MUDse.7623 Posted August 3, 2018 Share Posted August 3, 2018 > @"shortcake.8659" said: > i used a bunch of tomes to level a soulbeast yesterday for lols, threw some exotic marauder gear on it, cheap consumables no infusions etc. > > autoattack crit an ele for 9600, lel. then rapid fired unblockable quickness arrows into a minstrel firebrand for about 80% of his health. > > Then I got oneshot by a 23k malicious backstab from a deadeye that i saw for maybe half a second during an attack animation. > > Then he died instantly to a mesmer that cast about 3 abilities on top of me. > > I don't think berserk damage is too high, at all! THIS IS FANTASTIC GAMEPLAY! > > i can clearly see here firebrand sustain OP, needs nerf. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ubi.4136 Posted August 3, 2018 Share Posted August 3, 2018 > @"shortcake.8659" said: > i used a bunch of tomes to level a soulbeast yesterday for lols, threw some exotic marauder gear on it, cheap consumables no infusions etc. > > autoattack crit an ele for 9600, lel. then rapid fired unblockable quickness arrows into a minstrel firebrand for about 80% of his health. > > Then I got oneshot by a 23k malicious backstab from a deadeye that i saw for maybe half a second during an attack animation. > > Then he died instantly to a mesmer that cast about 3 abilities on top of me. > > I don't think berserk damage is too high, at all! THIS IS FANTASTIC GAMEPLAY! > > I'd like to know what "cheap consumables" were used, because I run full ascended and full infusions with no consumables and my 3400 power, 66% crit chance 260% crit damage soulbeast tops out at a 7k crit with sic 'em up for the auto-attac against full glass builds at max range. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shortcake.8659 Posted August 3, 2018 Share Posted August 3, 2018 decent sharpening stones and canned power food. memes aside it was a bit of an outlier, probably upscaled or something but 6-7k autoshots were pretty norm on things with sic 'em and boons going, which is still pretty nuts for an auto with huge range. also the build is 100% glass scholar runes, because not dying to the first thing that looks back at me is for suckers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Artaz.3819 Posted August 3, 2018 Share Posted August 3, 2018 Meta Soulbeast gets the jump on a Mirage. Alpha macro scripts, enter Beastmode (procs Zephyr's Speed for Quickness and Unstoppable Union for Unblockable + plus a host of bonus traits) grrr, insta-cast Sick'Em (rawr) followed by Point Blank Shot and then Rapid Fire opener (a 2s huge burst from long range!). Meta Mirage targets Soulbeast, insta casts Illusionary Ambush as reaction (+ has Evasive Mirror traited - standard in every build), gains Reflect for 2s and still gets hit by the Point Blank Shot (shot traveling to Mirage) plus full Rapid Fire, SB loses target/looks like cloak due to lag from IA, Mirage then does Soulbeast critical hit glass cannon damage plus adds any additional crit damage bonuses (i.e. GM Superiority Complex) back to Soulbeast while hard CC'd. Soulbeast is downed before full Rapid Fire completes. Mirage laughs. Mirage feels bad stomping. ^^ Not anecdotal, I can't even imagine being on the Soulbeast's end of that "fight". Good thing I was on Invisible so I couldn't be messaged. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xtinct.7031 Posted August 3, 2018 Author Share Posted August 3, 2018 > @"shortcake.8659" said: > i used a bunch of tomes to level a soulbeast yesterday for lols, threw some exotic marauder gear on it, cheap consumables no infusions etc. > > autoattack crit an ele for 9600, lel. then rapid fired unblockable quickness arrows into a minstrel firebrand for about 80% of his health. > > Then I got oneshot by a 23k malicious backstab from a deadeye that i saw for maybe half a second during an attack animation. > > Then he died instantly to a mesmer that cast about 3 abilities on top of me. > > I don't think berserk damage is too high, at all! THIS IS FANTASTIC GAMEPLAY! > > It is obvious that this is the meta gameplay Anet wants for wvw since conditions have been downgraded, it is just simply overtuned. For thief, yes, a 20k Backstab or Death's Justice with no malice build up is messed up. For mesmer, yes a 20k teleport shatter burst is messed up. For marauder scepter ele, yes they can oneshot too. However, a quickening zephyr, sic em, one wolf pack rapid fire oneshot burst from 1800 range is just a special level of overtuned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ubi.4136 Posted August 3, 2018 Share Posted August 3, 2018 > @"Xtinct.7031" said: > > @"shortcake.8659" said: > > i used a bunch of tomes to level a soulbeast yesterday for lols, threw some exotic marauder gear on it, cheap consumables no infusions etc. > > > > autoattack crit an ele for 9600, lel. then rapid fired unblockable quickness arrows into a minstrel firebrand for about 80% of his health. > > > > Then I got oneshot by a 23k malicious backstab from a deadeye that i saw for maybe half a second during an attack animation. > > > > Then he died instantly to a mesmer that cast about 3 abilities on top of me. > > > > I don't think berserk damage is too high, at all! THIS IS FANTASTIC GAMEPLAY! > > > > > > It is obvious that this is the meta gameplay Anet wants for wvw since conditions have been downgraded, it is just simply overtuned. For thief, yes, a 20k Backstab or Death's Justice with no malice build up is messed up. For mesmer, yes a 20k teleport shatter burst is messed up. For marauder scepter ele, yes they can oneshot too. > However, a quickening zephyr, sic em, one wolf pack rapid fire oneshot burst from 1800 range is just a special level of overtuned. Yeah, playing soulbeast feels cheesy, but I do it for the range and so I can +1 the ridiculous sustain groups and burst their firebrand down which makes their group implode. I think that is the reason it got buffed this last cycle (which floors me cause it was NOT needed). Anet still refuses to address real problems like boon-sharing, so they have to leave ridiculous outliers to try and compensate, not that it really does what is intended (it does let me blow people up though, which is L O L). They have considered wvw a pve environment for so long, that now they no longer have a clear vision of how it should be played. So, how do you balance a game mode that they don't know what to do with and players intentionally ignore the game design for easier "fights" (ranks and loot) in lower tiers? I almost hope for a full redesign of the game happens, not just for wvw. PvE has a half-ass trinity, they need to go all in. They start balancing that, they could fix some of how it carries over to wvw. No reason a war, for example, should get all the defense, escapes, blocks, high armor WHILE being in a full dps spec. They need to make people choose to be one or the other, but until they start making some really aggressive game changes, wvw gets to showcase how broken balance is for certain classes/builds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sephiroth.4217 Posted August 3, 2018 Share Posted August 3, 2018 > @"Turkeyspit.3965" said: > > @"sephiroth.4217" said: > > > @"Etheri.5406" said: > > > > @"GDchiaScrub.3241" said: > > > > > @"Turkeyspit.3965" said: > > > > > > @"GDchiaScrub.3241" said: > > > > > > > @"Turkeyspit.3965" said: > > > > > > > > @"Odinens.5920" said: > > > > > > > > I've seen a LOT more SBs lately, and fighting in SMC the other day I swear I saw almost half the enemy zerg standing on inner with their mobile arrow arrow cart classes basically untouchable. It's pretty annoying, and is making WvW even more unfun lately. Time for another break, I guess. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I wish Barrage was as good as you think it is.... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @ OP, Mesmers and Thieves have been doing what you describe since forever, and arguably current Deadeye still does it better, and both have way more defensive options than a SB who has to sacrifice every defensive option to go full glass cannon. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I get that people are disappointed that Rangers aren't just free bags anymore, but that isn't a reason for nerfs. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Wait? I'm not suppose to be a free bag with daggers on Soulbeast? > > > > > > > > > > > > D: > > > > > > > > > > OP specifically said 'Zerker in the title, so if you're running power daggers.....well, at least you'll draw fire from the Necros and Eles ^_^ > > > > > > > > It's how I role when I RP. Get it? Role...nevermind I'm outtie! > > > > > > > > D: > > > > > > Sounds pretty accurate. > > > > > > Ranger is so OP I don't allow them in my squad. I wouldn't wanna win with such abusive mechanics. :trollface: > > > Power soulbeast is pretty strong for roaming, but 9/10 rangers are just scrubs trying to pewpew from safety. They're rarely smart, good or problematic. Unless they're on your team; in which case they can be very difficult to get rid of. > > > > Rangers are helpful in a zerg... I think, or atleast the turn around me and a friend are doing.... > > > > Me and friend have been running similar builds and we've been having a blast using our unblockable attacks to snipe the commander just as they push, it's freaking hilarious watching him go down and everyone stop to rez him only to get bombed by our zerg... Thier zerg just falls apart and splits like cockroaches and everyone picks them off as they run and port away... Did this to the same driver like 4 times in a row before they went else where. > > > > Rangers are useful if those rangers can party and select the important targets, imo anyway. > > > > > > > > But I also like to pew pew from safety as you say :lol: > > Of course Rangers are helpful in zergs, but the reality is, if you're not a Spellbreaker, FB, Necro, Ele or Hammer Rev, you're not wanted in the zerg because you will never be as good as those professions. What I mean is, Mesmers, Thieves, Engys are in the same boat - better for roaming than zerging. > > During Meteor Storm week though, many Rangers came out to snipe down the Eles in the blob. Now they are towned down, a Ranger can still put some pressure on the Necros, as well as distract SB / FB / Revs, and maybe get them to pop their shields early. > > I think Odinens was only being pejorative towards solo roaming Rangers, because of course a Ranger shadowing a zerg must 'pew pew from safety as you aren't getting any of the protection or sustain that the Eles and Necros receive, as Rangers have to be on the flanks, outside of boons and protection. (this is of course assuming you were even invited into the squad in the first place) > > > @"geist.9173" said: > > I don't think "unblockable" should be in this game. It's completely dull mechanic. Get rid of it and nerf damage afterwards > > I'm ok with that, so long as they remove reflect as well. If the point is to set up a DPS window that is guaranteed to hit, having that window shut down by a reflect is just as terrible. > I've been playing zerg ranger all wrong then lmao :lol: I've been using mine as a commander pin snipe to disperse the enemy zergs and make them scatter like roaches Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shortcake.8659 Posted August 4, 2018 Share Posted August 4, 2018 > @"Xtinct.7031" said: > > @"shortcake.8659" said: > > i used a bunch of tomes to level a soulbeast yesterday for lols, threw some exotic marauder gear on it, cheap consumables no infusions etc. > > > > autoattack crit an ele for 9600, lel. then rapid fired unblockable quickness arrows into a minstrel firebrand for about 80% of his health. > > > > Then I got oneshot by a 23k malicious backstab from a deadeye that i saw for maybe half a second during an attack animation. > > > > Then he died instantly to a mesmer that cast about 3 abilities on top of me. > > > > I don't think berserk damage is too high, at all! THIS IS FANTASTIC GAMEPLAY! > > > > > > It is obvious that this is the meta gameplay Anet wants for wvw since conditions have been downgraded, it is just simply overtuned. For thief, yes, a 20k Backstab or Death's Justice with no malice build up is messed up. For mesmer, yes a 20k teleport shatter burst is messed up. For marauder scepter ele, yes they can oneshot too. > However, a quickening zephyr, sic em, one wolf pack rapid fire oneshot burst from 1800 range is just a special level of overtuned. I mean, anything with an auto-defense proc tends to not die(Endure pain, auto-stone, auto-S) and in most cases it doesn't come as a surprise since rangers have a bit more limited stealth options. Yeah, the damage is just silly, but the problem is that the damage in general is just too high. Berserker gear plus all the multipliers from traits these days are over the top for a lot of classes. It's not just a problem with soulbeast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archmagus.7249 Posted August 4, 2018 Share Posted August 4, 2018 I hate soulbeasts 99% of hits against them are 0 damage and I can't cc them. All while I get 100% crit by their auto attack. Then there's there pet which they swap out whenever it gets low on health. And it's not like it only lasts a few seconds like defy pain. We're talking more than 10 seconds or so. Too long for a fight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawdler.8521 Posted August 4, 2018 Share Posted August 4, 2018 > @"Artaz.3819" said: > Meta Soulbeast gets the jump on a Mirage. Alpha macro scripts, enter Beastmode (procs Zephyr's Speed for Quickness and Unstoppable Union for Unblockable + plus a host of bonus traits) grrr, insta-cast Sick'Em (rawr) followed by Point Blank Shot and then Rapid Fire opener (a 2s huge burst from long range!). > > Meta Mirage targets Soulbeast, insta casts Illusionary Ambush as reaction (+ has Evasive Mirror traited - standard in every build), gains Reflect for 2s and still gets hit by the Point Blank Shot (shot traveling to Mirage) plus full Rapid Fire, SB loses target/looks like cloak due to lag from IA, Mirage then does Soulbeast critical hit glass cannon damage plus adds any additional crit damage bonuses (i.e. GM Superiority Complex) back to Soulbeast while hard CC'd. > > Soulbeast is downed before full Rapid Fire completes. Mirage laughs. Mirage feels bad stomping. > > ^^ Not anecdotal, I can't even imagine being on the Soulbeast's end of that "fight". Good thing I was on Invisible so I couldn't be messaged. > Meta mirage apparently forgot that unblockable punch through reflect and would have instantly died had the meta soulbeast actually done what he thinks he did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junkpile.7439 Posted August 4, 2018 Share Posted August 4, 2018 Stop using cheese builds if you do too much dmg. Played marauder soulbeast yesterday and dmg was actually kind of low. 2k long range shots and full rapid fire did maybe little bit over 10k. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aeolus.3615 Posted August 4, 2018 Share Posted August 4, 2018 > @"Xtinct.7031" said: > I think some of you understand my view point. Let them keep the mobility/condition cleanse etc. Just cut down on some of the traited damage modifiers by 10-15%, its not going to kill the class. They just wont be able to 1 shot every class with just a point black and a rapid fire from 1800 range. I think class should have access to that when the player is the starter of the battle, and its on the back of the target. Imagine that ranger aplyes stealth and can actually ambush the target with a opener and start combat, when using a bow. Like i usually say, game lacks of alot of mechanics, direct high damage is more rewardable for players and Anet, since Anet does not care of prudcing decent combat mechanics since it would result to much hard for casuals to aply them. Well.. it's Gw2 ANet...it is very hard to expect decent work from these guys... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shortcake.8659 Posted August 4, 2018 Share Posted August 4, 2018 > @"Junkpile.7439" said: > Stop using cheese builds if you do too much dmg. Played marauder soulbeast yesterday and dmg was actually kind of low. 2k long range shots and full rapid fire did maybe little bit over 10k. Doesn't matter if you're running a cheese build or not, when the players running cheese builds can still kill you in less than two seconds regardless. Might as well go full reetard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChartFish.1308 Posted August 4, 2018 Share Posted August 4, 2018 > @"archmagus.7249" said: > I hate soulbeasts 99% of hits against them are 0 damage and I can't cc them. All while I get 100% crit by their auto attack. Then there's there pet which they swap out whenever it gets low on health. And it's not like it only lasts a few seconds like defy pain. We're talking more than 10 seconds or so. Too long for a fight. 99%? Lol they have 3sec of invuln against power and only 2 sources of stab. Whats the problem of swapping pet when its low on hp lmao, pet are so weak anyway that they're irrelevant. Surprisingly, a fight lasting longer than 10sec isn't a bad fight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sephiroth.4217 Posted August 5, 2018 Share Posted August 5, 2018 > @"ChartFish.1308" said: > > @"archmagus.7249" said: > > I hate soulbeasts 99% of hits against them are 0 damage and I can't cc them. All while I get 100% crit by their auto attack. Then there's there pet which they swap out whenever it gets low on health. And it's not like it only lasts a few seconds like defy pain. We're talking more than 10 seconds or so. Too long for a fight. > > 99%? Lol they have 3sec of invuln against power and only 2 sources of stab. Whats the problem of swapping pet when its low on hp lmao, pet are so weak anyway that they're irrelevant. > > Surprisingly, a fight lasting longer than 10sec isn't a bad fight. Take a black bear, 4 sources of power immunity + you can also use stances for condition immunity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChartFish.1308 Posted August 5, 2018 Share Posted August 5, 2018 > @"sephiroth.4217" said: > Take a black bear, 4 sources of power immunity + you can also use stances for condition immunity. I'm not saying it's not possible to get it, but be honest; how many people take bears, let alone a black bear. Brown bear *maybe*. Nobody uses black bear. Not to mention most people don't take MMS for stoneform, so again that's null. Also dolyak form only grants immunity to imobil, cripple and chill. No conditions that actually do damage, so nope Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dami.5046 Posted August 5, 2018 Share Posted August 5, 2018 For a class with so much hate you are giving it a whole lot of lovin' <3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oOStaticOo.9467 Posted August 5, 2018 Share Posted August 5, 2018 In all seriousness, leave Rangers alone. Unless you want to truly balance them by giving them some buffs to make them viable in large groups again. There is too much Ranger hate in WvW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pwent.2639 Posted August 5, 2018 Share Posted August 5, 2018 > @"DeadlySynz.3471" said: > Funny how some people complain rangers are too strong or out of control... > > A full zerk ranger attempting to shoot a tanky target hits on average 600-800 per AA. They are lucky if they can crack 2000 on a crit. That same tanky target (if they are running something like soldiers) does more damage on their AA to the ranger than the ranger will do to them on their AA, it's stupid. > > The set-up to land one giant hit as Sephiroth pointed out seems gimmicky at best and frankly just a hassle to even try to pull off against for the amount of reward in return. It's not that the Rangers do too much damage, it's that they do not do enough, at least to tanky targets. Up all their damage; if you died to a gimmicky 50K hit, what does it matter if you now die to a 70K hit? You are going to die regardless if the SB manages to pull off the combo. > > Playing on my hammer rev, their AA's are doing nearly 2.5x the amount of damage per strike, and that's in Marauder gear (not even zerker), than a ranger Their AA's seem to do more damage than rapid fire; and they have more utility. From my perspective, rangers need a heavy increase in damage, or at the very least some sort of ignoring armor capability. With 2.7k armor i was crit for a 8.5k soulbeast auto the other day. Yes 2.7k armor is not a lot, but it isnt glassy either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whoknocks.4935 Posted August 5, 2018 Share Posted August 5, 2018 As a roamer lately I am seeing lot of soulbeasts and druids around. Soulbeast is a cheesy spec similar to spellbreaker, pop unblockables plus longbow2 if you don't see it coming you are already at 20% health from 1500 range. If you survive that "dodging" they go stealth and unless another burst again while this time you are immobilized. They might be squishy and all, but have double the regen and the mobility of a warrior plus stealth and a pet who can attack you while you are simply running. Druid are instead a super low risk spec used by people who doesn't wanna put much effort in learning the game mechanics. With perma protection, stealth and good mobility they just kill you with their stupid sustained (not burst) damage. And if you land all your skills perfectly and drop them to 10% health, they pop celestial, and go back to 100% health in 3-4 seconds, going stealth as well. People complains a lot of spellbreakers, but you can kite them for days and dodge all their main skills to deny them completely so easy. Perma immob rangers are 10 times more braindead and stupid. And most of them even if makes 10 mistakes in a fight they exit up as winner because of the build and not because of personal skill level, the perfect example when a spec or build carries you. Scourge is the same, but scourge is just a stupid spammy profession, druids same as mesmer do their stupid skill rotation like in pve and win, nothing change in their battles. The rotation is always the same. Not to mention the longbow range way above 1500 in many cases. You use mobility skills for over 2k range and they just camping bow and running are able to still hit you with autoattacks xD that's just stupid. Bugged pets are a problem too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MUDse.7623 Posted August 5, 2018 Share Posted August 5, 2018 > @"whoknocks.4935" said: > . And most of them even if makes 10 mistakes in a fight they exit up as winner because of the build and not because of personal skill level, the perfect example when a spec or build carries you. Scourge is the same, but scourge is just a stupid spammy profession, druids same as mesmer do their stupid skill rotation like in pve and win, nothing change in their battles. The rotation is always the same. the rotation is more or less the same for every profession allways, just varies a little depending on the opponent. its not like we have 2000 skills to select from in 1 build so we can fight each encounter differently. yet how do you know if someone won by skill or not. if i make mistakes and survive was i bad because i made the mistake or was my opponent bad because he didnt punish me for it. i make many moves that could be seen as a mistake but i assume my opponent wont be able to utilize them and usually i am right. only if the fight is a mirror match you can say it is won by 'skill' or if you have a disadvantage to begin with, if you have the advantage in build or terrain you are expected to win. it is stupid to choose a build that has usually a disadvantage to begin with because this requires a bad opponent for you to win fights and usually you should be expecting to lose. the problem is if you choose a build that is rarely at a disadvantage most people will say your carried by your build, yet you just dont depend on bad opponents for a win. so play the strongest build you can come up with, fight against others that do the same and beat them, only then you can say you really won of skill and not because of and advantage or a terrible opponent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whoknocks.4935 Posted August 5, 2018 Share Posted August 5, 2018 > @"MUDse.7623" said: > > @"whoknocks.4935" said: > > . And most of them even if makes 10 mistakes in a fight they exit up as winner because of the build and not because of personal skill level, the perfect example when a spec or build carries you. Scourge is the same, but scourge is just a stupid spammy profession, druids same as mesmer do their stupid skill rotation like in pve and win, nothing change in their battles. The rotation is always the same. > the rotation is more or less the same for every profession allways, just varies a little depending on the opponent. its not like we have 2000 skills to select from in 1 build so we can fight each encounter differently. yet how do you know if someone won by skill or not. if i make mistakes and survive was i bad because i made the mistake or was my opponent bad because he didnt punish me for it. i make many moves that could be seen as a mistake but i assume my opponent wont be able to utilize them and usually i am right. only if the fight is a mirror match you can say it is won by 'skill' or if you have a disadvantage to begin with, if you have the advantage in build or terrain you are expected to win. it is stupid to choose a build that has usually a disadvantage to begin with because this requires a bad opponent for you to win fights and usually you should be expecting to lose. the problem is if you choose a build that is rarely at a disadvantage most people will say your carried by your build, yet you just dont depend on bad opponents for a win. so play the strongest build you can come up with, fight against others that do the same and beat them, only then you can say you really won of skill and not because of and advantage or a terrible opponent. > Even in mirror matches not always the skillest person wins the fight, but just a build difference can make that person win. For example if your enemy runs the dodge food, and you not. You are both so low and when you are about to kill him he get that dodge right on time and you have zero dodges and he wins. And that's not skill, just build set up advantage. Same as durability warrior vs full zerk warrior, the durability warrior can make way more mistakes and still get away with it, the full zerk makes a mistakes and he dies. For example the random protection proc of dura runes save him from a deadly eviscerate, and that's not skill at all. Just luck and build. Druid in my opinion is the profession carried the most by the build, I saw many fights in which some guy dueling a druid literally did all perfect landing every single skill and cc, but the perma protection and the stupid regen druid has made him win even if he didnt deserve it at all. Same as mirages coming from stealth who get you to 10% hp in 1 second, that's not skill at all. It's a pve rotation applied to pvp. To return to the topic, soulbeasts lately are a problem for this reason, they compete with druid mesmer and spellbreaker to be the lowest risk high reward specs in the game. You can't say that popping unblockables into longbow stun plus longbow2 is skill, plus double signet of stone and stealth, I don't see much difference from a spellbreaker to be honest, they are a spellbreaker with 1500 range and stealth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MUDse.7623 Posted August 5, 2018 Share Posted August 5, 2018 > @"whoknocks.4935" said: > > @"MUDse.7623" said: > > > @"whoknocks.4935" said: > > > . And most of them even if makes 10 mistakes in a fight they exit up as winner because of the build and not because of personal skill level, the perfect example when a spec or build carries you. Scourge is the same, but scourge is just a stupid spammy profession, druids same as mesmer do their stupid skill rotation like in pve and win, nothing change in their battles. The rotation is always the same. > > the rotation is more or less the same for every profession allways, just varies a little depending on the opponent. its not like we have 2000 skills to select from in 1 build so we can fight each encounter differently. yet how do you know if someone won by skill or not. if i make mistakes and survive was i bad because i made the mistake or was my opponent bad because he didnt punish me for it. i make many moves that could be seen as a mistake but i assume my opponent wont be able to utilize them and usually i am right. only if the fight is a mirror match you can say it is won by 'skill' or if you have a disadvantage to begin with, if you have the advantage in build or terrain you are expected to win. it is stupid to choose a build that has usually a disadvantage to begin with because this requires a bad opponent for you to win fights and usually you should be expecting to lose. the problem is if you choose a build that is rarely at a disadvantage most people will say your carried by your build, yet you just dont depend on bad opponents for a win. so play the strongest build you can come up with, fight against others that do the same and beat them, only then you can say you really won of skill and not because of and advantage or a terrible opponent. > > > > Even in mirror matches not always the skillest person wins the fight, but just a build difference can make that person win. For example if your enemy runs the dodge food, and you not. You are both so low and when you are about to kill him he get that dodge right on time and you have zero dodges and he wins. And that's not skill, just build set up advantage. Same as durability warrior vs full zerk warrior, the durability warrior can make way more mistakes and still get away with it, the full zerk makes a mistakes and he dies. For example the random protection proc of dura runes save him from a deadly eviscerate, and that's not skill at all. Just luck and build. how is it a mirror match if they run different traits/skills/stats/food? is your haricolour differnt when you look in a mirror? > Druid in my opinion is the profession carried the most by the build, I saw many fights in which some guy dueling a druid literally did all perfect landing every single skill and cc, but the perma protection and the stupid regen druid has made him win even if he didnt deserve it at all. that would just mean that druid is one of or the strongest spec to go for, if they make everything perfect within their build and still die then their mistake was the build choice or the terrain choice. doesnt mean they were better than the druid who might have made mistakes. knowing what mistakes you can make and when is important. > Same as mirages coming from stealth who get you to 10% hp in 1 second, that's not skill at all. It's a pve rotation applied to pvp. actually it is because he knew where you are and when you are there and you didnt know about his presence, so he was able to stack enough stealth out of your FoV to get close to you, nearly all types of applying/stacking stealth in this game has animations, if your not aware of your surroundings thats your bad. if your build simply cant defend against the burst of another build or avoid it, then again its poor build choice doesnt mean you are more skilled then the one bursting you. > To return to the topic, soulbeasts lately are a problem for this reason, they compete with druid mesmer and spellbreaker to be the lowest risk high reward specs in the game. You can't say that popping unblockables into longbow stun plus longbow2 is skill, plus double signet of stone and stealth, I don't see much difference from a spellbreaker to be honest, they are a spellbreaker with 1500 range and stealth. soulbeasts are very strong when they get the jump on you and they use a ton of cooldowns in their 'OP' burst and then got to wait for them again so they have a downtime on it. but because they depend on landing the burst in that few seconds, they can also be rather easily countered and killed. its a 1 trick pony in many cases, avoid the trick and kill the pony. they are indeed better than warriors but that is not difficult as warriors are one of the weakest professions for open field 1 vs 1 fight. no matter the build. cause their attacks are too easily avoided. and why exactly are soulbeast a problem now? because they got a high burst? thats not enought to be considered an Issue. as for risk vs reward that is completly irrelevant and mostly describes how a build will perform amongs bad player. the potential of a build when fighting good players is much more important for balance reasons not how difficult it is to execute. a warrior is indeed low risk, high reward among bad players. but they are too easily kited to be called strong and thus among good players they are high risk of losing low chance of winning, sure it might take a while as they are durable but the chances are not in their favor. 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whoknocks.4935 Posted August 6, 2018 Share Posted August 6, 2018 > @"MUDse.7623" said: > > @"whoknocks.4935" said: > > > @"MUDse.7623" said: > > > > @"whoknocks.4935" said: > > > > . And most of them even if makes 10 mistakes in a fight they exit up as winner because of the build and not because of personal skill level, the perfect example when a spec or build carries you. Scourge is the same, but scourge is just a stupid spammy profession, druids same as mesmer do their stupid skill rotation like in pve and win, nothing change in their battles. The rotation is always the same. > > > the rotation is more or less the same for every profession allways, just varies a little depending on the opponent. its not like we have 2000 skills to select from in 1 build so we can fight each encounter differently. yet how do you know if someone won by skill or not. if i make mistakes and survive was i bad because i made the mistake or was my opponent bad because he didnt punish me for it. i make many moves that could be seen as a mistake but i assume my opponent wont be able to utilize them and usually i am right. only if the fight is a mirror match you can say it is won by 'skill' or if you have a disadvantage to begin with, if you have the advantage in build or terrain you are expected to win. it is stupid to choose a build that has usually a disadvantage to begin with because this requires a bad opponent for you to win fights and usually you should be expecting to lose. the problem is if you choose a build that is rarely at a disadvantage most people will say your carried by your build, yet you just dont depend on bad opponents for a win. so play the strongest build you can come up with, fight against others that do the same and beat them, only then you can say you really won of skill and not because of and advantage or a terrible opponent. > > > > > > > Even in mirror matches not always the skillest person wins the fight, but just a build difference can make that person win. For example if your enemy runs the dodge food, and you not. You are both so low and when you are about to kill him he get that dodge right on time and you have zero dodges and he wins. And that's not skill, just build set up advantage. Same as durability warrior vs full zerk warrior, the durability warrior can make way more mistakes and still get away with it, the full zerk makes a mistakes and he dies. For example the random protection proc of dura runes save him from a deadly eviscerate, and that's not skill at all. Just luck and build. > how is it a mirror match if they run different traits/skills/stats/food? is your haricolour differnt when you look in a mirror? > > Druid in my opinion is the profession carried the most by the build, I saw many fights in which some guy dueling a druid literally did all perfect landing every single skill and cc, but the perma protection and the stupid regen druid has made him win even if he didnt deserve it at all. > that would just mean that druid is one of or the strongest spec to go for, if they make everything perfect within their build and still die then their mistake was the build choice or the terrain choice. doesnt mean they were better than the druid who might have made mistakes. knowing what mistakes you can make and when is important. > > Same as mirages coming from stealth who get you to 10% hp in 1 second, that's not skill at all. It's a pve rotation applied to pvp. > actually it is because he knew where you are and when you are there and you didnt know about his presence, so he was able to stack enough stealth out of your FoV to get close to you, nearly all types of applying/stacking stealth in this game has animations, if your not aware of your surroundings thats your bad. if your build simply cant defend against the burst of another build or avoid it, then again its poor build choice doesnt mean you are more skilled then the one bursting you. > > To return to the topic, soulbeasts lately are a problem for this reason, they compete with druid mesmer and spellbreaker to be the lowest risk high reward specs in the game. You can't say that popping unblockables into longbow stun plus longbow2 is skill, plus double signet of stone and stealth, I don't see much difference from a spellbreaker to be honest, they are a spellbreaker with 1500 range and stealth. > soulbeasts are very strong when they get the jump on you and they use a ton of cooldowns in their 'OP' burst and then got to wait for them again so they have a downtime on it. but because they depend on landing the burst in that few seconds, they can also be rather easily countered and killed. its a 1 trick pony in many cases, avoid the trick and kill the pony. they are indeed better than warriors but that is not difficult as warriors are one of the weakest professions for open field 1 vs 1 fight. no matter the build. cause their attacks are too easily avoided. and why exactly are soulbeast a problem now? because they got a high burst? thats not enought to be considered an Issue. as for risk vs reward that is completly irrelevant and mostly describes how a build will perform amongs bad player. the potential of a build when fighting good players is much more important for balance reasons not how difficult it is to execute. a warrior is indeed low risk, high reward among bad players. but they are too easily kited to be called strong and thus among good players they are high risk of losing low chance of winning, sure it might take a while as they are durable but the chances are not in their favor. > > The problem with soulbeast is high damage on top of mobility, sustain, and low risk game play. As I said is nothing, but a warrior with 1500 range and stealth options available. And it's way easier to outplay a warrior than a soulbeast. I don't play druid because I don't like the profession, super boring for me. I play what it's fun for me, but going against those cheesy profession who is obvious they don't win by skill level, but only by build it's just frustating that's all. You can outplay rangers it's true, but 90% of the wvw maps are open spaces, and even if there are trees and obstacle they seem to never effect the stupid longbow. And I repeat, last day while roaming a range was only using longbow and didnt switch weapon, i used a total of mobility skills for 2100 range and the arrow were still able to get me. If he is camping longbow he has zero mobility, only the swiftness walking, but zero leaps, I gained for sure more 1500 range and he still got me with the stupid projectiles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MUDse.7623 Posted August 6, 2018 Share Posted August 6, 2018 > @"whoknocks.4935" said: > > @"MUDse.7623" said: > > > @"whoknocks.4935" said: > > > > @"MUDse.7623" said: > > > > > @"whoknocks.4935" said: > > > > > . And most of them even if makes 10 mistakes in a fight they exit up as winner because of the build and not because of personal skill level, the perfect example when a spec or build carries you. Scourge is the same, but scourge is just a stupid spammy profession, druids same as mesmer do their stupid skill rotation like in pve and win, nothing change in their battles. The rotation is always the same. > > > > the rotation is more or less the same for every profession allways, just varies a little depending on the opponent. its not like we have 2000 skills to select from in 1 build so we can fight each encounter differently. yet how do you know if someone won by skill or not. if i make mistakes and survive was i bad because i made the mistake or was my opponent bad because he didnt punish me for it. i make many moves that could be seen as a mistake but i assume my opponent wont be able to utilize them and usually i am right. only if the fight is a mirror match you can say it is won by 'skill' or if you have a disadvantage to begin with, if you have the advantage in build or terrain you are expected to win. it is stupid to choose a build that has usually a disadvantage to begin with because this requires a bad opponent for you to win fights and usually you should be expecting to lose. the problem is if you choose a build that is rarely at a disadvantage most people will say your carried by your build, yet you just dont depend on bad opponents for a win. so play the strongest build you can come up with, fight against others that do the same and beat them, only then you can say you really won of skill and not because of and advantage or a terrible opponent. > > > > > > > > > > Even in mirror matches not always the skillest person wins the fight, but just a build difference can make that person win. For example if your enemy runs the dodge food, and you not. You are both so low and when you are about to kill him he get that dodge right on time and you have zero dodges and he wins. And that's not skill, just build set up advantage. Same as durability warrior vs full zerk warrior, the durability warrior can make way more mistakes and still get away with it, the full zerk makes a mistakes and he dies. For example the random protection proc of dura runes save him from a deadly eviscerate, and that's not skill at all. Just luck and build. > > how is it a mirror match if they run different traits/skills/stats/food? is your haricolour differnt when you look in a mirror? > > > Druid in my opinion is the profession carried the most by the build, I saw many fights in which some guy dueling a druid literally did all perfect landing every single skill and cc, but the perma protection and the stupid regen druid has made him win even if he didnt deserve it at all. > > that would just mean that druid is one of or the strongest spec to go for, if they make everything perfect within their build and still die then their mistake was the build choice or the terrain choice. doesnt mean they were better than the druid who might have made mistakes. knowing what mistakes you can make and when is important. > > > Same as mirages coming from stealth who get you to 10% hp in 1 second, that's not skill at all. It's a pve rotation applied to pvp. > > actually it is because he knew where you are and when you are there and you didnt know about his presence, so he was able to stack enough stealth out of your FoV to get close to you, nearly all types of applying/stacking stealth in this game has animations, if your not aware of your surroundings thats your bad. if your build simply cant defend against the burst of another build or avoid it, then again its poor build choice doesnt mean you are more skilled then the one bursting you. > > > To return to the topic, soulbeasts lately are a problem for this reason, they compete with druid mesmer and spellbreaker to be the lowest risk high reward specs in the game. You can't say that popping unblockables into longbow stun plus longbow2 is skill, plus double signet of stone and stealth, I don't see much difference from a spellbreaker to be honest, they are a spellbreaker with 1500 range and stealth. > > soulbeasts are very strong when they get the jump on you and they use a ton of cooldowns in their 'OP' burst and then got to wait for them again so they have a downtime on it. but because they depend on landing the burst in that few seconds, they can also be rather easily countered and killed. its a 1 trick pony in many cases, avoid the trick and kill the pony. they are indeed better than warriors but that is not difficult as warriors are one of the weakest professions for open field 1 vs 1 fight. no matter the build. cause their attacks are too easily avoided. and why exactly are soulbeast a problem now? because they got a high burst? thats not enought to be considered an Issue. as for risk vs reward that is completly irrelevant and mostly describes how a build will perform amongs bad player. the potential of a build when fighting good players is much more important for balance reasons not how difficult it is to execute. a warrior is indeed low risk, high reward among bad players. but they are too easily kited to be called strong and thus among good players they are high risk of losing low chance of winning, sure it might take a while as they are durable but the chances are not in their favor. > > > > > > The problem with soulbeast is high damage on top of mobility, sustain, and low risk game play. > As I said is nothing, but a warrior with 1500 range and stealth options available. And it's way easier to outplay a warrior than a soulbeast. > I don't play druid because I don't like the profession, super boring for me. > I play what it's fun for me, but going against those cheesy profession who is obvious they don't win by skill level, but only by build it's just frustating that's all. > You can outplay rangers it's true, but 90% of the wvw maps are open spaces, and even if there are trees and obstacle they seem to never effect the stupid longbow. > And I repeat, last day while roaming a range was only using longbow and didnt switch weapon, i used a total of mobility skills for 2100 range and the arrow were still able to get me. If he is camping longbow he has zero mobility, only the swiftness walking, but zero leaps, I gained for sure more 1500 range and he still got me with the stupid projectiles. again. if you choose a weak build you can never win yourself because your good, only because your opponents are bad, if this frustrates you, choose a stronger build and i am sure you will have more fun by being less frustrated. soulbeast can have 1,2k leap on 10s cd while on longbow if he merges with a bird for example, many soulbeasts seem to use owl lately. dont run from soulbeasts, attack them. if they really have mobility and sustain, their damage is not that high. yes a warrior is easier to outplay as their damage is easier to avoid and many roaming warriors depend on last stand + defy pain wich are controlled by their opponent. a warrior has only a favorable open field 1vs1 fight against a necro, all other classes should beat the warrior. but then again this game is not balanced around open field 1 vs 1 as there is no such mode, therefor its kinda pointless to argue about it as long as it has not too big of an impact on gameplay. sure there are more soulbeasts now but i dont see solo soulbeasts walking around killing everything in sight, because for that they lack survivability, options to escape, wich is the most important thing when walking around solo and the reason why thief allways has been number one solo roamer. in a group fight you just got to dodge soulbeast burst or for all i care just tank it, go down, get rezzed and enjoy that the soulbeast has long cooldown wich essentially puts your group in a better position that you might be able to finish the fight before the soulbeast can burst again with full dmg. 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