MUDse.7623 Posted September 25, 2018 Share Posted September 25, 2018 > @"Turk.5460" said: > > @"MUDse.7623" said: > > > @"Turk.5460" said: > > > > @"MUDse.7623" said: > > > > > @"Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497" said: > > > > > > @"Turk.5460" said: > > > > > > > @"Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497" said: > > > > > > > > @"Turk.5460" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497" said: > > > > > > > > > Nevermind the fact that DE DJ expends his stacks for missing. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Where are you getting this from? Malice stays if the attack is evaded/blinded/invlun'd/LOS'd/Out of Range. The only thing that eats up malice is if the attack is absorbed (Full Counter, Signet of Stone, Endure Pain). Even if the attack is body blocked by your enemy's teammate the malice stacks will remain... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I barely pay attention to it to be honest as I have a hard time seeing the flames. I just count the hits. Assume i burned it, and count up again. Just seemed fair to assume you lose it. > > > > > > > > > > > > Yeah it makes sense that it would be lost just as Warriors lose Adrenaline even if their Burst Skills don't hit. > > > > > > > > > > Wouldn't be much of a nerf to be honest. More to line up with consistentcy. > > > > > > > > with m7 it would be a buff, not a nerf as the deadeye then could endlessly spamm. > > > > > > Easy, 10-15s cooldown on M7. > > > > to encourage again longer stealth periods ? i mean thats cool for the target to recover but i thought you were one of those that didnt like thieves going into stealth for 10s to reengage you even made a new thread to replace some stealth with CC so we get back our spamm 3 meta wich is so much fun. > > No, that encourages *you* to go into stealth more often. Many other DE players aren't frightened by the thought of being outside of stealth for a while. You don't speak for how everyone else plays, just you, and you're literally *the only one* who has voiced that type of "concern". Stop. > > If you want to talk about what I suggested in another thread, please go post about it there. it affects much more my fights against NPCs were i would have to stay more in stealth => more time to observe the envoirement => harder to gank. yet i keep telling people to gank me at lords and it already is too difficult for most. against players i dont spamm enough to get multiple m7 procs within 10-15s and very rarely do i miss my DJ.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turk.5460 Posted September 25, 2018 Share Posted September 25, 2018 > @"MUDse.7623" said: > > @"Turk.5460" said: > > > @"MUDse.7623" said: > > > > @"Turk.5460" said: > > > > > @"MUDse.7623" said: > > > > > > @"Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497" said: > > > > > > > @"Turk.5460" said: > > > > > > > > @"Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Turk.5460" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497" said: > > > > > > > > > > Nevermind the fact that DE DJ expends his stacks for missing. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Where are you getting this from? Malice stays if the attack is evaded/blinded/invlun'd/LOS'd/Out of Range. The only thing that eats up malice is if the attack is absorbed (Full Counter, Signet of Stone, Endure Pain). Even if the attack is body blocked by your enemy's teammate the malice stacks will remain... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I barely pay attention to it to be honest as I have a hard time seeing the flames. I just count the hits. Assume i burned it, and count up again. Just seemed fair to assume you lose it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yeah it makes sense that it would be lost just as Warriors lose Adrenaline even if their Burst Skills don't hit. > > > > > > > > > > > > Wouldn't be much of a nerf to be honest. More to line up with consistentcy. > > > > > > > > > > with m7 it would be a buff, not a nerf as the deadeye then could endlessly spamm. > > > > > > > > Easy, 10-15s cooldown on M7. > > > > > > to encourage again longer stealth periods ? i mean thats cool for the target to recover but i thought you were one of those that didnt like thieves going into stealth for 10s to reengage you even made a new thread to replace some stealth with CC so we get back our spamm 3 meta wich is so much fun. > > > > No, that encourages *you* to go into stealth more often. Many other DE players aren't frightened by the thought of being outside of stealth for a while. You don't speak for how everyone else plays, just you, and you're literally *the only one* who has voiced that type of "concern". Stop. > > > > If you want to talk about what I suggested in another thread, please go post about it there. > > it affects much more my fights against NPCs were i would have to stay more in stealth => more time to observe the envoirement => harder to gank. yet i keep telling people to gank me at lords and it already is too difficult for most. > against players i dont spamm enough to get multiple m7 procs within 10-15s and very rarely do i miss my DJ.. > > OK so you just contradicted your previous post about it being a buff? And how do you rarely miss your DJ, it has the loudest tell both visual and audio. Rarely "missing" your DJ doesn't say much about you, but speaks volumes as to what kind of opponents you face... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MUDse.7623 Posted September 25, 2018 Share Posted September 25, 2018 > @"Turk.5460" said: > > @"MUDse.7623" said: > > > @"Turk.5460" said: > > > > @"MUDse.7623" said: > > > > > @"Turk.5460" said: > > > > > > @"MUDse.7623" said: > > > > > > > @"Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497" said: > > > > > > > > @"Turk.5460" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Turk.5460" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497" said: > > > > > > > > > > > Nevermind the fact that DE DJ expends his stacks for missing. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Where are you getting this from? Malice stays if the attack is evaded/blinded/invlun'd/LOS'd/Out of Range. The only thing that eats up malice is if the attack is absorbed (Full Counter, Signet of Stone, Endure Pain). Even if the attack is body blocked by your enemy's teammate the malice stacks will remain... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I barely pay attention to it to be honest as I have a hard time seeing the flames. I just count the hits. Assume i burned it, and count up again. Just seemed fair to assume you lose it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yeah it makes sense that it would be lost just as Warriors lose Adrenaline even if their Burst Skills don't hit. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Wouldn't be much of a nerf to be honest. More to line up with consistentcy. > > > > > > > > > > > > with m7 it would be a buff, not a nerf as the deadeye then could endlessly spamm. > > > > > > > > > > Easy, 10-15s cooldown on M7. > > > > > > > > to encourage again longer stealth periods ? i mean thats cool for the target to recover but i thought you were one of those that didnt like thieves going into stealth for 10s to reengage you even made a new thread to replace some stealth with CC so we get back our spamm 3 meta wich is so much fun. > > > > > > No, that encourages *you* to go into stealth more often. Many other DE players aren't frightened by the thought of being outside of stealth for a while. You don't speak for how everyone else plays, just you, and you're literally *the only one* who has voiced that type of "concern". Stop. > > > > > > If you want to talk about what I suggested in another thread, please go post about it there. > > > > it affects much more my fights against NPCs were i would have to stay more in stealth => more time to observe the envoirement => harder to gank. yet i keep telling people to gank me at lords and it already is too difficult for most. > > against players i dont spamm enough to get multiple m7 procs within 10-15s and very rarely do i miss my DJ.. > > > > > > OK so you just contradicted your previous post about it being a buff? And how do you rarely miss your DJ, it has the loudest tell both visual and audio. Rarely "missing" your DJ doesn't say much about you, but speaks volumes as to what kind of opponents you face... no its a buff if i lose malice on miss because then i can rebuild malice. if it has a cooldown tho that is another story. i dont know how you shoot your DJ but i either shoot it with binding shadows, during animationlocks of my opponents or when they cant dodge anymore. why would i shoot it, if i know they can avoid it? then i use backstab. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chistorm.5196 Posted September 25, 2018 Share Posted September 25, 2018 > @"Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497" said: > It's cool and all you want to be antagonistic, but you're making a fool out of yourself when a quick search through forum history shows that I've never really complained about most of the professions. Reaper and Burn Guardian earned my silent ire during HoT, but I've never complained about them. And the only real active complaint I have of now is Mesmer for doing too much of everything. > > Berserkers I've rarely had an issue with, as I learned to just burst them before they were allowed to react or even know I'm near them. Haste Pop a Venom, Spiders for Damage and saying I hate you, Drake if I don't want you fighting back, Skale if I'm worried you might be pretty tanky. Regardless, it's 10% damage from Deadly Arts. Bounding Dodge, onto a Steal augmented with Deadly Arts' Mug, with Daze to interrupt - triggers Pulminary impact. Then Dual pistol unload with Deadly Arts' Panic Strike for the root. Executioner added a nice heap of damage when they went below 50% and combine that with Superior Rune of the Infiltrator's bonus damage. If not dead yet and they retalliate... Black Powder, Stolen skill whirl axe which mass spammed blind and finished them off. > > This is in Valks at the time cuz condi and bunkering was meta for PvP and WvW. I’m not looking like a fool, it the fact that this game is losing it counter play in it. So much unblockable in this game, so much permanent stealthing. Back in core guild wars 2 there was a lot more counter play now adays it’s just either spam wars 2 or unblockable wars 2. You’re not punish for all the stealthing you get because reveal, which was the counter play, is easily being remove for stealth. I don’t care for how much damage you have cause that was thief back in day you watch for that stealth and either dodge or block the attack. I just wish for a balance game mode it’s sad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babazhook.6805 Posted September 26, 2018 Share Posted September 26, 2018 DE versus DE fights are fun. It very cat and mouse where you use your own teammates as bait at times. Heck of a lot more fun then fighting scourages spamming red circles or those Tank heal forever druids.. I also like to pull in my tank warrior with the "On my Mark" and Taunt build when there a single DE to fight. With this latter I win some, I lose some but more often then not see the DE run off as he gives up in frustration. I have also wrecked a few DE's with the P/P thief I use time to time. He marks sets up his TRB or other malice builder, you respond with daggerstorm getting his health halfways down then follow up with a channeled unload. Dead DE. Obviously some are better then others but I still find it FUN trying to kill one. It not the end of the world when you lose. It just a game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babazhook.6805 Posted September 26, 2018 Share Posted September 26, 2018 > @"MUDse.7623" said: > > @"Turk.5460" said: > > > @"MUDse.7623" said: > > > > @"Turk.5460" said: > > > > > @"MUDse.7623" said: > > > > > > @"Turk.5460" said: > > > > > > > @"MUDse.7623" said: > > > > > > > > @"Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Turk.5460" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Turk.5460" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > Nevermind the fact that DE DJ expends his stacks for missing. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Where are you getting this from? Malice stays if the attack is evaded/blinded/invlun'd/LOS'd/Out of Range. The only thing that eats up malice is if the attack is absorbed (Full Counter, Signet of Stone, Endure Pain). Even if the attack is body blocked by your enemy's teammate the malice stacks will remain... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I barely pay attention to it to be honest as I have a hard time seeing the flames. I just count the hits. Assume i burned it, and count up again. Just seemed fair to assume you lose it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yeah it makes sense that it would be lost just as Warriors lose Adrenaline even if their Burst Skills don't hit. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Wouldn't be much of a nerf to be honest. More to line up with consistentcy. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > with m7 it would be a buff, not a nerf as the deadeye then could endlessly spamm. > > > > > > > > > > > > Easy, 10-15s cooldown on M7. > > > > > > > > > > to encourage again longer stealth periods ? i mean thats cool for the target to recover but i thought you were one of those that didnt like thieves going into stealth for 10s to reengage you even made a new thread to replace some stealth with CC so we get back our spamm 3 meta wich is so much fun. > > > > > > > > No, that encourages *you* to go into stealth more often. Many other DE players aren't frightened by the thought of being outside of stealth for a while. You don't speak for how everyone else plays, just you, and you're literally *the only one* who has voiced that type of "concern". Stop. > > > > > > > > If you want to talk about what I suggested in another thread, please go post about it there. > > > > > > it affects much more my fights against NPCs were i would have to stay more in stealth => more time to observe the envoirement => harder to gank. yet i keep telling people to gank me at lords and it already is too difficult for most. > > > against players i dont spamm enough to get multiple m7 procs within 10-15s and very rarely do i miss my DJ.. > > > > > > > > > > OK so you just contradicted your previous post about it being a buff? And how do you rarely miss your DJ, it has the loudest tell both visual and audio. Rarely "missing" your DJ doesn't say much about you, but speaks volumes as to what kind of opponents you face... > > no its a buff if i lose malice on miss because then i can rebuild malice. > if it has a cooldown tho that is another story. > i dont know how you shoot your DJ but i either shoot it with binding shadows, during animationlocks of my opponents or when they cant dodge anymore. why would i shoot it, if i know they can avoid it? then i use backstab. > > Yeah with a malice emptied with a dodged attack, it real easy to overlap the boons Mali 7 gives along with constantly fuel up ini. I doubt M7 with an ICD would help here as it just guts the skill in favor of BqoBk and makes the PREMED trait weaker overall which then impacts the non Rifle DE builds, which puts more into Rifle which creates more using dodge for stealth which generates more complaints :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruticus Fatalfury.3486 Posted September 26, 2018 Share Posted September 26, 2018 Takes absolutely no skill whatsoever to play a pew pew class with perma stealth. If the devs were smart they would change things back to how they were in the beginning. Where a player knowing their class , abilities, and being properly geared determines the outcome of a encounter. Not oh let me sit in perma stealth and snipe you from a 1500 range. I remember getting in to 1v1 2v1 and 3v1 and winning with my ranger simply because i knew my class and how to cycle my abilities not because i could sit around and pew pew players. There is and has been a serious lack of class balancing since the HoT release and apparently there is no change in store for the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babazhook.6805 Posted September 26, 2018 Share Posted September 26, 2018 > @"babazhook.6805" said: > > @"MUDse.7623" said: > > > @"Turk.5460" said: > > > > @"MUDse.7623" said: > > > > > @"Turk.5460" said: > > > > > > @"MUDse.7623" said: > > > > > > > @"Turk.5460" said: > > > > > > > > @"MUDse.7623" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Turk.5460" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Turk.5460" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nevermind the fact that DE DJ expends his stacks for missing. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Where are you getting this from? Malice stays if the attack is evaded/blinded/invlun'd/LOS'd/Out of Range. The only thing that eats up malice is if the attack is absorbed (Full Counter, Signet of Stone, Endure Pain). Even if the attack is body blocked by your enemy's teammate the malice stacks will remain... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I barely pay attention to it to be honest as I have a hard time seeing the flames. I just count the hits. Assume i burned it, and count up again. Just seemed fair to assume you lose it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yeah it makes sense that it would be lost just as Warriors lose Adrenaline even if their Burst Skills don't hit. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Wouldn't be much of a nerf to be honest. More to line up with consistentcy. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > with m7 it would be a buff, not a nerf as the deadeye then could endlessly spamm. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Easy, 10-15s cooldown on M7. > > > > > > > > > > > > to encourage again longer stealth periods ? i mean thats cool for the target to recover but i thought you were one of those that didnt like thieves going into stealth for 10s to reengage you even made a new thread to replace some stealth with CC so we get back our spamm 3 meta wich is so much fun. > > > > > > > > > > No, that encourages *you* to go into stealth more often. Many other DE players aren't frightened by the thought of being outside of stealth for a while. You don't speak for how everyone else plays, just you, and you're literally *the only one* who has voiced that type of "concern". Stop. > > > > > > > > > > If you want to talk about what I suggested in another thread, please go post about it there. > > > > > > > > it affects much more my fights against NPCs were i would have to stay more in stealth => more time to observe the envoirement => harder to gank. yet i keep telling people to gank me at lords and it already is too difficult for most. > > > > against players i dont spamm enough to get multiple m7 procs within 10-15s and very rarely do i miss my DJ.. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > OK so you just contradicted your previous post about it being a buff? And how do you rarely miss your DJ, it has the loudest tell both visual and audio. Rarely "missing" your DJ doesn't say much about you, but speaks volumes as to what kind of opponents you face... > > > > no its a buff if i lose malice on miss because then i can rebuild malice. > > if it has a cooldown tho that is another story. > > i dont know how you shoot your DJ but i either shoot it with binding shadows, during animationlocks of my opponents or when they cant dodge anymore. why would i shoot it, if i know they can avoid it? then i use backstab. > > > > > > Yeah with a malice emptied with a dodged attack, it real easy to overlap the boons Mali 7 gives along with constantly fuel up ini. I doubt M7 with an ICD would help here as it just guts the skill in favor of BqoBk and makes the PREMED trait weaker overall which then impacts the non Rifle DE builds, which puts more into Rifle which creates more using dodge for stealth which generates more complaints :) The reality is that there absolutely nothing OP about the Non Rifle DE builds even if one accepts the premise that Rifle is such and any attempts to take rifle down a notch has got to avoid those other builds being weakened. Now there certainly those that suggest d/x with the malicious Backstab too much. I have not played that build much myself but have played against it when on my warrior and can handle it well enough. AOE, taunts and On my mark do work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babazhook.6805 Posted September 26, 2018 Share Posted September 26, 2018 I still think that fundamentally if there IS an issue with DE or any stealth type build the best way to address it might well be just a tuning of stealth. Allow the stealth on dodge , allow the leaps through a field to stealth. Just make all stealth adds lose 1 second base if used when already stealthed. Thus if you dodge to stealth from being visible you get the 3 seconds base (4 if in SA) , but if you already stealthed a second use of dodge will only add 2 seconds base (three if in SA). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferus.3165 Posted September 26, 2018 Share Posted September 26, 2018 stealth needs some nerf.. at least deadeye. How about when the deadeye tries to attack from stealth he gets a revealed buff (before the attack hits) and the cast time of any offensive ability is set to +1 sec, so there is at least 1 sec time between the deadeye leaving stealth and him dealing damage to any opponent? On top of that apply reveal to the deadeye after 10 sec of constant invisibility so a deadeye can't stay inside a keep forever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MUDse.7623 Posted September 26, 2018 Share Posted September 26, 2018 > @"Ferus.3165" said: > stealth needs some nerf.. at least deadeye. How about when the deadeye tries to attack from stealth he gets a revealed buff (before the attack hits) and the cast time of any offensive ability is set to +1 sec, so there is at least 1 sec time between the deadeye leaving stealth and him dealing damage to any opponent? On top of that apply reveal to the deadeye after 10 sec of constant invisibility so a deadeye can't stay inside a keep forever. those suggestions sound like stealth was an effect exclusive to deadeye. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpsssss.7530 Posted September 27, 2018 Author Share Posted September 27, 2018 > @"Ferus.3165" said: > stealth needs some nerf.. at least deadeye. How about when the deadeye tries to attack from stealth he gets a revealed buff (before the attack hits) and the cast time of any offensive ability is set to +1 sec, so there is at least 1 sec time between the deadeye leaving stealth and him dealing damage to any opponent? On top of that apply reveal to the deadeye after 10 sec of constant invisibility so a deadeye can't stay inside a keep forever. I actually disagree with the 10 second thing. It completely ruins sneak gyro. Sneak gyro was balanced the second they game it a health bar. I just think that deadeye shouldn't be able to ignore the one method of counter play for stealth while having so much stealth (up to all utility 5 skill slots, weapon skills, dodge with rifle, etc.) and mobility they can reset any fight anytime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferus.3165 Posted September 27, 2018 Share Posted September 27, 2018 > @"jpsssss.7530" said: > > @"Ferus.3165" said: > > stealth needs some nerf.. at least deadeye. How about when the deadeye tries to attack from stealth he gets a revealed buff (before the attack hits) and the cast time of any offensive ability is set to +1 sec, so there is at least 1 sec time between the deadeye leaving stealth and him dealing damage to any opponent? On top of that apply reveal to the deadeye after 10 sec of constant invisibility so a deadeye can't stay inside a keep forever. > > I actually disagree with the 10 second thing. It completely ruins sneak gyro. Sneak gyro was balanced the second they game it a health bar. I just think that deadeye shouldn't be able to ignore the one method of counter play for stealth while having so much stealth (up to all utility 5 skill slots, weapon skills, dodge with rifle, etc.) and mobility they can reset any fight anytime. you are right. gyros most definitly don't need any kind of nerf, that's why i said at least deadeye needs some nerf in that department. if those changes would be applied to deadeye only (not affecting other thief specs) this would probably also be alright. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waisenpai.6028 Posted September 28, 2018 Share Posted September 28, 2018 Play warrior use On my mark its a 6 second reveral at 1200 range CD 25 seconds. It's an ammuntion skill so you can spam it lol. Or jsut used the 3 second evey 20 seconds SB reveal. Or just dump condi on it as a condi thief or a mirage. Please remember to have sigil of energy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caedmon.6798 Posted September 28, 2018 Share Posted September 28, 2018 > @"Waisenpai.6028" said: > Play warrior use On my mark its a 6 second reveral at 1200 range CD 25 seconds. It's an ammuntion skill so you can spam it lol. Or jsut used the 3 second evey 20 seconds SB reveal. Or just dump condi on it as a condi thief or a mirage. Please remember to have sigil of energy! But to Actually have to use a Utility Just for THIEF,Thats insane !!!!! Right ? I mean Who would even think to try and slot a utility and counter DE.No no,lets just complain because there is no counter to DE !!!!!!. Sarcasm off* People need to practice more and test it themselves vs DE's or learn the spec themselves to see how or what and to notice Shadow meld has no infinite uses and it not being as easy to play as they think it is,and there being counter enough to the spec if they know what theyre doing.The amount of horrible DE's i see in wvw is laughable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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