Sigil of Nullification issue

[Zaoda.1653]

At the very least, the superior sigil of nullification should be craftable via either a recipe, or via random major and superior sigils being chucked in the mystic forge.

 

The fact that it can't be crafted, only encourages the already super-rich, to hoard all of them, and become wealthier. Clearly this wasn't thought out very well.

 

In the meantime, I'm not going to cater to the mega-rich by funding their greed, I'm simply going to wait it out until they go back to being dirt cheap. I can wait :-)

[Zaoda.1653]

> @"Cregath.7628" said:

> > @"Chesterakos.2804" said:

> > I'd like to be challenged by Anet and not by a few TP leeches who drained the TP in an hour of all the sigils.

> >

> > I do not like the idea of making some leeches even richer because they play the TP all day.

> >

> > Anet must introduce a way to create new sigils into the game. Don't tell me that leveling alts to 64 for 1 sigil each is a way to create new ones.

> >

> > Those that rushed and bought the sigil when it was low priced. Good for you. You were lucky to be able to do that. You are only a few though while we are hundreds of thousands. So spare us of your white knighting.

>

> There is no white knighting though. It's just people being "unreasonable" because they actually need to do something for a change. So like, noone "needs" to do anything honestly. ANet doesn't "need" to give a way to get those Sigils. And you don't "need" to buy Sigils for the skins. What you feel is just unjustified entitlement. :disappointed:

 

"What you feel is just unjustified entitlement"

 

Wrong.

[foozlesprite.8051]

Too late to fix the mistake now without having people that already bought them crying foul, and I understand that. But it would be nice if they added it as a once-day selectable reward from a lesser-done meta.

 

If they do anything similar to this in the future, I hope the feedback is taken. Perhaps requiring five sigils per item, with each being a *different* low-value sigil, would spread out the demand enough that the sigils became worth something without being nearly unattainable. Twenty-five of the same sigil in total, with one step being gated by ten of them, is ridiculous.

[Cronos.6532]

Hello folks; I'm interested in crafting this armor set.

[Narrrz.7532]

I too would love ANet's perspective on this, however i''l also offer my thoughts & suggestions for a solution:

 

(From a [comment i made on reddit](

"comment i made on reddit"))

 

The people who already bought the armor are the overachievers and the very rich. While a sudden drop in sigil value will likely cause a great deal of outrage amongst those who have been speculating on the TP, and those who already bought the armor at a hugely inflated rate, the vast majority of that group are people who could easily afford the gold price, and who won't even be greatly inconvenienced by the loss of capital their TP speculations could result in - if they haven't already turned a net profit.

 

Of those who forked over their life savings for the armor, and were too ethical (or simply not quick enough) to invest in sigils - they're an unfortunate casualty. there's no really fair way to recompense them without also giving more gold to the already super-rich. Their compensation essentially has to be that they got the armor weeks ahead of the crowd, and got to enjoy their new shinies semi-exclusively for at least a little while. The monetary loss is the price of their impatience.

 

My personal suggestion to fix the issue is to replace the nullification sigils in the recipe with something with a more reliable source - honestly, i would recommend Crystal Lodestones. They are sufficiently rare that people can still speculate on them, but they drop reliably enough (especially from branded) that they can be farmed by people who wish to put in the work.

 

As for the nullification sigils - Give them a crafting recipe and make them a required item for unlocking the additional skins once the first requiem set is completed. I was thinking 2 per armor skin, which will be 24 in total for all weights. Those who have already gotten the requiem set will most likely already have the three sets unlocked, but for those who don't, perhaps those who at the time of the patch had the first collection complete could receive the as-yet unlocked skins for free just as a minor compensation.

 

The reason i say to gate the additional armor skins behind nulification sigils still is because the full collection of requiem armor awards an ascended armor box, and with the massive gold gate of nulligils removed, this might simply be too easy a way to get ascended armor.

 

Or maybe not. It still requires farming 1100(?) Mistonium, and even if the stuff is pretty easy to farm that's still a decent amount of work over probably a number of days, even for a fairly dedicated player (like myself, i'm only up to around 750-ish total)

 

[Silver.2076]

On the one hand I think it's good that I can now use my level scrolls and level books to get something. What's annoying about it is just this clicking to reach the 64th chest - you could make it a lot easier.

 

The same is also valid for the urgent storage of tactics from the WVW chests - it also takes unnecessarily long. All this should be clarified in an extensive "we don't want to annoy you and steal your time - update".

 

So Anet, pls more QOL-changes.

[Cregath.7628]

> @"Narrrz.7532" said:

> I too would love ANet's perspective on this, however i''l also offer my thoughts & suggestions for a solution:

>

> (From a [comment i made on reddit](

"comment i made on reddit"))

>

> The people who already bought the armor are the overachievers and the very rich. While a sudden drop in sigil value will likely cause a great deal of outrage amongst those who have been speculating on the TP, and those who already bought the armor at a hugely inflated rate, the vast majority of that group are people who could easily afford the gold price, and who won't even be greatly inconvenienced by the loss of capital their TP speculations could result in - if they haven't already turned a net profit.

>

> Of those who forked over their life savings for the armor, and were too ethical (or simply not quick enough) to invest in sigils - they're an unfortunate casualty. there's no really fair way to recompense them without also giving more gold to the already super-rich. Their compensation essentially has to be that they got the armor weeks ahead of the crowd, and got to enjoy their new shinies semi-exclusively for at least a little while. The monetary loss is the price of their impatience.

>

> My personal suggestion to fix the issue is to replace the nullification sigils in the recipe with something with a more reliable source - honestly, i would recommend Crystal Lodestones. They are sufficiently rare that people can still speculate on them, but they drop reliably enough (especially from branded) that they can be farmed by people who wish to put in the work.

>

> As for the nullification sigils - Give them a crafting recipe and make them a required item for unlocking the additional skins once the first requiem set is completed. I was thinking 2 per armor skin, which will be 24 in total for all weights. Those who have already gotten the requiem set will most likely already have the three sets unlocked, but for those who don't, perhaps those who at the time of the patch had the first collection complete could receive the as-yet unlocked skins for free just as a minor compensation.

>

> The reason i say to gate the additional armor skins behind nulification sigils still is because the full collection of requiem armor awards an ascended armor box, and with the massive gold gate of nulligils removed, this might simply be too easy a way to get ascended armor.

>

> Or maybe not. It still requires farming 1100(?) Mistonium, and even if the stuff is pretty easy to farm that's still a decent amount of work over probably a number of days, even for a fairly dedicated player (like myself, i'm only up to around 750-ish total)

>

 

Personally, I don't see why you think investing and profiting from an opportunity is unethical. That's exactly how the market works even irl.

 

"The monetary loss is the price of their impatience."

That would assume that you are patient. Which you are probably not if you only waited a single week (+ a few days) and you already want a "solution" for something that is not really an issue. As I said in an earlier post, the price will go down. If you want it now then pay up. If it's not worth it for you, then wait at least a month and you will see the price dropping.

 

I've seen many people saying that the sigil should be craftable, but that isn't really a solution. That will just hit the prices in the gut for a second time. If you make more modifications to the buy recipes then it will just make things worse.

 

If ANet does see this as an issue then they will go with a smaller more long-term solution. Think of it as a medicine to stop the infection rather than to just cut off your arm to get rid of it. Something like temporarily increasing the drop rate of items with Nullification sigils in it or giving a higher chance for said items to give them upon salvaging or both. These won't have a quick effect, but they will have one for sure.

 

I've seen earlier @"foozlesprite.8051" saying exactly how it should've worked. 25 Sigil of a single type is way too much. And the suggestion to add it as a reward to a meta is also good.

[Adzekul.3104]

I feel the need to add my voice to this issue.

1) In my opinion this issue has spoken loudly and in stark contrast to the legendary weapon sigil swapping "concerns" that Anet raised. Maybe this was a test to see how bad it could be? Or maybe this was just a poorly thought out implementation of a quick fix. Evidence points to the latter, since there has been no response from Anet on the issue, and frankly, it makes them look bad.

2) As for solutions, I favour options around making the rune craftable, and a recipe that includes several items which currently have no or no significant use. Examples include but are not limited to Flax Fiber and Resonating Slivers, perhaps with the inclusion of Bloodstone Dust, Dragonite Ore and/or Empyreal Fragments in a nested recipe. I would not want to see any limited availability items in the recipe though, like Freshwater Pearls or Maguuma Lillies etc. We should allow prices on the "no use" items to increase somewhat on the TP, but increasing prices on the pearls, lillies etc would be counter productive.

3) Maybe I am selfish in a way, but I object to people being able to corner the market on things like this Sigil. This does not server the greater good. Market manipulation opens up a huge can of worms: how to prevent it, if at all, how to regulate it, how to spot it, and how to deal with it. It is a problem of multiple dimensions and in my opinion it should not be allowed in the game. Put aside the issue of "in real life people go to jail for stuff like this" .... this is largely or almost irrelevant to the game. The point is it makes the game unfun for all but the manipulators.

 

To Mike Z and any other Anet staff reading this: Please diffuse the emotions and drama by commenting publicly on the issue today and giving us an amicable solution in the Tuesday patch.

[Narrrz.7532]

> Personally, I don't see why you think investing and profiting from an opportunity is unethical. That's exactly how the market works even irl.

 

And we live in a society rife with inequality and plagued by the issues that stem from it.

I consider it unethical, or at best immoral, to deprive others of things that will bring them pleasure for the sake of personal profit. It's slightly different when you're competing for the same resources - you have as much right to sigils of nullification as anyone else, until your purpose for them is to ransom them off to the less fortunate (either monetarily poorer or those who have taken longer to that point in the collection, meaning the price they face is higher)

 

The game does rest on a monetary system, one that is driven by supply and demand, and broadly speaking i think that it's good, it serves a valuable purpose, but situations like this reveal its inherent weakness, or perhaps the weakness of human nature - when an opportunity to profit at someone else's expense comes along, someone eagerly jumps upon it and the system does not punish this behaviour; even rewards it. That stands at odds to much of the rest of the game, where cooperation, rather than competition, is the path to success. The TP is one of the only areas of the game where players must directly compete for resources, and by and large that competitive incentive is blunted by more supply than can reasonably be controlled, and a lack of demand in the few instances where it can be.

 

> "The monetary loss is the price of their impatience."

> That would assume that you are patient. Which you are probably not if you only waited a single week (+ a few days) and you already want a "solution" for something that is not really an issue. As I said in an earlier post, the price will go down. If you want it now then pay up. If it's not worth it for you, then wait at least a month and you will see the price dropping.

 

I see an issue. I would like there to not be an issue. How long do you wait to submit bug reports, to see if a future patch will fix them without you drawing attention to them? Patience is only justified/relevant in situations which you have reason to expect will improve without any further interference.

 

> I've seen many people saying that the sigil should be craftable, but that isn't really a solution. That will just hit the prices in the gut for a second time. If you make more modifications to the buy recipes then it will just make things worse.

 

You are presuming a dichotomy, one that i would say is false - that you can only have too little or too much supply. A recipe to create the sigils will see them drop in value, but not below the value of their components, and even for it to fall that far may take a while. I'm glad to see a sink introduced for more things that were already vendor value, but to have demand so far outstrip supply that we see massive inflation and access gating to newly available content is a completely different problem, and not one that i would consider better.

 

> If ANet does see this as an issue then they will go with a smaller more long-term solution. Think of it as a medicine to stop the infection rather than to just cut off your arm to get rid of it. Something like temporarily increasing the drop rate of items with Nullification sigils in it or giving a higher chance for said items to give them upon salvaging or both. These won't have a quick effect, but they will have one for sure.

 

That has the potential to be a solution, but i don't think it's the one they are likely to go with - i don't know of any other such item they have increased the drop rate of in response to a lack of supply, particularly when the major source of the supply is an exotic weapon. Making it drop more frequently means either biasing drop chances against other exotics, or increasing the overall number of exotics that are in circulation (or the products of salvaging them). Both of those options have drawbacks, ones i think are worse than adding a new recipe which could act as a new sink for some other overabundant material.

 

> I've seen earlier @"foozlesprite.8051" saying exactly how it should've worked. 25 Sigil of a single type is way too much. And the suggestion to add it as a reward to a meta is also good.

 

That's another option. I don't know how that one would play out. I guess it would be determined by how many/how frequently they dropped. And once people have moved on and completed/forgotten about this collection, it runs the risk of dropping the sigil's value straight back to vendor price, as well as introducing more annoying bag clutter.

 

 

[Cregath.7628]

> @"Narrrz.7532" said:

> > Personally, I don't see why you think investing and profiting from an opportunity is unethical. That's exactly how the market works even irl.

>

> And we live in a society rife with inequality and plagued by the issues that stem from it.

> I consider it unethical, or at best immoral, to deprive others of things that will bring them pleasure for the sake of personal profit. It's slightly different when you're competing for the same resources - you have as much right to sigils of nullification as anyone else, until your purpose for them is to ransom them off to the less fortunate (either monetarily poorer or those who have taken longer to that point in the collection, meaning the price they face is higher)

>

> The game does rest on a monetary system, one that is driven by supply and demand, and broadly speaking i think that it's good, it serves a valuable purpose, but situations like this reveal its inherent weakness, or perhaps the weakness of human nature - when an opportunity to profit at someone else's expense comes along, someone eagerly jumps upon it and the system does not punish this behaviour; even rewards it. That stands at odds to much of the rest of the game, where cooperation, rather than competition, is the path to success. The TP is one of the only areas of the game where players must directly compete for resources, and by and large that competitive incentive is blunted by more supply than can reasonably be controlled, and a lack of demand in the few instances where it can be.

>

> > "The monetary loss is the price of their impatience."

> > That would assume that you are patient. Which you are probably not if you only waited a single week (+ a few days) and you already want a "solution" for something that is not really an issue. As I said in an earlier post, the price will go down. If you want it now then pay up. If it's not worth it for you, then wait at least a month and you will see the price dropping.

>

> I see an issue. I would like there to not be an issue. How long do you wait to submit bug reports, to see if a future patch will fix them without you drawing attention to them? Patience is only justified/relevant in situations which you have reason to expect will improve without any further interference.

>

> > I've seen many people saying that the sigil should be craftable, but that isn't really a solution. That will just hit the prices in the gut for a second time. If you make more modifications to the buy recipes then it will just make things worse.

>

> You are presuming a dichotomy, one that i would say is false - that you can only have too little or too much supply. A recipe to create the sigils will see them drop in value, but not below the value of their components, and even for it to fall that far may take a while. I'm glad to see a sink introduced for more things that were already vendor value, but to have demand so far outstrip supply that we see massive inflation and access gating to newly available content is a completely different problem, and not one that i would consider better.

>

> > If ANet does see this as an issue then they will go with a smaller more long-term solution. Think of it as a medicine to stop the infection rather than to just cut off your arm to get rid of it. Something like temporarily increasing the drop rate of items with Nullification sigils in it or giving a higher chance for said items to give them upon salvaging or both. These won't have a quick effect, but they will have one for sure.

>

> That has the potential to be a solution, but i don't think it's the one they are likely to go with - i don't know of any other such item they have increased the drop rate of in response to a lack of supply, particularly when the major source of the supply is an exotic weapon. Making it drop more frequently means either biasing drop chances against other exotics, or increasing the overall number of exotics that are in circulation (or the products of salvaging them). Both of those options have drawbacks, ones i think are worse than adding a new recipe which could act as a new sink for some other overabundant material.

>

> > I've seen earlier @"foozlesprite.8051" saying exactly how it should've worked. 25 Sigil of a single type is way too much. And the suggestion to add it as a reward to a meta is also good.

>

> That's another option. I don't know how that one would play out. I guess it would be determined by how many/how frequently they dropped. And once people have moved on and completed/forgotten about this collection, it runs the risk of dropping the sigil's value straight back to vendor price, as well as introducing more annoying bag clutter.

>

>

 

Well, many people are like "I demand response not ANet" I may have assumed you are part of that group, but that doesn't matter at this point I guess. But from your stance then, I don't see why people should be "paying a price" for their "impatience" then.

So, I'll assume here that you are watching current supply and demand on the item as well as price changes. At this moment according to GW2TP, there are 226 Sigil available on the TP. The demand is just going up. I kind of see a problem with the amount of items available being too low at the moment. But that has nothing to do with "unethical" or "immoral" people selling it for too much. The prices didn't went up purely because of greed. This is the result of Supply being hard to come by and it being low. I guess you could think of it as when a large supply of items gets destroyed or stolen in an accident or something, you WILL see a rise in their price. So, please don't mistakenly place guilt on human greed.

Let's see now why crafting is not really an option. So going back to GW2TP the demand is 4005 right now. Then there is obviously those who don't have a buy order running, so we can assume that the actual number is higher than that. Obviously there are those in there who want to stockpile and those who are just missing a few pieces too. Regardless, it's clear that people want more than 4005 of this Sigil. Now, ANet would probably want the crafting formula of the Sigil if they made one to be similar to the other Sigils'. That means a single Lodestone-like item (or a large amount of smaller, generally useless mat with a large supply) and some misc meaningless mats. You suggested Crystal Lodestone as an example. The current price for it is ~23 silver. If this got implemented, people would jump on the opportunity to quickly do their Sigils. A lot of people have this item laying around in their bank. The current supply is relatively stable around 26k. Now since there is a demand for at least 4k Sigil, let's assume these people will buy 1 each. That's 15% of the supply gone. Now, this is where human greed comes in. The price at this point for the Sigil is still high and people will jump in to either get back the money they spent on Sigils previously or make even more. Sigil prices might go lower, but on the other hand Crystal Lodestone prices will go up. This will obviously affect other prices as well, most notably, Pulsing Brandspark which is another rare resource. This item serves as a currency for several Ascended accessories as well as crafting Harrier Insignias and Inscriptions which is a popular prefix. I think it's easy to guess what comes next. You can replace the item in that recipe to any other "big item", because as long as there is not a new source, the result is the same. It may be convenient for your, but would inconvenience those who don't even care about the collection.

As for ANet not increasing drop rates, you can never know. Maybe they always fiddled with the random loot generation, but you just never noticed. The only real solution I see is a slow new source for the Sigil either with meta reward or droprate increase. If it's going to be a crafting recipe then it should most definitely be with a new resource. I think that just adding the Sigil as a potential drop to Death-Branded Shatterer would already be a huge improvement. A lot of people kill it once a day anyways. But I hope you see the issue with a crafting recipe at this point.

[Ferus.3165]

Simple. Make a vendor that sells the sigil for 5g (maximum 25 sigils per account).

[Narrrz.7532]

> Well, many people are like "I demand response not ANet" I may have assumed you are part of that group, but that doesn't matter at this point I guess. But from your stance then, I don't see why people should be "paying a price" for their "impatience" then.

To put it simply, it's them or us. Either the few lose out because their desire for the set was enough that they felt it warranted the extra high price, Or the rest of us lose out because we can't afford the hyper inflated rates that TP barons are asking for.

 

> So, I'll assume here that you are watching current supply and demand on the item as well as price changes.

Not really, actually. I know a problem exists, and i'm going to wait to see if a solution comes, and how long it takes, and base my course of action off that.

 

>At this moment according to GW2TP, there are 226 Sigil available on the TP. The demand is just going up. I kind of see a problem with the amount of items available being too low at the moment. But that has nothing to do with "unethical" or "immoral" people selling it for too much. The prices didn't went up purely because of greed. This is the result of Supply being hard to come by and it being low. I guess you could think of it as when a large supply of items gets destroyed or stolen in an accident or something, you WILL see a rise in their price. So, please don't mistakenly place guilt on human greed.

People have freely admitted to buying up the supply the moment they realised how low it was compared to demand, and relisting it at a higher price. There's noo mistake here. A few people saw an opportunity and took advantage of it. There would still be a problem even if they hadn't - like you say, supply & demand, and sigil supply is simply too low - but human greed has absolutely exacerbated the issue to the point it's at now.

 

> Let's see now why crafting is not really an option. So going back to GW2TP the demand is 4005 right now. Then there is obviously those who don't have a buy order running, so we can assume that the actual number is higher than that. Obviously there are those in there who want to stockpile and those who are just missing a few pieces too. Regardless, it's clear that people want more than 4005 of this Sigil. Now, ANet would probably want the crafting formula of the Sigil if they made one to be similar to the other Sigils'. That means a single Lodestone-like item (or a large amount of smaller, generally useless mat with a large supply) and some misc meaningless mats. You suggested Crystal Lodestone as an example. The current price for it is ~23 silver. If this got implemented, people would jump on the opportunity to quickly do their Sigils. A lot of people have this item laying around in their bank. The current supply is relatively stable around 26k. Now since there is a demand for at least 4k Sigil, let's assume these people will buy 1 each. That's 15% of the supply gone. Now, this is where human greed comes in. The price at this point for the Sigil is still high and people will jump in to either get back the money they spent on Sigils previously or make even more. Sigil prices might go lower, but on the other hand Crystal Lodestone prices will go up. This will obviously affect other prices as well, most notably, Pulsing Brandspark which is another rare resource. This item serves as a currency for several Ascended accessories as well as crafting Harrier Insignias and Inscriptions which is a popular prefix. I think it's easy to guess what comes next. You can replace the item in that recipe to any other "big item", because as long as there is not a new source, the result is the same. It may be convenient for your, but would inconvenience those who don't even care about the collection.w

Crystal lodestones have a source, and a reliable one too, at that. If it were one lodestone per sigil i would be able to farm that out in substantially less than a week, not even dedicating much actual time to doing it. Price would be capped out by the balance between the value people place on their time versus their money.

 

> As for ANet not increasing drop rates, you can never know. Maybe they always fiddled with the random loot generation, but you just never noticed. The only real solution I see is a slow new source for the Sigil either with meta reward or droprate increase. If it's going to be a crafting recipe then it should most definitely be with a new resource. I think that just adding the Sigil as a potential drop to Death-Branded Shatterer would already be a huge improvement. A lot of people kill it once a day anyways. But I hope you see the issue with a crafting recipe at this point.

As i pointed out, slow though it may be, the end result of introducing a new source that isn't dependant by another item means oversaturation is the inevitable result, returning us to the previous (i would consider, undesirable) status quo. I don't want to see that either - I'm happy for the sigil to have some value, and i wish more superior sigils did as well. Many of them you can't even sell on the TP, the demand is so low.

 

[ProtoGunner.4953]

> @"Lascax.2163" said:

> I think that most of us already know, but this uncraftable sigil has been acquiring a very high value since the release of the patch due to the upgradeable Armor requirements.

>

> Will it be changed? Will we have a recipe? Is ArenaNet taking any actions toward it's availability? It would be a shame that this armor, which is a main content of this patch, would be so highly expensive when other times it was not the case ( like the Luminescent armors ).

 

No and it was intended. Anet knew it and they know that some ppl will use a CC to buy gems for it.

[Cregath.7628]

@"Narrrz.7532" You just said the exact reason for the issue, but still shift blame to people buying up the supply. Enough said.

[Tanner Blackfeather.6509]

> @"Zaoda.1653" said:

> At the very least, the superior sigil of nullification should be craftable via either a recipe, or **via random major** and superior **sigils being chucked in the mystic forge.**

 

This is precisely how it works currently.

4 Major sigils have an approx 20% change to generate a random Superior.

 

The specific likelyhood of this being Nullification isn't established, but from my (*not* statistically relevant) experience is that the possible outcomes are basically even.

[Chesterakos.2804]

> @"Tanner Blackfeather.6509" said:

> > @"Zaoda.1653" said:

> > At the very least, the superior sigil of nullification should be craftable via either a recipe, or **via random major** and superior **sigils being chucked in the mystic forge.**

>

> This is precisely how it works currently.

> 4 Major sigils have an approx 20% change to generate a random Superior.

>

> The specific likelyhood of this being Nullification isn't established, but from my (*not* statistically relevant) experience is that the possible outcomes are basically even.

 

I think I can answer that. According to the official Sigil wiki page there are approximately 82 different sigils. That brings us to a possibility of approximately 2% to get a Sigil of Nullification.

 

My math may be a bit off but I don't suspect that much off. Feel free to correct me. I took some liberties rounding up.

[Lynnie.7213]

I am not paying over 200g in sigil to make a cool skin. Anet should do something about, maybe add some craft recipe or maybe decrease the quantity needed to craft the armor by at least half.

[HardRider.2980]

These Sigils are literally the only thing stopping me getting this armour now.

 

I am not paying the stupid over inflated prices for armour like this.. It looks great by all means.. tops marks on its look over all 3 body types.

But an uncraftable sigil as a main material requirement..is just.. bad design personally.

[Narrrz.7532]

> @"Chesterakos.2804" said:

> > @"Tanner Blackfeather.6509" said:

> > > @"Zaoda.1653" said:

> > > At the very least, the superior sigil of nullification should be craftable via either a recipe, or **via random major** and superior **sigils being chucked in the mystic forge.**

> >

> > This is precisely how it works currently.

> > 4 Major sigils have an approx 20% change to generate a random Superior.

> >

> > The specific likelyhood of this being Nullification isn't established, but from my (*not* statistically relevant) experience is that the possible outcomes are basically even.

>

> I think I can answer that. According to the official Sigil wiki page there are approximately 82 different sigils. That brings us to a possibility of approximately 2% to get a Sigil of Nullification.

>

> My math may be a bit off but I don't suspect that much off. Feel free to correct me. I took some liberties rounding up.

 

I don't think it's 20%, it's more to the order of 10%. And 10/80 = 0.125, meaning that if there's no weighting at all there's approximately 1/8th of 1% chance to get the sigil. That's odds of just slightly more than one in every thousand transmutes.

[Tanner Blackfeather.6509]

> @"Narrrz.7532" said:

> > @"Chesterakos.2804" said:

> > > @"Tanner Blackfeather.6509" said:

> > > > @"Zaoda.1653" said:

> > > > At the very least, the superior sigil of nullification should be craftable via either a recipe, or **via random major** and superior **sigils being chucked in the mystic forge.**

> > >

> > > This is precisely how it works currently.

> > > 4 Major sigils have an approx 20% change to generate a random Superior.

> > >

> > > The specific likelyhood of this being Nullification isn't established, but from my (*not* statistically relevant) experience is that the possible outcomes are basically even.

> >

> > I think I can answer that. According to the official Sigil wiki page there are approximately 82 different sigils. That brings us to a possibility of approximately 2% to get a Sigil of Nullification.

> >

> > My math may be a bit off but I don't suspect that much off. Feel free to correct me. I took some liberties rounding up.

>

> I don't think it's 20%, it's more to the order of 10%. And 10/80 = 0.125, meaning that if there's no weighting at all there's approximately 1/8th of 1% chance to get the sigil. That's odds of just slightly more than one in every thousand transmutes.

 

I see no reason to distrust the wiki on the 20% upgrade chance on item combinations (weapons, armor, universal upgrades and runes & sigils), unless a *large* sample size can be supplied.

This is really the perfect time to conduct proper drop rate research!

 

I also don't think *all* sigils can drop from the forge, but I'm *definitely* not sure of that.

 

[Chesterakos.2804]

I think we can all agree that the possibility is in the range of 1% to 3%. So basically impossible odds.

[Tanner Blackfeather.6509]

> @"Chesterakos.2804" said:

> I think we can all agree that the possibility is in the range of 1% to 3%. So basically impossible odds.

 

A solid 1-3% chance is very far from impossible odds, especially as there are several other results that are decently valuable. It's simply a (very boring) form of persistance.

[Chesterakos.2804]

They are impossible because you don't need just one. You need 25. I don't know about you mate but I'm not into mystic toileting trash days on end to get those sigils. **This doesn't make the game enjoyable by any perspective.**

[Ferus.3165]

> @"Chesterakos.2804" said:

> > @"Tanner Blackfeather.6509" said:

> > > @"Zaoda.1653" said:

> > > At the very least, the superior sigil of nullification should be craftable via either a recipe, or **via random major** and superior **sigils being chucked in the mystic forge.**

> >

> > This is precisely how it works currently.

> > 4 Major sigils have an approx 20% change to generate a random Superior.

> >

> > The specific likelyhood of this being Nullification isn't established, but from my (*not* statistically relevant) experience is that the possible outcomes are basically even.

>

> I think I can answer that. According to the official Sigil wiki page there are approximately 82 different sigils. That brings us to a possibility of approximately 2% to get a Sigil of Nullification.

>

> My math may be a bit off but I don't suspect that much off. Feel free to correct me. I took some liberties rounding up.

 

1/82 is not 2% but rather ~1,2% so if you approximate it to the nearest whole number you could say 1% not 2%. Include the 20% chance to even get an exotic sigil at all and you have a ~0,24% chance to get a sigil of nullification with four rare sigils. That means one out of every ~400 tries will yield you a sigil of nullification. And again that means you need around 10k tries at the mystic forge with rare sigils to get the desired 25 nullification sigils.

[Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582]

> @"Ferus.3165" said:

> > @"Chesterakos.2804" said:

> > > @"Tanner Blackfeather.6509" said:

> > > > @"Zaoda.1653" said:

> > > > At the very least, the superior sigil of nullification should be craftable via either a recipe, or **via random major** and superior **sigils being chucked in the mystic forge.**

> > >

> > > This is precisely how it works currently.

> > > 4 Major sigils have an approx 20% change to generate a random Superior.

> > >

> > > The specific likelyhood of this being Nullification isn't established, but from my (*not* statistically relevant) experience is that the possible outcomes are basically even.

> >

> > I think I can answer that. According to the official Sigil wiki page there are approximately 82 different sigils. That brings us to a possibility of approximately 2% to get a Sigil of Nullification.

> >

> > My math may be a bit off but I don't suspect that much off. Feel free to correct me. I took some liberties rounding up.

>

> 1/82 is not 2% but rather ~1,2% so if you approximate it to the nearest whole number you could say 1% not 2%. Include the 20% chance to even get an exotic sigil at all and you have a ~0,24% chance to get a sigil of nullification with four rare sigils. That means one out of every ~400 tries will yield you a sigil of nullification. And again that means you need around 10k tries at the mystic forge with rare sigils to get the desired 25 nullification sigils.

 

Yeah, I don't think people actually did any math before suggesting this method for obtaining the sigils really because even if you were paying 1.5s for the Major sigils, and you have average "luck" on your rolls, ie statistically accurate, it's still 600G to make them via the forge... But at current prices, that's more like 800G to forge 25 of them...

 

LOL

 

Just put a damn NPC in LA that accepts any sigil in exchange for the SSoNullification.