Ayrilana.1396 Posted October 25, 2018 Share Posted October 25, 2018 > @"Gop.8713" said: > > @"Ayrilana.1396" said: > > > @"Gop.8713" said: > > > > @"Ayrilana.1396" said: > > > > > @"Gop.8713" said: > > > > > > @"Ayrilana.1396" said: > > > > > > > @"Gop.8713" said: > > > > > > > > @"Ayrilana.1396" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Gop.8713" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Ayrilana.1396" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Gop.8713" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Haleydawn.3764" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Gop.8713" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"yann.1946" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And I can totally use that argument against you to why would a sigil being expensive be unhealthy? > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bc it made ppl stop playing the game . . . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Source? (Outside of a mate of a mate guild member outright doesn't login and has said it is unequivocally because of the Convergence of Sorrow: Requiem.) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think you misunderstood. I didn't say quit the game, I said stop playing the game, and expanded upon what content I was referring to in the rest of the post. I am a bit offended to discover that you feel the ppl I play with don't matter though . . . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And had they been able to complete the collection at a price that they felt reasonable they’d still have stopped playing the game anyway. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To me, players completing content and players giving up on content before completing it are opposites not analogues . . . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > They’re two things that result in the same outcome as you described. You can put them as opposites of whatever spectrum you created but it still wouldn’t change that. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Edit: Actually that assumes that they had anything to do with that outcome coming into realization in the first place. People stop playing content for various reasons. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Completing something and giving up on it are the same thing bc you're done with it either way? Your position seems absurd, can you confirm that you did not misstate it . . ? > > > > > > > > > > > > Those are not opposites of each other. In no way did I ever say that they were the same. There are a multitude of reasons that players could stop playing content. Having completed the content or giving up on it are but two of them. > > > > > > > > > > > > Players that stopped playing the game over the sigils and not being able to complete the collection likely would have done the same thing had they been able to. > > > > > > > > > > In the first case content was created and enjoyed by the player, in the other case content was created and not enjoyed by the player. While it is true that both cases result in players no longer playing the content, enjoying/not enjoying and completing/not completing are in fact opposites. This is relevant bc it is the goal of a gaming company to create content that their players enjoy . . . > > > > > > > > Edit: Re-doing post > > > > > > > > You brought up the assertion that people stopped playing the game because of the collection with the sigils. There are many reasons that people stop playing the game. Whether they had completed the collection or not most likely would not have been an influencing factor in this. > > > > > > > > Among those reasons that could lead people to stop playing the game, there are bound to be opposites; it’s inevitable. The fact that there are opposites doesn’t matter. You can find opposites in everything depending on how hard you look or twist things. > > > > > > Can't tell if you're forgetful or just trolling, so let's recap (or you can just go back and reread the original posts, if you prefer). Someone asked me how this issue with the sigils was unhealthy for the game. I pointed out it was unhealthy for the game bc it made ppl stop playing, then specifically pointed out that I was referring to this particular story. A second person replied to my explanation and indicated that they had misread that as players quitting the game entirely, so I clarified again that I was only referring to the content I described in the original post. You quoted this second explanation, so presumably you had read what you quoted and understood what I was referring to, and you replied that they would have stopped playing anyway, once they finished the content. I said that wasn't a good analogy bc completing something and giving up on it are opposites. You said doesn't matter bc same outcome, I said that was absurd, and now you're saying whether they completed the content or not has no bearing on whether they would stop playing it . . ? > > > > > > I think you may have lost the train of thought somewhere along in there . . . > > > > > > The reason that stopping after completion and stopping before completion being opposite is impt is bc they literally define success or failure, for both the player and the content, as indicated in the post you've quoted for your most recent reply. You don't have to look hard or twist anything to notice that success and failure are opposites . . . > > > > You said the sigil being expensive made players stop playing the game. The other poster said “quit” but you disputed that even though they’re the same thing. I responded by saying that people who stopped/quit because of the collection would have done the same anyway. There are many reasons beyond just that collection as to why people stop playing. You then spun it onto something about opposites. > > > > While those two possible reasons are opposites it doesn’t change what I said that people still would have stopped playing regardless. That was also assuming that those two reasons were the cause in the first place. There’s likely more to it than simply stopping from playing the game over a very minor collection. > > I feel your reading is inconsistent with what I posted . . . Nope. Just read over everything again. You also assumed the collection was the major point of the episode and not being able to do it because of the high cost sigils meant players had no reason to do the episode. > So if the situation with the superior sigil of nullification caused ppl to look at the story and say 'nope, not doing that', that is a negative, unhealthy outcome for the game . . . There are plenty of reasons to do the episodes as having collections tied to the completion of the story is very rare. The collection was just an ancillary task. If players stopped-quit playing the game over the sigil price, chances are they wouldn’t have been playing had the sigil been at a price they found reasonable. Players tend to stop playing when they have a lack of things they want to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gop.8713 Posted October 25, 2018 Share Posted October 25, 2018 > @"Dante.1763" said: > > @"Gop.8713" said: > > > @"Pirindolo.9427" said: > > > I insist folks: as long as the sigils remain at the 9 to 12G boundary, alt-farmers will keep supplying them. When crazy ppl ready to pay all that much are done, and the prices start to go down, no alt-farmer will bother, and ppl that weren't ready to pay those prices, but still want to get the armor, will have to start playing 25 alts to lvl 64. > > > > I share your frustration, but a couple of points: First, there is no reason to believe the price will go up so ppl with tomes to level alts and the will to use those tomes to get sigils to sell would have already done so. Second, as the price drops the sigil becomes more available to ppl whose only impediment is the price, so they would not have to level 25 alts to get the sigils . . . > > As the price drops the people who are leveling alts to sell sigils will stop doing that, which is his point. Hey, I missed this, sry . . . If this were to happen, it would be a problem for the seller not the buyer. It's a product of how the information is transmitted. The sellers wouldn't know their efforts weren't worth it until after those efforts were completed and the sigils were listed and didn't sell at the desired price. As sigils listed more cheaply came off the market, the price would rise unless sigils from drops exceeded demand at that point, and if the price rose profit-motivated levelers would resume introduction of their sigils . . . We will eventually reach a point where the sigils are near worthless again, it's the eventually that's the problem. How soon depends on how many ppl give up and move on . . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muusic.2967 Posted October 25, 2018 Share Posted October 25, 2018 Anet should just do a find/replace with the name of the next item that spurns another one of these threads and title it "Latest economy snivelboards" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gop.8713 Posted October 25, 2018 Share Posted October 25, 2018 > @"Ayrilana.1396" said: > > @"Gop.8713" said: > > > @"Ayrilana.1396" said: > > > > @"Gop.8713" said: > > > > > @"Ayrilana.1396" said: > > > > > > @"Gop.8713" said: > > > > > > > @"Ayrilana.1396" said: > > > > > > > > @"Gop.8713" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Ayrilana.1396" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Gop.8713" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Ayrilana.1396" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Gop.8713" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Haleydawn.3764" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Gop.8713" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"yann.1946" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And I can totally use that argument against you to why would a sigil being expensive be unhealthy? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bc it made ppl stop playing the game . . . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Source? (Outside of a mate of a mate guild member outright doesn't login and has said it is unequivocally because of the Convergence of Sorrow: Requiem.) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think you misunderstood. I didn't say quit the game, I said stop playing the game, and expanded upon what content I was referring to in the rest of the post. I am a bit offended to discover that you feel the ppl I play with don't matter though . . . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And had they been able to complete the collection at a price that they felt reasonable they’d still have stopped playing the game anyway. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To me, players completing content and players giving up on content before completing it are opposites not analogues . . . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > They’re two things that result in the same outcome as you described. You can put them as opposites of whatever spectrum you created but it still wouldn’t change that. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Edit: Actually that assumes that they had anything to do with that outcome coming into realization in the first place. People stop playing content for various reasons. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Completing something and giving up on it are the same thing bc you're done with it either way? Your position seems absurd, can you confirm that you did not misstate it . . ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Those are not opposites of each other. In no way did I ever say that they were the same. There are a multitude of reasons that players could stop playing content. Having completed the content or giving up on it are but two of them. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Players that stopped playing the game over the sigils and not being able to complete the collection likely would have done the same thing had they been able to. > > > > > > > > > > > > In the first case content was created and enjoyed by the player, in the other case content was created and not enjoyed by the player. While it is true that both cases result in players no longer playing the content, enjoying/not enjoying and completing/not completing are in fact opposites. This is relevant bc it is the goal of a gaming company to create content that their players enjoy . . . > > > > > > > > > > Edit: Re-doing post > > > > > > > > > > You brought up the assertion that people stopped playing the game because of the collection with the sigils. There are many reasons that people stop playing the game. Whether they had completed the collection or not most likely would not have been an influencing factor in this. > > > > > > > > > > Among those reasons that could lead people to stop playing the game, there are bound to be opposites; it’s inevitable. The fact that there are opposites doesn’t matter. You can find opposites in everything depending on how hard you look or twist things. > > > > > > > > Can't tell if you're forgetful or just trolling, so let's recap (or you can just go back and reread the original posts, if you prefer). Someone asked me how this issue with the sigils was unhealthy for the game. I pointed out it was unhealthy for the game bc it made ppl stop playing, then specifically pointed out that I was referring to this particular story. A second person replied to my explanation and indicated that they had misread that as players quitting the game entirely, so I clarified again that I was only referring to the content I described in the original post. You quoted this second explanation, so presumably you had read what you quoted and understood what I was referring to, and you replied that they would have stopped playing anyway, once they finished the content. I said that wasn't a good analogy bc completing something and giving up on it are opposites. You said doesn't matter bc same outcome, I said that was absurd, and now you're saying whether they completed the content or not has no bearing on whether they would stop playing it . . ? > > > > > > > > I think you may have lost the train of thought somewhere along in there . . . > > > > > > > > The reason that stopping after completion and stopping before completion being opposite is impt is bc they literally define success or failure, for both the player and the content, as indicated in the post you've quoted for your most recent reply. You don't have to look hard or twist anything to notice that success and failure are opposites . . . > > > > > > You said the sigil being expensive made players stop playing the game. The other poster said “quit” but you disputed that even though they’re the same thing. I responded by saying that people who stopped/quit because of the collection would have done the same anyway. There are many reasons beyond just that collection as to why people stop playing. You then spun it onto something about opposites. > > > > > > While those two possible reasons are opposites it doesn’t change what I said that people still would have stopped playing regardless. That was also assuming that those two reasons were the cause in the first place. There’s likely more to it than simply stopping from playing the game over a very minor collection. > > > > I feel your reading is inconsistent with what I posted . . . > > Nope. Just read over everything again. > > You also assumed the collection was the major point of the episode and not being able to do it because of the high cost sigils meant players had no reason to do the episode. > > > So if the situation with the superior sigil of nullification caused ppl to look at the story and say 'nope, not doing that', that is a negative, unhealthy outcome for the game . . . > > There are plenty of reasons to do the episodes as having collections tied to the completion of the story is very rare. The collection was just an ancillary task. Even this reply indicates that you are misreading. On a few points actually, but I feel like we should get the first one straight before moving on . . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ayrilana.1396 Posted October 25, 2018 Share Posted October 25, 2018 > @"Gop.8713" said: > > @"Ayrilana.1396" said: > > > @"Gop.8713" said: > > > > @"Ayrilana.1396" said: > > > > > @"Gop.8713" said: > > > > > > @"Ayrilana.1396" said: > > > > > > > @"Gop.8713" said: > > > > > > > > @"Ayrilana.1396" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Gop.8713" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Ayrilana.1396" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Gop.8713" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Ayrilana.1396" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Gop.8713" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Haleydawn.3764" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Gop.8713" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"yann.1946" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And I can totally use that argument against you to why would a sigil being expensive be unhealthy? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bc it made ppl stop playing the game . . . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Source? (Outside of a mate of a mate guild member outright doesn't login and has said it is unequivocally because of the Convergence of Sorrow: Requiem.) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think you misunderstood. I didn't say quit the game, I said stop playing the game, and expanded upon what content I was referring to in the rest of the post. I am a bit offended to discover that you feel the ppl I play with don't matter though . . . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And had they been able to complete the collection at a price that they felt reasonable they’d still have stopped playing the game anyway. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To me, players completing content and players giving up on content before completing it are opposites not analogues . . . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > They’re two things that result in the same outcome as you described. You can put them as opposites of whatever spectrum you created but it still wouldn’t change that. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Edit: Actually that assumes that they had anything to do with that outcome coming into realization in the first place. People stop playing content for various reasons. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Completing something and giving up on it are the same thing bc you're done with it either way? Your position seems absurd, can you confirm that you did not misstate it . . ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Those are not opposites of each other. In no way did I ever say that they were the same. There are a multitude of reasons that players could stop playing content. Having completed the content or giving up on it are but two of them. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Players that stopped playing the game over the sigils and not being able to complete the collection likely would have done the same thing had they been able to. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In the first case content was created and enjoyed by the player, in the other case content was created and not enjoyed by the player. While it is true that both cases result in players no longer playing the content, enjoying/not enjoying and completing/not completing are in fact opposites. This is relevant bc it is the goal of a gaming company to create content that their players enjoy . . . > > > > > > > > > > > > Edit: Re-doing post > > > > > > > > > > > > You brought up the assertion that people stopped playing the game because of the collection with the sigils. There are many reasons that people stop playing the game. Whether they had completed the collection or not most likely would not have been an influencing factor in this. > > > > > > > > > > > > Among those reasons that could lead people to stop playing the game, there are bound to be opposites; it’s inevitable. The fact that there are opposites doesn’t matter. You can find opposites in everything depending on how hard you look or twist things. > > > > > > > > > > Can't tell if you're forgetful or just trolling, so let's recap (or you can just go back and reread the original posts, if you prefer). Someone asked me how this issue with the sigils was unhealthy for the game. I pointed out it was unhealthy for the game bc it made ppl stop playing, then specifically pointed out that I was referring to this particular story. A second person replied to my explanation and indicated that they had misread that as players quitting the game entirely, so I clarified again that I was only referring to the content I described in the original post. You quoted this second explanation, so presumably you had read what you quoted and understood what I was referring to, and you replied that they would have stopped playing anyway, once they finished the content. I said that wasn't a good analogy bc completing something and giving up on it are opposites. You said doesn't matter bc same outcome, I said that was absurd, and now you're saying whether they completed the content or not has no bearing on whether they would stop playing it . . ? > > > > > > > > > > I think you may have lost the train of thought somewhere along in there . . . > > > > > > > > > > The reason that stopping after completion and stopping before completion being opposite is impt is bc they literally define success or failure, for both the player and the content, as indicated in the post you've quoted for your most recent reply. You don't have to look hard or twist anything to notice that success and failure are opposites . . . > > > > > > > > You said the sigil being expensive made players stop playing the game. The other poster said “quit” but you disputed that even though they’re the same thing. I responded by saying that people who stopped/quit because of the collection would have done the same anyway. There are many reasons beyond just that collection as to why people stop playing. You then spun it onto something about opposites. > > > > > > > > While those two possible reasons are opposites it doesn’t change what I said that people still would have stopped playing regardless. That was also assuming that those two reasons were the cause in the first place. There’s likely more to it than simply stopping from playing the game over a very minor collection. > > > > > > I feel your reading is inconsistent with what I posted . . . > > > > Nope. Just read over everything again. > > > > You also assumed the collection was the major point of the episode and not being able to do it because of the high cost sigils meant players had no reason to do the episode. > > > > > So if the situation with the superior sigil of nullification caused ppl to look at the story and say 'nope, not doing that', that is a negative, unhealthy outcome for the game . . . > > > > There are plenty of reasons to do the episodes as having collections tied to the completion of the story is very rare. The collection was just an ancillary task. > > Even this reply indicates that you are misreading. On a few points actually, but I feel like we should get the first one straight before moving on . . . I’m reading exactly what you wrote. Just because you disagree with what I’m saying doesn’t mean that I’m misreading. Otherwise, I could just say that you’re misreading me but that would get us nowhere. If there’s confusion somewhere then please point it out. 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Gop.8713 Posted October 25, 2018 Share Posted October 25, 2018 > @"Ayrilana.1396" said: > > @"Gop.8713" said: > > > @"Ayrilana.1396" said: > > > > @"Gop.8713" said: > > > > > @"Ayrilana.1396" said: > > > > > > @"Gop.8713" said: > > > > > > > @"Ayrilana.1396" said: > > > > > > > > @"Gop.8713" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Ayrilana.1396" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Gop.8713" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Ayrilana.1396" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Gop.8713" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Ayrilana.1396" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Gop.8713" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Haleydawn.3764" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Gop.8713" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"yann.1946" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And I can totally use that argument against you to why would a sigil being expensive be unhealthy? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bc it made ppl stop playing the game . . . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Source? (Outside of a mate of a mate guild member outright doesn't login and has said it is unequivocally because of the Convergence of Sorrow: Requiem.) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think you misunderstood. I didn't say quit the game, I said stop playing the game, and expanded upon what content I was referring to in the rest of the post. I am a bit offended to discover that you feel the ppl I play with don't matter though . . . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And had they been able to complete the collection at a price that they felt reasonable they’d still have stopped playing the game anyway. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To me, players completing content and players giving up on content before completing it are opposites not analogues . . . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > They’re two things that result in the same outcome as you described. You can put them as opposites of whatever spectrum you created but it still wouldn’t change that. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Edit: Actually that assumes that they had anything to do with that outcome coming into realization in the first place. People stop playing content for various reasons. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Completing something and giving up on it are the same thing bc you're done with it either way? Your position seems absurd, can you confirm that you did not misstate it . . ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Those are not opposites of each other. In no way did I ever say that they were the same. There are a multitude of reasons that players could stop playing content. Having completed the content or giving up on it are but two of them. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Players that stopped playing the game over the sigils and not being able to complete the collection likely would have done the same thing had they been able to. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In the first case content was created and enjoyed by the player, in the other case content was created and not enjoyed by the player. While it is true that both cases result in players no longer playing the content, enjoying/not enjoying and completing/not completing are in fact opposites. This is relevant bc it is the goal of a gaming company to create content that their players enjoy . . . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Edit: Re-doing post > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You brought up the assertion that people stopped playing the game because of the collection with the sigils. There are many reasons that people stop playing the game. Whether they had completed the collection or not most likely would not have been an influencing factor in this. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Among those reasons that could lead people to stop playing the game, there are bound to be opposites; it’s inevitable. The fact that there are opposites doesn’t matter. You can find opposites in everything depending on how hard you look or twist things. > > > > > > > > > > > > Can't tell if you're forgetful or just trolling, so let's recap (or you can just go back and reread the original posts, if you prefer). Someone asked me how this issue with the sigils was unhealthy for the game. I pointed out it was unhealthy for the game bc it made ppl stop playing, then specifically pointed out that I was referring to this particular story. A second person replied to my explanation and indicated that they had misread that as players quitting the game entirely, so I clarified again that I was only referring to the content I described in the original post. You quoted this second explanation, so presumably you had read what you quoted and understood what I was referring to, and you replied that they would have stopped playing anyway, once they finished the content. I said that wasn't a good analogy bc completing something and giving up on it are opposites. You said doesn't matter bc same outcome, I said that was absurd, and now you're saying whether they completed the content or not has no bearing on whether they would stop playing it . . ? > > > > > > > > > > > > I think you may have lost the train of thought somewhere along in there . . . > > > > > > > > > > > > The reason that stopping after completion and stopping before completion being opposite is impt is bc they literally define success or failure, for both the player and the content, as indicated in the post you've quoted for your most recent reply. You don't have to look hard or twist anything to notice that success and failure are opposites . . . > > > > > > > > > > You said the sigil being expensive made players stop playing the game. The other poster said “quit” but you disputed that even though they’re the same thing. I responded by saying that people who stopped/quit because of the collection would have done the same anyway. There are many reasons beyond just that collection as to why people stop playing. You then spun it onto something about opposites. > > > > > > > > > > While those two possible reasons are opposites it doesn’t change what I said that people still would have stopped playing regardless. That was also assuming that those two reasons were the cause in the first place. There’s likely more to it than simply stopping from playing the game over a very minor collection. > > > > > > > > I feel your reading is inconsistent with what I posted . . . > > > > > > Nope. Just read over everything again. > > > > > > You also assumed the collection was the major point of the episode and not being able to do it because of the high cost sigils meant players had no reason to do the episode. > > > > > > > So if the situation with the superior sigil of nullification caused ppl to look at the story and say 'nope, not doing that', that is a negative, unhealthy outcome for the game . . . > > > > > > There are plenty of reasons to do the episodes as having collections tied to the completion of the story is very rare. The collection was just an ancillary task. > > > > Even this reply indicates that you are misreading. On a few points actually, but I feel like we should get the first one straight before moving on . . . > > I’m reading exactly what you wrote. Just because you disagree with what I’m saying doesn’t mean that I’m misreading. Otherwise, I could just say that you’re misreading me but that would get us nowhere. > > If there’s confusion somewhere then please point it out. I say you are misreading bc you are quoting something then saying it says something that it doesn't say. While replies from others indicate that my meaning was understood by some, I'm willing to believe yours is an honest mistake first bc someone else made it as well but second bc it takes two ppl to miscommunicate. So I am happy to explain it as many times as you feel necessary . . . The post you quoted does not say ppl quit the game. It says ppl stopped playing the game, and the specific part of the game they stopped playing was this story content. Those are not at all equivalents . . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ayrilana.1396 Posted October 25, 2018 Share Posted October 25, 2018 > @"Gop.8713" said: > > @"Ayrilana.1396" said: > > > @"Gop.8713" said: > > > > @"Ayrilana.1396" said: > > > > > @"Gop.8713" said: > > > > > > @"Ayrilana.1396" said: > > > > > > > @"Gop.8713" said: > > > > > > > > @"Ayrilana.1396" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Gop.8713" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Ayrilana.1396" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Gop.8713" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Ayrilana.1396" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Gop.8713" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Ayrilana.1396" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Gop.8713" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Haleydawn.3764" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Gop.8713" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"yann.1946" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And I can totally use that argument against you to why would a sigil being expensive be unhealthy? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bc it made ppl stop playing the game . . . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Source? (Outside of a mate of a mate guild member outright doesn't login and has said it is unequivocally because of the Convergence of Sorrow: Requiem.) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think you misunderstood. I didn't say quit the game, I said stop playing the game, and expanded upon what content I was referring to in the rest of the post. I am a bit offended to discover that you feel the ppl I play with don't matter though . . . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And had they been able to complete the collection at a price that they felt reasonable they’d still have stopped playing the game anyway. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To me, players completing content and players giving up on content before completing it are opposites not analogues . . . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > They’re two things that result in the same outcome as you described. You can put them as opposites of whatever spectrum you created but it still wouldn’t change that. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Edit: Actually that assumes that they had anything to do with that outcome coming into realization in the first place. People stop playing content for various reasons. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Completing something and giving up on it are the same thing bc you're done with it either way? Your position seems absurd, can you confirm that you did not misstate it . . ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Those are not opposites of each other. In no way did I ever say that they were the same. There are a multitude of reasons that players could stop playing content. Having completed the content or giving up on it are but two of them. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Players that stopped playing the game over the sigils and not being able to complete the collection likely would have done the same thing had they been able to. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In the first case content was created and enjoyed by the player, in the other case content was created and not enjoyed by the player. While it is true that both cases result in players no longer playing the content, enjoying/not enjoying and completing/not completing are in fact opposites. This is relevant bc it is the goal of a gaming company to create content that their players enjoy . . . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Edit: Re-doing post > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You brought up the assertion that people stopped playing the game because of the collection with the sigils. There are many reasons that people stop playing the game. Whether they had completed the collection or not most likely would not have been an influencing factor in this. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Among those reasons that could lead people to stop playing the game, there are bound to be opposites; it’s inevitable. The fact that there are opposites doesn’t matter. You can find opposites in everything depending on how hard you look or twist things. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Can't tell if you're forgetful or just trolling, so let's recap (or you can just go back and reread the original posts, if you prefer). Someone asked me how this issue with the sigils was unhealthy for the game. I pointed out it was unhealthy for the game bc it made ppl stop playing, then specifically pointed out that I was referring to this particular story. A second person replied to my explanation and indicated that they had misread that as players quitting the game entirely, so I clarified again that I was only referring to the content I described in the original post. You quoted this second explanation, so presumably you had read what you quoted and understood what I was referring to, and you replied that they would have stopped playing anyway, once they finished the content. I said that wasn't a good analogy bc completing something and giving up on it are opposites. You said doesn't matter bc same outcome, I said that was absurd, and now you're saying whether they completed the content or not has no bearing on whether they would stop playing it . . ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think you may have lost the train of thought somewhere along in there . . . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The reason that stopping after completion and stopping before completion being opposite is impt is bc they literally define success or failure, for both the player and the content, as indicated in the post you've quoted for your most recent reply. You don't have to look hard or twist anything to notice that success and failure are opposites . . . > > > > > > > > > > > > You said the sigil being expensive made players stop playing the game. The other poster said “quit” but you disputed that even though they’re the same thing. I responded by saying that people who stopped/quit because of the collection would have done the same anyway. There are many reasons beyond just that collection as to why people stop playing. You then spun it onto something about opposites. > > > > > > > > > > > > While those two possible reasons are opposites it doesn’t change what I said that people still would have stopped playing regardless. That was also assuming that those two reasons were the cause in the first place. There’s likely more to it than simply stopping from playing the game over a very minor collection. > > > > > > > > > > I feel your reading is inconsistent with what I posted . . . > > > > > > > > Nope. Just read over everything again. > > > > > > > > You also assumed the collection was the major point of the episode and not being able to do it because of the high cost sigils meant players had no reason to do the episode. > > > > > > > > > So if the situation with the superior sigil of nullification caused ppl to look at the story and say 'nope, not doing that', that is a negative, unhealthy outcome for the game . . . > > > > > > > > There are plenty of reasons to do the episodes as having collections tied to the completion of the story is very rare. The collection was just an ancillary task. > > > > > > Even this reply indicates that you are misreading. On a few points actually, but I feel like we should get the first one straight before moving on . . . > > > > I’m reading exactly what you wrote. Just because you disagree with what I’m saying doesn’t mean that I’m misreading. Otherwise, I could just say that you’re misreading me but that would get us nowhere. > > > > If there’s confusion somewhere then please point it out. > > I say you are misreading bc you are quoting something then saying it says something that it doesn't say. While replies from others indicate that my meaning was understood by some, I'm willing to believe yours is an honest mistake first bc someone else made it as well but second bc it takes two ppl to miscommunicate. So I am happy to explain it as many times as you feel necessary . . . > > The post you quoted does not say ppl quit the game. It says ppl stopped playing the game, and the specific part of the game they stopped playing was this story content. Those are not at all equivalents . . . And the difference between “stop playing the game” and “quit play the game” is? And regardless of that, does it have any bearing on what I said about players would not be playing the game anyway had they been able to acquire the sigils at a cheaper price? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gop.8713 Posted October 25, 2018 Share Posted October 25, 2018 > @"Ayrilana.1396" said: > > @"Gop.8713" said: > > > @"Ayrilana.1396" said: > > > > @"Gop.8713" said: > > > > > @"Ayrilana.1396" said: > > > > > > @"Gop.8713" said: > > > > > > > @"Ayrilana.1396" said: > > > > > > > > @"Gop.8713" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Ayrilana.1396" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Gop.8713" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Ayrilana.1396" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Gop.8713" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Ayrilana.1396" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Gop.8713" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Ayrilana.1396" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Gop.8713" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Haleydawn.3764" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Gop.8713" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"yann.1946" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And I can totally use that argument against you to why would a sigil being expensive be unhealthy? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bc it made ppl stop playing the game . . . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Source? (Outside of a mate of a mate guild member outright doesn't login and has said it is unequivocally because of the Convergence of Sorrow: Requiem.) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think you misunderstood. I didn't say quit the game, I said stop playing the game, and expanded upon what content I was referring to in the rest of the post. I am a bit offended to discover that you feel the ppl I play with don't matter though . . . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And had they been able to complete the collection at a price that they felt reasonable they’d still have stopped playing the game anyway. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To me, players completing content and players giving up on content before completing it are opposites not analogues . . . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > They’re two things that result in the same outcome as you described. You can put them as opposites of whatever spectrum you created but it still wouldn’t change that. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Edit: Actually that assumes that they had anything to do with that outcome coming into realization in the first place. People stop playing content for various reasons. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Completing something and giving up on it are the same thing bc you're done with it either way? Your position seems absurd, can you confirm that you did not misstate it . . ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Those are not opposites of each other. In no way did I ever say that they were the same. There are a multitude of reasons that players could stop playing content. Having completed the content or giving up on it are but two of them. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Players that stopped playing the game over the sigils and not being able to complete the collection likely would have done the same thing had they been able to. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In the first case content was created and enjoyed by the player, in the other case content was created and not enjoyed by the player. While it is true that both cases result in players no longer playing the content, enjoying/not enjoying and completing/not completing are in fact opposites. This is relevant bc it is the goal of a gaming company to create content that their players enjoy . . . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Edit: Re-doing post > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You brought up the assertion that people stopped playing the game because of the collection with the sigils. There are many reasons that people stop playing the game. Whether they had completed the collection or not most likely would not have been an influencing factor in this. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Among those reasons that could lead people to stop playing the game, there are bound to be opposites; it’s inevitable. The fact that there are opposites doesn’t matter. You can find opposites in everything depending on how hard you look or twist things. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Can't tell if you're forgetful or just trolling, so let's recap (or you can just go back and reread the original posts, if you prefer). Someone asked me how this issue with the sigils was unhealthy for the game. I pointed out it was unhealthy for the game bc it made ppl stop playing, then specifically pointed out that I was referring to this particular story. A second person replied to my explanation and indicated that they had misread that as players quitting the game entirely, so I clarified again that I was only referring to the content I described in the original post. You quoted this second explanation, so presumably you had read what you quoted and understood what I was referring to, and you replied that they would have stopped playing anyway, once they finished the content. I said that wasn't a good analogy bc completing something and giving up on it are opposites. You said doesn't matter bc same outcome, I said that was absurd, and now you're saying whether they completed the content or not has no bearing on whether they would stop playing it . . ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think you may have lost the train of thought somewhere along in there . . . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The reason that stopping after completion and stopping before completion being opposite is impt is bc they literally define success or failure, for both the player and the content, as indicated in the post you've quoted for your most recent reply. You don't have to look hard or twist anything to notice that success and failure are opposites . . . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You said the sigil being expensive made players stop playing the game. The other poster said “quit” but you disputed that even though they’re the same thing. I responded by saying that people who stopped/quit because of the collection would have done the same anyway. There are many reasons beyond just that collection as to why people stop playing. You then spun it onto something about opposites. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > While those two possible reasons are opposites it doesn’t change what I said that people still would have stopped playing regardless. That was also assuming that those two reasons were the cause in the first place. There’s likely more to it than simply stopping from playing the game over a very minor collection. > > > > > > > > > > > > I feel your reading is inconsistent with what I posted . . . > > > > > > > > > > Nope. Just read over everything again. > > > > > > > > > > You also assumed the collection was the major point of the episode and not being able to do it because of the high cost sigils meant players had no reason to do the episode. > > > > > > > > > > > So if the situation with the superior sigil of nullification caused ppl to look at the story and say 'nope, not doing that', that is a negative, unhealthy outcome for the game . . . > > > > > > > > > > There are plenty of reasons to do the episodes as having collections tied to the completion of the story is very rare. The collection was just an ancillary task. > > > > > > > > Even this reply indicates that you are misreading. On a few points actually, but I feel like we should get the first one straight before moving on . . . > > > > > > I’m reading exactly what you wrote. Just because you disagree with what I’m saying doesn’t mean that I’m misreading. Otherwise, I could just say that you’re misreading me but that would get us nowhere. > > > > > > If there’s confusion somewhere then please point it out. > > > > I say you are misreading bc you are quoting something then saying it says something that it doesn't say. While replies from others indicate that my meaning was understood by some, I'm willing to believe yours is an honest mistake first bc someone else made it as well but second bc it takes two ppl to miscommunicate. So I am happy to explain it as many times as you feel necessary . . . > > > > The post you quoted does not say ppl quit the game. It says ppl stopped playing the game, and the specific part of the game they stopped playing was this story content. Those are not at all equivalents . . . > > And the difference between “stop playing the game” and “quit play the game” is? In the one case a player continues playing the game but avoids the unpleasant content, in the other case the player no longer plays the game. While I agree those are both negative, unhealthy outcomes for the game the second would seem like a gross overreaction and I am not aware of anyone having that reaction. These are the reasons that the distinction is important . . . > And regardless of that, does it have any bearing on what I said about players would not be playing the game anyway had they been able to acquire the sigils at a cheaper price? We're getting there, I just want to make sure we're starting from the same spot. Can you confirm that you now understand the distinction above and its importance to the issue at hand . . ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ayrilana.1396 Posted October 25, 2018 Share Posted October 25, 2018 > @"Gop.8713" said: > > @"Ayrilana.1396" said: > > > @"Gop.8713" said: > > > > @"Ayrilana.1396" said: > > > > > @"Gop.8713" said: > > > > > > @"Ayrilana.1396" said: > > > > > > > @"Gop.8713" said: > > > > > > > > @"Ayrilana.1396" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Gop.8713" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Ayrilana.1396" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Gop.8713" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Ayrilana.1396" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Gop.8713" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Ayrilana.1396" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Gop.8713" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Ayrilana.1396" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Gop.8713" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Haleydawn.3764" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Gop.8713" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"yann.1946" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And I can totally use that argument against you to why would a sigil being expensive be unhealthy? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bc it made ppl stop playing the game . . . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Source? (Outside of a mate of a mate guild member outright doesn't login and has said it is unequivocally because of the Convergence of Sorrow: Requiem.) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think you misunderstood. I didn't say quit the game, I said stop playing the game, and expanded upon what content I was referring to in the rest of the post. I am a bit offended to discover that you feel the ppl I play with don't matter though . . . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And had they been able to complete the collection at a price that they felt reasonable they’d still have stopped playing the game anyway. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To me, players completing content and players giving up on content before completing it are opposites not analogues . . . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > They’re two things that result in the same outcome as you described. You can put them as opposites of whatever spectrum you created but it still wouldn’t change that. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Edit: Actually that assumes that they had anything to do with that outcome coming into realization in the first place. People stop playing content for various reasons. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Completing something and giving up on it are the same thing bc you're done with it either way? Your position seems absurd, can you confirm that you did not misstate it . . ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Those are not opposites of each other. In no way did I ever say that they were the same. There are a multitude of reasons that players could stop playing content. Having completed the content or giving up on it are but two of them. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Players that stopped playing the game over the sigils and not being able to complete the collection likely would have done the same thing had they been able to. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In the first case content was created and enjoyed by the player, in the other case content was created and not enjoyed by the player. While it is true that both cases result in players no longer playing the content, enjoying/not enjoying and completing/not completing are in fact opposites. This is relevant bc it is the goal of a gaming company to create content that their players enjoy . . . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Edit: Re-doing post > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You brought up the assertion that people stopped playing the game because of the collection with the sigils. There are many reasons that people stop playing the game. Whether they had completed the collection or not most likely would not have been an influencing factor in this. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Among those reasons that could lead people to stop playing the game, there are bound to be opposites; it’s inevitable. The fact that there are opposites doesn’t matter. You can find opposites in everything depending on how hard you look or twist things. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Can't tell if you're forgetful or just trolling, so let's recap (or you can just go back and reread the original posts, if you prefer). Someone asked me how this issue with the sigils was unhealthy for the game. I pointed out it was unhealthy for the game bc it made ppl stop playing, then specifically pointed out that I was referring to this particular story. A second person replied to my explanation and indicated that they had misread that as players quitting the game entirely, so I clarified again that I was only referring to the content I described in the original post. You quoted this second explanation, so presumably you had read what you quoted and understood what I was referring to, and you replied that they would have stopped playing anyway, once they finished the content. I said that wasn't a good analogy bc completing something and giving up on it are opposites. You said doesn't matter bc same outcome, I said that was absurd, and now you're saying whether they completed the content or not has no bearing on whether they would stop playing it . . ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think you may have lost the train of thought somewhere along in there . . . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The reason that stopping after completion and stopping before completion being opposite is impt is bc they literally define success or failure, for both the player and the content, as indicated in the post you've quoted for your most recent reply. You don't have to look hard or twist anything to notice that success and failure are opposites . . . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You said the sigil being expensive made players stop playing the game. The other poster said “quit” but you disputed that even though they’re the same thing. I responded by saying that people who stopped/quit because of the collection would have done the same anyway. There are many reasons beyond just that collection as to why people stop playing. You then spun it onto something about opposites. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > While those two possible reasons are opposites it doesn’t change what I said that people still would have stopped playing regardless. That was also assuming that those two reasons were the cause in the first place. There’s likely more to it than simply stopping from playing the game over a very minor collection. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I feel your reading is inconsistent with what I posted . . . > > > > > > > > > > > > Nope. Just read over everything again. > > > > > > > > > > > > You also assumed the collection was the major point of the episode and not being able to do it because of the high cost sigils meant players had no reason to do the episode. > > > > > > > > > > > > > So if the situation with the superior sigil of nullification caused ppl to look at the story and say 'nope, not doing that', that is a negative, unhealthy outcome for the game . . . > > > > > > > > > > > > There are plenty of reasons to do the episodes as having collections tied to the completion of the story is very rare. The collection was just an ancillary task. > > > > > > > > > > Even this reply indicates that you are misreading. On a few points actually, but I feel like we should get the first one straight before moving on . . . > > > > > > > > I’m reading exactly what you wrote. Just because you disagree with what I’m saying doesn’t mean that I’m misreading. Otherwise, I could just say that you’re misreading me but that would get us nowhere. > > > > > > > > If there’s confusion somewhere then please point it out. > > > > > > I say you are misreading bc you are quoting something then saying it says something that it doesn't say. While replies from others indicate that my meaning was understood by some, I'm willing to believe yours is an honest mistake first bc someone else made it as well but second bc it takes two ppl to miscommunicate. So I am happy to explain it as many times as you feel necessary . . . > > > > > > The post you quoted does not say ppl quit the game. It says ppl stopped playing the game, and the specific part of the game they stopped playing was this story content. Those are not at all equivalents . . . > > > > And the difference between “stop playing the game” and “quit play the game” is? > In the one case a player continues playing the game but avoids the unpleasant content, in the other case the player no longer plays the game. While I agree those are both negative, unhealthy outcomes for the game the second would seem like a gross overreaction and I am not aware of anyone having that reaction. These are the reasons that the distinction is important . . . > > And regardless of that, does it have any bearing on what I said about players would not be playing the game anyway had they been able to acquire the sigils at a cheaper price? > We're getting there, I just want to make sure we're starting from the same spot. Can you confirm that you now understand the distinction above and its importance to the issue at hand . . ? The distinction above makes sense when you ignore the phrasing you used to describe it. You describe “stop playing the game” as someone that’s playing the game but avoiding unpleasant content. How can they stop playing the game but still be playing the game? Also, would PvE players be considered having stopped playing the game if they avoid sPvP and WvW because they find it unpleasant? So that’s where some of the confusion is coming from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randulf.7614 Posted October 26, 2018 Share Posted October 26, 2018 Has there been any official comment at all, even to say they are happy with it as is? I havent followed the thread since it spiralled off massively track, but it still seems an unfortunate situation to be in with this particular item. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Linken.6345 Posted October 26, 2018 Share Posted October 26, 2018 > @"Randulf.7614" said: > Has there been any official comment at all, even to say they are happy with it as is? I havent followed the thread since it spiralled off massively track, but it still seems an unfortunate situation to be in with this particular item. Nope nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gop.8713 Posted October 26, 2018 Share Posted October 26, 2018 > @"Ayrilana.1396" said: > > @"Gop.8713" said: > > > @"Ayrilana.1396" said: > > > > @"Gop.8713" said: > > > > > @"Ayrilana.1396" said: > > > > > > @"Gop.8713" said: > > > > > > > @"Ayrilana.1396" said: > > > > > > > > @"Gop.8713" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Ayrilana.1396" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Gop.8713" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Ayrilana.1396" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Gop.8713" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Ayrilana.1396" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Gop.8713" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Ayrilana.1396" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Gop.8713" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Ayrilana.1396" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Gop.8713" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Haleydawn.3764" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Gop.8713" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"yann.1946" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And I can totally use that argument against you to why would a sigil being expensive be unhealthy? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bc it made ppl stop playing the game . . . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Source? (Outside of a mate of a mate guild member outright doesn't login and has said it is unequivocally because of the Convergence of Sorrow: Requiem.) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think you misunderstood. I didn't say quit the game, I said stop playing the game, and expanded upon what content I was referring to in the rest of the post. I am a bit offended to discover that you feel the ppl I play with don't matter though . . . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And had they been able to complete the collection at a price that they felt reasonable they’d still have stopped playing the game anyway. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To me, players completing content and players giving up on content before completing it are opposites not analogues . . . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > They’re two things that result in the same outcome as you described. You can put them as opposites of whatever spectrum you created but it still wouldn’t change that. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Edit: Actually that assumes that they had anything to do with that outcome coming into realization in the first place. People stop playing content for various reasons. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Completing something and giving up on it are the same thing bc you're done with it either way? Your position seems absurd, can you confirm that you did not misstate it . . ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Those are not opposites of each other. In no way did I ever say that they were the same. There are a multitude of reasons that players could stop playing content. Having completed the content or giving up on it are but two of them. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Players that stopped playing the game over the sigils and not being able to complete the collection likely would have done the same thing had they been able to. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In the first case content was created and enjoyed by the player, in the other case content was created and not enjoyed by the player. While it is true that both cases result in players no longer playing the content, enjoying/not enjoying and completing/not completing are in fact opposites. This is relevant bc it is the goal of a gaming company to create content that their players enjoy . . . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Edit: Re-doing post > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You brought up the assertion that people stopped playing the game because of the collection with the sigils. There are many reasons that people stop playing the game. Whether they had completed the collection or not most likely would not have been an influencing factor in this. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Among those reasons that could lead people to stop playing the game, there are bound to be opposites; it’s inevitable. The fact that there are opposites doesn’t matter. You can find opposites in everything depending on how hard you look or twist things. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Can't tell if you're forgetful or just trolling, so let's recap (or you can just go back and reread the original posts, if you prefer). Someone asked me how this issue with the sigils was unhealthy for the game. I pointed out it was unhealthy for the game bc it made ppl stop playing, then specifically pointed out that I was referring to this particular story. A second person replied to my explanation and indicated that they had misread that as players quitting the game entirely, so I clarified again that I was only referring to the content I described in the original post. You quoted this second explanation, so presumably you had read what you quoted and understood what I was referring to, and you replied that they would have stopped playing anyway, once they finished the content. I said that wasn't a good analogy bc completing something and giving up on it are opposites. You said doesn't matter bc same outcome, I said that was absurd, and now you're saying whether they completed the content or not has no bearing on whether they would stop playing it . . ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think you may have lost the train of thought somewhere along in there . . . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The reason that stopping after completion and stopping before completion being opposite is impt is bc they literally define success or failure, for both the player and the content, as indicated in the post you've quoted for your most recent reply. You don't have to look hard or twist anything to notice that success and failure are opposites . . . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You said the sigil being expensive made players stop playing the game. The other poster said “quit” but you disputed that even though they’re the same thing. I responded by saying that people who stopped/quit because of the collection would have done the same anyway. There are many reasons beyond just that collection as to why people stop playing. You then spun it onto something about opposites. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > While those two possible reasons are opposites it doesn’t change what I said that people still would have stopped playing regardless. That was also assuming that those two reasons were the cause in the first place. There’s likely more to it than simply stopping from playing the game over a very minor collection. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I feel your reading is inconsistent with what I posted . . . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nope. Just read over everything again. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You also assumed the collection was the major point of the episode and not being able to do it because of the high cost sigils meant players had no reason to do the episode. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So if the situation with the superior sigil of nullification caused ppl to look at the story and say 'nope, not doing that', that is a negative, unhealthy outcome for the game . . . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There are plenty of reasons to do the episodes as having collections tied to the completion of the story is very rare. The collection was just an ancillary task. > > > > > > > > > > > > Even this reply indicates that you are misreading. On a few points actually, but I feel like we should get the first one straight before moving on . . . > > > > > > > > > > I’m reading exactly what you wrote. Just because you disagree with what I’m saying doesn’t mean that I’m misreading. Otherwise, I could just say that you’re misreading me but that would get us nowhere. > > > > > > > > > > If there’s confusion somewhere then please point it out. > > > > > > > > I say you are misreading bc you are quoting something then saying it says something that it doesn't say. While replies from others indicate that my meaning was understood by some, I'm willing to believe yours is an honest mistake first bc someone else made it as well but second bc it takes two ppl to miscommunicate. So I am happy to explain it as many times as you feel necessary . . . > > > > > > > > The post you quoted does not say ppl quit the game. It says ppl stopped playing the game, and the specific part of the game they stopped playing was this story content. Those are not at all equivalents . . . > > > > > > And the difference between “stop playing the game” and “quit play the game” is? > > In the one case a player continues playing the game but avoids the unpleasant content, in the other case the player no longer plays the game. While I agree those are both negative, unhealthy outcomes for the game the second would seem like a gross overreaction and I am not aware of anyone having that reaction. These are the reasons that the distinction is important . . . > > > And regardless of that, does it have any bearing on what I said about players would not be playing the game anyway had they been able to acquire the sigils at a cheaper price? > > We're getting there, I just want to make sure we're starting from the same spot. Can you confirm that you now understand the distinction above and its importance to the issue at hand . . ? > > The distinction above makes sense when you ignore the phrasing you used to describe it. You describe “stop playing the game” as someone that’s playing the game but avoiding unpleasant content. How can they stop playing the game but still be playing the game? Also, would PvE players be considered having stopped playing the game if they avoid sPvP and WvW because they find it unpleasant? > > So that’s where some of the confusion is coming from. Okay, great. I feel that the post taken as a whole made the original intent clear but I certainly understand that if someone read only the first line of the first post it would be easily misunderstood. It seemed clear that you had read the entirety of the first post and the subsequent, clarifying post, so I wasn't sure if you really misunderstood or were just screwing with me. Regardless of fault, now that the confusion has been cleared up I hope you can see why the distinction is impt and we can move on . . . > @"Ayrilana.1396" said: > You also assumed the collection was the major point of the episode I'm not sure what you're saying I assumed, so I'll take each part separately . . : I did not assume the collection was the major point of the episode. I do maintain the collection is a major part of the episode, but this is not an assumption. It was a highly touted element of the release in pre-release promotional material, a significant portion of the episode's ap budget was dedicated to the collection, it additionally rewards a title, armor, skins and counts towards completion of the episodes meta achievement, as well as being interwoven with the Sun's Refuge content, another major part of the episode. So I did not make this assumption, anet itself considered this collection a major point of the episode . . . > and not being able to do it meant players had no reason to do the episode. I did not assume players not being able to complete the collection meant that they did not have any reason to play the unrelated parts of the episode. I didn't even claim this in order to be able to assume it. I do claim that players were so turned off to the situation with the sigils that they no longer wanted to continue with the content, whether it be the entire episode or only the parts associated with the collection. But note that by the time most players reach the part of the collection that requires the sigils they would have completed most of the rest of the episode already. And again, this claim is not an assumption. If you have not encountered any of these players in the game yourself, you can read many of their posts in this very thread . . . >because of the high cost sigils I did not assume players were prevented from completing the collection by the high price of the sigils. Anyone could have made enough gold in the month plus since the episode has been released to purchase the sigils at even their peak price, assuming the supply held out. This fact is among the strongest evidence that the price of the sigils is not the issue, despite those who continue to insist that it is. It is true the person I replied to asked me why the high price of the sigils was unhealthy for the game and I replied explaining why the situation with the sigils is unhealthy for the game without correcting them, but only bc the error was irrelevant to the question they were asking. The price is the product of a lack of supply, and explaining this again didn't seem impt to answering the question they were asking . . . Now if all that is straight -- and again, if any of it is not pls do let me know, still happy to continue explaining -- I can come back to your original question . . : >If players stopped-quit playing the game over the sigil price, chances are they wouldn’t have been playing had the sigil been at a price they found reasonable. Players tend to stop playing when they have a lack of things they want to do. I think if all of the above is clear this is probably obvious, but players that completed the content may move on with a positive feeling towards it, if they enjoyed it. They will want to play the game more, look forward to future content, revisit past content, tell their friends and neighbors how great the game is and how they should play it with them too, etc. More ppl playing and more ppl enjoying the game are healthy for the game bc that is what the game is there for, to keep ppl coming back, and preferably in large numbers . . . Players who left the content with resentment over the sigils did not leave with a positive feeling towards it. It is doubtful they would quit the game over it but it will always be a negative memory, which lasts. Different things impact different players differently but I would say it's really seldom anet screws something up this big this badly, easily less than once a year since the game's release on average. That is a remarkably good record. Yet when this situation developed one of the first impacts on me was it reminded me of those few occasions in the past when similar mistakes were made, and I am not unique. That is a negative, unhealthy result . . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gop.8713 Posted October 26, 2018 Share Posted October 26, 2018 > @"Linken.6345" said: > > @"Randulf.7614" said: > > Has there been any official comment at all, even to say they are happy with it as is? I havent followed the thread since it spiralled off massively track, but it still seems an unfortunate situation to be in with this particular item. > > Nope nothing. It's one of the most disappointing parts of it, really. Ideally they would have introduced an additional supply of the sigil as soon as the problem developed, at least by the Tuesday patch. I think the Halloween patch would have been maybe too late, but I know a lot of ppl were hoping for it . . . But any response, whether 'working on it' or just 'sry it's out there now we can't turn back the clock' would have gone a long way. Even a 'this was our plan all along mwahaha' would have been a fitting sentiment for the season at least :p Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Alymer.3406 Posted October 26, 2018 Share Posted October 26, 2018 I completed all story and everything in the new instance along with all the achievements aside from the final few requiem pieces. Requiem armor, specifically the pieces that require nullification sigils, aren't involved in the story or epilogue of the story for the instance what-so-ever. It's some dialogue between your PC and a priory member. The outrage from the way this armor is set up is quite silly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gop.8713 Posted October 26, 2018 Share Posted October 26, 2018 > @"Sir Alymer.3406" said: > I completed all story and everything in the new instance along with all the achievements aside from the final few requiem pieces. Requiem armor, specifically the pieces that require nullification sigils, aren't involved in the story or epilogue of the story for the instance what-so-ever. It's some dialogue between your PC and a priory member. The outrage from the way this armor is set up is quite silly A cursory glance through the thread indicates yours is not the only perspective . . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Alymer.3406 Posted October 26, 2018 Share Posted October 26, 2018 > @"Gop.8713" said: > > @"Sir Alymer.3406" said: > > I completed all story and everything in the new instance along with all the achievements aside from the final few requiem pieces. Requiem armor, specifically the pieces that require nullification sigils, aren't involved in the story or epilogue of the story for the instance what-so-ever. It's some dialogue between your PC and a priory member. The outrage from the way this armor is set up is quite silly > > A cursory glance through the thread indicates yours is not the only perspective . . . A cursory glance through the thread are people complaining about how it locks them out of story when it doesn't, how the nullification sigils aren't capable of being gathered when SW farming has a higher chance of yielding weapons with nullification sigils due to the loot containers in there, and a lot of arguing over how this caused people to leave the game or some other garbage.. The only valid argument I've seen so far is that it should have either been a flat price like the griffon or tied to something far more elastic, like a craftable sigil or rune. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gop.8713 Posted October 26, 2018 Share Posted October 26, 2018 > @"Sir Alymer.3406" said: > > @"Gop.8713" said: > > > @"Sir Alymer.3406" said: > > > I completed all story and everything in the new instance along with all the achievements aside from the final few requiem pieces. Requiem armor, specifically the pieces that require nullification sigils, aren't involved in the story or epilogue of the story for the instance what-so-ever. It's some dialogue between your PC and a priory member. The outrage from the way this armor is set up is quite silly > > > > A cursory glance through the thread indicates yours is not the only perspective . . . > > A cursory glance through the thread are people complaining about how it locks them out of story when it doesn't, how the nullification sigils aren't capable of being gathered when SW farming has a higher chance of yielding weapons with nullification sigils due to the loot containers in there, and a lot of arguing over how this caused people to leave the game or some other garbage.. The only valid argument I've seen so far is that it should have either been a flat price like the griffon or tied to something far more elastic, like a craftable sigil or rune. So what you meant to say was that you disagreed with some objections and not others . . . I think there's pretty strong evidence that this qualifies as part of the story, but if you want to disagree you're entitled to do so, no complaints . . . I disagree that relying on rng for drops is a sufficiently reliable source of supply . . . The contention that ppl left the game over this was a misunderstanding that has hopefully been cleared up . . . I agree that a flat price vendor item would have been a better solution . . . I agree that something that gave players more control over supply would have also been a better solution, and probably the best solution after the fact . . . So we're about 50/50 then, or better :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yann.1946 Posted October 26, 2018 Share Posted October 26, 2018 > @"Gop.8713" said: > > @"Sir Alymer.3406" said: > > > @"Gop.8713" said: > > > > @"Sir Alymer.3406" said: > > > > I completed all story and everything in the new instance along with all the achievements aside from the final few requiem pieces. Requiem armor, specifically the pieces that require nullification sigils, aren't involved in the story or epilogue of the story for the instance what-so-ever. It's some dialogue between your PC and a priory member. The outrage from the way this armor is set up is quite silly > > > > > > A cursory glance through the thread indicates yours is not the only perspective . . . > > > > A cursory glance through the thread are people complaining about how it locks them out of story when it doesn't, how the nullification sigils aren't capable of being gathered when SW farming has a higher chance of yielding weapons with nullification sigils due to the loot containers in there, and a lot of arguing over how this caused people to leave the game or some other garbage.. The only valid argument I've seen so far is that it should have either been a flat price like the griffon or tied to something far more elastic, like a craftable sigil or rune. > > I disagree that relying on rng for drops is a sufficiently reliable source of supply . . . > We'll not sufficiently reliable source for a single person, RNG drops might be sufficiently reliable for the community in general depending on the droprates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gop.8713 Posted October 26, 2018 Share Posted October 26, 2018 > @"yann.1946" said: > > @"Gop.8713" said: > > > @"Sir Alymer.3406" said: > > > > @"Gop.8713" said: > > > > > @"Sir Alymer.3406" said: > > > > > I completed all story and everything in the new instance along with all the achievements aside from the final few requiem pieces. Requiem armor, specifically the pieces that require nullification sigils, aren't involved in the story or epilogue of the story for the instance what-so-ever. It's some dialogue between your PC and a priory member. The outrage from the way this armor is set up is quite silly > > > > > > > > A cursory glance through the thread indicates yours is not the only perspective . . . > > > > > > A cursory glance through the thread are people complaining about how it locks them out of story when it doesn't, how the nullification sigils aren't capable of being gathered when SW farming has a higher chance of yielding weapons with nullification sigils due to the loot containers in there, and a lot of arguing over how this caused people to leave the game or some other garbage.. The only valid argument I've seen so far is that it should have either been a flat price like the griffon or tied to something far more elastic, like a craftable sigil or rune. > > > > I disagree that relying on rng for drops is a sufficiently reliable source of supply . . . > > > > We'll not sufficiently reliable source for a single person, RNG drops might be sufficiently reliable for the community in general depending on the droprates. But those would have to be funneled through the tp, and unfortunately the tp is tainted as a source to many players due to the exploitation that was permitted during the first few days of the collection :/ Tbh I felt like a stealth buff to exotics that carry the sigil was one of the more likely fixes, but I don't think the numbers bear that out afaik . . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloodstealer.5978 Posted October 26, 2018 Share Posted October 26, 2018 > @"Randulf.7614" said: > Has there been any official comment at all, even to say they are happy with it as is? I havent followed the thread since it spiralled off massively track, but it still seems an unfortunate situation to be in with this particular item. What would you expect ANET to say at this point that. Your right though there has been alot of deflection throughout the thread to take it off track... which now sees it centre around bickering of terminology even though it is clear the poster doing the bickering understands what the poster is saying or has tried to say... the art of deflection is strong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloodstealer.5978 Posted October 26, 2018 Share Posted October 26, 2018 > @"yann.1946" said: > > @"Gop.8713" said: > > > @"Sir Alymer.3406" said: > > > > @"Gop.8713" said: > > > > > @"Sir Alymer.3406" said: > > > > > I completed all story and everything in the new instance along with all the achievements aside from the final few requiem pieces. Requiem armor, specifically the pieces that require nullification sigils, aren't involved in the story or epilogue of the story for the instance what-so-ever. It's some dialogue between your PC and a priory member. The outrage from the way this armor is set up is quite silly > > > > > > > > A cursory glance through the thread indicates yours is not the only perspective . . . > > > > > > A cursory glance through the thread are people complaining about how it locks them out of story when it doesn't, how the nullification sigils aren't capable of being gathered when SW farming has a higher chance of yielding weapons with nullification sigils due to the loot containers in there, and a lot of arguing over how this caused people to leave the game or some other garbage.. The only valid argument I've seen so far is that it should have either been a flat price like the griffon or tied to something far more elastic, like a craftable sigil or rune. > > > > I disagree that relying on rng for drops is a sufficiently reliable source of supply . . . > > > > We'll not sufficiently reliable source for a single person, RNG drops might be sufficiently reliable for the community in general depending on the droprates. RNG should never be seen ascthe reliable source ..RNG can be manipulated behind the scene just by a tweek to its algorithm. Let's just assume we all had a few thousand major sigil to chuck I the toilet today... what would you consider a reliable supply from your stash to be and how would you expect that to compare to the next player.... especially when you consider your not just needing one lucky dice roll per flush you require two in order to get a single sigil. Just to land an exotic weapon from a drop varies wildly from plqyercto player then it's got to be the appropriate weapon with the correct sigil and then you have to ensure you have a BL salvage kit handy or you have a further layer of luck to overcome. Whichever way you look at it there would be too much disparity in luck for RNG to be considered a reliable source of the sigil imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gop.8713 Posted October 26, 2018 Share Posted October 26, 2018 > @"Bloodstealer.5978" said: > > @"yann.1946" said: > > > @"Gop.8713" said: > > > > @"Sir Alymer.3406" said: > > > > > @"Gop.8713" said: > > > > > > @"Sir Alymer.3406" said: > > > > > > I completed all story and everything in the new instance along with all the achievements aside from the final few requiem pieces. Requiem armor, specifically the pieces that require nullification sigils, aren't involved in the story or epilogue of the story for the instance what-so-ever. It's some dialogue between your PC and a priory member. The outrage from the way this armor is set up is quite silly > > > > > > > > > > A cursory glance through the thread indicates yours is not the only perspective . . . > > > > > > > > A cursory glance through the thread are people complaining about how it locks them out of story when it doesn't, how the nullification sigils aren't capable of being gathered when SW farming has a higher chance of yielding weapons with nullification sigils due to the loot containers in there, and a lot of arguing over how this caused people to leave the game or some other garbage.. The only valid argument I've seen so far is that it should have either been a flat price like the griffon or tied to something far more elastic, like a craftable sigil or rune. > > > > > > I disagree that relying on rng for drops is a sufficiently reliable source of supply . . . > > > > > > > We'll not sufficiently reliable source for a single person, RNG drops might be sufficiently reliable for the community in general depending on the droprates. > > RNG should never be seen ascthe reliable source ..RNG can be manipulated behind the scene just by a tweek to its algorithm. > Let's just assume we all had a few thousand major sigil to chuck I the toilet today... what would you consider a reliable supply from your stash to be and how would you expect that to compare to the next player.... especially when you consider your not just needing one lucky dice roll per flush you require two in order to get a single sigil. Just to land an exotic weapon from a drop varies wildly from plqyercto player then it's got to be the appropriate weapon with the correct sigil and then you have to ensure you have a BL salvage kit handy or you have a further layer of luck to overcome. > Whichever way you look at it there would be too much disparity in luck for RNG to be considered a reliable source of the sigil imo. I think what he's saying is it doesn't matter if you are lucky as long as the overall drop rate was sufficient across the entire population to create a sufficient supply of sigils, which is true . . . The problem is those sigils would have to be sold by the players that got them to the players that needed them, on the tp. What created this entire fiasco is that there were so few sigils on the tp to start with, and they were listed so cheaply that virtually the entire supply was sucked up for less than 600g and trickled back out for up to 20g each. The reason that was possible is once the supply on the tp was gone, players did not have any other way to reliably produce more sigils themselves, and so ppl got angry at 'flippers' and that anger persisted long after the flipped sigils had been relisted and sold . . . So trying to fix the issue through random drops sold on the tp would probably not be the best idea. That's if anet was considering a fix, which I agree they most likely are not . . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yann.1946 Posted October 26, 2018 Share Posted October 26, 2018 > @"Bloodstealer.5978" said: > > @"yann.1946" said: > > > @"Gop.8713" said: > > > > @"Sir Alymer.3406" said: > > > > > @"Gop.8713" said: > > > > > > @"Sir Alymer.3406" said: > > > > > > I completed all story and everything in the new instance along with all the achievements aside from the final few requiem pieces. Requiem armor, specifically the pieces that require nullification sigils, aren't involved in the story or epilogue of the story for the instance what-so-ever. It's some dialogue between your PC and a priory member. The outrage from the way this armor is set up is quite silly > > > > > > > > > > A cursory glance through the thread indicates yours is not the only perspective . . . > > > > > > > > A cursory glance through the thread are people complaining about how it locks them out of story when it doesn't, how the nullification sigils aren't capable of being gathered when SW farming has a higher chance of yielding weapons with nullification sigils due to the loot containers in there, and a lot of arguing over how this caused people to leave the game or some other garbage.. The only valid argument I've seen so far is that it should have either been a flat price like the griffon or tied to something far more elastic, like a craftable sigil or rune. > > > > > > I disagree that relying on rng for drops is a sufficiently reliable source of supply . . . > > > > > > > We'll not sufficiently reliable source for a single person, RNG drops might be sufficiently reliable for the community in general depending on the droprates. > > RNG should never be seen ascthe reliable source ..RNG can be manipulated behind the scene just by a tweek to its algorithm. > Let's just assume we all had a few thousand major sigil to chuck I the toilet today... what would you consider a reliable supply from your stash to be and how would you expect that to compare to the next player.... especially when you consider your not just needing one lucky dice roll per flush you require two in order to get a single sigil. Just to land an exotic weapon from a drop varies wildly from plqyercto player then it's got to be the appropriate weapon with the correct sigil and then you have to ensure you have a BL salvage kit handy or you have a further layer of luck to overcome. > Whichever way you look at it there would be too much disparity in luck for RNG to be considered a reliable source of the sigil imo. this is why i said not for the player but for the community. > @"Gop.8713" said: > > @"yann.1946" said: > > > @"Gop.8713" said: > > > > @"Sir Alymer.3406" said: > > > > > @"Gop.8713" said: > > > > > > @"Sir Alymer.3406" said: > > > > > > I completed all story and everything in the new instance along with all the achievements aside from the final few requiem pieces. Requiem armor, specifically the pieces that require nullification sigils, aren't involved in the story or epilogue of the story for the instance what-so-ever. It's some dialogue between your PC and a priory member. The outrage from the way this armor is set up is quite silly > > > > > > > > > > A cursory glance through the thread indicates yours is not the only perspective . . . > > > > > > > > A cursory glance through the thread are people complaining about how it locks them out of story when it doesn't, how the nullification sigils aren't capable of being gathered when SW farming has a higher chance of yielding weapons with nullification sigils due to the loot containers in there, and a lot of arguing over how this caused people to leave the game or some other garbage.. The only valid argument I've seen so far is that it should have either been a flat price like the griffon or tied to something far more elastic, like a craftable sigil or rune. > > > > > > I disagree that relying on rng for drops is a sufficiently reliable source of supply . . . > > > > > > > We'll not sufficiently reliable source for a single person, RNG drops might be sufficiently reliable for the community in general depending on the droprates. > > But those would have to be funneled through the tp, and unfortunately the tp is tainted as a source to many players due to the exploitation that was permitted during the first few days of the collection :/ > > Tbh I felt like a stealth buff to exotics that carry the sigil was one of the more likely fixes, but I don't think the numbers bear that out afaik . . . Because people think the price would be lower without the flipping? Or because they don't want to give gold to people they perceive as the cause of the high price? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gop.8713 Posted October 26, 2018 Share Posted October 26, 2018 > @"yann.1946" said: > > @"Gop.8713" said: > > > > But those would have to be funneled through the tp, and unfortunately the tp is tainted as a source to many players due to the exploitation that was permitted during the first few days of the collection :/ > > > > Tbh I felt like a stealth buff to exotics that carry the sigil was one of the more likely fixes, but I don't think the numbers bear that out afaik . . . > > Because people think the price would be lower without the flipping? > > Or because they don't want to give gold to people they perceive as the cause of the high price? I would say neither, rather just bc they are angry. There's a post right above yours where I described it better . . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yann.1946 Posted October 26, 2018 Share Posted October 26, 2018 > @"Gop.8713" said: > > @"yann.1946" said: > > > @"Gop.8713" said: > > > > > > But those would have to be funneled through the tp, and unfortunately the tp is tainted as a source to many players due to the exploitation that was permitted during the first few days of the collection :/ > > > > > > Tbh I felt like a stealth buff to exotics that carry the sigil was one of the more likely fixes, but I don't think the numbers bear that out afaik . . . > > > > Because people think the price would be lower without the flipping? > > > > Or because they don't want to give gold to people they perceive as the cause of the high price? > > I would say neither, rather just bc they are angry. There's a post right above yours where I described it better . . . I'm asking what you think the mayor source of anger is. I don't think their is a good way to appease the anger tho. As it is not really reasondriven Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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