TheQuickFox.3826 Posted June 26, 2018 Share Posted June 26, 2018 None. Choice is good. More choice is better. Only build creativity can counter a meta and creativity requires diversity in available stat / skill / trait choices. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curunen.8729 Posted June 26, 2018 Share Posted June 26, 2018 None. TB/Dire is not as bad as made out to be - time to kill is slow providing you build for enough cleanse to counteract the condis. I'd sooner face let's say two dire/tb mirages than a power mirage + power thief. Better to rebalance condis so anyone who wants to do decent burst has to build in some power/pre/fer into their stats, so dire/tb become pure attrition only. For the record I don't like and never use TB/Dire because of lack of direct damage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stand The Wall.6987 Posted June 26, 2018 Author Share Posted June 26, 2018 I would totally go back and edit the poll to add a "none" option but the forums wont let me. Here is a post I put up on the subject (yes its a bug imo). https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/43886/forum-cant-edit-polls#latest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wanya.1697 Posted June 27, 2018 Share Posted June 27, 2018 where is the "all statcombinations with condi dmg" option ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arlette.9684 Posted June 27, 2018 Share Posted June 27, 2018 The poll is clearly biased towards Dire/Trailblazer and has even neatly tucked them both in under common denominator. Nice attempt at trolling. P.S. WvW is intended to be unrestricted PvP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddie.5861 Posted June 27, 2018 Share Posted June 27, 2018 ;))) good old days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GDchiaScrub.3241 Posted June 27, 2018 Share Posted June 27, 2018 Only sissies didn't vote all. Why would you not want to play naked? WvW community sometimes. SMH D: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stand The Wall.6987 Posted June 27, 2018 Author Share Posted June 27, 2018 > @"Arlette.9684" said: > The poll is clearly biased towards Dire/Trailblazer and has even neatly tucked them both in under common denominator. > > Nice attempt at trolling. > > P.S. WvW is intended to be unrestricted PvP. No, its not. There are many different choices. There is even berserker. Nice attempt at trying to be the victim though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arlette.9684 Posted June 28, 2018 Share Posted June 28, 2018 > @"Stand The Wall.6987" said: > > @"Arlette.9684" said: > > The poll is clearly biased towards Dire/Trailblazer and has even neatly tucked them both in under common denominator. > > > > Nice attempt at trolling. > > > > P.S. WvW is intended to be unrestricted PvP. > > No, its not. There are many different choices. There is even berserker. Nice attempt at trying to be the victim though. My comment still stands, want those gone, GO SPVP. Leave WvW to be exactly what it always has been, unrestricted pvp for everyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nativity.3057 Posted June 28, 2018 Share Posted June 28, 2018 > @"Curunen.8729" said: > None. > > TB/Dire is not as bad as made out to be - time to kill is slow providing you build for enough cleanse to counteract the condis. I'd sooner face let's say two dire/tb mirages than a power mirage + power thief. > > Better to rebalance condis so anyone who wants to do decent burst has to build in some power/pre/fer into their stats, so dire/tb become pure attrition only. > > For the record I don't like and never use TB/Dire because of lack of direct damage. TB/Dire is a problem because of condi scaling from only one stat while power needs 3 (2 if Radiance guard). Only Marauders gives power builds all 3 necessary stats + some tankiness via vitality, and even then vitality is the lowest boosted stat, while Dire doesn't suffer from 4 stat distribution and one of Trailblazer's main stats is toughness. TB/Dire stats are a bit problematic (dire was also stupidly strong on PU Mesmer back when it was core only). It's especially apparent when watching a duel where one player is using Dire/TB (ahem condi mirages). The fight boils down to the other player trying to spam condi cleanses, while the condi player can tank bursts and continue applying conditions. > @"Arlette.9684" said: > > @"Stand The Wall.6987" said: > > > @"Arlette.9684" said: > > > The poll is clearly biased towards Dire/Trailblazer and has even neatly tucked them both in under common denominator. > > > > > > Nice attempt at trolling. > > > > > > P.S. WvW is intended to be unrestricted PvP. > > > > No, its not. There are many different choices. There is even berserker. Nice attempt at trying to be the victim though. > > My comment still stands, want those gone, GO SPVP. Leave WvW to be exactly what it always has been, unrestricted pvp for everyone. "unrestricted PvP" while playing a class that abuses current boon meta (chronomancer) or elite that utilizes dire/trailblazer best (condi mirage). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arlette.9684 Posted June 28, 2018 Share Posted June 28, 2018 > @"nativity.3057" said: > > @"Curunen.8729" said: > > None. > > > > TB/Dire is not as bad as made out to be - time to kill is slow providing you build for enough cleanse to counteract the condis. I'd sooner face let's say two dire/tb mirages than a power mirage + power thief. > > > > Better to rebalance condis so anyone who wants to do decent burst has to build in some power/pre/fer into their stats, so dire/tb become pure attrition only. > > > > For the record I don't like and never use TB/Dire because of lack of direct damage. > > TB/Dire is a problem because of condi scaling from only one stat while power needs 3 (2 if Radiance guard). Only Marauders gives power builds all 3 necessary stats + some tankiness via vitality, and even then vitality is the lowest boosted stat, while Dire doesn't suffer from 4 stat distribution and one of Trailblazer's main stats is toughness. > > TB/Dire stats are a bit problematic (dire was also stupidly strong on PU Mesmer back when it was core only). It's especially apparent when watching a duel where one player is using Dire/TB (ahem condi mirages). The fight boils down to the other player trying to spam condi cleanses, while the condi player can tank bursts and continue applying conditions. > > > @"Arlette.9684" said: > > > @"Stand The Wall.6987" said: > > > > @"Arlette.9684" said: > > > > The poll is clearly biased towards Dire/Trailblazer and has even neatly tucked them both in under common denominator. > > > > > > > > Nice attempt at trolling. > > > > > > > > P.S. WvW is intended to be unrestricted PvP. > > > > > > No, its not. There are many different choices. There is even berserker. Nice attempt at trying to be the victim though. > > > > My comment still stands, want those gone, GO SPVP. Leave WvW to be exactly what it always has been, unrestricted pvp for everyone. > > "unrestricted PvP" while playing a class that abuses current boon meta (chronomancer) or elite that utilizes dire/trailblazer best (condi mirage). > > @"nativity.3057" said: > > @"Curunen.8729" said: > > None. > > > > TB/Dire is not as bad as made out to be - time to kill is slow providing you build for enough cleanse to counteract the condis. I'd sooner face let's say two dire/tb mirages than a power mirage + power thief. > > > > Better to rebalance condis so anyone who wants to do decent burst has to build in some power/pre/fer into their stats, so dire/tb become pure attrition only. > > > > For the record I don't like and never use TB/Dire because of lack of direct damage. > > TB/Dire is a problem because of condi scaling from only one stat while power needs 3 (2 if Radiance guard). Only Marauders gives power builds all 3 necessary stats + some tankiness via vitality, and even then vitality is the lowest boosted stat, while Dire doesn't suffer from 4 stat distribution and one of Trailblazer's main stats is toughness. > > TB/Dire stats are a bit problematic (dire was also stupidly strong on PU Mesmer back when it was core only). It's especially apparent when watching a duel where one player is using Dire/TB (ahem condi mirages). The fight boils down to the other player trying to spam condi cleanses, while the condi player can tank bursts and continue applying conditions. > > > @"Arlette.9684" said: > > > @"Stand The Wall.6987" said: > > > > @"Arlette.9684" said: > > > > The poll is clearly biased towards Dire/Trailblazer and has even neatly tucked them both in under common denominator. > > > > > > > > Nice attempt at trolling. > > > > > > > > P.S. WvW is intended to be unrestricted PvP. > > > > > > No, its not. There are many different choices. There is even berserker. Nice attempt at trying to be the victim though. > > > > My comment still stands, want those gone, GO SPVP. Leave WvW to be exactly what it always has been, unrestricted pvp for everyone. > > "unrestricted PvP" while playing a class that abuses current boon meta (chronomancer) or elite that utilizes dire/trailblazer best (condi mirage). > I’m sorry to burst your bubble, but most of the mesmers I know would be happy to trade their Tb/dire gear for Viper/Wizard. Not because it buffs us, but it makes Scurred less viable and us more viable. Taking away dire/TB stats nerfs mes couterplay and if you are think otherwise you should play against my mes in SPvP. P.S. I’ve had more than a few, will edit tomorrow for fluidity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nuka Cola.8520 Posted June 28, 2018 Share Posted June 28, 2018 Its not a stat that should be removed, but ascended gear needs to be lowered to exotic level and they have to remove food from wvw. People cry about mirage having perma dodges, but that's because of +40% endurance regen and double unnerfed sigil of energy. Remove food, power creep is enough as is. Normalize ascended gear to the exotic stats and wvw will be better for everyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stand The Wall.6987 Posted June 28, 2018 Author Share Posted June 28, 2018 > @"Arlette.9684" said: > > @"Stand The Wall.6987" said: > > > @"Arlette.9684" said: > > > The poll is clearly biased towards Dire/Trailblazer and has even neatly tucked them both in under common denominator. > > > > > > Nice attempt at trolling. > > > > > > P.S. WvW is intended to be unrestricted PvP. > > > > No, its not. There are many different choices. There is even berserker. Nice attempt at trying to be the victim though. > > My comment still stands, want those gone, GO SPVP. Leave WvW to be exactly what it always has been, unrestricted pvp for everyone. Ok man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gwaihir.1745 Posted June 28, 2018 Share Posted June 28, 2018 You wont see any stat combos leaving wvw. And given that the sub majority currently is other the poll is pretty much useless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheWolf.1602 Posted June 28, 2018 Share Posted June 28, 2018 Don't remove any stats, just add the missing stats from PvP to PvE/WvW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nativity.3057 Posted June 28, 2018 Share Posted June 28, 2018 > @"Arlette.9684" said: > > @"nativity.3057" said: > > > @"Curunen.8729" said: > > > None. > > > > > > TB/Dire is not as bad as made out to be - time to kill is slow providing you build for enough cleanse to counteract the condis. I'd sooner face let's say two dire/tb mirages than a power mirage + power thief. > > > > > > Better to rebalance condis so anyone who wants to do decent burst has to build in some power/pre/fer into their stats, so dire/tb become pure attrition only. > > > > > > For the record I don't like and never use TB/Dire because of lack of direct damage. > > > > TB/Dire is a problem because of condi scaling from only one stat while power needs 3 (2 if Radiance guard). Only Marauders gives power builds all 3 necessary stats + some tankiness via vitality, and even then vitality is the lowest boosted stat, while Dire doesn't suffer from 4 stat distribution and one of Trailblazer's main stats is toughness. > > > > TB/Dire stats are a bit problematic (dire was also stupidly strong on PU Mesmer back when it was core only). It's especially apparent when watching a duel where one player is using Dire/TB (ahem condi mirages). The fight boils down to the other player trying to spam condi cleanses, while the condi player can tank bursts and continue applying conditions. > > > > > @"Arlette.9684" said: > > > > @"Stand The Wall.6987" said: > > > > > @"Arlette.9684" said: > > > > > The poll is clearly biased towards Dire/Trailblazer and has even neatly tucked them both in under common denominator. > > > > > > > > > > Nice attempt at trolling. > > > > > > > > > > P.S. WvW is intended to be unrestricted PvP. > > > > > > > > No, its not. There are many different choices. There is even berserker. Nice attempt at trying to be the victim though. > > > > > > My comment still stands, want those gone, GO SPVP. Leave WvW to be exactly what it always has been, unrestricted pvp for everyone. > > > > "unrestricted PvP" while playing a class that abuses current boon meta (chronomancer) or elite that utilizes dire/trailblazer best (condi mirage). > > > > > @"nativity.3057" said: > > > @"Curunen.8729" said: > > > None. > > > > > > TB/Dire is not as bad as made out to be - time to kill is slow providing you build for enough cleanse to counteract the condis. I'd sooner face let's say two dire/tb mirages than a power mirage + power thief. > > > > > > Better to rebalance condis so anyone who wants to do decent burst has to build in some power/pre/fer into their stats, so dire/tb become pure attrition only. > > > > > > For the record I don't like and never use TB/Dire because of lack of direct damage. > > > > TB/Dire is a problem because of condi scaling from only one stat while power needs 3 (2 if Radiance guard). Only Marauders gives power builds all 3 necessary stats + some tankiness via vitality, and even then vitality is the lowest boosted stat, while Dire doesn't suffer from 4 stat distribution and one of Trailblazer's main stats is toughness. > > > > TB/Dire stats are a bit problematic (dire was also stupidly strong on PU Mesmer back when it was core only). It's especially apparent when watching a duel where one player is using Dire/TB (ahem condi mirages). The fight boils down to the other player trying to spam condi cleanses, while the condi player can tank bursts and continue applying conditions. > > > > > @"Arlette.9684" said: > > > > @"Stand The Wall.6987" said: > > > > > @"Arlette.9684" said: > > > > > The poll is clearly biased towards Dire/Trailblazer and has even neatly tucked them both in under common denominator. > > > > > > > > > > Nice attempt at trolling. > > > > > > > > > > P.S. WvW is intended to be unrestricted PvP. > > > > > > > > No, its not. There are many different choices. There is even berserker. Nice attempt at trying to be the victim though. > > > > > > My comment still stands, want those gone, GO SPVP. Leave WvW to be exactly what it always has been, unrestricted pvp for everyone. > > > > "unrestricted PvP" while playing a class that abuses current boon meta (chronomancer) or elite that utilizes dire/trailblazer best (condi mirage). > > > > I’m sorry to burst your bubble, but most of the mesmers I know would be happy to trade their Tb/dire gear for Viper/Wizard. Not because it buffs us, but it makes Scurred less viable and us more viable. Taking away dire/TB stats nerfs mes couterplay and if you are think otherwise you should play against my mes in SPvP. > > P.S. I’ve had more than a few, will edit tomorrow for fluidity. sPvP in a WvW thread? There's no Dire/TB in sPvP. Also Wizard stats? Mesmer counter is cleave or AoE bursts, aka guardian, which happens to be my main. I don't have any trouble with power mesmers, so no learn to play issue. Dire/TB mirages are the current worst offenders of abusing the stat distribution. It's definitely a Mirage issue since other Dire/TB builds aren't as oppressive, but even those builds are just not fun to fight against. Having toughness is a direct counter to power builds, just from the start. Any power build fighting a Dire/TB build has an uphill battle from start to finish. That kind of gameplay is not okay. Condition as a damage source is fine, but condition damage needs to scale from more than 1 stat. The idea of conditions hasn't changed since the core game ("be tanky and do damage overtime"), but after two expansions and power creep, that concept has to change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arlette.9684 Posted June 28, 2018 Share Posted June 28, 2018 > @"nativity.3057" said: > > @"Arlette.9684" said: > > > @"nativity.3057" said: > > > > @"Curunen.8729" said: > > > > None. > > > > > > > > TB/Dire is not as bad as made out to be - time to kill is slow providing you build for enough cleanse to counteract the condis. I'd sooner face let's say two dire/tb mirages than a power mirage + power thief. > > > > > > > > Better to rebalance condis so anyone who wants to do decent burst has to build in some power/pre/fer into their stats, so dire/tb become pure attrition only. > > > > > > > > For the record I don't like and never use TB/Dire because of lack of direct damage. > > > > > > TB/Dire is a problem because of condi scaling from only one stat while power needs 3 (2 if Radiance guard). Only Marauders gives power builds all 3 necessary stats + some tankiness via vitality, and even then vitality is the lowest boosted stat, while Dire doesn't suffer from 4 stat distribution and one of Trailblazer's main stats is toughness. > > > > > > TB/Dire stats are a bit problematic (dire was also stupidly strong on PU Mesmer back when it was core only). It's especially apparent when watching a duel where one player is using Dire/TB (ahem condi mirages). The fight boils down to the other player trying to spam condi cleanses, while the condi player can tank bursts and continue applying conditions. > > > > > > > @"Arlette.9684" said: > > > > > @"Stand The Wall.6987" said: > > > > > > @"Arlette.9684" said: > > > > > > The poll is clearly biased towards Dire/Trailblazer and has even neatly tucked them both in under common denominator. > > > > > > > > > > > > Nice attempt at trolling. > > > > > > > > > > > > P.S. WvW is intended to be unrestricted PvP. > > > > > > > > > > No, its not. There are many different choices. There is even berserker. Nice attempt at trying to be the victim though. > > > > > > > > My comment still stands, want those gone, GO SPVP. Leave WvW to be exactly what it always has been, unrestricted pvp for everyone. > > > > > > "unrestricted PvP" while playing a class that abuses current boon meta (chronomancer) or elite that utilizes dire/trailblazer best (condi mirage). > > > > > > > > @"nativity.3057" said: > > > > @"Curunen.8729" said: > > > > None. > > > > > > > > TB/Dire is not as bad as made out to be - time to kill is slow providing you build for enough cleanse to counteract the condis. I'd sooner face let's say two dire/tb mirages than a power mirage + power thief. > > > > > > > > Better to rebalance condis so anyone who wants to do decent burst has to build in some power/pre/fer into their stats, so dire/tb become pure attrition only. > > > > > > > > For the record I don't like and never use TB/Dire because of lack of direct damage. > > > > > > TB/Dire is a problem because of condi scaling from only one stat while power needs 3 (2 if Radiance guard). Only Marauders gives power builds all 3 necessary stats + some tankiness via vitality, and even then vitality is the lowest boosted stat, while Dire doesn't suffer from 4 stat distribution and one of Trailblazer's main stats is toughness. > > > > > > TB/Dire stats are a bit problematic (dire was also stupidly strong on PU Mesmer back when it was core only). It's especially apparent when watching a duel where one player is using Dire/TB (ahem condi mirages). The fight boils down to the other player trying to spam condi cleanses, while the condi player can tank bursts and continue applying conditions. > > > > > > > @"Arlette.9684" said: > > > > > @"Stand The Wall.6987" said: > > > > > > @"Arlette.9684" said: > > > > > > The poll is clearly biased towards Dire/Trailblazer and has even neatly tucked them both in under common denominator. > > > > > > > > > > > > Nice attempt at trolling. > > > > > > > > > > > > P.S. WvW is intended to be unrestricted PvP. > > > > > > > > > > No, its not. There are many different choices. There is even berserker. Nice attempt at trying to be the victim though. > > > > > > > > My comment still stands, want those gone, GO SPVP. Leave WvW to be exactly what it always has been, unrestricted pvp for everyone. > > > > > > "unrestricted PvP" while playing a class that abuses current boon meta (chronomancer) or elite that utilizes dire/trailblazer best (condi mirage). > > > > > > > I’m sorry to burst your bubble, but most of the mesmers I know would be happy to trade their Tb/dire gear for Viper/Wizard. Not because it buffs us, but it makes Scurred less viable and us more viable. Taking away dire/TB stats nerfs mes couterplay and if you are think otherwise you should play against my mes in SPvP. > > > > P.S. I’ve had more than a few, will edit tomorrow for fluidity. > > sPvP in a WvW thread? There's no Dire/TB in sPvP. Also Wizard stats? > > Mesmer counter is cleave or AoE bursts, aka guardian, which happens to be my main. I don't have any trouble with power mesmers, so no learn to play issue. > Dire/TB mirages are the current worst offenders of abusing the stat distribution. It's definitely a Mirage issue since other Dire/TB builds aren't as oppressive, but even those builds are just not fun to fight against. Having toughness is a direct counter to power builds, just from the start. Any power build fighting a Dire/TB build has an uphill battle from start to finish. That kind of gameplay is not okay. Condition as a damage source is fine, but condition damage needs to scale from more than 1 stat. > The idea of conditions hasn't changed since the core game ("be tanky and do damage overtime"), but after two expansions and power creep, that concept has to change. Take it from a player that plays both roaming t1 and plat pvp. I feel much stronger rolling wizard amulet than trailblazer mesmer. Trailblazer Mesmer is extremely susceptible to condi. Scourge and above all Condi thief wrck the kitten out it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nativity.3057 Posted June 28, 2018 Share Posted June 28, 2018 > @"Arlette.9684" said: > > @"nativity.3057" said: > > > @"Arlette.9684" said: > > > > @"nativity.3057" said: > > > > > @"Curunen.8729" said: > > > > > None. > > > > > > > > > > TB/Dire is not as bad as made out to be - time to kill is slow providing you build for enough cleanse to counteract the condis. I'd sooner face let's say two dire/tb mirages than a power mirage + power thief. > > > > > > > > > > Better to rebalance condis so anyone who wants to do decent burst has to build in some power/pre/fer into their stats, so dire/tb become pure attrition only. > > > > > > > > > > For the record I don't like and never use TB/Dire because of lack of direct damage. > > > > > > > > TB/Dire is a problem because of condi scaling from only one stat while power needs 3 (2 if Radiance guard). Only Marauders gives power builds all 3 necessary stats + some tankiness via vitality, and even then vitality is the lowest boosted stat, while Dire doesn't suffer from 4 stat distribution and one of Trailblazer's main stats is toughness. > > > > > > > > TB/Dire stats are a bit problematic (dire was also stupidly strong on PU Mesmer back when it was core only). It's especially apparent when watching a duel where one player is using Dire/TB (ahem condi mirages). The fight boils down to the other player trying to spam condi cleanses, while the condi player can tank bursts and continue applying conditions. > > > > > > > > > @"Arlette.9684" said: > > > > > > @"Stand The Wall.6987" said: > > > > > > > @"Arlette.9684" said: > > > > > > > The poll is clearly biased towards Dire/Trailblazer and has even neatly tucked them both in under common denominator. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nice attempt at trolling. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > P.S. WvW is intended to be unrestricted PvP. > > > > > > > > > > > > No, its not. There are many different choices. There is even berserker. Nice attempt at trying to be the victim though. > > > > > > > > > > My comment still stands, want those gone, GO SPVP. Leave WvW to be exactly what it always has been, unrestricted pvp for everyone. > > > > > > > > "unrestricted PvP" while playing a class that abuses current boon meta (chronomancer) or elite that utilizes dire/trailblazer best (condi mirage). > > > > > > > > > > > @"nativity.3057" said: > > > > > @"Curunen.8729" said: > > > > > None. > > > > > > > > > > TB/Dire is not as bad as made out to be - time to kill is slow providing you build for enough cleanse to counteract the condis. I'd sooner face let's say two dire/tb mirages than a power mirage + power thief. > > > > > > > > > > Better to rebalance condis so anyone who wants to do decent burst has to build in some power/pre/fer into their stats, so dire/tb become pure attrition only. > > > > > > > > > > For the record I don't like and never use TB/Dire because of lack of direct damage. > > > > > > > > TB/Dire is a problem because of condi scaling from only one stat while power needs 3 (2 if Radiance guard). Only Marauders gives power builds all 3 necessary stats + some tankiness via vitality, and even then vitality is the lowest boosted stat, while Dire doesn't suffer from 4 stat distribution and one of Trailblazer's main stats is toughness. > > > > > > > > TB/Dire stats are a bit problematic (dire was also stupidly strong on PU Mesmer back when it was core only). It's especially apparent when watching a duel where one player is using Dire/TB (ahem condi mirages). The fight boils down to the other player trying to spam condi cleanses, while the condi player can tank bursts and continue applying conditions. > > > > > > > > > @"Arlette.9684" said: > > > > > > @"Stand The Wall.6987" said: > > > > > > > @"Arlette.9684" said: > > > > > > > The poll is clearly biased towards Dire/Trailblazer and has even neatly tucked them both in under common denominator. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nice attempt at trolling. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > P.S. WvW is intended to be unrestricted PvP. > > > > > > > > > > > > No, its not. There are many different choices. There is even berserker. Nice attempt at trying to be the victim though. > > > > > > > > > > My comment still stands, want those gone, GO SPVP. Leave WvW to be exactly what it always has been, unrestricted pvp for everyone. > > > > > > > > "unrestricted PvP" while playing a class that abuses current boon meta (chronomancer) or elite that utilizes dire/trailblazer best (condi mirage). > > > > > > > > > > I’m sorry to burst your bubble, but most of the mesmers I know would be happy to trade their Tb/dire gear for Viper/Wizard. Not because it buffs us, but it makes Scurred less viable and us more viable. Taking away dire/TB stats nerfs mes couterplay and if you are think otherwise you should play against my mes in SPvP. > > > > > > P.S. I’ve had more than a few, will edit tomorrow for fluidity. > > > > sPvP in a WvW thread? There's no Dire/TB in sPvP. Also Wizard stats? > > > > Mesmer counter is cleave or AoE bursts, aka guardian, which happens to be my main. I don't have any trouble with power mesmers, so no learn to play issue. > > Dire/TB mirages are the current worst offenders of abusing the stat distribution. It's definitely a Mirage issue since other Dire/TB builds aren't as oppressive, but even those builds are just not fun to fight against. Having toughness is a direct counter to power builds, just from the start. Any power build fighting a Dire/TB build has an uphill battle from start to finish. That kind of gameplay is not okay. Condition as a damage source is fine, but condition damage needs to scale from more than 1 stat. > > The idea of conditions hasn't changed since the core game ("be tanky and do damage overtime"), but after two expansions and power creep, that concept has to change. > > Take it from a player that plays both roaming t1 and plat pvp. I feel much stronger rolling wizard amulet than trailblazer mesmer. > > Trailblazer Mesmer is extremely susceptible to condi. Scourge and above all Condi thief wrck the kitten out it. Of course you feel stronger using PvP amulets. Some PvP stat distributions/runes aren't available in WvW. Hybrid Mirage is old news; very strong nonetheless. Why are we still talking about PvP in a WvW thread? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arlette.9684 Posted June 28, 2018 Share Posted June 28, 2018 > @"nativity.3057" said: > > @"Arlette.9684" said: > > > @"nativity.3057" said: > > > > @"Arlette.9684" said: > > > > > @"nativity.3057" said: > > > > > > @"Curunen.8729" said: > > > > > > None. > > > > > > > > > > > > TB/Dire is not as bad as made out to be - time to kill is slow providing you build for enough cleanse to counteract the condis. I'd sooner face let's say two dire/tb mirages than a power mirage + power thief. > > > > > > > > > > > > Better to rebalance condis so anyone who wants to do decent burst has to build in some power/pre/fer into their stats, so dire/tb become pure attrition only. > > > > > > > > > > > > For the record I don't like and never use TB/Dire because of lack of direct damage. > > > > > > > > > > TB/Dire is a problem because of condi scaling from only one stat while power needs 3 (2 if Radiance guard). Only Marauders gives power builds all 3 necessary stats + some tankiness via vitality, and even then vitality is the lowest boosted stat, while Dire doesn't suffer from 4 stat distribution and one of Trailblazer's main stats is toughness. > > > > > > > > > > TB/Dire stats are a bit problematic (dire was also stupidly strong on PU Mesmer back when it was core only). It's especially apparent when watching a duel where one player is using Dire/TB (ahem condi mirages). The fight boils down to the other player trying to spam condi cleanses, while the condi player can tank bursts and continue applying conditions. > > > > > > > > > > > @"Arlette.9684" said: > > > > > > > @"Stand The Wall.6987" said: > > > > > > > > @"Arlette.9684" said: > > > > > > > > The poll is clearly biased towards Dire/Trailblazer and has even neatly tucked them both in under common denominator. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nice attempt at trolling. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > P.S. WvW is intended to be unrestricted PvP. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No, its not. There are many different choices. There is even berserker. Nice attempt at trying to be the victim though. > > > > > > > > > > > > My comment still stands, want those gone, GO SPVP. Leave WvW to be exactly what it always has been, unrestricted pvp for everyone. > > > > > > > > > > "unrestricted PvP" while playing a class that abuses current boon meta (chronomancer) or elite that utilizes dire/trailblazer best (condi mirage). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"nativity.3057" said: > > > > > > @"Curunen.8729" said: > > > > > > None. > > > > > > > > > > > > TB/Dire is not as bad as made out to be - time to kill is slow providing you build for enough cleanse to counteract the condis. I'd sooner face let's say two dire/tb mirages than a power mirage + power thief. > > > > > > > > > > > > Better to rebalance condis so anyone who wants to do decent burst has to build in some power/pre/fer into their stats, so dire/tb become pure attrition only. > > > > > > > > > > > > For the record I don't like and never use TB/Dire because of lack of direct damage. > > > > > > > > > > TB/Dire is a problem because of condi scaling from only one stat while power needs 3 (2 if Radiance guard). Only Marauders gives power builds all 3 necessary stats + some tankiness via vitality, and even then vitality is the lowest boosted stat, while Dire doesn't suffer from 4 stat distribution and one of Trailblazer's main stats is toughness. > > > > > > > > > > TB/Dire stats are a bit problematic (dire was also stupidly strong on PU Mesmer back when it was core only). It's especially apparent when watching a duel where one player is using Dire/TB (ahem condi mirages). The fight boils down to the other player trying to spam condi cleanses, while the condi player can tank bursts and continue applying conditions. > > > > > > > > > > > @"Arlette.9684" said: > > > > > > > @"Stand The Wall.6987" said: > > > > > > > > @"Arlette.9684" said: > > > > > > > > The poll is clearly biased towards Dire/Trailblazer and has even neatly tucked them both in under common denominator. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nice attempt at trolling. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > P.S. WvW is intended to be unrestricted PvP. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No, its not. There are many different choices. There is even berserker. Nice attempt at trying to be the victim though. > > > > > > > > > > > > My comment still stands, want those gone, GO SPVP. Leave WvW to be exactly what it always has been, unrestricted pvp for everyone. > > > > > > > > > > "unrestricted PvP" while playing a class that abuses current boon meta (chronomancer) or elite that utilizes dire/trailblazer best (condi mirage). > > > > > > > > > > > > > I’m sorry to burst your bubble, but most of the mesmers I know would be happy to trade their Tb/dire gear for Viper/Wizard. Not because it buffs us, but it makes Scurred less viable and us more viable. Taking away dire/TB stats nerfs mes couterplay and if you are think otherwise you should play against my mes in SPvP. > > > > > > > > P.S. I’ve had more than a few, will edit tomorrow for fluidity. > > > > > > sPvP in a WvW thread? There's no Dire/TB in sPvP. Also Wizard stats? > > > > > > Mesmer counter is cleave or AoE bursts, aka guardian, which happens to be my main. I don't have any trouble with power mesmers, so no learn to play issue. > > > Dire/TB mirages are the current worst offenders of abusing the stat distribution. It's definitely a Mirage issue since other Dire/TB builds aren't as oppressive, but even those builds are just not fun to fight against. Having toughness is a direct counter to power builds, just from the start. Any power build fighting a Dire/TB build has an uphill battle from start to finish. That kind of gameplay is not okay. Condition as a damage source is fine, but condition damage needs to scale from more than 1 stat. > > > The idea of conditions hasn't changed since the core game ("be tanky and do damage overtime"), but after two expansions and power creep, that concept has to change. > > > > Take it from a player that plays both roaming t1 and plat pvp. I feel much stronger rolling wizard amulet than trailblazer mesmer. > > > > Trailblazer Mesmer is extremely susceptible to condi. Scourge and above all Condi thief wrck the kitten out it. > > Of course you feel stronger using PvP amulets. Some PvP stat distributions/runes aren't available in WvW. Hybrid Mirage is old news; very strong nonetheless. > Why are we still talking about PvP in a WvW thread? > I’m not talking about PvP, I was just drawing a parallel between the two, since the OP wants to limit stat combos to PvP ones. Hybrid Mirage is not old news, it’s Mirage the way ANet intended the class to be played. If you say “profession” instead of class, I’ll smack you. :smiley: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sanity Obscure.6054 Posted June 28, 2018 Share Posted June 28, 2018 Nothing should be removed.. Either they are all allowed or nothing is Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Draeyon.4392 Posted June 28, 2018 Share Posted June 28, 2018 Please add Seeker's stats to PvE/WvW (Power/Precision/Ferocity/Concentration). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Etheri.5406 Posted June 28, 2018 Share Posted June 28, 2018 > @"Arlette.9684" said: > The poll is clearly biased towards Dire/Trailblazer and has even neatly tucked them both in under common denominator. > > Nice attempt at trolling. > > P.S. WvW is intended to be unrestricted PvP. Unrestricted pvp doesn't mean balance proposals are moot. And stat combos definitely have an effect on balancing; as seen for PvP where these combos were found to be unbalanced. Just like various other aspects, some of which were taken over for WvW and some of which weren't. You stated NOTHING about the advantages or disadvantages on gameplay for removing these stats other than "i don't want them gone". People saying condi has less burst than power if you cleanse enough... no shit? A power mirage that makes a misstep dies. A power mirage has a far longer cooldown on its bursts, and very limited personal heals and cleanse. A condi mirage does the exact same yet it barely takes power damage - it can literally tank several bursts from the power mirage. It has vastly more constant pressure, defensives and cleanse. If you're capable of dodging; condi mirage is far more difficult to deal with than power. As is obvious from... pvp? wvw? Anyone who isn't exceptionally bad or roaming on reaper? The damage difference between viper and trailblazer is insanely low and not worth the tradeoff considering the defensive stats you gain on TB. "Nerfs scourge more" Sorry but if scourge is beating you in either roaming or PvP without support on mirage then you deserve every single bit of that death. And hmh; it's almost like minstrel firebrand with huge cleanse and trailblazer scourge with good condi application, both taking heavily reduced condi and power damage is pretty damn strong. Imagine how PvP would be with firebrands on minstrel rather than menders. Even magi was too broken to deal with, lul. If you're truly in favor of "unrestricted" stats then let us freely distribute stats. Power is missing quite a few combos, and double defensive / double support (or double condi) stats are considerably stronger than power counterparts. Especially since there are no alternatives. At least then you'll see how BROKEN this idea is; but that'd be unrestricted. Currently we're playing with limited / restricted stats which are favoring certain unhealthy builds. It's not more "freedom" if it helps enable an unhealthy meta which is oppresive to build variety. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arlette.9684 Posted June 28, 2018 Share Posted June 28, 2018 > @"Etheri.5406" said: > > @"Arlette.9684" said: > > The poll is clearly biased towards Dire/Trailblazer and has even neatly tucked them both in under common denominator. > > > > Nice attempt at trolling. > > > > P.S. WvW is intended to be unrestricted PvP. > > Unrestricted pvp doesn't mean balance proposals are moot. And stat combos definitely have an effect on balancing; as seen for PvP where these combos were found to be unbalanced. Just like various other aspects, some of which were taken over for WvW and some of which weren't. > > You stated NOTHING about the advantages or disadvantages on gameplay for removing these stats other than "i don't want them gone". > > People saying condi has less burst than power if you cleanse enough... no kitten? A power mirage that makes a misstep dies. A power mirage has a far longer cooldown on its bursts, and very limited personal heals and cleanse. A condi mirage does the exact same yet it barely takes power damage - it can literally tank several bursts from the power mirage. It has vastly more constant pressure, defensives and cleanse. > > If you're capable of dodging; condi mirage is far more difficult to deal with than power. As is obvious from... pvp? wvw? Anyone who isn't exceptionally bad or roaming on reaper? > > The damage difference between viper and trailblazer is insanely low and not worth the tradeoff considering the defensive stats you gain on TB. > > "Nerfs scourge more" Sorry but if scourge is beating you in either roaming or PvP without support on mirage then you deserve every single bit of that death. And hmh; it's almost like minstrel firebrand with huge cleanse and trailblazer scourge with good condi application, both taking heavily reduced condi and power damage is pretty kitten strong. Imagine how PvP would be with firebrands on minstrel rather than menders. Even magi was too broken to deal with, lul. > > If you're truly in favor of "unrestricted" stats then let us freely distribute stats. Power is missing quite a few combos, and double defensive / double support (or double condi) stats are considerably stronger than power counterparts. Especially since there are no alternatives. At least then you'll see how BROKEN this idea is; but that'd be unrestricted. > > Currently we're playing with limited / restricted stats which are favoring certain unhealthy builds. It's not more "freedom" if it helps enable an unhealthy meta which is oppresive to build variety. > I’m sorry what part of unrestricted PvP was unclear? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyper Cutter.9376 Posted June 28, 2018 Share Posted June 28, 2018 > @"nativity.3057" said: > The idea of conditions hasn't changed since the core game ("be tanky and do damage overtime"), but after two expansions and power creep, that concept has to change. That's not "the idea of conditions". The undisputed king of condition-based stat combinations is Viper's, which has no defensive stats at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Etheri.5406 Posted June 28, 2018 Share Posted June 28, 2018 > @"Arlette.9684" said: > > @"Etheri.5406" said: > > > @"Arlette.9684" said: > > > The poll is clearly biased towards Dire/Trailblazer and has even neatly tucked them both in under common denominator. > > > > > > Nice attempt at trolling. > > > > > > P.S. WvW is intended to be unrestricted PvP. > > > > Unrestricted pvp doesn't mean balance proposals are moot. And stat combos definitely have an effect on balancing; as seen for PvP where these combos were found to be unbalanced. Just like various other aspects, some of which were taken over for WvW and some of which weren't. > > > > You stated NOTHING about the advantages or disadvantages on gameplay for removing these stats other than "i don't want them gone". > > > > People saying condi has less burst than power if you cleanse enough... no kitten? A power mirage that makes a misstep dies. A power mirage has a far longer cooldown on its bursts, and very limited personal heals and cleanse. A condi mirage does the exact same yet it barely takes power damage - it can literally tank several bursts from the power mirage. It has vastly more constant pressure, defensives and cleanse. > > > > If you're capable of dodging; condi mirage is far more difficult to deal with than power. As is obvious from... pvp? wvw? Anyone who isn't exceptionally bad or roaming on reaper? > > > > The damage difference between viper and trailblazer is insanely low and not worth the tradeoff considering the defensive stats you gain on TB. > > > > "Nerfs scourge more" Sorry but if scourge is beating you in either roaming or PvP without support on mirage then you deserve every single bit of that death. And hmh; it's almost like minstrel firebrand with huge cleanse and trailblazer scourge with good condi application, both taking heavily reduced condi and power damage is pretty kitten strong. Imagine how PvP would be with firebrands on minstrel rather than menders. Even magi was too broken to deal with, lul. > > > > If you're truly in favor of "unrestricted" stats then let us freely distribute stats. Power is missing quite a few combos, and double defensive / double support (or double condi) stats are considerably stronger than power counterparts. Especially since there are no alternatives. At least then you'll see how BROKEN this idea is; but that'd be unrestricted. > > > > Currently we're playing with limited / restricted stats which are favoring certain unhealthy builds. It's not more "freedom" if it helps enable an unhealthy meta which is oppresive to build variety. > > > > I’m sorry what part of unrestricted PvP was unclear? You don't have unrestricted PvP in either PvP or WvW. Unrestricted means any stat combos are accessible; you can freely distribute stats as you wish. This is not possible even in WvW. Current system is STILL RESTRICTED. It's just biased as some combos exist and others do not. There are literally stat combos in PvP which don't exist in WvW AND vice versa - yet here you are saying one is unrestricted and one is not. What is unclear... hmh? The entire concept of "unrestricted", clearly. "Seeker and wizard are restricted PvP, trailblazer and minstrel are unrestricted pvp". Yeah I understand competely now! One is clearly restrictive and the other is not? Oh wait no it's just available choices depending on balance. " Yeah but you can mix and match stats in WvW so not restrictive!" yeah we're not talking about that, are we? We're talking about removing certain options for the sake of balance. And you can still mix defensive condi stats to make somethign trailblazer like, but you'll lose effective stats thus making defensive condi builds less effective. Considering they're oppresive at large scale and small scale roaming, I find that an acceptable idea. Same goes for supports, who don't have better alternatives than minstrel in almost all cases. Which stats should be removed? TB, minstrel. And as far as i'm concerned, energy sigil, concentration sigil, durability runes, also need to go. For starters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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