Taimi's Magical Adventure

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

> @"Oglaf.1074" said:

> The tl;dr notes on Taimi is the following:

>

> Anet writers are kinda lazy and need a token Asura to pull a Deus Ex Machina out of their butt to constantly move the plot forward. Thus the apparent focus on Taimi over all other supporting NPCs.

>

> Seriously, replay the chapters involving Balthazar and keep count on how often they rely on it. :weary:

 

I really think people need to learn what "Dues Ex Machina" actually refers to...

 

People seem to just toss out the term for any plot development they find to be poor writing. There's more ways to have bad narrative than a Dues Ex Machina, folks...

[Oglaf.1074]

> @"Konig Des Todes.2086" said:

> > @"Oglaf.1074" said:

> > The tl;dr notes on Taimi is the following:

> >

> > Anet writers are kinda lazy and need a token Asura to pull a Deus Ex Machina out of their butt to constantly move the plot forward. Thus the apparent focus on Taimi over all other supporting NPCs.

> >

> > Seriously, replay the chapters involving Balthazar and keep count on how often they rely on it. :weary:

>

> I really think people need to learn what "Dues Ex Machina" actually refers to...

>

> People seem to just toss out the term for any plot development they find to be poor writing. There's more ways to have bad narrative than a Dues Ex Machina, folks...

 

I know very well what it means, thank you very much. Although I guess the proper term would be _Asura Ex Machina_.

 

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

It's not an "ex machina" at all, given that it's not coming out of nowhere but has an establishment from prior storylines, and it doesn't solve all the issues.

 

The Commander coming up with Mordremoth's weakness? That's a dues ex machina.

 

Taimi being inspired by a comment the Commander made to see if Primordus and Jormag are each other weaknesses and comes back the next episode to confirm such? Not a dues ex machina. Taimi utilizing a previously established machine to perform a slight alteration of its original function? Not a dues ex machina. Neither come out of nowhere and neither solves a plot issue, but establishes a plot issue. Even Taimi suddenly figuring out that killing one more Elder Dragon will be the end of Tyria isn't a real dues ex machina, though it certainly is the closest to one that Taimi developes.

 

Taimi is an exposition device, not a dues ex machina (or plot solving device).

[Oglaf.1074]

We’ll have to agree to disagree then.

 

Strongly.

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

There's no "agree to disagree" about facts. It's either a fact, or it isn't.

 

And in this case, Taimi isn't a dues ex machina (or "asura ex machina" if you want to butcher the phrase even more) at all, and that's a _fact._

 

You agree to disagree with _opinions_, and the opinion here is whether or not using Taimi should be done, or whether using Taimi as used is good writing. _That_ is where you can agree to disagree.

 

And in that regard, I'm not disagreeing much, she is a bit overused as an exposition device. But with decent reason at least, the only established characters who could fulfill the same exposition roles as of Season 3 would be Phlunt or an Exalted like Ruka.

[White Kitsunee.4620]

Asuran techno babble is pretty ex machina in general.

Balthazar placed large magical barriers in the heart of the volcano? Taimi just so happens to have finished with scruffy 2.0 (believable) with "heat" resistance , "oh hey look at these giant magical barriers that I've never seem before, let me rework my on-board scanners so I can not only figure out what this is but also figure out how to break through these giant god barriers.

 

Hey we need to move on assaulting joko and need to transport 3 or 4 separate armies over a long distance, fast.

Small robot asura- hey did I mention I know how to break into space time and can probobly create a space portal from nothing but my arm.

How did the olklahoman charr and corsairs even get over there in the first place?

[Oglaf.1074]

> @"White Kitsunee.4620" said:

> Asuran techno babble is pretty ex machina in general.

> Balthazar placed large magical barriers in the heart of the volcano? Taimi just so happens to have finished with scruffy 2.0 (believable) with "heat" resistance , "oh hey look at these giant magical barriers that I've never seem before, let me rework my on-board scanners so I can not only figure out what this is but also figure out how to break through these giant god barriers.

>

> Hey we need to move on assaulting joko and need to transport 3 or 4 separate armies over a long distance, fast.

> Small robot asura- hey did I mention I know how to break into space time and can probobly create a space portal from nothing but my arm.

> How did the olklahoman charr and corsairs even get over there in the first place?

 

Exactly, thank you.

 

Storywise the entire point of Asura characters is to do just that, which is a kitten shame and waste of potential. We have this awesome character who has cheated death by transferring their conciousness into a golem body - which is something amazing when you think about it - yet all he is really used for is the abovementioned arm scenario.

[ugrakarma.9416]

> @"White Kitsunee.4620" said:

> Asuran techno babble is pretty ex machina in general.

> Balthazar placed large magical barriers in the heart of the volcano? Taimi just so happens to have finished with scruffy 2.0 (believable) with "heat" resistance , "oh hey look at these giant magical barriers that I've never seem before, let me rework my on-board scanners so I can not only figure out what this is but also figure out how to break through these giant god barriers.

>

> Hey we need to move on assaulting joko and need to transport 3 or 4 separate armies over a long distance, fast.

> Small robot asura- hey did I mention I know how to break into space time and can probobly create a space portal from nothing but my arm.

> How did the olklahoman charr and corsairs even get over there in the first place?

 

Deus Ex-Machine or not Deus ex-machine, the problem that its becoming over-used.

 

Traditionally, in fantasy scenarios, the solution is magical, but magical, usually comes with some history behind where that power came from. Which makes the history much more polished, the problem that is already a _cliché_ coming with a magical artifact, collected on some mysterious place to solve something(like Braham _magical scroll_).

 

The technological solution if on the one hand has the merit of balancing magic as a solution to everything, on the other hand is much more "lazy" to write, usually does not need much explanation: someone very genius has created a device too complex to be explained , gives some name that reflects this complexity, push a button and "poft", problems solved.

 

[Oglaf.1074]

> @"ugrakarma.9416" said:

> The technological solution if on the one hand has the merit of balancing magic as a solution to everything, on the other hand is much more "lazy" to write, usually does not need much explanation: someone very genius has created a device too complex to be explained , gives some name that reflects this complexity, push a button and "poft", problems solved.

 

And _that_ is why it is Asura Ex Machina. It would be no different if a god-like figure beamed down and clapped his hands to solve the problem.

 

 

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

> @"White Kitsunee.4620" said:

> Asuran techno babble is pretty ex machina in general.

> Balthazar placed large magical barriers in the heart of the volcano? Taimi just so happens to have finished with scruffy 2.0 (believable) with "heat" resistance , "oh hey look at these giant magical barriers that I've never seem before, let me rework my on-board scanners so I can not only figure out what this is but also figure out how to break through these giant god barriers.

>

> Hey we need to move on assaulting joko and need to transport 3 or 4 separate armies over a long distance, fast.

> Small robot asura- hey did I mention I know how to break into space time and can probobly create a space portal from nothing but my arm.

> How did the olklahoman charr and corsairs even get over there in the first place?

 

While asura magitech is most certainly overused, I wouldn't call it "dues ex machinas", since they're not coming out of nowhere. I mean, you can figure out the weakness of those barriers by simply looking at it, given the weak points were _obvious anchors_. That, tbh, was more someone who just made a new invention showing off and not "oh noes the only way to get through is asura magitech~ Whatever shall we do, oh look here's Taimi with solution."

 

And with the portal and armies, that didn't come out of nowhere as it was from the establishment of the prior two episodes; that's more like chekov's gun in terms of literary devices (though they really shouldn't have had the Istani Sunspears and Olmakhan go through that portal since the entire point of the portal was to cut down time on heading to Kourna, and they were closer to Kourna than either Amnoon or Tombs).

[White Kitsunee.4620]

> @"Konig Des Todes.2086" said:

> > @"White Kitsunee.4620" said:

> > Asuran techno babble is pretty ex machina in general.

> And with the portal and armies, that didn't come out of nowhere as it was from the establishment of the prior two episodes; that's more like chekov's gun in terms of literary devices (though they really shouldn't have had the Istani Sunspears and Olmakhan go through that portal since the entire point of the portal was to cut down time on heading to Kourna, and they were closer to Kourna than either Amnoon or Tombs).

 

I was more confused on how the Oklahoman charr and corsairs got there, as to my memory we never told them we were declaring war let alone where the portal was. I'm sorry if i came off with the wrong Point there.

 

Also I don't mean to say asuran tech in general was like that, previously it's been well established in the story before being used. For example in the build up to zhaitan we discuss the building of the cannon before the battle, and it's implied that it's being built during the build up to the fight. Exact same thing with the lazet we were going to kill primordous with. Personally I don't really mind having magi tech be the solution to a problem, I just dislike how Taimi and blish just invent ways to solve problems on the spot.

I'm reminded of that one Jimmy neutron vs Timmy turner crossover episode, where Timmy is battling Jimmy in a battle of wits, (he tricked some girls making them think he was super smart) and to counter jimmy's inventions he runs behind a tree and 'invents' something to 1-up jimmy. While in reality he was just wishing to his fairy godparents to give him whatever gizmo he needed. Now that I say it out loud isn't Taimi and Jimmy neutron voiced by the same actress anyway?

[Coyote.8391]

Taimi is very helpful from the sidelines. She's not issuing orders, just relaying information.

 

Also, I totally thought Taimi was voiced by the Jimmy Neutron voice actor too. :lol:

[Overlord RainyDay.2084]

> @"Oglaf.1074" said:

> > @"ugrakarma.9416" said:

> > The technological solution if on the one hand has the merit of balancing magic as a solution to everything, on the other hand is much more "lazy" to write, usually does not need much explanation: someone very genius has created a device too complex to be explained , gives some name that reflects this complexity, push a button and "poft", problems solved.

>

> And _that_ is why it is Asura Ex Machina. It would be no different if a god-like figure beamed down and clapped his hands to solve the problem.

>

>

 

Sylvari had similar thing going as well, at least up until the end of HoT. Have a problem, there's a magical seed for that? Need to grow a mile-long vine wall in 30 seconds? Lets just plant this seed. Need to view events from decades ago that nobody witnessed? The pale tree might have a seed for that! There's nothing in the world that can undo dragon corruption! Well... except for this sword Mother gave me. The only way to win is to mind-meld with a god-like being and have a literal battle of wits? What a coincidence! Let me tell you about this amazing skill I've never mentioned before just now.

 

Human magic, especially mesmer magic ends up being used to miraculously solve all sorts of problems too. It's usually just Norn and Charr who get the short end of the stick when it comes to getting to pull solutions out of their buttcape.

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

> @"White Kitsunee.4620" said:

> > @"Konig Des Todes.2086" said:

> > > @"White Kitsunee.4620" said:

> > > Asuran techno babble is pretty ex machina in general.

> > And with the portal and armies, that didn't come out of nowhere as it was from the establishment of the prior two episodes; that's more like chekov's gun in terms of literary devices (though they really shouldn't have had the Istani Sunspears and Olmakhan go through that portal since the entire point of the portal was to cut down time on heading to Kourna, and they were closer to Kourna than either Amnoon or Tombs).

>

> I was more confused on how the Oklahoman charr and corsairs got there, as to my memory we never told them we were declaring war let alone where the portal was. I'm sorry if i came off with the wrong Point there.

 

We didn't directly, but we have long distance communicators now, and it sounds like Rox remained with the Olmakhan between episodes; in addition, how did we contact Sayida during Episode 2? Via communicator and a Dragon's Watch member going to them. Rytlock, Canach, Rox, and Braham - none of them were in amnoon, but probably with our various allies.

 

Still, having the southern Elonian allies come in via the portal (well, corsairs didn't, so that's better), is weird given the narrative excuse for the portal.

 

> @"White Kitsunee.4620" said:

> Also I don't mean to say asuran tech in general was like that, previously it's been well established in the story before being used. For example in the build up to zhaitan we discuss the building of the cannon before the battle, and it's implied that it's being built during the build up to the fight. Exact same thing with the lazet we were going to kill primordous with. Personally I don't really mind having magi tech be the solution to a problem, I just dislike how Taimi and blish just invent ways to solve problems on the spot.

 

But the portal was built up, after all wasn't it the portals that Blish was working on at Rata Primus while Gorrik was working on the Scarab Plague, or something along those lines? And they didn't really invent anything else (to "solve problems" or otherwise, unless we're talking a roller beetle saddle that Blish spent the entire time we went out to get food and parts working on it).

[Eekasqueak.7850]

> @"Konig Des Todes.2086" said:

> > @"White Kitsunee.4620" said:

> > > @"Konig Des Todes.2086" said:

> > > > @"White Kitsunee.4620" said:

> > > > Asuran techno babble is pretty ex machina in general.

> > > And with the portal and armies, that didn't come out of nowhere as it was from the establishment of the prior two episodes; that's more like chekov's gun in terms of literary devices (though they really shouldn't have had the Istani Sunspears and Olmakhan go through that portal since the entire point of the portal was to cut down time on heading to Kourna, and they were closer to Kourna than either Amnoon or Tombs).

> >

> > I was more confused on how the Oklahoman charr and corsairs got there, as to my memory we never told them we were declaring war let alone where the portal was. I'm sorry if i came off with the wrong Point there.

>

> We didn't directly, but we have long distance communicators now, and it sounds like Rox remained with the Olmakhan between episodes; in addition, how did we contact Sayida during Episode 2? Via communicator and a Dragon's Watch member going to them. Rytlock, Canach, Rox, and Braham - none of them were in amnoon, but probably with our various allies.

>

> Still, having the southern Elonian allies come in via the portal (well, corsairs didn't, so that's better), is weird given the narrative excuse for the portal.

>

> > @"White Kitsunee.4620" said:

> > Also I don't mean to say asuran tech in general was like that, previously it's been well established in the story before being used. For example in the build up to zhaitan we discuss the building of the cannon before the battle, and it's implied that it's being built during the build up to the fight. Exact same thing with the lazet we were going to kill primordous with. Personally I don't really mind having magi tech be the solution to a problem, I just dislike how Taimi and blish just invent ways to solve problems on the spot.

>

> But the portal was built up, after all wasn't it the portals that Blish was working on at Rata Primus while Gorrik was working on the Scarab Plague, or something along those lines? And they didn't really invent anything else (to "solve problems" or otherwise, unless we're talking a roller beetle saddle that Blish spent the entire time we went out to get food and parts working on it).

 

Blish's invisibility was also a Chekhov's gun, when we walk in on the brother's in episode two he's cloaked, and we even find stealth tech we can use on the way to them. So us being able to use a piece of him- the arm, to cloak made perfect sense.