Belenwyn.8674 Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 They nerfed arrow carts. On the other side they started to buff the stationary weapons in objects. Reduced damage and immunity to cc skills while operating burning oil is a great and overdue step in the right direction. These traits should be expanded to mortars and cannons as well. The rest is tweaking numbers. Maybe we need 75% damage reduction or olnly 75% to AoE damage. Future will tell it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother.1504 Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 This just encourages super blobbing to leverage the AC hit cap. Should be an interesting next few matches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ubi.4136 Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 The only reason to build superior arrow carts at the moment is to tag mobs. 2 superior arrow carts, attacking a single superior ram, with no one around takes nearly 5 minutes to destroy the ram. If there are players around, it takes longer. You will also notice, with 2 arrow carts it is possible to go about 10 seconds without a single hit, because the other arrow cart is hitting and your shots are hitting sooner than the .5 second dead space in between allowed shots. 3 arrow carts do not decrease the time to kill players or siege, because they will just add to everyone's "no damage time" due to the change. Blobs are now just standing in the door with rams and ktraining through towers because fixed siege is easily destroyed, and arrow carts are useless. I wish this was an exaggeration, but the ktrain "only wanting fights (LOL)" super-blob got their wish granted. Ktrain away oh great warriors, ktrain away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DemonSeed.3528 Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 Told ya superiors would become like even worse versions of normals, and we all know what normal acs were like already. Maybe normals should not exist anymore either, and just have the siege without the "superior" part on the blueprints. So an arrow cart is just an arrow cart, no superior/normal naming convention as normals should be removed because now superiors are worse than previous normals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strider Pj.2193 Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 > @"Timelord.8190" said: > > @"Strider Pj.2193" said: > > > @"Threather.9354" said: > > > Well it was near impossible pushing in SM lord room against certain servers due to spellbreaker bubbles and other defenders advantages. > > > > > > This massive AC nerf will make it slightly easier. as sometimes theres 5-6 acs inside also > > > > I'll give you that. > > > > Again, the nerf for players was good. To seige? Really only rewards bad play. > > Good play is spamming 1-4, am i right? Putting your Cata against the wall makes all the sense in the world Amiright? Check my posts. Never said ACs shouldn't have been nerfed vs players. Seige? Different story. That rewards mindless play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strider Pj.2193 Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 > @"Stand The Wall.6987" said: > > @"Ubi.4136" said: > > They listened to the blob ktrain that "only wanted fights". It was taking the "only wanted fights" blob more than 3 minutes to take T3 structures, according to about every forum post about it, claimed that planning, strategy and actually SIEGING structures was boring, cause "no one wants to stand under arrow carts". > > Now, all those bandwagon, blob, "only wanting fights" servers can continue their ktrain domination. > > apparently most people don't want to face 6 acs when they attack a gate with 20 ppl, which forces them to build trebs, and then the defenders start counter trebbing. so fun. Why trebs? For supply and defense, the DPS of Catas is higher. And the ACs and ballista won't reach. With the exception of Inner keeps/castles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strider Pj.2193 Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 > @"Strider Pj.2193" said: > > @"Timelord.8190" said: > > > @"Strider Pj.2193" said: > > > > @"Threather.9354" said: > > > > Well it was near impossible pushing in SM lord room against certain servers due to spellbreaker bubbles and other defenders advantages. > > > > > > > > This massive AC nerf will make it slightly easier. as sometimes theres 5-6 acs inside also > > > > > > I'll give you that. > > > > > > Again, the nerf for players was good. To seige? Really only rewards bad play. > > > > Good play is spamming 1-4, am i right? > > Putting your Cata against the wall makes all the sense in the world Amiright? > > Check my posts. Never said ACs shouldn't have been nerfed vs players. Seige? Different story. That rewards mindless play. But if you need a training session on how to enter any tower regardless of tier, hit me up in game. I'd be glad to show you how to do it right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reverence.6915 Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 Seems legit. I used to put down catapults under a watchtower just to draw people over for a fight. Too often I'd see an entire zerg then just turtle in the tower with acs and ballistas. This should force them out now. Feelsgoodman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Botinhas.2018 Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 > @"Ubi.4136" said: > I wish this was an exaggeration, but the ktrain "only wanting fights (LOL)" super-blob got their wish granted. Ktrain away oh great warriors, ktrain away. You seem to know a lot about k-train... What about those 20-30 groups trying to get fights or opening a keep, when tehre's 50+ inside manning 6 ac's refusing to come out, cause AC = avoid to fight a player. At least with this nerf the smaller attacking group actually can get a fights. Kitten forbid this WvW/PvP mode to enforce players to fight aggainst eachother, much more fun to keep promoting siege warfare. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Threather.9354 Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 > @"Strider Pj.2193" said: > Check my posts. Never said ACs shouldn't have been nerfed vs players. Seige? Different story. That rewards mindless play. Well Lets be honest, once they added shield gens and t3 walls/gates, long range catas and trebs were made pretty hard to use. Even if you aim some left and some right, only half will hit and you can only place 5 in same spot. Not to mention the catas die pretty easily from enemy blob jumping on them. Now that shield gens dont block treb/mortar fire anymore? Maybe acs didn't deserve a nerf, but rams also got nerfed due to shield gen + ram synergy being gone so guess it is just long range trebbing and catas anyways now. At least you wont get that feeling that you cant do anything alone defending just because they built shield gens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steki.1478 Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 > @"Threather.9354" said: > > @"Strider Pj.2193" said: > > Check my posts. Never said ACs shouldn't have been nerfed vs players. Seige? Different story. That rewards mindless play. > > Well Lets be honest, once they added shield gens and t3 walls/gates, long range catas and trebs were made pretty hard to use. Even if you aim some left and some right, only half will hit and you can only place 5 in same spot. > > Not to mention the catas die pretty easily from enemy blob jumping on them. > > > Now that shield gens dont block treb/mortar fire anymore? Maybe acs didn't deserve a nerf, but rams also got nerfed due to shield gen + ram synergy being gone so guess it is just long range trebbing and catas anyways now. > > At least you wont get that feeling that you cant do anything alone defending just because they built shield gens. Nothing happened to rams. You can still shield people on them, you just need to defend shield gens now as well. Using shields to counter trebs was beyond stupid and mortars/cannons can be cleared with no big issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoxworth.7318 Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 Good tears here. I'm sure 7 acs on SM gate was a good strategy and required alot of IQ :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strider Pj.2193 Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 > @"Threather.9354" said: > > @"Strider Pj.2193" said: > > Check my posts. Never said ACs shouldn't have been nerfed vs players. Seige? Different story. That rewards mindless play. > > Well Lets be honest, once they added shield gens and t3 walls/gates, long range catas and trebs were made pretty hard to use. Even if you aim some left and some right, only half will hit and you can only place 5 in same spot. > > Not to mention the catas die pretty easily from enemy blob jumping on them. > > > Now that shield gens dont block treb/mortar fire anymore? Maybe acs didn't deserve a nerf, but rams also got nerfed due to shield gen + ram synergy being gone so guess it is just long range trebbing and catas anyways now. > > At least you wont get that feeling that you cant do anything alone defending just because they built shield gens. Wait now.., Isn't the point to have enemy blobs show up? It's no slower to be at a distance then it is to be close. They will arrive just as fast if you're close. Splash damage FTW. Hits under much of the shield gens. And if they have shield gens up, does it matter if your close? Nope. STILL no good reason to build close. In fact, for BOTH PPT and Fights oriented groups, distance is better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigpapasmurf.5623 Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 > @"Shagaliscious.6281" said: > . Maybe just looking at the catapult and destroying it? Men who stare at catas FTW! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strider Pj.2193 Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 > @"Botinhas.2018" said: > > @"Ubi.4136" said: > > > I wish this was an exaggeration, but the ktrain "only wanting fights (LOL)" super-blob got their wish granted. Ktrain away oh great warriors, ktrain away. > > You seem to know a lot about k-train... What about those 20-30 groups trying to get fights or opening a keep, when tehre's 50+ inside manning 6 ac's refusing to come out, cause AC = avoid to fight a player. At least with this nerf the smaller attacking group actually can get a fights. Kitten forbid this WvW/PvP mode to enforce players to fight aggainst eachother, much more fun to keep promoting siege warfare. So..., Now those 50 will do two different things: build shield gens to mitigate the the damage on the walls / gate, Or they will run to another structure. If 50 stayed in vs 30, they aren't going to stay and fight you. Still not gonna work the way you want. Again, hit it from a distance somthey have to come and take out the catas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balthazzarr.1349 Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 > @"coro.3176" said: > If you build catapults out of AC range, they'll get deleted by a ballista (except on a few objectives with weird terrain). If you build them on the wall, they're generally safe from that, or any defensive ballista can be attacked from below. > > Generally, the game should be encouraging fights over objectives rather than siege wars. This is a positive step toward that. If this game was designed for just fights then why have structures at all? The statement above doesn't make sense. We have structures so we have objectives to capture and defend... NOT just have fights. If ANet is going to make the structures harder and harder to defend to "force" people into just having fights then I can guarantee you that there will be more people that just leave the game. Not all of us like to just run in blobs and fight. Some of us actually enjoy taking and defending the towers and keeps we have captured. There's actually some fun in that even if the blobbers don't think so. It's sad how the blob fighters like to look at the people who actually defend our stuff as some sort of low lifes that just don't like to 'play the game'... BUT.. hey folks we ARE playing the game as it was designed... at least originally. Sadly it's slowly changing to encourage just fighting... and as a person with 3.4k WxP and over 9000 hours of WvW play time... I'm losing interest more and more. I mean seriously and super UGH!.. I have been playing some PvE lately and that sucks... If it keeps going at this rate my game time will change from a few hours a night to a few hours a week... or less... it's already dropped quite a bit... *sigh* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Threather.9354 Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 > @"Strider Pj.2193" said: > STILL no good reason to build close. In fact, for BOTH PPT and Fights oriented groups, distance is better. Okay let me explain you this in a screenshot. So you wanted to treb/cata from far away with 50 players in the past? https://imgur.com/a/hwl6s5E So the ONE defender builds 3 shield gens (Normal, superior and guild) and then bubbles. So I can use 3 bubbles alone while those 50 people would be desperately trying to cata/treb it. The further away they are, the easier it is for me to use shield gens as the spot they're hitting gets extra small. Obviously normal shield gen doesnt have much range but I can just use guild + superior and bubble from safe distance ALONE, and it is only 90 supply. I have 1100 supply in the keep, 500 in the towers. In most cata/treb spots you can place the shield gens at a spot where enemy can't ballista/treb them. Oh, you could even have 2nd player behind the shield gens with more shield gens bubbling the first shield gens. Distance was not viable option BEFORE. now it is because catas and trebs can pass the shield gens. Lets add 5 people with each having 3 shield gens. Okay so thats 15 shield gens, you must have had great luck trebbing/ballistas them all down when they're all shield each other and stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Threather.9354 Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 > @"steki.1478" said: > Nothing happened to rams. You can still shield people on them, you just need to defend shield gens now as well. Using shields to counter trebs was beyond stupid and mortars/cannons can be cleared with no big issues. Umm, rams are nerfed because you can now build a treb behind the gate to kill the rams. Also trebs/mortars from keeps can defend towers like veloka/aldons/jerri/bravost/langor. So rams received A HUGE NERF in their viability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henry.5713 Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 Thought Meteor Showers had replaced ACs... oh wait just one second! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balthazzarr.1349 Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 > @"Threather.9354" said: > > @"Strider Pj.2193" said: > > STILL no good reason to build close. In fact, for BOTH PPT and Fights oriented groups, distance is better. > > Okay let me explain you this in a screenshot. So you wanted to treb/cata from far away with 50 players in the past? > > https://imgur.com/a/hwl6s5E > > So the ONE defender builds 3 shield gens (Normal, superior and guild) and then bubbles. So I can use 3 bubbles alone while those 50 people would be desperately trying to cata/treb it. The further away they are, the easier it is for me to use shield gens as the spot they're hitting gets extra small. Obviously normal shield gen doesnt have much range but I can just use guild + superior and bubble from safe distance ALONE, and it is only 90 supply. I have 1100 supply in the keep, 500 in the towers. In most cata/treb spots you can place the shield gens at a spot where enemy can't ballista/treb them. > Oh, you could even have 2nd player behind the shield gens with more shield gens bubbling the first shield gens. > > Distance was not viable option BEFORE. now it is because catas and trebs can pass the shield gens. > > Lets add 5 people with each having 3 shield gens. Okay so thats 15 shield gens, you must have had great luck trebbing/ballistas them all down when they're all shield each other and stuff. > ah but you can NOT use 3 bubbles alone. Your recharge goes with you even if you switch gens, or any siege for that matter. So if you pop one and run to the other you still have to wait for it. So you need one person for each gen. BUT.. ANet has changed it now so that you can't shield the shield gens... or at least I believe they can't overlap. Either way, one person can only run one shield gen skill at a time, and can't just pop to another gen expecting it to be charged and ready. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DemonSeed.3528 Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 > @"Threather.9354" said: > > @"Strider Pj.2193" said: > > STILL no good reason to build close. In fact, for BOTH PPT and Fights oriented groups, distance is better. > > Okay let me explain you this in a screenshot. So you wanted to treb/cata from far away with 50 players in the past? > > https://imgur.com/a/hwl6s5E > > So the ONE defender builds 3 shield gens (Normal, superior and guild) and then bubbles. So I can use 3 bubbles alone while those 50 people would be desperately trying to cata/treb it. The further away they are, the easier it is for me to use shield gens as the spot they're hitting gets extra small. Obviously normal shield gen doesnt have much range but I can just use guild + superior and bubble from safe distance ALONE, and it is only 90 supply. I have 1100 supply in the keep, 500 in the towers. In most cata/treb spots you can place the shield gens at a spot where enemy can't ballista/treb them. > Oh, you could even have 2nd player behind the shield gens with more shield gens bubbling the first shield gens. > > Distance was not viable option BEFORE. now it is because catas and trebs can pass the shield gens. > > Lets add 5 people with each having 3 shield gens. Okay so thats 15 shield gens, you must have had great luck trebbing/ballistas them all down when they're all shield each other and stuff. > If I'm not mistaken only superior and norms don't share cooldowns on shield gens. Guild shares cooldown though at least when I've tried so I only do the sup and norm combo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tengronor.6502 Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 Okay okay. Normally i don't answer on such posts. **But** before the devs will give this too much intention: The changes, to nerf the AC's were pretty necessary. A good organized Squad couldn't take a T3 garrison because of more or less 6 AC's. Now less DMG+less Hits on the Player sounds good. Now the Defending comes a bit interessting and funny. And thats what we want in a **Game**: Fun. Now we dont need 6 Players per T3 Keep or Tower to defend it, to make it lame but all for the points. No now you have to use different types of Strategy, now you have to fight for your dear litte Castle in EBG. That change makes the WvW quite more interesting in Organizing and in Strategy and in this way, way more People have fun in playing WvW cause they have to do something. So please devs don't listen to the cry of People who already used AC's in Open World fights cause no IQ or something. Keep changes like this one up and make WvW **GREAT AGAIN** Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Threather.9354 Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 > @"Balthazzarr.1349" said: > ah but you can NOT use 3 bubbles alone. Your recharge goes with you even if you switch gens, or any siege for that matter. So if you pop one and run to the other you still have to wait for it. So you need one person for each gen. BUT.. ANet has changed it now so that you can't shield the shield gens... or at least I believe they can't overlap. Yes you can. Guild, normal and superior gens have different range so if you use 3 different kind of shield gens, they're considered different skills. If you dont believe, just go try it, I just did it in the screenshot I just posted placing 2 bubbles at same time. Fun similar issue with siege cooldowns: There is another kind of bug is in the golem bubble, if one player leaves the golem, another person can use the GOLEM bubble again. So you can basically coordinate with 10 people to rotate bubble in a golem. Very useful taking down watergate cannon with 1 golem + 1 ballista but super hard to coordinate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Threather.9354 Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 > @"DemonSeed.3528" said: > If I'm not mistaken only superior and norms don't share cooldowns on shield gens. Guild shares cooldown though at least when I've tried so I only do the sup and norm combo. Nah, it has different range than superior so it considered different skill. I have done this before with 3 gens and it doesnt share cooldown. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DemonSeed.3528 Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 > @"Threather.9354" said: > > @"DemonSeed.3528" said: > > If I'm not mistaken only superior and norms don't share cooldowns on shield gens. Guild shares cooldown though at least when I've tried so I only do the sup and norm combo. > > Nah, it has different range than superior so it considered different skill. I have done this before with 3 gens and it doesnt share cooldown. > > I just tested it again, superior and guild shield gens share cooldown. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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