No elite spec quest?

[Amaranthe.3578]

Anyone else thinks its weird we dont get a short quest to unlock the "ways" of our new shiny e-specs?

It would help make sense of how we suddenly learn this new path and give the espec a place the world/story.

 

[Algreg.3629]

nope. In theory, we learn this incrementally. Just some of us happen to have saved a lot of HP. And we already have enough wild goose chases in game. I like it the way it is.

[GreyWolf.8670]

> @"Algreg.3629" said:

> nope. In theory, we learn this incrementally. Just some of us happen to have saved a lot of HP. And we already have enough wild goose chases in game. I like it the way it is.

 

This. I do not want even more obstacle courses to go through to play the game. There's enough already.

[YoukiNeko.6047]

> @"Amaranthe.3578" said:

> Anyone else thinks its weird we dont get a short quest to unlock the "ways" of our new shiny e-specs?

> It would help make sense of how we suddenly learn this new path and give the espec a place the world/story.

>

 

Actual quests for every elite spec and the revenant was something I was hoping for.

But after so many years I've given up.

[Randulf.7614]

The reasons appear to be multi fold;

 

Firstly they don't want too many gates to getting started, especially for wvwers who will have no time for any of that. It's one of the reasons hero points carried over from core/expacs to the next expansion - accessibility

 

Secondly, it's prob a fair amount of extra work for almost no appreciable gain. Instead they have NPC's who are scattered around PoF maps who will talk in more detail about each spec.

 

Such quests are cool, but I suspect the vast majority of players just want to get into the spec as quickly as possible, with minimal fuss and hurdles

[YoukiNeko.6047]

> @"Randulf.7614" said:

> The reasons appear to be multi fold;

>

> Firstly they don't want too many gates to getting started, especially for wvwers who will have no time for any of that. It's one of the reasons hero points carried over from core/expacs to the next expansion - accessibility

>

> Secondly, it's prob a fair amount of extra work for almost no appreciable gain. Instead they have NPC's who are scattered around PoF maps who will talk in more detail about each spec.

>

> Such quests are cool, but I suspect the vast majority of players just want to get into the spec as quickly as possible, with minimal fuss and hurdles

 

It's kind of sad how MMORPGs went from DND based sandbox games to theme park grind time sinks.

[ReaverKane.7598]

I agree with OP and i believe it's kinda sad that they missed out on the oportunity to introduce us to the lore behind the classes and elites a bit better.

And it could have been done without any obstacles:

The whole process could be just like it is now, with the exception of the ascended weapon.

Instead of a generic bunch of achievements and chores, they could have set it up like the "Winner weapons" or like the first part of the original precursor crafting quests.

They could have had us find out the origins of the elite spec, and it's lore in order to create the "ultimate weapon" for that class.

 

The generic achievements are easy i guess... I mean that's pretty much the problem with GW2 right now... Creativity is at an all time low, and they're pretty much just using the cookie cutter mould for most stuff they release.

The only exception seems to be the current events team which have been making a superlative job of keeping the game interesting.

[Malafaia.8903]

I miss a quest to unlock elite specs so much! It would make it A LOT more meaningful.

I WOULD LOVE TO LEARN HOW TO BE A SCOURGE WITH JOKO HIMSELF.

[Turin.6921]

Theoretically you do. Just the HP requirements are so low that if you are are doing some map completion you have enough from the get go. Well originally It was supposed to require more effort to unlock them. More HP that would require you to go through a great deal of the map to finish it.

 

But most people did not like that. The guild wars 2 audience is not the type that would like that (for better or worse).

 

But there is a way to make the journey meaningful. If you consider the Specialization Weapon as the completeness of your Elite Spec. Unlocking is makes for a nice quest to follow and has some nice connection to the lore and can fulfill the idea of a journey connected to the Spec. BTW there are also e-Spec NPCs spread throughout PoF that give the basic lore of the Spec.

[Danikat.8537]

There wasn't anything to introduce the elite specs in HoT but in PoF there's various NPCs who can tell you about them - at first just vague hints but that leads to other NPCs who actually use that specialisation and can tell you about it in detail, it's just optional.

 

On my ranger I actually held off on training the Soulbeast spec (even though I had more than enough hero points) until I'd spoken to Ebelek Eze to learn about the specialisation, then I trained it up gradually while experimenting with the skills. But I'm glad I didn't need to do that on other characters where I want to start training an elite spec with hero points I've gotten from core Tyria but I'm not ready to do the expansion stories on them yet.

 

> @"YoukiNeko.6047" said:

> > @"Randulf.7614" said:

> > The reasons appear to be multi fold;

> >

> > Firstly they don't want too many gates to getting started, especially for wvwers who will have no time for any of that. It's one of the reasons hero points carried over from core/expacs to the next expansion - accessibility

> >

> > Secondly, it's prob a fair amount of extra work for almost no appreciable gain. Instead they have NPC's who are scattered around PoF maps who will talk in more detail about each spec.

> >

> > Such quests are cool, but I suspect the vast majority of players just want to get into the spec as quickly as possible, with minimal fuss and hurdles

>

> It's kind of sad how MMORPGs went from DND based sandbox games to theme park grind time sinks.

 

It's more that different games are influenced by different things. MMORPGs took as much from hack and slash dungeon crawlers as DnD and other story-driven RPGs. For a lot of people early MMOs like Runescape were all about levelling up and gaining more powerful equipment and quests were just a way of doing that (and therefore a barrier to progression).

[YoukiNeko.6047]

> @"Danikat.8537" said:

> There wasn't anything to introduce the elite specs in HoT but in PoF there's various NPCs who can tell you about them - at first just vague hints but that leads to other NPCs who actually use that specialisation and can tell you about it in detail, it's just optional.

>

> On my ranger I actually held off on training the Soulbeast spec (even though I had more than enough hero points) until I'd spoken to Ebelek Eze to learn about the specialisation, then I trained it up gradually while experimenting with the skills. But I'm glad I didn't need to do that on other characters where I want to start training an elite spec with hero points I've gotten from core Tyria but I'm not ready to do the expansion stories on them yet.

>

> > @"YoukiNeko.6047" said:

> > > @"Randulf.7614" said:

> > > The reasons appear to be multi fold;

> > >

> > > Firstly they don't want too many gates to getting started, especially for wvwers who will have no time for any of that. It's one of the reasons hero points carried over from core/expacs to the next expansion - accessibility

> > >

> > > Secondly, it's prob a fair amount of extra work for almost no appreciable gain. Instead they have NPC's who are scattered around PoF maps who will talk in more detail about each spec.

> > >

> > > Such quests are cool, but I suspect the vast majority of players just want to get into the spec as quickly as possible, with minimal fuss and hurdles

> >

> > It's kind of sad how MMORPGs went from DND based sandbox games to theme park grind time sinks.

>

> It's more that different games are influenced by different things. MMORPGs took as much from hack and slash dungeon crawlers as DnD and other story-driven RPGs. For a lot of people early MMOs like Runescape were all about levelling up and gaining more powerful equipment and quests were just a way of doing that (and therefore a barrier to progression).

 

And for many people even earlier MMORPGs like Ultima Online were about role playing your character.

[Halan.8951]

..........

 

[Dante.1763]

I really dont want to spend a bunch of time "finding" or "learning" the elite spec. I want to play with it right from the start so i can learn and play and tinker with my builds.

[Hyper Cutter.9376]

Also the quest thing would be really tedious for people with lots of alts, just saying.

 

> @"Turin.6921" said:

> But most people did not like that. The guild wars 2 audience is not the type that would like that (for better or worse).

People didn't like it because they wanted to play HoT _with_ their elite specs, not _for_ them.

[Ashantara.8731]

> @"Amaranthe.3578" said:

> Anyone else thinks its weird we dont get a short quest to unlock the "ways" of our new shiny e-specs?

 

Yes. In PoF, I wondered who those Elite Spec hero minis were, as I never met any of them... A bit of story would have been nice.

 

[Pifil.5193]

Yeah, I wanted a quest or story to introduce and unlock the elite specs in PvE. I think it's a shame that they're just something you immediately unlock.

[Eloc Freidon.5692]

A lot of the "stories" are integrated in the spec weapon collections.

[ReaverKane.7598]

> @"Dante.1763" said:

> I really dont want to spend a bunch of time "finding" or "learning" the elite spec. I want to play with it right from the start so i can learn and play and tinker with my builds.

That's why i suggested putting in the weapons collections.

 

> @"Eloc Freidon.5692" said:

> A lot of the "stories" are integrated in the spec weapon collections.

Where? There's nothing to it that can even be constituted remotely as a "story".

HoT Weapons constitute of the following:

The Exotic weapon that you get for unlocking a specialization and unlocks the Ascended one.

3 drops from a few specific enemies.

A mystic weapon

A "Inscription" of the class that's purchased for Crystaline Ore

A thing you get from stealth-gliding with the profession

An item you buy from Itzel

A Sharpening stone

a mushroom from killing invisible mushrooms

the armor piece from completing the specialization

An item you get from completing a map

A weapon you get for completing a second collection

 

The only story this tells is of a player being asked to pretty much repeat all the HoT content over and over every time you want one of those weapons, plus a few unrelated to anything RNG items.

 

In POF it's pretty much the same thing... Get random drops, buy stuff from heart vendors, spend a mystic coin in the wishing well, do bounties, do a race, get a few very rare weapons, get a caffinated skritt, get the other specialization items, complete a map...

 

Compare this to the half a dozen achievements that you do for the Winning weapons, and there's simply no contest when comparing them. There's more story in a single piece of dialogue with those ghosts than the whole entirety of specialization collections.

 

> @"Halan.8951" said:

> > @"ReaverKane.7598" said:

> > I agree with OP and i believe it's kinda sad that they missed out on the oportunity to introduce us to the lore behind the classes and elites a bit better.

> > And it could have been done without any obstacles:

> > The whole process could be just like it is now, with the exception of the ascended weapon.

> > Instead of a generic bunch of achievements and chores, they could have set it up like the "Winner weapons" or like the first part of the original precursor crafting quests.

> > They could have had us find out the origins of the elite spec, and it's lore in order to create the "ultimate weapon" for that class.

> Artifact weapons in WoW-Legion had just that. Different quest to obtain them (each class specialization had one), **and readable lore after researching its history**.

>

That's another thing that's glaringly missing in GW2 since the start.

A proper place to review collected Lore. It's so sad that a game that wants to be so great and so PvE-centric missed on something as omnipresent as a Bestiary or a Lore-book.

But then again the game turned more to please people looking for instant gratification instead of the traditional RPG fans that look for lore and a story.

[Dante.1763]

> @"ReaverKane.7598" said:

> > @"Dante.1763" said:

> > I really dont want to spend a bunch of time "finding" or "learning" the elite spec. I want to play with it right from the start so i can learn and play and tinker with my builds.

> That's why i suggested putting in the weapons collections.

>

> > @"Eloc Freidon.5692" said:

> > A lot of the "stories" are integrated in the spec weapon collections.

> Where? There's nothing to it that can even be constituted remotely as a "story".

> HoT Weapons constitute of the following:

> The Exotic weapon that you get for unlocking a specialization and unlocks the Ascended one.

> 3 drops from a few specific enemies.

> A mystic weapon

> A "Inscription" of the class that's purchased for Crystaline Ore

> A thing you get from stealth-gliding with the profession

> An item you buy from Itzel

> A Sharpening stone

> a mushroom from killing invisible mushrooms

> the armor piece from completing the specialization

> An item you get from completing a map

> A weapon you get for completing a second collection

>

> The only story this tells is of a player being asked to pretty much repeat all the HoT content over and over every time you want one of those weapons, plus a few unrelated to anything RNG items.

>

> In POF it's pretty much the same thing... Get random drops, buy stuff from heart vendors, spend a mystic coin in the wishing well, do bounties, do a race, get a few very rare weapons, get a caffinated skritt, get the other specialization items, complete a map...

>

> Compare this to the half a dozen achievements that you do for the Winning weapons, and there's simply no contest when comparing them. There's more story in a single piece of dialogue with those ghosts than the whole entirety of specialization collections.

>

> > @"Halan.8951" said:

> > > @"ReaverKane.7598" said:

> > > I agree with OP and i believe it's kinda sad that they missed out on the oportunity to introduce us to the lore behind the classes and elites a bit better.

> > > And it could have been done without any obstacles:

> > > The whole process could be just like it is now, with the exception of the ascended weapon.

> > > Instead of a generic bunch of achievements and chores, they could have set it up like the "Winner weapons" or like the first part of the original precursor crafting quests.

> > > They could have had us find out the origins of the elite spec, and it's lore in order to create the "ultimate weapon" for that class.

> > Artifact weapons in WoW-Legion had just that. Different quest to obtain them (each class specialization had one), **and readable lore after researching its history**.

> >

> That's another thing that's glaringly missing in GW2 since the start.

> A proper place to review collected Lore. It's so sad that a game that wants to be so great and so PvE-centric missed on something as omnipresent as a Bestiary or a Lore-book.

> But then again the game turned more to please people looking for instant gratification instead of the traditional RPG fans that look for lore and a story.

 

 

except..we have a bunch of achievements which give us lore books, and honestly, having to click through a bunch of stuff to obtain the weapon for the spec would be a further annoyance. i dont mind the collections, but adding a story to it..unless it was all story and no collecting, which wouldnt be anets style, see the Legendary collections. I dislike their "mix" of story/collecting achievements, outside the lore books. Now, i wouldnt mind more weapons "quests" like the ones they just added, however i cant really remember *anything* about the story a week after doing them, shame they didnt do something like a "weapon rack" that had thsoe skins on it in the home instance that would tell the stories, but its a start and maybe it was a test for things they are going to do in the future.

[Sartorius.3716]

You make your own story of your elite spec.

You master your elite while you travel through the desert and learn its secrets. They could add a video (that you can skip), but it's not really necessary and it's not what gw2 promised us years ago.

[YoukiNeko.6047]

> @"ReaverKane.7598" said:

> > @"Dante.1763" said:

> > I really dont want to spend a bunch of time "finding" or "learning" the elite spec. I want to play with it right from the start so i can learn and play and tinker with my builds.

> That's why i suggested putting in the weapons collections.

>

> > @"Eloc Freidon.5692" said:

> > A lot of the "stories" are integrated in the spec weapon collections.

> Where? There's nothing to it that can even be constituted remotely as a "story".

> HoT Weapons constitute of the following:

> The Exotic weapon that you get for unlocking a specialization and unlocks the Ascended one.

> 3 drops from a few specific enemies.

> A mystic weapon

> A "Inscription" of the class that's purchased for Crystaline Ore

> A thing you get from stealth-gliding with the profession

> An item you buy from Itzel

> A Sharpening stone

> a mushroom from killing invisible mushrooms

> the armor piece from completing the specialization

> An item you get from completing a map

> A weapon you get for completing a second collection

>

> The only story this tells is of a player being asked to pretty much repeat all the HoT content over and over every time you want one of those weapons, plus a few unrelated to anything RNG items.

>

> In POF it's pretty much the same thing... Get random drops, buy stuff from heart vendors, spend a mystic coin in the wishing well, do bounties, do a race, get a few very rare weapons, get a caffinated skritt, get the other specialization items, complete a map...

>

> Compare this to the half a dozen achievements that you do for the Winning weapons, and there's simply no contest when comparing them. There's more story in a single piece of dialogue with those ghosts than the whole entirety of specialization collections.

>

> > @"Halan.8951" said:

> > > @"ReaverKane.7598" said:

> > > I agree with OP and i believe it's kinda sad that they missed out on the oportunity to introduce us to the lore behind the classes and elites a bit better.

> > > And it could have been done without any obstacles:

> > > The whole process could be just like it is now, with the exception of the ascended weapon.

> > > Instead of a generic bunch of achievements and chores, they could have set it up like the "Winner weapons" or like the first part of the original precursor crafting quests.

> > > They could have had us find out the origins of the elite spec, and it's lore in order to create the "ultimate weapon" for that class.

> > Artifact weapons in WoW-Legion had just that. Different quest to obtain them (each class specialization had one), **and readable lore after researching its history**.

> >

> That's another thing that's glaringly missing in GW2 since the start.

> A proper place to review collected Lore. It's so sad that a game that wants to be so great and so PvE-centric missed on something as omnipresent as a Bestiary or a Lore-book.

> But then again the game turned more to please people looking for instant gratification instead of the traditional RPG fans that look for lore and a story.

 

With all the daily events, festival grind, tons of currencies the game looks more like a mobile game than a proper MMORPG.

I wonder what happened to the manifesto https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/guild-wars-2-design-manifesto/ ?

[ProtoGunner.4953]

It makes me sad to read this thread. I remember when people used to enjoy the journey to learn something new. After PoF released a lot of people were complaining that it takes too long (like 7-10 hours) to max out the new elite spec and for many it was too long. What is going on? Ever played Final Fantasy? I mean the old games. It took ages to level your character and _this_ was the journey (apart form the story) and every level up felt rewarding. Now the casual crowd has embraced gaming and all franchises and games become just a casual fest where many aren't even willing to invest a fucking couple of hours to learn the new spec.

 

I oppose this development and they should add a damn questline which takes at least 10 hours to max your new spec. I would love that.

[Danikat.8537]

> @"Sartorius.3716" said:

> You make your own story of your elite spec.

> You master your elite while you travel through the desert and learn its secrets. They could add a video (that you can skip), but it's not really necessary and it's not what gw2 promised us years ago.

 

This too. There's absolutely nothing stopping you from making up your own story about how your character came to know these skills, either using stuff in the game or completely original.

 

Which for me would be more like older MMOs. I don't remember anything in Ultima Online telling me why my characters main skill was animal taming, or that the ultimate goal of that was to tame dragons to lead into battle. But for me that's what the game was all about for a long time, and I even wrote my own 'quest log' to keep track of my progress and future goals. (One thing I really wish more games would use - books you could write in - UO did it and Neverwinter Nights had a tab in your journal to write in, and it's something I miss in every other game, Word docs are not quite the same.)

 

As I said earlier you can do the same in PoF if you want to by finding the NPC in Amnoon who gives a brief introduction to each and then following the clues to the specialisation NPCs, or if you prefer you can let your character discover it themselves as they're travelling through the desert. Just because there isn't something in the UI telling you that you have to do it that way doesn't mean you can't. A lot of GW2 is like that, the stories are there if you want them but you have to make the effort to look for them instead of waiting for the game to force you through it.

[YoukiNeko.6047]

> @"Danikat.8537" said:

> > @"Sartorius.3716" said:

> > You make your own story of your elite spec.

> > You master your elite while you travel through the desert and learn its secrets. They could add a video (that you can skip), but it's not really necessary and it's not what gw2 promised us years ago.

>

> This too. There's absolutely nothing stopping you from making up your own story about how your character came to know these skills, either using stuff in the game or completely original.

>

> Which for me would be more like older MMOs. I don't remember anything in Ultima Online telling me why my characters main skill was animal taming, or that the ultimate goal of that was to tame dragons to lead into battle. But for me that's what the game was all about for a long time, and I even wrote my own 'quest log' to keep track of my progress and future goals. (One thing I really wish more games would use - books you could write in - UO did it and Neverwinter Nights had a tab in your journal to write in, and it's something I miss in every other game, Word docs are not quite the same.)

>

> As I said earlier you can do the same in PoF if you want to by finding the NPC in Amnoon who gives a brief introduction to each and then following the clues to the specialisation NPCs, or if you prefer you can let your character discover it themselves as they're travelling through the desert. Just because there isn't something in the UI telling you that you have to do it that way doesn't mean you can't. A lot of GW2 is like that, the stories are there if you want them but you have to make the effort to look for them instead of waiting for the game to force you through it.

 

UO is amazing sandbox.

Got killed by a PK near the Trinsic moongate and guard players decided to hunt all the PKs in the area to stop them from killing "noobies".

I lost my stuff again, and again, and again but it was always fun. (Like getting killed by a dragon while trying to escape a PK in a cave. :) )

 

I've been playing GW2 since start and the most memorable thing is killing Kholer (in the second or third open beta), on lvl 34-35 engi,

by kitting him near the rubble with turrets. (it took me like 2 hours)

[Drecien.4508]

I login when the expac drops, blow through some proofs of whatever to pop the new eskil and have to grind out a collection for a weapon. On 9 toons? Ugh. No just no more story anything unlock.