Duo Queue for Plat 2+? Post SS of your rating

[Legatus.3608]

> @"Solaerin.8635" said:

> > @"Faux Play.6104" said:

> > It is pretty simple math. their team will have 3 open slots. The team that plays them will have 5. So times you are in a match with them 62.5% of the time you will be against them and 37.5 % of the time you will be with them. You are almost twice as likely to be on the short end of the stick.

> >

> You're describing a scenario where there's 10 players queuing for a match and two of them happen to be queued together, and the players are just randomly distributed across the two teams. What happens when you actually account for stuff like how your personal mmr impacts whether you'll be grouped with a particular set of players when a matchmaker tries to create teams with equal average mmrs, how the matchmaker will try to even out the 10 player's respective professions so that they're distributed evenly to the two teams, how a matchmaker will typically tend to place a duo on each team in cases where there are duos in a match? Idk, maybe you're right and if we allow players rated 1600+ to duo together, solo queue players will just be turbo-kitten and lose 62.5% of the time, but I played back when duo queues were allowed and I solo queued without that being a problem

 

Implying that mmr will somehow distribute people to the 3 slots more than the 5 slots, riiight

[Vornollo.5182]

Rating is 1451 at the time of writing this.

Reached higher Platinum in previous seasons though.

 

I just find it really weird to not allow friends to play together.

Yes, low rating players may face them, but hey. That's part of it. It's just another (albeit steep) step on the learning curve.

I personally don't want to farm for rewards or any of that, I play sPvP simply because it's fun and because I want to challenge myself to improve, nothing is quite as exhilarating as winning a close match in this game. Most fun I've had all season (so far) was two days back, winning a game 500 to 498, after having to come back from 368 to 493. Hard work, but it felt so damn good and everyone (yes, all 10) actually commented one another on the well played match. That's how it should be.

That includes sometimes facing the odds. I am of a mind that, you will win, even against these duo's, if you really want to. Because if you really want to, you'll learn from your losses and improve. You'll actually try to become a better player and can actually beat even those people.

Not wanting an equal playing field for everyone in terms of duo queues, is just your own ego and weakness shining through. If you're afraid of facing some platinum+ players, maybe you should look into improving and learning from them.

[kipthelip.5802]

First of all when you d> @"Faux Play.6104" said:

> > @"Solaerin.8635" said:

> > > @"Legatus.3608" said:

> > > None of this stuff is relevant at all. The question was why should players under 1600 vote on duo queues above 1600. **The answer to that question is because they still get queued against those duo teams.**

> > >

> > > The other question about whether the game would be better off with or without duo queues has already been answered by the popular opinion poll.

> > This is brought up a lot, but why does it matter whether or not two of your teammates happen to be grouped together? If there's a really strong duo that's queuing ranked, it's just rng whether they end up on your team or the enemy team, just like it's rng whether or not they end up on your team if they're both solo.

> >

> > Also, his post happens to be extremely relevant, because most people who are 1600+ WANT duo queue, so you may very well see a population increase in pvp for people who are 1600+. If this is the case, plat 1/lower player would be less likely to have people 1600+ in their matches altogether

> >

> >

> It is pretty simple math. their team will have 3 open slots. The team that plays them will have 5. So times you are in a match with them 62.5% of the time you will be against them and 37.5 % of the time you will be with them. You are almost twice as likely to be on the short end of the stick.

>

 

That is countered by the fact when you win in a duo you get less MMR gain then when you are solo and when you lose to a DUO you get less MMR loss. So it washes out in the end. Get on an account that has a MMR that can still duo and do some solo and some duo and you'll quickly see what I mean. All these straw men you anti-group players line up can easily be swept away. Allowing duoing won't stop anyone good from placing high but it might just bring some people back.

[Legatus.3608]

> @"kipthelip.5802" said:

> First of all when you d> @"Faux Play.6104" said:

> > > @"Solaerin.8635" said:

> > > > @"Legatus.3608" said:

> > > > None of this stuff is relevant at all. The question was why should players under 1600 vote on duo queues above 1600. **The answer to that question is because they still get queued against those duo teams.**

> > > >

> > > > The other question about whether the game would be better off with or without duo queues has already been answered by the popular opinion poll.

> > > This is brought up a lot, but why does it matter whether or not two of your teammates happen to be grouped together? If there's a really strong duo that's queuing ranked, it's just rng whether they end up on your team or the enemy team, just like it's rng whether or not they end up on your team if they're both solo.

> > >

> > > Also, his post happens to be extremely relevant, because most people who are 1600+ WANT duo queue, so you may very well see a population increase in pvp for people who are 1600+. If this is the case, plat 1/lower player would be less likely to have people 1600+ in their matches altogether

> > >

> > >

> > It is pretty simple math. their team will have 3 open slots. The team that plays them will have 5. So times you are in a match with them 62.5% of the time you will be against them and 37.5 % of the time you will be with them. You are almost twice as likely to be on the short end of the stick.

> >

>

> That is countered by the fact when you win in a duo you get less MMR gain then when you are solo and when you lose to a DUO you get less MMR loss. So it washes out in the end. Get on an account that has a MMR that can still duo and do some solo and some duo and you'll quickly see what I mean. All these straw men you anti-group players line up can easily be swept away. Allowing duoing won't stop anyone good from placing high but it might just bring some people back.

 

It doesn't quite work that way, you don't gain points for losing more closely, you just lose less points. You're still losing the points.

[Falan.1839]

Guess we need five more threads like this, the options aren't biased enough yet.

 

I don't even care about the leaderboard, but I'm fairly sure it would make the match quality even worse by widening the rating gaps within matches even further. I posted an explanatory vid in the other thread.


 

[Curennos.9307]

PvP in this game has been a joke to varying degrees for quite a while. I highly doubt Anet is ever going to reach a suitable level of balance between classes/builds or quality in matchmaking/leaderboard calcu-whatsits. I see no point in giving up DuoQ/whateverQ in exchange for something that doesn't exist.

[Revilrad.1962]

Same response to other thread which is the same thread as this actually :

 

Can anyone explain it to me why the "pros" complaining about solo queue arent just playing AT? Seriously? There. That is your dream. 5v5. You can get your dream team and go for it.

My Explanation of current state :

ANET introduced A frikkin legendary backpack which takes ages to complete in a ranked gametype. They also time-gated it to oblivion so you need multiple seasons to get it. I seriously think that is the problem. Because the "PvE noobs" you get teamed up with, dont care how the match goes. They just want to get the backpack and gtfo. But the surplus of new players will keep that ranks filled.

I think Anet should introduce a pro leaugue parallel to the normal ranked league. After you reach platinum in normal league, you should Change leagues and go play "there". This new league will have its own pool of players hence the matchmaking wont be pairing people with silver/bronzes because there will be none.

And the gold/silver/bronze players can keep their soloqueue becasue getting stomped by 2 pros communicating via TS gets boring very fast even if you are only farming for a legendary and dont want to continue PvPing.

[Math.5123]

> @"Revilrad.1962" said:

> Same response to other thread which is the same thread as this actually :

>

> Can anyone explain it to me why the "pros" complaining about solo queue arent just playing AT? Seriously? There. That is your dream. 5v5. You can get your dream team and go for it.

> My Explanation of current state :

> ANET introduced A frikkin legendary backpack which takes ages to complete in a ranked gametype. They also time-gated it to oblivion so you need multiple seasons to get it. I seriously think that is the problem. Because the "PvE noobs" you get teamed up with, dont care how the match goes. They just want to get the backpack and gtfo. But the surplus of new players will keep that ranks filled.

> I think Anet should introduce a pro leaugue parallel to the normal ranked league. After you reach platinum in normal league, you should Change leagues and go play "there". This new league will have its own pool of players hence the matchmaking wont be pairing people with silver/bronzes because there will be none.

> And the gold/silver/bronze players can keep their soloqueue becasue getting stomped by 2 pros communicating via TS gets boring very fast even if you are only farming for a legendary and dont want to continue PvPing.

 

The back is almost two (if not already) years old. Basically everyone who wants it has it.

As for ATs, they offer one or two good games every 6 hours. The first couple rounds could be won wearing a blindfold.

[Revilrad.1962]

> @"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

> > @"Revilrad.1962" said:

> > Same response to other thread which is the same thread as this actually :

> >

> > Can anyone explain it to me why the "pros" complaining about solo queue arent just playing AT? Seriously? There. That is your dream. 5v5. You can get your dream team and go for it.

> > My Explanation of current state :

> > ANET introduced A frikkin legendary backpack which takes ages to complete in a ranked gametype. They also time-gated it to oblivion so you need multiple seasons to get it. I seriously think that is the problem. Because the "PvE noobs" you get teamed up with, dont care how the match goes. They just want to get the backpack and gtfo. But the surplus of new players will keep that ranks filled.

> > I think Anet should introduce a pro leaugue parallel to the normal ranked league. After you reach platinum in normal league, you should Change leagues and go play "there". This new league will have its own pool of players hence the matchmaking wont be pairing people with silver/bronzes because there will be none.

> > And the gold/silver/bronze players can keep their soloqueue becasue getting stomped by 2 pros communicating via TS gets boring very fast even if you are only farming for a legendary and dont want to continue PvPing.

>

> The back is almost two (if not already) years old. Basically everyone who wants it has it.

> As for ATs, they offer one or two good games every 6 hours. The first couple rounds could be won wearing a blindfold.

 

But the intoduction of PoF created a surplus of returning and new players who didn't get the Backpack.

[otto.5684]

There is a huge difference between random players queuing together and high skills players doing it. The communication advantage is huge.

 

In addition, There surely is not enough 1600 plus players in the pool. Putting 2 of them in 1 team will result in long wait times as well (assuming the game will try to put 2 equal skilled players on the other team).

 

My current rating is 1591, 11 wins and 4 loses so far.

[Faux Play.6104]

> @"kipthelip.5802" said:

> First of all when you d> @"Faux Play.6104" said:

> > > @"Solaerin.8635" said:

> > > > @"Legatus.3608" said:

> > > > None of this stuff is relevant at all. The question was why should players under 1600 vote on duo queues above 1600. **The answer to that question is because they still get queued against those duo teams.**

> > > >

> > > > The other question about whether the game would be better off with or without duo queues has already been answered by the popular opinion poll.

> > > This is brought up a lot, but why does it matter whether or not two of your teammates happen to be grouped together? If there's a really strong duo that's queuing ranked, it's just rng whether they end up on your team or the enemy team, just like it's rng whether or not they end up on your team if they're both solo.

> > >

> > > Also, his post happens to be extremely relevant, because most people who are 1600+ WANT duo queue, so you may very well see a population increase in pvp for people who are 1600+. If this is the case, plat 1/lower player would be less likely to have people 1600+ in their matches altogether

> > >

> > >

> > It is pretty simple math. their team will have 3 open slots. The team that plays them will have 5. So times you are in a match with them 62.5% of the time you will be against them and 37.5 % of the time you will be with them. You are almost twice as likely to be on the short end of the stick.

> >

>

> That is countered by the fact when you win in a duo you get less MMR gain then when you are solo and when you lose to a DUO you get less MMR loss. So it washes out in the end. Get on an account that has a MMR that can still duo and do some solo and some duo and you'll quickly see what I mean. All these straw men you anti-group players line up can easily be swept away. Allowing duoing won't stop anyone good from placing high but it might just bring some people back.

 

Your rating gain/loss after a match has nothing to do with who you are paired with. It has to do with the average rating of the team you face and your individual rating.

[BadMed.3846]

Yet another meaningless poll. We need option to remove duo queue from ranked queue and not unranked.

[BadMed.3846]

Please stop this unnecessary spamming. Duo queue favourers have not been able to make any valid argument that will actually improve game experience. Most arguments ignore official game format and leaderboard and focus on what suits players and their friends. You've got game modes to enjoy with friends already. Go play those please. Unranked, ATs, World boss trains, ktrains, wvw zergs (get all mates into a zerg). Want hardcore, go do 10 man raids. Leave ranked alone for Solo q.

[BlaqueFyre.5678]

It’s funny that a lot of players still don’t know how the Matchmaker works, if players Duo their skill rating gets artificially inflated for matchmaking purposes to make the opposing team have higher rated players(in the majority of cases).

 

The skill rating gain/loss is solely based on your individual rating vs the opposing teams average rating.

 

The MM is very good at matching extremely close opposing teams average rating wise, those players that duo with their artificially inflated rating get paired with players of much lower rating etc to average out the teams rating.

 

And to those saying Duo Q would exponentially increase the Q times, we had Duo Q and Q times weren’t more than 3-5 mins during normal peak hours.

[BadMed.3846]

> @"BlaqueFyre.5678" said:

> It’s funny that a lot of players still don’t know how the Matchmaker works, if players Duo their skill rating gets artificially inflated for matchmaking purposes to make the opposing team have higher rated players(in the majority of cases).

>

It's even funnier that people don't understand the competitive edge duo queue provides. Matchmaking is not capable of estimating this effect.

 

It's extremely funny that some people just blatantly ignore this fact in favour of determination to wreck another game more and abuse leaderboarbs.

 

It's not at all funny that a duo queue can easily manipulate match outcomes through various unhealthy measures.

 

> The skill rating gain/loss is solely based on your individual rating vs the opposing teams average rating.

 

 

We know how amazing matchmaking is.

You've never come across one sided games?

 

[BlaqueFyre.5678]

> @"BadMed.3846" said:

> > @"BlaqueFyre.5678" said:

> > It’s funny that a lot of players still don’t know how the Matchmaker works, if players Duo their skill rating gets artificially inflated for matchmaking purposes to make the opposing team have higher rated players(in the majority of cases).

> >

> It's even funnier that people don't understand the competitive edge duo queue provides. Matchmaking is not capable of estimating this effect.

>

> It's extremely funny that some people just blatantly ignore this fact in favour of determination to wreck another game more and abuse leaderboarbs.

>

> It's not at all funny that a duo queue can easily manipulate match outcomes through various unhealthy measures.

>

> > The skill rating gain/loss is solely based on your individual rating vs the opposing teams average rating.

>

>

> We know how amazing matchmaking is.

> You've never come across one sided games?

>

 

Again the MM compensates by placing Duo Q players against higher rated players and gives those Duo Q players worse teammates, they get hit twice for the ability to play with their friend, and again it’s so hilarious that we are quite a few seasons in and players still don’t understand how the MM or Skill Rating actually work. And remember the rating between the two teams has a very low difference between each other.

 

 

One sided games? Not normally unless someone intentionally afk/throws a match, or I am playing at the most complete dead play times like 2am in the morning.

 

TLDR

 

Duo Q players get paired with worse rated players and paired against better rated players.

 

Oh and please explain how Duo Q players can Manipulate match outcome by unhealthy measures, this should be treat to hear.

[otto.5684]

> @"BlaqueFyre.5678" said:

> > @"BadMed.3846" said:

> > > @"BlaqueFyre.5678" said:

> > > It’s funny that a lot of players still don’t know how the Matchmaker works, if players Duo their skill rating gets artificially inflated for matchmaking purposes to make the opposing team have higher rated players(in the majority of cases).

> > >

> > It's even funnier that people don't understand the competitive edge duo queue provides. Matchmaking is not capable of estimating this effect.

> >

> > It's extremely funny that some people just blatantly ignore this fact in favour of determination to wreck another game more and abuse leaderboarbs.

> >

> > It's not at all funny that a duo queue can easily manipulate match outcomes through various unhealthy measures.

> >

> > > The skill rating gain/loss is solely based on your individual rating vs the opposing teams average rating.

> >

> >

> > We know how amazing matchmaking is.

> > You've never come across one sided games?

> >

>

> Again the MM compensates by placing Duo Q players against higher rated players and gives those Duo Q players worse teammates, they get hit twice for the ability to play with their friend, and again it’s so hilarious that we are quite a few seasons in and players still don’t understand how the MM or Skill Rating actually work. And remember the rating between the two teams has a very low difference between each other.

>

>

> One sided games? Not normally unless someone intentionally afk/throws a match, or I am playing at the most complete dead play times like 2am in the morning.

>

> TLDR

>

> Duo Q players get paired with worse rated players and paired against better rated players.

>

> Oh and please explain how Duo Q players can Manipulate match outcome by unhealthy measures, this should be treat to hear.

 

All else held equal, the team with voice communication should win against the team that does not. It is as simple as that. I dunno why people are trying to over complicate things. In addition, there is no evidence that duo players are paired with worse rated players.

 

[BlaqueFyre.5678]

> @"otto.5684" said:

> > @"BlaqueFyre.5678" said:

> > > @"BadMed.3846" said:

> > > > @"BlaqueFyre.5678" said:

> > > > It’s funny that a lot of players still don’t know how the Matchmaker works, if players Duo their skill rating gets artificially inflated for matchmaking purposes to make the opposing team have higher rated players(in the majority of cases).

> > > >

> > > It's even funnier that people don't understand the competitive edge duo queue provides. Matchmaking is not capable of estimating this effect.

> > >

> > > It's extremely funny that some people just blatantly ignore this fact in favour of determination to wreck another game more and abuse leaderboarbs.

> > >

> > > It's not at all funny that a duo queue can easily manipulate match outcomes through various unhealthy measures.

> > >

> > > > The skill rating gain/loss is solely based on your individual rating vs the opposing teams average rating.

> > >

> > >

> > > We know how amazing matchmaking is.

> > > You've never come across one sided games?

> > >

> >

> > Again the MM compensates by placing Duo Q players against higher rated players and gives those Duo Q players worse teammates, they get hit twice for the ability to play with their friend, and again it’s so hilarious that we are quite a few seasons in and players still don’t understand how the MM or Skill Rating actually work. And remember the rating between the two teams has a very low difference between each other.

> >

> >

> > One sided games? Not normally unless someone intentionally afk/throws a match, or I am playing at the most complete dead play times like 2am in the morning.

> >

> > TLDR

> >

> > Duo Q players get paired with worse rated players and paired against better rated players.

> >

> > Oh and please explain how Duo Q players can Manipulate match outcome by unhealthy measures, this should be treat to hear.

>

> All else held equal, the team with voice communication should win against the team that does not. It is as simple as that. I dunno why people are trying to over complicate things. In addition, there is no evidence that duo players are paired with worse rated players.

>

 

Except Ben P has stated how the MM chooses teams with Duos involved.... and states that they inflate the rating of the Duo Players and when they do that it makes their teammates be a lower rating to make the two teams average rating as close as possible....

[BadMed.3846]

> @"BlaqueFyre.5678" said:

> > @"otto.5684" said:

> > > @"BlaqueFyre.5678" said:

> > > > @"BadMed.3846" said:

> > > > > @"BlaqueFyre.5678" said:

> > > > > It’s funny that a lot of players still don’t know how the Matchmaker works, if players Duo their skill rating gets artificially inflated for matchmaking purposes to make the opposing team have higher rated players(in the majority of cases).

> > > > >

> > > > It's even funnier that people don't understand the competitive edge duo queue provides. Matchmaking is not capable of estimating this effect.

> > > >

> > > > It's extremely funny that some people just blatantly ignore this fact in favour of determination to wreck another game more and abuse leaderboarbs.

> > > >

> > > > It's not at all funny that a duo queue can easily manipulate match outcomes through various unhealthy measures.

> > > >

> > > > > The skill rating gain/loss is solely based on your individual rating vs the opposing teams average rating.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > We know how amazing matchmaking is.

> > > > You've never come across one sided games?

> > > >

> > >

> > > Again the MM compensates by placing Duo Q players against higher rated players and gives those Duo Q players worse teammates, they get hit twice for the ability to play with their friend, and again it’s so hilarious that we are quite a few seasons in and players still don’t understand how the MM or Skill Rating actually work. And remember the rating between the two teams has a very low difference between each other.

> > >

> > >

> > > One sided games? Not normally unless someone intentionally afk/throws a match, or I am playing at the most complete dead play times like 2am in the morning.

> > >

> > > TLDR

> > >

> > > Duo Q players get paired with worse rated players and paired against better rated players.

> > >

> > > Oh and please explain how Duo Q players can Manipulate match outcome by unhealthy measures, this should be treat to hear.

> >

> > All else held equal, the team with voice communication should win against the team that does not. It is as simple as that. I dunno why people are trying to over complicate things. In addition, there is no evidence that duo players are paired with worse rated players.

> >

>

> Except Ben P has stated how the MM chooses teams with Duos involved.... and states that they inflate the rating of the Duo Players and when they do that it makes their teammates be a lower rating to make the two teams average rating as close as possible....

 

That as close as possible bit....is where it all ends. It's not even close imo.

[Sinful.2165]

Maybe I should've added another option to the poll 'remove chat box for ranked matches' because apparently communicating is an unfair advantage.

 

As if two people on voice are going to steamroll the enemy by virtue of talking to each other.. the other three people on the team aren't in voice. There still has to be written communication to work together. Any possible advantage that could be garnered from two people in voice can also be had by anyone who pays close attention to the mini map at all times. You can see where the enemy is, you should be watching this even while dead and waiting to respawn so you can make good rotations.

 

Ben has stated that the MMR went from 95% to 99% with the removal of duo queue - but at what cost? 4% increase at the expense of losing a big chunk of population because the only competitive game mode you can jump right into is strictly solo at 1,600+? It would be cool to see the population of when Ben took those numbers versus the population now. Arguably "better" MMR at the expense of fun. Not sure it was worth it.

 

ATs are fun but too far and few between, unranked isn't an option for team play (get real with that argument).

 

Also I won't name names but there's people who vote against this that have absolutely no business voting here. I've spoke to them myself, checked their rating. Interesting how people voting no don't post screen shots of their rating to give them a voice in the matter.

[Felipe.1807]

If people wanna have "fun" and play with friends, I dont see whats the problem with playing on Unranked...anyway, either bring back Teamq, so we have both team and solo queue or just keep everything soloq only.

[shadowpass.4236]

> @"Felipe.1807" said:

> If people wanna have "fun" and play with friends, I dont see whats the problem with playing on Unranked...anyway, either bring back Teamq, so we have both team and solo queue or just keep everything soloq only.

 

Completely steamrolling new players 500-0 in unranked doesn't constitute as fun unless you like standing outside the enemy's spawn for the entire game cause they gave up under 2 minutes.

 

So yeah, that's a problem.

[rank eleven monk.9502]

> @"shadowpass.4236" said:

> > @"Felipe.1807" said:

> > If people wanna have "fun" and play with friends, I dont see whats the problem with playing on Unranked...anyway, either bring back Teamq, so we have both team and solo queue or just keep everything soloq only.

>

> Completely steamrolling new players 500-0 in unranked doesn't constitute as fun unless you like standing outside the enemy's spawn for the entire game cause they gave up under 2 minutes.

>

> So yeah, that's a problem.

 

First, you are not being matched with new players in unranked as it has it's own matchmaking system.

Second, how is steamrolling others 500-0 in ranked more 'fun'?

[Felipe.1807]

> @"shadowpass.4236" said:

> > @"Felipe.1807" said:

> > If people wanna have "fun" and play with friends, I dont see whats the problem with playing on Unranked...anyway, either bring back Teamq, so we have both team and solo queue or just keep everything soloq only.

>

> Completely steamrolling new players 500-0 in unranked doesn't constitute as fun unless you like standing outside the enemy's spawn for the entire game cause they gave up under 2 minutes.

>

> So yeah, that's a problem.

 

I see your point here, but lets be real, you are a top player, you aint gonna queue with your bronze friends(or will you?), you gonna queue with other top players...its just gonna be like AT are, you gonna steamroll most of your matches without trouble, the game dont have enough competitive players to support this, and the ones that are left probably gonna start queue dodging each other, and this had happened before...aint gonna talk about you, but lets be real, most of the "top" players just want easy wins and get their titles and stuff, otherwise, we wouldnt have wintrading be a thing, we wouldnt had queue dodge, people queueing on 4am or something, etc...the most exploited Seasons were when we had the ability to queue with other players, "top" players are the ones responsible for killing any chance of sPvP be something again...remenber the Guilds leaderboards? It was all the same guild, with same players just playing with diferent names lol

[maxwelgm.4315]

I think the _exactly_ current iteration of ranked (this very season) would have been better with duoQ up there on the top. Bear with me here, I'm not saying I want #1 and #2 players kicking ass all day long, but rather that _overall_ quality of matches would probably benefit from often having 2 knowledgeable players that also have a plan to play together on _both_ teams. Matching two duos is great for the other 6 players in most cases, and all you have to do is preventing that 2 duos join the same team in general. Of course it was bonkers to play team and duoQ during bunker meta and other stuff, but in this burst scenario I think matches are just awful without at least 2 people previously coordinating.