Hardest profession profession to play?

[MUDse.7623]

> @"Lanhelin.3480" said:

> The hardest profession to play is the one you're not used to.

 

^this. for me it would be ranger.

[Nimon.7840]

For pve: Condi engineer. Holo is pretty easy though, because you can play it with no kits and still do very good amount of dps

 

In wvw/PvP: necro or rev. Rev because condicleanses on him are pretty bad and because they have to manage a recourse. Necro because it has the most weaknesses of all classes, and is pretty hard to play very good.

[BEETLEjay.2459]

> @"ZeftheWicked.3076" said:

> Mesmer - you have to focu.....**LIKE HELL I'M PLAYING A PROFFESION WITH PINK BUTTERFLIES!!!**

>

> And now you know why i can't master mesmer...

 

Yeah! They should be black butterflies, like Tyki Mikk! ?

 

 

> 

 

[Vagrant.7206]

> @"Buran.3796" said:

> > @"Lily.1935" said:

> > I don't know why people thing revenant is hard to play. It's one of the easiest classes to play ever. It's so easy I figured it out day one. Unless you're trying to heal. Than it is difficult. But even that doesn't compare to scourge or healing scrapper.

> I can understand that some people choses Eles as the hardest to play because they use a lot of skills and a bad rotation or mistake can kill them very fast, but Engineer is a stealth class, in a game in which stealth is the strongest skill. Classes with broad access to stealth are easy mode.

 

Engineer is a "stealth class"?

 

There only two skills which directly apply stealth on engineer, and they each consume a valuable utility slot: Throw Elixir S and Stealth Gyro. Stealth gyro requires scrapper and consumes the valuable elite slot, and throw elixir S lasts for about 4 seconds. The only other way to get stealth on an engineer is blast/leaping smoking fields, which any other class can do as well. Engineer can potentially provide three smoke fields: Smoke screen (very situational and not reliable), autodefense bomb dispenser (a smoke bomb on stun), and smoke bomb.

 

Ranger has similar access to stealth that engineer has, and it's even built into one of their weapons too.

[coro.3176]

As others have said, it's probably Core Condi Engi for PvE dps with honourable mention to Weaver.

 

For PvP, it's probably Revenant, due to its kill-or-be-killed playstyle with few defensive/cleanse options and basically no escapes. The actual play of the class is pretty easy, but it's not very forgiving of mistakes.

 

Oh, and for WvW, I'd say Thief in any kind of medium-large fight. Trying to get in melee range in the middle of countless AoEs is rough when a single hit from most classes will insta-down you.

[Hoodie.1045]

Engineer, hands down. It is without a doubt the most complex and difficult profession in the game. Elementalist is a difficult profession, but it is only second best. If you know me, you'll know that I am of course talking about core engineer and not that pathetic excuse of an engineer specialization the Holosmith.

 

Core engineer and the Scrapper are the intelligent fighters who use their inventions, kits and gadgets wisely to overcome and defeat their opponents.

The Holosmith is the one who says that he studied the arts of engineering, but really he's just that random drunk swings his weapon like Star Wars Kid.

[Buran.3796]

> @"Lily.1935" said:

> > @"Buran.3796" said:

> > > @"Lily.1935" said:

> > Revenant is a really simplistic class to play. Its tricks are straightforward and its rotation doesn't require much thought. I play revenant when I need a break from the more difficult rotations on Scourge and Engineer. Its my relax class. Warrior is too simplistic for me.

> >

> > I have the same w/l ratio in the 1482 PvP matches played with my Rev as in the 28 played with my Necro, which can be played sucessfully hitting the keyboard with the forehead (only Mesmer is easier). Necro has more base HP, an extra life bar, more cc, larger AoEs and if specced to condi damage can run 2 defensive stats, not to mention that as happens with most of classes, has full freedom to combine its skills, whereas Rev uses fixed skills. Even worse, only one build (Glint + Shiro with axe+X/staff) had remained somewhat viable in 2.5 years since the arrival of the class , so everyone facing Rev knowns exactly its strenghts and weakness. Engineers are a mix between the rotation system from Eles but with the mobility and passive lifesavers of a Warrior (plus access to stealth). I'm not sayin that isn't the easiest class to master (I'll put in the top three) but Eles and Revs are harder.

>

> Nuh dude. Revenant is super easy. Two heal skills, 10 second stun breaks, or no recharge at all, tones of extra toughness. The meta in PvP currently is Condi focused but if it were to shift to power, rev would be at the top. Its just a bad time for you in PvP, this doesn't mean its hard to play. Because it isn't. Its really freakin easy.

 

Two heal skills? You mean the one which barely heals you if the enemy choses to not attack the next 3 seconds, and the one which doesn't heal you if your foe evades/blocks/blinds you or just activates an invuln? In both cases the base healing is pathetic and against decent players is expected to provide sub-optimal performance. So yeah, you have to half-healings each 30 seconds which become two quarter-healings due is your enemy the one which determines how effective they are (by the way: if your enemy is triggering Infuse Light or eating Enchanted Daggers the chances are that is such baddie that probably you don't need the heals, so you have two heals vs bad players and none vs good players).

 

And you're talking about stunbreaks through legend swapping, but you forget that that change is oftenly situational, due weapon skills do cost energy. So you have to chose between stop attacking to save the breakstun while waiting energy refill, or to change the legend to use skills and waste a breakstun. It has a cost of opportunity. Plus, don't se the "tons of extra thoughness", most of Revs in PvP or WvW roaming do move between 2200-2500 total armor, which for a "heavy plates" character is laughlable (but makes sense because armor does nothing in a game in which most of the damage comes from conditions, so points put there are a waste).

 

Revs are harder to play than Engieneers and a proof of that is the lower number of the former playing in platinum and up. The only half-decent build is 2.5 years old and their role as +1 marauder is way better covered by Thieves, Mesmers, Rangers and even Engineers.

[Lily.1935]

> @"Buran.3796" said:

> > @"Lily.1935" said:

> > > @"Buran.3796" said:

> > > > @"Lily.1935" said:

> > > Revenant is a really simplistic class to play. Its tricks are straightforward and its rotation doesn't require much thought. I play revenant when I need a break from the more difficult rotations on Scourge and Engineer. Its my relax class. Warrior is too simplistic for me.

> > >

> > > I have the same w/l ratio in the 1482 PvP matches played with my Rev as in the 28 played with my Necro, which can be played sucessfully hitting the keyboard with the forehead (only Mesmer is easier). Necro has more base HP, an extra life bar, more cc, larger AoEs and if specced to condi damage can run 2 defensive stats, not to mention that as happens with most of classes, has full freedom to combine its skills, whereas Rev uses fixed skills. Even worse, only one build (Glint + Shiro with axe+X/staff) had remained somewhat viable in 2.5 years since the arrival of the class , so everyone facing Rev knowns exactly its strenghts and weakness. Engineers are a mix between the rotation system from Eles but with the mobility and passive lifesavers of a Warrior (plus access to stealth). I'm not sayin that isn't the easiest class to master (I'll put in the top three) but Eles and Revs are harder.

> >

> > Nuh dude. Revenant is super easy. Two heal skills, 10 second stun breaks, or no recharge at all, tones of extra toughness. The meta in PvP currently is Condi focused but if it were to shift to power, rev would be at the top. Its just a bad time for you in PvP, this doesn't mean its hard to play. Because it isn't. Its really freakin easy.

>

> Two heal skills? You mean the one which barely heals you if the enemy choses to not attack the next 3 seconds, and the one which doesn't heal you if your foe evades/blocks/blinds you or just activates an invuln? In both cases the base healing is pathetic and against decent players is expected to provide sub-optimal performance. So yeah, you have to half-healings each 30 seconds which become two quarter-healings due is your enemy the one which determines how effective they are (by the way: if your enemy is triggering Infuse Light or eating Enchanted Daggers the chances are that is such baddie that probably you don't need the heals, so you have two heals vs bad players and none vs good players).

>

> And you're talking about stunbreaks through legend swapping, but you forget that that change is oftenly situational, due weapon skills do cost energy. So you have to chose between stop attacking to save the breakstun while waiting energy refill, or to change the legend to use skills and waste a breakstun. It has a cost of opportunity. Plus, don't se the "tons of extra thoughness", most of Revs in PvP or WvW roaming do move between 2200-2500 total armor, which for a "heavy plates" character is laughlable (but makes sense because armor does nothing in a game in which most of the damage comes from conditions, so points put there are a waste).

>

> Revs are harder to play than Engieneers and a proof of that is the lower number of the former playing in platinum and up. The only half-decent build is 2.5 years old and their role as +1 marauder is way better covered by Thieves, Mesmers, Rangers and even Engineers.

 

Just because a meta is designed to counter a profession doesn't mean the profession itself is hard to play. Hell your arguments can almost all apply to the necromancer a few years back. The meta was almost designed to crush necromancers but that didn't make them hard to play. And number of people playing a class doesn't quite work for rev to indicate how easy it is to play. Remember it was years before rev was introduced to the game so a majority of the player base had already established their main.

[Nimon.7840]

> @"Vagrant.7206" said:

> > @"Buran.3796" said:

> > > @"Lily.1935" said:

> > > I don't know why people thing revenant is hard to play. It's one of the easiest classes to play ever. It's so easy I figured it out day one. Unless you're trying to heal. Than it is difficult. But even that doesn't compare to scourge or healing scrapper.

> > I can understand that some people choses Eles as the hardest to play because they use a lot of skills and a bad rotation or mistake can kill them very fast, but Engineer is a stealth class, in a game in which stealth is the strongest skill. Classes with broad access to stealth are easy mode.

>

> Engineer is a "stealth class"?

>

> There only two skills which directly apply stealth on engineer, and they each consume a valuable utility slot: Throw Elixir S and Stealth Gyro. Stealth gyro requires scrapper and consumes the valuable elite slot, and throw elixir S lasts for about 4 seconds. The only other way to get stealth on an engineer is blast/leaping smoking fields, which any other class can do as well.

 

Wanna talk about necro? XD

 

>Engineer can potentially provide three smoke fields: Smoke screen (very situational and not reliable), autodefense bomb dispenser (a smoke bomb on stun), and smoke bomb.

>

> Ranger has similar access to stealth that engineer has, and it's even built into one of their weapons too.

 

 

[ProtoGunner.4953]

It was more or less a tie between Engi and Ele (Reaver). It's the off screen cooldowns htat make it hard, especially if alacrity is involved. Other games let you see the CDs of your non-usable skills and GW2 should make the same. It's fucking stupid and I really hate that they won't let us customize the damn GUI, so we can have as many skill slots as we want (additionally for food, gizmos etc.)

[InsaneQR.7412]

> @"BEETLEjay.2459" said:

> > @"ZeftheWicked.3076" said:

> > Mesmer - you have to focu.....**LIKE HELL I'M PLAYING A PROFFESION WITH PINK BUTTERFLIES!!!**

> >

> > And now you know why i can't master mesmer...

>

> Yeah! They should be black butterflies, like Tyki Mikk! ?

>

>

> > 

>

 

Wish they would finally continue the Anime >.>

Reading the manga is killing my budget >.<

 

Back on topic: mesmer is actually quiet difgicult to master perfectly, its easier to start out than ele or engi but IMO its skillcap is higher hust due to the different skill tricks you can do.

[Buran.3796]

> @"InsaneQR.7412" said:

 

>

> Back on topic: mesmer is actually quiet difgicult to master perfectly, its easier to start out than ele or engi but IMO its skillcap is higher hust due to the different skill tricks you can do.

 

Is not and never will be because Mesmer has broad access to stealth, which means that out of nowhere can start chains of stuns and burst capable to either delete your foe or force them to deplete most of their active defenses, leaving them as a extremely weakened prey. So is like going to a sports competition with free access to PEDs while the other contenders remains tested. And in the case of conditions builds, confussion is the cheapest and the lowest in the scale of dignity. A tool designed to prevent the other players to play, stacked from invisibility.

 

Mesmer is just another way to say "cheatcode" in this game.

[InsaneQR.7412]

> @"Buran.3796" said:

> > @"InsaneQR.7412" said:

>

> >

> > Back on topic: mesmer is actually quiet difgicult to master perfectly, its easier to start out than ele or engi but IMO its skillcap is higher hust due to the different skill tricks you can do.

>

> Is not and never will be because Mesmer has broad access to stealth, which means that out of nowhere can start chains of stuns and burst capable to either delete your foe or force them to deplete most of their active defenses, leaving them as a extremely weakened prey. So is like going to a sports competition with free access to PEDs while the other contenders remains tested. And in the case of conditions builds, confussion is the cheapest and the lowest in the scale of dignity. A tool designed to prevent the other players to play, stacked from invisibility.

>

> Mesmer is just another way to say "cheatcode" in this game.

 

Well i talked about maximum skillcap not how hard it is to get into it or play good .

Mesmer has many in animation teleports, animation cancels skill prolongation and movement tricks other classes do not have to such an extend or at all.

Ofc ele and engi are harder to play but mastering all mesmer tricks is IMO more difficult than plaxing an ele good, just because it needs such horrendous amounts of timing.

Everything else can be boiled down to rotation and kiting skills which will be mastered at somepoint regardless of which class you play.

 

[Vagrant.7206]

> @"InsaneQR.7412" said:

> > @"Buran.3796" said:

> > > @"InsaneQR.7412" said:

> >

> > >

> > > Back on topic: mesmer is actually quiet difgicult to master perfectly, its easier to start out than ele or engi but IMO its skillcap is higher hust due to the different skill tricks you can do.

> >

> > Is not and never will be because Mesmer has broad access to stealth, which means that out of nowhere can start chains of stuns and burst capable to either delete your foe or force them to deplete most of their active defenses, leaving them as a extremely weakened prey. So is like going to a sports competition with free access to PEDs while the other contenders remains tested. And in the case of conditions builds, confussion is the cheapest and the lowest in the scale of dignity. A tool designed to prevent the other players to play, stacked from invisibility.

> >

> > Mesmer is just another way to say "cheatcode" in this game.

>

> Ofc **ele and engi are harder to play** but mastering all mesmer tricks is IMO more difficult than plaxing an ele good, just because it needs such horrendous amounts of timing.

 

Poll title: "Hardest Profession Profession (sic) to play"

 

Mastery of any class is difficult. You say mastery of mesmer is hard because of timing. What if I told you that mastering an engineer is even harder, because it also has specific timing?

[InsaneQR.7412]

> @"Vagrant.7206" said:

> > @"InsaneQR.7412" said:

> > > @"Buran.3796" said:

> > > > @"InsaneQR.7412" said:

> > >

> > > >

> > > > Back on topic: mesmer is actually quiet difgicult to master perfectly, its easier to start out than ele or engi but IMO its skillcap is higher hust due to the different skill tricks you can do.

> > >

> > > Is not and never will be because Mesmer has broad access to stealth, which means that out of nowhere can start chains of stuns and burst capable to either delete your foe or force them to deplete most of their active defenses, leaving them as a extremely weakened prey. So is like going to a sports competition with free access to PEDs while the other contenders remains tested. And in the case of conditions builds, confussion is the cheapest and the lowest in the scale of dignity. A tool designed to prevent the other players to play, stacked from invisibility.

> > >

> > > Mesmer is just another way to say "cheatcode" in this game.

> >

> > Ofc **ele and engi are harder to play** but mastering all mesmer tricks is IMO more difficult than plaxing an ele good, just because it needs such horrendous amounts of timing.

>

> Poll title: "Hardest Profession Profession (sic) to play"

>

> Mastery of any class is difficult. You say mastery of mesmer is hard because of timing. What if I told you that mastering an engineer is even harder, because it also has specific timing?

 

Well this statement is totally valid because how hard a profession is or how hard it is to get the real hang of it is in the end individual.

Personally i did not have any problems with engi rotations, felt like a different ele to me with some more quirks and ele itself i am pretty fluent in. Ofc i can play mesmer fluently but i most often screw up on the advanced stuff which i hadnt issues with other professions to such a degree.

This poll is totally represantitive because many ppl struggle with ele or engi, i dont. I had most issues with mesmer high end stuff, especially when chrono F5 us involved.

[steki.1478]

> @"Vagrant.7206" said:

> > @"InsaneQR.7412" said:

> > > @"Buran.3796" said:

> > > > @"InsaneQR.7412" said:

> > >

> > > >

> > > > Back on topic: mesmer is actually quiet difgicult to master perfectly, its easier to start out than ele or engi but IMO its skillcap is higher hust due to the different skill tricks you can do.

> > >

> > > Is not and never will be because Mesmer has broad access to stealth, which means that out of nowhere can start chains of stuns and burst capable to either delete your foe or force them to deplete most of their active defenses, leaving them as a extremely weakened prey. So is like going to a sports competition with free access to PEDs while the other contenders remains tested. And in the case of conditions builds, confussion is the cheapest and the lowest in the scale of dignity. A tool designed to prevent the other players to play, stacked from invisibility.

> > >

> > > Mesmer is just another way to say "cheatcode" in this game.

> >

> > Ofc **ele and engi are harder to play** but mastering all mesmer tricks is IMO more difficult than plaxing an ele good, just because it needs such horrendous amounts of timing.

>

> Poll title: "Hardest Profession Profession (sic) to play"

>

> Mastery of any class is difficult. You say mastery of mesmer is hard because of timing. What if I told you that mastering an engineer is even harder, because it also has specific timing?

 

What if I told you that engi can have enough sustain, cc and damage with only one kit/forge, but ele cant with only one attunement?

[Vagrant.7206]

> @"steki.1478" said:

> > @"Vagrant.7206" said:

> > > @"InsaneQR.7412" said:

> > > > @"Buran.3796" said:

> > > > > @"InsaneQR.7412" said:

> > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Back on topic: mesmer is actually quiet difgicult to master perfectly, its easier to start out than ele or engi but IMO its skillcap is higher hust due to the different skill tricks you can do.

> > > >

> > > > Is not and never will be because Mesmer has broad access to stealth, which means that out of nowhere can start chains of stuns and burst capable to either delete your foe or force them to deplete most of their active defenses, leaving them as a extremely weakened prey. So is like going to a sports competition with free access to PEDs while the other contenders remains tested. And in the case of conditions builds, confussion is the cheapest and the lowest in the scale of dignity. A tool designed to prevent the other players to play, stacked from invisibility.

> > > >

> > > > Mesmer is just another way to say "cheatcode" in this game.

> > >

> > > Ofc **ele and engi are harder to play** but mastering all mesmer tricks is IMO more difficult than plaxing an ele good, just because it needs such horrendous amounts of timing.

> >

> > Poll title: "Hardest Profession Profession (sic) to play"

> >

> > Mastery of any class is difficult. You say mastery of mesmer is hard because of timing. What if I told you that mastering an engineer is even harder, because it also has specific timing?

>

> What if I told you that engi can have enough sustain, cc and damage with only one kit/forge, but ele cant with only one attunement?

 

You do know that we have to use utility slots for kits right? You get them on your F1-F4, plus you can summon extra weapons should you have the need. ;)

 

Forge is also different from a kit. Many traits that affect kits do not affect forge, and vice versa.

[steki.1478]

> @"Vagrant.7206" said:

> > @"steki.1478" said:

> > > @"Vagrant.7206" said:

> > > > @"InsaneQR.7412" said:

> > > > > @"Buran.3796" said:

> > > > > > @"InsaneQR.7412" said:

> > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Back on topic: mesmer is actually quiet difgicult to master perfectly, its easier to start out than ele or engi but IMO its skillcap is higher hust due to the different skill tricks you can do.

> > > > >

> > > > > Is not and never will be because Mesmer has broad access to stealth, which means that out of nowhere can start chains of stuns and burst capable to either delete your foe or force them to deplete most of their active defenses, leaving them as a extremely weakened prey. So is like going to a sports competition with free access to PEDs while the other contenders remains tested. And in the case of conditions builds, confussion is the cheapest and the lowest in the scale of dignity. A tool designed to prevent the other players to play, stacked from invisibility.

> > > > >

> > > > > Mesmer is just another way to say "cheatcode" in this game.

> > > >

> > > > Ofc **ele and engi are harder to play** but mastering all mesmer tricks is IMO more difficult than plaxing an ele good, just because it needs such horrendous amounts of timing.

> > >

> > > Poll title: "Hardest Profession Profession (sic) to play"

> > >

> > > Mastery of any class is difficult. You say mastery of mesmer is hard because of timing. What if I told you that mastering an engineer is even harder, because it also has specific timing?

> >

> > What if I told you that engi can have enough sustain, cc and damage with only one kit/forge, but ele cant with only one attunement?

>

> You do know that we have to use utility slots for kits right? You get them on your F1-F4, plus you can summon extra weapons should you have the need. ;)

>

> Forge is also different from a kit. Many traits that affect kits do not affect forge, and vice versa.

 

You dont use more than 2 kits per build though, besides on pve condi build. Kits also have no cooldowns and your F skill from kit is basically like utility skill. Conjureds also take utility slot, but they also have cast time, cooldown and are placable aoe. You also dont use any outside of pve (for actual combat).

 

My point with forge was additional set of weapon skills. You dont need more than 2 of those to be effective on engi. So all kit juggling and complexity becomes irrelevant.

[maddoctor.2738]

It all depends on the game mode you are playing, but overall I'd say Elementalist. Hard rotations to get the same results as others, really squishy, relies on team mates for everything, without them the survival rate drops to bottom tier compared to any and every other profession.

[Vagrant.7206]

> @"steki.1478" said:

> > @"Vagrant.7206" said:

> > > @"steki.1478" said:

> > > > @"Vagrant.7206" said:

> > > > > @"InsaneQR.7412" said:

> > > > > > @"Buran.3796" said:

> > > > > > > @"InsaneQR.7412" said:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Back on topic: mesmer is actually quiet difgicult to master perfectly, its easier to start out than ele or engi but IMO its skillcap is higher hust due to the different skill tricks you can do.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Is not and never will be because Mesmer has broad access to stealth, which means that out of nowhere can start chains of stuns and burst capable to either delete your foe or force them to deplete most of their active defenses, leaving them as a extremely weakened prey. So is like going to a sports competition with free access to PEDs while the other contenders remains tested. And in the case of conditions builds, confussion is the cheapest and the lowest in the scale of dignity. A tool designed to prevent the other players to play, stacked from invisibility.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Mesmer is just another way to say "cheatcode" in this game.

> > > > >

> > > > > Ofc **ele and engi are harder to play** but mastering all mesmer tricks is IMO more difficult than plaxing an ele good, just because it needs such horrendous amounts of timing.

> > > >

> > > > Poll title: "Hardest Profession Profession (sic) to play"

> > > >

> > > > Mastery of any class is difficult. You say mastery of mesmer is hard because of timing. What if I told you that mastering an engineer is even harder, because it also has specific timing?

> > >

> > > What if I told you that engi can have enough sustain, cc and damage with only one kit/forge, but ele cant with only one attunement?

> >

> > You do know that we have to use utility slots for kits right? You get them on your F1-F4, plus you can summon extra weapons should you have the need. ;)

> >

> > Forge is also different from a kit. Many traits that affect kits do not affect forge, and vice versa.

>

> You dont use more than 2 kits per build though, besides on pve condi build. Kits also have no cooldowns and your F skill from kit is basically like utility skill. Conjureds also take utility slot, but they also have cast time, cooldown and are placable aoe. You also dont use any outside of pve (for actual combat).

>

> My point with forge was additional set of weapon skills. You dont need more than 2 of those to be effective on engi. So all kit juggling and complexity becomes irrelevant.

 

Other builds use more than just 2 kits. Healer scrapper uses 3, and core condi engi also uses 4 kits, as you mentioned. The lack of a cooldown is because engineer doesn't have any other way to swap weapon skills, and we have to sacrifice the utility skill to have the kit. The toolbelt skill that you mentioned is not changeable. It comes with the kit. If you have to have the kit on your build, you have to have whatever toolbelt skill accompanies. You don't get to divorce from either one.

 

And there are kits used in pvp all the time -- namely elixir gun, and to a lesser extent, tool kit. The trouble is that even those skills aren't that strong, they just have enough utility to merit their use. Bomb kit and grenade kit are very difficult to use well in a competitive setting given their wonky usage.

 

We also only have 3 core weapons (most of which are laughably bad), so we're kind of obligated into using kits. There was a period of time prior to PoF where I hadn't seen any of my other utilities in PvE for years. I was running 4-kit condi that whole time, because it was the only way to eke out enough DPS to compete.

[steki.1478]

> @"Vagrant.7206" said:

> > @"steki.1478" said:

> > > @"Vagrant.7206" said:

> > > > @"steki.1478" said:

> > > > > @"Vagrant.7206" said:

> > > > > > @"InsaneQR.7412" said:

> > > > > > > @"Buran.3796" said:

> > > > > > > > @"InsaneQR.7412" said:

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Back on topic: mesmer is actually quiet difgicult to master perfectly, its easier to start out than ele or engi but IMO its skillcap is higher hust due to the different skill tricks you can do.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Is not and never will be because Mesmer has broad access to stealth, which means that out of nowhere can start chains of stuns and burst capable to either delete your foe or force them to deplete most of their active defenses, leaving them as a extremely weakened prey. So is like going to a sports competition with free access to PEDs while the other contenders remains tested. And in the case of conditions builds, confussion is the cheapest and the lowest in the scale of dignity. A tool designed to prevent the other players to play, stacked from invisibility.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Mesmer is just another way to say "cheatcode" in this game.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Ofc **ele and engi are harder to play** but mastering all mesmer tricks is IMO more difficult than plaxing an ele good, just because it needs such horrendous amounts of timing.

> > > > >

> > > > > Poll title: "Hardest Profession Profession (sic) to play"

> > > > >

> > > > > Mastery of any class is difficult. You say mastery of mesmer is hard because of timing. What if I told you that mastering an engineer is even harder, because it also has specific timing?

> > > >

> > > > What if I told you that engi can have enough sustain, cc and damage with only one kit/forge, but ele cant with only one attunement?

> > >

> > > You do know that we have to use utility slots for kits right? You get them on your F1-F4, plus you can summon extra weapons should you have the need. ;)

> > >

> > > Forge is also different from a kit. Many traits that affect kits do not affect forge, and vice versa.

> >

> > You dont use more than 2 kits per build though, besides on pve condi build. Kits also have no cooldowns and your F skill from kit is basically like utility skill. Conjureds also take utility slot, but they also have cast time, cooldown and are placable aoe. You also dont use any outside of pve (for actual combat).

> >

> > My point with forge was additional set of weapon skills. You dont need more than 2 of those to be effective on engi. So all kit juggling and complexity becomes irrelevant.

>

> Other builds use more than just 2 kits. Healer scrapper uses 3, and core condi engi also uses 4 kits, as you mentioned. The lack of a cooldown is because engineer doesn't have any other way to swap weapon skills, and we have to sacrifice the utility skill to have the kit. The toolbelt skill that you mentioned is not changeable. It comes with the kit. If you have to have the kit on your build, you have to have whatever toolbelt skill accompanies. You don't get to divorce from either one.

>

> And there are kits used in pvp all the time -- namely elixir gun, and to a lesser extent, tool kit. The trouble is that even those skills aren't that strong, they just have enough utility to merit their use. Bomb kit and grenade kit are very difficult to use well in a competitive setting given their wonky usage.

>

> We also only have 3 core weapons (most of which are laughably bad), so we're kind of obligated into using kits. There was a period of time prior to PoF where I hadn't seen any of my other utilities in PvE for years. I was running 4-kit condi that whole time, because it was the only way to eke out enough DPS to compete.

 

That's all true, but almost none of that has to do anything with complexity.

[Nimon.7840]

> @"steki.1478" said:

> > @"Vagrant.7206" said:

> > > @"steki.1478" said:

> > > > @"Vagrant.7206" said:

> > > > > @"steki.1478" said:

> > > > > > @"Vagrant.7206" said:

> > > > > > > @"InsaneQR.7412" said:

> > > > > > > > @"Buran.3796" said:

> > > > > > > > > @"InsaneQR.7412" said:

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Back on topic: mesmer is actually quiet difgicult to master perfectly, its easier to start out than ele or engi but IMO its skillcap is higher hust due to the different skill tricks you can do.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Is not and never will be because Mesmer has broad access to stealth, which means that out of nowhere can start chains of stuns and burst capable to either delete your foe or force them to deplete most of their active defenses, leaving them as a extremely weakened prey. So is like going to a sports competition with free access to PEDs while the other contenders remains tested. And in the case of conditions builds, confussion is the cheapest and the lowest in the scale of dignity. A tool designed to prevent the other players to play, stacked from invisibility.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Mesmer is just another way to say "cheatcode" in this game.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Ofc **ele and engi are harder to play** but mastering all mesmer tricks is IMO more difficult than plaxing an ele good, just because it needs such horrendous amounts of timing.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Poll title: "Hardest Profession Profession (sic) to play"

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Mastery of any class is difficult. You say mastery of mesmer is hard because of timing. What if I told you that mastering an engineer is even harder, because it also has specific timing?

> > > > >

> > > > > What if I told you that engi can have enough sustain, cc and damage with only one kit/forge, but ele cant with only one attunement?

> > > >

> > > > You do know that we have to use utility slots for kits right? You get them on your F1-F4, plus you can summon extra weapons should you have the need. ;)

> > > >

> > > > Forge is also different from a kit. Many traits that affect kits do not affect forge, and vice versa.

> > >

> > > You dont use more than 2 kits per build though, besides on pve condi build. Kits also have no cooldowns and your F skill from kit is basically like utility skill. Conjureds also take utility slot, but they also have cast time, cooldown and are placable aoe. You also dont use any outside of pve (for actual combat).

> > >

> > > My point with forge was additional set of weapon skills. You dont need more than 2 of those to be effective on engi. So all kit juggling and complexity becomes irrelevant.

> >

> > Other builds use more than just 2 kits. Healer scrapper uses 3, and core condi engi also uses 4 kits, as you mentioned. The lack of a cooldown is because engineer doesn't have any other way to swap weapon skills, and we have to sacrifice the utility skill to have the kit. The toolbelt skill that you mentioned is not changeable. It comes with the kit. If you have to have the kit on your build, you have to have whatever toolbelt skill accompanies. You don't get to divorce from either one.

> >

> > And there are kits used in pvp all the time -- namely elixir gun, and to a lesser extent, tool kit. The trouble is that even those skills aren't that strong, they just have enough utility to merit their use. Bomb kit and grenade kit are very difficult to use well in a competitive setting given their wonky usage.

> >

> > We also only have 3 core weapons (most of which are laughably bad), so we're kind of obligated into using kits. There was a period of time prior to PoF where I hadn't seen any of my other utilities in PvE for years. I was running 4-kit condi that whole time, because it was the only way to eke out enough DPS to compete.

>

> That's all true, but almost none of that has to do anything with complexity.

 

It does. As kits are weapon swaps, you waste time swapping to a kit, because you need a certain skill. If the skill is ready, good for you, if not = wasted time in a fight

 

It's the exact same thing with ele.

 

If we extend this, firebrand books, basically everything that equips you some kind of "weapon".

 

necro death and reapershroud (which is much more critical due to it being the only real defense and you put it on a 10 second cd if you want to use offensive skill, but it's still on cd)

 

 

[steki.1478]

> @"Nimon.7840" said:

> > @"steki.1478" said:

> > > @"Vagrant.7206" said:

> > > > @"steki.1478" said:

> > > > > @"Vagrant.7206" said:

> > > > > > @"steki.1478" said:

> > > > > > > @"Vagrant.7206" said:

> > > > > > > > @"InsaneQR.7412" said:

> > > > > > > > > @"Buran.3796" said:

> > > > > > > > > > @"InsaneQR.7412" said:

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Back on topic: mesmer is actually quiet difgicult to master perfectly, its easier to start out than ele or engi but IMO its skillcap is higher hust due to the different skill tricks you can do.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Is not and never will be because Mesmer has broad access to stealth, which means that out of nowhere can start chains of stuns and burst capable to either delete your foe or force them to deplete most of their active defenses, leaving them as a extremely weakened prey. So is like going to a sports competition with free access to PEDs while the other contenders remains tested. And in the case of conditions builds, confussion is the cheapest and the lowest in the scale of dignity. A tool designed to prevent the other players to play, stacked from invisibility.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Mesmer is just another way to say "cheatcode" in this game.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Ofc **ele and engi are harder to play** but mastering all mesmer tricks is IMO more difficult than plaxing an ele good, just because it needs such horrendous amounts of timing.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Poll title: "Hardest Profession Profession (sic) to play"

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Mastery of any class is difficult. You say mastery of mesmer is hard because of timing. What if I told you that mastering an engineer is even harder, because it also has specific timing?

> > > > > >

> > > > > > What if I told you that engi can have enough sustain, cc and damage with only one kit/forge, but ele cant with only one attunement?

> > > > >

> > > > > You do know that we have to use utility slots for kits right? You get them on your F1-F4, plus you can summon extra weapons should you have the need. ;)

> > > > >

> > > > > Forge is also different from a kit. Many traits that affect kits do not affect forge, and vice versa.

> > > >

> > > > You dont use more than 2 kits per build though, besides on pve condi build. Kits also have no cooldowns and your F skill from kit is basically like utility skill. Conjureds also take utility slot, but they also have cast time, cooldown and are placable aoe. You also dont use any outside of pve (for actual combat).

> > > >

> > > > My point with forge was additional set of weapon skills. You dont need more than 2 of those to be effective on engi. So all kit juggling and complexity becomes irrelevant.

> > >

> > > Other builds use more than just 2 kits. Healer scrapper uses 3, and core condi engi also uses 4 kits, as you mentioned. The lack of a cooldown is because engineer doesn't have any other way to swap weapon skills, and we have to sacrifice the utility skill to have the kit. The toolbelt skill that you mentioned is not changeable. It comes with the kit. If you have to have the kit on your build, you have to have whatever toolbelt skill accompanies. You don't get to divorce from either one.

> > >

> > > And there are kits used in pvp all the time -- namely elixir gun, and to a lesser extent, tool kit. The trouble is that even those skills aren't that strong, they just have enough utility to merit their use. Bomb kit and grenade kit are very difficult to use well in a competitive setting given their wonky usage.

> > >

> > > We also only have 3 core weapons (most of which are laughably bad), so we're kind of obligated into using kits. There was a period of time prior to PoF where I hadn't seen any of my other utilities in PvE for years. I was running 4-kit condi that whole time, because it was the only way to eke out enough DPS to compete.

> >

> > That's all true, but almost none of that has to do anything with complexity.

>

> It does. As kits are weapon swaps, you waste time swapping to a kit, because you need a certain skill. If the skill is ready, good for you, if not = wasted time in a fight

>

> It's the exact same thing with ele.

>

> If we extend this, firebrand books, basically everything that equips you some kind of "weapon".

>

> necro death and reapershroud (which is much more critical due to it being the only real defense and you put it on a 10 second cd if you want to use offensive skill, but it's still on cd)

>

>

 

Except the part where every class works that way, but kits have no cooldown, no cast time and they dont cancel animations. Time wasted on engi is 1 second, time wasted on other classes is 8+ seconds.

 

The only complex part of kits is having hidden cooldowns behind multiple kits, but you dont have multiple kits in most builds.

[MyPuppy.8970]

Ele is not -that- hard, but if you consider efficiency/complexity ratio it is by far the lowest.

[LazySummer.2568]

Engi would've won my vote & was actually my favorite class until holosmith became a thing. Even scrapper requires more thought to play than that spec. They really need to increase the cd of holoforge skills so you can't just pop in and out of it and having your 2~4 (especially #2 & #3) readily available to spam. The overheat trait is also incredibly stupid for pve. The whole point and the main fun of holosmith should be like how it is in pvp -- you try to maintain at least 50% heat at all times without overheating so you can get more damage and enhance your exceed skills.