dream torch rework

[Stand The Wall.6987]

.#4

cd 15 to 10

2nd attack (torch toss) 3/4 cast time to 1/2

.#5

cast time 3.25 to 1.5

10 hits 9 pulses (condi clear) to 6 hits+pulses

 

what do you think, is it as simple as that? I know the targeting is terrible cuz it fails on terrain/ anything moving, but that's a more energy consuming fix.

 

[Mikau.6920]

For me the only real problem is the .#5 skill. It is actually a DPS loss and the condi removal is not really useful. They could at least change to apply burning on last hit something like Engineer .#1 Flamethrower ([Flame Jet](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Flame_Jet "Flame Jet")) I don't even mind to lose cond clear to make torch 5 finally viable.

[Yannir.4132]

> @"Stand The Wall.6987" said:

> .#4

> cd 15 to 10

> 2nd attack (torch toss) 3/4 cast time to 1/2

> .#5

> cast time 3.25 to 1.5

> 10 hits 9 pulses (condi clear) to 6 hits+pulses

>

> what do you think, is it as simple as that? I know the targeting is terrible cuz it fails on terrain/ anything moving, but that's a more energy consuming fix.

>

 

I kinda like the torch 4 change. A bit more DPS would be fine. I don't think it's needed though.

Torch 5 though, I think the condi clear should apply for the guardian himself as well. And maybe it should be a 180 range PBAoE.

[kasoki.5180]

Yeah, torch #5 feels off because considering damage it does its channeling time is to long. Basically it either needs to have reduced casting time or increased damage. Condi cleanse on it is "meh" in my opinion and could be reworked.

Idea to add burning instead of condi cleans seems nice, and would definitely contribute to better profiling among guards off-hand weapons

[Yannir.4132]

> @"Yannir.4132" said:

> Torch 5 though, I think the condi clear should apply for the guardian himself as well. And maybe it should be a 180 range PBAoE.

 

To clarify, I wouldn't want this to be channeled. A regular cast, then the AoE would pulse 5 times over 4 or 5 seconds, removing a condi and dealing moderate damage, like currently, each pulse. You could continue with other skills while it pulses.

[starlinvf.1358]

So I have a question...... why does it always have to be more DPS, and not just work in more utility?

[Stand The Wall.6987]

> @"starlinvf.1358" said:

> So I have a question...... why does it always have to be more DPS, and not just work in more utility?

 

Well, it doesn't. That's just what the weapon is geared towards so I went along those lines. Why, you got some ideas towards utility/ support?

[starlinvf.1358]

> @"Stand The Wall.6987" said:

> > @"starlinvf.1358" said:

> > So I have a question...... why does it always have to be more DPS, and not just work in more utility?

>

> Well, it doesn't. That's just what the weapon is geared towards so I went along those lines. Why, you got some ideas towards utility/ support?

 

Its hard to say because the only thing people value in the current meta is extra sources of unmitigated DPS. Plus the torch already has crazy strong condi clear, and triggers the crap out of Justice.

[LetoII.3782]

Torch 5 is I believe 7 hits? Same as sword 3.

And the cleanse for allies is ok . But why not for me? I need a buddy to about-face and torch 5 me back?

[TheAgedGnome.7520]

Torch seems ok to me as-is. If you're running a power-only build, then torch probably feels meh. But with condi/burn duration and some condi stats, its quite good.

 

Torch4 is flexible: good melee damage or can be used ranged. Radiant Fire trait is quite effective.

Torch5 affects multiple (3) targets, so any DPS increase has to consider that it could multiply by 3.

 

I'd say adding condi cleanse to self on Torch5 is as much as I'd change.

[Kam.4092]

With the recent change to Focus, it makes the Focus our best Power weapon. I think they need to make a similar change for Torch. The Focus has great skills, and the Torch just has 1 good skill.

 

I think the 4 skill is great, and needs no change. Lowering the CD would be a bad idea. It's 12 seconds when traited, and 15 without. If it was changed to 10 seconds like your suggestion, then it would be 8 seconds traited. This would greatly mess up our rotation. The CD on Radiant fire is 10 seconds. With the Torch 4 being on a 12 second CD when traited. These two things work great together. It allows for you to be able to spam Zealot's Fire twice in a row always. If you lower the CD to 8 seconds like you want, then it would do nothing other than make the gap shorter for procs. You'd only have 1 second then to use Zealot's Fire than twice.

 

Remember to read related Traits and procs always before suggesting CD reductions.

 

The 5 skill has annoyed me forever. It has a great animation, but is useless. Torch is a DPS weapon, not support. The 5 skill is Power oriented, when 4 is Condition. It makes no sense. I'd suggest reworking it to something like this.

 

New skill.

 

Zealot's Judgement - Breathe a burst of fire dealing 2 stacks of burning, and stunning up to three foes for 2 seconds. 2/4 second cast, and no pulses. Range 400. Cooldown 25 seconds, and 20 seconds when traited.

 

This would do a small amount of damage while also adding badly needed CC to Condition Firebrand. The increased CD is to balance a skill with Damage and a Stun. Also the 2 stacks of burning would look low to most, but remember Torch 4 does a lot of Burning already. So it would be a small bit of damage with needed CC.

 

This would be my dream Torch rework.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Mizu.4508]

Torch is an unusual weapon. Its like a hybrid condi/power, with some room for support via Torch #5. The way I would change Torch is to drop it off the cliff for power classes and turn it into a condi weapon. We already have focus for power, so I think it would make sense that Torch would be the condi offhand for Guardians.

 

Torch #4: You no longer set yourself on fire. In fact, cut out the first half of the skill. It is now Zealot's Fire. Throw a fireball at your target, burn them for 5 stacks of burning (3 seconds) + any foes within a 240 radius of the target is burned for 3 stacks (2 seconds, capped at 5). This fixes the clunky part of the skill where you have to activate Zealot's Flame twice to throw it. The splash burning from the target replaces the old half of the skill where you light yourself on fire and periodically burn nearby enemies. This means you don't lose the ability of the torch #4 at melee range since you can just throw the fireball in melee range and you would have the same effect as what Zealot's Flame does right now.

 

Torch #5: Cleanse a condition from allies per pulse (cap 5), apply a stack of burning (3 seconds) to enemies per pulse (cap 5). Reduce # pulses from 10 to 6.

 

Radiant Fire (Torch Trait): Gain Zealot's Flame when you critically hit an enemy ---> Re-charge Zealot's Fire when you kill an enemy. (10 second cooldown). Keep the increased burning duration + cooldown on torch skills from the original skill.

[Arcaedus.7290]

OP's suggestions are perfect. I might add:

 

Torch 5 needs to affect self as far as condi cleanses go. It could just involve cleansing a single condi at the beginning and nothing more, but no ability should be useless in a 1v1 like this.

 

Additionally I think torch 4's flipover skill (Zealot's Fire) should be converted to a true arcing projectile rather than this strange sometimes dysfunctional ground-hugger which can be stopped by a hole in the floor/pit (e.g Deepstone Fractal).

[draxynnic.3719]

I'm inclined towards being conservative regarding torch changes.

 

Regarding skill 4: I think the projectile behaviour could definitely stand to be improved, but the overall behaviour of the skill is one I appreciate: you can either use it as a melee area skill or a single-target ranged attack as the situation dictates. Apart from improving the projectile behaviour, if I was to rework it, I'd probably do so by increasing the impact of the final tick of Zealot's Flame, so that there is actually a benefit to letting it tick out rather than it being objectively better to through Zealot's Fire before Zealot's Flame expires.

 

Cleansing Flame has more issues, including the 'often a DPS loss over autoattacking' issue. In principle, I think it's expected to work with Justice passive procs in order to generate the expected burning - but that effect is not as strong as it used to be, and Cleansing Flames's niche of being able to rip through large groups of mobs was killed when the target cap was introduced.

 

I think it would be better to tweak the effects rather than reworking it entirely, however. Some possibilities include:

 

* Increasing the target cap to 5 (in line with similar skills such as the elementalist's Flame Jet and Cone of Cold) to better reward lining up a group.

* Increasing the damage/time ratio, by decreasing the channel time, increasing the damage, and/or introducing inherent Burning into the skill itself (potentially just the final tick, a la Flame Jet, but it doesn't have to be).

* Introducing some self-cleansing, so that the 'cleansing' part of Cleansing Flame can actually be achieved without having to awkwardly line it up over allies.

 

Honestly, doing all three probably wouldn't be out of line.

[Fashion Mage.3712]

I just think Torch #5 could use the staff treatment, make it ground-targeted or something. The cone being 400 range pretty much eliminates any use it has.

[draxynnic.3719]

400 range is fine for a cone, and variety is good - not everything needs to be a ground-targeted AoE.

[MithranArkanere.8957]

It'd like to see something like the Lingering Curse skill replacement on scepter. Switching the torch between melee and ranged focus:

 

* Without trait, it'll work better as a ranged torch.

* Cleansing Flame is changed to a slow projectile with a high arch that leaves a small 5s AoE with a fire field that deals burning to up to 5 enemies and cleanses conditions from up to 5 allies, with a visual similar to the torches Rox throws during the Mystery Cave story mission.

* With Radiant Fire trait it'll focus on melee.

* Gain Zealot's Fire every 10s on critical hits.

* Cleansing Flame is replaced with Purifying Blaze, a short range cleave cone that looks like the current cleansing flame, and works mostly like it but hitting 5 allies or enemies, and with the addition of giving you Zealot's Fire when it ends.

[draxynnic.3719]

That's a much bigger distinction than with Lingering Curse. Lingering Curse doesn't actually change the functionality, it just adds an AoE component.

 

Honestly, Cleansing Flame needs some buffs, but it does NOT need a functionality rework.