Lets talk about Superior Sigil of Bloodlust

[Evil.1580]

I will have to ask everyone to stick to the topic. If you want to discuss something irrelevant find another topic or open one.

This topic is about the problem in my OP about SoB, which I have pointed several times, in the upper comments, that is not working as intended.

 

P.S I am playing shatter mesmer, that is why I am reporting it as a problem. However, this build is not the only one that benefits from this exploit.

[Evil.1580]

> @"TheNecrosanct.4028" said:

> > @"bOTEB.1573" said:

> > > @"TheNecrosanct.4028" said:

> > > > @"bOTEB.1573" said:

> > > >

> > > > It is tied to the sigil, and the sigil is tied to the weapon.

> > > > Again you are starting completely irrelevant topic. How useful SoB will be is a different story. We can as well discuss how useful ele is. Again, this is not the point!

> > >

> > > Then explain to me why the bloodlust buff is listed among other character-wide buffs if it's not supposed to be a character-wide buff.

> >

> > Again irrelevant topic, but how about a source, a link so I can take a look at it.

>

> Your source is ingame. Just use the sigil and see where the stacks are listed. It's among the boost/banner buffs, the boons (alacrity, aegis, might, etc.). Everything that's listed there is character-wide and not bound to gear. Stacks of Bloodlust/Corruption/Perception and whatever other sigils build up stacks are listed among all those character-wide buffs. It's not irrelevant. It's actually quite relevant but you choose to ignore it because it undermines your argument. How about you stop being subjective and ignore obvious proof, and instead look at this objectively.

>

> Also, because you find this stacking system unfair, that doesn't make it an exploit. Again, you do not grasp the meaning of the concept, it seems.

 

Sorry, its not listed here... Stop making up things. We are talking with facts.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Buff

Just because the UI position it there doesn't mean its the same like buffs.

[Oglaf.1074]

Sorry, but I don’t see the issue. If you want to basically handicap one of your weapon sets (as there are plenty faaaar better options, especially in PvP) for this, go for it.

 

Personally I would never do it because the aforementioned self-imposed handicapping.

[Evil.1580]

> @"Oglaf.1074" said:

> Sorry, but I don’t see the issue. If you want to basically handicap one of your weapon sets (as there are plenty faaaar better options, especially in PvP) for this, go for it.

>

> Personally I would never do it because the aforementioned self-imposed handicapping.

 

Handicapping? Open all Scourge, Rangers, Mesmers videos - they are all using this thing. To me, it looks like the best thing ever and not handicapping anything.

The issue is that it is not fair to professions that can't have 2 sigils + 250 power buff on their main damage weapon.

It is working good with the underwater weapons. It should work the same with the rest - you will have to put another SoB in the other weapon set if you want to keep the stacks. It is said in the wiki and it is logical and fair to be like this.

[TheNecrosanct.4028]

> @"bOTEB.1573" said:

> > @"TheNecrosanct.4028" said:

> >

> > Your source is ingame. Just use the sigil and see where the stacks are listed. It's among the boost/banner buffs, the boons (alacrity, aegis, might, etc.). Everything that's listed there is character-wide and not bound to gear. Stacks of Bloodlust/Corruption/Perception and whatever other sigils build up stacks are listed among all those character-wide buffs. It's not irrelevant. It's actually quite relevant but you choose to ignore it because it undermines your argument. How about you stop being subjective and ignore obvious proof, and instead look at this objectively.

> >

> > Also, because you find this stacking system unfair, that doesn't make it an exploit. Again, you do not grasp the meaning of the concept, it seems.

>

> Sorry, its not listed here... Stop making up things. We are talking with facts.

> https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Buff

 

For crying out loud, read what I wrote. I'm not making up anything. Go ingame, use the sigil and look where the icon for the bloodlust stacking is listed. It's among all those other buffs. And it is a buff, since it increases your Power. So actually it's listed right on top of the list on the page you linked, namely increased attributes. This whole idea that it should not be maintained when you switch weapons is just in your head. Just because you think it should be that way, doesn't mean that the current implementation is faulty, or even an exploit. An exploit is something that gives an unfair advantage. Anyone with a SoB will have the same effect applied, so there's no unfair advantage there.

 

The game trumps the wiki in that regard. Also, the wiki is fanmade and can contain errors/be incomplete. Your attempts at steering the argument your way are laughably incompetent.

 

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Effect_stacking

[Obtena.7952]

> @"bOTEB.1573" said:

> Currently, professions which can swap weapons can put the sigil in their secondary weapon set, build the 25 stacks and keep these stacks while playing with their primary weapon/s.

> This makes their primary weapons benefit from 3 sigil effects.

> How is this balanced and fair compared to professions which can't swap weapons, like the ele?

 

It's not, but that doesn't really mean it can't or shouldn't happen. There are lots of 'unfair' things in the game and it's not really a reason to change it; the game isn't an exercise in being the most fair possible.

[Evil.1580]

> @"TheNecrosanct.4028" said:

> > @"bOTEB.1573" said:

> > > @"TheNecrosanct.4028" said:

> > >

> > > Your source is ingame. Just use the sigil and see where the stacks are listed. It's among the boost/banner buffs, the boons (alacrity, aegis, might, etc.). Everything that's listed there is character-wide and not bound to gear. Stacks of Bloodlust/Corruption/Perception and whatever other sigils build up stacks are listed among all those character-wide buffs. It's not irrelevant. It's actually quite relevant but you choose to ignore it because it undermines your argument. How about you stop being subjective and ignore obvious proof, and instead look at this objectively.

> > >

> > > Also, because you find this stacking system unfair, that doesn't make it an exploit. Again, you do not grasp the meaning of the concept, it seems.

> >

> > Sorry, its not listed here... Stop making up things. We are talking with facts.

> > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Buff

>

> For crying out loud, read what I wrote. I'm not making up anything. Go ingame, use the sigil and look where the icon for the bloodlust stacking is listed. It's among all those other buffs. And it is a buff, since it increases your Power. So actually it's listed right on top of the list on the page you linked, namely increased attributes. This whole idea that it should not be maintained when you switch weapons is just in your head. Just because you think it should be that way, doesn't mean that the current implementation is faulty, or even an exploit. An exploit is something that gives an unfair advantage. Anyone with a SoB will have the same effect applied, so there's no unfair advantage there.

>

> The game trumps the wiki in that regard. Also, the wiki is fanmade and can contain errors/be incomplete. Your attempts at steering the argument your way are laughably incompetent.

>

> https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Effect_stacking

 

First - I am not crying but discussing.

Absolutely irrelevant again. Please, tell me, how the position of the icon of this effect justifies its functionality? I have literally copy-pasted how the sigil should work and it is working differently from that. With that said, how is this only in my head? AGAIN, I think that it should be this way not because of my personal opinion but because of the provided info in the official gw2 wiki. Also, please try to edit something in the wiki and see if it will be posted without review and stay there for a long time. I have logically explained to you why it shouldn't be the way and it is ok for you to disagree and give your opinion on how it should be. But you can't disagree to the difference of what the info says and what it actually is. If the info is different from the effect it means that it is not working as intended. Anyone with SoB will have the unfair advantage, yes - thank you for agreeing on this! BUT, what else will the ele have if they put SoB in? One more sigil (only one), not 2 - understand this, thanks!

P.S Namely increased attributes? So my gear gives me increased attributes too. Why isnt it considered a buff? Your logic is flawed.

[Evil.1580]

> @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > @"bOTEB.1573" said:

> > Currently, professions which can swap weapons can put the sigil in their secondary weapon set, build the 25 stacks and keep these stacks while playing with their primary weapon/s.

> > This makes their primary weapons benefit from 3 sigil effects.

> > How is this balanced and fair compared to professions which can't swap weapons, like the ele?

>

> It's not, but that doesn't really mean it can't or shouldn't happen. There are lots of 'unfair' things in the game and it's not really a reason to change it; the game isn't an exercise in being the most fair possible.

 

Thank you for agreeing it is not balanced. And it does mean it shouldn't happen because it is not intended to happen like this.

[Hoon.1524]

But I don't see the proof that it's logically imbalanced, even if the wiki says it. Give me numbers and math and detailed code from Anet.

[TheNecrosanct.4028]

> @"bOTEB.1573" said:

> > @"TheNecrosanct.4028" said:

> >

> > For crying out loud, read what I wrote. I'm not making up anything. Go ingame, use the sigil and look where the icon for the bloodlust stacking is listed. It's among all those other buffs. And it is a buff, since it increases your Power. So actually it's listed right on top of the list on the page you linked, namely increased attributes. This whole idea that it should not be maintained when you switch weapons is just in your head. Just because you think it should be that way, doesn't mean that the current implementation is faulty, or even an exploit. An exploit is something that gives an unfair advantage. Anyone with a SoB will have the same effect applied, so there's no unfair advantage there.

> >

> > The game trumps the wiki in that regard. Also, the wiki is fanmade and can contain errors/be incomplete. Your attempts at steering the argument your way are laughably incompetent.

> >

> > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Effect_stacking

>

> First - I am not crying but discussing.

> Absolutely irrelevant again. Please, tell me, how the position of the icon of this effect justifies its functionality? I have literally copy-pasted how the sigil should work and it is working differently from that. With that said, how is this only in my head? AGAIN, I think that it should be this way not because of my personal opinion but because of the provided info in the official gw2 wiki. Also, please try to edit something in the wiki and see if it will be posted without review and stay there for a long time. I have logically explained to you why it shouldn't be the way and it is ok for you to disagree and give your opinion on how it should be. But you can't disagree to the difference of what the info says and what it actually is. If the info is different from the effect it means that it is not working as intended. Anyone with SoB will have the unfair advantage, yes - thank you for agreeing on this! BUT, what else will the ele have if they put SoB in? One more sigil (only one), not 2 - understand this, thanks!

> P.S Namely increased attributes? So my gear gives me increased attributes too. Why isnt it considered a buff? Your logic is flawed.

 

I see now your comprehensive reading abilities aren't up to par. I never agreed with you on anything. In fact, I did the exact opposite. Yet somehow you got that from my post. For me this discussion is closed. There's nothing to be gained in discussing something with someone who will dodge logical arguments and insist on repeating themselves over and over, purposefully ignoring arguments contrary to your position.

[Evil.1580]

> @"Hoon.1524" said:

> But I don't see the proof that it's logically imbalanced, even if the wiki says it. Give me numbers and math and detailed code from Anet.

 

You don't see proof of what? Some players are getting 250 power from a sigil while using other 2 sigils in that weapon. A zerk gear has a little more than 2600 power which automatically means this is ~9-10% more power to the build from a sigil that isn't even used in the weapon he is attacking you with. These are more than 8 additional stacks of might without duration while having 2 different, fully functional sigils in your weapon. A skilled player with the right build will never lose these stacks but even if he loses them he can gain them super fast again. That is why it is not balanced compared to professions which can't swap weapons. But this is not the only point. It shouldn't work like this ATM and it should be changed so it works as intended.

[Evil.1580]

> @"TheNecrosanct.4028" said:

> > @"bOTEB.1573" said:

> > > @"TheNecrosanct.4028" said:

> > >

> > > For crying out loud, read what I wrote. I'm not making up anything. Go ingame, use the sigil and look where the icon for the bloodlust stacking is listed. It's among all those other buffs. And it is a buff, since it increases your Power. So actually it's listed right on top of the list on the page you linked, namely increased attributes. This whole idea that it should not be maintained when you switch weapons is just in your head. Just because you think it should be that way, doesn't mean that the current implementation is faulty, or even an exploit. An exploit is something that gives an unfair advantage. Anyone with a SoB will have the same effect applied, so there's no unfair advantage there.

> > >

> > > The game trumps the wiki in that regard. Also, the wiki is fanmade and can contain errors/be incomplete. Your attempts at steering the argument your way are laughably incompetent.

> > >

> > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Effect_stacking

> >

> > First - I am not crying but discussing.

> > Absolutely irrelevant again. Please, tell me, how the position of the icon of this effect justifies its functionality? I have literally copy-pasted how the sigil should work and it is working differently from that. With that said, how is this only in my head? AGAIN, I think that it should be this way not because of my personal opinion but because of the provided info in the official gw2 wiki. Also, please try to edit something in the wiki and see if it will be posted without review and stay there for a long time. I have logically explained to you why it shouldn't be the way and it is ok for you to disagree and give your opinion on how it should be. But you can't disagree to the difference of what the info says and what it actually is. If the info is different from the effect it means that it is not working as intended. Anyone with SoB will have the unfair advantage, yes - thank you for agreeing on this! BUT, what else will the ele have if they put SoB in? One more sigil (only one), not 2 - understand this, thanks!

> > P.S Namely increased attributes? So my gear gives me increased attributes too. Why isnt it considered a buff? Your logic is flawed.

>

> I see now your comprehensive reading abilities aren't up to par. I never agreed with you on anything. In fact, I did the exact opposite. Yet somehow you got that from my post. For me this discussion is closed. There's nothing to be gained in discussing something with someone who will dodge logical arguments and insist on repeating themselves over and over, purposefully ignoring arguments contrary to your position.

 

I gave you a super logical and constructive answer. I am not sure what exactly did I dodge? I managed to talk about everything you have asked/told in your previous post, how am I dodging anything? You can leave the topic if you want, thank you for your participation!

[Cyninja.2954]

> @"bOTEB.1573" said:

> > @"Hoon.1524" said:

> > But I don't see the proof that it's logically imbalanced, even if the wiki says it. Give me numbers and math and detailed code from Anet.

>

> You don't see proof of what? Some players are getting 250 power from a sigil while using other 2 sigils in that weapon. A zerk gear has a little more than 2600 power which automatically means this is ~9-10% more power to the build from a sigil that isn't even used in the weapon he is attacking you with. These are more than 8 additional stacks of might without duration while having 2 different, fully functional sigils in your weapon. A skilled player with the right build will never lose these stacks but even if he loses them he can gain them super fast again. That is why it is not balanced compared to professions which can't swap weapons. But this is not the only point. It shouldn't work like this ATM and it should be changed so it works as intended.

 

They are getting potentially 250 power and losing 1 sigil even if that is on the off set.

 

Which part of it's balanced enough don't you get?

 

What about on swap effect sigils which expire after x seconds forcing you to swap weapons? Do those need re-balance too? After all they provide no benefit if camping on 1 weapon set.

 

You have taken a very narrow situation of mostly gimmick or 1 trick pony builds (which aren't even that useful in the grand scheme of things and certainly not for the only game mode this might affect WvW) and are trying to argue imbalance and literally everyone disagrees with you, including Arenanet since they have kept the Sigil in game for nearly 6 years.

 

The stacking Sigils were even buffed specifically for spvp where they provide 5 stacks (instead of initially 1) to encourage the use of this sigil type, yet they are still not getting used.

[Evil.1580]

> @"Cyninja.2954" said:

> > @"bOTEB.1573" said:

> > > @"Hoon.1524" said:

> > > But I don't see the proof that it's logically imbalanced, even if the wiki says it. Give me numbers and math and detailed code from Anet.

> >

> > You don't see proof of what? Some players are getting 250 power from a sigil while using other 2 sigils in that weapon. A zerk gear has a little more than 2600 power which automatically means this is ~9-10% more power to the build from a sigil that isn't even used in the weapon he is attacking you with. These are more than 8 additional stacks of might without duration while having 2 different, fully functional sigils in your weapon. A skilled player with the right build will never lose these stacks but even if he loses them he can gain them super fast again. That is why it is not balanced compared to professions which can't swap weapons. But this is not the only point. It shouldn't work like this ATM and it should be changed so it works as intended.

>

> They are getting potentially 250 power and losing 1 sigil even if that is on the off set.

>

> Which part of it's balanced enough don't you get?

>

> What about on swap effect sigils which expire after x seconds forcing you to swap weapons? Do those need re-balance too? After all they provide no benefit if camping on 1 weapon set.

>

> You have taken a very narrow situation of mostly gimmick or 1 trick pony builds (which aren't even that useful in the grand scheme of things and certainly not for the only game mode this might affect WvW) and are trying to argue imbalance and literally everyone disagrees with you, including Arenanet since they have kept the Sigil in game for nearly 6 years.

>

> The stacking Sigils were even buffed specifically for spvp where they provide 5 stacks (instead of initially 1) to encourage the use of this sigil type, yet they are still not getting used.

 

I can't give an opinion on other sigils at the moment but I giving some on SoB.

Yes, they give up sigil slot to use SoB and they should get its effect. As an upgradeable component which confers additional benefits (such as increased attributes or effects added to attacks) while **wielding** that piece and without being downed or **switching to a weapon set that lacks the sigil**, they should get this effect.

But you are trying to tell me that even if they are not wielding this weapon and even if they are switching to a weapon set that lacks the sigil they should still get its effect?

This is clearly not as intended.

If you don't like how it should work, maybe change the sigil?

[Cyninja.2954]

> @"bOTEB.1573" said:

> > @"Cyninja.2954" said:

> > > @"bOTEB.1573" said:

> > > > @"Hoon.1524" said:

> > > > But I don't see the proof that it's logically imbalanced, even if the wiki says it. Give me numbers and math and detailed code from Anet.

> > >

> > > You don't see proof of what? Some players are getting 250 power from a sigil while using other 2 sigils in that weapon. A zerk gear has a little more than 2600 power which automatically means this is ~9-10% more power to the build from a sigil that isn't even used in the weapon he is attacking you with. These are more than 8 additional stacks of might without duration while having 2 different, fully functional sigils in your weapon. A skilled player with the right build will never lose these stacks but even if he loses them he can gain them super fast again. That is why it is not balanced compared to professions which can't swap weapons. But this is not the only point. It shouldn't work like this ATM and it should be changed so it works as intended.

> >

> > They are getting potentially 250 power and losing 1 sigil even if that is on the off set.

> >

> > Which part of it's balanced enough don't you get?

> >

> > What about on swap effect sigils which expire after x seconds forcing you to swap weapons? Do those need re-balance too? After all they provide no benefit if camping on 1 weapon set.

> >

> > You have taken a very narrow situation of mostly gimmick or 1 trick pony builds (which aren't even that useful in the grand scheme of things and certainly not for the only game mode this might affect WvW) and are trying to argue imbalance and literally everyone disagrees with you, including Arenanet since they have kept the Sigil in game for nearly 6 years.

> >

> > The stacking Sigils were even buffed specifically for spvp where they provide 5 stacks (instead of initially 1) to encourage the use of this sigil type, yet they are still not getting used.

>

> I can't give an opinion on other sigils at the moment but I giving some on SoB.

 

Yet the other Sigils are also balanced and do not require a rework. Some of them even see way more use than SoB.

 

> @"bOTEB.1573" said:

> Yes, they give up sigil slot to use SoB and they should get its effect. As an upgradeable component which confers additional benefits (such as increased attributes or effects added to attacks) while **wielding** that piece and without being downed or **switching to a weapon set that lacks the sigil**, they should get this effect.

 

Yes and you have repeated this over and over and the common answer is: doesn't matter, it's still balanced since the benefit of having potentially 250 stat points is not outweighing to camp 1 set or losing the upgrade slot.

 

> @"bOTEB.1573" said:

> But you are trying to tell me that even if they are not wielding this weapon and even if they are switching to a weapon set that lacks the sigil they should still get its effect?

> This is clearly not as intended.

 

It is working as intended. It was specifically changed to work this way in the past from actually being bugged where people could remove the weapon with the Sigil and keep the bonus stats. This was changed in April 2014, so over 4 years ago (read the discussion of the wiki). If there was a remaining issue, it would have been cleared up by now.

 

> @"bOTEB.1573" said:

> If you don't like how it should work, maybe change the sigil?

 

I'm fine with how the Sigil works. You're the one arguing imbalance and asking for change.

[Evil.1580]

> @"Cyninja.2954" said:

> > @"bOTEB.1573" said:

> > If you don't like how it should work, maybe change the sigil?

>

> I'm fine with how the Sigil works. You're the one arguing imbalance and asking for change.

 

I didn't say "how it works" but how it "should work" (there is a grammatical difference) and it shouldn't work like how it works atm. Also, your opinion on if it is balanced or not is basically yours against mine. The word intended means **planned or meant**. I have pasted you how the sigil is meant to be, yet you are arguing about this, which is useless at this point. I understand your frustration but for the sake of the balance, this should be changed. I am able to agree that the players using it should keep its effect and not lose stacks BUT only when they are using this specific set where the sigil is slotted. In other words, they keep the stacks but not benefit from the power bonus when switching to a weapon which doesn't have the sigil slotted. Otherwise, they are giving up on 1 slot in one of their sets but it is like using a 3rd slot on their other sets.

 

[Cyninja.2954]

> @"bOTEB.1573" said:

> > @"Cyninja.2954" said:

> > > @"bOTEB.1573" said:

> > > If you don't like how it should work, maybe change the sigil?

> >

> > I'm fine with how the Sigil works. You're the one arguing imbalance and asking for change.

>

> I didn't say "how it works" but how it "should work" (there is a grammatical difference) and it shouldn't work like how it works atm. Also, your opinion on if it is balanced or not is basically yours against mine. The word intended means **planned or meant**. I have pasted you how the sigil is meant to be, yet you are arguing about this, which is useless at this point.

 

You have pasted how the wiki (which is player maintained) describes the sigil.

 

I have stated how the history of the sigil has been and what I believe to be the case (that Arenanet are fine with it and by the amount of use it sees, it is not unbalanced).

 

Yes your opinion versus mine or any one else. With a difference that you are advocating for change, I am not.

[Zaraki.5784]

This "problem" (it's not a problem) would also exist on every "on weapon swap" sigil, not just Bloodlast and on every other stacking bonus sigil (precision, healing power, etc).

Either way it's not a problem, if you are on a non-swap profession (engi&ele), you do that knowing that this issue is a fact and it won't change, it has always been so since launch.

[Khisanth.2948]

Meh ... haven't bothered using this in a while.

 

Still got it left over on a few characters but I would not use this on any new setup.

 

In PvE it is only good for open world. sPvP has its own system which leaves just WvW...

 

> @"Zaraki.5784" said:

> This "problem" (it's not a problem) would also exist on every "on weapon swap" sigil, not just Bloodlast and on every other stacking bonus sigil (precision, healing power, etc).

> Either way it's not a problem, if you are on a non-swap profession (engi&ele), you do that knowing that this issue is a fact and it won't change, it has always been so since launch.

 

On swap is not relevant at all because that is triggered by a wide range of stuff including attunement changes on ele and kits on engineer.

[Evil.1580]

> @"Cyninja.2954" said:

> > @"bOTEB.1573" said:

> > > @"Cyninja.2954" said:

> > > > @"bOTEB.1573" said:

> > > > If you don't like how it should work, maybe change the sigil?

> > >

> > > I'm fine with how the Sigil works. You're the one arguing imbalance and asking for change.

> >

> > I didn't say "how it works" but how it "should work" (there is a grammatical difference) and it shouldn't work like how it works atm. Also, your opinion on if it is balanced or not is basically yours against mine. The word intended means **planned or meant**. I have pasted you how the sigil is meant to be, yet you are arguing about this, which is useless at this point.

>

> You have pasted how the wiki (which is player maintained) describes the sigil.

>

> I have stated how the history of the sigil has been and what I believe to be the case (that Arenanet are fine with it and by the amount of use it sees, it is not unbalanced).

>

> Yes your opinion versus mine or any one else. With a difference that you are advocating for change, I am not.

 

So we need a nice dev to post if the wiki is wrong or the sigil is not working as intended so we can correct one of them.

[Ubi.4136]

> @"bOTEB.1573" said:

> > @"Ubi.4136" said:

> > > @"bOTEB.1573" said:

> > > > @"Ubi.4136" said:

> > > > The 250 power from bloodlust is nothing compared to a lot of skills or even the food/utility buffs. Most high end builds are not relying on the bloodlust sigil for damage. A force sigil and air sigil are a lot more reliable power that you never lose when dying. Mirage is still overtuned, like a lot of PoF stuff, but the sigil of bloodlust is NOT the problem. It's not even A problem in wvw.

> > >

> > > Good, then removing this shouldn't be a problem at all for you.

> > > Seems like people aren't using it, so they won't notice if something like that is changed, right?

> >

> > I'm guessing you are ok with removing the corruption sigil too? Or the stars sigil? Any of the +stat sigils?

> > Food and utility buffs can actually make annoying builds totally broken/unbalanced, so all food and utility buffs should be removed from wvw too...right?

> > If your only complaint is you are killing too many people playing mirage, and you think it's your bloodlust sigil that is the problem, you need to reevaluate some things.

>

> Any sigil that benefits a weapon set which it is not in, should be changed so it doesn't buff it

> We are talking about the sigil of 2nd weapon set that benefits the 1st weapon set, not about the food.

 

Ok, so let's use your example. Let's say I am playing staff on my first weapon and longbow on my second. Someone places conditions on me while I have staff equipped. With a sigil of cleansing on my longbow, I could switch and lose a condition that I earned while playing staff. So, that has to go. No reason my second weapon set should be able to affect my play time on my main weapon set. I should have to keep that condition. Or, sigil of energy. I used a bunch of stamina playing my main weapon set, no reason I should be able to get more stamina just because my alternate weapon set didn't earn it. It was lost on my main weapon so that sigil has to go according to you.

 

Ele and eng are more than compensated by the sheer volume of skills and utilities they can field over other classes, that weapon swap bonus is not an issue. They too can use the stat stacking sigils btw. Engineer, for example, can equip a bloodlust sigil, use the grenade kit, and they still earn the bonus for each kill, because it is IN their weapon. No one is being neglected here. Same holds true for ele and weapon summons.

 

And yes, you have to include food and utility items in your complaint. You made such a big deal about +250 to a stat, there are items that grant +200 power just because your health is over 90%. Food/utility buffs are incredibly strong, no reason to have THAT much added to some specs.

 

I'm not sure who you lost to, or what class/build they were playing. But, I can assure you that the sigil of bloodlust is not the reason you died to a build.

[Cyninja.2954]

> @"bOTEB.1573" said:

> > @"Cyninja.2954" said:

> > > @"bOTEB.1573" said:

> > > > @"Cyninja.2954" said:

> > > > > @"bOTEB.1573" said:

> > > > > If you don't like how it should work, maybe change the sigil?

> > > >

> > > > I'm fine with how the Sigil works. You're the one arguing imbalance and asking for change.

> > >

> > > I didn't say "how it works" but how it "should work" (there is a grammatical difference) and it shouldn't work like how it works atm. Also, your opinion on if it is balanced or not is basically yours against mine. The word intended means **planned or meant**. I have pasted you how the sigil is meant to be, yet you are arguing about this, which is useless at this point.

> >

> > You have pasted how the wiki (which is player maintained) describes the sigil.

> >

> > I have stated how the history of the sigil has been and what I believe to be the case (that Arenanet are fine with it and by the amount of use it sees, it is not unbalanced).

> >

> > Yes your opinion versus mine or any one else. With a difference that you are advocating for change, I am not.

>

> So we need a nice dev to post if the wiki is wrong or the sigil is not working as intended so we can correct one of them.

 

 

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Sigil#Stacking_bonus

> Stacking bonus

> Gain up to 25 stacks of an effect that grants an attribute bonus per stack or grants a bonus when you reach the maximum amount of stacks. On-kill sigils gain 5 stacks upon killing an enemy player in all areas of the game. You can only have one attribute stacking bonus at a time, but as many bonus-with-final-stack sigils as feasible. The bonus is lost when you are downed, when you travel to a different zone, or when you unequip the weapon. Unequip includes switching to and from underwater weapons while not having the identical sigil in the weapon sets that you start using (this means player only need 2 same sigils to keep the stack; 1 sigil on any land weapon, the other on any underwater weapon).

 

The corresponding wiki is correct is it not? Yes, the overarching one might need some corrections if you consider a weapon set as only 1 of the weapon swaps. The terminology used in the wiki indicates that the term "weapon set" is used to describe both swapped weapon combinations.

 

Good luck getting a developer response on something this trivial. At best if ever you might see a mention in the patch notes IF the devs ever decide to change anything here.

[Evil.1580]

> @"Cyninja.2954" said:

> > @"bOTEB.1573" said:

> > > @"Cyninja.2954" said:

> > > > @"bOTEB.1573" said:

> > > > > @"Cyninja.2954" said:

> > > > > > @"bOTEB.1573" said:

> > > > > > If you don't like how it should work, maybe change the sigil?

> > > > >

> > > > > I'm fine with how the Sigil works. You're the one arguing imbalance and asking for change.

> > > >

> > > > I didn't say "how it works" but how it "should work" (there is a grammatical difference) and it shouldn't work like how it works atm. Also, your opinion on if it is balanced or not is basically yours against mine. The word intended means **planned or meant**. I have pasted you how the sigil is meant to be, yet you are arguing about this, which is useless at this point.

> > >

> > > You have pasted how the wiki (which is player maintained) describes the sigil.

> > >

> > > I have stated how the history of the sigil has been and what I believe to be the case (that Arenanet are fine with it and by the amount of use it sees, it is not unbalanced).

> > >

> > > Yes your opinion versus mine or any one else. With a difference that you are advocating for change, I am not.

> >

> > So we need a nice dev to post if the wiki is wrong or the sigil is not working as intended so we can correct one of them.

>

>

> https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Sigil#Stacking_bonus

> > Stacking bonus

> > Gain up to 25 stacks of an effect that grants an attribute bonus per stack or grants a bonus when you reach the maximum amount of stacks. On-kill sigils gain 5 stacks upon killing an enemy player in all areas of the game. You can only have one attribute stacking bonus at a time, but as many bonus-with-final-stack sigils as feasible. The bonus is lost when you are downed, when you travel to a different zone, or when you unequip the weapon. Unequip includes switching to and from underwater weapons while not having the identical sigil in the weapon sets that you start using (this means player only need 2 same sigils to keep the stack; 1 sigil on any land weapon, the other on any underwater weapon).

>

> The corresponding wiki is correct is it not? Yes, the overarching one might need some corrections if you consider a weapon set as only 1 of the weapon swaps. The terminology used in the wiki indicates that the term "weapon set" is used to describe both swapped weapon combinations.

>

> Good luck getting a developer response on something this trivial. At best if ever you might see a mention in the patch notes IF the devs ever decide to change anything here.

 

"The bonus is lost when you are downed, when you travel to a different zone, or when you unequip the weapon."

At this point, we don't need anything else. Also, I don't see a reason why a dev can't respond to this.

From the same page:

"A sigil affects all skills while the weapon set with the sigil is active."

This means that the sigil shouldn't affect any skills while the weapon set with the sigil isn't active.

[Kodokuna Akuma.9570]

> @"bOTEB.1573" said:

> Currently, professions which can swap weapons can put the sigil in their secondary weapon set, build the 25 stacks and keep these stacks while playing with their primary weapon/s.

> This makes their primary weapons benefit from 3 sigil effects.

> How is this balanced and fair compared to professions which can't swap weapons, like the ele?

 

Lets put it simply oh so you have only 1 weapon so you dont get the benefit of weapon swapping with bloodlust boo hoo.

Everytime you switch atunement you get the benefit of a weapon swap, so that means a fair deal of sigils proc alot more often on an ele lol. What was the cd for atunement again ? 8 sec and 4 if your a weaver ?. sooo eles can wep swap 4x or 8x more than any other class ?

 

Sounds fair and balanced right ? maybe they should just remove ele ;p

 

[Illconceived Was Na.9781]

ANet clearly thinks that **all** stacking sigils, including Sup Bloodlust are working as intended. We know this because (as mentioned above), ANet has adjusted how stacking sigils work so that (a) you can't remove the weapon with the sigil and (b) you can go underwater and out without losing stacks (as long as you have the sigil on both terrestrial and aquatic weapons). If ANet thought that stacks should drop on weapon swap, they would have made that change years ago. Generally speaking, ANet has always supported risk-vs-reward choices: e.g. go all glass for more damage and risk getting one-shot by high-burst, or so less damage with higher durability.

 

So regardless of how anyone wants to interpret the player-written explanation of the mechanics (i.e. on the wiki), the fact is that if the OP wants this to change, they need to convince ANet that there's an issue. Rhetorically speaking, it's not useful to toss out words like "exploit" or "broken" without explanation. Show examples of 1v1 where 25 bloodlust stacks always beats those without, where GvG guilds recommend Bloodlust for their statics, where MetaBattle or world-specific websites recommend the sigil.

 

In other words, it's not enough to say, "yeah I do really well using this sigil." One just show to ANet that the existing mechanic dominates everything else.

 

Personally, I think it's doubtful that ANet will change their mind. It seems very unlikely that the OP would be the first person to take advantage of such a loophole without any tradeoffs.