Raids for newcomers in a nutshell

[sigur.9453]

> @"gonzi.7605" said:

> The reason why raids was somehow popular in WoW was how easy it was to start raiding. Sure, there were people who would tryhard and goes with raid under 9,9999999999 min. But also many people dont care but that, they want just sit, 5 min and start raiding. And to be honest? It's the way game was made to play. Focus on fun, not on rush. While in gw2 its always bout "fast, faster, fastest". You deal only 14.90k dps while i did 15,1k = kick. And no, its not lie, even if i wish it was.

>

> The best moment is when you get with 10 other RANDOM players, and you must just survive. You start thinking "how to make it?". And dont care that much about numbers or builds. That's the direction - pure fun. That's also the reason why i dont care bout raids anymore in gw2. From time to time i do some PUG with newbies just for this joy. But i dont give a f. about doing boss 2 mins faster than before. And also i never kick someone from my group as long as he try. I dont require him to play my way or dont play at all (like most people do), i just try to complete it. No matter how. Sure, you might call me casual, but guess what. I dont care, bcs for me you are casuals hiding behind expectation wall (nice coincident that you want "pro" players in team... for carring you? just saying) :P

 

Raids where "easy" because dungeons did a pretty good job prepering you for it. Every mobgroup could be a potential wipe if you didn´t sheep/zap, dps, tank..correctly. gw2 doesn´t prepare you for instanced endgame at all. ("what is CC?")

And raids where on a whole other organisation level then gw2 raids. 40ppl > 10ppl. with a lot of preping for it. (potions,etc.) in gw2 you open lfg and your in or make your own squad.

"Fast, faster, fastest" in Gw2 translates into "easy, easier ,easiest", its not about the 1 minute less per boss (exept you go for a record), it´s about that 1 minute less time to make a mistake that wipes the group.

Kicked for 200 less dps, IS a lie, or a chrono did 200 more, that it would be understandable.

 

Fun is very subjectiv and should not take part in a discussion as a messuring element.

[Miellyn.6847]

> @"gonzi.7605" said:

> The reason why raids was somehow popular in WoW was how easy it was to start raiding. Sure, there were people who would tryhard and goes with raid under 9,9999999999 min. But also many people dont care but that, they want just sit, 5 min and start raiding. And to be honest? It's the way game was made to play. Focus on fun, not on rush. While in gw2 its always bout "fast, faster, fastest". You deal only 14.90k dps while i did 15,1k = kick. And no, its not lie, even if i wish it was.

>

> The best moment is when you get with 10 other RANDOM players, and you must just survive. You start thinking "how to make it?". And dont care that much about numbers or builds. That's the direction - pure fun. That's also the reason why i dont care bout raids anymore in gw2. From time to time i do some PUG with newbies just for this joy. But i dont give a f. about doing boss 2 mins faster than before. And also i never kick someone from my group as long as he try. I dont require him to play my way or dont play at all (like most people do), i just try to complete it. No matter how. Sure, you might call me casual, but guess what. I dont care, bcs for me you are casuals hiding behind expectation wall (nice coincident that you want "pro" players in team... for carring you? just saying) :P

 

In most PUGs it is not about being two minutes faster than before. It is about killing the boss at all. And the chance you actually kill it with randoms you don't know is higher if they run medicore played meta builds.

Your DPS story may not be a lie but it is a pretty rare anectode. Not the norm and no relevance. Toxic people exist in every game. You can't avoid that.

 

And finally leave WoW out of this. LFR is the worst thing ever happend to group content. A gear spiral makes it significantly easier to join old raids overgeared. Nobody cares about the group when you are overgeared. Joining the current raids is a complete different topic. GW2 raiding community is pretty tame compared to WoW outside of LFR in current content.

 

The real difference is: in GW2 old content and overgearing doesn't exist. Mechanics are still as deadly as they were during release of the raid. If you start raiding in WoW in the first tier at the end of the expansion you have a difference like fractals tier 1 and fractals CM.

[Henry.5713]

Still don't get why people are always so shocked if asked to join "training groups" before they are allowed in experienced groups.

Nobody would let drive a car into high traffic by yourself and without a clue either. There is a reason why there are driving lessons, tests, driving instructors or parents watching you (or whichever system your country uses). While some people shouldn't drive a tall. Simply said... to avoid disaster.

[nosleepdemon.1368]

Man this all reminds me that I have been meaning to get into raiding. I just want to get my 100 fractals finished first. Is DPS Revenant a thing?

[maxwelgm.4315]

> @"nosleepdemon.1368" said:

> Man this all reminds me that I have been meaning to get into raiding. I just want to get my 100 fractals finished first. Is DPS Revenant a thing?

 

Renegade is in a very good position but condi is not very favored in Fractals. Power Herald is not optimal anywhere but it's braindead easy to use and you can probably top the DPS of most people pugging with you if you're good on it. I usually pug with it and people don't turn a second glance after the actual fight starts.

[Raizel.8175]

> @"Henry.5713" said:

> Still don't get why people are always so shocked if asked to join "training groups" before they are allowed in experienced groups.

> Nobody would let drive a car into high traffic by yourself and without a clue either. There is a reason why there are driving lessons, tests, driving instructors or parents watching you (or whichever system your country uses). While some people shouldn't drive a tall. Simply said... to avoid disaster.

 

The first problem is getting into training-groups/guilds/communities due to the lack of visiblity/publicity of these. The LFG just isn't sufficient. The second problem is getting into decent/experienced groups once you've done some training since the LI/LF/KP-requirements reached grotesque dimensions. That way, the raiding-community makes an already very niche game-mode even more niche by creating an artificial inaccessiblity - the raiding community is basically digging its own grave.

 

What most people apparently don't understand is the fact that such darwinistic (LI/LD/KP) hierarchies are unhealthy for MMORPGs anyway. Healthy MMOs need a healthy mix of player-types to make content successful. "Not so good" players will keep "not so good" players down while good players will push other good players - that's especially true in GW2 due to how PvE works here and considering how very overrewarding high DPS is due to phasing- and other mechanics. That's why - in a healthy MMO - you want a good mix of player-types to make the content more enjoyable for everyone. GW2 is the very first MMO I've met such a ridiculous hierarchy - and I've played many MMOs during the last 15 years, so I guess I may be able to actually say that GW2 is quite unhealthy in that regard.

[sigur.9453]

> @"Raizel.8175" said:

> > @"Henry.5713" said:

> > Still don't get why people are always so shocked if asked to join "training groups" before they are allowed in experienced groups.

> > Nobody would let drive a car into high traffic by yourself and without a clue either. There is a reason why there are driving lessons, tests, driving instructors or parents watching you (or whichever system your country uses). While some people shouldn't drive a tall. Simply said... to avoid disaster.

>

> The first problem is getting into training-groups/guilds/communities due to the lack of visiblity/publicity of these. The LFG just isn't sufficient. The second problem is getting into decent/experienced groups once you've done some training since the LI/LF/KP-requirements reached grotesque dimensions. That way, the raiding-community makes an already very niche game-mode even more niche by creating an artificial inaccessiblity - the raiding community is basically digging its own grave.

>

> What most people apparently don't understand is the fact that such darwinistic (LI/LD/KP) hierarchies are unhealthy for MMORPGs anyway. Healthy MMOs need a healthy mix of player-types to make content successful. "Not so good" players will keep "not so good" players down while good players will push other good players - that's especially true in GW2 due to how PvE works here and considering how very overrewarding high DPS is due to phasing- and other mechanics. That's why - in a healthy MMO - you want a good mix of player-types to make the content more enjoyable for everyone. GW2 is the very first MMO I've met such a ridiculous hierarchy - and I've played many MMOs during the last 15 years, so I guess I may be able to actually say that GW2 is quite unhealthy in that regard.

 

to be fair, while i agree with you partly. the difference between a "good player" and a "not so good player" is immense here compared to other mmo´s. the difference between "good stats" and "bad stats" aswell.

imo, there is something realy off if you can do 10 times the dps when you choose the right stats + rotation then "random stats + skills on cooldown". Dont get me wrong i highly appreciate rewarding gameplay (i know my class and i can play it well = good dps).

and do not talk about traits, 80% are useless after all.

a lot of choices =/= a lot of good choices.

chances are pretty high that a random pug with no LI & KP has never seen snowcrows.com or metabattle, because "its just a game" mentality or lets say the "i can do open world content on my own without dying, so i must be good" mindset. (we have all been there)

its also shocking that if you run open world event not a lot of ppl seam to know basic game mechanics (CC) which isn´t there fault per se, its rather on anets fault not "teaching" this stuff.

this stuff will make it harder for you/your group to kill a boss, so ppl are moving the savest way.

 

regarding trainings groups:

idealy you will find new friends there to form new statics, or join the guilds which hosted them. we do them on occation or rather take unexp ppl with us, its not unusual that they want to join us after .and we are currently running 6 statics in our guild. (obviously on different skill/exp levels)

lfg is a pretty nice tool, that a lot of people do net even know it exist, which is again on anets part to "teach". other that that ppl need to "take matter in their own hand". there was a player in aerodrom yesterday that simply asked "i want to start raiding, anyone here willing to teach". the majority of peoply simply wont do that since the rest of the game is "antisocial" af.

[Raizel.8175]

> @"sigur.9453" said:

> > @"Raizel.8175" said:

> > > @"Henry.5713" said:

> > > Still don't get why people are always so shocked if asked to join "training groups" before they are allowed in experienced groups.

> > > Nobody would let drive a car into high traffic by yourself and without a clue either. There is a reason why there are driving lessons, tests, driving instructors or parents watching you (or whichever system your country uses). While some people shouldn't drive a tall. Simply said... to avoid disaster.

> >

> > The first problem is getting into training-groups/guilds/communities due to the lack of visiblity/publicity of these. The LFG just isn't sufficient. The second problem is getting into decent/experienced groups once you've done some training since the LI/LF/KP-requirements reached grotesque dimensions. That way, the raiding-community makes an already very niche game-mode even more niche by creating an artificial inaccessiblity - the raiding community is basically digging its own grave.

> >

> > What most people apparently don't understand is the fact that such darwinistic (LI/LD/KP) hierarchies are unhealthy for MMORPGs anyway. Healthy MMOs need a healthy mix of player-types to make content successful. "Not so good" players will keep "not so good" players down while good players will push other good players - that's especially true in GW2 due to how PvE works here and considering how very overrewarding high DPS is due to phasing- and other mechanics. That's why - in a healthy MMO - you want a good mix of player-types to make the content more enjoyable for everyone. GW2 is the very first MMO I've met such a ridiculous hierarchy - and I've played many MMOs during the last 15 years, so I guess I may be able to actually say that GW2 is quite unhealthy in that regard.

>

> to be fair, while i agree with you partly. the difference between a "good player" and a "not so good player" is immense here compared to other mmo´s. the difference between "good stats" and "bad stats" aswell.

> imo, there is something realy off if you can do 10 times the dps when you choose the right stats + rotation then "random stats + skills on cooldown". Dont get me wrong i highly appreciate rewarding gameplay (i know my class and i can play it well = good dps).

> and do not talk about traits, 80% are useless after all.

> a lot of choices =/= a lot of good choices.

> chances are pretty high that a random pug with no LI & KP has never seen snowcrows.com or metabattle, because "its just a game" mentality or lets say the "i can do open world content on my own without dying, so i must be good" mindset. (we have all been there)

> its also shocking that if you run open world event not a lot of ppl seam to know basic game mechanics (CC) which isn´t there fault per se, its rather on anets fault not "teaching" this stuff.

> this stuff will make it harder for you/your group to kill a boss, so ppl are moving the savest way.

>

> regarding trainings groups:

> idealy you will find new friends there to form new statics, or join the guilds which hosted them. we do them on occation or rather take unexp ppl with us, its not unusual that they want to join us after .and we are currently running 6 statics in our guild. (obviously on different skill/exp levels)

> lfg is a pretty nice tool, that a lot of people do net even know it exist, which is again on anets part to "teach". other that that ppl need to "take matter in their own hand". there was a player in aerodrom yesterday that simply asked "i want to start raiding, anyone here willing to teach". the majority of peoply simply wont do that since the rest of the game is "antisocial" af.

 

I agree that it's ArenaNets fault for not implementing any meaningful guides as to how the game and its classes/mechanics/etc. work. One of the most glaring problems is also the lack of any meaningful difficulty- (and in that regard also reward-) progression in open-world- and story-content which would force people to get better. We're already playing a game with very limited options anyway. The combat and class system doesn't have much depth anyway. In that regard, I can actually understand why people use the LI/LD/KP-system as some sort of "necessary evil". The problem though is that the requirements people demand got out of hand.

 

Finding friends who are interested in raids isn't as easy as it sounds. First, raids are niche-content, many people are just uninterested. Then you have the problem of the raid-reward-structures. Some people simply don't want to raid anymore if they've already done their weekly full clear since they won't get any rewards after that. ArenaNet really needs to revamp that reward-system in a meaningful way which encourages people to take part in the content more. And yes, you're correct that large parts of the game are quite unsocial due to how they're designed. You could even argue that even raids are unsocial due to GW2s very superficial combat system - you don't even have to use stuff like Discord/TS to clear stuff.

[sigur.9453]

> @"Raizel.8175" said:

> > @"sigur.9453" said:

> > > @"Raizel.8175" said:

> > > > @"Henry.5713" said:

> > > > Still don't get why people are always so shocked if asked to join "training groups" before they are allowed in experienced groups.

> > > > Nobody would let drive a car into high traffic by yourself and without a clue either. There is a reason why there are driving lessons, tests, driving instructors or parents watching you (or whichever system your country uses). While some people shouldn't drive a tall. Simply said... to avoid disaster.

> > >

> > > The first problem is getting into training-groups/guilds/communities due to the lack of visiblity/publicity of these. The LFG just isn't sufficient. The second problem is getting into decent/experienced groups once you've done some training since the LI/LF/KP-requirements reached grotesque dimensions. That way, the raiding-community makes an already very niche game-mode even more niche by creating an artificial inaccessiblity - the raiding community is basically digging its own grave.

> > >

> > > What most people apparently don't understand is the fact that such darwinistic (LI/LD/KP) hierarchies are unhealthy for MMORPGs anyway. Healthy MMOs need a healthy mix of player-types to make content successful. "Not so good" players will keep "not so good" players down while good players will push other good players - that's especially true in GW2 due to how PvE works here and considering how very overrewarding high DPS is due to phasing- and other mechanics. That's why - in a healthy MMO - you want a good mix of player-types to make the content more enjoyable for everyone. GW2 is the very first MMO I've met such a ridiculous hierarchy - and I've played many MMOs during the last 15 years, so I guess I may be able to actually say that GW2 is quite unhealthy in that regard.

> >

> > to be fair, while i agree with you partly. the difference between a "good player" and a "not so good player" is immense here compared to other mmo´s. the difference between "good stats" and "bad stats" aswell.

> > imo, there is something realy off if you can do 10 times the dps when you choose the right stats + rotation then "random stats + skills on cooldown". Dont get me wrong i highly appreciate rewarding gameplay (i know my class and i can play it well = good dps).

> > and do not talk about traits, 80% are useless after all.

> > a lot of choices =/= a lot of good choices.

> > chances are pretty high that a random pug with no LI & KP has never seen snowcrows.com or metabattle, because "its just a game" mentality or lets say the "i can do open world content on my own without dying, so i must be good" mindset. (we have all been there)

> > its also shocking that if you run open world event not a lot of ppl seam to know basic game mechanics (CC) which isn´t there fault per se, its rather on anets fault not "teaching" this stuff.

> > this stuff will make it harder for you/your group to kill a boss, so ppl are moving the savest way.

> >

> > regarding trainings groups:

> > idealy you will find new friends there to form new statics, or join the guilds which hosted them. we do them on occation or rather take unexp ppl with us, its not unusual that they want to join us after .and we are currently running 6 statics in our guild. (obviously on different skill/exp levels)

> > lfg is a pretty nice tool, that a lot of people do net even know it exist, which is again on anets part to "teach". other that that ppl need to "take matter in their own hand". there was a player in aerodrom yesterday that simply asked "i want to start raiding, anyone here willing to teach". the majority of peoply simply wont do that since the rest of the game is "antisocial" af.

 

> Then you have the problem of the raid-reward-structures. Some people simply don't want to raid anymore if they've already done their weekly full clear since they won't get any rewards after that. ArenaNet really needs to revamp that reward-system in a meaningful way which encourages people to take part in the content more.

 

yes thats also a big part of the problem. but i understand this would be to hard to balance reward wise. i ony could imagine a daylie boss of some sort that rewards bufffood, minis or LI since everything gives LI nowadays.

[Raizel.8175]

> @"sigur.9453" said:

> > @"Raizel.8175" said:

> > > @"sigur.9453" said:

> > > > @"Raizel.8175" said:

> > > > > @"Henry.5713" said:

> > > > > Still don't get why people are always so shocked if asked to join "training groups" before they are allowed in experienced groups.

> > > > > Nobody would let drive a car into high traffic by yourself and without a clue either. There is a reason why there are driving lessons, tests, driving instructors or parents watching you (or whichever system your country uses). While some people shouldn't drive a tall. Simply said... to avoid disaster.

> > > >

> > > > The first problem is getting into training-groups/guilds/communities due to the lack of visiblity/publicity of these. The LFG just isn't sufficient. The second problem is getting into decent/experienced groups once you've done some training since the LI/LF/KP-requirements reached grotesque dimensions. That way, the raiding-community makes an already very niche game-mode even more niche by creating an artificial inaccessiblity - the raiding community is basically digging its own grave.

> > > >

> > > > What most people apparently don't understand is the fact that such darwinistic (LI/LD/KP) hierarchies are unhealthy for MMORPGs anyway. Healthy MMOs need a healthy mix of player-types to make content successful. "Not so good" players will keep "not so good" players down while good players will push other good players - that's especially true in GW2 due to how PvE works here and considering how very overrewarding high DPS is due to phasing- and other mechanics. That's why - in a healthy MMO - you want a good mix of player-types to make the content more enjoyable for everyone. GW2 is the very first MMO I've met such a ridiculous hierarchy - and I've played many MMOs during the last 15 years, so I guess I may be able to actually say that GW2 is quite unhealthy in that regard.

> > >

> > > to be fair, while i agree with you partly. the difference between a "good player" and a "not so good player" is immense here compared to other mmo´s. the difference between "good stats" and "bad stats" aswell.

> > > imo, there is something realy off if you can do 10 times the dps when you choose the right stats + rotation then "random stats + skills on cooldown". Dont get me wrong i highly appreciate rewarding gameplay (i know my class and i can play it well = good dps).

> > > and do not talk about traits, 80% are useless after all.

> > > a lot of choices =/= a lot of good choices.

> > > chances are pretty high that a random pug with no LI & KP has never seen snowcrows.com or metabattle, because "its just a game" mentality or lets say the "i can do open world content on my own without dying, so i must be good" mindset. (we have all been there)

> > > its also shocking that if you run open world event not a lot of ppl seam to know basic game mechanics (CC) which isn´t there fault per se, its rather on anets fault not "teaching" this stuff.

> > > this stuff will make it harder for you/your group to kill a boss, so ppl are moving the savest way.

> > >

> > > regarding trainings groups:

> > > idealy you will find new friends there to form new statics, or join the guilds which hosted them. we do them on occation or rather take unexp ppl with us, its not unusual that they want to join us after .and we are currently running 6 statics in our guild. (obviously on different skill/exp levels)

> > > lfg is a pretty nice tool, that a lot of people do net even know it exist, which is again on anets part to "teach". other that that ppl need to "take matter in their own hand". there was a player in aerodrom yesterday that simply asked "i want to start raiding, anyone here willing to teach". the majority of peoply simply wont do that since the rest of the game is "antisocial" af.

>

> > Then you have the problem of the raid-reward-structures. Some people simply don't want to raid anymore if they've already done their weekly full clear since they won't get any rewards after that. ArenaNet really needs to revamp that reward-system in a meaningful way which encourages people to take part in the content more.

>

> yes thats also a big part of the problem. but i understand this would be to hard to balance reward wise. i ony could imagine a daylie boss of some sort that rewards bufffood, minis or LI since everything gives LI nowadays.

 

Don't really know if that really should be an argument. Just look at how overrewarding maps like Istan are for the really low effort you have to put in. They could at least add several chests with valuable trash-items just like fractal encryptions and make keys you can buy for Magnetite Shards and gold in a layered system just like in fractals. They could also just get rid of the weekly Magnetite Shard cap - not like anyone would farm easy raids all the time to farm these for Ghostly Infusions. The Opening-system would prevent raidfarming anyway. The only thing I can understand is the weekly LI-cap, but that's about it.

[Feanor.2358]

> @"Miellyn.6847" said:

> > @"Lonami.2987" said:

> > WoW has difficulty modes, so you can enter an "easy mode" raid with no idea of what to do, learn a thing or two, and then still beat the content.

>

> No you can't as they strip mechanics from bosses on the lowest difficulty. You learn that it doesn't matter that you contribute to the boss at all as half of the raid can afk and still collect loot. WoW LFR is the worst thing to bring as an example.

>

> There were screenshots around that we might get an easymode with reduced incoming and increased outgoing damage.

 

Strange how well this describes world boss events in GW2, don't you think? ;)

[Walhalla.5473]

> @"Miellyn.6847" said:

> > @"Lonami.2987" said:

> > WoW has difficulty modes, so you can enter an "easy mode" raid with no idea of what to do, learn a thing or two, and then still beat the content.

>

> No you can't as they strip mechanics from bosses on the lowest difficulty. You learn that it doesn't matter that you contribute to the boss at all as half of the raid can afk and still collect loot. WoW LFR is the worst thing to bring as an example.

>

> There were screenshots around that we might get an easymode with reduced incoming and increased outgoing damage.

 

If an easy mode is coming then Anet should make it clear what the goal of that mode is. If the goal is just to let every player roflstomp everything then yeah mechanics will be neutered to the point that they don't exist. But if the goal is to teach players mechanics on the bosses, then mechanics should be easier to deal with but still stay deadly otherwise you just teach players the wrong stuff. A World Eater for example should still kill everyone caught by it no matter the mode people are playing, but have a longer charge time on easy.

 

And I completely agree that LFR is the worst thing to bring as an example. LFR had completely neutered bosses with mechanics that didn't matter. It taught players nothing.

[Miellyn.6847]

> @"Feanor.2358" said:

> > @"Miellyn.6847" said:

> > > @"Lonami.2987" said:

> > > WoW has difficulty modes, so you can enter an "easy mode" raid with no idea of what to do, learn a thing or two, and then still beat the content.

> >

> > No you can't as they strip mechanics from bosses on the lowest difficulty. You learn that it doesn't matter that you contribute to the boss at all as half of the raid can afk and still collect loot. WoW LFR is the worst thing to bring as an example.

> >

> > There were screenshots around that we might get an easymode with reduced incoming and increased outgoing damage.

>

> Strange how well this describes world boss events in GW2, don't you think? ;)

 

Or like most other open world bosses in other games.

You can't control who joins your world boss so naturally they have a lower difficulty than instanced bosses.

> @"Walhalla.5473" said:

> > @"Miellyn.6847" said:

> > > @"Lonami.2987" said:

> > > WoW has difficulty modes, so you can enter an "easy mode" raid with no idea of what to do, learn a thing or two, and then still beat the content.

> >

> > No you can't as they strip mechanics from bosses on the lowest difficulty. You learn that it doesn't matter that you contribute to the boss at all as half of the raid can afk and still collect loot. WoW LFR is the worst thing to bring as an example.

> >

> > There were screenshots around that we might get an easymode with reduced incoming and increased outgoing damage.

>

> If an easy mode is coming then Anet should make it clear what the goal of that mode is. If the goal is just to let every player roflstomp everything then yeah mechanics will be neutered to the point that they don't exist. But if the goal is to teach players mechanics on the bosses, then mechanics should be easier to deal with but still stay deadly otherwise you just teach players the wrong stuff. A World Eater for example should still kill everyone caught by it no matter the mode people are playing, but have a longer charge time on easy.

>

> And I completely agree that LFR is the worst thing to bring as an example. LFR had completely neutered bosses with mechanics that didn't matter. It taught players nothing.

 

Another problem with an easy mode. The supporter for easy modes don't even know themselves what kind of raid they want. ArenaNet can't win this battle.

[nosleepdemon.1368]

> @"maxwelgm.4315" said:

> > @"nosleepdemon.1368" said:

> > Man this all reminds me that I have been meaning to get into raiding. I just want to get my 100 fractals finished first. Is DPS Revenant a thing?

>

> Renegade is in a very good position but condi is not very favored in Fractals. Power Herald is not optimal anywhere but it's braindead easy to use and you can probably top the DPS of most people pugging with you if you're good on it. I usually pug with it and people don't turn a second glance after the actual fight starts.

 

Yes power herald is a bit of fun and nice and simplistic. I do have a Viper's set but only the trinkets and weapons are ascended. Perhaps one day I shall afford more than just the first ascended armour piece!

[wiazabi.2549]

For me after getting into the raids they are fun but the most difficult part for me was actually setting up stuff to avoid failing mechanic like if you set some graphic settings to low there will be certain telegraphs not showing whatsoever, Deimos 1st green teleport circle would show just fine after that it never showed.

 

Yolo mouse feels like a must have in general as the normal blend in to much.

 

Spell clutter from players turning off new players as it can become near impossible to see whats going on which is like new player -> no idea whats going on vs vet player who have it all in the reflexes.

 

Random stuff blocking camera "cough" sloth leaves hanging from room.

 

Another turn off is the class balance being so off that it can feel like you are a burden if not playing certain class(es) and condi or power for the encounter.

[Walhalla.5473]

> @"Miellyn.6847" said:

> Another problem with an easy mode. The supporter for easy modes don't even know themselves what kind of raid they want. ArenaNet can't win this battle.

 

I would say that before working on an easy mode Anet should ask themselves what they want with the easy mode and if they release such a mode then they should tell the community what their goal with that mode is.

 

Also there is another thing that should be accounted for. Some boss fights are so easy that an easy mode of that would be an insult to the whole GW2 playerbase, those fights need to be rebalanced and tweaked.

[shejesa.3712]

> @"Blood Red Arachnid.2493" said:

> There's probably more that I haven't thought of. We have a community that unironically demands 100 unstable cosmic essence for CM100. The notion that people can't get into raids just because they're all leechers or aren't trying is rather silly.

No offence, but are you even aware how huge a difference there is between people with 10KP and 100KP, not to mention a stack++?

It's so huge that I'd rather stick with people from my KP bracket than keep wiping or wasting food with 10KP people.

 

 

[Lahmia.2193]

I mean it's not like you can't fake the KP/LI links. I mean if you've watched guides enough to know the mechanics, you should be able to bluff it easy. I did.

[shejesa.3712]

> @"Lahmia.2193" said:

> I mean it's not like you can't fake the KP/LI links. I mean if you've watched guides enough to know the mechanics, you should be able to bluff it easy. I did.

 

And people like me or any other raiders who are experienced will be able to tell you faked your LI for most of the time :3 ofc, you can fake it, but it would take more skill than just to start a macro, you'd have to get it to make random short pauses between links. And even then we can ask you to split, you should be prepared for such an opportunity as well :3

[Blood Red Arachnid.2493]

> @"shejesa.3712" said:

> > @"Blood Red Arachnid.2493" said:

> > There's probably more that I haven't thought of. We have a community that unironically demands 100 unstable cosmic essence for CM100. The notion that people can't get into raids just because they're all leechers or aren't trying is rather silly.

> No offence, but are you even aware how huge a difference there is between people with 10KP and 100KP, not to mention a stack++?

> It's so huge that I'd rather stick with people from my KP bracket than keep wiping or wasting food with 10KP people.

>

>

 

Though I sell off my essence, I do so in bulk lots of 100 or so. I've amassed at least a stack with how many times I've done CM100. Having done this, I will reaffirm that 100 ess requirements for CM100 are utter frivolities that offers no distinct advantage over any reasonable essence demand, and continues to be wholly illogical by demanding players save up their essence instead of spending it on the shiny infusions it is meant to buy. 100 KP doesn't prove skill, it proves either monotony or intimate knowledge of the chat system. From my experience there is no discernible performance difference between a 30 essence group and a 100 essence group, with the exception that people at 100 essence are much more hostile and paranoid.

[shejesa.3712]

> @"Blood Red Arachnid.2493" said:

> > @"shejesa.3712" said:

> > > @"Blood Red Arachnid.2493" said:

> > > There's probably more that I haven't thought of. We have a community that unironically demands 100 unstable cosmic essence for CM100. The notion that people can't get into raids just because they're all leechers or aren't trying is rather silly.

> > No offence, but are you even aware how huge a difference there is between people with 10KP and 100KP, not to mention a stack++?

> > It's so huge that I'd rather stick with people from my KP bracket than keep wiping or wasting food with 10KP people.

> >

> >

>

> Though I sell off my essence, I do so in bulk lots of 100 or so. I've amassed at least a stack with how many times I've done CM100. Having done this, I will reaffirm that 100 ess requirements for CM100 are utter frivolities that offers no distinct advantage over any reasonable essence demand, and continues to be wholly illogical by demanding players save up their essence instead of spending it on the shiny infusions it is meant to buy. 100 KP doesn't prove skill, it proves either monotony or intimate knowledge of the chat system. From my experience there is no discernible performance difference between a 30 essence group and a 100 essence group, with the exception that people at 100 essence are much more hostile and paranoid.

 

Well, most of the time pugs have no problem if you ping some kp and show you have the infusion or tonic. Because of that I understood your point as 'why would you ask for more exp players if you can have newbs'

[Vinceman.4572]

> @"Blood Red Arachnid.2493" said:

> Though I sell off my essence, I do so in bulk lots of 100 or so. I've amassed at least a stack with how many times I've done CM100. Having done this, I will reaffirm that 100 ess requirements for CM100 are utter frivolities that offers no distinct advantage over any reasonable essence demand, and continues to be wholly illogical by demanding players save up their essence instead of spending it on the shiny infusions it is meant to buy. 100 KP doesn't prove skill, it proves either monotony or intimate knowledge of the chat system. From my experience there is no discernible performance difference between a 30 essence group and a 100 essence group, with the exception that people at 100 essence are much more hostile and paranoid.

 

That's just plain wrong. I ran CMs on a daily basis over 7 months to get the fractal god asap. There are **huge** gaps between low KP groups and high KP groups. While it may be possible that a 10 KP group will be able to oneshot 100 CM and a 100 KP that struggles, fails and disbands those are just exceptions proving the rule. **You have to keep in mind: There are players with more than a stack of essences setting up a low KP requirement because they were able to carry others.** Just thinking about the pre-nerf chrono-druid composition where better players were able to take a lot of pressure from the group. And most often the other 3 didn't realized even that nor had they the knowledge of that potential. It's still up until today where people want to kick you right after you joined with a different class to get the spot before relogging and another one gets it. A huge majority of fractal player is thinking that people only have one char equipped with 150 AR so that joining must have been a troll or something similar.

100 KP is no direct skill indicator but it's clearly showing that you have invested in understanding the mechanics and you are able to handle them properly. The advantage of such a group is so freaking huge because people know all the gimmicks (for example xera portals) that make a run so much smoother compared to a non-high KP group. There even is a difference between 50 and 100 KP.

I've seen posts like yours during the old dungeon discussions and when fractals became a more popular thing after the release of HoT. People are getting through the content with maybe a wipe here and downstates here and so on and so on. The thing is they have never seen a competent group breezing through it and therefore they think they're already on the top of the hill.

[Malediktus.9250]

> @"Vinceman.4572" said:

> > @"Blood Red Arachnid.2493" said:

> > Though I sell off my essence, I do so in bulk lots of 100 or so. I've amassed at least a stack with how many times I've done CM100. Having done this, I will reaffirm that 100 ess requirements for CM100 are utter frivolities that offers no distinct advantage over any reasonable essence demand, and continues to be wholly illogical by demanding players save up their essence instead of spending it on the shiny infusions it is meant to buy. 100 KP doesn't prove skill, it proves either monotony or intimate knowledge of the chat system. From my experience there is no discernible performance difference between a 30 essence group and a 100 essence group, with the exception that people at 100 essence are much more hostile and paranoid.

>

> That's just plain wrong. I ran CMs on a daily basis over 7 months to get the fractal god asap. There are **huge** gaps between low KP groups and high KP groups. While it may be possible that a 10 KP group will be able to oneshot 100 CM and a 100 KP that struggles, fails and disbands those are just exceptions proving the rule. **You have to keep in mind: There are players with more than a stack of essences setting up a low KP requirement because they were able to carry others.**

 

Can confirm, I usually ask for 150 KP despite having much more than that. More and the lfg wait time vs group quality results in diminishing returns

 

 

[Lahmia.2193]

> @"shejesa.3712" said:

> > @"Lahmia.2193" said:

> > I mean it's not like you can't fake the KP/LI links. I mean if you've watched guides enough to know the mechanics, you should be able to bluff it easy. I did.

>

> And people like me or any other raiders who are experienced will be able to tell you faked your LI for most of the time :3 ofc, you can fake it, but it would take more skill than just to start a macro, you'd have to get it to make random short pauses between links. And even then we can ask you to split, you should be prepared for such an opportunity as well :3

 

Well I've duped enough experienced raiders like yourself, so maybe you need to up your game. :3

[Teratus.2859]

> @"Linken.6345" said:

> > @"Sephylon.4938" said:

> > you forgot the part where they point you to a training raid group/guild

> Yea and newbie answer -but I dont want/need to train, I want to kill.

> Raider -but thats what everyone had to do when begining.

> Newbie -easy mode raids please.

>

 

I am literally only a fan of easy mode raids for the lore locked behind them.

I wouldn't even care if they had little to no loot at all.. I'd run them purely for the lore.

It would be as simple as disabling loot and and nerfing 20-40% of the bosses HP away.

 

It would give players who want to raid but cant an easier introduction to the concept.. allow them to learn each bosses mechanics in a less stressful environment and when they do finally join a proper raid group they will already know the mechanics and won't end up making mistakes that make the advanced raiders turn into crazy people that scream at everyone who messes up :P