Zarghoul.5687 Posted July 31, 2018 Share Posted July 31, 2018 ok i get it, loot boxes make a stupid amount of money, and the reason this is okay is a few technicalities, but cmon Anet im tired of defending you, i love this game , i love the story, i love the gameplay, iv played since factions, and im online almost every day, but why do you have to go down this rabbit hole again, uv just been in the media for negativity and hearsay, and from what i was lead to believe by you as a company, is that loot boxes were a bad idea, it didnt go well in the media, and while it made you a ton of money, you lost a lot of trust from the community, which a couple days later you redeemed, by saying you wouldnt add more skins to the licenses, and you know what, i understood that to try and go back and sort tht out would of been a logistical nightmare, but trying to go around your promise by releasing a different set of licenses is really scummy Anet, and honestly if your having to rely on something that is hated by a large amount of the gaming community to keep your game alive, then you really need to revise your options, there are plenty of things that the community would pay for in the game, dont pick back up your own dead horse what sucks is knowing that these lootboxes are gonna sell well, cos people are starved for content, and anet will probably seasonally release more rng skins, to follow that "demand" but when the media falls on this again, you only have yourselves to blame for the backlash. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inculpatus cedo.9234 Posted July 31, 2018 Share Posted July 31, 2018 I think you misinterpreted their statement about additional Mount Skins. I, for one, enjoy the option to get a Mount Skin for a low price. For those that don't want to participate in the random feature, there are the 'Select' Mount Skin Licenses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zarghoul.5687 Posted July 31, 2018 Author Share Posted July 31, 2018 while that is true, why should the option to buy the skin you want be more expensive than an rng roll, thats not marketing, thats exploitation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danikat.8537 Posted July 31, 2018 Share Posted July 31, 2018 First and most importantly: why do you feel the need to defend them? Being a player, or even a fan of a game isn't an all-or-nothing thing. You don't have to like absolutely everything Anet has ever done just because you like GW2 as a whole, and even if you do like it you don't have to persuade anyone else to like it. If you don't feel like defending them then don't. You don't even need to completely like or dislike each individual thing. You could think the mount select licences (the ones which aren't random) are functionally ok but too expensive and the random ones are terrible and shouldn't exist at all. Or the opposite, or any other combination of factors which feels right to you. But also I think you've missed a lot of bits from your understanding of the situation, in particular I think you're mixing up two different sets of mounts/licences. The controversy over Mount Adoption Licences was back in November when they released [the original ones](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Mount_Adoption_License "the original ones") with 30 possibilities and no way of buying just the one you wanted. A heavily abridged and paraphrased version of what they said at the time was they wouldn't be changing that set (because some people had already bought lot of licences to try for the mount/s they wanted and they'd be angry if it was changed now) but all future mount skins would have a non-RNG option, which would cost more. They didn't say there wouldn't be RNG options too, just that it wouldn't be the only way to get the mounts you want. And then the Istani Isles set was released in March which did exactly that - you could buy RNG licences for 400 gems each _or_ you count buy Selection licences which let you pick a mount for 1,200 gems each. So at best you're about 4 months late with this complaint. But also (speaking as someone who was very disappointed with the original licences) I think you're also missing the key point that they have given us a choice - if you don't want to gamble for the mount/s you want then you have the option to buy them directly. It's expensive, but not as expensive as buying 15 licences to try for the one you want, definitely not as expensive as buying 30 of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Overlord RainyDay.2084 Posted July 31, 2018 Share Posted July 31, 2018 If it wasn't more expensive, who would buy the random one? At least they don't let you get dupes. If you're planning on getting them all _eventually_ the random roll is the cheaper one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gendou.9620 Posted July 31, 2018 Share Posted July 31, 2018 This isn't a lootbox, you dont get repeats drops, I think you are confusing random with lottery. You are guaranteed a skin you do not own, instead of hoping that you might get a skin at all. Don't put titles like lootbox on something that clearly isn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheNecrosanct.4028 Posted July 31, 2018 Share Posted July 31, 2018 > @"Zarghoul.5687" said: > while that is true, why should the option to buy the skin you want be more expensive than an rng roll, thats not marketing, thats exploitation Because before, RNG was the only way of getting a mount skin from an Adoption License set (the one with 30 skins). People weren't okay with that, so ANet made a second option for Licenses released after the first set, namely to outright buy the skin you want for an increased premium. There is no exploitation going on here at all. You can either buy random skins, buy specific ones, or not buy any at all. None of them have unforeseen results. You should look up the definition of exploitation because this is far from it. And I see so many special mount skins in the game that I feel safe to say that most people do not have a problem with it whatsoever, and that it doesn't impact the game negatively. So apparently those many things the community would pay for include these mount skin packs. These also aren't your regular lootboxes. You always get something you can't get anywhere else, you never get doubles and you know the chance of getting a certain skin increases with every random skin purchase you make. And the media? Well, if they see this as a problem, then they're mighty late to the bashing party. This is the 3rd Adoption License set. The previous one (Istani set) works exactly the same as this one and was released months ago. Media either don't see the problem you do, or they are bad at their job for not picking this up the first time such a pack was released. In fact, if you want to look at lootbox practices, these Adoption Licenses are a lot more favorable than the BL chests which have been in the game since the start. So can I safely assume you've been "defending" ANet for almost 6 years now? Surely you wouldn't have left the BL chests out of your argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheOrlyFactor.8341 Posted July 31, 2018 Share Posted July 31, 2018 Except it's not a loot box system. It's a grab bag system, i.e. when you get a skin from the mount license thing, it's pulled out of the pool and you can't get it again (no duplicates whereas it's possible to get a duplicate in a loot box system). Whether or not that's better or if that makes a difference is irrelevant. The fact of the matter is that this system is not a loot box system. The Black Lion Chests are closer to a loot box system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDub.1530 Posted July 31, 2018 Share Posted July 31, 2018 Now Black Lion Chests, those are loot boxes. And have been in game since day 1. Yet somehow the loot box issue is only a problem now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danikat.8537 Posted July 31, 2018 Share Posted July 31, 2018 I am a bit annoyed that the sets with selection licences only have 15 mounts in, meaning you only need to want 5 of them before it's cheaper to buy enough RNG licences to get the full set. It makes the selection licences seem like less value for money than in a set of 30. But I shouldn't complain because for me the division of skins worked out well. I like almost all the ones in the Istani set and even the ones I'm not keen on are ok and I do use them on alts. And there's only a few in the other sets I really want in addition to those. So actually I got a slightly better deal because I can buy all the Istani ones at 400 gems each and then just a few additional licence. (Of course I had to make and sell a legendary to afford 15 licences...but lets ignore that part.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zarghoul.5687 Posted July 31, 2018 Author Share Posted July 31, 2018 okay theres a lot to go through here, one: i defend the game when people dont give it a chance, but its hard for people to want to play a game that follows bad industry practices and gets a bad rap, and yes i will also actively complain, if there are things in the game i dont like, i tend to find most aspects of the game fun, and honestly when Anet added the other options a while back, while it annoyed me, it made sense to give people who cant help but buy lootboxes buy just the skin they want, as it was made out that they would be the only skins released, now that gained trust is being milked. two: these are still lootboxes no matter how u butter it up, if you have to buy something tht has the potential to not give you what your paying for you are gambling that money or gold, even if with each purchase you increase your odds of getting the skin you want, that is a marketing ploy, following that adding the ability to buy the skin you want to far exceed the price of a role is to further exploit that mechanic for further gain to potentially draw people to pay more, which is gambling. three: black lion chests are huge part of the problem that wont be removed anytime soon, iv not liked black lion chests from the moment i learned they were a key part to fashion wars, and iv always wanted content to rather be a part of the gaming experience, than the constant need to farm gold or open your wallet, these are all issues that need to be addressed, but people become complacent and allow these things to happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inculpatus cedo.9234 Posted July 31, 2018 Share Posted July 31, 2018 How is purchasing the exact Mount Skin you want gambling? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zarghoul.5687 Posted July 31, 2018 Author Share Posted July 31, 2018 > @"Inculpatus cedo.9234" said: > How is purchasing the exact Mount Skin you want gambling? tht isnt, but selling the rng role at a lower price than the skin is exploiting the choice, just simply sell the skins on their own, its not difficult, as many items are listed on there own in the store Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inculpatus cedo.9234 Posted July 31, 2018 Share Posted July 31, 2018 Well, it's confusing because you stated: _"... following that adding the ability to buy the skin you want to far exceed the price of a role[sic] is to further exploit that mechanic for further gain to potentially draw people to pay more, *which is gambling*."_ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deihnyx.6318 Posted July 31, 2018 Share Posted July 31, 2018 Oh no not again... There already was a silly drama about it and people got what they wanted, choice between RNG and paying more for a skin you want. Give them a finger, and they’ll take the whole hand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottBroChill.3254 Posted July 31, 2018 Share Posted July 31, 2018 the reason the select a mount skins are more is because with the original random mount adoption license they priced it in a way that basically assumed the player making the purchase would have to buy it multiple times in order to get the skin or skins they wanted, thus spending more. With the selectable adoption license, people will make a one and done purchase but will get exactly what they want, so they probably won't buy more skins. The only way this is profitible for anet is if they up the price. The reason the cheaper random adoption is cheaper is because of the assumption that people will buy multiple, 3+ mount skins. If you get the radom ones youll be rewarded with more skins, but the large possibility of not getting the one you want. It's economics. It's why online clothing companys or other companies sometimes sell random "grab bags" that is largely cheaper than the items inside. You get more value than you paid for at the price of not knowing what you're getting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kharmin.7683 Posted July 31, 2018 Share Posted July 31, 2018 Do we really need to rehash the entire "gambling" argument again? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ayrilana.1396 Posted July 31, 2018 Share Posted July 31, 2018 > @"Zarghoul.5687" said: > > @"Inculpatus cedo.9234" said: > > How is purchasing the exact Mount Skin you want gambling? > > tht isnt, but selling the rng role at a lower price than the skin is exploiting the choice, just simply sell the skins on their own, its not difficult, as many items are listed on there own in the store Then there would be zero point in buying the RNG box. It’s only gambling in that players can get the skin(s) that they want for a cheaper price. They have an option to purchase that skin directly. Hardly a bad system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zarghoul.5687 Posted July 31, 2018 Author Share Posted July 31, 2018 > @"Inculpatus cedo.9234" said: > Well, it's confusing because you stated: _"... following that adding the ability to buy the skin you want to far exceed the price of a role[sic] is to further exploit that mechanic for further gain to potentially draw people to pay more, *which is gambling*."_ yes cause it will make people want to take their chances rather than pay more to get the thing they actually want, why pay 1200 when i can do 3 rolls of rng for tht Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zarghoul.5687 Posted July 31, 2018 Author Share Posted July 31, 2018 > @"Ayrilana.1396" said: > > @"Zarghoul.5687" said: > > > @"Inculpatus cedo.9234" said: > > > How is purchasing the exact Mount Skin you want gambling? > > > > tht isnt, but selling the rng role at a lower price than the skin is exploiting the choice, just simply sell the skins on their own, its not difficult, as many items are listed on there own in the store > > Then there would be zero point in buying the RNG box. It’s only gambling in that players can get the skin(s) that they want for a cheaper price. They have an option to purchase that skin directly. Hardly a bad system. the point is to not buy the rng and just buy the item, just sell the skins seperatly, there is no need to have a rng money sink, thts not a difficult thing to do, the lootboxes are made purely to make an insanely higher profit by playing on peoples ability to succumb to gambling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zarghoul.5687 Posted July 31, 2018 Author Share Posted July 31, 2018 > @"kharmin.7683" said: > Do we really need to rehash the entire "gambling" argument again? yes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deihnyx.6318 Posted July 31, 2018 Share Posted July 31, 2018 > @"Zarghoul.5687" said: > > @"Ayrilana.1396" said: > > > @"Zarghoul.5687" said: > > > > @"Inculpatus cedo.9234" said: > > > > How is purchasing the exact Mount Skin you want gambling? > > > > > > tht isnt, but selling the rng role at a lower price than the skin is exploiting the choice, just simply sell the skins on their own, its not difficult, as many items are listed on there own in the store > > > > Then there would be zero point in buying the RNG box. It’s only gambling in that players can get the skin(s) that they want for a cheaper price. They have an option to purchase that skin directly. Hardly a bad system. > > the point is to not buy the rng and just buy the item, just sell the skins seperatly, there is no need to have a rng money sink, thts not a difficult thing to do, the lootboxes are made purely to make an insanely higher profit by playing on peoples ability to succumb to gambling Some people like gambling. You have the choice not to gamble. Why not making a thread about ecto gambling? It's arguably much worse than a few mounts that you can actually buy separately. EDIT: Oh also, gambling never disappeared. Each seasonable item has gambling prizes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zarghoul.5687 Posted July 31, 2018 Author Share Posted July 31, 2018 > Some people like gambling. You have the choice not to gamble. > Why not making a thread about ecto gambling? It's arguably much worse than a few mounts that you can actually buy separately. because the idea of ecto gambling is an entirely internal practice to the game and dosnt have a button tht lets you buy gems to get ectos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kharmin.7683 Posted July 31, 2018 Share Posted July 31, 2018 > @"Deihnyx.6318" said: > Why not making a thread about ecto gambling? It's arguably much worse than a few mounts that you can actually buy separately. > [There already is one](https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/21129/looking-for-players-who-ecto-gamble "There already is one"). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ayrilana.1396 Posted July 31, 2018 Share Posted July 31, 2018 > @"Zarghoul.5687" said: > > @"Ayrilana.1396" said: > > > @"Zarghoul.5687" said: > > > > @"Inculpatus cedo.9234" said: > > > > How is purchasing the exact Mount Skin you want gambling? > > > > > > tht isnt, but selling the rng role at a lower price than the skin is exploiting the choice, just simply sell the skins on their own, its not difficult, as many items are listed on there own in the store > > > > Then there would be zero point in buying the RNG box. It’s only gambling in that players can get the skin(s) that they want for a cheaper price. They have an option to purchase that skin directly. Hardly a bad system. > > the point is to not buy the rng and just buy the item, just sell the skins seperatly, there is no need to have a rng money sink, thts not a difficult thing to do, the lootboxes are made purely to make an insanely higher profit by playing on peoples ability to succumb to gambling People can already buy them separately. Anet added this option after the complaints over the first RNG pack that offered skins at a discounted price. Players that dislike the RNG pack can simply ignore it. Perhaps some of the blame should be placed on the players who do not exercise restraint or self-control when gambling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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