Zaraki.5784 Posted July 8, 2018 Share Posted July 8, 2018 It makes me feel...strange and it feels disturbing, binding a living being to a machine feels extremely unethical for a "good guy", even in a videogame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vavume.8065 Posted July 8, 2018 Share Posted July 8, 2018 Fusing man and machine is an old concept, the six million dollar Bionic man never complained about it, in fact I think most kids at the time wanted to grow up to be the Bionic man, I know I did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrizzFreston.5290 Posted July 8, 2018 Share Posted July 8, 2018 That's the Inquest for you, the source of some of the most unethical research and experiments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReaverKane.7598 Posted July 8, 2018 Share Posted July 8, 2018 > @"Zaraki.5784" said: > It makes me feel...strange and it feels disturbing, binding a living being to a machine feels extremely unethical for a "good guy", even in a videogame. Robocop, DC's Cyborg, Robotman, Deathlok, Cable, Megaman, i could go on, but i think i made my point. Its neither unheard nor unpopular to have cyborgs as heroes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hugo.4705 Posted July 8, 2018 Share Posted July 8, 2018 I like blish and gorrik, and love the inquest, they are less boring than "normal" asuran krewes and labs. I think you have the popular opinion and me the unpopular ^^ What about Alphonse in Full metal alchemist? A soul within a armor? I like these characters because it remind me them. I also like trans-humanism as a physiological manner. Would actually love to be blish: unaffected by diseases... I hope that in the nearest future we can save many many lives by artificial organs and prosthesis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just a flesh wound.3589 Posted July 8, 2018 Share Posted July 8, 2018 How about artificial hearts implanted into people? Does that feel strange or unethical? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uden Reavstone.3426 Posted July 8, 2018 Share Posted July 8, 2018 How ethical cyborgs honestly depends on how the creators of each franchise. For example: Mortal Kombat vs RWBY. There is nothing ethical about the cyborgs in MK, but some of the ones in RWBY are. In fact, one of the characters in RWBY has a robot arm, and the only reason why anyone blinked at it was because they were not expecting the some of its functions, including the built-in firearm. As long as we stay away from MK cyborgs, I'm fine with cyborgs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zedek.8932 Posted July 8, 2018 Share Posted July 8, 2018 I wish I could join the Inquest! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Night Fox.6018 Posted July 8, 2018 Share Posted July 8, 2018 Sci Fi and fantasy are not great genre's in of themselves. Before you stab me to death, let me explain. I am a consumer of sci fi and fantasy en masse. There is a LOT of really bad sci fi fantasy out there, but the definition between good and bad (and this is subjective, I say that because I'm not confident enough to say its objective) is its applicability to reality. In other words, it's not the bizarre themes and crazy action sequences that make great sci fi and fantasy but the moral and ethical dilemma in the ideas behind such stuff. A child in the center of a planet hooked to a machine that provides 7.4 billion lives with limitless energy, but the child suffers through tumultuous pain, unending. The sacrifice of the few for the benefit of the many. AT WHAT POINT DOES THE COST BECOME TOO HIGH? THAT is sci fi/fantasy genre at its peak. Where you look into yourself, and think, would I free the child from endless torment, but in so doing, destroy the paradise that has been created above? Are you a brash enough idealist to not realize the abundance of good that is caused by that child's suffering? Are you so unfeeling as to let your mind forget the screams of helplessness in those depths? These genres are retrospective. We see ourselves in through them, like a lens, but they are also a reflection, like a mirror. Blish is there to make you feel uncomfortable because Socrates says that introspection is uncomfortable. Knowing yourself is uncomfortable. His Socratic method was all about the exploration of "self", and was so uncomfortable he was forced to drink hemlock by his fellow peers. Blish forces us to ask what is ethical. I like it, and is perhaps one of the most interesting characters created by Anet, compounded by the fact that Taimi is clearly uncomfortable with Blish and the Asuran who genuinely thinks it is his brother (cant remember his name). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danikat.8537 Posted July 8, 2018 Share Posted July 8, 2018 > @"Zaraki.5784" said: > It makes me feel...strange and it feels disturbing, binding a living being to a machine feels extremely unethical for a "good guy", even in a videogame. I feel the same way, but I actually think it's good to confront these issues in games, movies, books etc. because one day it might be possible in real life and I think it helps if people can work through the ethical issues in a hypothetical situation first. Whether that's the people who will actually get to decide what is and is not allowed (which, when you factor in campaign groups, could be anyone) or the people who have to live with other people's decisions. For example where's the line between real-life prosthetics, things like Darth Vader's life support suit (which if you take away the evil villain aesthetic is a great way for people who need life support to survive to also have a decent quality of life) and what happened to Blish? At what point does it go from an acceptable solution to a problem to something unethical and creepy? And does it matter that Blish chose to do that to himself? If I remember correctly it's implied that he had the same condition as Taimi, but more advanced and it was basically a choice between that and death. And Taimi seemed quite pleased to learn there was an alternative. Honestly I don't know the answers to any of these, and I suspect it's something each person needs to work out for themselves. I'm not sure I'm even comfortable with organ donation. I've been fortunate enough to never be in that situation (and I sincerely hope it stays that way) so maybe I'd feel differently if it was a reality instead of a hypothetical, but I really don't know I could do that. The idea of having a piece of another person inside me...it makes me feel sick and upset. (And I really don't know why, looking at it objectively as a biologist it's an absurd reaction to have. My whole body is already made up of bits of other living things, mostly ones which weren't human and which were dead and cooked in between...but maybe that's the difference.) Honestly I think I'd be more comfortable with an artificial replacement. My dad has an artificial heart valve now, and that doesn't seem at all creepy to me. (BTW thank you NHS!) But somehow a whole artificial body seems very different. Maybe because then we're into Ghost in the Shell territory* of wondering how you can know you're a person in an artificial body and not a machine programmed to know that persons memories and act like they did. I think in that case Blish has the advantage that he almost certainly designed and built this golem himself and as much as he could oversaw the process so he knows exactly what went on. But even so it's a very weird concept and I don't think it's at all surprising or unreasonable to feel uncomfortable with it. *If you're interested in this topic and not familiar with Ghost in the Shell I highly recommend it - the manga or the original movie, not the later movies and TV show which only touch on this issue periodically. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Illconceived Was Na.9781 Posted July 8, 2018 Share Posted July 8, 2018 > @"Zaraki.5784" said: > It makes me feel...strange and it feels disturbing, binding a living being to a machine feels extremely unethical for a "good guy", even in a videogame. I don't see how it follows that some players feeling strange or disturbed means that something shouldn't be in the game. Some people have an irrational fear of spiders, so does that mean ANet shouldn't include spiders in the game? Besides that, [the concern is 6 years too late](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/The_Things_We_Do_For_Love); Blish isn't the first asura cyborg: > Despite the Inquest's continued interference, we successfully fused [Kazz](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Kazz) with a golem so that he and [Doxa](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Doxa) could be together forever. Once they were safe, Hronk offered me the title of Snaff Savant. I took it, of course: who else is more deserving? I think I also impressed Zojja, as she promised to keep an eye on me and my progress from here on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deatine.2498 Posted July 8, 2018 Share Posted July 8, 2018 I don't see the issue. We're biological machines, too. Nice he found a way to not die by transferring into a mechanical/electrical machine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dante.1763 Posted July 8, 2018 Share Posted July 8, 2018 > @"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said: > > @"Zaraki.5784" said: > > It makes me feel...strange and it feels disturbing, binding a living being to a machine feels extremely unethical for a "good guy", even in a videogame. > > I don't see how it follows that some players feeling stranger or disturbed means that something shouldn't be in the game. Some people have an irrational fear of spiders, so does that mean ANet shouldn't include spiders in the game? > > Besides that, [the concern is 6 years too late](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/The_Things_We_Do_For_Love); Blish isn't the first asura cyborg: > > Despite the Inquest's continued interference, we successfully fused [Kazz](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Kazz) with a golem so that he and [Doxa](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Doxa) could be together forever. Once they were safe, Hronk offered me the title of Snaff Savant. I took it, of course: who else is more deserving? I think I also impressed Zojja, as she promised to keep an eye on me and my progress from here on. > Hmmm...didnt oola do something similiar as well? Or am i mistaken? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Illconceived Was Na.9781 Posted July 8, 2018 Share Posted July 8, 2018 > @"Dante.1763" said: > Hmmm...didnt oola do something similiar as well? Or am i mistaken? Right, right. I had forgotten that. Yeah, I think that qualifies as "nearly identical" (not just similar). That story, too was also introduced at game launch. > [From the GW2 Wiki](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Oola) > Before her death, it seems that Oola was able to finally combine the secrets of golemancy and necromancy, creating a line of golems that could tap into the power of life and death. In a bid to increase her power and control, she tied her very essence to the core of her golem, the [OOL-99L](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Veteran_OOL-999l). With her death, [her ghost](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Oola%27s_Ghost) continues her work, in the [Old Oola Lab](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Old_Oola_Lab). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dante.1763 Posted July 8, 2018 Share Posted July 8, 2018 > @"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said: > > @"Dante.1763" said: > > Hmmm...didnt oola do something similiar as well? Or am i mistaken? > Right, right. I had forgotten that. Yeah, I think that qualifies as "nearly identical" (not just similar). That story, too was also introduced at game launch. > > > [From the GW2 Wiki](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Oola) > > Before her death, it seems that Oola was able to finally combine the secrets of golemancy and necromancy, creating a line of golems that could tap into the power of life and death. In a bid to increase her power and control, she tied her very essence to the core of her golem, the [OOL-99L](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Veteran_OOL-999l). With her death, [her ghost](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Oola%27s_Ghost) continues her work, in the [Old Oola Lab](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Old_Oola_Lab). Whoo! Glad my memory didnt fail to hard! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nilson.9865 Posted July 8, 2018 Share Posted July 8, 2018 > @"Zaraki.5784" said: > It makes me feel...strange and it feels disturbing, binding a living being to a machine feels extremely unethical for a "good guy", even in a videogame. I really envy you, because you have not discovered yet such masterpieces as FMA brotherhood, detroit becoming human, ghost in a shell, warframe, wolfenstein, deux ex... You'll see what such symbiosis can give you... >! long story short - immortality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klowdy.3126 Posted July 8, 2018 Share Posted July 8, 2018 > @"Vavume.8065" said: > Fusing man and machine is an old concept, the six million dollar Bionic man never complained about it, in fact I think most kids at the time wanted to grow up to be the Bionic man, I know I did. Yeah, but then the government forced him to work off his debt, which he is still doing with his poor salary :'( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexZero.7910 Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 > @"Nilson.9865" said: > > @"Zaraki.5784" said: > > It makes me feel...strange and it feels disturbing, binding a living being to a machine feels extremely unethical for a "good guy", even in a videogame. > I really envy you, because you have not discovered yet such masterpieces as FMA brotherhood, detroit becoming human, ghost in a shell, warframe, wolfenstein, deux ex... > You'll see what such symbiosis can give you... > >! long story short - immortality. > I'd add psycho-pass to that list of sci-fi that has man-machine complex problems. Though unlike the others it tackles the question of what is normal as far as civility/social constructs goes rather than the social burdens of man-machine interfacing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cyanweapon.7290 Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 Hold on, wait. I think there may be conflation afoot. Is Blish a cyborg (as in, blend of meaty parts and robo-parts) or a sentient consciousness shelled in a robot? We should try to be clear on what the icky-factor the OP is experiencing is coming from before making any refutes. There's an argument to be made for why those two things are very different. ...I won't be making that argument though, because I don't care that much. Neeners! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexZero.7910 Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 > @"cyanweapon.7290" said: > Hold on, wait. I think there may be conflation afoot. > > Is Blish a cyborg (as in, blend of meaty parts and robo-parts) or a sentient consciousness shelled in a robot? We should try to be clear on what the icky-factor the OP is experiencing is coming from before making any refutes. There's an argument to be made for why those two things are very different. > > ...I won't be making that argument though, because I don't care that much. Neeners! He's technically (as far as sci-fi goes) an Andriod (Golem in our universe). Fully synthetic outside of "the brain" which is a fusion of magic and golemancy in this universe. He was once an Asura. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zaklex.6308 Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 > @"Zaraki.5784" said: > It makes me feel...strange and it feels disturbing, binding a living being to a machine feels extremely unethical for a "good guy", even in a videogame. Blish did it to himself, he wasn't forced to do it, the Inquest did not insist he transfer his mind to a Golem, he decided to do it completely on his own. So you're saying there's something wrong with a person not wanting to die and having found a way to continue living using that method? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashantara.8731 Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 > @"Zaraki.5784" said: > It makes me feel...strange and it feels disturbing, binding a living being to a machine feels extremely unethical for a "good guy", even in a videogame. I think that's the point. It is _supposed_ to make us feel uncomfortable. And personally, I believe this could be the prelude to an equally unpleasant storyline for Taimi. Think Robocop or Darth Vader. ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother.1504 Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 The asura, even the “good” ones are kinda bat guano crazy by human standards, that’s why we love them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arden.7480 Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 > @"Zaraki.5784" said: > It makes me feel...strange and it feels disturbing, binding a living being to a machine feels extremely unethical for a "good guy", even in a videogame. You wouldnt like " Things we do for love" Chapter from the Asura personal story... Which is very, very dramatic... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scud.5067 Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 Two brothers, one fused with the body of a machine, the other a bit of a jerk. Isn't it a homage to Full Metal Alchemist? I'm not a raging fan, just saw the series. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now