New Dagger Storm Is Unfun Power Creep (Please Anet stop doing these arbitrary power creeps)

[Elxdark.9702]

good change! 0 logic but it looks cool!

[babazhook.6805]

The boost to SA noticeable. with Shadows resilince at 33 coupled with DE using the mark , there 33 and 10 damage reduction. Slap on CIS and you considerably tougher stealthed, With that 33 percent you can also forgo CIS, eat the Crits and use RS for boon strip and a nice damage boost. It a pity the Rifle stealth a DJ as if you using this to boon strip it rather easy to avoid but it should perfrom nicely on other sets leveraging the ones with higher stealth access for more rips. If you can get those boons to zero 15 percent add to damage with CS in build might see more damage out then prior. (DE/CS/SA).

 

Scorpion wire ammo add is almost worth it just for the Condition cleanse. Trait up trickster with Daggerstorm and the Withdraw heal with SW and you got decent cleanse on demand. Alternatively Daggerstorm with SOM traited as the heal can be a very reliable health refill.

[samo.1054]

Well if rangers, warriors, mesmers can do damage while being invuln to damage, why couldn't us thiefs have some of the same cancer :) I'm happy.

[MechVampyre.2903]

daggerstorm was perfectly fine before. i'm also not a fan of those long lasting evades on one button click.

remove the evade from daggerstorm, add two more stacks of stability and X seconds of retaliation instead.

[Widmo.3186]

Deals damage? ✓ Evades attacks? ✓ Ranged attacks? ✓ Reflect projectiles? ✓

Looks like ANet instead of nerfing classes like Mirage (✓✓✓✓) start giving the others same ability.If everything is OP then nothing is OP logic.

While I don't care about it in PvE and in PvP i would still take Venom over Dagger Storm,problem lies in WvW.There already existed some troll build with DS,but now I'm truly waiting for the moment when 5+ thieves SS into a zerg and start Dagg Storm then SS away.Also lets dont forget about Scorpion Wire ammunitions,next buff to troll builds (yay).

[MechVampyre.2903]

> @"Widmo.3186" said:

> There already existed some troll build with DS,but now I'm truly waiting for the moment when 5+ thieves SS into a zerg and start Dagg Storm then SS away.

 

when as thief it happens that you join a zerg vs zerg fight it has been a thing since forever to stealth, throw a treb into enemy backline, cast shadowstep on your feet, daggerstorm+steal on warr, move into enemy backline, whirling axes (+another whirling axes) and port out again :3

don't even need 5 thieves. just watch your own hp.

[Warkind.6745]

I've been using dagger storm for about a month now. Went into WvW today before reading the patch notes and the only thing I noticed was the increased CD; nobody interrupted my dagger storm before the patch and nobody has interrupted it today.

 

Because why would you. Nobody cares about the couple of ~2k crits it spits out unless they're completely glass; my gimped auto attack is more painful than that. Its best use has been to counter pew pew classes that assume you're running basilisk venom or to run from enemies, and now that best use has thirty more seconds between its use.

 

I'm fine with either version, but I'm not going to pretend a four second evade pushes dagger storm into OP territory.

[Dahkeus.8243]

Dagger storm before was bad because it had you just doing one thing for a very long duration.

 

If they wanted to fix this skill, they should have shortened the duration, increased the damage, and decreased the cooldown significantly.

 

I mean, this should be something with a duration of 2 seconds max and a cooldown of 15-30 seconds.

[Jack Redline.5379]

> @"Dahkeus.8243" said:

> Dagger storm before was bad because it had you just doing one thing for a very long duration.

>

> If they wanted to fix this skill, they should have shortened the duration, increased the damage, and decreased the cooldown significantly.

>

> I mean, this should be something with a duration of 2 seconds max and a cooldown of 15-30 seconds.

 

it is called dagger STORM storms dont last 2 seconds. The skill is good as it is and we are happy for it

[Hoodie.1045]

> @"Vallun.2071" said:

 

> Please revert this change, or make the daggers flung by dagger storm life steal which will give the extra survivability that you want to give to dagger storm without all the uninteractive uncounterplayability that you gave it with just flat evasion. I want my class to not be broken any more like all of the deadeye changes made in the previous patch.

 

They could've increased the healing on signet of malice instead of giving the thief 4.5 seconds of invulnerability.

[babazhook.6805]

The skill hardly OP. It was not "good as it was before" given hardly any used it as the skill tended to only work against ranged and got you killed against melee. 4 seconds on a 90 second Cooldown means just wait the 4 seconds as people do when Endure pain up on a warrior. Give it time and people will adapt to it and I suspect the usage will drop off again. It will not go to the state it was before as more will use it (in particular NON stealth builds) but there still plenty of reasons to take Smeld , BV and IS.

[SehferViega.8725]

Dagger storm and similar skill need only one change: they REFLECT projectiles and do not BLOCK them. So they must reflect also unblockable projectiles (in order to avoid being oneshotted while using).

Have completely no sense that while I'm using this skill I'm immune to ANY skill.

[Turk.5460]

> @"Hoodie.1045" said:

> > @"Vallun.2071" said:

>

> > Please revert this change, or make the daggers flung by dagger storm life steal which will give the extra survivability that you want to give to dagger storm without all the uninteractive uncounterplayability that you gave it with just flat evasion. I want my class to not be broken any more like all of the deadeye changes made in the previous patch.

>

> They could've increased the healing on signet of malice instead of giving the thief 4.5 seconds of invulnerability.

 

4.25, not invulnerable - still susceptible to conditions already on the Thief.

[Vallun.2071]

just wanted to mention here that it is a 4.5 second evade. not sure if you guys know but that means it is by far the longest evade in the game and even if it is an elite it still is not fun to play around. Watch here as I play my placements on SD thief with dagger storm.

[Vornollo.5182]

Oh kitten..

This is the exact opposite of what should happen... Too many classes got too much sustain while dealing damage, **that should be toned down gamewide**, but instead they add more..?

I don't want Thief to become OP like this...

Very bad change, even the high CD doesn't justify it.

[Tails.9372]

> @"Vornollo.5182" said:

> Oh kitten..

> This is the exact opposite of what should happen... Too many classes got too much sustain while dealing damage, **that should be toned down gamewide**, but instead they add more..?

Adding sustain is not necessarily a bad thing, in fact some skills could use more sustainability.

[Dahkeus.8243]

> @"Jack Redline.5379" said:

> > @"Dahkeus.8243" said:

> > Dagger storm before was bad because it had you just doing one thing for a very long duration.

> >

> > If they wanted to fix this skill, they should have shortened the duration, increased the damage, and decreased the cooldown significantly.

> >

> > I mean, this should be something with a duration of 2 seconds max and a cooldown of 15-30 seconds.

>

> it is called dagger STORM storms dont last 2 seconds. The skill is good as it is and we are happy for it

 

Doesn’t matter what it’s called if it’s a badly designed skill. Also, storms don’t last 4 seconds either, but I don’t see anyone here arguing that it should last hours.

 

Oh, and who is this “we”? You mean you and some unknown number of other people who enjoy getting ahead by sitting in a 4 second evade that does damage? Well good for you, but that’s terrible design for the game as a whole and the rest of the player base.

 

[reddie.5861]

> @"Vallun.2071" said:

> The new Dagger Storm changes read: This skill now grants evade while casting in addition to its other effects. Its cooldown has been increased to 90 seconds. This not only power creeps the skill in a way that isn't interesting, but also makes the skill very uninteractive.

>

> Firstly, dagger storm is a reflecting ability. That means even though projectiles are not effective versus it, unblockable projectiles could still be worth using against a dagger storm. Secondly there was potential to interupt dagger storm through removing the stability or by corrupt. Now there is no reason to use anything against dagger storm because it has evasion, and walls like fear wall ele earth wall which were effective vs evading effects are not even effective here because the stability can't be stripped because of evasion, and theyll just lose a stack or two by passing through these walls. Very uninteractive.

>

> These kinds of power creep are what we DO NOT want when bringing balance to underused skill and utilities. Forcing them into relevancy by making them overpowered rather than respecting their situational usage (I actually was going to put dagger storm as a slot in my pvp sd thief build) is how we got the current form of soul beast and rev 1 shot specs. Please revert this change, or make the daggers flung by dagger storm life steal which will give the extra survivability that you want to give to dagger storm without all the uninteractive uncounterplayability that you gave it with just flat evasion. I want my class to not be broken any more like all of the deadeye changes made in the previous patch.

 

 

skill is useless as fuck and usefull at same time.

in WvW when u roam i would personally not use it

in WvW when u go blob busting it sucks so hard with all projectile hate u basically just evade around but hit nothing u could use it as a escape but a simple port or stealth would be better / faster to get out of sight.

 

for me skill is still crap

[Sir Vincent III.1286]

> @"Vallun.2071" said:

> just wanted to mention here that it is a 4.5 second evade. not sure if you guys know but that means it is by far the longest evade in the game and even if it is an elite it still is not fun to play around. Watch here as I play my placements on SD thief with dagger storm.

 

Your video proved that DS is just fine.

[Vallun.2071]

> @"Sir Vincent III.1286" said:

> > @"Vallun.2071" said:

> > just wanted to mention here that it is a 4.5 second evade. not sure if you guys know but that means it is by far the longest evade in the game and even if it is an elite it still is not fun to play around. Watch here as I play my placements on SD thief with dagger storm.

>

> Your video proved that DS is just fine.

 

I mean I would argue its just as effective as warrior rampage, if anet is fine with that then I guess, but I don't think rampage is fine either.

[Sir Vincent III.1286]

> @"Vallun.2071" said:

> > @"Sir Vincent III.1286" said:

> > > @"Vallun.2071" said:

> > > just wanted to mention here that it is a 4.5 second evade. not sure if you guys know but that means it is by far the longest evade in the game and even if it is an elite it still is not fun to play around. Watch here as I play my placements on SD thief with dagger storm.

> >

> > Your video proved that DS is just fine.

>

> I mean I would argue its just as effective as warrior rampage, if anet is fine with that then I guess, but I don't think rampage is fine either.

 

Judging by the historical changes of Rampage, I'm confident that they are fine with it.

[Jack Redline.5379]

> @"Dahkeus.8243" said:

> > @"Jack Redline.5379" said:

 

 

The ''Damage'' you are so hardly reffering to is exactly 2,8 k on burst it is not dps it is single attack dmg you do on burst and only if you hit the target constanlty for all those 4 seconds. The beeding you deal is negligable at best and cripple doesnt really do anything theese days since everyone has perma stability and condi cleanses on every other skill. Dagger storm is actually the only thing i saw in a long time that brought at least some balance to the PVP. 4 sec evade really isnt taht long. You can get pretty rekt after that. And if lets say you fight someone who has armor or skill that if being hit gives them advantage you will screw up pretty bad smashing DS on them. Lets give example SB shield block skill 5 more you hit them more stacks of might they get.

Also it is not sitting in a 4sec evade usually you use it to help your team as +1 if there are combo fields so you can actuall help them to deal that extra dmg neccesary to overtake the point lets say middle.

ALSO it is not liek other classes dont have skills that make them invuln for several seconds as well. If you dont main thief you are simply complaining cuz you dont like we got something good. IF you do main thief get along with it and dont try to bring nerfs on us. Be smart okay.

AND that We is basically anyone in this forum who answered to you. Majority of the posts say you are wrong + you can add many more ppl who are simply not here. I was having talk with thieves today and they like new DS you can simply go to PVP lobby and ask them urself.

[TwiceDead.1963]

Anybody want to run 10+ thieves and SS+DS into an enemy zerg? Sounds like hilarious fun.

[MithranArkanere.8957]

Dagger Storm turned the thief into a sitting duck against anything but projectiles. With their low health, that was rather bad. So making it Evade was a good choice. But the changes should have not ended there, because now it has both evade and stability. That's too much.

 

Evades can't go through Wards unaffected without stability, but there's very few wards. Basically only guardian, elementalist and necromancer have skills that can't be crossed without stability or invulnerability.

 

The solution to tone down the skill without making it as much of a suicide button as before goes though making more skills ward-like, and removing the stability from dagger storm. This way thieves are no longer sitting ducks so easily while using dagger storm, but dagger storm can still be countered if they try to chase someone through a ward. For example:

 

* Mesmer's Veil could be changed to also prevent enemies from crossing it.

* Ranger Entangle could be changed to also leave behind a wall of vines in from of the ranger. This wall would act as a ward.

* Ranger muddy terrain could act as a ward, knocking down anyone who tries to evade on top of it.

* Warrior Seismic Leap from using Rampage could leave behind a circle of rocks as a ward.

* The hardly ever used Engineer mine could become unevadible.

* Big Ol' Bomb could leave behind a crater as a ward.

 

[Warkind.6745]

> @"Vallun.2071" said:

> just wanted to mention here that it is a 4.5 second evade. not sure if you guys know but that means it is by far the longest evade in the game and even if it is an elite it still is not fun to play around. Watch here as I play my placements on SD thief with dagger storm.

 

You did about a quarter of that necro's health in damage using daggerstorm and said it was overpowered because you took half his health.

I feel like you are trying too hard to push the idea that this skill is overtuned.