My day in WvW. Is it just me or is it always like that?

[Chaba.5410]

> @"lokh.2695" said:

> Also I don't get why a big chunk of the community seems to be fixated on killing enemy players. Why chose fighting the blob that handed it to you twice already over going another direction and caping something. There might be a concept behind it that I don't get, again coming from EotM, where neither defending objectives nor hunting blobs really matters, my opinion might not mean much.

 

There's multiple reasons for it. One example is if a group is leading pugs, often pugs don't like to stay around for a so-called long siege, especially if they went to go try to cap something because they were not winning fights. There might be a big group doing it at first but if the enemy has defenders show up and the attackers get wiped, pugs start doing something else and so the attacking group gets smaller. Another reason is just the consideration some people give to "PPT" playstyle where they don't see a point to it. In the end it comes down to what the different groups playing different ways define as success.

[iKeostuKen.2738]

Pretty good reason why I dont bother with comms. That or hearing a middle aged person constantly repeating commands.

[XenesisII.1540]

Next they'll be checking drivers licenses to get access to discord.

 

[Gogadantes.6817]

@"lokh.2695" : Ha, so I see you were also in that ill-fated WvW "squad". Me and my wife were there as well and we grew frustrated especially since she was just in it for the Siege Commander Spoon and I was just in it to help her get it. I was one of the couple of people who kept asking "which TS/Discord?" in response to the ineffectual "join TS/discord" requests

[Dreamy Lu.3865]

There are different ways to play WvW. Unfortunately, as is now, it is difficult to identify what squad is doing what type of activity and it leads - often - to have squad being a mix of players with different objectives. That's of course a big risk for disappointment, frustration and even conflict.

 

What comes at the top of that is that depending on the commander, the level of information in the squad message can vary a lot, between good and nothing. If a squad expect players to join on TS/Discord, the link should be given in the squad message so all players can see it. But it is not always the case. And after that, while running and fighting, it is of course difficult to care about providing a link.

 

Anyhow, no need to start a debate again. I believe that for now, WvW relies a lot on commander's ability to provide useful information in the squad message. Mininmum should be: Main objective (fight against real opponents or havoc, or ktrain, or whatever) and required links. With that, players joining can:

- See if the squad type does match what they want to do, to decide if they stay or leave for another one.

- Organise to come on TS/Discord easily.

[Etheri.5406]

> @"lokh.2695" said:

> > @"reddie.5861" said:

> > > @"lokh.2695" said:

> > > Hi there,

> > > today I decided to do some WvW. I wanted to progress a bit on my GoB, well the 4 I need at this point. I usually go for EotM, start or join a karma train and get done with it. For a change, I thought I'd give the real WvW a shot, hbl and eb had queues, so I thought it might be good day.

> > >

> > > Joined a com, spent the next hour rushing to fight a blob double our size, getting obliterated, regrouping then rushing the same fight again. Then the com left, no one took over, the group dispersed. I switched to hbl. Another comander. I follow the squad, ask for an invite. I get told to join on discord. "K, what discord?" - "Join discord for invite" - "What's the adress?" - "Join discord" Finally one of the other group members managed to post the link. I go there, get asked to verify my identity. I'm ok with server secrecy and want to join the channel, as I want to be a good zergling, you know.

> > >

> > > I create an API key needed for verification, head over to discord to get virified. I'm asked to join a different discord to get verification for the discord the com is actually using...wait, there's news! The com switched to a ts server in the meantime. "Join ts for invite." - "K, what ts?" - "join ts" - "can someone give the adres please?" - "join ts". Again someone posts the adress. I head over to the ts server. Can't join the channel because missing permissions. I ask for permissions in /d, no one cares. Others ask as the lobby fills up.

> > >

> > > I still follow the commander around, we bash our head against a blob doubleour size. No strats, no alternatives, just respawning, rushing to the fight, getting instakilled(wearing minstrels gear and stuff), rinse and repeat. The commander gets frustrated but doesn't seem to change his/her approach to the situation at hand. I've been moved to a verification waiting area in ts in the meanwhile. The squad gets spawncamped for another ten minutes, then the comander leaves "no ppl here, this is pointless." I'm still alone in the waiting area, no further instrucions given, no one to verify me or tell me how to. I leave the ts.

> > >

> > > At the time of writing, I'm waiting for my q to eb to pop up. Maybe things will get better, but is it me or is this the WvW experience you regularily get? As I said, I've been doing my GoBs in the edge of the mists for the last years now, is this WvW?

> >

> > a person like you, should either do Havoc or roam.

> > i mean sounds like ur not enjoying following the commander but somewhere u do enjoy smashing ur enemy around.

> > Havoc is by far most fun if u got some decent people around.

> > roaming is okay whole server hates u for being solo kitten but when a camp needs to be flipped the whole server is crying at you for not doing it, and if u do happen to do it no1 cares just some roamers doing it.

> >

> > for me whole WvW has split community roamers dont give a rats kitten about blob people

> > havoc squads dont really give a kitten about either 1 but are like buddies from both. as they do flip small objectives and can assist a commander with some extra dps or w/e

> > and u have em blob players who are often very clueless what to do if no commander is online.

>

> Running in a small private group and flipping smaller objects was fun back in the days, for the two or three times we managed to get it organized. For WvW, my guild is hardly suitable, we're spread across 6 servers and no one has a primary interest in WvW. And I haven't gotten around, or saw the necessity to seek out for a guild that does these things so far. Maybe when alliances remake the world(s) of WvW I'll look into the matter agian and find a team like that.

> I like the zerg/blob fights, but they used to be better after HoT and before PoF it seems. Also I don't get why a big chunk of the community seems to be fixated on killing enemy players. Why chose fighting the blob that handed it to you twice already over going another direction and caping something. There might be a concept behind it that I don't get, again coming from EotM, where neither defending objectives nor hunting blobs really matters, my opinion might not mean much.

 

Why would I go cap something on the other side of the map? It gives rewards to PvE players - but nobody plays WvW for the rewards except pve players. It's not fun. It doesn't make a difference for PPT. I'd rather have my group improve in fights we lose than ktrain the other side of the map. I'd rather log off as a comm and let my group disband than ktrain the other side of the map. 9/10 times if you lose fights it's because the majority of your players refuse to organise. With a queue on the map you don't have less players - you just have many players afk, leeching or expecting to get carried.

 

If you AFK in any queues or spawn, please go OS. Nobody appreciates PvE players sitting afk while doing other stuff.

 

You need to keep in mind, from the perspective of a fight commander there is NOTHING wrong with losing fights a few times especially on queue'd maps. There will be many players who think exactly as you do. "This commander repeats the same process expecting a change". Then again, they're also not on discord to even listen to our instructions on what to do different... 9/10 times, it's them not doing their job repeatedly expecting to get bags. You yourself suggest it's better to avoid the group and do something else that gives rewards but that's not my goal. My goal is to improve and improve the players I play with.

 

On most servers, if you wipe a bunch of times the first thing that happens is half the reward-hungry players going to AFK a while. They decide it's a good moment to make dinner, go to the toilet, have a smoke, ... They decide they don't feel like playing that much. A while after many of them leave the map. This is your goal. You play with the playres who want to play coordinated and that play for the gameplay. Those are the players you interact with on a daily basis and they stick around if you win or lose.

 

Anyone who doesn't come discord or TS and isn't coordinating with you is unlikely to change their playstyle or improve in between fights. Most often they'll sit in the back scared as you've been losing - yet that only makes them apply LESS pressure and thus the group only becomes more likely to wipe as whole. If it looks hopeless, 9/10 times almost all reward-hungry players will leave. That's perfect, because frankly these are usually your worst players. As long as you have a queue, there's no disadvantage in cycling bad / fairweather players out to other maps. It usually makes your blob stronger but smaller. It's only when fights are very very uneven that you should halt and try to preserve morale.

 

If I want to fight, and I start going to the other side of the map to play avoidant ktrain the opposite happens. The good players realise I've given up on the fights and am avoiding the enemy group. They leave. By them leaving all hope really is lost, and you're stuck to avoiding and ktraining for a longer time.

[Deniara Devious.3948]

Since the OP is playing on SFR, he must be facing Desolation + Gunnar's Hold every week on EU tier 1. SFR + Aurora Glade is definitely a very high population combination, capable of mustering more than 1 big zone blob in prime time. The lack of good commanders is an issue, which is affecting most servers. You can either just live with it, try to command yourself if you have nerves and time for it or consider changing server, but generally band wagoning is not a good idea. Bandwagoning has already killed so many servers in EU that it is not funny.

 

You cannot trust your minstrel gear to keep you alive. The first few 1-2 AoE will not kill you, so minstrel gear gives you more time to react, but if you stand in those circles you will die. Damage is sky high after PoF was introduced, especially when many of your enemies are using zerker gear and use unblockables, so you cannot even rely on your blocks.

 

Generally I think you should be in a good situation. SFR+AG has the highest KDR in the past few match ups, thanks to GH having a certain guild, which plays a lot and dies a lot. Like Ri Ba commented above, after the next relink situation might be completely different. Let's see!

 

Ayna / Deniara from Desolation

 

 

[kash.9213]

I only join voice comms once in awhile but I also try to not mess around where it looks like a squad is trying to move on their own so I don't mess with their stealth or whatever. There's usually some open tag who gets some momentum and if there's not, just run around trying to be useful while you hit nodes and stuff.

[Tehologist.5841]

I will only go through so many hoops. Open discord chat is fine, expecting me to use teamspeak and verify is a bit much, only to have them log off 5 minutes later. I will do that for my guild or if it is a regular group.

[Zephyra.4709]

The amount of times commanders wanting pugs to "join TS/discord" yet leave the squad message feature blank and then babyraging in chat about pugs "not being in TS" is deranged beyond words. It's like walking into a Ripley's Believe it or not museum.

 

Communication is key.

[Sovereign.1093]

hehe when we used to run open raids, i did that. however, players didnt or dont known they can read the squad msg.

 

=3

[Arlette.9684]

@OP and not sure if mentioned before as I cba to read all the previous comments.

 

Just reading you post tells me you take the game mode too serious. This ain’t WoW, there ain’t no God damn DKP system in here. Comms are cool and all but they can be really distracting for new players. Take the game mode one camp at a time.

[shiri.4257]

> @"iKeostuKen.2738" said:

> Pretty good reason why I dont bother with comms. That or hearing a middle aged person constantly repeating commands.

 

Pretty much why i don't bother with bad pugs. Got tired of hearing a middle aged person constantly crying about their perma downed state.

[reddie.5861]

> @"lokh.2695" said:

> > @"reddie.5861" said:

> > > @"lokh.2695" said:

> > > Hi there,

> > > today I decided to do some WvW. I wanted to progress a bit on my GoB, well the 4 I need at this point. I usually go for EotM, start or join a karma train and get done with it. For a change, I thought I'd give the real WvW a shot, hbl and eb had queues, so I thought it might be good day.

> > >

> > > Joined a com, spent the next hour rushing to fight a blob double our size, getting obliterated, regrouping then rushing the same fight again. Then the com left, no one took over, the group dispersed. I switched to hbl. Another comander. I follow the squad, ask for an invite. I get told to join on discord. "K, what discord?" - "Join discord for invite" - "What's the adress?" - "Join discord" Finally one of the other group members managed to post the link. I go there, get asked to verify my identity. I'm ok with server secrecy and want to join the channel, as I want to be a good zergling, you know.

> > >

> > > I create an API key needed for verification, head over to discord to get virified. I'm asked to join a different discord to get verification for the discord the com is actually using...wait, there's news! The com switched to a ts server in the meantime. "Join ts for invite." - "K, what ts?" - "join ts" - "can someone give the adres please?" - "join ts". Again someone posts the adress. I head over to the ts server. Can't join the channel because missing permissions. I ask for permissions in /d, no one cares. Others ask as the lobby fills up.

> > >

> > > I still follow the commander around, we bash our head against a blob doubleour size. No strats, no alternatives, just respawning, rushing to the fight, getting instakilled(wearing minstrels gear and stuff), rinse and repeat. The commander gets frustrated but doesn't seem to change his/her approach to the situation at hand. I've been moved to a verification waiting area in ts in the meanwhile. The squad gets spawncamped for another ten minutes, then the comander leaves "no ppl here, this is pointless." I'm still alone in the waiting area, no further instrucions given, no one to verify me or tell me how to. I leave the ts.

> > >

> > > At the time of writing, I'm waiting for my q to eb to pop up. Maybe things will get better, but is it me or is this the WvW experience you regularily get? As I said, I've been doing my GoBs in the edge of the mists for the last years now, is this WvW?

> >

> > a person like you, should either do Havoc or roam.

> > i mean sounds like ur not enjoying following the commander but somewhere u do enjoy smashing ur enemy around.

> > Havoc is by far most fun if u got some decent people around.

> > roaming is okay whole server hates u for being solo kitten but when a camp needs to be flipped the whole server is crying at you for not doing it, and if u do happen to do it no1 cares just some roamers doing it.

> >

> > for me whole WvW has split community roamers dont give a rats kitten about blob people

> > havoc squads dont really give a kitten about either 1 but are like buddies from both. as they do flip small objectives and can assist a commander with some extra dps or w/e

> > and u have em blob players who are often very clueless what to do if no commander is online.

>

> Running in a small private group and flipping smaller objects was fun back in the days, for the two or three times we managed to get it organized. For WvW, my guild is hardly suitable, we're spread across 6 servers and no one has a primary interest in WvW. And I haven't gotten around, or saw the necessity to seek out for a guild that does these things so far. Maybe when alliances remake the world(s) of WvW I'll look into the matter agian and find a team like that.

> I like the zerg/blob fights, but they used to be better after HoT and before PoF it seems. Also I don't get why a big chunk of the community seems to be fixated on killing enemy players. Why chose fighting the blob that handed it to you twice already over going another direction and caping something. There might be a concept behind it that I don't get, again coming from EotM, where neither defending objectives nor hunting blobs really matters, my opinion might not mean much.

 

u dont flip stuff man lol..

u just go around u hit a t3 tower or keep and keep smashing all randoms around it till they group up and get bigger till point u cant handle anymore and u redo it.

why people in WvW always wanna flip stuff.

 

if u are into ktrain flipping stuff

go non international server.

germans/spain/french they like to flip stuff and if possible run away from any possible enemy blob :D

[Bigpapasmurf.5623]

Imo great comms are all in the past. Now you have those that want to prove themselves by doing exactly what you said...there is a saying..."The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result"

 

While decent ones still do exist, as time goes, they are getting fewer and fewer. You typically either get one who wants to defy all odds (and 99% fail) or who runs from fights that seem equal or that they outnumber.

 

I used to be a comm with a decent size following back on my CD days years ago. It saddens me to see what most comms are like now a days. This is why I solo/duo roam as well as go small scale. Its rare I join a squad and if the off chance I do, its typically because they did something that shows me they know at least somewhat they are doing.

 

Man I miss the old WvW days.

[MauChann.3081]

> @"lokh.2695" said:

> Hi there,

> today I decided to do some WvW. I wanted to progress a bit on my GoB, well the 4 I need at this point. I usually go for EotM, start or join a karma train and get done with it. For a change, I thought I'd give the real WvW a shot, hbl and eb had queues, so I thought it might be good day.

>

> Joined a com, spent the next hour rushing to fight a blob double our size, getting obliterated, regrouping then rushing the same fight again. Then the com left, no one took over, the group dispersed. I switched to hbl. Another comander. I follow the squad, ask for an invite. I get told to join on discord. "K, what discord?" - "Join discord for invite" - "What's the adress?" - "Join discord" Finally one of the other group members managed to post the link. I go there, get asked to verify my identity. I'm ok with server secrecy and want to join the channel, as I want to be a good zergling, you know.

>

> I create an API key needed for verification, head over to discord to get virified. I'm asked to join a different discord to get verification for the discord the com is actually using...wait, there's news! The com switched to a ts server in the meantime. "Join ts for invite." - "K, what ts?" - "join ts" - "can someone give the adres please?" - "join ts". Again someone posts the adress. I head over to the ts server. Can't join the channel because missing permissions. I ask for permissions in /d, no one cares. Others ask as the lobby fills up.

>

> I still follow the commander around, we bash our head against a blob doubleour size. No strats, no alternatives, just respawning, rushing to the fight, getting instakilled(wearing minstrels gear and stuff), rinse and repeat. The commander gets frustrated but doesn't seem to change his/her approach to the situation at hand. I've been moved to a verification waiting area in ts in the meanwhile. The squad gets spawncamped for another ten minutes, then the comander leaves "no ppl here, this is pointless." I'm still alone in the waiting area, no further instrucions given, no one to verify me or tell me how to. I leave the ts.

>

> At the time of writing, I'm waiting for my q to eb to pop up. Maybe things will get better, but is it me or is this the WvW experience you regularily get? As I said, I've been doing my GoBs in the edge of the mists for the last years now, is this WvW?

 

Yeah no this is 100% my WvW experience too. Because EB and the other borderlands usually has queues, or guild raids which we're not allowed to join for GoB, or a commander who generalizes casuals by calling them leechers and not actually accepting the casuals who want to improve, listen, and contribute to the squad at that moment.

I hope for when the alliance system comes in that there will be guilds for GoB gathering so they can all just plunge in 1 server and karmatrain their own way in WvW.

( Though I think a lot of WvW players will disagree with me on this as it's kinda like PvE goes WvW, I can understand your anger but from my perspective this would be helpful to a lot of players )

 

I only recently found out that WvW players still use TS because the connection is better or whatever? And only in Deso I've noticed that commanders immediately give the adress instead of having to ask around for it.

I play on Piken and I have NEVER seen a squad use discord. Otherwise I'd be glad to join that for voice communication, and contribute in the squad like that. I know commanders often don't have time to tell their squad ingame what the plan of action is, but I don't get how people still defend this? There's enough squad members in the same guild as the commander, or friends of the commander who can describe how the playstyle's gonna be for the day. Squad message is also a tool you can use to describe what the squad has to do.

 

Some squad members I've seen around recently are actually quite accepting to casuals hopping on to WvW, for example a few weeks ago I learned that mini's are a no-go in WvW because they don't stealth when you do, so enemies can track you. In my 5,5 years of playing no one ever told me that. Or they give food reminders.

Feel like a lot of casuals are underappreciated, some of us want to try, if a commander tells me to go off scourge because there's too many and pick firebrand? I will pick firebrand. If a commander tells me that there's a discord group I can join? I will join. I see no food or banners in the keep for some extra boosts? I put it there, ( yes mango pies, i paid attention, no idea if there's any other food you guys use these days, feel free to tell me)

 

tldr; Give casuals a chance, not all of us want to leech.