Tyson.5160 Posted June 21, 2018 Share Posted June 21, 2018 > @"ProtoGunner.4953" said: > Lol, two bosses in last raid and 7 months later nothing. In WoW there would be two new raids with like 15-20 bosses. > @"Malediktus.9250" said: > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > @"ProtoGunner.4953" said: > > > Lol, two bosses in last raid and 7 months later nothing. In WoW there would be two new raids with like 15-20 bosses. > > > > In WoW you'd also have lost all usefulness of gear by now and would be required to play the raids to reacquire what item level degradation had done to your character thus making reward design a lot easier. > > > > Not to mention the subscription and development team size. > > > > As pointed out earlier, if you want to play a raid centric MMO, go play WoW. > I would easily a gear treadmill if it would mean faster content. But it does not work that way. Item spiral and new raids are independed of each other. What you are seeking is essentially Wow, because they place the story content behind Raids. Like if Gw2 was like Wow, Mordremoth would have been a raid, Balthazar fight would be a raid. The reason it is not Gw2 like is because they want everyone to see the story. Anet has said they developed this as niche and “side” stories, which has been debated in other threads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbobpataki.4796 Posted June 21, 2018 Share Posted June 21, 2018 > @"Thornwolf.9721" said: > > @"NotOverlyCheesy.9427" said: > > > @"Thornwolf.9721" said: > > > > @"tim.4596" said: > > > > > @"Thornwolf.9721" said: > > > > > Im going to say the same thing everyone says to the "New race" Issue when it's something that seems irrelevant to them. "I'd prefer to have them focus resources of something of more worth." I have raided and I mean it's great and all and it definitely is niche, It follows the meta (an Automatic no no in this game.) And goes against the core principles this game was built on. You can whine and complain all you want about how you're bored and how you don't have content, but your literally like the 10% of the player-base, you don't make up the vast majority and believe it or not ALOT of people did not even want raids to begin with. > > > > > > > > > > Can't be bothered to give a kitten about a mode I rarely if ever play, and have basically written off because of how pissed I Was that they turned the underworld into a raid. WvW and PvP are much larger game modes with a larger following and they NEVER GET CRAP. Be glad you even receive anything and sit in your corner, wait your turn for christs sake mate. I personally would rather them focus on bringing back GUILD WARS, and Alliances/alliance battles than focus on a small niche game-mode that has never and really probably really will never have a massive relevance in the game. > > > > > > > > I feel like I'm reading more and more posts like that, but I really don't understand, because even though @"maddoctor.2738" post above shows that Raids are appreciated by only a very small part of the community. > > > > > > > > -The great thing about this game, is precisely its fight mechanics and how dynamics it makes both Open World PVE content and Raids. > > > > > > > > -I'm not too sure about your comment on PVP. PVP, in my opinion, is _seriously_ lacking in this game despite all the effort put into it by ArenaNet. I could talk about it at length, but I'll just quickly say that ESL completely disregarded it, most of the GW2 twitch focus is based on casual content looking at twitch, and that without some individual in the GW2 community who strongly picked up this game mode and made it understandable to more player, it would have died a long time ago. > > > > > > > > So what I fail to understand is that: Do only 10% of the community of this game see the great potential of raids and min/maxing? Am I too optimistic about how great GW2 raids are? or do people just can't complete raids, because their difficulties is too great and therefore, should Anet, as it's been strongly discussed since on a "hot topic "on the forum , find ways to make it's high end content more accessible ? > > > > > > > > Also, you say that "ALOT of people did not even want raids to begin with"; what do people want then? Can you really make a game interesting if it only contains non-challenging content? Isn't challenging yourself, the very essence of what makes you better at something? I'm confused with what you are saying... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Raids in this game are no more challenging that raids in any game, alot of people came to this game because it promised to be different and it failed. We have a "Soft" trinity, with one tank and a few heal specs. Point is that the raids being designed around either being Vipers, or Zerker (If you're doing anything but healing, and viper druid is still prefered by most high end raiding parties) Is horrible by default. Im not saying they are bad and I have enjoyed them for what they are worth, but they dont bring anything to the table that dungeons, fractals or any other form of group content couldn't. It's A ten man let me kitten off to how I drop 40k dps and how beast I am, at a target that stands there and typically outside of its specific mechanics is just a over-sized damage sponge. > > > > > > This game has failed and continues to fail with the majority of the things it has potential in, and it will only be continuing down this path because the dev's are too ignorant to see that we the playerbase know more so what is best for the game then they do. Raids should have had a more accessible form so you could go in and see the STORY as there is alot of lore in there, but no they didn't do that. The whole white mantle/lazarus storyline really had a good kick-off in there and when the living world tied into that we had a huge issue of "If you don't raid you wont know the entire story." Im glad that the new Wing did not go forward with that, but im still mad that the underworld is a raid wing and not a living story/guild hall. Mounts, raids... they were never needed to make guild wars any more than it was before and Id argue both go against alot of what the game was built toward. Fractals were the high end pve end game, and now they take a back-seat somewhat which is fine ( I don't want elitists in my fractals anyhow.) > > > > > > Personally Id rather a new race for the cosmetics, the headcannon and even just being different to be a thing that gets looked at more than raids because its a selling point. You can't sell guild wars 2 expansions riding on raids, because alot of the playerbase who are here don't seem interested one bit and the ones who are will already be doing it even without the actual support of marketing. Anyone from other games will probably just ask why bother, because why would I come from WoW where raiding is designed to be the whole premise behind the end-game to a game that does not even know what it is trying to be? Raids help nothing, they bring nothing and I doubt they will ever be more than they are right now. They are Niche and they have a place with the try-hards and the people that make gaming unfun, those people can continue to kitten off to themselves when they get content ( Which I honestly could care less if you have to wait two or more years, as niche as it is I Don't see it as a priority.) > > > > Whoa, at least we know where you stand on this issue. > > > > On the other hand I'm extremely grateful that you are not a game designer and I can continue to have fun with my static group every week as we clear raids and wait for a new wing to pop. > > If I was a Dev raids would never of happened to begin with, I would of focused on making fractals the end game or bringing in more dungeons tied to the events of the story. I also would of made kitten sure the eliet specs were not the cluster they are now, Reworked the core classes to make them viable so you don't need to run the elite specs and that we stayed true to the core of what this game was built upon. I would not of caved to the whiny elitists who crave to have "Big kitten" syndrom, there are other games that cater to that. > > But then again if I had been a dev, the core gw2 would of been completely different and would of had a more defined destination we also would probably have larger expansions with more content and the living world would be the focus of the team inbetween expansions. We would split between expansion and LW so that maybe half would be on each, Guilds would of gotten more attention and you would only be able to be in one guild but that would give you perks. IT would matter. I could care less what you think or about your static, good for you. Go kitten to your team being able to kill the raid wings bosses, Im happy that you can and continue to go in and do raids but by no means do I feel that warrants development time in haste or bulk toward another wing. Who hurt you? A lot of people here have made good faith arguments on both sides, but you just sound incredibly biased. I'm going to echo the person who said they're happy you're not a dev. Like it or not raids are in this game and have an active community. This community has people who have bought both expansions and potentially have dropped some money here or there for gems. You can dislike the game mode, nobody is forcing you to play it, but don't force us to not play it too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thornwolf.9721 Posted June 21, 2018 Share Posted June 21, 2018 > @"bigbobpataki.4796" said: > > @"Thornwolf.9721" said: > > > @"NotOverlyCheesy.9427" said: > > > > @"Thornwolf.9721" said: > > > > > @"tim.4596" said: > > > > > > @"Thornwolf.9721" said: > > > > > > Im going to say the same thing everyone says to the "New race" Issue when it's something that seems irrelevant to them. "I'd prefer to have them focus resources of something of more worth." I have raided and I mean it's great and all and it definitely is niche, It follows the meta (an Automatic no no in this game.) And goes against the core principles this game was built on. You can whine and complain all you want about how you're bored and how you don't have content, but your literally like the 10% of the player-base, you don't make up the vast majority and believe it or not ALOT of people did not even want raids to begin with. > > > > > > > > > > > > Can't be bothered to give a kitten about a mode I rarely if ever play, and have basically written off because of how pissed I Was that they turned the underworld into a raid. WvW and PvP are much larger game modes with a larger following and they NEVER GET CRAP. Be glad you even receive anything and sit in your corner, wait your turn for christs sake mate. I personally would rather them focus on bringing back GUILD WARS, and Alliances/alliance battles than focus on a small niche game-mode that has never and really probably really will never have a massive relevance in the game. > > > > > > > > > > I feel like I'm reading more and more posts like that, but I really don't understand, because even though @"maddoctor.2738" post above shows that Raids are appreciated by only a very small part of the community. > > > > > > > > > > -The great thing about this game, is precisely its fight mechanics and how dynamics it makes both Open World PVE content and Raids. > > > > > > > > > > -I'm not too sure about your comment on PVP. PVP, in my opinion, is _seriously_ lacking in this game despite all the effort put into it by ArenaNet. I could talk about it at length, but I'll just quickly say that ESL completely disregarded it, most of the GW2 twitch focus is based on casual content looking at twitch, and that without some individual in the GW2 community who strongly picked up this game mode and made it understandable to more player, it would have died a long time ago. > > > > > > > > > > So what I fail to understand is that: Do only 10% of the community of this game see the great potential of raids and min/maxing? Am I too optimistic about how great GW2 raids are? or do people just can't complete raids, because their difficulties is too great and therefore, should Anet, as it's been strongly discussed since on a "hot topic "on the forum , find ways to make it's high end content more accessible ? > > > > > > > > > > Also, you say that "ALOT of people did not even want raids to begin with"; what do people want then? Can you really make a game interesting if it only contains non-challenging content? Isn't challenging yourself, the very essence of what makes you better at something? I'm confused with what you are saying... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Raids in this game are no more challenging that raids in any game, alot of people came to this game because it promised to be different and it failed. We have a "Soft" trinity, with one tank and a few heal specs. Point is that the raids being designed around either being Vipers, or Zerker (If you're doing anything but healing, and viper druid is still prefered by most high end raiding parties) Is horrible by default. Im not saying they are bad and I have enjoyed them for what they are worth, but they dont bring anything to the table that dungeons, fractals or any other form of group content couldn't. It's A ten man let me kitten off to how I drop 40k dps and how beast I am, at a target that stands there and typically outside of its specific mechanics is just a over-sized damage sponge. > > > > > > > > This game has failed and continues to fail with the majority of the things it has potential in, and it will only be continuing down this path because the dev's are too ignorant to see that we the playerbase know more so what is best for the game then they do. Raids should have had a more accessible form so you could go in and see the STORY as there is alot of lore in there, but no they didn't do that. The whole white mantle/lazarus storyline really had a good kick-off in there and when the living world tied into that we had a huge issue of "If you don't raid you wont know the entire story." Im glad that the new Wing did not go forward with that, but im still mad that the underworld is a raid wing and not a living story/guild hall. Mounts, raids... they were never needed to make guild wars any more than it was before and Id argue both go against alot of what the game was built toward. Fractals were the high end pve end game, and now they take a back-seat somewhat which is fine ( I don't want elitists in my fractals anyhow.) > > > > > > > > Personally Id rather a new race for the cosmetics, the headcannon and even just being different to be a thing that gets looked at more than raids because its a selling point. You can't sell guild wars 2 expansions riding on raids, because alot of the playerbase who are here don't seem interested one bit and the ones who are will already be doing it even without the actual support of marketing. Anyone from other games will probably just ask why bother, because why would I come from WoW where raiding is designed to be the whole premise behind the end-game to a game that does not even know what it is trying to be? Raids help nothing, they bring nothing and I doubt they will ever be more than they are right now. They are Niche and they have a place with the try-hards and the people that make gaming unfun, those people can continue to kitten off to themselves when they get content ( Which I honestly could care less if you have to wait two or more years, as niche as it is I Don't see it as a priority.) > > > > > > Whoa, at least we know where you stand on this issue. > > > > > > On the other hand I'm extremely grateful that you are not a game designer and I can continue to have fun with my static group every week as we clear raids and wait for a new wing to pop. > > > > If I was a Dev raids would never of happened to begin with, I would of focused on making fractals the end game or bringing in more dungeons tied to the events of the story. I also would of made kitten sure the eliet specs were not the cluster they are now, Reworked the core classes to make them viable so you don't need to run the elite specs and that we stayed true to the core of what this game was built upon. I would not of caved to the whiny elitists who crave to have "Big kitten" syndrom, there are other games that cater to that. > > > > But then again if I had been a dev, the core gw2 would of been completely different and would of had a more defined destination we also would probably have larger expansions with more content and the living world would be the focus of the team inbetween expansions. We would split between expansion and LW so that maybe half would be on each, Guilds would of gotten more attention and you would only be able to be in one guild but that would give you perks. IT would matter. I could care less what you think or about your static, good for you. Go kitten to your team being able to kill the raid wings bosses, Im happy that you can and continue to go in and do raids but by no means do I feel that warrants development time in haste or bulk toward another wing. > > Who hurt you? > > A lot of people here have made good faith arguments on both sides, but you just sound incredibly biased. I'm going to echo the person who said they're happy you're not a dev. Like it or not raids are in this game and have an active community. This community has people who have bought both expansions and potentially have dropped some money here or there for gems. You can dislike the game mode, nobody is forcing you to play it, but don't force us to not play it too. Im not hurt by it and Im fine that they are here, I am not fine with a vocal minority bitching that they can't have what they want Right now at this moment. The dev's work at their own pace and clearly they have an inclination that there is a method to the madness. The LS was late so I assume the raid would be late too, I would not want the raid to come out alongside the LW anyhow; Raids as they are now can have their own patch which introduces the raid. Hall of chains had hints at its arrival planted before it actually showed up, so we will have to wait and see if its the same with this patch and the new wing. Like I said quality over quantity, either you want raids that are close your eyes and push buttons type game-play with lackluster designs in both environment and enemies OR you want a unique experience. It's not the mode I dislike, it's the people who claim it as their specific "Niche". They shit on anything they see as beneath their desires or what they would pour resources on, Ideas or opinions aside they don't care. So likewise I don't really care that there is no new raid and all the whiny raiders here who are complaining need to stop, you will get a new wing that is 100% A fact. When I can't say, but I know you will get one so at least you know without a shadow of a doubt that there WILL be a new wing and you WILL get to play it. That is more than can be said about other modes people would like to see, or are currently still doing that are getting no attention once so ever; You really need to look at the glass half full rather than half empty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maddoctor.2738 Posted June 21, 2018 Share Posted June 21, 2018 > @"Thornwolf.9721" said: > They make plenty of money from the gemstore and with mounts, gliders and everything else I DOUBT highly that A-net is suffering too much considering how many whales play this game. In order to sell mounts, gliders and any other gem store item, they need to have playing players. I'm a bit doubtful that this game has that many "whales" playing, it's not a mobile game after all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malediktus.9250 Posted June 21, 2018 Share Posted June 21, 2018 > @"Tyson.5160" said: > > @"ProtoGunner.4953" said: > > Lol, two bosses in last raid and 7 months later nothing. In WoW there would be two new raids with like 15-20 bosses. > > > @"Malediktus.9250" said: > > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > > @"ProtoGunner.4953" said: > > > > Lol, two bosses in last raid and 7 months later nothing. In WoW there would be two new raids with like 15-20 bosses. > > > > > > In WoW you'd also have lost all usefulness of gear by now and would be required to play the raids to reacquire what item level degradation had done to your character thus making reward design a lot easier. > > > > > > Not to mention the subscription and development team size. > > > > > > As pointed out earlier, if you want to play a raid centric MMO, go play WoW. > > I would easily a gear treadmill if it would mean faster content. But it does not work that way. Item spiral and new raids are independed of each other. > > What you are seeking is essentially Wow, because they place the story content behind Raids. Like if Gw2 was like Wow, Mordremoth would have been a raid, Balthazar fight would be a raid. The reason it is not Gw2 like is because they want everyone to see the story. Anet has said they developed this as niche and “side” stories, which has been debated in other threads. But the story of GW2 is garbage throwaway content. If you want a good story you play a single player game or better read a book. The story is literally the worst part of this game, if I would be game director it would be the first thing I would stop spending dev time on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Einlanzer.1627 Posted June 21, 2018 Share Posted June 21, 2018 I still think we should be getting regular dungeons over raids for the most part. 10 man content is more niche than 5 man content and they're over-relying on FotM for the latter (another one of Colin's bad calls years ago that just persists as an unchallenged status quo). The game is really starved for full-sized, immersive world dungeons for 5 players without huge entry barriers. Think of how awesome a "cave of wonders" style dungeon hidden in the Crystal Desert somewhere would have been. Huge missed opportunity (just like not getting land spears.) Really, though, I'm starting to think they focus too much on open world PvE and they need to divert more of those resources into instanced content in general. The problem with too much emphasis on open world PvE is that competing metas will eventually spread the player base too thin. It already is a small problem and is very likely to grow into a bigger one over time. New zones should mostly be exploration focused, with map-wide metas being a minority of new zone content. So, in short, I say we're at a point where some resources need to be diverted away from open world stuff and toward instanced content including Fractal mini-dungeons, full scale world dungeons, and the occasional raid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astralporing.1957 Posted June 21, 2018 Share Posted June 21, 2018 > @"Malediktus.9250" said: > > @"Tyson.5160" said: > > > @"ProtoGunner.4953" said: > > > Lol, two bosses in last raid and 7 months later nothing. In WoW there would be two new raids with like 15-20 bosses. > > > > > @"Malediktus.9250" said: > > > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > > > @"ProtoGunner.4953" said: > > > > > Lol, two bosses in last raid and 7 months later nothing. In WoW there would be two new raids with like 15-20 bosses. > > > > > > > > In WoW you'd also have lost all usefulness of gear by now and would be required to play the raids to reacquire what item level degradation had done to your character thus making reward design a lot easier. > > > > > > > > Not to mention the subscription and development team size. > > > > > > > > As pointed out earlier, if you want to play a raid centric MMO, go play WoW. > > > I would easily a gear treadmill if it would mean faster content. But it does not work that way. Item spiral and new raids are independed of each other. > > > > What you are seeking is essentially Wow, because they place the story content behind Raids. Like if Gw2 was like Wow, Mordremoth would have been a raid, Balthazar fight would be a raid. The reason it is not Gw2 like is because they want everyone to see the story. Anet has said they developed this as niche and “side” stories, which has been debated in other threads. > But the story of GW2 is garbage throwaway content. If you want a good story you play a single player game or better read a book. > The story is literally the worst part of this game, if I would be game director it would be the first thing I would stop spending dev time on. Then we should be thankful that you _aren't_ the game director. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyson.5160 Posted June 21, 2018 Share Posted June 21, 2018 > @"Malediktus.9250" said: > > @"Tyson.5160" said: > > > @"ProtoGunner.4953" said: > > > Lol, two bosses in last raid and 7 months later nothing. In WoW there would be two new raids with like 15-20 bosses. > > > > > @"Malediktus.9250" said: > > > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > > > @"ProtoGunner.4953" said: > > > > > Lol, two bosses in last raid and 7 months later nothing. In WoW there would be two new raids with like 15-20 bosses. > > > > > > > > In WoW you'd also have lost all usefulness of gear by now and would be required to play the raids to reacquire what item level degradation had done to your character thus making reward design a lot easier. > > > > > > > > Not to mention the subscription and development team size. > > > > > > > > As pointed out earlier, if you want to play a raid centric MMO, go play WoW. > > > I would easily a gear treadmill if it would mean faster content. But it does not work that way. Item spiral and new raids are independed of each other. > > > > What you are seeking is essentially Wow, because they place the story content behind Raids. Like if Gw2 was like Wow, Mordremoth would have been a raid, Balthazar fight would be a raid. The reason it is not Gw2 like is because they want everyone to see the story. Anet has said they developed this as niche and “side” stories, which has been debated in other threads. > But the story of GW2 is garbage throwaway content. If you want a good story you play a single player game or better read a book. > The story is literally the worst part of this game, if I would be game director it would be the first thing I would stop spending dev time on. That’s a matter of opinion, right? If they got rid of the story, Malediktus, you will kill the game, flat out, no question about it. Personally if they had to give me choice on only one type of content, then I was always choose story, first and always. I love the lore and story of Tyria. It sounds to me that you want the game to be Raids and only Raids ( I think you mentioned fractals too), it isn’t and won’t be. Which leaves you with a couple choices. Wait patiently for the new raid wing, join a game like WoW which is raid focused, you’ll definitely get your fix there, or possibly the combination of the two( I’m sure there’s more choices I haven’t covered) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grogba.6204 Posted June 22, 2018 Share Posted June 22, 2018 > @"Tyson.5160" said: > It sounds to me that you want the game to be Raids and only Raids ( I think you mentioned fractals too), it isn’t and won’t be. Which leaves you with a couple choices. Wait patiently for the new raid wing, join a game like WoW which is raid focused, you’ll definitely get your fix there, or possibly the combination of the two( I’m sure there’s more choices I haven’t covered) With the key difference being that the combat system in Guild Wars 2 is very different from the system in WoW. For better or for worse, Guild Wars 2 _is_ unique in this regard even if it has a different focus (A question which only the devs can answer). Much in the same way, if we don't value progression for progression's sake, WoW and GW2 are also very different considering that we can still use the same gear forever. Both things together mean that Guild Wars 2 is both less and more skillful than WoW in a lot of ways as your performance in GW2 is much more dependent on your way of playing while progress in WoW depends more on your gear (or used to, cannot speak for the current game). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyson.5160 Posted June 22, 2018 Share Posted June 22, 2018 > @"Grogba.6204" said: > > @"Tyson.5160" said: > > > It sounds to me that you want the game to be Raids and only Raids ( I think you mentioned fractals too), it isn’t and won’t be. Which leaves you with a couple choices. Wait patiently for the new raid wing, join a game like WoW which is raid focused, you’ll definitely get your fix there, or possibly the combination of the two( I’m sure there’s more choices I haven’t covered) > > With the key difference being that the combat system in Guild Wars 2 is very different from the system in WoW. For better or for worse, Guild Wars 2 _is_ unique in this regard even if it has a different focus (A question which only the devs can answer). Much in the same way, if we don't value progression for progression's sake, WoW and GW2 are also very different considering that we can still use the same gear forever. Both things together mean that Guild Wars 2 is both less and more skillful than WoW in a lot of ways as your performance in GW2 is much more dependent on your way of playing while progress in WoW depends more on your gear (or used to, cannot speak for the current game). Sure, but the complexity and difficulty could be up Malediktus alley. Multiple raid bosses, multiple wings, the complex stages for the different bosses. I get the feeling that he has an Orange and is expecting it to turn into an Apple. This isn’t the way GW2 is designed and that won’t change. As discussed on other threads, the only way for Raids to get more support is if the majority of the population played them, which means they would have to re design raids for a larger audience. The devs already said that won’t be doing that, which means 7-9 months to potentially a year for each new raid wing, which others again have pointed out in other threads is the reality of the situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maddoctor.2738 Posted June 22, 2018 Share Posted June 22, 2018 > @"Einlanzer.1627" said: > Really, though, I'm starting to think they focus too much on open world PvE and they need to divert more of those resources into instanced content in general. The problem with too much emphasis on open world PvE is that competing metas will eventually spread the player base too thin. It already is a small problem and is very likely to grow into a bigger one over time. New zones should mostly be exploration focused, with map-wide metas being a minority of new zone content. They ARE directing resources to instanced content and they have been since Living World Season 2, but it's mostly story instances. Their story instances are getting more and more dungeon-like, nothing like the early days of story instances of the personal story that were mostly boring sacks of hit points that you had to deal with. Some of the achievements in Season 2 were really hard to solo and parties were formed for those. Then with Heart of Thorns we even got a separate, 5-man, version of the last boss (Migraine achievement) The question is, how successful all these have been. The main problem with dungeons, compared to Fractals, is the rewards. All the new Fractals use the same reward structure as old Fractals, while dungeons need a completely new, separate, reward system in order to work. > @"Tyson.5160" said: > As discussed on other threads, the only way for Raids to get more support is if the majority of the population played them, which means they would have to re design raids for a larger audience. Yet we get Bounties on all new zones, we get griffon races, new collections, new episode meta achievements, new adventures and new fractals all of which aren't content for the majority of the population either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyson.5160 Posted June 22, 2018 Share Posted June 22, 2018 > @"maddoctor.2738" said: > > @"Einlanzer.1627" said: > > Really, though, I'm starting to think they focus too much on open world PvE and they need to divert more of those resources into instanced content in general. The problem with too much emphasis on open world PvE is that competing metas will eventually spread the player base too thin. It already is a small problem and is very likely to grow into a bigger one over time. New zones should mostly be exploration focused, with map-wide metas being a minority of new zone content. > > They ARE directing resources to instanced content and they have been since Living World Season 2, but it's mostly story instances. Their story instances are getting more and more dungeon-like, nothing like the early days of story instances of the personal story that were mostly boring sacks of hit points that you had to deal with. Some of the achievements in Season 2 were really hard to solo and parties were formed for those. Then with Heart of Thorns we even got a separate, 5-man, version of the last boss (Migraine achievement) The question is, how successful all these have been. > > The main problem with dungeons, compared to Fractals, is the rewards. All the new Fractals use the same reward structure as old Fractals, while dungeons need a completely new, separate, reward system in order to work. > > > @"Tyson.5160" said: > > As discussed on other threads, the only way for Raids to get more support is if the majority of the population played them, which means they would have to re design raids for a larger audience. > > Yet we get Bounties on all new zones, we get griffon races, new collections, new episode meta achievements, new adventures and new fractals all of which aren't content for the majority of the population either. Ok, but that is still the LW team, no? From my understanding there are three teams making Living World and a mega team working on expansion stuff. Raids has one small team. Anet also has the grand numbers and data. They are putting a lot of their effort and time in story, LW and expansion creation. Anet has said that Raids were not designed for everyone and are reserved for a smaller section of the community. The proof is in the pudding, no? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maddoctor.2738 Posted June 22, 2018 Share Posted June 22, 2018 > @"Tyson.5160" said: > Ok, but that is still the LW team, no? Does it matter? If anything it means the LW team is creating things that are not for the majority and "wasting" their time. So if the LW is supposed to be for everyone and not for a smaller section of the community then they aren't using their resources well. Or, the alternative, having such content that is not for the majority is how the game goes forward and survives, just image a LW episode without all that "minority" content. What are you left with? Just the story instances and some big maps to roam around, kill random mobs and mine rocks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyson.5160 Posted June 22, 2018 Share Posted June 22, 2018 > @"maddoctor.2738" said: > > @"Tyson.5160" said: > > Ok, but that is still the LW team, no? > > Does it matter? If anything it means the LW team is creating things that are not for the majority and "wasting" their time. So if the LW is supposed to be for everyone and not for a smaller section of the community then they aren't using their resources well. Or, the alternative, having such content that is not for the majority is how the game goes forward and survives, just image a LW episode without all that "minority" content. What are you left with? Just the story instances and some big maps to roam around, kill random mobs and mine rocks. Again, Anet has the actual numbers, they are putting their resources into LW and expansion stuff. We honestly don’t know how many people complete what. Anet does and they are still designing it. What are you suggesting then, focus on raid content? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BadSanta.6527 Posted June 22, 2018 Share Posted June 22, 2018 Honestly I hope no more raids , add fractals is much better and everyone can play not only the elites. If they add dungeons it is even better then raid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maddoctor.2738 Posted June 22, 2018 Share Posted June 22, 2018 > @"Tyson.5160" said: > Again, Anet has the actual numbers, they are putting their resources into LW and expansion stuff. We honestly don’t know how many people complete what. Anet does and they are still designing it. What are you suggesting then, focus on raid content? I'm saying that much like Raids are called "niche" content, the same is true for major parts of the Living World episodes. So the argument "it's niche so it shouldn't get content updates" is at best weak, since the LW episodes are packed full with niche content themselves. Just like those -other- parts keep getting released, even though they aren't played by any kind of majority, Raids should also be released without any need for them to be played by this so called "majority". Just like all other parts of the LW do not need to be played by this "majority" either. The LW, and of course expansions, aren't one set of content that everyone likes, they are a collection of multiple little types of content, that not all of them are liked by everyone. Some parts maybe, but not all of it. As for how often Raid releases will be, the developers said that Raid releases will be more consistent now, whatever that means, my personal opinion is that the next Raid should have multiple wings and multiple bosses and not be a tiny instance like Hall of Chains, that would justify any kind of delay. We can only wait and see and come back to this discussion when the next Raid comes. I always disliked the use of the word "majority" when it comes to playing content, I find it a very weak way to form an argument when using that word. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feanor.2358 Posted June 22, 2018 Share Posted June 22, 2018 > @"BadSanta.6527" said: > Honestly I hope no more raids , add fractals is much better and everyone can play not only the elites. If they add dungeons it is even better then raid People constantly complaining about Twilight Oasis prove you wrong. Oh, and in case you missed the memo, dungeons have been abandoned for years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BadSanta.6527 Posted June 22, 2018 Share Posted June 22, 2018 > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > @"BadSanta.6527" said: > > Honestly I hope no more raids , add fractals is much better and everyone can play not only the elites. If they add dungeons it is even better then raid > > People constantly complaining about Twilight Oasis prove you wrong. Oh, and in case you missed the memo, dungeons have been abandoned for years. I know dungeons have been abandonment for years , but what I was trying to say is that there are much much better content to invest over raids in my opinion. And I know a lot of people who think like that as well, it is just opinion so respect that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xantaria.8726 Posted June 22, 2018 Share Posted June 22, 2018 > @"maddoctor.2738" said: > > @"Tyson.5160" said: > > Again, Anet has the actual numbers, they are putting their resources into LW and expansion stuff. We honestly don’t know how many people complete what. Anet does and they are still designing it. What are you suggesting then, focus on raid content? > > I'm saying that much like Raids are called "niche" content, the same is true for major parts of the Living World episodes. So the argument "it's niche so it shouldn't get content updates" is at best weak, since the LW episodes are packed full with niche content themselves. Just like those -other- parts keep getting released, even though they aren't played by any kind of majority, Raids should also be released without any need for them to be played by this so called "majority". Just like all other parts of the LW do not need to be played by this "majority" either. The LW, and of course expansions, aren't one set of content that everyone likes, they are a collection of multiple little types of content, that not all of them are liked by everyone. Some parts maybe, but not all of it. > > As for how often Raid releases will be, the developers said that Raid releases will be more consistent now, whatever that means, my personal opinion is that the next Raid should have multiple wings and multiple bosses and not be a tiny instance like Hall of Chains, that would justify any kind of delay. We can only wait and see and come back to this discussion when the next Raid comes. > > I always disliked the use of the word "majority" when it comes to playing content, I find it a very weak way to form an argument when using that word. Just wanted to say i really like your point of view and the way you write your comments (no sarcasm). Your mostly trying to look neutral on the matter and not to get emotional. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feanor.2358 Posted June 22, 2018 Share Posted June 22, 2018 > @"BadSanta.6527" said: > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > @"BadSanta.6527" said: > > > Honestly I hope no more raids , add fractals is much better and everyone can play not only the elites. If they add dungeons it is even better then raid > > > > People constantly complaining about Twilight Oasis prove you wrong. Oh, and in case you missed the memo, dungeons have been abandoned for years. > > I know dungeons have been abandonment for years , but what I was trying to say is that there are much much better content to invest over raids in my opinion. And I know a lot of people who think like that as well, it is just opinion so respect that The thing is, the people who make actual decisions that cost actual money (and a lot of those by the way) clearly didn't think so and still don't. So I fail to see a reason to respect random claims on the basis of them being opinions. Can you provide any data, or any semblance of credibility to that opinion? No? Then sorry, I'd stick with the opinions of the people who have both. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrubySzymek.1362 Posted June 22, 2018 Share Posted June 22, 2018 > @"maddoctor.2738" said: > > @"Tyson.5160" said: > > Again, Anet has the actual numbers, they are putting their resources into LW and expansion stuff. We honestly don’t know how many people complete what. Anet does and they are still designing it. What are you suggesting then, focus on raid content? > > I'm saying that much like Raids are called "niche" content, the same is true for major parts of the Living World episodes. So the argument "it's niche so it shouldn't get content updates" is at best weak, since the LW episodes are packed full with niche content themselves. Just like those -other- parts keep getting released, even though they aren't played by any kind of majority, Raids should also be released without any need for them to be played by this so called "majority". Just like all other parts of the LW do not need to be played by this "majority" either. The LW, and of course expansions, aren't one set of content that everyone likes, they are a collection of multiple little types of content, that not all of them are liked by everyone. Some parts maybe, but not all of it. > > As for how often Raid releases will be, the developers said that Raid releases will be more consistent now, whatever that means, my personal opinion is that the next Raid should have multiple wings and multiple bosses and not be a tiny instance like Hall of Chains, that would justify any kind of delay. We can only wait and see and come back to this discussion when the next Raid comes. > > I always disliked the use of the word "majority" when it comes to playing content, I find it a very weak way to form an argument when using that word. I dare to make an assumption that compared to raiders, more players who complete LW do not care to use efficiency. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CptAurellian.9537 Posted June 22, 2018 Share Posted June 22, 2018 And why would raiders be particularly attracted to gw2efficiency? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feanor.2358 Posted June 22, 2018 Share Posted June 22, 2018 > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > @"maddoctor.2738" said: > > > @"Tyson.5160" said: > > > Again, Anet has the actual numbers, they are putting their resources into LW and expansion stuff. We honestly don’t know how many people complete what. Anet does and they are still designing it. What are you suggesting then, focus on raid content? > > > > I'm saying that much like Raids are called "niche" content, the same is true for major parts of the Living World episodes. So the argument "it's niche so it shouldn't get content updates" is at best weak, since the LW episodes are packed full with niche content themselves. Just like those -other- parts keep getting released, even though they aren't played by any kind of majority, Raids should also be released without any need for them to be played by this so called "majority". Just like all other parts of the LW do not need to be played by this "majority" either. The LW, and of course expansions, aren't one set of content that everyone likes, they are a collection of multiple little types of content, that not all of them are liked by everyone. Some parts maybe, but not all of it. > > > > As for how often Raid releases will be, the developers said that Raid releases will be more consistent now, whatever that means, my personal opinion is that the next Raid should have multiple wings and multiple bosses and not be a tiny instance like Hall of Chains, that would justify any kind of delay. We can only wait and see and come back to this discussion when the next Raid comes. > > > > I always disliked the use of the word "majority" when it comes to playing content, I find it a very weak way to form an argument when using that word. > > I dare to make an assumption that compared to raiders, more players who complete LW do not care to use efficiency. Even then, the difference won't be that great to warrant making a distinction what's niche and what isn't based on completion percentages. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrubySzymek.1362 Posted June 22, 2018 Share Posted June 22, 2018 > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > @"maddoctor.2738" said: > > > > @"Tyson.5160" said: > > > > Again, Anet has the actual numbers, they are putting their resources into LW and expansion stuff. We honestly don’t know how many people complete what. Anet does and they are still designing it. What are you suggesting then, focus on raid content? > > > > > > I'm saying that much like Raids are called "niche" content, the same is true for major parts of the Living World episodes. So the argument "it's niche so it shouldn't get content updates" is at best weak, since the LW episodes are packed full with niche content themselves. Just like those -other- parts keep getting released, even though they aren't played by any kind of majority, Raids should also be released without any need for them to be played by this so called "majority". Just like all other parts of the LW do not need to be played by this "majority" either. The LW, and of course expansions, aren't one set of content that everyone likes, they are a collection of multiple little types of content, that not all of them are liked by everyone. Some parts maybe, but not all of it. > > > > > > As for how often Raid releases will be, the developers said that Raid releases will be more consistent now, whatever that means, my personal opinion is that the next Raid should have multiple wings and multiple bosses and not be a tiny instance like Hall of Chains, that would justify any kind of delay. We can only wait and see and come back to this discussion when the next Raid comes. > > > > > > I always disliked the use of the word "majority" when it comes to playing content, I find it a very weak way to form an argument when using that word. > > > > I dare to make an assumption that compared to raiders, more players who complete LW do not care to use efficiency. > > Even then, the difference won't be that great to warrant making a distinction what's niche and what isn't based on completion percentages. Completion is the only goal for raids. Meanwhile for LW and open world stuff people do different things and very rarely chase achievements. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrubySzymek.1362 Posted June 22, 2018 Share Posted June 22, 2018 > @"CptAurellian.9537" said: > And why would raiders be particularly attracted to gw2efficiency? It's in the name of the site. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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