BlaqueFyre.5678 Posted August 7, 2018 Share Posted August 7, 2018 > @"Etheri.5406" said: > > @"BlaqueFyre.5678" said: > > > @"rng.1024" said: > > > > @"BlaqueFyre.5678" said: > > > > > @"rng.1024" said: > > > > > > @"BlaqueFyre.5678" said: > > > > > > > @"rng.1024" said: > > > > > > > > @"BlaqueFyre.5678" said: > > > > > > > > > @"rng.1024" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"RedShark.9548" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"rng.1024" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"RedShark.9548" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"rng.1024" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"RedShark.9548" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"rng.1024" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"RedShark.9548" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"GwAddict.9746" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"rng.1024" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Actually capping gear contributed stats isn't the worst idea. Hear me out: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > **3 stat gear** > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - Major stat caps at 1200 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - Minor stat caps at 900 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > **4 stat gear** > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - Major stat caps at 1050 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - Minor stat caps at 560 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > **7 stat gear (celestial)** > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - Just give it some love in this meta already, cap it at ascended values > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Now this should apply to every individual armor piece you are wearing. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ## Benefits: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - You can still mix and match gear unlike PvP > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - You keep every rune/sigil combo unlike PvP > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - Food, utilities, infusions, skills and traits allow you to exceed the gear cap (gives ascended gear and WvW infusions still an edge) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - PvE power remains untouched as you keep ascended values there > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - Allows the dev team to revert some skillsplits for consistency across gamemodes and do across the board changes in the future > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - We have upscale so the tech is already there > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is essentially the second option in the original post. Gears you equip will still have value but their power will be decreased to exotic level, so ascended won't have that advantage along with infusions. Also this won't devalue the legendary armor because you can still swap stats/runes at will. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Not my preferred choice but it's still way better than what we have currently. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > yes this would still greatly devalue my legy stuff because i could just get everything i wanna try out in exotics basically for free, because exotics are so easy to get its thrown at you > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > id want all my money refunded that i had to pump into my legy armor, which was like 1,5k gold, you know how many exotic sets i could get with that? more than all my inventorys could hold and more builds there will probably ever be > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What are you talking about? You would get the exotics at the same rate you do today, and the leggy armor would require exactly the same. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > exactly, id get the exotic basically for free (exotics are sooo easy to get) and rendering legendary stuff completely useless since they have the same stat value as those exotics i get thrown at me. why would i buy myself legendary gear? pls tell me, it would have no value at all since i could just get the exotics much cheaper > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > not sure what about that you dont understand, right now ascended is slightly better than exotic, making it very costly to try out new builds in full ascended, hence why its valuable to get legendary gear, because you can change stats and runes and thus try out builds at their full potential > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > if legendary and ascended had the same stats as exotics there wouldnt be any need to craft ascended gear. and since i can get exotics that easy i can just get a new set instead of an expensive legendary where i can change stats > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Let me explain: > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1. Ascended armor would still allow you to infuse them (and the weapon would increase your damage range), for a 90 point attribute bonus. This you wouldn't be able to get in exotic gear. > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2. Legendary gear would still have the added benefit of being able to change stats when out of combat. This would also not be possible with regular ascended or exotics. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So you are arguing the point that the only reason you had for crafting legendary gear, over exotics even, was to get that 5% increase in attributes? If we lowered all attribute values as per my suggestion (today ascended gear yield 1381 maximum to a top stat, meaning todays infusions benefit you (90/1381) 6,5%. With the lower maximum they would yield (90/1200) 7,5% benefit. Meaning you would lose the last 4 percent, but the entire idea was based around normalizing stats, already it is implicit the extremes are the ones that will have to make sacrifices. This way you would actually be rewarded more for putting in the effort of crafting ascended stuff. And if those 5% were your only reason why didn't you just craft regular ascended instead? Could have saved you alot of money. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And the reason I didn't get your argument is that you already can get exotics cheap and use them to try out your builds. It's still costly to try them in ascended. And it's still valuable to get legendary gear for that reason. My suggestion merely means an overall lowering of gears "full potential" across the board, and indirectly increase the discrepancy between those who use exotics and ascended/legendary in favor of those who put the time and effort into crafting them - nothing more. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > you still didnt get what i said. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > i said "try out builds at their FULL potential" thats the only reason legendary has any value. if i wanted to test them with exotic stats then id get them in exo. > > > > > > > > > > > > i already said that exotics are cheap af. > > > > > > > > > > > > and yes, i get ascended stuff to have more impact than some half kitten exotic builds, if it didnt have the stat advantage id have no reason to get them, mist ppl dont even have infusions in their armor btw, they only are a small amount of points > > > > > > > > > > > > i determine more time and money into wvw than other ppl that only run that cheap exo stuff, ofc i want to have a benefit from that > > > > > > > > > > > > pve ppl have to run ascended gear to get better results and solve the harder content, why should that be different in wvw??? in wvw those statpoints mostly make a difference in smallscale roaming, for zergs it makes almost no difference > > > > > > > > > > > > this whole ez to get stuff is just for lazy ppl > > > > > > > > > > > > ive played wvw for pretty much 5 years exlusively and dedicated my whole gear to that. if you normalize stats etc all my work would be for naught because all that could easily be reached by cheap kitten exotic gear that is farmed in like 5minutes in pve > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I still don't get your issue - you just said that those statpoints makes almost no difference. Then why are you fighting so hard to keep them? And I will try again: > > > > > > > > > > > The extra stats you currently get from ascended/legendary gear would be transferred into the infusions instead - the full potential would still be the same. The benefit from having ascended gear would still be the same. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And your argument for farming exotic gear: > > > > > > > > > > > - You would have lower dmg range (as is the case today > > > > > > > > > > > - You would lose out on the 7,5% increased stats (today you lose out on 6,5% actually) > > > > > > > > > > > - You still wouldn't be able to statswap since it's not legendary. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It would help alot if you could describe exactly what it is that would make your effort of getting ascended gear void with this change, because frankly I see only more reason to go for it as this would be a slight nerf to lvl 80 exotics as they exist today, and you would gain more stat difference by using your infusions than you currently do - hence a reason to get ascended. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > because the stats make no difference in zerging, but i also roam, and i want those stat advantages in roaming when i put more effort into it > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > do you mean that ascended gear gets lowered to exotic and exotics get lowered aswell? i understood it that way that ascended have the same stats as exotics, hence there wouldnt be any reason to get ascended, except infusion slots > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yeah you pretty much nailed it there - that is what I meant, that ascended become the new exotics and current exotics get lowered an equal amount, leaving infusions as the main contributor to the difference between the exotic and ascended instead of the inherent stats we have today. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Even better if we upped the infusions from 5 to 10 so that we would get 180 extra points for a full set - this would be a whooping 17% difference instead of the 5% bonus ascended give us now - but it would all be done with infusions, which would only be obtainable by getting ascended gear. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Or just leave it as is, since gear isn’t hard to acquire by any means, it is handed out just by playing the gamemode.... since your idea would still have a stat discrepancy... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The effort in question was to normalize gear in WvW. This would achieve exactly that, without ignoring the time and effort spent by players in order to obtain ascended gear. > > > > > > > Normalize = Lower the difference between bottom and top tier stat allocation, here with exotics being the bottom and ascended the top. With the added benefit of lowering both extremes, meaning every attribute point would matter more than they currently do, encouraging build variety. > > > > > > > > > > > > It doesn’t normalize them in anyway since you even stated fully infused out would have a higher percentage of stats over the current iteration...... making it less normalized... just because you lower both stats on Ascended and exotic mean nothing to normalize them, especially if you put in a way to make a larger stat disparity, it’s more cost effective for Anet to leave it as is vs your suggestion. > > > > > > > > > > in case you didn't notice I left out the infusion contribution of todays ascended gear. So you will lose those 5%, but gain 1% back through infusions, but the major benefit would still be the increase in weapon strength going from exotic to ascended. By lowering stats and controlling exactly how much you can go over the cap through infusions, food, utilities and traits would indeed normalize the mode, meaning every attribute point would count for more. > > > > > > > > > > Why should ascended armor have the same value as exotics? It makes no sense to me to ignore this. So of course there should still be a stat disparity, it is only fair. But it's all about not making it too big, which is seen today evident in the builds that benefit heavily on 1 stat investments. You have to realise only the extremes will be affected by this change, which was the goal all along - to bring them closer to eachother while maintaining their respective top/bottom positions. > > > > > > > > > > As for cost effective: > > > > > Should anet spend workhours on a multitude of balance patches trying to reign in overperforming builds as they present themselves, what runes/sigils to disable, food/utility to nerf and what professions to rework? > > > > > Or > > > > > Should they use the already in place upscale mechanic once in order to minimize potential outliers and give them full control over the raw numbers available to players? > > > > > > > > > > Because only one of those options would upset part of their customer base. > > > > > > > > Again your suggestion isn’t normalizing anything, all it is doing is changing the values and leaving a disparity, and would be extremely cost ineffective for Anet since it doesn’t change anything... > > > > > > > > Your proposed stat disparity isn’t big? Your stat disparity in your own words would be much larger percentage wise than it currently is over exotics.... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That was if they doubled the infusion values. With the current values you would lose the 5% extra stats, keep the increased damage range and infusions would count for 1% more of your total attribute pool. It's a nerf - but since the proposed gear normalization was set to slightly lower than lvl 80 gear, this means the exotics would be slightly nerfed too and we somewhat keep the same disparity as would be without infusions - but these would now be 100% tied to infusions and ascended weapons, so there's more progression to it than just getting an ascended piece. > > > > > > The change is intended to give clear cut min/max values, and indirectly cap the efficiency of compounding traits without taking away the core philosophy of the gamemode. The only reason the disparity remains is out of respect to those who feel they've invested too much in it already - if you don't listen to them how do you expect them to listen to you? > > > > There are already clear cut min max values, since all values are known and lowering the value doesn’t change that in the slightest..... that is pure common sense. Since you aren’t removing any stat disparity then there is zero reason to do this it would be wasted effort.... > > Current min max values are far higher than those for the PvP system; which is in part problematic. Furthermore, you do remove stat disparity as anyone actually has access to any build. Half the stats used in WvW are far from trivial to get. As far as I'm aware a basic WvW firebrand build is what; 500g? OH wait no you can just wait huge sums on an exotic version because of the minstrel insignia's and crafting costs. Assuming you can craft it of course ;) > > Both high end (reducing amount of stats) and low end (allowing all players to have similar stat values and spreads rather than requiring dedicated WvW builds; WvW overall improves by allowing players to jump in and play PROPERLY. Rather than jumping into PVE to grind for months only to unlock access to play proper - something GW2 was never about. > > The common sense you refer to is too much common and too little sense. You should actually think about things. > > WvW main with 3x legendary armor sets. WvW shouldn't be gear reliant and the fact that half the "good" WvW builds are NOT available in exotic / cheap gear makes the problem far worse. > > There are three arguments against : > -Not worth the effort - not like WvW is getting updates and i'd rather get different ones > -"QQ but my armor i worked for" - you can use it in PvE like anyone else and you can now run ANY build you like. The only thing you lose is being on even footing as everyone else... Oh wait, I can see why that scares many even "experienced" players ;) > -Sense of progression by ^above players who spent all this time making their character stronger but miserably failed at getting better. If you're a vet in the game, you should be able to outplay new players off knowledge and skill perfectly fine. If you're not capable of that; you very well deserve to lose. > > WvW being linked to PvE gear doesn't benefit it. Sorry but you don’t have to use any gold to get any stats for WvW since every stat is handed out in Reward tracks at exotic rarity and for Ascended gear with any stats don’t cost that much from WvW crafting isn’t even required, smh, just playing the gamemode gets everything for cheap, but hey I know facts are hard.... Players don’t have to grind PvE to get any gear, all gear and all stats are easily accessible solely form WvW for cheap... it’s like *certain people* don’t even play the game or know what they are talking about.. PvP doesn’t have stat disparities while the suggestion that I was referring to still has disparities, and based on the suggestion the percentage of the disparity is over triple the current disparity between exotic vs Ascended, again it’s simple common sense that the second suggestion solves absolutely nothing and only adds unnecessary work on the Devs, to make it so *certain people* don’t have to put in the effort/time that others have, but I get it *certain people* don’t care that other’s effort and time gets completely invalidated as long as those *certain people* get what they want for zero effort. Again WvW was never designed to be structured, that’s why it’s not sWvW, if players want to have an even playing field stat wise Anet provides that Gamemode it’s called sPvP. 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Etheri.5406 Posted August 7, 2018 Share Posted August 7, 2018 > @"BlaqueFyre.5678" said: > > @"Etheri.5406" said: > > > @"BlaqueFyre.5678" said: > > > > @"rng.1024" said: > > > > > @"BlaqueFyre.5678" said: > > > > > > @"rng.1024" said: > > > > > > > @"BlaqueFyre.5678" said: > > > > > > > > @"rng.1024" said: > > > > > > > > > @"BlaqueFyre.5678" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"rng.1024" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"RedShark.9548" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"rng.1024" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"RedShark.9548" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"rng.1024" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"RedShark.9548" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"rng.1024" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"RedShark.9548" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"GwAddict.9746" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"rng.1024" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Actually capping gear contributed stats isn't the worst idea. Hear me out: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > **3 stat gear** > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - Major stat caps at 1200 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - Minor stat caps at 900 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > **4 stat gear** > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - Major stat caps at 1050 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - Minor stat caps at 560 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > **7 stat gear (celestial)** > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - Just give it some love in this meta already, cap it at ascended values > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Now this should apply to every individual armor piece you are wearing. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ## Benefits: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - You can still mix and match gear unlike PvP > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - You keep every rune/sigil combo unlike PvP > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - Food, utilities, infusions, skills and traits allow you to exceed the gear cap (gives ascended gear and WvW infusions still an edge) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - PvE power remains untouched as you keep ascended values there > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - Allows the dev team to revert some skillsplits for consistency across gamemodes and do across the board changes in the future > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - We have upscale so the tech is already there > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is essentially the second option in the original post. Gears you equip will still have value but their power will be decreased to exotic level, so ascended won't have that advantage along with infusions. Also this won't devalue the legendary armor because you can still swap stats/runes at will. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Not my preferred choice but it's still way better than what we have currently. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > yes this would still greatly devalue my legy stuff because i could just get everything i wanna try out in exotics basically for free, because exotics are so easy to get its thrown at you > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > id want all my money refunded that i had to pump into my legy armor, which was like 1,5k gold, you know how many exotic sets i could get with that? more than all my inventorys could hold and more builds there will probably ever be > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What are you talking about? You would get the exotics at the same rate you do today, and the leggy armor would require exactly the same. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > exactly, id get the exotic basically for free (exotics are sooo easy to get) and rendering legendary stuff completely useless since they have the same stat value as those exotics i get thrown at me. why would i buy myself legendary gear? pls tell me, it would have no value at all since i could just get the exotics much cheaper > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > not sure what about that you dont understand, right now ascended is slightly better than exotic, making it very costly to try out new builds in full ascended, hence why its valuable to get legendary gear, because you can change stats and runes and thus try out builds at their full potential > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > if legendary and ascended had the same stats as exotics there wouldnt be any need to craft ascended gear. and since i can get exotics that easy i can just get a new set instead of an expensive legendary where i can change stats > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Let me explain: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1. Ascended armor would still allow you to infuse them (and the weapon would increase your damage range), for a 90 point attribute bonus. This you wouldn't be able to get in exotic gear. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2. Legendary gear would still have the added benefit of being able to change stats when out of combat. This would also not be possible with regular ascended or exotics. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So you are arguing the point that the only reason you had for crafting legendary gear, over exotics even, was to get that 5% increase in attributes? If we lowered all attribute values as per my suggestion (today ascended gear yield 1381 maximum to a top stat, meaning todays infusions benefit you (90/1381) 6,5%. With the lower maximum they would yield (90/1200) 7,5% benefit. Meaning you would lose the last 4 percent, but the entire idea was based around normalizing stats, already it is implicit the extremes are the ones that will have to make sacrifices. This way you would actually be rewarded more for putting in the effort of crafting ascended stuff. And if those 5% were your only reason why didn't you just craft regular ascended instead? Could have saved you alot of money. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And the reason I didn't get your argument is that you already can get exotics cheap and use them to try out your builds. It's still costly to try them in ascended. And it's still valuable to get legendary gear for that reason. My suggestion merely means an overall lowering of gears "full potential" across the board, and indirectly increase the discrepancy between those who use exotics and ascended/legendary in favor of those who put the time and effort into crafting them - nothing more. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > you still didnt get what i said. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > i said "try out builds at their FULL potential" thats the only reason legendary has any value. if i wanted to test them with exotic stats then id get them in exo. > > > > > > > > > > > > > i already said that exotics are cheap af. > > > > > > > > > > > > > and yes, i get ascended stuff to have more impact than some half kitten exotic builds, if it didnt have the stat advantage id have no reason to get them, mist ppl dont even have infusions in their armor btw, they only are a small amount of points > > > > > > > > > > > > > i determine more time and money into wvw than other ppl that only run that cheap exo stuff, ofc i want to have a benefit from that > > > > > > > > > > > > > pve ppl have to run ascended gear to get better results and solve the harder content, why should that be different in wvw??? in wvw those statpoints mostly make a difference in smallscale roaming, for zergs it makes almost no difference > > > > > > > > > > > > > this whole ez to get stuff is just for lazy ppl > > > > > > > > > > > > > ive played wvw for pretty much 5 years exlusively and dedicated my whole gear to that. if you normalize stats etc all my work would be for naught because all that could easily be reached by cheap kitten exotic gear that is farmed in like 5minutes in pve > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I still don't get your issue - you just said that those statpoints makes almost no difference. Then why are you fighting so hard to keep them? And I will try again: > > > > > > > > > > > > The extra stats you currently get from ascended/legendary gear would be transferred into the infusions instead - the full potential would still be the same. The benefit from having ascended gear would still be the same. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And your argument for farming exotic gear: > > > > > > > > > > > > - You would have lower dmg range (as is the case today > > > > > > > > > > > > - You would lose out on the 7,5% increased stats (today you lose out on 6,5% actually) > > > > > > > > > > > > - You still wouldn't be able to statswap since it's not legendary. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It would help alot if you could describe exactly what it is that would make your effort of getting ascended gear void with this change, because frankly I see only more reason to go for it as this would be a slight nerf to lvl 80 exotics as they exist today, and you would gain more stat difference by using your infusions than you currently do - hence a reason to get ascended. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > because the stats make no difference in zerging, but i also roam, and i want those stat advantages in roaming when i put more effort into it > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > do you mean that ascended gear gets lowered to exotic and exotics get lowered aswell? i understood it that way that ascended have the same stats as exotics, hence there wouldnt be any reason to get ascended, except infusion slots > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yeah you pretty much nailed it there - that is what I meant, that ascended become the new exotics and current exotics get lowered an equal amount, leaving infusions as the main contributor to the difference between the exotic and ascended instead of the inherent stats we have today. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Even better if we upped the infusions from 5 to 10 so that we would get 180 extra points for a full set - this would be a whooping 17% difference instead of the 5% bonus ascended give us now - but it would all be done with infusions, which would only be obtainable by getting ascended gear. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Or just leave it as is, since gear isn’t hard to acquire by any means, it is handed out just by playing the gamemode.... since your idea would still have a stat discrepancy... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The effort in question was to normalize gear in WvW. This would achieve exactly that, without ignoring the time and effort spent by players in order to obtain ascended gear. > > > > > > > > Normalize = Lower the difference between bottom and top tier stat allocation, here with exotics being the bottom and ascended the top. With the added benefit of lowering both extremes, meaning every attribute point would matter more than they currently do, encouraging build variety. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It doesn’t normalize them in anyway since you even stated fully infused out would have a higher percentage of stats over the current iteration...... making it less normalized... just because you lower both stats on Ascended and exotic mean nothing to normalize them, especially if you put in a way to make a larger stat disparity, it’s more cost effective for Anet to leave it as is vs your suggestion. > > > > > > > > > > > > in case you didn't notice I left out the infusion contribution of todays ascended gear. So you will lose those 5%, but gain 1% back through infusions, but the major benefit would still be the increase in weapon strength going from exotic to ascended. By lowering stats and controlling exactly how much you can go over the cap through infusions, food, utilities and traits would indeed normalize the mode, meaning every attribute point would count for more. > > > > > > > > > > > > Why should ascended armor have the same value as exotics? It makes no sense to me to ignore this. So of course there should still be a stat disparity, it is only fair. But it's all about not making it too big, which is seen today evident in the builds that benefit heavily on 1 stat investments. You have to realise only the extremes will be affected by this change, which was the goal all along - to bring them closer to eachother while maintaining their respective top/bottom positions. > > > > > > > > > > > > As for cost effective: > > > > > > Should anet spend workhours on a multitude of balance patches trying to reign in overperforming builds as they present themselves, what runes/sigils to disable, food/utility to nerf and what professions to rework? > > > > > > Or > > > > > > Should they use the already in place upscale mechanic once in order to minimize potential outliers and give them full control over the raw numbers available to players? > > > > > > > > > > > > Because only one of those options would upset part of their customer base. > > > > > > > > > > Again your suggestion isn’t normalizing anything, all it is doing is changing the values and leaving a disparity, and would be extremely cost ineffective for Anet since it doesn’t change anything... > > > > > > > > > > Your proposed stat disparity isn’t big? Your stat disparity in your own words would be much larger percentage wise than it currently is over exotics.... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That was if they doubled the infusion values. With the current values you would lose the 5% extra stats, keep the increased damage range and infusions would count for 1% more of your total attribute pool. It's a nerf - but since the proposed gear normalization was set to slightly lower than lvl 80 gear, this means the exotics would be slightly nerfed too and we somewhat keep the same disparity as would be without infusions - but these would now be 100% tied to infusions and ascended weapons, so there's more progression to it than just getting an ascended piece. > > > > > > > > The change is intended to give clear cut min/max values, and indirectly cap the efficiency of compounding traits without taking away the core philosophy of the gamemode. The only reason the disparity remains is out of respect to those who feel they've invested too much in it already - if you don't listen to them how do you expect them to listen to you? > > > > > > There are already clear cut min max values, since all values are known and lowering the value doesn’t change that in the slightest..... that is pure common sense. Since you aren’t removing any stat disparity then there is zero reason to do this it would be wasted effort.... > > > > Current min max values are far higher than those for the PvP system; which is in part problematic. Furthermore, you do remove stat disparity as anyone actually has access to any build. Half the stats used in WvW are far from trivial to get. As far as I'm aware a basic WvW firebrand build is what; 500g? OH wait no you can just wait huge sums on an exotic version because of the minstrel insignia's and crafting costs. Assuming you can craft it of course ;) > > > > Both high end (reducing amount of stats) and low end (allowing all players to have similar stat values and spreads rather than requiring dedicated WvW builds; WvW overall improves by allowing players to jump in and play PROPERLY. Rather than jumping into PVE to grind for months only to unlock access to play proper - something GW2 was never about. > > > > The common sense you refer to is too much common and too little sense. You should actually think about things. > > > > WvW main with 3x legendary armor sets. WvW shouldn't be gear reliant and the fact that half the "good" WvW builds are NOT available in exotic / cheap gear makes the problem far worse. > > > > There are three arguments against : > > -Not worth the effort - not like WvW is getting updates and i'd rather get different ones > > -"QQ but my armor i worked for" - you can use it in PvE like anyone else and you can now run ANY build you like. The only thing you lose is being on even footing as everyone else... Oh wait, I can see why that scares many even "experienced" players ;) > > -Sense of progression by ^above players who spent all this time making their character stronger but miserably failed at getting better. If you're a vet in the game, you should be able to outplay new players off knowledge and skill perfectly fine. If you're not capable of that; you very well deserve to lose. > > > > WvW being linked to PvE gear doesn't benefit it. > > Sorry but you don’t have to use any gold to get any stats for WvW since every stat is handed out in Reward tracks at exotic rarity and for Ascended gear with any stats don’t cost that much from WvW, just playing the gamemode gets everything for cheap, but hey I know facts are hard.... Players don’t have to grind PvE to get any gear, all gear and all stats are easily accessible solely form WvW for cheap... it’s like *certain people* don’t even play the game or know what they are talking about.. > > PvP doesn’t have stat disparities while the suggestion that I was referring to still has disparities, and based on the suggestion the percentage of the disparity is over triple the current disparity between exotic vs Ascended, again it’s simple common sense that the second suggestion solves absolutely nothing and only adds unnecessary work on the Devs, to make it so *certain people* can be lazy and not put in the effort/time that others have, but I get it *certain people* don’t care that other’s effort and time gets completely invalidated as long as those *certain people* get what they want for zero effort. > > Again WvW was never designed to be structured, that’s why it’s not sWvW, if players want to have an even playing field stat wise Anet provides that Gamemode it’s called sPvP. Yeah "only" takes them hmh. 5+ reward tracks per trinket (ascended). 6 reward tracks armor. 2-4 reward tracks weapons. = 30+ reward tracks for one geared character * 8 hours = more than 250 hours to gear a character. I wonder why playres end up doing PvE for it. :trollface: I'm sorry that I actually play the game at a reasonable level, where I rather do... I don't know, 15 hours of raidclears per month giving me a full free ascended set rather than playing 6 months of 60+ hours per month of WvW for that same stuff. OH WAIT. It's almost like math basics are hard. Why exactly should a new player have to grind for months to be on the same level as us? You've had far more time to practise, isn't that enough? Again; your "effort" is a joke. I'm literally sitting on 3 full legendary armors and enough ascended weapons to be able to run any build you could imagine on a whim. "Endgame" bois. Because I'm capable of ... doing 3 hours of PvE per week along my 15+ hours of WVW. Because simple math tells me that using WvW tickets on something as trivial as ascended armor is an absolute waste of time and effort compared to other methods of acquisition. Bad players thinking their "effort" in grinding gear and failing to improve for years should give them an advantage over new players and rationalizing it with things like "it's not designed to be fair, it's designed to allow me advantages!" Well then; I'll continue to kick any random that isn't capable of adapting their build on a whim like I am. Because frankly; I don't care. Roamers seem to do tho :trollface: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlaqueFyre.5678 Posted August 7, 2018 Share Posted August 7, 2018 > @"Etheri.5406" said: > > @"BlaqueFyre.5678" said: > > > @"Etheri.5406" said: > > > > @"BlaqueFyre.5678" said: > > > > > @"rng.1024" said: > > > > > > @"BlaqueFyre.5678" said: > > > > > > > @"rng.1024" said: > > > > > > > > @"BlaqueFyre.5678" said: > > > > > > > > > @"rng.1024" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"BlaqueFyre.5678" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"rng.1024" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"RedShark.9548" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"rng.1024" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"RedShark.9548" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"rng.1024" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"RedShark.9548" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"rng.1024" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"RedShark.9548" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"GwAddict.9746" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"rng.1024" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Actually capping gear contributed stats isn't the worst idea. Hear me out: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > **3 stat gear** > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - Major stat caps at 1200 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - Minor stat caps at 900 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > **4 stat gear** > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - Major stat caps at 1050 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - Minor stat caps at 560 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > **7 stat gear (celestial)** > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - Just give it some love in this meta already, cap it at ascended values > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Now this should apply to every individual armor piece you are wearing. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ## Benefits: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - You can still mix and match gear unlike PvP > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - You keep every rune/sigil combo unlike PvP > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - Food, utilities, infusions, skills and traits allow you to exceed the gear cap (gives ascended gear and WvW infusions still an edge) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - PvE power remains untouched as you keep ascended values there > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - Allows the dev team to revert some skillsplits for consistency across gamemodes and do across the board changes in the future > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - We have upscale so the tech is already there > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is essentially the second option in the original post. Gears you equip will still have value but their power will be decreased to exotic level, so ascended won't have that advantage along with infusions. Also this won't devalue the legendary armor because you can still swap stats/runes at will. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Not my preferred choice but it's still way better than what we have currently. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > yes this would still greatly devalue my legy stuff because i could just get everything i wanna try out in exotics basically for free, because exotics are so easy to get its thrown at you > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > id want all my money refunded that i had to pump into my legy armor, which was like 1,5k gold, you know how many exotic sets i could get with that? more than all my inventorys could hold and more builds there will probably ever be > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What are you talking about? You would get the exotics at the same rate you do today, and the leggy armor would require exactly the same. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > exactly, id get the exotic basically for free (exotics are sooo easy to get) and rendering legendary stuff completely useless since they have the same stat value as those exotics i get thrown at me. why would i buy myself legendary gear? pls tell me, it would have no value at all since i could just get the exotics much cheaper > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > not sure what about that you dont understand, right now ascended is slightly better than exotic, making it very costly to try out new builds in full ascended, hence why its valuable to get legendary gear, because you can change stats and runes and thus try out builds at their full potential > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > if legendary and ascended had the same stats as exotics there wouldnt be any need to craft ascended gear. and since i can get exotics that easy i can just get a new set instead of an expensive legendary where i can change stats > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Let me explain: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1. Ascended armor would still allow you to infuse them (and the weapon would increase your damage range), for a 90 point attribute bonus. This you wouldn't be able to get in exotic gear. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2. Legendary gear would still have the added benefit of being able to change stats when out of combat. This would also not be possible with regular ascended or exotics. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So you are arguing the point that the only reason you had for crafting legendary gear, over exotics even, was to get that 5% increase in attributes? If we lowered all attribute values as per my suggestion (today ascended gear yield 1381 maximum to a top stat, meaning todays infusions benefit you (90/1381) 6,5%. With the lower maximum they would yield (90/1200) 7,5% benefit. Meaning you would lose the last 4 percent, but the entire idea was based around normalizing stats, already it is implicit the extremes are the ones that will have to make sacrifices. This way you would actually be rewarded more for putting in the effort of crafting ascended stuff. And if those 5% were your only reason why didn't you just craft regular ascended instead? Could have saved you alot of money. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And the reason I didn't get your argument is that you already can get exotics cheap and use them to try out your builds. It's still costly to try them in ascended. And it's still valuable to get legendary gear for that reason. My suggestion merely means an overall lowering of gears "full potential" across the board, and indirectly increase the discrepancy between those who use exotics and ascended/legendary in favor of those who put the time and effort into crafting them - nothing more. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > you still didnt get what i said. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > i said "try out builds at their FULL potential" thats the only reason legendary has any value. if i wanted to test them with exotic stats then id get them in exo. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > i already said that exotics are cheap af. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and yes, i get ascended stuff to have more impact than some half kitten exotic builds, if it didnt have the stat advantage id have no reason to get them, mist ppl dont even have infusions in their armor btw, they only are a small amount of points > > > > > > > > > > > > > > i determine more time and money into wvw than other ppl that only run that cheap exo stuff, ofc i want to have a benefit from that > > > > > > > > > > > > > > pve ppl have to run ascended gear to get better results and solve the harder content, why should that be different in wvw??? in wvw those statpoints mostly make a difference in smallscale roaming, for zergs it makes almost no difference > > > > > > > > > > > > > > this whole ez to get stuff is just for lazy ppl > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ive played wvw for pretty much 5 years exlusively and dedicated my whole gear to that. if you normalize stats etc all my work would be for naught because all that could easily be reached by cheap kitten exotic gear that is farmed in like 5minutes in pve > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I still don't get your issue - you just said that those statpoints makes almost no difference. Then why are you fighting so hard to keep them? And I will try again: > > > > > > > > > > > > > The extra stats you currently get from ascended/legendary gear would be transferred into the infusions instead - the full potential would still be the same. The benefit from having ascended gear would still be the same. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And your argument for farming exotic gear: > > > > > > > > > > > > > - You would have lower dmg range (as is the case today > > > > > > > > > > > > > - You would lose out on the 7,5% increased stats (today you lose out on 6,5% actually) > > > > > > > > > > > > > - You still wouldn't be able to statswap since it's not legendary. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It would help alot if you could describe exactly what it is that would make your effort of getting ascended gear void with this change, because frankly I see only more reason to go for it as this would be a slight nerf to lvl 80 exotics as they exist today, and you would gain more stat difference by using your infusions than you currently do - hence a reason to get ascended. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > because the stats make no difference in zerging, but i also roam, and i want those stat advantages in roaming when i put more effort into it > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > do you mean that ascended gear gets lowered to exotic and exotics get lowered aswell? i understood it that way that ascended have the same stats as exotics, hence there wouldnt be any reason to get ascended, except infusion slots > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yeah you pretty much nailed it there - that is what I meant, that ascended become the new exotics and current exotics get lowered an equal amount, leaving infusions as the main contributor to the difference between the exotic and ascended instead of the inherent stats we have today. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Even better if we upped the infusions from 5 to 10 so that we would get 180 extra points for a full set - this would be a whooping 17% difference instead of the 5% bonus ascended give us now - but it would all be done with infusions, which would only be obtainable by getting ascended gear. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Or just leave it as is, since gear isn’t hard to acquire by any means, it is handed out just by playing the gamemode.... since your idea would still have a stat discrepancy... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The effort in question was to normalize gear in WvW. This would achieve exactly that, without ignoring the time and effort spent by players in order to obtain ascended gear. > > > > > > > > > Normalize = Lower the difference between bottom and top tier stat allocation, here with exotics being the bottom and ascended the top. With the added benefit of lowering both extremes, meaning every attribute point would matter more than they currently do, encouraging build variety. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It doesn’t normalize them in anyway since you even stated fully infused out would have a higher percentage of stats over the current iteration...... making it less normalized... just because you lower both stats on Ascended and exotic mean nothing to normalize them, especially if you put in a way to make a larger stat disparity, it’s more cost effective for Anet to leave it as is vs your suggestion. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > in case you didn't notice I left out the infusion contribution of todays ascended gear. So you will lose those 5%, but gain 1% back through infusions, but the major benefit would still be the increase in weapon strength going from exotic to ascended. By lowering stats and controlling exactly how much you can go over the cap through infusions, food, utilities and traits would indeed normalize the mode, meaning every attribute point would count for more. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Why should ascended armor have the same value as exotics? It makes no sense to me to ignore this. So of course there should still be a stat disparity, it is only fair. But it's all about not making it too big, which is seen today evident in the builds that benefit heavily on 1 stat investments. You have to realise only the extremes will be affected by this change, which was the goal all along - to bring them closer to eachother while maintaining their respective top/bottom positions. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As for cost effective: > > > > > > > Should anet spend workhours on a multitude of balance patches trying to reign in overperforming builds as they present themselves, what runes/sigils to disable, food/utility to nerf and what professions to rework? > > > > > > > Or > > > > > > > Should they use the already in place upscale mechanic once in order to minimize potential outliers and give them full control over the raw numbers available to players? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Because only one of those options would upset part of their customer base. > > > > > > > > > > > > Again your suggestion isn’t normalizing anything, all it is doing is changing the values and leaving a disparity, and would be extremely cost ineffective for Anet since it doesn’t change anything... > > > > > > > > > > > > Your proposed stat disparity isn’t big? Your stat disparity in your own words would be much larger percentage wise than it currently is over exotics.... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That was if they doubled the infusion values. With the current values you would lose the 5% extra stats, keep the increased damage range and infusions would count for 1% more of your total attribute pool. It's a nerf - but since the proposed gear normalization was set to slightly lower than lvl 80 gear, this means the exotics would be slightly nerfed too and we somewhat keep the same disparity as would be without infusions - but these would now be 100% tied to infusions and ascended weapons, so there's more progression to it than just getting an ascended piece. > > > > > > > > > > The change is intended to give clear cut min/max values, and indirectly cap the efficiency of compounding traits without taking away the core philosophy of the gamemode. The only reason the disparity remains is out of respect to those who feel they've invested too much in it already - if you don't listen to them how do you expect them to listen to you? > > > > > > > > There are already clear cut min max values, since all values are known and lowering the value doesn’t change that in the slightest..... that is pure common sense. Since you aren’t removing any stat disparity then there is zero reason to do this it would be wasted effort.... > > > > > > Current min max values are far higher than those for the PvP system; which is in part problematic. Furthermore, you do remove stat disparity as anyone actually has access to any build. Half the stats used in WvW are far from trivial to get. As far as I'm aware a basic WvW firebrand build is what; 500g? OH wait no you can just wait huge sums on an exotic version because of the minstrel insignia's and crafting costs. Assuming you can craft it of course ;) > > > > > > Both high end (reducing amount of stats) and low end (allowing all players to have similar stat values and spreads rather than requiring dedicated WvW builds; WvW overall improves by allowing players to jump in and play PROPERLY. Rather than jumping into PVE to grind for months only to unlock access to play proper - something GW2 was never about. > > > > > > The common sense you refer to is too much common and too little sense. You should actually think about things. > > > > > > WvW main with 3x legendary armor sets. WvW shouldn't be gear reliant and the fact that half the "good" WvW builds are NOT available in exotic / cheap gear makes the problem far worse. > > > > > > There are three arguments against : > > > -Not worth the effort - not like WvW is getting updates and i'd rather get different ones > > > -"QQ but my armor i worked for" - you can use it in PvE like anyone else and you can now run ANY build you like. The only thing you lose is being on even footing as everyone else... Oh wait, I can see why that scares many even "experienced" players ;) > > > -Sense of progression by ^above players who spent all this time making their character stronger but miserably failed at getting better. If you're a vet in the game, you should be able to outplay new players off knowledge and skill perfectly fine. If you're not capable of that; you very well deserve to lose. > > > > > > WvW being linked to PvE gear doesn't benefit it. > > > > Sorry but you don’t have to use any gold to get any stats for WvW since every stat is handed out in Reward tracks at exotic rarity and for Ascended gear with any stats don’t cost that much from WvW, just playing the gamemode gets everything for cheap, but hey I know facts are hard.... Players don’t have to grind PvE to get any gear, all gear and all stats are easily accessible solely form WvW for cheap... it’s like *certain people* don’t even play the game or know what they are talking about.. > > > > PvP doesn’t have stat disparities while the suggestion that I was referring to still has disparities, and based on the suggestion the percentage of the disparity is over triple the current disparity between exotic vs Ascended, again it’s simple common sense that the second suggestion solves absolutely nothing and only adds unnecessary work on the Devs, to make it so *certain people* can be lazy and not put in the effort/time that others have, but I get it *certain people* don’t care that other’s effort and time gets completely invalidated as long as those *certain people* get what they want for zero effort. > > > > Again WvW was never designed to be structured, that’s why it’s not sWvW, if players want to have an even playing field stat wise Anet provides that Gamemode it’s called sPvP. > > Yeah "only" takes them hmh. 5+ reward tracks per trinket (ascended). > 6 reward tracks armor. > 2-4 reward tracks weapons. > > = 30+ reward tracks for one geared character * 8 hours = more than 250 hours to gear a character. I wonder why playres end up doing PvE for it. :trollface: > > I'm sorry that I actually play the game at a reasonable level, where I rather do... I don't know, 15 hours of raidclears per month giving me a full free ascended set rather than playing 6 months of 60+ hours per month of WvW for that same stuff. OH WAIT. It's almost like math basics are hard. > > Why exactly should a new player have to grind for months to be on the same level as us? You've had far more time to practise, isn't that enough? > > Again; your "effort" is a joke. I'm literally sitting on 3 full legendary armors and enough ascended weapons to be able to run any build you could imagine on a whim. "Endgame" bois. Because I'm capable of ... doing 3 hours of PvE per week along my 15+ hours of WVW. Because simple math tells me that using WvW tickets on something as trivial as ascended armor is an absolute waste of time and effort compared to other methods of acquisition. > > Bad players thinking their "effort" in grinding gear and failing to improve for years should give them an advantage over new players and rationalizing it with things like "it's not designed to be fair, it's designed to allow me advantages!" > > Well then; I'll continue to kick any random that isn't capable of adapting their build on a whim like I am. Because frankly; I don't care. Roamers seem to do tho :trollface: Sorry but Using WvW tickets on gear is actually quite simply the best use of them... smh, since you know the trinkets are essentially budget legendaries due to the ability to stat swap them and the Ascended armor is able to be upgraded to Legendary and provide more value long term. Fun times when someone gets called out on them claiming WvW doesn’t provide certain gear, and change to it not being worth it to work towards that gear gotta back pedal and move those goalposts lmao.maybe *certain people* should learn about the gamemodes before making claims on them it add credibility to arguments. Simple common sense. Also there are things called boosters that greatly decreases the acquisition time of all Reward tracks to get any gear set and work towards the Ascended variants. Again WvW isn’t meant to provide the structured stat to everyone when they first jump in, there is a Gamemode specifically for people that want structured stats and low effort PvP it’s called sPvP. Cool story you have 3 sets of Legendaries which has zero bearing on this situation in the slightest, since you don’t solely do WvW and that gear serves different purpose than just exclusively WvW, which a plethora of people only do WvW and not PvE and these changes would completely invalidate their time and effort on acquiring their Ascended/Legendary gear. Aha cute trying to claim others as bad, must have a very weak argument to resort to name calling. Smh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Etheri.5406 Posted August 7, 2018 Share Posted August 7, 2018 > @"BlaqueFyre.5678" said: > > @"Etheri.5406" said: > > > @"BlaqueFyre.5678" said: > > > > @"Etheri.5406" said: > > > > > @"BlaqueFyre.5678" said: > > > > > > @"rng.1024" said: > > > > > > > @"BlaqueFyre.5678" said: > > > > > > > > @"rng.1024" said: > > > > > > > > > @"BlaqueFyre.5678" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"rng.1024" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"BlaqueFyre.5678" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"rng.1024" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"RedShark.9548" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"rng.1024" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"RedShark.9548" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"rng.1024" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"RedShark.9548" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"rng.1024" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"RedShark.9548" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"GwAddict.9746" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"rng.1024" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Actually capping gear contributed stats isn't the worst idea. Hear me out: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > **3 stat gear** > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - Major stat caps at 1200 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - Minor stat caps at 900 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > **4 stat gear** > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - Major stat caps at 1050 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - Minor stat caps at 560 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > **7 stat gear (celestial)** > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - Just give it some love in this meta already, cap it at ascended values > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Now this should apply to every individual armor piece you are wearing. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ## Benefits: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - You can still mix and match gear unlike PvP > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - You keep every rune/sigil combo unlike PvP > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - Food, utilities, infusions, skills and traits allow you to exceed the gear cap (gives ascended gear and WvW infusions still an edge) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - PvE power remains untouched as you keep ascended values there > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - Allows the dev team to revert some skillsplits for consistency across gamemodes and do across the board changes in the future > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - We have upscale so the tech is already there > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is essentially the second option in the original post. Gears you equip will still have value but their power will be decreased to exotic level, so ascended won't have that advantage along with infusions. Also this won't devalue the legendary armor because you can still swap stats/runes at will. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Not my preferred choice but it's still way better than what we have currently. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > yes this would still greatly devalue my legy stuff because i could just get everything i wanna try out in exotics basically for free, because exotics are so easy to get its thrown at you > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > id want all my money refunded that i had to pump into my legy armor, which was like 1,5k gold, you know how many exotic sets i could get with that? more than all my inventorys could hold and more builds there will probably ever be > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What are you talking about? You would get the exotics at the same rate you do today, and the leggy armor would require exactly the same. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > exactly, id get the exotic basically for free (exotics are sooo easy to get) and rendering legendary stuff completely useless since they have the same stat value as those exotics i get thrown at me. why would i buy myself legendary gear? pls tell me, it would have no value at all since i could just get the exotics much cheaper > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > not sure what about that you dont understand, right now ascended is slightly better than exotic, making it very costly to try out new builds in full ascended, hence why its valuable to get legendary gear, because you can change stats and runes and thus try out builds at their full potential > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > if legendary and ascended had the same stats as exotics there wouldnt be any need to craft ascended gear. and since i can get exotics that easy i can just get a new set instead of an expensive legendary where i can change stats > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Let me explain: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1. Ascended armor would still allow you to infuse them (and the weapon would increase your damage range), for a 90 point attribute bonus. This you wouldn't be able to get in exotic gear. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2. Legendary gear would still have the added benefit of being able to change stats when out of combat. This would also not be possible with regular ascended or exotics. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So you are arguing the point that the only reason you had for crafting legendary gear, over exotics even, was to get that 5% increase in attributes? If we lowered all attribute values as per my suggestion (today ascended gear yield 1381 maximum to a top stat, meaning todays infusions benefit you (90/1381) 6,5%. With the lower maximum they would yield (90/1200) 7,5% benefit. Meaning you would lose the last 4 percent, but the entire idea was based around normalizing stats, already it is implicit the extremes are the ones that will have to make sacrifices. This way you would actually be rewarded more for putting in the effort of crafting ascended stuff. And if those 5% were your only reason why didn't you just craft regular ascended instead? Could have saved you alot of money. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And the reason I didn't get your argument is that you already can get exotics cheap and use them to try out your builds. It's still costly to try them in ascended. And it's still valuable to get legendary gear for that reason. My suggestion merely means an overall lowering of gears "full potential" across the board, and indirectly increase the discrepancy between those who use exotics and ascended/legendary in favor of those who put the time and effort into crafting them - nothing more. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > you still didnt get what i said. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > i said "try out builds at their FULL potential" thats the only reason legendary has any value. if i wanted to test them with exotic stats then id get them in exo. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > i already said that exotics are cheap af. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and yes, i get ascended stuff to have more impact than some half kitten exotic builds, if it didnt have the stat advantage id have no reason to get them, mist ppl dont even have infusions in their armor btw, they only are a small amount of points > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > i determine more time and money into wvw than other ppl that only run that cheap exo stuff, ofc i want to have a benefit from that > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > pve ppl have to run ascended gear to get better results and solve the harder content, why should that be different in wvw??? in wvw those statpoints mostly make a difference in smallscale roaming, for zergs it makes almost no difference > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > this whole ez to get stuff is just for lazy ppl > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ive played wvw for pretty much 5 years exlusively and dedicated my whole gear to that. if you normalize stats etc all my work would be for naught because all that could easily be reached by cheap kitten exotic gear that is farmed in like 5minutes in pve > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I still don't get your issue - you just said that those statpoints makes almost no difference. Then why are you fighting so hard to keep them? And I will try again: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The extra stats you currently get from ascended/legendary gear would be transferred into the infusions instead - the full potential would still be the same. The benefit from having ascended gear would still be the same. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And your argument for farming exotic gear: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - You would have lower dmg range (as is the case today > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - You would lose out on the 7,5% increased stats (today you lose out on 6,5% actually) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - You still wouldn't be able to statswap since it's not legendary. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It would help alot if you could describe exactly what it is that would make your effort of getting ascended gear void with this change, because frankly I see only more reason to go for it as this would be a slight nerf to lvl 80 exotics as they exist today, and you would gain more stat difference by using your infusions than you currently do - hence a reason to get ascended. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > because the stats make no difference in zerging, but i also roam, and i want those stat advantages in roaming when i put more effort into it > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > do you mean that ascended gear gets lowered to exotic and exotics get lowered aswell? i understood it that way that ascended have the same stats as exotics, hence there wouldnt be any reason to get ascended, except infusion slots > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yeah you pretty much nailed it there - that is what I meant, that ascended become the new exotics and current exotics get lowered an equal amount, leaving infusions as the main contributor to the difference between the exotic and ascended instead of the inherent stats we have today. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Even better if we upped the infusions from 5 to 10 so that we would get 180 extra points for a full set - this would be a whooping 17% difference instead of the 5% bonus ascended give us now - but it would all be done with infusions, which would only be obtainable by getting ascended gear. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Or just leave it as is, since gear isn’t hard to acquire by any means, it is handed out just by playing the gamemode.... since your idea would still have a stat discrepancy... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The effort in question was to normalize gear in WvW. This would achieve exactly that, without ignoring the time and effort spent by players in order to obtain ascended gear. > > > > > > > > > > Normalize = Lower the difference between bottom and top tier stat allocation, here with exotics being the bottom and ascended the top. With the added benefit of lowering both extremes, meaning every attribute point would matter more than they currently do, encouraging build variety. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It doesn’t normalize them in anyway since you even stated fully infused out would have a higher percentage of stats over the current iteration...... making it less normalized... just because you lower both stats on Ascended and exotic mean nothing to normalize them, especially if you put in a way to make a larger stat disparity, it’s more cost effective for Anet to leave it as is vs your suggestion. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > in case you didn't notice I left out the infusion contribution of todays ascended gear. So you will lose those 5%, but gain 1% back through infusions, but the major benefit would still be the increase in weapon strength going from exotic to ascended. By lowering stats and controlling exactly how much you can go over the cap through infusions, food, utilities and traits would indeed normalize the mode, meaning every attribute point would count for more. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Why should ascended armor have the same value as exotics? It makes no sense to me to ignore this. So of course there should still be a stat disparity, it is only fair. But it's all about not making it too big, which is seen today evident in the builds that benefit heavily on 1 stat investments. You have to realise only the extremes will be affected by this change, which was the goal all along - to bring them closer to eachother while maintaining their respective top/bottom positions. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As for cost effective: > > > > > > > > Should anet spend workhours on a multitude of balance patches trying to reign in overperforming builds as they present themselves, what runes/sigils to disable, food/utility to nerf and what professions to rework? > > > > > > > > Or > > > > > > > > Should they use the already in place upscale mechanic once in order to minimize potential outliers and give them full control over the raw numbers available to players? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Because only one of those options would upset part of their customer base. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Again your suggestion isn’t normalizing anything, all it is doing is changing the values and leaving a disparity, and would be extremely cost ineffective for Anet since it doesn’t change anything... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your proposed stat disparity isn’t big? Your stat disparity in your own words would be much larger percentage wise than it currently is over exotics.... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That was if they doubled the infusion values. With the current values you would lose the 5% extra stats, keep the increased damage range and infusions would count for 1% more of your total attribute pool. It's a nerf - but since the proposed gear normalization was set to slightly lower than lvl 80 gear, this means the exotics would be slightly nerfed too and we somewhat keep the same disparity as would be without infusions - but these would now be 100% tied to infusions and ascended weapons, so there's more progression to it than just getting an ascended piece. > > > > > > > > > > > > The change is intended to give clear cut min/max values, and indirectly cap the efficiency of compounding traits without taking away the core philosophy of the gamemode. The only reason the disparity remains is out of respect to those who feel they've invested too much in it already - if you don't listen to them how do you expect them to listen to you? > > > > > > > > > > There are already clear cut min max values, since all values are known and lowering the value doesn’t change that in the slightest..... that is pure common sense. Since you aren’t removing any stat disparity then there is zero reason to do this it would be wasted effort.... > > > > > > > > Current min max values are far higher than those for the PvP system; which is in part problematic. Furthermore, you do remove stat disparity as anyone actually has access to any build. Half the stats used in WvW are far from trivial to get. As far as I'm aware a basic WvW firebrand build is what; 500g? OH wait no you can just wait huge sums on an exotic version because of the minstrel insignia's and crafting costs. Assuming you can craft it of course ;) > > > > > > > > Both high end (reducing amount of stats) and low end (allowing all players to have similar stat values and spreads rather than requiring dedicated WvW builds; WvW overall improves by allowing players to jump in and play PROPERLY. Rather than jumping into PVE to grind for months only to unlock access to play proper - something GW2 was never about. > > > > > > > > The common sense you refer to is too much common and too little sense. You should actually think about things. > > > > > > > > WvW main with 3x legendary armor sets. WvW shouldn't be gear reliant and the fact that half the "good" WvW builds are NOT available in exotic / cheap gear makes the problem far worse. > > > > > > > > There are three arguments against : > > > > -Not worth the effort - not like WvW is getting updates and i'd rather get different ones > > > > -"QQ but my armor i worked for" - you can use it in PvE like anyone else and you can now run ANY build you like. The only thing you lose is being on even footing as everyone else... Oh wait, I can see why that scares many even "experienced" players ;) > > > > -Sense of progression by ^above players who spent all this time making their character stronger but miserably failed at getting better. If you're a vet in the game, you should be able to outplay new players off knowledge and skill perfectly fine. If you're not capable of that; you very well deserve to lose. > > > > > > > > WvW being linked to PvE gear doesn't benefit it. > > > > > > Sorry but you don’t have to use any gold to get any stats for WvW since every stat is handed out in Reward tracks at exotic rarity and for Ascended gear with any stats don’t cost that much from WvW, just playing the gamemode gets everything for cheap, but hey I know facts are hard.... Players don’t have to grind PvE to get any gear, all gear and all stats are easily accessible solely form WvW for cheap... it’s like *certain people* don’t even play the game or know what they are talking about.. > > > > > > PvP doesn’t have stat disparities while the suggestion that I was referring to still has disparities, and based on the suggestion the percentage of the disparity is over triple the current disparity between exotic vs Ascended, again it’s simple common sense that the second suggestion solves absolutely nothing and only adds unnecessary work on the Devs, to make it so *certain people* can be lazy and not put in the effort/time that others have, but I get it *certain people* don’t care that other’s effort and time gets completely invalidated as long as those *certain people* get what they want for zero effort. > > > > > > Again WvW was never designed to be structured, that’s why it’s not sWvW, if players want to have an even playing field stat wise Anet provides that Gamemode it’s called sPvP. > > > > Yeah "only" takes them hmh. 5+ reward tracks per trinket (ascended). > > 6 reward tracks armor. > > 2-4 reward tracks weapons. > > > > = 30+ reward tracks for one geared character * 8 hours = more than 250 hours to gear a character. I wonder why playres end up doing PvE for it. :trollface: > > > > I'm sorry that I actually play the game at a reasonable level, where I rather do... I don't know, 15 hours of raidclears per month giving me a full free ascended set rather than playing 6 months of 60+ hours per month of WvW for that same stuff. OH WAIT. It's almost like math basics are hard. > > > > Why exactly should a new player have to grind for months to be on the same level as us? You've had far more time to practise, isn't that enough? > > > > Again; your "effort" is a joke. I'm literally sitting on 3 full legendary armors and enough ascended weapons to be able to run any build you could imagine on a whim. "Endgame" bois. Because I'm capable of ... doing 3 hours of PvE per week along my 15+ hours of WVW. Because simple math tells me that using WvW tickets on something as trivial as ascended armor is an absolute waste of time and effort compared to other methods of acquisition. > > > > Bad players thinking their "effort" in grinding gear and failing to improve for years should give them an advantage over new players and rationalizing it with things like "it's not designed to be fair, it's designed to allow me advantages!" > > > > Well then; I'll continue to kick any random that isn't capable of adapting their build on a whim like I am. Because frankly; I don't care. Roamers seem to do tho :trollface: > > Sorry but Using WvW tickets on gear is actually quite simply the best use of them... smh, since you know the trinkets are essentially budget legendaries due to the ability to stat swap them and the Ascended armor is able to be upgraded to Legendary and provide more value long term. > > Simple common sense. > > Also there are things called boosters that greatly decreases the acquisition time of all Reward tracks to get any gear set and work towards the Ascended variants. > > Again WvW isn’t meant to provide the structured stat to everyone when they first jump in, there is a Gamemode specifically for people that want structured stats and low effort PvP it’s called sPvP. > > Cool story you have 3 sets of Legendaries which has zero bearing on this situation in the slightest, since you don’t solely do WvW and that gear serves different purpose than just exclusively WvW, which a plethora of people only do WvW and not PvE and these changes would completely invalidate their time and effort on acquiring their Ascended/Legendary gear. > > Aha cute trying to claim others as bad, must have a very weak argument to resort to name calling. Smh. Your WvW gear (ascended) is gated along with your legendary, the armor, T3 skins and weapon skins. The T2 skins are almost as expensive as crafting and frankly just a waste of money unless you get T3 after (which requires 1.5k+) rank or legendary (which requires a whole lot of pips). WvW and PvP are vastly DIFFERENT and WvW would benefit from SPvP's structured mode. Simple common sense yet all I'm hearing is "I did this work and now others must too, or be weaker than me". I'm clearly stating I did the work to get all the armor and frankly; it's irrelevant. I'd rather have more high quality enemies and allies to play with and against than pretend there is ANY value in gear progression other than keeping players busy doing grinding rather than doing the things they enjoy. "low effort pvp"... yeah. As I stated, "they didn't do as much work as me so they can't be as strong as me" is just a bad excuse for "I've got more experience but i'm still worse". If you've never done PvE to supply gear for WvW, are you even a real WvWer or some kind of new player stuck on WvW only. I remember farming several sets of dura runes in PVE only. I remember ascended gear being PvE / craft only. Did adding gear to WvW "invalidate" the efforts of those players for WvW? Nope. Just a bunch of greedy players insisting they are stronger or their "efforts" continue to be demanded of other players regardless of merit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strider Pj.2193 Posted August 7, 2018 Share Posted August 7, 2018 And the reward tracks only take 2-3 completions to get individual trinkets, while still accumulating tickets towards skirmish reward trinkets.. so.,, after 5-6 reward tracks, you could have two trinkets and maybe an amulet. That's what... I think no more than 30 hours of gameplay? That's 2 weeks for me just playing weekends and nights. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlaqueFyre.5678 Posted August 7, 2018 Share Posted August 7, 2018 > @"Etheri.5406" said: > > @"BlaqueFyre.5678" said: > > > @"Etheri.5406" said: > > > > @"BlaqueFyre.5678" said: > > > > > @"Etheri.5406" said: > > > > > > @"BlaqueFyre.5678" said: > > > > > > > @"rng.1024" said: > > > > > > > > @"BlaqueFyre.5678" said: > > > > > > > > > @"rng.1024" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"BlaqueFyre.5678" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"rng.1024" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"BlaqueFyre.5678" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"rng.1024" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"RedShark.9548" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"rng.1024" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"RedShark.9548" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"rng.1024" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"RedShark.9548" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"rng.1024" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"RedShark.9548" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"GwAddict.9746" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"rng.1024" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Actually capping gear contributed stats isn't the worst idea. Hear me out: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > **3 stat gear** > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - Major stat caps at 1200 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - Minor stat caps at 900 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > **4 stat gear** > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - Major stat caps at 1050 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - Minor stat caps at 560 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > **7 stat gear (celestial)** > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - Just give it some love in this meta already, cap it at ascended values > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Now this should apply to every individual armor piece you are wearing. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ## Benefits: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - You can still mix and match gear unlike PvP > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - You keep every rune/sigil combo unlike PvP > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - Food, utilities, infusions, skills and traits allow you to exceed the gear cap (gives ascended gear and WvW infusions still an edge) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - PvE power remains untouched as you keep ascended values there > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - Allows the dev team to revert some skillsplits for consistency across gamemodes and do across the board changes in the future > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - We have upscale so the tech is already there > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is essentially the second option in the original post. Gears you equip will still have value but their power will be decreased to exotic level, so ascended won't have that advantage along with infusions. Also this won't devalue the legendary armor because you can still swap stats/runes at will. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Not my preferred choice but it's still way better than what we have currently. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > yes this would still greatly devalue my legy stuff because i could just get everything i wanna try out in exotics basically for free, because exotics are so easy to get its thrown at you > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > id want all my money refunded that i had to pump into my legy armor, which was like 1,5k gold, you know how many exotic sets i could get with that? more than all my inventorys could hold and more builds there will probably ever be > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What are you talking about? You would get the exotics at the same rate you do today, and the leggy armor would require exactly the same. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > exactly, id get the exotic basically for free (exotics are sooo easy to get) and rendering legendary stuff completely useless since they have the same stat value as those exotics i get thrown at me. why would i buy myself legendary gear? pls tell me, it would have no value at all since i could just get the exotics much cheaper > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > not sure what about that you dont understand, right now ascended is slightly better than exotic, making it very costly to try out new builds in full ascended, hence why its valuable to get legendary gear, because you can change stats and runes and thus try out builds at their full potential > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > if legendary and ascended had the same stats as exotics there wouldnt be any need to craft ascended gear. and since i can get exotics that easy i can just get a new set instead of an expensive legendary where i can change stats > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Let me explain: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1. Ascended armor would still allow you to infuse them (and the weapon would increase your damage range), for a 90 point attribute bonus. This you wouldn't be able to get in exotic gear. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2. Legendary gear would still have the added benefit of being able to change stats when out of combat. This would also not be possible with regular ascended or exotics. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So you are arguing the point that the only reason you had for crafting legendary gear, over exotics even, was to get that 5% increase in attributes? If we lowered all attribute values as per my suggestion (today ascended gear yield 1381 maximum to a top stat, meaning todays infusions benefit you (90/1381) 6,5%. With the lower maximum they would yield (90/1200) 7,5% benefit. Meaning you would lose the last 4 percent, but the entire idea was based around normalizing stats, already it is implicit the extremes are the ones that will have to make sacrifices. This way you would actually be rewarded more for putting in the effort of crafting ascended stuff. And if those 5% were your only reason why didn't you just craft regular ascended instead? Could have saved you alot of money. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And the reason I didn't get your argument is that you already can get exotics cheap and use them to try out your builds. It's still costly to try them in ascended. And it's still valuable to get legendary gear for that reason. My suggestion merely means an overall lowering of gears "full potential" across the board, and indirectly increase the discrepancy between those who use exotics and ascended/legendary in favor of those who put the time and effort into crafting them - nothing more. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > you still didnt get what i said. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > i said "try out builds at their FULL potential" thats the only reason legendary has any value. if i wanted to test them with exotic stats then id get them in exo. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > i already said that exotics are cheap af. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and yes, i get ascended stuff to have more impact than some half kitten exotic builds, if it didnt have the stat advantage id have no reason to get them, mist ppl dont even have infusions in their armor btw, they only are a small amount of points > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > i determine more time and money into wvw than other ppl that only run that cheap exo stuff, ofc i want to have a benefit from that > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > pve ppl have to run ascended gear to get better results and solve the harder content, why should that be different in wvw??? in wvw those statpoints mostly make a difference in smallscale roaming, for zergs it makes almost no difference > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > this whole ez to get stuff is just for lazy ppl > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ive played wvw for pretty much 5 years exlusively and dedicated my whole gear to that. if you normalize stats etc all my work would be for naught because all that could easily be reached by cheap kitten exotic gear that is farmed in like 5minutes in pve > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I still don't get your issue - you just said that those statpoints makes almost no difference. Then why are you fighting so hard to keep them? And I will try again: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The extra stats you currently get from ascended/legendary gear would be transferred into the infusions instead - the full potential would still be the same. The benefit from having ascended gear would still be the same. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And your argument for farming exotic gear: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - You would have lower dmg range (as is the case today > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - You would lose out on the 7,5% increased stats (today you lose out on 6,5% actually) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - You still wouldn't be able to statswap since it's not legendary. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It would help alot if you could describe exactly what it is that would make your effort of getting ascended gear void with this change, because frankly I see only more reason to go for it as this would be a slight nerf to lvl 80 exotics as they exist today, and you would gain more stat difference by using your infusions than you currently do - hence a reason to get ascended. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > because the stats make no difference in zerging, but i also roam, and i want those stat advantages in roaming when i put more effort into it > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > do you mean that ascended gear gets lowered to exotic and exotics get lowered aswell? i understood it that way that ascended have the same stats as exotics, hence there wouldnt be any reason to get ascended, except infusion slots > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yeah you pretty much nailed it there - that is what I meant, that ascended become the new exotics and current exotics get lowered an equal amount, leaving infusions as the main contributor to the difference between the exotic and ascended instead of the inherent stats we have today. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Even better if we upped the infusions from 5 to 10 so that we would get 180 extra points for a full set - this would be a whooping 17% difference instead of the 5% bonus ascended give us now - but it would all be done with infusions, which would only be obtainable by getting ascended gear. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Or just leave it as is, since gear isn’t hard to acquire by any means, it is handed out just by playing the gamemode.... since your idea would still have a stat discrepancy... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The effort in question was to normalize gear in WvW. This would achieve exactly that, without ignoring the time and effort spent by players in order to obtain ascended gear. > > > > > > > > > > > Normalize = Lower the difference between bottom and top tier stat allocation, here with exotics being the bottom and ascended the top. With the added benefit of lowering both extremes, meaning every attribute point would matter more than they currently do, encouraging build variety. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It doesn’t normalize them in anyway since you even stated fully infused out would have a higher percentage of stats over the current iteration...... making it less normalized... just because you lower both stats on Ascended and exotic mean nothing to normalize them, especially if you put in a way to make a larger stat disparity, it’s more cost effective for Anet to leave it as is vs your suggestion. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > in case you didn't notice I left out the infusion contribution of todays ascended gear. So you will lose those 5%, but gain 1% back through infusions, but the major benefit would still be the increase in weapon strength going from exotic to ascended. By lowering stats and controlling exactly how much you can go over the cap through infusions, food, utilities and traits would indeed normalize the mode, meaning every attribute point would count for more. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Why should ascended armor have the same value as exotics? It makes no sense to me to ignore this. So of course there should still be a stat disparity, it is only fair. But it's all about not making it too big, which is seen today evident in the builds that benefit heavily on 1 stat investments. You have to realise only the extremes will be affected by this change, which was the goal all along - to bring them closer to eachother while maintaining their respective top/bottom positions. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As for cost effective: > > > > > > > > > Should anet spend workhours on a multitude of balance patches trying to reign in overperforming builds as they present themselves, what runes/sigils to disable, food/utility to nerf and what professions to rework? > > > > > > > > > Or > > > > > > > > > Should they use the already in place upscale mechanic once in order to minimize potential outliers and give them full control over the raw numbers available to players? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Because only one of those options would upset part of their customer base. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Again your suggestion isn’t normalizing anything, all it is doing is changing the values and leaving a disparity, and would be extremely cost ineffective for Anet since it doesn’t change anything... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your proposed stat disparity isn’t big? Your stat disparity in your own words would be much larger percentage wise than it currently is over exotics.... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That was if they doubled the infusion values. With the current values you would lose the 5% extra stats, keep the increased damage range and infusions would count for 1% more of your total attribute pool. It's a nerf - but since the proposed gear normalization was set to slightly lower than lvl 80 gear, this means the exotics would be slightly nerfed too and we somewhat keep the same disparity as would be without infusions - but these would now be 100% tied to infusions and ascended weapons, so there's more progression to it than just getting an ascended piece. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The change is intended to give clear cut min/max values, and indirectly cap the efficiency of compounding traits without taking away the core philosophy of the gamemode. The only reason the disparity remains is out of respect to those who feel they've invested too much in it already - if you don't listen to them how do you expect them to listen to you? > > > > > > > > > > > > There are already clear cut min max values, since all values are known and lowering the value doesn’t change that in the slightest..... that is pure common sense. Since you aren’t removing any stat disparity then there is zero reason to do this it would be wasted effort.... > > > > > > > > > > Current min max values are far higher than those for the PvP system; which is in part problematic. Furthermore, you do remove stat disparity as anyone actually has access to any build. Half the stats used in WvW are far from trivial to get. As far as I'm aware a basic WvW firebrand build is what; 500g? OH wait no you can just wait huge sums on an exotic version because of the minstrel insignia's and crafting costs. Assuming you can craft it of course ;) > > > > > > > > > > Both high end (reducing amount of stats) and low end (allowing all players to have similar stat values and spreads rather than requiring dedicated WvW builds; WvW overall improves by allowing players to jump in and play PROPERLY. Rather than jumping into PVE to grind for months only to unlock access to play proper - something GW2 was never about. > > > > > > > > > > The common sense you refer to is too much common and too little sense. You should actually think about things. > > > > > > > > > > WvW main with 3x legendary armor sets. WvW shouldn't be gear reliant and the fact that half the "good" WvW builds are NOT available in exotic / cheap gear makes the problem far worse. > > > > > > > > > > There are three arguments against : > > > > > -Not worth the effort - not like WvW is getting updates and i'd rather get different ones > > > > > -"QQ but my armor i worked for" - you can use it in PvE like anyone else and you can now run ANY build you like. The only thing you lose is being on even footing as everyone else... Oh wait, I can see why that scares many even "experienced" players ;) > > > > > -Sense of progression by ^above players who spent all this time making their character stronger but miserably failed at getting better. If you're a vet in the game, you should be able to outplay new players off knowledge and skill perfectly fine. If you're not capable of that; you very well deserve to lose. > > > > > > > > > > WvW being linked to PvE gear doesn't benefit it. > > > > > > > > Sorry but you don’t have to use any gold to get any stats for WvW since every stat is handed out in Reward tracks at exotic rarity and for Ascended gear with any stats don’t cost that much from WvW, just playing the gamemode gets everything for cheap, but hey I know facts are hard.... Players don’t have to grind PvE to get any gear, all gear and all stats are easily accessible solely form WvW for cheap... it’s like *certain people* don’t even play the game or know what they are talking about.. > > > > > > > > PvP doesn’t have stat disparities while the suggestion that I was referring to still has disparities, and based on the suggestion the percentage of the disparity is over triple the current disparity between exotic vs Ascended, again it’s simple common sense that the second suggestion solves absolutely nothing and only adds unnecessary work on the Devs, to make it so *certain people* can be lazy and not put in the effort/time that others have, but I get it *certain people* don’t care that other’s effort and time gets completely invalidated as long as those *certain people* get what they want for zero effort. > > > > > > > > Again WvW was never designed to be structured, that’s why it’s not sWvW, if players want to have an even playing field stat wise Anet provides that Gamemode it’s called sPvP. > > > > > > Yeah "only" takes them hmh. 5+ reward tracks per trinket (ascended). > > > 6 reward tracks armor. > > > 2-4 reward tracks weapons. > > > > > > = 30+ reward tracks for one geared character * 8 hours = more than 250 hours to gear a character. I wonder why playres end up doing PvE for it. :trollface: > > > > > > I'm sorry that I actually play the game at a reasonable level, where I rather do... I don't know, 15 hours of raidclears per month giving me a full free ascended set rather than playing 6 months of 60+ hours per month of WvW for that same stuff. OH WAIT. It's almost like math basics are hard. > > > > > > Why exactly should a new player have to grind for months to be on the same level as us? You've had far more time to practise, isn't that enough? > > > > > > Again; your "effort" is a joke. I'm literally sitting on 3 full legendary armors and enough ascended weapons to be able to run any build you could imagine on a whim. "Endgame" bois. Because I'm capable of ... doing 3 hours of PvE per week along my 15+ hours of WVW. Because simple math tells me that using WvW tickets on something as trivial as ascended armor is an absolute waste of time and effort compared to other methods of acquisition. > > > > > > Bad players thinking their "effort" in grinding gear and failing to improve for years should give them an advantage over new players and rationalizing it with things like "it's not designed to be fair, it's designed to allow me advantages!" > > > > > > Well then; I'll continue to kick any random that isn't capable of adapting their build on a whim like I am. Because frankly; I don't care. Roamers seem to do tho :trollface: > > > > Sorry but Using WvW tickets on gear is actually quite simply the best use of them... smh, since you know the trinkets are essentially budget legendaries due to the ability to stat swap them and the Ascended armor is able to be upgraded to Legendary and provide more value long term. > > > > Simple common sense. > > > > Also there are things called boosters that greatly decreases the acquisition time of all Reward tracks to get any gear set and work towards the Ascended variants. > > > > Again WvW isn’t meant to provide the structured stat to everyone when they first jump in, there is a Gamemode specifically for people that want structured stats and low effort PvP it’s called sPvP. > > > > Cool story you have 3 sets of Legendaries which has zero bearing on this situation in the slightest, since you don’t solely do WvW and that gear serves different purpose than just exclusively WvW, which a plethora of people only do WvW and not PvE and these changes would completely invalidate their time and effort on acquiring their Ascended/Legendary gear. > > > > Aha cute trying to claim others as bad, must have a very weak argument to resort to name calling. Smh. > > Your WvW gear (ascended) is gated along with your legendary, the armor, T3 skins and weapon skins. The T2 skins are almost as expensive as crafting and frankly just a waste of money unless you get T3 after (which requires 1.5k+) rank or legendary (which requires a whole lot of pips). > > WvW and PvP are vastly DIFFERENT and WvW would benefit from SPvP's structured mode. Simple common sense yet all I'm hearing is "I did this work and now others must too, or be weaker than me". I'm clearly stating I did the work to get all the armor and frankly; it's irrelevant. I'd rather have more high quality enemies and allies to play with and against than pretend there is ANY value in gear progression other than keeping players busy doing grinding rather than doing the things they enjoy. > > "low effort pvp"... yeah. As I stated, "they didn't do as much work as me so they can't be as strong as me" is just a bad excuse for "I've got more experience but i'm still worse". > > If you've never done PvE to supply gear for WvW, are you even a real WvWer or some kind of new player stuck on WvW only. I remember farming several sets of dura runes in PVE only. I remember ascended gear being PvE / craft only. Did adding gear to WvW "invalidate" the efforts of those players for WvW? Nope. > > Just a bunch of greedy players insisting they are stronger or their "efforts" continue to be demanded of other players regardless of merit. Lulz exactly WvW and PvP are vastly different and intended to be ever since Launch and why they have different gear structures remember WvW is WvW not sWvW....... if they want completely equal stats without effort sPvP is the gamemode made for those players that is pure and simple common sense, something *certain people* are lacking. Adding an sPvP style structured “gear” would only benefit those that want to put in zero effort into the game, and nothing else, because sPvP is so “balanced”. There are zero complaints about sPvP because it’s the epitome of “balance”, and it’s a gamemode brimming with players due to its structured stats and easily accessible nature right? Smh. You are stating you did work for gear that serves you for multiple different game modes which means nothing in regards to this entire conversation, because even with this suggestion your time/effort for the gear isn’t invalidated, but a plethora of players made their gear for one purpose only, WvW and their entire time/effort would invalidated because people want to be lazy and not put in the effort that others have. I have played this game since launch and never have I worked on gear from PvE for the use in WvW because the gear from WvW was more than adequate even after Ascended was released the easy to acquire exotics are still more than adequate to be competitive in WvW in Roaming or Zerging, and I didn’t put all that much gold into my Legendary Armor in the slightest and I don’t even grind PvE for gold, it’s gotten just from rewards tracks/pip rewards. Players that actually worked for something don’t like their time/effort completely invalidated since it means something to them, which would be what happens with these suggestion that would have no actual benefit and would disenfranchise a plethora of actual players which is a more real outcome over the hypothetical and potential that would supposedly join WvW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueMelody.6398 Posted August 8, 2018 Share Posted August 8, 2018 > @"Whiteout.1975" said: > If some people want to feel like their work towards legendary's is still being accounted for (which is fair). I would just really suggest searching for other ways to compensate them, with them, for them. To hopefully lay that part of the argument to rest. Though, you might just get the response of someone that just want's to make your life harder. It might even sound something like this "I worked on legendary's for 1 reason ONLY and that was to switch stats". In which case, they just proved themselves to be close minded to other possibilities and not actually open for discussion... though instead are more interested in an argument. Eh, but you probably already know this. Just though I'd give fair warning. Good luck. As someone who did indeed focus on legendaries *primarily* for the stat-switching, I really resent this. Don't tell me I'm being closed-minded when that is in fact the major reason I put in tons of hours and work to get legendaries, and which would be completely nullified by this system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whiteout.1975 Posted August 8, 2018 Share Posted August 8, 2018 > @"BlueMelody.6398" said: > > @"Whiteout.1975" said: > > > If some people want to feel like their work towards legendary's is still being accounted for (which is fair). I would just really suggest searching for other ways to compensate them, with them, for them. To hopefully lay that part of the argument to rest. Though, you might just get the response of someone that just want's to make your life harder. It might even sound something like this "I worked on legendary's for 1 reason ONLY and that was to switch stats". In which case, they just proved themselves to be close minded to other possibilities and not actually open for discussion... though instead are more interested in an argument. Eh, but you probably already know this. Just though I'd give fair warning. Good luck. > > > As someone who did indeed focus on legendaries *primarily* for the stat-switching, I really resent this. Don't tell me I'm being closed-minded when that is in fact the major reason I put in tons of hours and work to get legendaries, and which would be completely nullified by this system. lol... Well, Idk if you're close minded or not... and I don't care because I've excepted it as a possibility. So whether or not you are, means nothing to me. Just FYI... I'm saying it's close-minded... to be **unwilling** to explore other way's in which legendary's can still be useful to their owners. While ONLY excepting that "stat-switching", is the ONLY possibility, in which legendary, can be useful to their owners. So... basically putting something in a box and not willing to look at other possibilities that may exist. As if it's the ONLY possible/reasonable outcome in the situation. Aside from that, my issue with legendary, as it is right now, is the mentality it comes with. Which, is basically "You must get me **OR** continue to suffer (grind for better/more convenient balance) if you don't". Which, is why people mainly got them... because of that mentality it come's with. Which... would also mean, that **if** that is indeed the main reason people got them. **Then**, those very same people, obviously did not like the grind ether enough to keep putting up with it. Hence, like I said, the main reason why they got their legendary's. **If** the grind around balanced gear, was more or less considered a "breeze"... or a "walk in the park". **Then** going for legendary would have felt much more trivial and much much less of a driving force, behind why one of many, would even bother going for it. Clearly this was not the case. I remember the days when legendary's felt more like a choice. Really, Only because they thought the skin was cool. Not tied to balance among players whatsoever. Those were the days. Now that, was legendary. BTW, Nicely put @"Mithos.9023" & @"Etheri.5406" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XxsdgxX.8109 Posted August 8, 2018 Share Posted August 8, 2018 I'd legit finally uninstall the game. Combat here is the best one around but I can't stand sPvP because of its lack of build/gear customization. Same with conquest as the only gamemode. BTW sPvP still has huge balance issues, limiting stats (Removing amulets) has always been a cheap and fast way to "fix" things. The game already struggles with having any kind of progression/endgame and the advantage of Ascended over Exotics is already minimal, have you even played any other MMOs? This game already lacks incentives to do almost anything. And as someone said > @"BlueMelody.6398" said: >This isn't about balance, it's about someone not wanting to put the same level of effort into the game that the people who have come before him have. > Any proposal that has the net effect of rendering the effort of the long-time vets basically meaningless so that those new to the mode can instantly and without effort be at the same level (in this case, gearwise) is something I will oppose 100%. > This is not a "minor" issue regardless of what the OP wants to claim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voltekka.2375 Posted August 9, 2018 Share Posted August 9, 2018 > @"RedShark.9548" said: > > @"Voltekka.2375" said: > > > @"RedShark.9548" said: > > > > @"rng.1024" said: > > > > > @"RedShark.9548" said: > > > > > > @"rng.1024" said: > > > > > > > @"RedShark.9548" said: > > > > > > > > @"GwAddict.9746" said: > > > > > > > > > @"rng.1024" said: > > > > > > > > > Actually capping gear contributed stats isn't the worst idea. Hear me out: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > **3 stat gear** > > > > > > > > > - Major stat caps at 1200 > > > > > > > > > - Minor stat caps at 900 > > > > > > > > > **4 stat gear** > > > > > > > > > - Major stat caps at 1050 > > > > > > > > > - Minor stat caps at 560 > > > > > > > > > **7 stat gear (celestial)** > > > > > > > > > - Just give it some love in this meta already, cap it at ascended values > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Now this should apply to every individual armor piece you are wearing. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ## Benefits: > > > > > > > > > - You can still mix and match gear unlike PvP > > > > > > > > > - You keep every rune/sigil combo unlike PvP > > > > > > > > > - Food, utilities, infusions, skills and traits allow you to exceed the gear cap (gives ascended gear and WvW infusions still an edge) > > > > > > > > > - PvE power remains untouched as you keep ascended values there > > > > > > > > > - Allows the dev team to revert some skillsplits for consistency across gamemodes and do across the board changes in the future > > > > > > > > > - We have upscale so the tech is already there > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is essentially the second option in the original post. Gears you equip will still have value but their power will be decreased to exotic level, so ascended won't have that advantage along with infusions. Also this won't devalue the legendary armor because you can still swap stats/runes at will. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Not my preferred choice but it's still way better than what we have currently. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > yes this would still greatly devalue my legy stuff because i could just get everything i wanna try out in exotics basically for free, because exotics are so easy to get its thrown at you > > > > > > > > > > > > > > id want all my money refunded that i had to pump into my legy armor, which was like 1,5k gold, you know how many exotic sets i could get with that? more than all my inventorys could hold and more builds there will probably ever be > > > > > > > > > > > > What are you talking about? You would get the exotics at the same rate you do today, and the leggy armor would require exactly the same. > > > > > > > > > > exactly, id get the exotic basically for free (exotics are sooo easy to get) and rendering legendary stuff completely useless since they have the same stat value as those exotics i get thrown at me. why would i buy myself legendary gear? pls tell me, it would have no value at all since i could just get the exotics much cheaper > > > > > > > > > > not sure what about that you dont understand, right now ascended is slightly better than exotic, making it very costly to try out new builds in full ascended, hence why its valuable to get legendary gear, because you can change stats and runes and thus try out builds at their full potential > > > > > > > > > > if legendary and ascended had the same stats as exotics there wouldnt be any need to craft ascended gear. and since i can get exotics that easy i can just get a new set instead of an expensive legendary where i can change stats > > > > > > > > Let me explain: > > > > 1. Ascended armor would still allow you to infuse them (and the weapon would increase your damage range), for a 90 point attribute bonus. This you wouldn't be able to get in exotic gear. > > > > 2. Legendary gear would still have the added benefit of being able to change stats when out of combat. This would also not be possible with regular ascended or exotics. > > > > > > > > So you are arguing the point that the only reason you had for crafting legendary gear, over exotics even, was to get that 5% increase in attributes? If we lowered all attribute values as per my suggestion (today ascended gear yield 1381 maximum to a top stat, meaning todays infusions benefit you (90/1381) 6,5%. With the lower maximum they would yield (90/1200) 7,5% benefit. Meaning you would lose the last 4 percent, but the entire idea was based around normalizing stats, already it is implicit the extremes are the ones that will have to make sacrifices. This way you would actually be rewarded more for putting in the effort of crafting ascended stuff. And if those 5% were your only reason why didn't you just craft regular ascended instead? Could have saved you alot of money. > > > > > > > > And the reason I didn't get your argument is that you already can get exotics cheap and use them to try out your builds. It's still costly to try them in ascended. And it's still valuable to get legendary gear for that reason. My suggestion merely means an overall lowering of gears "full potential" across the board, and indirectly increase the discrepancy between those who use exotics and ascended/legendary in favor of those who put the time and effort into crafting them - nothing more. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > you still didnt get what i said. > > > > > > i said "try out builds at their FULL potential" thats the only reason legendary has any value. if i wanted to test them with exotic stats then id get them in exo. > > > i already said that exotics are cheap af. > > > and yes, i get ascended stuff to have more impact than some half kitten exotic builds, if it didnt have the stat advantage id have no reason to get them, mist ppl dont even have infusions in their armor btw, they only are a small amount of points > > > i determine more time and money into wvw than other ppl that only run that cheap exo stuff, ofc i want to have a benefit from that > > > pve ppl have to run ascended gear to get better results and solve the harder content, why should that be different in wvw??? in wvw those statpoints mostly make a difference in smallscale roaming, for zergs it makes almost no difference > > > this whole ez to get stuff is just for lazy ppl > > > ive played wvw for pretty much 5 years exlusively and dedicated my whole gear to that. if you normalize stats etc all my work would be for naught because all that could easily be reached by cheap kitten exotic gear that is farmed in like 5minutes in pve > > > > > > > > > > PvE people have mastered the hardest pve content in Green gear. Your point is moot. Wvw isnt pve. > > ppl did fractals lv 100 in green gear? doesnt sound like that would be possible to do (certainly not by the average fractal runner), or atleast not how it was intended by the developers > same with raids > and wvw is actually a mix of pve and pvp, you can rank up by not fighting any humans at all > There are vids of people who masterwork gear entire wing1. As for fractals, agony resistance is a must , so you cannot really use masterwork gear (but i am pretty sure theyre doable with masterwork, if we were to remove agony damage). Stat "disparity" is not as apparent in wvw, mainly because it is way less about roaming and more about zergs. Many people made legendary wvw armor EXACTLY for that cause, to be able to have that QoL stat-and runeswap feature, and dont use leggy armor outside wvw(the vast majority of PvE has 2 builds, zerk of viper anyway, and you really dont need legendary armor for that). So, forgive me for not buying that "balanced" thing. Every player who sPvPs knows that balance in sPvP is not a thing, too. If anything,fixed amulets and fixed stats it make diversity even worse. People (especially newer players) want to have the opportunity to test builds/armorstats/etc? They had better spend time in wvw, much like they spend time in PvE to grind those 1.5k+ gold coins for that "sweet" legendary skin in mindless Istan farming, or endless hours in PvE raids within PvE raid training guilds training to kill bosses, and build their LI from zero, pugging (you probably know how non-toxic PvE raid pugging is) their way up to get the skins for PvE raid legendary armor. I mean, why should they HAVE to get proper gear in that, as well? Why not just outright give them everything free, from the start? Nah, sorry. WvW is its own mode, with its own time-consuming issues, with its own grind. You wanna work for it? By all means. Reward track armors are free (exotic, yes. I have plenty of toons, from minstrel guards to roaming marshall eles with exotic armors and guess what? I do great, and by no means am I a great player. Just average.) So are LS3-LS4 tracks, for trinkets. All you need is time and commitment. But, please, do not for a moment try to convince people that this is about "balance". Nuh-uh. It is about getting for free what others have spent countless hours doing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HazyDaisy.4107 Posted August 9, 2018 Share Posted August 9, 2018 As someone was talking about in another thread, some things were added to attract more people to wvw. That armor, jewelry, etc etc etc "grind" was a big 1 of those things that was added. So yeah, the fight crowd could advocate night and day for getting rid of it, but who you gonna fight when it's gone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Etheri.5406 Posted August 9, 2018 Share Posted August 9, 2018 > @"HazyDaisy.4107" said: > As someone was talking about in another thread, some things were added to attract more people to wvw. That armor, jewelry, etc etc etc "grind" was a big 1 of those things that was added. So yeah, the fight crowd could advocate night and day for getting rid of it, but who you gonna fight when it's gone? Do you think any "fight" players enjoy fighting grinders? Grinders that alt F4 the moment they get their ass whooped? Oh wait no, they go afk their participation somewhere flipping a camp every 10 minutes out of spawn. Crying about the "effort" you did grinding WvW reminds me of all the players being upset when the game went F2P because they "paid for it!!!!!" At the end of the day; your petty motives prevent WvW from getting better which only makes your own "grind" and "accomplishments" less relevant. Unless you're decked out in 3x full legendary armor; a pvp like system gives you more freedom to change / test / alter builds for other specs to find what you enjoy. And no "pure" WvW player has 3x full legendary armor so far because of the timegate. I play WvW for fun. I'd like more players to be able to play it without grinding for months before they get on a level that can actually come close to competing. I didn't "grind" WvW for thousands of hours because I wanted armor. I did it because I enjoy it. If you're grinding and feel you should get cookies for "grinding the armor" then frankly I pity you. You know what makes it extra funny? Ascended ARMOR and WEAPONS are almost all more expensive from WvW vendor than direct crafting. Ascended TRINKETS from WvW are the most expensive in the game. Half of you stating you buy your armor from WvW and it's fine... you failed the basic math. You're better off selling your heroics of battle and crafting the armor while keeping the tickets instead of throwing away money. Then again that's exactly what I expect from the new-age wvw players. Not hardcore enough for raids or fractals so they attempt to "achieve" ascended armor in WvW by grinding it without realising they're getting scammed; then throwing a tantrum when players suggest removing it all together :trollface: Did I mention buying ASCENDED ARMOR for the ARMOR and not the SKINS from WvW is by default throwing away money AND tickets? You shoot yourself in the foot then demand others do the same so they understand your pain. Pretty funny, to be honest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voltekka.2375 Posted August 9, 2018 Share Posted August 9, 2018 > @"Etheri.5406" said: > > @"HazyDaisy.4107" said: > > As someone was talking about in another thread, some things were added to attract more people to wvw. That armor, jewelry, etc etc etc "grind" was a big 1 of those things that was added. So yeah, the fight crowd could advocate night and day for getting rid of it, but who you gonna fight when it's gone? > > Do you think any "fight" players enjoy fighting grinders? Grinders that alt F4 the moment they get their kitten whooped? Oh wait no, they go afk their participation somewhere flipping a camp every 10 minutes out of spawn. > > Crying about the "effort" you did grinding WvW reminds me of all the players being upset when the game went F2P because they "paid for it!!!!!" > At the end of the day; your petty motives prevent WvW from getting better which only makes your own "grind" and "accomplishments" less relevant. > Unless you're decked out in 3x full legendary armor; a pvp like system gives you more freedom to change / test / alter builds for other specs to find what you enjoy. > > And no "pure" WvW player has 3x full legendary armor so far because of the timegate. > > I play WvW for fun. I'd like more players to be able to play it without grinding for months before they get on a level that can actually come close to competing. I didn't "grind" WvW for thousands of hours because I wanted armor. I did it because I enjoy it. If you're grinding and feel you should get cookies for "grinding the armor" then frankly I pity you. > > You know what makes it extra funny? Ascended ARMOR and WEAPONS are almost all more expensive from WvW vendor than direct crafting. > Ascended TRINKETS from WvW are the most expensive in the game. > Half of you stating you buy your armor from WvW and it's fine... you failed the basic math. You're better off selling your heroics of battle and crafting the armor while keeping the tickets instead of throwing away money. > > Then again that's exactly what I expect from the new-age wvw players. Not hardcore enough for raids or fractals so they attempt to "achieve" ascended armor in WvW by grinding it without realising they're getting scammed; then throwing a tantrum when players suggest removing it all together :trollface: > > Did I mention buying ASCENDED ARMOR for the ARMOR and not the SKINS from WvW is by default throwing away money AND tickets? You shoot yourself in the foot then demand others do the same so they understand your pain. Pretty funny, to be honest. Funny, how you make a huge post about "Increase in WvW EU toxicity", yet keep replying in that same, toxic, aggressive tone within pretty much every subforum... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Urud.4925 Posted August 9, 2018 Share Posted August 9, 2018 Kudos to @"GwAddict.9746" for opening this thread, easily flamable. I've read good comments from ppl already geared and in favour of this idea, and obviously several comments from ppl who don't want to have their farming wasted. First of all, to the latters, don't justify yourself saying "the gear in WvW is not so important", "you must learn to play/the strategy" etc. Because if it's really like this, and the gear is not so important in WvW, like you say, then there are no reasons to reject a normalisation, since you don't need your legendary. It's understandable that the ppl who farmed a good gear ONLY to be stronger in WvW, would be upset. And I also don't like when devs change important features on-the-run, without a proper compensation. Although no one forced them to farm. The real question, imo, is: would we get more players in WvW, if the gear were normalised? I know players in my guild that never PvP because they don't know how it works/they are scared. They are good raiders even (and trash-talk the noobs in PvE), but they don't even know how a matchmaking works in PvP. Would ppl like these join WvW, if their gear didn't matter? Probably not, since they are already more geared than the average players. The people that would like this change, are probably ppl like me: the ones who play WvW few minutes per day, mostly for the dailies. I'd like to see your idea implemented, but I fear it would upset more players than the ones we'd bring into WvW. Although some changes could be done in any case (limiting the choice of the most OP sigils/runes from a pre-set list, even keeping the stats from your gear, it could be probably done). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Etheri.5406 Posted August 9, 2018 Share Posted August 9, 2018 > @"Voltekka.2375" said: > > @"Etheri.5406" said: > > > @"HazyDaisy.4107" said: > > > As someone was talking about in another thread, some things were added to attract more people to wvw. That armor, jewelry, etc etc etc "grind" was a big 1 of those things that was added. So yeah, the fight crowd could advocate night and day for getting rid of it, but who you gonna fight when it's gone? > > > > Do you think any "fight" players enjoy fighting grinders? Grinders that alt F4 the moment they get their kitten whooped? Oh wait no, they go afk their participation somewhere flipping a camp every 10 minutes out of spawn. > > > > Crying about the "effort" you did grinding WvW reminds me of all the players being upset when the game went F2P because they "paid for it!!!!!" > > At the end of the day; your petty motives prevent WvW from getting better which only makes your own "grind" and "accomplishments" less relevant. > > Unless you're decked out in 3x full legendary armor; a pvp like system gives you more freedom to change / test / alter builds for other specs to find what you enjoy. > > > > And no "pure" WvW player has 3x full legendary armor so far because of the timegate. > > > > I play WvW for fun. I'd like more players to be able to play it without grinding for months before they get on a level that can actually come close to competing. I didn't "grind" WvW for thousands of hours because I wanted armor. I did it because I enjoy it. If you're grinding and feel you should get cookies for "grinding the armor" then frankly I pity you. > > > > You know what makes it extra funny? Ascended ARMOR and WEAPONS are almost all more expensive from WvW vendor than direct crafting. > > Ascended TRINKETS from WvW are the most expensive in the game. > > Half of you stating you buy your armor from WvW and it's fine... you failed the basic math. You're better off selling your heroics of battle and crafting the armor while keeping the tickets instead of throwing away money. > > > > Then again that's exactly what I expect from the new-age wvw players. Not hardcore enough for raids or fractals so they attempt to "achieve" ascended armor in WvW by grinding it without realising they're getting scammed; then throwing a tantrum when players suggest removing it all together :trollface: > > > > Did I mention buying ASCENDED ARMOR for the ARMOR and not the SKINS from WvW is by default throwing away money AND tickets? You shoot yourself in the foot then demand others do the same so they understand your pain. Pretty funny, to be honest. > > Funny, how you make a huge post about "Increasing WvW EU toxicity", yet keep replying in that same, toxic, aggressive tone within pretty much every subforum... It's just healthy counterreaction to the aggresiveness of casuals in GW2. Raids become more toxic. Fractals become more toxic. PvP becomes more toxic. WvW becomes more toxic... Yet veterans and elitists are constantly leaving the game. And somehow, they'll still blame the hardcore players for the toxicity while promoting in EVERY gamemode to be more toxic towards other players who don't play the casual playstyle. "You can join any zerg you want, follow any comm you want, fake KP and LI, ..." followed by more rant threads about how there's only groups asking for 11313 things, and those groups are still toxic. Gee, I wonder why. Casual players are great for a game; but not when they decide how the game is played. They don't have insight on balance. They don't have insight on game design. Hell, they don't even realise when they're getting scammed by NPCs... And yes, that's exactly what buying ascended armor from WvW vendors for "ascended armor" rather than skins is. And the casual players in GW2 have gotten so spoilt their expectations are way out of wack. So my increasing toxicity in WvW? It's a post where I ask nothing but being able to play the game as I wish. Something plenty of players seem interested in cause as soon as someone elitist tags we magically :trollface: get a zoneblob within 30 minutes. Or maybe that's the loot. A post in which I state I'm blanket kicking EVERY player not willing to run a decent build; and I feel bad about that towards new players, but I have to enforce it because of the amount of players unwilling to listen when following groups. The reason new players can't join unless appropriately asking to be an exception or being very low AP is because of hypercasuals aggresively joining ANY group they "demand" to cater to them. You can call me toxic, and i'm sure 9/10 players on the forums will agree with me; but at the end of the day I'm just asking to be allowed to play the game the way we enjoy too. Which means not babysitting 90% casual snowflakes every time I do wvw or pve. I'm not alone in this either; it's something that happens across every EU server... Casual players just don't notice it. All they see is "damn, no tag again. Wvw must suck!" Toxicity was increasing in EU WvW more than a year before I posted. Not a single T1 main server has 1 pugmander left... And I wasn't on any of them :trollface: Where'd those commanders go? OH wait, bullied out of the game or at least off their server by the huge amount of casual players who still don't realise they're the reason nobody even tags? Yeah. I get it, you don't want to hear it. You don't want to hear you're at fault. You don't want to hear it's possible you do something wrong. You don't want to hear it's possible you're... not nice to other players. Yet you can see all across the game players are doing whatever they need to to avoid these nice, amazing players. Why is that? Oh right, because the players trying to avoid them are toxic and elitist! Just ignore them and join anyways! Does it suprise you it's the players who played the game for long times, who've gotten the gear same as everyone else and who are in fact elitist that are still stating gear is overrated and not needed. Compared to... pipfarming players who insist their WvW grind is some kind of accomplishment? Yeah, I'm not. I'm the elitist with all the gear, yet I'm the one stating it's perfectly fine to remove all of it. NOBODY loses anything. You don't lose gear. You can ONLY gain more options and builds to go. I'm sorry but the game is full of questionable design choices. Why exactly does timegated WvW armor cost MORE than just crafting it or even buying the timegated elements off the TP? No idea. Why does it cost 20-60g more per piece than PvP, fractal and raid counterparts? No idea yet again. Oh wait no, it's because we don't reason here based on arguments. Right, we argue based on the feelings of the players that didn't even realise they were scammed by an NPC, who feel their hard work is more important than a healthier WvW scene. Extra funny, as long term it just makes their achievement more irrelevant becuase nobody even cares about WvW. We reason based on the "feelings" of casual players who don't really know what they're doing. Half their complaints are just that : L2P issues which have nothing to do with game design or balance. So keep it up; make sure you vote for your own self-interests in the short term. Clearly anything that invalidates your HARD WORK grinding WvW for armor is awful! Somehow I'm the toxic one, yet I have no issues finding raid groups. No issues finding hundreds of players willing to follow me in wvw. Only issues with how aggresively and persistent players who do not meet the requirements of my groups; mostly because they are NOT WILLING to meet these requirements, still insist on joining. You can say it's rude to say these players can't do math, but that doesn't change the fact that anyone who does the calculations (or opens gw2efficiency) can tell that buying ascended armor from WvW is a bad choice no matter what. At no point are these arguments attacked. Just complaints about how it "feels" rude to break down other players arguments... And discussions aren't based on your feelings, sorry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MightyOne.1742 Posted August 9, 2018 Share Posted August 9, 2018 I would agree to your opinion,it probably would make the balance a lot easier and I think it will make a lot funner to be in WvW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voltekka.2375 Posted August 9, 2018 Share Posted August 9, 2018 > @"Etheri.5406" said: > > @"Voltekka.2375" said: > > > @"Etheri.5406" said: > > > > @"HazyDaisy.4107" said: > > > > As someone was talking about in another thread, some things were added to attract more people to wvw. That armor, jewelry, etc etc etc "grind" was a big 1 of those things that was added. So yeah, the fight crowd could advocate night and day for getting rid of it, but who you gonna fight when it's gone? > > > > > > Do you think any "fight" players enjoy fighting grinders? Grinders that alt F4 the moment they get their kitten whooped? Oh wait no, they go afk their participation somewhere flipping a camp every 10 minutes out of spawn. > > > > > > Crying about the "effort" you did grinding WvW reminds me of all the players being upset when the game went F2P because they "paid for it!!!!!" > > > At the end of the day; your petty motives prevent WvW from getting better which only makes your own "grind" and "accomplishments" less relevant. > > > Unless you're decked out in 3x full legendary armor; a pvp like system gives you more freedom to change / test / alter builds for other specs to find what you enjoy. > > > > > > And no "pure" WvW player has 3x full legendary armor so far because of the timegate. > > > > > > I play WvW for fun. I'd like more players to be able to play it without grinding for months before they get on a level that can actually come close to competing. I didn't "grind" WvW for thousands of hours because I wanted armor. I did it because I enjoy it. If you're grinding and feel you should get cookies for "grinding the armor" then frankly I pity you. > > > > > > You know what makes it extra funny? Ascended ARMOR and WEAPONS are almost all more expensive from WvW vendor than direct crafting. > > > Ascended TRINKETS from WvW are the most expensive in the game. > > > Half of you stating you buy your armor from WvW and it's fine... you failed the basic math. You're better off selling your heroics of battle and crafting the armor while keeping the tickets instead of throwing away money. > > > > > > Then again that's exactly what I expect from the new-age wvw players. Not hardcore enough for raids or fractals so they attempt to "achieve" ascended armor in WvW by grinding it without realising they're getting scammed; then throwing a tantrum when players suggest removing it all together :trollface: > > > > > > Did I mention buying ASCENDED ARMOR for the ARMOR and not the SKINS from WvW is by default throwing away money AND tickets? You shoot yourself in the foot then demand others do the same so they understand your pain. Pretty funny, to be honest. > > > > Funny, how you make a huge post about "Increasing WvW EU toxicity", yet keep replying in that same, toxic, aggressive tone within pretty much every subforum... > > It's just healthy counterreaction to the aggresiveness of casuals in GW2. Raids become more toxic. Fractals become more toxic. PvP becomes more toxic. WvW becomes more toxic... Yet veterans and elitists are constantly leaving the game. And somehow, they'll still blame the hardcore players for the toxicity while promoting in EVERY gamemode to be more toxic towards other players who don't play the casual playstyle. "You can join any zerg you want, follow any comm you want, fake KP and LI, ..." followed by more rant threads about how there's only groups asking for 11313 things, and those groups are still toxic. Gee, I wonder why. > > Casual players are great for a game; but not when they decide how the game is played. They don't have insight on balance. They don't have insight on game design. Hell, they don't even realise when they're getting scammed by NPCs... And yes, that's exactly what buying ascended armor from WvW vendors for "ascended armor" rather than skins is. And the casual players in GW2 have gotten so spoilt their expectations are way out of wack. > > So my increasing toxicity in WvW? It's a post where I ask nothing but being able to play the game as I wish. Something plenty of players seem interested in cause as soon as someone elitist tags we magically :trollface: get a zoneblob within 30 minutes. Or maybe that's the loot. A post in which I state I'm blanket kicking EVERY player not willing to run a decent build; and I feel bad about that towards new players, but I have to enforce it because of the amount of players unwilling to listen when following groups. The reason new players can't join unless appropriately asking to be an exception or being very low AP is because of hypercasuals aggresively joining ANY group they "demand" to cater to them. You can call me toxic, and i'm sure 9/10 players on the forums will agree with me; but at the end of the day I'm just asking to be allowed to play the game the way we enjoy too. Which means not babysitting 90% casual snowflakes every time I do wvw or pve. I'm not alone in this either; it's something that happens across every EU server... Casual players just don't notice it. All they see is "kitten, no tag again. Wvw must suck!" > > Toxicity was increasing in EU WvW more than a year before I posted. Not a single T1 main server has 1 pugmander left... And I wasn't on any of them :trollface: Where'd those commanders go? OH wait, bullied out of the game or at least off their server by the huge amount of casual players who still don't realise they're the reason nobody even tags? Yeah. I get it, you don't want to hear it. You don't want to hear you're at fault. You don't want to hear it's possible you do something wrong. You don't want to hear it's possible you're... not nice to other players. Yet you can see all across the game players are doing whatever they need to to avoid these nice, amazing players. Why is that? Oh right, because the players trying to avoid them are toxic and elitist! Just ignore them and join anyways! > > Does it suprise you it's the players who played the game for long times, who've gotten the gear same as everyone else and who are in fact elitist that are still stating gear is overrated and not needed. Compared to... pipfarming players who insist their WvW grind is some kind of accomplishment? Yeah, I'm not. I'm the elitist with all the gear, yet I'm the one stating it's perfectly fine to remove all of it. NOBODY loses anything. You don't lose gear. You can ONLY gain more options and builds to go. > > I'm sorry but the game is full of questionable design choices. Why exactly does timegated WvW armor cost MORE than just crafting it or even buying the timegated elements off the TP? No idea. Why does it cost 20-60g more per piece than PvP, fractal and raid counterparts? No idea yet again. Oh wait no, it's because we don't reason here based on arguments. Right, we argue based on the feelings of the players that didn't even realise they were scammed by an NPC, who feel their hard work is more important than a healthier WvW scene. Extra funny, as long term it just makes their achievement more irrelevant becuase nobody even cares about WvW. > > We reason based on the "feelings" of casual players who don't really know what they're doing. Half their complaints are just that : L2P issues which have nothing to do with game design or balance. So keep it up; make sure you vote for your own self-interests in the short term. Clearly anything that invalidates your HARD WORK grinding WvW for armor is awful! > > Somehow I'm the toxic one, yet I have no issues finding raid groups. No issues finding hundreds of players willing to follow me in wvw. Only issues with how aggresively and persistent players who do not meet the requirements of my groups; mostly because they are NOT WILLING to meet these requirements, still insist on joining. > > You can say it's rude to say these players can't do math, but that doesn't change the fact that anyone who does the calculations (or opens gw2efficiency) can tell that buying ascended armor from WvW is a bad choice no matter what. At no point are these arguments attacked. Just complaints about how it "feels" rude to break down other players arguments... And discussions aren't based on your feelings, sorry. I would consider changing games if I were you. GW2 is clearly disappointing you for a lot of reasons. Moreover, you try to make the game more newb-friendly by... Kicking them from your squad? Or by "not babysitting casual snowflakes"? Or that theyre somewhow "bullied" because their PvE mentality doesnt apply to WvW, a player vs player zerg mode? This is ironic. Strongly ironic. The so-called "casuals" you refer to are what 95% of the game caters to. Thatswhat this game offers. You dont like it? That is also fine. Thats why you dont see 6 raids/year, or 6 new fracts/year, or ANY major hardcore-elitist update very often. The majority of raiders and hardcores in GW2 (as far as I can tell from the forum posts) have come to terms with that. Furthermore, if you actually think it is the gear that makes WvW unaccessible, you couldnt be further away from reality. It is the same as making a pve raid build, and somehow expecting to do 42k dps because SC do it. That is absurd. Equipment does NOT make the player, that much is pretty obvious. I have been in Gandara for 5 years, and I can assure you that no commander, NOT A SINGLE ONE has ever demanded ascended, or even asked for gearcheck. They just ask for blobclasses. Thats it. Their only requirement. Nah. The majority of people who came to WvW -after rewards got reworked- left after 2 weeks maximum. I was there, with queues of 100+ on every bl, and then... Nada. They saw that the grind to get that warbringer or them sweet 2k chest skins were simply not worth the time. Even then, ANET raised the base pips people get. And a few more joined, because of that. WvW, like sPvP, is a mode that isnt for everyone. A lot of people get stressed when fighting human enemies, for whatever reason (and it is fine). I dont sPvP, because it is a toxic fiesta. Couldnt care less about amulets, or the gear. Of course you shouldnt have issues finding raid gropups. If you own 3 leg sets (and the corresponding title), it is pretty self-obvious why you arent kicked from groups. Or people share your mentality (can be both). I was in WvW long before the mode had any rewards, much less decent rewards. I like the mode, as it is. You are also free to not play any mode, if you feel it just isnt for you anymore. And, just out of curiosity, are you on Vabbi server? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Etheri.5406 Posted August 9, 2018 Share Posted August 9, 2018 > @"Voltekka.2375" said: > > @"Etheri.5406" said: > > > @"Voltekka.2375" said: > > > > @"Etheri.5406" said: > > > > > @"HazyDaisy.4107" said: > > > > > As someone was talking about in another thread, some things were added to attract more people to wvw. That armor, jewelry, etc etc etc "grind" was a big 1 of those things that was added. So yeah, the fight crowd could advocate night and day for getting rid of it, but who you gonna fight when it's gone? > > > > > > > > Do you think any "fight" players enjoy fighting grinders? Grinders that alt F4 the moment they get their kitten whooped? Oh wait no, they go afk their participation somewhere flipping a camp every 10 minutes out of spawn. > > > > > > > > Crying about the "effort" you did grinding WvW reminds me of all the players being upset when the game went F2P because they "paid for it!!!!!" > > > > At the end of the day; your petty motives prevent WvW from getting better which only makes your own "grind" and "accomplishments" less relevant. > > > > Unless you're decked out in 3x full legendary armor; a pvp like system gives you more freedom to change / test / alter builds for other specs to find what you enjoy. > > > > > > > > And no "pure" WvW player has 3x full legendary armor so far because of the timegate. > > > > > > > > I play WvW for fun. I'd like more players to be able to play it without grinding for months before they get on a level that can actually come close to competing. I didn't "grind" WvW for thousands of hours because I wanted armor. I did it because I enjoy it. If you're grinding and feel you should get cookies for "grinding the armor" then frankly I pity you. > > > > > > > > You know what makes it extra funny? Ascended ARMOR and WEAPONS are almost all more expensive from WvW vendor than direct crafting. > > > > Ascended TRINKETS from WvW are the most expensive in the game. > > > > Half of you stating you buy your armor from WvW and it's fine... you failed the basic math. You're better off selling your heroics of battle and crafting the armor while keeping the tickets instead of throwing away money. > > > > > > > > Then again that's exactly what I expect from the new-age wvw players. Not hardcore enough for raids or fractals so they attempt to "achieve" ascended armor in WvW by grinding it without realising they're getting scammed; then throwing a tantrum when players suggest removing it all together :trollface: > > > > > > > > Did I mention buying ASCENDED ARMOR for the ARMOR and not the SKINS from WvW is by default throwing away money AND tickets? You shoot yourself in the foot then demand others do the same so they understand your pain. Pretty funny, to be honest. > > > > > > Funny, how you make a huge post about "Increasing WvW EU toxicity", yet keep replying in that same, toxic, aggressive tone within pretty much every subforum... > > > > It's just healthy counterreaction to the aggresiveness of casuals in GW2. Raids become more toxic. Fractals become more toxic. PvP becomes more toxic. WvW becomes more toxic... Yet veterans and elitists are constantly leaving the game. And somehow, they'll still blame the hardcore players for the toxicity while promoting in EVERY gamemode to be more toxic towards other players who don't play the casual playstyle. "You can join any zerg you want, follow any comm you want, fake KP and LI, ..." followed by more rant threads about how there's only groups asking for 11313 things, and those groups are still toxic. Gee, I wonder why. > > > > Casual players are great for a game; but not when they decide how the game is played. They don't have insight on balance. They don't have insight on game design. Hell, they don't even realise when they're getting scammed by NPCs... And yes, that's exactly what buying ascended armor from WvW vendors for "ascended armor" rather than skins is. And the casual players in GW2 have gotten so spoilt their expectations are way out of wack. > > > > So my increasing toxicity in WvW? It's a post where I ask nothing but being able to play the game as I wish. Something plenty of players seem interested in cause as soon as someone elitist tags we magically :trollface: get a zoneblob within 30 minutes. Or maybe that's the loot. A post in which I state I'm blanket kicking EVERY player not willing to run a decent build; and I feel bad about that towards new players, but I have to enforce it because of the amount of players unwilling to listen when following groups. The reason new players can't join unless appropriately asking to be an exception or being very low AP is because of hypercasuals aggresively joining ANY group they "demand" to cater to them. You can call me toxic, and i'm sure 9/10 players on the forums will agree with me; but at the end of the day I'm just asking to be allowed to play the game the way we enjoy too. Which means not babysitting 90% casual snowflakes every time I do wvw or pve. I'm not alone in this either; it's something that happens across every EU server... Casual players just don't notice it. All they see is "kitten, no tag again. Wvw must suck!" > > > > Toxicity was increasing in EU WvW more than a year before I posted. Not a single T1 main server has 1 pugmander left... And I wasn't on any of them :trollface: Where'd those commanders go? OH wait, bullied out of the game or at least off their server by the huge amount of casual players who still don't realise they're the reason nobody even tags? Yeah. I get it, you don't want to hear it. You don't want to hear you're at fault. You don't want to hear it's possible you do something wrong. You don't want to hear it's possible you're... not nice to other players. Yet you can see all across the game players are doing whatever they need to to avoid these nice, amazing players. Why is that? Oh right, because the players trying to avoid them are toxic and elitist! Just ignore them and join anyways! > > > > Does it suprise you it's the players who played the game for long times, who've gotten the gear same as everyone else and who are in fact elitist that are still stating gear is overrated and not needed. Compared to... pipfarming players who insist their WvW grind is some kind of accomplishment? Yeah, I'm not. I'm the elitist with all the gear, yet I'm the one stating it's perfectly fine to remove all of it. NOBODY loses anything. You don't lose gear. You can ONLY gain more options and builds to go. > > > > I'm sorry but the game is full of questionable design choices. Why exactly does timegated WvW armor cost MORE than just crafting it or even buying the timegated elements off the TP? No idea. Why does it cost 20-60g more per piece than PvP, fractal and raid counterparts? No idea yet again. Oh wait no, it's because we don't reason here based on arguments. Right, we argue based on the feelings of the players that didn't even realise they were scammed by an NPC, who feel their hard work is more important than a healthier WvW scene. Extra funny, as long term it just makes their achievement more irrelevant becuase nobody even cares about WvW. > > > > We reason based on the "feelings" of casual players who don't really know what they're doing. Half their complaints are just that : L2P issues which have nothing to do with game design or balance. So keep it up; make sure you vote for your own self-interests in the short term. Clearly anything that invalidates your HARD WORK grinding WvW for armor is awful! > > > > Somehow I'm the toxic one, yet I have no issues finding raid groups. No issues finding hundreds of players willing to follow me in wvw. Only issues with how aggresively and persistent players who do not meet the requirements of my groups; mostly because they are NOT WILLING to meet these requirements, still insist on joining. > > > > You can say it's rude to say these players can't do math, but that doesn't change the fact that anyone who does the calculations (or opens gw2efficiency) can tell that buying ascended armor from WvW is a bad choice no matter what. At no point are these arguments attacked. Just complaints about how it "feels" rude to break down other players arguments... And discussions aren't based on your feelings, sorry. > > I would consider changing games if I were you. GW2 is clearly disappointing you for a lot of reasons. Moreover, you try to make the game more newb-friendly by... Kicking them from your squad? Or by "not babysitting casual snowflakes"? Or that theyre somewhow "bullied" because their PvE mentality doesnt apply to WvW, a player vs player zerg mode? This is ironic. Strongly ironic. The so-called "casuals" you refer to are what 95% of the game caters to. Thatswhat this game offers. You dont like it? That is also fine. Thats why you dont see 6 raids/year, or 6 new fracts/year, or ANY major hardcore-elitist update very often. The majority of raiders and hardcores in GW2 (as far as I can tell from the forum posts) have come to terms with that. > > Furthermore, if you actually think it is the gear that makes WvW unaccessible, you couldnt be further away from reality. It is the same as making a pve raid build, and somehow expecting to do 42k dps because SC do it. That is absurd. Equipment does NOT make the player, that much is pretty obvious. I have been in Gandara for 5 years, and I can assure you that no commander, NOT A SINGLE ONE has ever demanded ascended, or even asked for gearcheck. They just ask for blobclasses. Thats it. Their only requirement. Nah. The majority of people who came to WvW -after rewards got reworked- left after 2 weeks maximum. I was there, with queues of 100+ on every bl, and then... Nada. They saw that the grind to get that warbringer or them sweet 2k chest skins were simply not worth the time. Even then, ANET raised the base pips people get. And a few more joined, because of that. WvW, like sPvP, is a mode that isnt for everyone. A lot of people get stressed when fighting human enemies, for whatever reason (and it is fine). I dont sPvP, because it is a toxic fiesta. Couldnt care less about amulets, or the gear. > > Of course you shouldnt have issues finding raid gropups. If you own 3 leg sets (and the corresponding title), it is pretty self-obvious why you arent kicked from groups. Or people share your mentality (can be both). I was in WvW long before the mode had any rewards, much less decent rewards. I like the mode, as it is. You are also free to not play any mode, if you feel it just isnt for you anymore. And, just out of curiosity, are you on Vabbi server? You're on gankdara. Most of your commanders left, many transfering to us because they'd rather lead elitists than gankdara and howmany comms does gankdara have left? That lead public? Right. Yeah I'm sure nobody ever asked something you wouldn't do. Have fun on gankdara. 95% of the game is casual and you must be too, or leave. Keep up pretending you're friendly when you're on a server no guild or public group wants to go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HazyDaisy.4107 Posted August 9, 2018 Share Posted August 9, 2018 > @"Etheri.5406" said: > > @"HazyDaisy.4107" said: > > As someone was talking about in another thread, some things were added to attract more people to wvw. That armor, jewelry, etc etc etc "grind" was a big 1 of those things that was added. So yeah, the fight crowd could advocate night and day for getting rid of it, but who you gonna fight when it's gone? > > Do you think any "fight" players enjoy fighting grinders? It depends on your definition of the term "fighter". Back in the day, fighters were duelists, but today, "fighters" are typically blobbers that brag about KDR and the size of their squad. "Fights" today are very rarely even and in my experience most "fighters" will go after most anything so long as they outnumber it and avoid the "fights" where they don't. "Fights" today, regardless of if the opponent alt F4s or not, are a bag and a tic towards Ultimate Dominator (which is another grindy time consuming part of wvw, but "fighters" don't talk about that because it doesn't serve to bolster their agenda about gear). See, "fighters" of today aren't bothered by stat equalization, because "fighters" of today are confident they'll still dominate in "fights" regardless of THEIR gear because, once again, they only "fight" fights they can win. But, if their opponent is forced to have lower stats because of some trivial excuse like "grinding is too hard and unfair on newbies", then that stat equalization would make most "fights" even better in "fighters" eyes. There are no pure "fights" in wvw anymore, everyone that professes otherwise is full of it! Every last one of us are GRINDING for something, be it PPT, pips, AP or delusions of grandeur. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voltekka.2375 Posted August 11, 2018 Share Posted August 11, 2018 > @"Etheri.5406" said: > > @"Voltekka.2375" said: > > > @"Etheri.5406" said: > > > > @"Voltekka.2375" said: > > > > > @"Etheri.5406" said: > > > > > > @"HazyDaisy.4107" said: > > > > > > As someone was talking about in another thread, some things were added to attract more people to wvw. That armor, jewelry, etc etc etc "grind" was a big 1 of those things that was added. So yeah, the fight crowd could advocate night and day for getting rid of it, but who you gonna fight when it's gone? > > > > > > > > > > Do you think any "fight" players enjoy fighting grinders? Grinders that alt F4 the moment they get their kitten whooped? Oh wait no, they go afk their participation somewhere flipping a camp every 10 minutes out of spawn. > > > > > > > > > > Crying about the "effort" you did grinding WvW reminds me of all the players being upset when the game went F2P because they "paid for it!!!!!" > > > > > At the end of the day; your petty motives prevent WvW from getting better which only makes your own "grind" and "accomplishments" less relevant. > > > > > Unless you're decked out in 3x full legendary armor; a pvp like system gives you more freedom to change / test / alter builds for other specs to find what you enjoy. > > > > > > > > > > And no "pure" WvW player has 3x full legendary armor so far because of the timegate. > > > > > > > > > > I play WvW for fun. I'd like more players to be able to play it without grinding for months before they get on a level that can actually come close to competing. I didn't "grind" WvW for thousands of hours because I wanted armor. I did it because I enjoy it. If you're grinding and feel you should get cookies for "grinding the armor" then frankly I pity you. > > > > > > > > > > You know what makes it extra funny? Ascended ARMOR and WEAPONS are almost all more expensive from WvW vendor than direct crafting. > > > > > Ascended TRINKETS from WvW are the most expensive in the game. > > > > > Half of you stating you buy your armor from WvW and it's fine... you failed the basic math. You're better off selling your heroics of battle and crafting the armor while keeping the tickets instead of throwing away money. > > > > > > > > > > Then again that's exactly what I expect from the new-age wvw players. Not hardcore enough for raids or fractals so they attempt to "achieve" ascended armor in WvW by grinding it without realising they're getting scammed; then throwing a tantrum when players suggest removing it all together :trollface: > > > > > > > > > > Did I mention buying ASCENDED ARMOR for the ARMOR and not the SKINS from WvW is by default throwing away money AND tickets? You shoot yourself in the foot then demand others do the same so they understand your pain. Pretty funny, to be honest. > > > > > > > > Funny, how you make a huge post about "Increasing WvW EU toxicity", yet keep replying in that same, toxic, aggressive tone within pretty much every subforum... > > > > > > It's just healthy counterreaction to the aggresiveness of casuals in GW2. Raids become more toxic. Fractals become more toxic. PvP becomes more toxic. WvW becomes more toxic... Yet veterans and elitists are constantly leaving the game. And somehow, they'll still blame the hardcore players for the toxicity while promoting in EVERY gamemode to be more toxic towards other players who don't play the casual playstyle. "You can join any zerg you want, follow any comm you want, fake KP and LI, ..." followed by more rant threads about how there's only groups asking for 11313 things, and those groups are still toxic. Gee, I wonder why. > > > > > > Casual players are great for a game; but not when they decide how the game is played. They don't have insight on balance. They don't have insight on game design. Hell, they don't even realise when they're getting scammed by NPCs... And yes, that's exactly what buying ascended armor from WvW vendors for "ascended armor" rather than skins is. And the casual players in GW2 have gotten so spoilt their expectations are way out of wack. > > > > > > So my increasing toxicity in WvW? It's a post where I ask nothing but being able to play the game as I wish. Something plenty of players seem interested in cause as soon as someone elitist tags we magically :trollface: get a zoneblob within 30 minutes. Or maybe that's the loot. A post in which I state I'm blanket kicking EVERY player not willing to run a decent build; and I feel bad about that towards new players, but I have to enforce it because of the amount of players unwilling to listen when following groups. The reason new players can't join unless appropriately asking to be an exception or being very low AP is because of hypercasuals aggresively joining ANY group they "demand" to cater to them. You can call me toxic, and i'm sure 9/10 players on the forums will agree with me; but at the end of the day I'm just asking to be allowed to play the game the way we enjoy too. Which means not babysitting 90% casual snowflakes every time I do wvw or pve. I'm not alone in this either; it's something that happens across every EU server... Casual players just don't notice it. All they see is "kitten, no tag again. Wvw must suck!" > > > > > > Toxicity was increasing in EU WvW more than a year before I posted. Not a single T1 main server has 1 pugmander left... And I wasn't on any of them :trollface: Where'd those commanders go? OH wait, bullied out of the game or at least off their server by the huge amount of casual players who still don't realise they're the reason nobody even tags? Yeah. I get it, you don't want to hear it. You don't want to hear you're at fault. You don't want to hear it's possible you do something wrong. You don't want to hear it's possible you're... not nice to other players. Yet you can see all across the game players are doing whatever they need to to avoid these nice, amazing players. Why is that? Oh right, because the players trying to avoid them are toxic and elitist! Just ignore them and join anyways! > > > > > > Does it suprise you it's the players who played the game for long times, who've gotten the gear same as everyone else and who are in fact elitist that are still stating gear is overrated and not needed. Compared to... pipfarming players who insist their WvW grind is some kind of accomplishment? Yeah, I'm not. I'm the elitist with all the gear, yet I'm the one stating it's perfectly fine to remove all of it. NOBODY loses anything. You don't lose gear. You can ONLY gain more options and builds to go. > > > > > > I'm sorry but the game is full of questionable design choices. Why exactly does timegated WvW armor cost MORE than just crafting it or even buying the timegated elements off the TP? No idea. Why does it cost 20-60g more per piece than PvP, fractal and raid counterparts? No idea yet again. Oh wait no, it's because we don't reason here based on arguments. Right, we argue based on the feelings of the players that didn't even realise they were scammed by an NPC, who feel their hard work is more important than a healthier WvW scene. Extra funny, as long term it just makes their achievement more irrelevant becuase nobody even cares about WvW. > > > > > > We reason based on the "feelings" of casual players who don't really know what they're doing. Half their complaints are just that : L2P issues which have nothing to do with game design or balance. So keep it up; make sure you vote for your own self-interests in the short term. Clearly anything that invalidates your HARD WORK grinding WvW for armor is awful! > > > > > > Somehow I'm the toxic one, yet I have no issues finding raid groups. No issues finding hundreds of players willing to follow me in wvw. Only issues with how aggresively and persistent players who do not meet the requirements of my groups; mostly because they are NOT WILLING to meet these requirements, still insist on joining. > > > > > > You can say it's rude to say these players can't do math, but that doesn't change the fact that anyone who does the calculations (or opens gw2efficiency) can tell that buying ascended armor from WvW is a bad choice no matter what. At no point are these arguments attacked. Just complaints about how it "feels" rude to break down other players arguments... And discussions aren't based on your feelings, sorry. > > > > I would consider changing games if I were you. GW2 is clearly disappointing you for a lot of reasons. Moreover, you try to make the game more newb-friendly by... Kicking them from your squad? Or by "not babysitting casual snowflakes"? Or that theyre somewhow "bullied" because their PvE mentality doesnt apply to WvW, a player vs player zerg mode? This is ironic. Strongly ironic. The so-called "casuals" you refer to are what 95% of the game caters to. Thatswhat this game offers. You dont like it? That is also fine. Thats why you dont see 6 raids/year, or 6 new fracts/year, or ANY major hardcore-elitist update very often. The majority of raiders and hardcores in GW2 (as far as I can tell from the forum posts) have come to terms with that. > > > > Furthermore, if you actually think it is the gear that makes WvW unaccessible, you couldnt be further away from reality. It is the same as making a pve raid build, and somehow expecting to do 42k dps because SC do it. That is absurd. Equipment does NOT make the player, that much is pretty obvious. I have been in Gandara for 5 years, and I can assure you that no commander, NOT A SINGLE ONE has ever demanded ascended, or even asked for gearcheck. They just ask for blobclasses. Thats it. Their only requirement. Nah. The majority of people who came to WvW -after rewards got reworked- left after 2 weeks maximum. I was there, with queues of 100+ on every bl, and then... Nada. They saw that the grind to get that warbringer or them sweet 2k chest skins were simply not worth the time. Even then, ANET raised the base pips people get. And a few more joined, because of that. WvW, like sPvP, is a mode that isnt for everyone. A lot of people get stressed when fighting human enemies, for whatever reason (and it is fine). I dont sPvP, because it is a toxic fiesta. Couldnt care less about amulets, or the gear. > > > > Of course you shouldnt have issues finding raid gropups. If you own 3 leg sets (and the corresponding title), it is pretty self-obvious why you arent kicked from groups. Or people share your mentality (can be both). I was in WvW long before the mode had any rewards, much less decent rewards. I like the mode, as it is. You are also free to not play any mode, if you feel it just isnt for you anymore. And, just out of curiosity, are you on Vabbi server? > > You're on gankdara. Most of your commanders left, many transfering to us because they'd rather lead elitists than gankdara and howmany comms does gankdara have left? That lead public? Right. Yeah I'm sure nobody ever asked something you wouldn't do. > > Have fun on gankdara. 95% of the game is casual and you must be too, or leave. Keep up pretending you're friendly when you're on a server no guild or public group wants to go. Even so, myself and most others that stay in gandara play to have fun. And several commanders offer great leading, awesome TS camaraderie, we have good battles against bandwagon servers. That IS fun. Frustrating at times, too. But I digress. If 9 out of 10 people call you a toxic elitist, maybe you should consider that you actually ARE one. And this game needs less toxicity and elitism, if any at all. Of course you will find like minded people. Thankfully, you are the minority. If you are on Vabbi, it explains a great deal. Have fun! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Etheri.5406 Posted August 11, 2018 Share Posted August 11, 2018 > @"Voltekka.2375" said: > > @"Etheri.5406" said: > > > @"Voltekka.2375" said: > > > > @"Etheri.5406" said: > > > > > @"Voltekka.2375" said: > > > > > > @"Etheri.5406" said: > > > > > > > @"HazyDaisy.4107" said: > > > > > > > As someone was talking about in another thread, some things were added to attract more people to wvw. That armor, jewelry, etc etc etc "grind" was a big 1 of those things that was added. So yeah, the fight crowd could advocate night and day for getting rid of it, but who you gonna fight when it's gone? > > > > > > > > > > > > Do you think any "fight" players enjoy fighting grinders? Grinders that alt F4 the moment they get their kitten whooped? Oh wait no, they go afk their participation somewhere flipping a camp every 10 minutes out of spawn. > > > > > > > > > > > > Crying about the "effort" you did grinding WvW reminds me of all the players being upset when the game went F2P because they "paid for it!!!!!" > > > > > > At the end of the day; your petty motives prevent WvW from getting better which only makes your own "grind" and "accomplishments" less relevant. > > > > > > Unless you're decked out in 3x full legendary armor; a pvp like system gives you more freedom to change / test / alter builds for other specs to find what you enjoy. > > > > > > > > > > > > And no "pure" WvW player has 3x full legendary armor so far because of the timegate. > > > > > > > > > > > > I play WvW for fun. I'd like more players to be able to play it without grinding for months before they get on a level that can actually come close to competing. I didn't "grind" WvW for thousands of hours because I wanted armor. I did it because I enjoy it. If you're grinding and feel you should get cookies for "grinding the armor" then frankly I pity you. > > > > > > > > > > > > You know what makes it extra funny? Ascended ARMOR and WEAPONS are almost all more expensive from WvW vendor than direct crafting. > > > > > > Ascended TRINKETS from WvW are the most expensive in the game. > > > > > > Half of you stating you buy your armor from WvW and it's fine... you failed the basic math. You're better off selling your heroics of battle and crafting the armor while keeping the tickets instead of throwing away money. > > > > > > > > > > > > Then again that's exactly what I expect from the new-age wvw players. Not hardcore enough for raids or fractals so they attempt to "achieve" ascended armor in WvW by grinding it without realising they're getting scammed; then throwing a tantrum when players suggest removing it all together :trollface: > > > > > > > > > > > > Did I mention buying ASCENDED ARMOR for the ARMOR and not the SKINS from WvW is by default throwing away money AND tickets? You shoot yourself in the foot then demand others do the same so they understand your pain. Pretty funny, to be honest. > > > > > > > > > > Funny, how you make a huge post about "Increasing WvW EU toxicity", yet keep replying in that same, toxic, aggressive tone within pretty much every subforum... > > > > > > > > It's just healthy counterreaction to the aggresiveness of casuals in GW2. Raids become more toxic. Fractals become more toxic. PvP becomes more toxic. WvW becomes more toxic... Yet veterans and elitists are constantly leaving the game. And somehow, they'll still blame the hardcore players for the toxicity while promoting in EVERY gamemode to be more toxic towards other players who don't play the casual playstyle. "You can join any zerg you want, follow any comm you want, fake KP and LI, ..." followed by more rant threads about how there's only groups asking for 11313 things, and those groups are still toxic. Gee, I wonder why. > > > > > > > > Casual players are great for a game; but not when they decide how the game is played. They don't have insight on balance. They don't have insight on game design. Hell, they don't even realise when they're getting scammed by NPCs... And yes, that's exactly what buying ascended armor from WvW vendors for "ascended armor" rather than skins is. And the casual players in GW2 have gotten so spoilt their expectations are way out of wack. > > > > > > > > So my increasing toxicity in WvW? It's a post where I ask nothing but being able to play the game as I wish. Something plenty of players seem interested in cause as soon as someone elitist tags we magically :trollface: get a zoneblob within 30 minutes. Or maybe that's the loot. A post in which I state I'm blanket kicking EVERY player not willing to run a decent build; and I feel bad about that towards new players, but I have to enforce it because of the amount of players unwilling to listen when following groups. The reason new players can't join unless appropriately asking to be an exception or being very low AP is because of hypercasuals aggresively joining ANY group they "demand" to cater to them. You can call me toxic, and i'm sure 9/10 players on the forums will agree with me; but at the end of the day I'm just asking to be allowed to play the game the way we enjoy too. Which means not babysitting 90% casual snowflakes every time I do wvw or pve. I'm not alone in this either; it's something that happens across every EU server... Casual players just don't notice it. All they see is "kitten, no tag again. Wvw must suck!" > > > > > > > > Toxicity was increasing in EU WvW more than a year before I posted. Not a single T1 main server has 1 pugmander left... And I wasn't on any of them :trollface: Where'd those commanders go? OH wait, bullied out of the game or at least off their server by the huge amount of casual players who still don't realise they're the reason nobody even tags? Yeah. I get it, you don't want to hear it. You don't want to hear you're at fault. You don't want to hear it's possible you do something wrong. You don't want to hear it's possible you're... not nice to other players. Yet you can see all across the game players are doing whatever they need to to avoid these nice, amazing players. Why is that? Oh right, because the players trying to avoid them are toxic and elitist! Just ignore them and join anyways! > > > > > > > > Does it suprise you it's the players who played the game for long times, who've gotten the gear same as everyone else and who are in fact elitist that are still stating gear is overrated and not needed. Compared to... pipfarming players who insist their WvW grind is some kind of accomplishment? Yeah, I'm not. I'm the elitist with all the gear, yet I'm the one stating it's perfectly fine to remove all of it. NOBODY loses anything. You don't lose gear. You can ONLY gain more options and builds to go. > > > > > > > > I'm sorry but the game is full of questionable design choices. Why exactly does timegated WvW armor cost MORE than just crafting it or even buying the timegated elements off the TP? No idea. Why does it cost 20-60g more per piece than PvP, fractal and raid counterparts? No idea yet again. Oh wait no, it's because we don't reason here based on arguments. Right, we argue based on the feelings of the players that didn't even realise they were scammed by an NPC, who feel their hard work is more important than a healthier WvW scene. Extra funny, as long term it just makes their achievement more irrelevant becuase nobody even cares about WvW. > > > > > > > > We reason based on the "feelings" of casual players who don't really know what they're doing. Half their complaints are just that : L2P issues which have nothing to do with game design or balance. So keep it up; make sure you vote for your own self-interests in the short term. Clearly anything that invalidates your HARD WORK grinding WvW for armor is awful! > > > > > > > > Somehow I'm the toxic one, yet I have no issues finding raid groups. No issues finding hundreds of players willing to follow me in wvw. Only issues with how aggresively and persistent players who do not meet the requirements of my groups; mostly because they are NOT WILLING to meet these requirements, still insist on joining. > > > > > > > > You can say it's rude to say these players can't do math, but that doesn't change the fact that anyone who does the calculations (or opens gw2efficiency) can tell that buying ascended armor from WvW is a bad choice no matter what. At no point are these arguments attacked. Just complaints about how it "feels" rude to break down other players arguments... And discussions aren't based on your feelings, sorry. > > > > > > I would consider changing games if I were you. GW2 is clearly disappointing you for a lot of reasons. Moreover, you try to make the game more newb-friendly by... Kicking them from your squad? Or by "not babysitting casual snowflakes"? Or that theyre somewhow "bullied" because their PvE mentality doesnt apply to WvW, a player vs player zerg mode? This is ironic. Strongly ironic. The so-called "casuals" you refer to are what 95% of the game caters to. Thatswhat this game offers. You dont like it? That is also fine. Thats why you dont see 6 raids/year, or 6 new fracts/year, or ANY major hardcore-elitist update very often. The majority of raiders and hardcores in GW2 (as far as I can tell from the forum posts) have come to terms with that. > > > > > > Furthermore, if you actually think it is the gear that makes WvW unaccessible, you couldnt be further away from reality. It is the same as making a pve raid build, and somehow expecting to do 42k dps because SC do it. That is absurd. Equipment does NOT make the player, that much is pretty obvious. I have been in Gandara for 5 years, and I can assure you that no commander, NOT A SINGLE ONE has ever demanded ascended, or even asked for gearcheck. They just ask for blobclasses. Thats it. Their only requirement. Nah. The majority of people who came to WvW -after rewards got reworked- left after 2 weeks maximum. I was there, with queues of 100+ on every bl, and then... Nada. They saw that the grind to get that warbringer or them sweet 2k chest skins were simply not worth the time. Even then, ANET raised the base pips people get. And a few more joined, because of that. WvW, like sPvP, is a mode that isnt for everyone. A lot of people get stressed when fighting human enemies, for whatever reason (and it is fine). I dont sPvP, because it is a toxic fiesta. Couldnt care less about amulets, or the gear. > > > > > > Of course you shouldnt have issues finding raid gropups. If you own 3 leg sets (and the corresponding title), it is pretty self-obvious why you arent kicked from groups. Or people share your mentality (can be both). I was in WvW long before the mode had any rewards, much less decent rewards. I like the mode, as it is. You are also free to not play any mode, if you feel it just isnt for you anymore. And, just out of curiosity, are you on Vabbi server? > > > > You're on gankdara. Most of your commanders left, many transfering to us because they'd rather lead elitists than gankdara and howmany comms does gankdara have left? That lead public? Right. Yeah I'm sure nobody ever asked something you wouldn't do. > > > > Have fun on gankdara. 95% of the game is casual and you must be too, or leave. Keep up pretending you're friendly when you're on a server no guild or public group wants to go. > > Even so, myself and most others that stay in gandara play to have fun. And several commanders offer great leading, awesome TS camaraderie, we have good battles against bandwagon servers. That IS fun. Frustrating at times, too. But I digress. > > If 9 out of 10 people call you a toxic elitist, maybe you should consider that you actually ARE one. And this game needs less toxicity and elitism, if any at all. Of course you will find like minded people. Thankfully, you are the minority. If you are on Vabbi, it explains a great deal. > Have fun! Whatever you wish to believe. Your TS community is barely a fraction of your players. Bandwagonners don't even try to get battles from you, for the record. Thankfully, by continuously telling everyone who doesn't agree with you to quit the game you're now the majority. Fortunately, it also makes toxicity everywhere worse too. The harder you try to be accepted in the most toxic of ways, the more players will treat you in kind. And I'm just around to do exactly that. Meanwhile I'll watch casuals scramble around paying 20$ or 500g+ to move to bandwagon servers only to effectively kill them because truthfully, players don't want to play with them. If you think that doesn't happen, lets see what happens to a few pug-ruled servers soon ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaiser.9873 Posted August 11, 2018 Share Posted August 11, 2018 This seems like a group of sPvPers that want to make WvW into sPvP. You want to play in exotics? Play in exotics. Chances are any "new" people to WvW will adapt very quickly. I still contend this comes across as very entitled. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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