Balance Patch Discussion Thread

[zoopop.5630]

one major issue was delt with, i'm cool with this patch over all. Power meta is a for sure thing now :D

[AegisFLCL.7623]

* Direct buff to Holosmith and Spellbreaker thanks to invuls.

* Elusive Mind still exists, and no reduction to confusion/torment stacks from mirage

* Adding an F# based stealth to only Deadeye when it should exist as a classwide skill for Thief

* Making power Rev even stronger

 

....*slow claps*....

 

Along with the terrible LS patch (imo), the balance team once again did nothing to address the real problems (I guess the healing reduction from FB is the one positive thing that came from this patch).

[Namless.4028]

The nerfs to necro were far to much

[Substance E.4852]

> @"Nimrud.5642" said:

> Somehow Blizz devs seem to know their game a lot better.

 

It's because they still have a cohesive creative team and manage to hold onto staff members for more than 6 months.

[mes.4607]

> @"zoopop.5630" said:

> one major issue was delt with, i'm cool with this patch over all. Power meta is a for sure thing now :D

 

Death to the condi meta

[Requiem.1865]

Can somebody explain me why Blur Frenzy dps is more nerfed in PVE=36% vs PVP=17% when PVP player said its too powerfull i mean its legit to correct for PVP but why change it PVE there only very few people how play full zerk chrono. People will prefer weaver/dh/holo/dd/base warrior. And its funny to see base warrior still way broken too strong for a basic class without master specialisation class.

[Nimrud.5642]

> @"Substance E.4852" said:

> > @"Nimrud.5642" said:

> > Somehow Blizz devs seem to know their game a lot better.

>

> It's because they still have a cohesive creative team and manage to hold onto staff members for more than 6 months.

 

That again tells me: Anet is trying to minimize costs so they treat their employees as they treat their customers. 'Payraise? Better work conditions? Fuck those! Get the next fresh graduate 2-pump-chump for cheap!' :)

[Curunen.8729]

> @"EpicTurtle.8571" said:

> > @"mortrialus.3062" said:

> > > @"EpicTurtle.8571" said:

> > > > @"mortrialus.3062" said:

> > > > > @"Mbelch.9028" said:

> > > > > I don't see one yet, so might as well get the ball rolling...

> > > > >

> > > > > I saw some really nice QOL changes for classes throughout, but had some questions as a whole relating to why some changes were made.

> > > > >

> > > > > 1.) Mesmer changes — Were they enough? Time will tell, but according to a few top PvPers, the nerfs happened in the wrong places and might have done damage in the wrong way.

> > > > > 2.) Reaper damage buffs — Was that necessary?

> > > > > 3.) FB healing nerfs — Was that necessary?

> > > > > 4.) Revenant damage buffed — Both directly and indirectly... I don't think this was a good decision. Their PVP damage was already legendary. If you say it wasn't, you've never faced a good Rev.

> > > > > 5.) Soulbeast damage buff — This is a potentially scary buff to a class that already has great damage. Thoughts?

> > > >

> > > > I like them.

> > > >

> > > > > Mesmer

> > > > > Mesmers have been doing a little too well in recent updates, with increased damage across the board due to the confusion changes, as well as unparalleled support from boon share on top of multiple evasion windows. While we think these are good thematic roles for mesmers to have, their overall effectiveness is too high, so we are taking steps to rein in some of that extra power.

> > > > >

> > > > > Blurred Frenzy: The animation time of this skill has been reduced from approximately 1.75 seconds to 1 second while retaining all previous attacks. Damage of this skill has been reduced by 17% in PvP and WvW, with PvE being reduced by 36%. The baseline recharge time has been reduced from 12 seconds to 10 seconds.

> > > > > The Prestige: Burning duration has been modified from 3 stacks for 3 seconds to 1 stack for 9 seconds.

> > > > > Phantasmal Mage: The burning duration of the initial attack has been modified from 2 stacks for 3 seconds to 1 stack for 6 seconds. The attack's burning has been modified from 3 stacks for 3 seconds to 1 stack for 9 seconds.

> > > > > Maim the Disillusioned: Torment duration has been split between game modes and will now deliver 4 seconds of torment in PvP and WvW while continuing to deal 6 seconds of torment in PvE.

> > > > > Imaginary Axes: Inflicted torment duration has been reduced from 5 seconds to 4 seconds.

> > > > > Axes of Symmetry: Inflicted confusion duration has been reduced from 8 seconds to 6 seconds in PvE.

> > > > > Jaunt: The ammunition recharge time of this skill has now been split and will use a 30-second cooldown in PvP and WvW while maintaining a 20-second cooldown in PvE.

> > > > > Signet of Inspiration: Reduced the duration of aegis shared by this skill from 10 seconds to 2 seconds.

> > > > > Illusionary Inspiration: Reduced the duration of aegis shared by this trait from 10 seconds to 2 seconds.

> > > > > Inspiring Distortion: Reduced the duration of aegis shared by this trait from 5 seconds to 2 seconds.

> > > > > Nomad's Endurance: Fixed a bug that could cause the bonus condition damage from this trait to be applied to characters other than the mesmer.

> > > > > Chaotic Persistence: The boon and condition duration bonus has been decreased from 3% to 2% per boon on the mesmer.

> > > >

> > > > The torch changes have been my exact prescription for Condi Mirage.

> > >

> > > Would've been nice to have some cooldown reduction at least seeing as they're on par with Torch 4 on Ranger now, just point blank.

> >

> > You can't really quantify them purely by damage when The Prestige stealths.

>

> The stealth ends up being the longest most obvious telegraph in the game, so yes I will quantify it purely by damage. Besides, Mesmer Torch skills have been baseline 30 second cooldown for little reason.

 

I agree, and wouldn't mind even if the burn duration was further slightly shaved (1 or 2s) if it allowed scope for at most 25s base cd on 4 and 5 (maybe even 20s on 5)

[Megametzler.5729]

As an ele player, this is it. What a poor patch. Nothing was touched that was necessary, just number tweaks. That's not what we needed.

 

I am just going to play meme builds, zerker staff and poking people with my lava fonts lol. -40% damage...

[mortrialus.3062]

Does the invulnerability condi change impact Elixer S and Endure Pain?

[DuelMaster.2480]

Wish they would just say we nerfed this class - here is how. Or we buffed this class - here is how... :) Some of it is hard to figure out for me personally.

[Specialka.7290]

Endure pain reduce direct dmg to 0, it is not an invuln if I am not mistaken.

[mortrialus.3062]

> @"Specialka.7290" said:

> Endure pain reduce direct dmg to 0, it is not an invuln if I am not mistaken.

 

Yeah. I think it's just elixer s distortion and renewed focus? I can't get in game to see exactly what skills got this change.

[Crinn.7864]

> @"Mbelch.9028" said:

> 2.) Reaper damage buffs — Was that necessary?

 

You missed the "PvE only" in the notes.

 

The only PvP-relevant Reaper damage bonus in this patch was the 10% on Death Spiral but only against foes above 50% health. For the record Death Spiral only hits for 3-4k pre-patch.

 

The change to siphoned power doesn't change Reaper's damage potential, it just allows Reaper to recover from being boonripped faster.

 

[Nimrud.5642]

> @"Specialka.7290" said:

> > @"Nimrud.5642" said:

> > > @"Specialka.7290" said:

> > > > @"Nimrud.5642" said:

> > > > I just cant believe that devs are so clueless about game mechanics. I just cant believe that they said to themselves 'we've done our best to come up with some great changes'. No... They dont care. And they dont dedicate time. Probably because they are told to do so, and not because they are incompetent.

> > > >

> > > > The concepts behind what they have done may took 2-3 hours for one person to come up with. Any knowledgeable member of the community could have done a better job. Anet is like the lazy kid, who tries to get through his homework with the least possible effort. They dont do it to fix issues, they do it cuz they need something to write in the patchnotes. Thats all... to make themselves look as if they are trying.

> > > >

> > > > And they proved this quite a few times before.

> > > >

> > > > We could protest by completely abandoning the gamemode or even the whole game, but they would not care either. ESL, underwater pvp, hard PvE content, etc... they all backed out of these things. And they will keep doing that. They develop this game with the attitude a grocery store shop clerk. They keep pushing what gives money, and remove/neglect anything that:

> > > > -takes more resources (in-depth pvp rework takes quite a bit of manpower)

> > > > -doesnt sell (pvp balance does not generate incomes directly like skins)

> > > > -is problematic (balancing PvE dps is a piece of cake and requires a lot less insight into the ins and out of the gameplay unlike pvp).

> > > >

> > > > This is a profit oriented business peeps. Looking for the best possible effort/income ratio. We have zero problems with the dev team. The problems we have are with the economy department.

> > > >

> > > > I think I try the new BFA WoW expansion. Most of the above is true about Blizz as well, but the difference in income/population size allow a little more room. Somehow Blizz devs seem to know their game a lot better. (Skipped 7 years and just jumped the new expack bandwagon so I'm probably going too far here with my assumptions.)

> > > >

> > > > tl;dr: Dont expect anything revolutionary from Anet. They will keep doing what they have always done. And compaining to them about the game only tells them one thing: you still have an account. :)

> > > >

> > > > C U peeps

> > >

> > > And so your point is? Except QQing, what can you do? What do you propose?

> >

> > Leave the game! Only stay if you are fine with the current way of things.

> >

> > And also you forget something: I'm not an Anet employee and this is not the Monday meeting at 10 am. So shove up your 'positive attitude' where the sun dont shine. If Anet cared a bit, they could have taken advice from much more knowledgeable players than me. Vallun, Frosty, Helseth, Chaith, Phanta... should I go on? They all did their part just to be ignored most of the time. Good luck with your positive attitude and constructivity. (Which you are not, you just rying to look smart and superior.)

>

> I am smarter and superior to you, that is for sure. And so, what is your issue with that patch? Again, except Qqing, why can't you elaborate?

 

So you claim to be smarter and superior, yet you are asking for an answer for the second time that was in my first post even before you asked... you would make a great Anet dev for sure? Tried applying? :)

[KumaDXL.9124]

Why would you nerf Pistole + Pistole and buff soulbeast dmg ? Soulbeast already beat deadeye pp on mostly everything. Really nerfing p/p thief ??? The class is already too risky to play u die by every class literally on 1 v 1 not to mention mesmer can delete you from the match if he is against you in the match and mesmer isn't the only class can delete a deadeye p/p. This p/p thief Isn't even meta ! why nerf it. I'm the only guy with at least a decent build for it and I can tell you there is no way I can carry a PVP ranked match with this build. Mesmer, Engi holosmith, Thief, Rev , soulbeast all these classes can delete p/p Deadeye thief on a PVP ranked match, So explain to me why nerf? The first nerf was the stun on deadeye. now you nerf the p/p unload skill. Like 2 nerfs for my build on the two last seasons why ?! it's not even OP its not even meta. I'm the only person who got a decent build for it! With all respect, ArenaNet Balance team stop hearing Gold and Silver crying babies and get some feedback from your Plat or Legends players. The deadeye p/p is supposed to kill fast because it dies fast by any burst combo even FIREBRAND support can kill a deadeye on 1 v 1 if he is smart enough. Holosmith can do the same amount of massive dmg as the deadeye p/p and can survive even better!

[dDuff.3860]

broken tp spots on top of thief nerfs made it unplayable, unless you're going for rifle is is big kitten

[Nuka Cola.8520]

This game is funny.

[omgdracula.6345]

Dagger Training: In addition to causing dagger attacks to poison enemies, this trait now grants 5% bonus damage to dagger attacks.

 

Is this just dagger autos? Or all dagger based attacks?

[AegisFLCL.7623]

> @"omgdracula.6345" said:

> Dagger Training: In addition to causing dagger attacks to poison enemies, this trait now grants 5% bonus damage to dagger attacks.

>

> Is this just dagger autos? Or all dagger based attacks?

 

Competes with mug, therefor irrelevant change for PvP

[mortrialus.3062]

> @"AegisFLCL.7623" said:

> > @"omgdracula.6345" said:

> > Dagger Training: In addition to causing dagger attacks to poison enemies, this trait now grants 5% bonus damage to dagger attacks.

> >

> > Is this just dagger autos? Or all dagger based attacks?

>

> Competes with mug, therefor irrelevant change for PvP

 

Do condi thieves take mug?

[AegisFLCL.7623]

> @"mortrialus.3062" said:

> > @"AegisFLCL.7623" said:

> > > @"omgdracula.6345" said:

> > > Dagger Training: In addition to causing dagger attacks to poison enemies, this trait now grants 5% bonus damage to dagger attacks.

> > >

> > > Is this just dagger autos? Or all dagger based attacks?

> >

> > Competes with mug, therefor irrelevant change for PvP

>

> Do condi thieves take mug?

 

Most condi thieves I've seen run S/D and SB, so the flat damage increase to any dagger attacks is useless, but I guess the the extra poison procs off crippling dagger spam could be slightly better than useless. Steal is your primary burst as condi, running carrion makes mug a nice flat dmg increase alongside healing.

 

Might work if you run d/d, but imo that's just asking to be melted even quicker staying in melee range for long periods of time.

[Math.5123]

> @"mortrialus.3062" said:

> > @"Specialka.7290" said:

> > Endure pain reduce direct dmg to 0, it is not an invuln if I am not mistaken.

>

> Yeah. I think it's just elixer s distortion and renewed focus? I can't get in game to see exactly what skills got this change.

 

Mist form, focus earth 5.

[Interpretor.3091]

Ill definitely agree that the power meta is here to stay.

 

Firebrand nerf was good. A team with a firebrand vs a team without one was almosy an instant loss.

 

I think that Engi and Rev are really going to shine now that Mesmer is actually semi-touchable again (but still strong), but I still think that they will be niche/meme classes since we still have this brawler meta. That being said spellbreaker is gonna be the undisputed king of side nodes and 1v1s.

 

Other than that the patch is a real shame. We really needed some radical changes to shake up the meta and that unfortunately didnt happen...again. I think we would all rather have larger, more impactful class changes, than small meaningless ones that may or may not change the meta slightly.

 

Grats if you main Warrior, Mesmer, Firebrand, Scourge, or Thief because you are still meta and everything else is still far under you.

 

 

[Master Ketsu.4569]

This is basically a lazy patch. Most of the changes will be a non impact as they do not touch on how or why things are UP or OP.

 

Some negative highlights:

1. Shield of Wrath from 36 to 35 cd and Envoy of Exuberance from 10 energy to 8. Just LOL. It's like they tried to care but then fell asleep halfway.

2. Elusive mind. "Oh look, a trait that by itself is better in PvP than the entire trait lines of other specs in the game. What should we do? Ah yes, of course, we should leave it alone. It's not like legit nearly 100% of top ranked players were saying it needed a nerf or anything."

3. Soulbeast actually doesn't need buffs and already has a viable build. For some strange reason the build never made it to metabattle or anywhere, so I don't put too much blame on the balance team for missing this. Still, it now has potential to be PP thief 2.0.

4. Buffing Herald while ignoring Renegade? Well, it's a meme anyways.

5. Elixer U was overbuffed. Granting both quickness and stability on the same skill regrants holos the ability to "Pop stab, mindlessly spam holo rotation". This should be reverted asap. Anet please stop randomly buffing utility skills that are already meta.

 

Some positive changes:

1. Condi getting a flat nerf in how it can be countered. This new weakness can only be exploited by certain classes, but it's still nice.

2. Nerfing blurred frenzy, Rune of adventurer, and Jaunt CD. Mesmer needed some nerfs to their mobility/defenses and got it, which is a good thing. They probably were not enough and the class is likely still at least SS tier, but it's a step in the right direction.

3. Swindler's Equilibrium. Double steal was BS and needed to go. So good job to anet for recognizing this one at least.

4. Firebrand support nerfed but not by a lot. FB support needed a small nerf and they got it.

 

That's about it really. Once again the balance team shows they either aren't really trying, or are being held back by finances/marketing/time budgets, or just quite frankly don't really seem to know what they are doing.

 

Overall I give the patch a C+. It made things better but only by very tiny margins. Would have been a B if they didn't ignore how blatantly and obviously OP Elusive mind is.