This game is so unbalanced that if...

[Nuka Cola.8520]

The OG OP builds were reintroduced as they were back in the day, they wouldn't be considered OP, because the power creep has surpassed them greatly.

 

OG D/D ele, condi Berserker, hambow, terror necs, condi shout reaper, etc. They would be just another build, not broken op like they were back in the day when the game "tried" to have balance.

 

The only old builds that would remain op is bunker chrono and the original broken af Rev.

[Crinn.7864]

> @"Nuka Cola.8520" said:

> condi shout reaper,

 

Pretty sure shout reaper was only ever "OG OP" in WvW. Unless you are talking about Procmancer which only used two shouts and was literally only used in tournaments since boonrip was the only way to kill a support ele back then and necromancer had a monopoly on boonrip at the time.

 

 

[Nuka Cola.8520]

> @"Crinn.7864" said:

> > @"Nuka Cola.8520" said:

> > condi shout reaper,

>

> Pretty sure shout reaper was only ever "OG OP" in WvW. Unless you are talking about Procmancer which only used two shouts and was literally only used in tournaments since boonrip was the only way to kill a support ele back then and necromancer had a monopoly on boonrip at the time.

>

>

 

You may be right about wvw. I quit the game for over a year when the first garbage expansion came out, so i missed on the op'ness of many builds and don't remember exactly what many were.

[Gwaihir.1745]

> @"Nuka Cola.8520" said:

> The OG OP builds were reintroduced as they were back in the day, they wouldn't be considered OP, because the power creep has surpassed them greatly.

>

> OG D/D ele, condi Berserker, hambow, terror necs, condi shout reaper, etc. They would be just another build, not broken op like they were back in the day when the game "tried" to have balance.

>

> The only old builds that would remain op is bunker chrono and the original broken af Rev.

 

Name an mmo that isn't like that though

[Nuka Cola.8520]

> @"Gwaihir.1745" said:

> > @"Nuka Cola.8520" said:

> > The OG OP builds were reintroduced as they were back in the day, they wouldn't be considered OP, because the power creep has surpassed them greatly.

> >

> > OG D/D ele, condi Berserker, hambow, terror necs, condi shout reaper, etc. They would be just another build, not broken op like they were back in the day when the game "tried" to have balance.

> >

> > The only old builds that would remain op is bunker chrono and the original broken af Rev.

>

> Name an mmo that isn't like that though

 

Dunno, i don't exactly play them. Not that i don't like the genre, but there's simply nothing good rn

[Rukia.4802]

It's relatively easy to balance pvp , we've had balance before. The 2 main problems in an MMO: meta/roles get stagnant, you can have a balanced but boring game, and new specs/classes. MMO devs will ruin things for no reason other than to mix things up. Learn to go with the current instead of fighting against it, I mean if you're even still raging at this games pvp in 2018 idk what to say I thought we all accepted it was trash for competitive and just enjoy it for what it is. Good combat mechanics compared to most other games without endless grind to hop in and play. It's probably the most cancerous pvp in the genre as far as class design goes , I admit this game has raged me more than any other, I even went back to WoW arena many times cuz of it. But I just learned to accept it's garbage and I started having more fun.

[FtoPScrub.5476]

They will continue to buff META specs so long as they are balanced relative to other META specs without regard for poorly performing builds. Such a shame. The whole current META should've have received powercreep nerfs instead a few of them got buffs while other poorly performing specs are left in the dust.

[Sigmoid.7082]

>They will continue to buff META specs so long as they are balanced relative to other META specs without regard for poorly performing builds.

 

One thing that bothers me is people will complain that a whole bunch of utility skills are under used or underpowered. Regardless of class this is true. But when anet attempts to address this issue by buffing said skills or bring them into modern times with a revamp and people will get super mad because its on a class that is currently considered meta. As if things on classes currently considered meta should never be looked at besides nerfs. Current example being the support warrior changes.

 

Also another fundamental is spending ages complaining about something then when its attained complaining about the consequences. Example being the poll for class locking before a match where Anet said if they did they could do a lot of things people ask for ( class specific MMR, Class/Build stacking etc ). Another being all the complaints about condi as a whole literally any time at least 1 condi class is meta, part of the resulting discussion being how invulnerability doesnt block condi damage, Anet making this change and then the backlash of "omg how could you make this change because it buffs [insert class in the current meta]"

[Gamble.4580]

> @"Rukia.4802" said:

> It's relatively easy to balance pvp , we've had balance before. The 2 main problems in an MMO: meta/roles get stagnant, you can have a balanced but boring game, and new specs/classes. MMO devs will ruin things for no reason other than to mix things up. Learn to go with the current instead of fighting against it, I mean if you're even still raging at this games pvp in 2018 idk what to say I thought we all accepted it was trash for competitive and just enjoy it for what it is. Good combat mechanics compared to most other games without endless grind to hop in and play. It's probably the most cancerous pvp in the genre as far as class design goes , I admit this game has raged me more than any other, I even went back to WoW arena many times cuz of it. But I just learned to accept it's garbage and I started having more fun.

 

We have never had balance lmao, and if u say the pure hot days you was not there lmao. Pvp was more simple back then and easer to understand but the classes was not balanced. After hot, nope still no balance revs, grds, chill necro. After pof hmm u tell me.

[FtoPScrub.5476]

> @"Sigmoid.7082" said:

 

> One thing that bothers me is people will complain that a whole bunch of utility skills are under used or underpowered. Regardless of class this is true. But when anet attempts to address this issue by buffing said skills or bring them into modern times with a revamp and people will get super mad because its on a class that is currently considered meta. As if things on classes currently considered meta should never be looked at besides nerfs. Current example being the support warrior changes.

 

Everyone of their buffs to underused aspects of warrior worked to make the support spec stronger without indirectly buffing Spellbreaker. Their mistake was buffing Shake It Off - definitely not an underpowered nor underused skill. It's solely poor balancing on their part. They buffed a skill that was already in widespread use. It's simply a case of them being slow to understand what the current meta is. They most likely did not realize Shake It Off was frequently in use before they made the changes to it.

 

> Also another fundamental is spending ages complaining about something then when its attained complaining about the consequences. Example being the poll for class locking before a match where Anet said if they did they could do a lot of things people ask for ( class specific MMR, Class/Build stacking etc ). Another being all the complaints about condi as a whole literally any time at least 1 condi class is meta, part of the resulting discussion being how invulnerability doesnt block condi damage, Anet making this change and then the backlash of "omg how could you make this change because it buffs [insert class in the current meta]"

 

The only problem here is that they failed to anticipate how this would affect Holosmith and push back on it. It's okay to give as long as you take an equal amount. You want to make invulnerability immune to conditions? Alright, cool, but then maybe we should preemptively make some adjustments(nerfs) to Holosmith's sustain to counteract this.

 

 

I generally think that when Anet understands what the current meta is and why it is that way they will make decent changes. It's not always true(see elusive mind) but it usually is. Their biggest problem is speed. They are slow to realize what is meta and rely solely on player feedback. Furthermore they never make changes in anticipation - they are purely reactionary. This isn't a bad way to do things except when their balance patches are 2-3 months apart. If they adopted say, a 2 week balance cycle that is focused on fewer but targeted changes then the reactionary approach works fine, but if the patches are months apart they need to anticipate how the meta will change and ensure appropriate steps are taken to ensure there won't be anything grossly deviant.

[Delweyn.1309]

> @"Nuka Cola.8520" said:

> The OG OP builds were reintroduced as they were back in the day, they wouldn't be considered OP, because the power creep has surpassed them greatly.

>

> OG D/D ele, condi Berserker, hambow, terror necs, condi shout reaper, etc. They would be just another build, not broken op like they were back in the day when the game "tried" to have balance.

>

> The only old builds that would remain op is bunker chrono and the original broken af Rev.

 

If all spe are op, the game is balanced no ?

[Nuka Cola.8520]

> @"Delweyn.1309" said:

> > @"Nuka Cola.8520" said:

> > The OG OP builds were reintroduced as they were back in the day, they wouldn't be considered OP, because the power creep has surpassed them greatly.

> >

> > OG D/D ele, condi Berserker, hambow, terror necs, condi shout reaper, etc. They would be just another build, not broken op like they were back in the day when the game "tried" to have balance.

> >

> > The only old builds that would remain op is bunker chrono and the original broken af Rev.

>

> If all spe are op, the game is balanced no ?

 

No, its Guild Wars 2.

[ZhouX.8742]

No, if all specs are op you'd still have 2 classes still performing better because class mechanics from thief / mes alone put them above everything else automatically due to their mechanics in PvP conquest.

[Nuka Cola.8520]

> @"ZhouX.8742" said:

> No, if all specs are op you'd still have 2 classes still performing better because class mechanics from thief / mes alone put them above everything else automatically due to their mechanics in PvP conquest.

 

i have been asking for stealth rework for over half a decade. you nerf stealth, and those two classes won't have it easy when it comes to survival.

[Vagrant.7206]

> @"Nuka Cola.8520" said:

> The OG OP builds were reintroduced as they were back in the day, they wouldn't be considered OP, because the power creep has surpassed them greatly.

>

> OG D/D ele, condi Berserker, hambow, terror necs, condi shout reaper, etc. They would be just another build, not broken op like they were back in the day when the game "tried" to have balance.

>

> The only old builds that would remain op is bunker chrono and the original broken af Rev.

 

My argument is that turret engi (back when it was seen as OP) would be so obsolete it would be laughable.

[Dadnir.5038]

I'm pretty sure that terror necs would be still perceived as OP thought, slick shoes engi would still be perceived as op as well. And the same goes for every bunker build that's been nerfed to oblivion. A lot of general things changed with HoT, vanilla OP build wouldn't necessarily be at a disadvantage against current professions.

[Jae.5138]

new expansion comes out, every build except the new specs are garbage. same pattern every expansion.

[Crinn.7864]

> @"Nuka Cola.8520" said:

> > @"ZhouX.8742" said:

> > No, if all specs are op you'd still have 2 classes still performing better because class mechanics from thief / mes alone put them above everything else automatically due to their mechanics in PvP conquest.

>

> i have been asking for stealth rework for over half a decade. you nerf stealth, and those two classes won't have it easy when it comes to survival.

 

Stealth isn't what makes either of those classes so strong. It's the mobility.

 

You can't kill what you can't catch, and you can't survive what you can't escape.

[Blocki.4931]

Anybody saying they never buff underused stuff is out of their mind. They've been doing that for ages.

[Nuka Cola.8520]

> @"Crinn.7864" said:

> > @"Nuka Cola.8520" said:

> > > @"ZhouX.8742" said:

> > > No, if all specs are op you'd still have 2 classes still performing better because class mechanics from thief / mes alone put them above everything else automatically due to their mechanics in PvP conquest.

> >

> > i have been asking for stealth rework for over half a decade. you nerf stealth, and those two classes won't have it easy when it comes to survival.

>

> Stealth isn't what makes either of those classes so strong. It's the mobility.

>

> You can't kill what you can't catch, and you can't survive what you can't escape.

 

Mobility wasn't a thing before Mirage was introduced, and people cry about mesmer since 2012. QQ about thief is understandable, they have the best mobility since launch, no CD on stealth and tons of disengages/gap closers. As if this wasn't enough, Chill doesn't even slow down the initiatives regen, while it slows down everyone else's recharge on skills.

[Schwahrheit.4203]

Nobody disagrees, but it doesn't change the fact that GW2 was at it's prime BEFORE Heart of Trash expansion hit the game.

 

Before HoT? I'll give a rough idea of how the balance was like.

-Warrior was a DPSER that could hold a point more than any other DPSer in the game and this was balanced through high casting times and NOT BEING ABLE TO SPAM INVULN OR EVADES WHILE ATTACKING AND HAVING SPECIFIC IMMUNITIES vs. CERTAIN ATTACKS. Rampage Warrior had disgusting counterplay where if you walked in a straight line, you would dodge everything Warrior had if he didn't have Rampage. Don't even get me started on how you can just "evade spam" rampage if you weren't a garbage tier Ranger/Mesmer main, ALL CLASSES had a way to out-wait Rampage if you actually knew how to dodge high casting times. Warrior had to "attack to survive" because if you were not good at baiting dodges and landing burst before HoT you should just re-roll to an easy class. Warrior was such an honest class before HoT, right now? Spell Breaker just pops full counter on unblockables which "can" be somewhat hard but it will NEVER be as honest and as hard as landing high casting times BEFORE HoT. Another thing before HoT is that GS Warrior was potentially aids, but a lot of builds could 1v1 it since Warrior DOESN'T SPAM EVADES WHILE ATTACKING other than whirlwind slash. After HoT? Berserker condi was just a one button KO class on certain match-ups, and Spellbreaker is just a dumbed down uninnovative design of DPS Warrior before HoT, not fun to play not exhilirating but if you nerfed Warrior during PoF? Warrior would be trash cause of everything else being broken. Bad decision making from ANET and bad design. Dying to a Warrior before HoT just mean you're bad at abusing Z-axis teleport, spamming ez mode from day 1 evades, or you ran out of stun breaks and if the Warrior got all your stun breaks down and downs you? That's on you, you simply made an honest mistake.

-Mesmers could actually get bursted even by high casting time classes such as Warriors, they were actually at a decent spot at this point in time. Shatter Mesmer in this era was actually in an okay spot even though Shatter was always a braindead spec cause "HURR DURR IM EVADING WHILE DOING INSTACAST SHATTERS AND PHANTASMS" cause they couldn't really hold a point. And then Chrono Bunker made the fact that Mesmer had a medium HP pool insignificant and made them ABLE to hold a point because LETS ADD MORE EVADES TO AN ALREADY ZERO SKILL EVADE SPAM CLASS. Mirage LOL everybody knows ANET has issues implementing garbage like this.

-Rangers actually HAD TO DO WORK and had potential to actually be balanced at that point. After HoT? See Mesmer. Literally ANET making bad principles buffing a potentially cancer class, should've just buffed the ranger itself, not the goddamn pet, but in HoT SMOKESCALE SO SKILLFULL LMAO.

-D/D elementalist was the only cancer and scepter/focus burst ele was playable even tho it wasn't as strong. Staff ele somewhat works too even though D/D ele can push someone out of a point better, at least knowing how to count dodges in this Era of the game made even something like D/D ele tolerable compared to the fail balance that we have right now.

-Engi was THE HARDEST class to play in this era because slick shoes was nerfed and that if you weren't able to land 1200 range grenades like Ostrich or Chaith? You were garbage. They have some build variety on this meta as well and they dueled pretty decently but you had to do more work than Scrapper did.

-Guardian, like always, viable no matter what meta. They could go Bunker CC with hammer or DPS, there was build/role variety for them before HoT and you actually had to time/feint with Hammer, even tho this was pretty easy even before HoT. But at least they didn't make evades pointless like Dragonhunter did, HoT just made this class easier when it was already easy cancer.

-Thief actually would get AoE'd to death if they weren't careful, they required intense decision making because every other classes had insane AoE and they had a hard time finishing people off in a lot of situations. Daredevil? Just spam evades. No comment on Deadeye seeing as Scourge is probably a bigger evil.

-Necros could actually get bursted in a gank and DID NOT have the cleave to back up their amazing 1v1 capability. When Reaper came out? Necro had too much counterpressure and they had the cleave in team fights which was stupidly broken. Scourge is just as disgusting, really stupid change.

 

This game COULD HAVE BEEN a standard example of "it's balanced but I can establish an identity and find my own playstyle"

 

But because ANET refuses to swallow their pride, refuses to make great decisions, and overall doesn't wanna "git gud" ESL dropped the game and is never going to takei t back.

 

Way to ruin a potentially amazing game ANET, WAY TO GO.

[pureskullz.7536]

The issue with balancing everything completely could drive out all the new players and bad players and anet will see a massive player dip so they might be purposely breaking crap for the sole purpose of player base and money. Along with the fact that it allows more players to flood in and just use one brain-dead easy class and have fun and stick around longer. That's how I view the subject I don't see anet as a clean company that wants a balanced pvp force or any competitive play for that matter as that takes up a lot of money. I view them as a company that wants money from players and will love to unbalance things I don't come to this game for competitive play anymore gave up that hope for good but there is no other good genre that can match it's pvp mechanics one day they will realize that a company with the idea to take their mechanics and focus on competitive play will most likely kill the game off sooner or later. Regardless I just use the game to keep it so I'm better and sharper at pvp and go to other games for competitive play. =D and hi if you see this anet

One extra note as well they probably are nerfing non PoF builds a little more each balance patch to encourage more players to play the PoF specs in case you have an F2P account example would be you play F2P you get to the point you can't play anymore without a e spec so you go and buy the PoF expansion to get up to date. O/

[pureskullz.7536]

> @"Schwahrheit.4203" said:

> Nobody disagrees, but it doesn't change the fact that GW2 was at it's prime BEFORE Heart of Trash expansion hit the game.

>

> Before HoT? I'll give a rough idea of how the balance was like.

> -Warrior was a DPSER that could hold a point more than any other DPSer in the game and this was balanced through high casting times and NOT BEING ABLE TO SPAM INVULN OR EVADES WHILE ATTACKING AND HAVING SPECIFIC IMMUNITIES vs. CERTAIN ATTACKS. Rampage Warrior had disgusting counterplay where if you walked in a straight line, you would dodge everything Warrior had if he didn't have Rampage. Don't even get me started on how you can just "evade spam" rampage if you weren't a garbage tier Ranger/Mesmer main, ALL CLASSES had a way to out-wait Rampage if you actually knew how to dodge high casting times. Warrior had to "attack to survive" because if you were not good at baiting dodges and landing burst before HoT you should just re-roll to an easy class. Warrior was such an honest class before HoT, right now? Spell Breaker just pops full counter on unblockables which "can" be somewhat hard but it will NEVER be as honest and as hard as landing high casting times BEFORE HoT. Another thing before HoT is that GS Warrior was potentially aids, but a lot of builds could 1v1 it since Warrior DOESN'T SPAM EVADES WHILE ATTACKING other than whirlwind slash. After HoT? Berserker condi was just a one button KO class on certain match-ups, and Spellbreaker is just a dumbed down uninnovative design of DPS Warrior before HoT, not fun to play not exhilirating but if you nerfed Warrior during PoF? Warrior would be trash cause of everything else being broken. Bad decision making from ANET and bad design. Dying to a Warrior before HoT just mean you're bad at abusing Z-axis teleport, spamming ez mode from day 1 evades, or you ran out of stun breaks and if the Warrior got all your stun breaks down and downs you? That's on you, you simply made an honest mistake.

> -Mesmers could actually get bursted even by high casting time classes such as Warriors, they were actually at a decent spot at this point in time. Shatter Mesmer in this era was actually in an okay spot even though Shatter was always a braindead spec cause "HURR DURR IM EVADING WHILE DOING INSTACAST SHATTERS AND PHANTASMS" cause they couldn't really hold a point. And then Chrono Bunker made the fact that Mesmer had a medium HP pool insignificant and made them ABLE to hold a point because LETS ADD MORE EVADES TO AN ALREADY ZERO SKILL EVADE SPAM CLASS. Mirage LOL everybody knows ANET has issues implementing garbage like this.

> -Rangers actually HAD TO DO WORK and had potential to actually be balanced at that point. After HoT? See Mesmer. Literally ANET making bad principles buffing a potentially cancer class, should've just buffed the ranger itself, not the kitten pet, but in HoT SMOKESCALE SO SKILLFULL LMAO.

> -D/D elementalist was the only cancer and scepter/focus burst ele was playable even tho it wasn't as strong. Staff ele somewhat works too even though D/D ele can push someone out of a point better, at least knowing how to count dodges in this Era of the game made even something like D/D ele tolerable compared to the fail balance that we have right now.

> -Engi was THE HARDEST class to play in this era because slick shoes was nerfed and that if you weren't able to land 1200 range grenades like Ostrich or Chaith? You were garbage. They have some build variety on this meta as well and they dueled pretty decently but you had to do more work than Scrapper did.

> -Guardian, like always, viable no matter what meta. They could go Bunker CC with hammer or DPS, there was build/role variety for them before HoT and you actually had to time/feint with Hammer, even tho this was pretty easy even before HoT. But at least they didn't make evades pointless like Dragonhunter did, HoT just made this class easier when it was already easy cancer.

> -Thief actually would get AoE'd to death if they weren't careful, they required intense decision making because every other classes had insane AoE and they had a hard time finishing people off in a lot of situations. Daredevil? Just spam evades. No comment on Deadeye seeing as Scourge is probably a bigger evil.

> -Necros could actually get bursted in a gank and DID NOT have the cleave to back up their amazing 1v1 capability. When Reaper came out? Necro had too much counterpressure and they had the cleave in team fights which was stupidly broken. Scourge is just as disgusting, really stupid change.

>

> This game COULD HAVE BEEN a standard example of "it's balanced but I can establish an identity and find my own playstyle"

>

> But because ANET refuses to swallow their pride, refuses to make great decisions, and overall doesn't wanna "git gud" ESL dropped the game and is never going to takei t back.

>

> Way to ruin a potentially amazing game ANET, WAY TO GO.

 

Most likely anet was paying their way into ESL and needed more players and didn't have the money and they slowly killed competition off once they changed to an unbalancing on purpose as a way of running the game for money. Now they have enough they could go for competitive play and probably get away with it.