range and understands kiting mechanics. There's no semantics to talk about here. Spellbreakers are only a threat when you're forced to fight him melee and honestly that is a very rare case.

> >

> > Wut?!???!!! Last sentence! "This is really very rare case??? In PvP? Fighting melee? kitten are you talking about? Whole gamemode is based on fighting inside circles. And while you could attack from range, it isnt enough because warr blocks everything until point is capped and hides.

> >

> > If u go to decap, warr comes from hide and forces you off point. Then u again atk ranged and he blocks everything. Onlyone passing this is scourge. But scourge cant kite fast and warr outruns him and it becomes melee fight.

> >

> > Most classes needs LoS to attacks to hit. There isnt many maps where warrs couldnt hide behind objects. And to be honest I

>

>

> ..had a stroke? Hope not.

>

 

Had b o n e r when writing that? Seems so.

[Nutshel.7264]

I play fresh air ele and I will tell you dueling spellbreaker is doable in spvp (at least these that I met) but the issue is if I do single mistake I lose meanwhile he can do basically whatever he wants. I fail to dodge/blind stun? I die, I fail to stop casts or he times fullcounter well? I die. He manages to get lucky random dodge on my stun in the very few window where he does not have stab on? I lose all the damage potential and die. I fail to dodge/blind any of his bigger attacks?(which most have super low cd) I die. Sure it is sometimes possible to recover from failing one of the above but at that point fight is so difficult chances of winning are very low.

 

The very same seem to be true in wvw but worse. They are borderline unkillable if have any skill to speak of. There single mistake is even more heavily punished than in spvp, warriors have more hp/toughness and killing them takes lot longer so chances to mess up/run out of dodges/blinds increases while at the same time their attacks seem to deal just as much if not more % damage to my health pool as in spvp.

 

And to top this all off they also have grater mobility (both in fights and out off it) so kiting is extremely difficult with all the stability/condition immunity/insta root break. They actually are about to die? Most of time they will get away, can't keep up the chase long enough for their cds to run out so i can cc them an and actually finish, or by the time I do catch them it is only because they have recovered enough to fight back.

 

It is just like dd ele of old except he hits harder, takes longer to kill, is harder to stun, impossible to immobilize, got lower cds and doesn't rely on long setups/might stacking in area to actually do damage. Basically like dd ele but without the weaknesses that ele had.

[Vitali.5039]

> @Nutshel.7264 said:

> I play fresh air ele and I will tell you dueling spellbreaker is doable in spvp (at least these that I met) but the issue is if I do single mistake I lose meanwhile he can do basically whatever he wants. I fail to dodge/blind stun? I die, I fail to stop casts or he times fullcounter well? I die. He manages to get lucky random dodge on my stun in the very few window where he does not have stab on? I lose all the damage potential and die. I fail to dodge/blind any of his bigger attacks?(which most have super low cd) I die. Sure it is sometimes possible to recover from failing one of the above but at that point fight is so difficult chances of winning are very low.

>

> The very same seem to be true in wvw but worse. They are borderline unkillable if have any skill to speak of. There single mistake is even more heavily punished than in spvp, warriors have more hp/toughness and killing them takes lot longer so chances to mess up/run out of dodges/blinds increases while at the same time their attacks seem to deal just as much if not more % damage to my health pool as in spvp.

>

> And to top this all off they also have grater mobility (both in fights and out off it) so kiting is extremely difficult with all the stability/condition immunity/insta root break. They actually are about to die? Most of time they will get away, can't keep up the chase long enough for their cds to run out so i can cc them an and actually finish, or by the time I do catch them it is only because they have recovered enough to fight back.

>

> It is just like dd ele of old except he hits harder, takes longer to kill, is harder to stun, impossible to immobilize, got lower cds and doesn't rely on long setups/might stacking in area to actually do damage. Basically like dd ele but without the weaknesses that ele had.

 

Just wait when they'll add celestial for a off season test.

If now they are manageable (they run 99% a power amulet) they'll be more than broken with Strength/X/Spellbreaker Revenge Counter Hammer.

And Scourges will become debuffer/tank/rezbot/dps.. Elementalists? Cele Ele will not be a problem, same for other classes.

They are talking about 500 per stat celestial amulet for test, we'll see if this will become healthy for PvP balance..

[NotASmurf.1725]

FETCH ME THE DOWNVOTE STRETCHER

[miriforst.1290]

Full counter as a mechanic might have worked out better on a class like necromancer, you know a class complaining about having no blocks or invulns and who are incredibly easy to kill with raw focus fire. But apparently the class known for its massive regen,cc, stability, high resistance upptime and walls of invuln, blocks and other fun stuff needed another way to invuln, stab, apply resistance and CC (unblockable) on a short cooldown. I'm almost thinking it goes like this "so if we give spellbreakers a tool to survive they might not need those other survivability skills so we can increase diversity" when the real question is why you wouldn't load up on all available tools to survive. I know i would. Thinking about it they heavy handedly revamped thieves acrobatics traitline because they knew the mess daredevil would cause if you added those two together.

 

I think its another scrapper happening, a strong class in conquest who is weak in pve (and they both took a survivable class and made it even more so). Hey atleast you are sought after in wvw as well. Well the scrapper was nerfed about every balance patch for over a year until it was considered balanced by the pvp community (and possibly a few more times for good measure) so this is in all probability not the final iteration of spellbreaker.

[Crackers.9628]

> @Dralor.3701 said:

> Game has been out long enough for everyone to know warrior isn't allowed to be viable in any game mode.

 

Thanks for the laugh

[Regon Phoenix.8215]

Can i report this guy trolling? Because only hardcore troll would ever say that spellbreaker isn't the most OP class since the dawn of time.

[Crinn.7864]

> @Dralor.3701 said:

> > @Zoltreez.6435 said:

> > As a necro that is Unwanted in like 50% of the games content since release and devs refuse to fix that.... i laugh when a Meta warrior cries about not being viable even tough its Meta in Almost everything since release....

>

> Are you serious? Necro has almost always been viable in spvp and has been a staple of WvW.

>

 

The only reason necro was ever meta in sPvP pre-PoF was to counter Eles.

[Malafaia.8903]

> @Crinn.7864 said:

> Ya'll do realize that if full counter gets proc'ed there is still a time delay on the damage and cc being applied.

>

> When I fight a spellbreaker, I usually just intentionally hit the counter, and then dodge roll it's attack.

 

Lol, i'm doing the same. It ends that painful waiting.

BUT right after you have some blocks, some invus, some evades... It can't take so much time to kill a spec, specially if the others can die so easily, even dealing less damage sometimes. Problem with spellbreakers is that they do a lot of things well done.

[Exciton.8942]

 

> @Crinn.7864 said:

> Ya'll do realize that if full counter gets proc'ed there is still a time delay on the damage and cc being applied.

>

> When I fight a spellbreaker, I usually just intentionally hit the counter, and then dodge roll it's attack.

 

I learn something new on forum every day.

 

So I just read you intentionally hit full counter so you can intentionally waste a dodge and proc protection and resistance.