1-Shot Soulbeast -- An example of the worst "balance"

[ChartFish.1308]

harsh master strikes again, leaving nothing but salt in their wake

 

> @"ZeteCommander.4937" said:

> The real problem is that condition damage can hardly hurt them，This is even more than the Druids and more damage than the Druids

 

bruh. conditions *melt* any ranger not using wilderness survival, and if you want to imitate this oneshot wonderbuild then you can't run wilderness survival.

A oneshot wondershot build has nothing to cleanse conditions. NOTHING. Not Bear stance, because WHaO is necessary for mightstacking, not signet of renewal because it brings no damage boosts. any ranger running a high damage little sustain build atm on soulbeast *knows* that if they get focused, be it power damage or condi damage, they will melt. you essentially fill the role of a thief +1s but with less mobility.

[ZhouX.8742]

> @"Daishi.6027" said:

> **Feel like the problem is more with smokescale, in combination with soul beast, the core survivability tools offered by some weapons, and good recovery even on squishy builds. **Which would be fine if the pet wasn't so good. It makes the spec have quite a large amount of damage that can easy to deny escape, and play fairly safe.

>

> The skill alone is kinda fine, burst from stealth is nothing new (look at malicious backstab). Sure the numbers are large but it should be expected to do a lot of harm, it's mostly a problem when you are aware of your target and they have every tool they need to stay alive but threaten you with decent passive damage from pet, and can spike you hard with no real build up compared to the way a war/thief has to, or how empty a mes is after an attempt.

>

> I suggest making smokescale a versatile archetype at least for PvP and swapping the might for fury or retaliation, that way you have less of a complete package but can still perform these kinds of numbers with more steps and pets.

 

Mesmer mains talking about other class's survivability availability on a toolkit

 

massive :thinking: face

[Schwahrheit.4203]

Sure Ranger can have burst... but nerf the automatic low intelligence required pets and they can be like everybody else who has to be good on their specific class and not get carried by two things bating dodges at the same time (The pet and the ranger)

 

Such a garbage designed class, GW2 is against "real" high skill cap. This class could be like Lone Druid from DOTA at least but nah. ANET in their echo chamber thinking complex blueprints/code = complex class.

 

Ranger always gonna be a zero skill class, and bad designed too all because ANET refuses to take criticism.

[ZhouX.8742]

> @"Schwahrheit.4203" said:

> Sure Ranger can have burst... but nerf the automatic low intelligence required pets and they can be like everybody else who has to be good on their specific class and not get carried by two things bating dodges at the same time (The pet and the ranger)

>

> Such a garbage designed class, GW2 is against "real" high skill cap. This class could be like Lone Druid from DOTA at least but nah. ANET in their echo chamber thinking complex blueprints/code = complex class.

>

> Ranger always gonna be a zero skill class, and bad designed too all because ANET refuses to take criticism.

 

Duel ranger vs ranger then? Before you type something like this, I'd like to atleast see what skill level you're currently at to see it's validity.

 

I mean, if you haven't played it before, you could just as well easily pick it up within seconds since it's so braindead, right?

 

Message me in game when you're ready

[Daishi.6027]

> @"ZhouX.8742" said:

> > @"Daishi.6027" said:

> > **Feel like the problem is more with smokescale, in combination with soul beast, the core survivability tools offered by some weapons, and good recovery even on squishy builds. **Which would be fine if the pet wasn't so good. It makes the spec have quite a large amount of damage that can easy to deny escape, and play fairly safe.

> >

> > The skill alone is kinda fine, burst from stealth is nothing new (look at malicious backstab). Sure the numbers are large but it should be expected to do a lot of harm, it's mostly a problem when you are aware of your target and they have every tool they need to stay alive but threaten you with decent passive damage from pet, and can spike you hard with no real build up compared to the way a war/thief has to, or how empty a mes is after an attempt.

> >

> > I suggest making smokescale a versatile archetype at least for PvP and swapping the might for fury or retaliation, that way you have less of a complete package but can still perform these kinds of numbers with more steps and pets.

>

> Mesmer mains talking about other class's survivability availability on a toolkit

>

> massive :thinking: face

 

I don't see a problem with my statement, other than maybe needing to clarify my reference to thief was DE malice.

 

If you count on demand active evasions Ranger's base kit has more than any meta mirage set, that is alongside better health regen, better ways to deal with condi, and a more persistent pet mechanic.

 

I'm not saying that alone is imba, but it is a feature that should be considered when taking "20k+ dmg numbers in one hit" into account.

I don't think that is unreasonable.

[Nuka Cola.8520]

And can i just add about how much weaker the Druid is compared to Soulbeast. The difference is ridiculous. The only thing you got going for on a druid is the root chain, but you always had it and its useless in team fights.

 

They overnerfed Druid and buffed Soulbeast, a spec that didn't need any buffs at all.

[Arheundel.6451]

> @"Nuka Cola.8520" said:

> And can i just add about how much weaker the Druid is compared to Soulbeast. The difference is ridiculous. The only thing you got going for on a druid is the root chain, but you always had it and its useless in team fights.

>

> They overnerfed Druid and buffed Soulbeast, a spec that didn't need any buffs at all.

 

What are you talking about? The problem has been identified withing Markmanship line, there is a bug with **Opening strike** , going back to druid...how exactly is weaker than soulbeast if it's played differently? The main traits which have carried druid since Hot, have been left untouched...druid is 100% still great. Sorry my friend but ranger is great, from core to both elites, everything works wonderfully ...my core ranger can go toe to toe with holosmiths and spellbreakers, what more can be said?

[Legatus.3608]

 

> @"Coolguy.8702" said:

> > @"Vagrant.7206" said:

>

> >

> > Did you not see the pictures I posted in the first post? Literal one-shot. 25k damage from a single skill, I had only 16k max health. That's the definition of a one-shot.

>

> Yea i saw them but theirs only 1 guy who uses it. He did the same to other good players. Nobody else knows the build therefore it will *never* get nerfed

 

With some careful observing it should become possible to figure it out though

 

You can see his weapon set and pet just by looking at him, you should figure out his utilities after a minute or two of watching

 

After that the trait lines should be possible to determine, after all there's only so many usable combinations

[Nath Forge Tempete.1645]

> @"Poelala.2830" said:

> Despite the 1 shots, Harsh Master's build is very benign. There's a reason why he's been playing the same 1 shot ranger build (plus variants) for 3 years years and he's the only one. It's bad. You win some and lose some, but with his build he loses more than he wins.

 

It's a 5v5 gamemode ... So ofc he doesn't win everygame with it .We all got (and are) bad teammates. Winning/loosing ratio is not what define a build as OP. But more the fact of counterplays available. Random dodge isn't a counter play ... Just leaving this here.

[Hyraltia.4185]

> @"Nath Forge Tempete.1645" said:

> > @"Poelala.2830" said:

> > Despite the 1 shots, Harsh Master's build is very benign. There's a reason why he's been playing the same 1 shot ranger build (plus variants) for 3 years years and he's the only one. It's bad. You win some and lose some, but with his build he loses more than he wins.

>

> It's a 5v5 gamemode ... So ofc he doesn't win everygame with it .We all got (and are) bad teammates. Winning/loosing ratio is not what define a build as OP. But more the fact of counterplays available. Random dodge isn't a counter play ... Just leaving this here.

 

Also the other thing all these people defending mass damage builds are forgetting, sure one of them in a team isn't a problem, but when you start hitting 2 or 3 mass dps builds in 1 game you simply no longer have the dodge or defensive resources in a team fight to avoid that damage and live. The old excuse of lol dodge it isn't viable in the current age of the game, too many low cd high damage abilities to dodge and only 2 dodges to do it with.

 

People like to use the excuse too much and forget this is a team game not focused around 1v1s nor should it be balanced around said 1v1. Sure the dps and skills are fine 1v1, you mess up you die that's fair, but sitting in a team fight fighting a ranger that can hit me for 15k if I mess up or look away from him for two seconds to dodge that mesmer that can also 1 burst me isn't good design, balancing or fun.

[Zawn.9647]

> @"Trevor Boyer.6524" said:

> This topic was already thoroughly covered here -> https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/47047/60-000-damage-from-1-ability-is-that-normal/p1

>

> Quick summary for those who missed it:

> * 60k single strike is real, but only in Eternal Coliseum with artifact +20% buff and additional +20% buff from the Grenth kill. Otherwise 40k'ish is the highest a one shot soulbeast is going to land.

> * Yes the build is real, yes it can stealth for that long.

> * While complaining for nerfs, understand where the problem lies with why this damage is so high. It is NOT WI itself, it is the damage multipliers: Attack Of Opportunity, Moment Of Clarity, Remorseless, and Sic'Em. Without these ridiculously amplifying damage modifiers, WI is just a Gravedigger swing. So when screaming at Anet for nerfs, Don't ask for WI to be Nerfed, because that won't change Mauls from hitting you for 40ks. You need to request the sick damage multipliers to be nerfed.

> * This build performs terribly in a competitive environment. Players should be less worried about gimmicky one shot soulbeasts, and more worried about 2-3 shot soulbeasts that are actually running competitive build structures. In this case, it is Sic'Em specifically, that is equating to highly over powered Rapid Fires, 2-3 shot mauls & WIs, and 2000 range unblockable undodgable 6s reveals.

>

> Let's also not forgot the other classes with ridiculously high DPS that can run more practical bursts without needing to go unranked gimmick to do it. So be careful where you toss the nerf train agro.

>

>

 

I kinda agree with you. Another issue is that ANet lowered the cast time on WI to 0.75s or something like that... So it's very hard to dodge it coming from stealth (or even in a middle of a messy Teamfight) :(

[anduriell.6280]

just saying here but i think the problem is the stealth itself.

As i read you don't complain about having tells to hard hitting skills but about coming out from stealth one shooting people. I agree with that statement, one shooting people from stealth is not fun to watch or play against.

 

**So what we need a rework of how stealth works in this game** and then you will see the soulbeast come to you and you should be able to evade that maul\WI. All the classes that create the most complains are the ones which have means to stealth (mesmer, thief and ranger).

[Legatus.3608]

> @"Chaith.8256" said:

>

> Death's Judgement having a SFX and visual is more counterplay than I'm used to TBH

>

 

Going to quote you for all of eternity on this from now on, for every deadeye whine thread :p

[Rodzynald.5897]

And to think that even now I find people who complain about core hammer disco ball combo.

[terrorshard.3854]

Soulbeast isn't very good. It is like a worse holosmith or spellbreaker with less sustain. This version of soulbeast is even worse than that.

[ZeteCommander.4937]

Soul beast has too many condition defenses, which even surpasses the destroyer.> @"terrorshard.3854" said:

> Soulbeast isn't very good. It is like a worse holosmith or spellbreaker with less sustain. This version of soulbeast is even worse than that.

 

Soul beast has too many condition defenses, which even surpasses the spellbreaker .

[Euthymias.7984]

I'm a bit torn on this.

On one hand, I agree that 1-shots shouldnt be front-loaded into a single big attack, (especially from stealth) but should be a burst of a chain of skills. There's no easy way to read that someone's coming at you with that build till you've already gotten hit by it and there's very few situations (though they do exist!) where others can pull off such a quick death on anyone currently. Being a single hit instead of a chain also bypass passive traits meant to defend against getting blown up when considering passives. Not too sure about how to feel with that, seeing that they arent too counterplay-able these days.

 

On the other, if this build was as easy and effective as people make it out to be, it would be META and all over the place with players running it left and right for "easy" one shots on every encounter. It seems like its extremely uncommon for the most part because of its impracticality of high risk for the reward desired for the average player. Its been mentioned before, but it holds true that it wont work so efficient at high ranks once people are aware of a target running it; they get smashed by any group with some semblance of target awareness. To me, it starts to become a question about whether Anet should balance to the average player's level while considering a bad team's lack of awareness of burst builds.

 

If they do anything at all and consider suggestions, I'd just consider lowering Attack of Opportunity to 33% instead of 50%, lower Remorseless to 20% from 25%, and dont let Maul provide Attack of Opportunity unless it hits something, and see how things go from there.

 

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

> @"ZeteCommander.4937" said:

> Soul beast has too many condition defenses, which even surpasses the destroyer.> @"terrorshard.3854" said:

> > Soulbeast isn't very good. It is like a worse holosmith or spellbreaker with less sustain. This version of soulbeast is even worse than that.

>

> Soul beast has too many condition defenses, which even surpasses the spellbreaker .

 

Aint no way.

 

* https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Wilderness_Knowledge

* https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Second_Skin

* https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Bear_Stance

* https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Signet_of_Renewal

 

vs.

 

* https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Cleansing_Ire

* https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Brawler%27s_Recovery

* https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Revenge_Counter

* https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Healing_Signet

* https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Natural_Healing

* https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Berserker_Stance

* https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/%22Shake_It_Off!%22

* https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Signet_of_Stamina

* https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Featherfoot_Grace

 

Perhaps you were speaking of Druid. Careful where you toss the nerf agro.

 

[sephiroth.4217]

> @"Arcaedus.7290" said:

> > @"suffish.4150" said:

> > Leave oneshot soulbeast as it is. It’s a total trash build for overall play, even something like gunflame warr is more useful, but it’s so much fun to troll around with and make people angry. Would be a shame if those 30k worldly impacts cease to be possible in pvp.

>

> This is essentially two good reasons to eradicate the build. Just because it's not effective overall doesn't make the 1-shot capabilities acceptable. If a build exists, is not effective or useful in any of the three game modes and is really only capable of causing distress to players fighting against it, it just embodies griefing/trolling, particularly against newer or less experienced players. Ask yourselves, should this really be an option in the game?

 

so if a build is fun but utterly useless then it shouldn't exist?

did I read that right?

 

or is it if a build causea distress to a player then it should be deleted? if thats the case, please delete holo

[Kageseigi.2150]

> @"Nuka Cola.8520" said:

> Okay, you have all your CD. I perma stealth 1 shot you with Malicious Backstab. Counter? Good luck finding one.

 

I'm just trying to figure out what kind of build gets 1-shot from a Malicious Backstab? Especially without Shadow Trap involved.

[Arcaedus.7290]

> @"sephiroth.4217" said:

> > @"Arcaedus.7290" said:

> > > @"suffish.4150" said:

> > > Leave oneshot soulbeast as it is. It’s a total trash build for overall play, even something like gunflame warr is more useful, but it’s so much fun to troll around with and make people angry. Would be a shame if those 30k worldly impacts cease to be possible in pvp.

> >

> > This is essentially two good reasons to eradicate the build. Just because it's not effective overall doesn't make the 1-shot capabilities acceptable. If a build exists, is not effective or useful in any of the three game modes and is really only capable of causing distress to players fighting against it, it just embodies griefing/trolling, particularly against newer or less experienced players. Ask yourselves, should this really be an option in the game?

>

> so if a build is fun but utterly useless then it shouldn't exist?

> did I read that right?

>

> or is it if a build causea distress to a player then it should be deleted? if thats the case, please delete holo

 

It's not fun, unless your idea of fun is consistently losing but trolling players while doing so. If this is your idea of fun, then you absolutely shouldn't be catered to.

[sephiroth.4217]

> @"Arcaedus.7290" said:

> > @"sephiroth.4217" said:

> > > @"Arcaedus.7290" said:

> > > > @"suffish.4150" said:

> > > > Leave oneshot soulbeast as it is. It’s a total trash build for overall play, even something like gunflame warr is more useful, but it’s so much fun to troll around with and make people angry. Would be a shame if those 30k worldly impacts cease to be possible in pvp.

> > >

> > > This is essentially two good reasons to eradicate the build. Just because it's not effective overall doesn't make the 1-shot capabilities acceptable. If a build exists, is not effective or useful in any of the three game modes and is really only capable of causing distress to players fighting against it, it just embodies griefing/trolling, particularly against newer or less experienced players. Ask yourselves, should this really be an option in the game?

> >

> > so if a build is fun but utterly useless then it shouldn't exist?

> > did I read that right?

> >

> > or is it if a build causea distress to a player then it should be deleted? if thats the case, please delete holo

>

> It's not fun, unless your idea of fun is consistently losing but trolling players while doing so. If this is your idea of fun, then you absolutely shouldn't be catered to.

 

 

It's not fun for you is what you're saying.

 

Playing high risk high rewards is extremely fun to me and if dying in a PvP game really upsets you, then the issues don't lie within the builds.

 

 

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

> @"Kageseigi.2150" said:

> > @"Nuka Cola.8520" said:

> > Okay, you have all your CD. I perma stealth 1 shot you with Malicious Backstab. Counter? Good luck finding one.

>

> I'm just trying to figure out what kind of build gets 1-shot from a Malicious Backstab? Especially without Shadow Trap involved.

 

Full DPS Berserker Soulbeasts with 0 defensive utilities, that's what.

 

[sephiroth.4217]

> @"Trevor Boyer.6524" said:

> > @"Kageseigi.2150" said:

> > > @"Nuka Cola.8520" said:

> > > Okay, you have all your CD. I perma stealth 1 shot you with Malicious Backstab. Counter? Good luck finding one.

> >

> > I'm just trying to figure out what kind of build gets 1-shot from a Malicious Backstab? Especially without Shadow Trap involved.

>

> Full DPS Berserker Soulbeasts with 0 defensive utilities, that's what.

 

also my zerker mes and mender tempest...

 

theres counterplay to it though unless I didnt see it coming but at that point the fault lies within my situational awareness and not the builds

[ZeteCommander.4937]

> @"Trevor Boyer.6524" said:

> > @"ZeteCommander.4937" said:

> > Soul beast has too many condition defenses, which even surpasses the destroyer.> @"terrorshard.3854" said:

> > > Soulbeast isn't very good. It is like a worse holosmith or spellbreaker with less sustain. This version of soulbeast is even worse than that.

> >

> > Soul beast has too many condition defenses, which even surpasses the spellbreaker .

>

> Aint no way.

>

> * https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Wilderness_Knowledge

> * https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Second_Skin

> * https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Bear_Stance

> * https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Signet_of_Renewal

>

> vs.

>

> * https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Cleansing_Ire

> * https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Brawler%27s_Recovery

> * https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Revenge_Counter

> * https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Healing_Signet

> * https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Natural_Healing

> * https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Berserker_Stance

> * https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/%22Shake_It_Off!%22

> * https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Signet_of_Stamina

> * https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Featherfoot_Grace

>

> Perhaps you were speaking of Druid. Careful where you toss the nerf agro.

>

In this respect, the soul beasts have surpassed the Druids.BearStance and SecondSkin are more effective than every skills of warrior.BearStance is most op that can remove candition from pulse and can not be removed.It almost means that it can't be hurt by condition in 6 seconds and its cooldown is very short . These two skills make conditioin damage lose the meaning of existence.In addition to this, the Beastmode provides additional condition protection.