Holy trinity - raids

[Kitarpa.8143]

Oh my god, why is this a discussion???

 

EVERY OTHER PIECE OF PVE CONTENT IS ZERKER META BECAUSE THERE'S NO HOLY TRINITY.

 

Hello? We complained for YEARS to get rid of it! Here it is, here's the easiest solution that doesn't involve changing the rest of the game and it lets everyone have something. Players can still can still min max speed run, sell runs, etc for dungeons. And now we have raids that you can't just stack power builds and smash your face against the keyboard while you watch netflix or something. I think instead of removing the one thing from keeping raids being a shit show like the rest of the PVE content in this game, how about we actually tweak classes for other things rather then 100% for the failed ESPORTS attempts like you know, towards the general population and content spread of the game, PVE.

[Bailios.7518]

1 Renegade in commanders gear giving alacrity for 10 raid members

2 Firebrands in harriers gear healing and providing every other boon

7 DPS classes

 

There's your alternative meta.

[Nimon.7840]

> @"Matiole.6857" said:

> 1 Renegade in commanders gear giving alacrity for 10 raid members

> 2 Firebrands in harriers gear healing and providing every other boon

> 7 DPS classes

>

> There's your alternative meta.

 

Not 7 DPS

You will also need a ranger and a warrior

 

And at some bosses this comp would be pretty bad.

Especially something like dhuum

[Astralporing.1957]

> @"Laila Lightness.8742" said:

> Druid is useless at healing even a venom share theif with zerker can do.better than druid in heal they are might bots nothing else druid needs more nerf to might and healing so no one ever picks it again. Thats what most of community wants anyway

Nah, that's what a _few_ people complaining on forums want. I'm pretty sure most of the community doesn't really care where their support comes from, as long as they do get that support, and as long as it's from someone _else_ than them.

 

Ironically, most of people complaining also do not want to play support. They just hope the changes will miraculously free a slot for _their_ class.

[Cyninja.2954]

> @"Astralporing.1957" said:

> > @"Laila Lightness.8742" said:

> > Druid is useless at healing even a venom share theif with zerker can do.better than druid in heal they are might bots nothing else druid needs more nerf to might and healing so no one ever picks it again. Thats what most of community wants anyway

> Nah, that's what a _few_ people complaining on forums want. **I'm pretty sure most of the community doesn't really care where their support comes from, as long as they do get that support, and as long as it's from someone _else_ than them.**

>

> **Ironically, most of people complaining also do not want to play support. They just hope the changes will miraculously free a slot for _their_ class.**

 

Quoted for truth. Spot on analysis.

[Dante.1763]

Im just curious why people want to nerf ranger/sb/druid so that its not welcome in content again, after literal *years* of not being welcome in any group content.

[Linken.6345]

> @"Dante.1763" said:

> Im just curious why people want to nerf ranger/sb/druid so that its not welcome in content again, after literal *years* of not being welcome in any group content.

 

Only heard Laila Lightness.8742 speak that in this thread noone else. Im a druid main in raids so would be bad for me.

[Zunki.3916]

> @"Cyninja.2954" said:

> > @"Astralporing.1957" said:

> > > @"Laila Lightness.8742" said:

> > > Druid is useless at healing even a venom share theif with zerker can do.better than druid in heal they are might bots nothing else druid needs more nerf to might and healing so no one ever picks it again. Thats what most of community wants anyway

> > Nah, that's what a _few_ people complaining on forums want. **I'm pretty sure most of the community doesn't really care where their support comes from, as long as they do get that support, and as long as it's from someone _else_ than them.**

> >

> > **Ironically, most of people complaining also do not want to play support. They just hope the changes will miraculously free a slot for _their_ class.**

>

> Quoted for truth. Spot on analysis.

 

Im fighting for equal useability of supporters/tanks so I can play the support I want. Fun fact: The new dual firebrand option is even worse than the current druid+1 meta as it locks both sup to firebrand (as we had it with druid for years)... So the option to have this option further limits none firebrands....

[Dante.1763]

> @"Linken.6345" said:

> > @"Dante.1763" said:

> > Im just curious why people want to nerf ranger/sb/druid so that its not welcome in content again, after literal *years* of not being welcome in any group content.

>

> Only heard Laila Lightness.8742 speak that in this thread noone else. Im a druid main in raids so would be bad for me.

 

Saddly ive seen players in game saying the same thing, kinda thinking they where trolling but still, its odd, hell ive seen people rejoicing the fact that ele was nerfed so bad that its not really wanted because it was on top of DPS for so long, i dont understand it at all.

[Morte de Angelis.7986]

> @"Zunki.3916" said:

> > @"Cyninja.2954" said:

> > > @"Astralporing.1957" said:

> > > > @"Laila Lightness.8742" said:

> > > > Druid is useless at healing even a venom share theif with zerker can do.better than druid in heal they are might bots nothing else druid needs more nerf to might and healing so no one ever picks it again. Thats what most of community wants anyway

> > > Nah, that's what a _few_ people complaining on forums want. **I'm pretty sure most of the community doesn't really care where their support comes from, as long as they do get that support, and as long as it's from someone _else_ than them.**

> > >

> > > **Ironically, most of people complaining also do not want to play support. They just hope the changes will miraculously free a slot for _their_ class.**

> >

> > Quoted for truth. Spot on analysis.

>

> Im fighting for equal useability of supporters/tanks so I can play the support I want. Fun fact: The new dual firebrand option is even worse than the current druid+1 meta as it locks both sup to firebrand (as we had it with druid for years)... So the option to have this option further limits none firebrands....

 

You can use Dual FB without holding up any support slots by going Quickness FB, that does quite a bit of Condi Damage in and of itself. You also have Rene that can also damage as well as give alacrity so if you really wanted you could still have 2 Druid and Quickness FB's with a Condi Rene losing 0 support slots. And if you need a tank a FB can swap to a Support FB but with more self healing and blocks rather then outgoing healing.

[Nimon.7840]

> @"Morte de Angelis.7986" said:

> > @"Zunki.3916" said:

> > > @"Cyninja.2954" said:

> > > > @"Astralporing.1957" said:

> > > > > @"Laila Lightness.8742" said:

> > > > > Druid is useless at healing even a venom share theif with zerker can do.better than druid in heal they are might bots nothing else druid needs more nerf to might and healing so no one ever picks it again. Thats what most of community wants anyway

> > > > Nah, that's what a _few_ people complaining on forums want. **I'm pretty sure most of the community doesn't really care where their support comes from, as long as they do get that support, and as long as it's from someone _else_ than them.**

> > > >

> > > > **Ironically, most of people complaining also do not want to play support. They just hope the changes will miraculously free a slot for _their_ class.**

> > >

> > > Quoted for truth. Spot on analysis.

> >

> > Im fighting for equal useability of supporters/tanks so I can play the support I want. Fun fact: The new dual firebrand option is even worse than the current druid+1 meta as it locks both sup to firebrand (as we had it with druid for years)... So the option to have this option further limits none firebrands....

>

> You can use Dual FB without holding up any support slots by going Quickness FB, that does quite a bit of Condi Damage in and of itself. You also have Rene that can also damage as well as give alacrity so if you really wanted you could still have 2 Druid and Quickness FB's with a Condi Rene losing 0 support slots. And if you need a tank a FB can swap to a Support FB but with more self healing and blocks rather then outgoing healing.

 

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vVAQRArf3fnsADFBjdBDWCBkCjF/BL7BVhyQ7V0NaI1KAUBqTA-jhhAQBgU5HA1PEtTCgN3fUCCR1fAwTAgUALqsC-e

 

Something like this?

 

Still chrono is better as it offers more boons than 2 firebrand,1 druid and a renegade

[Cyninja.2954]

> @"Nimon.7840" said:

> > @"Morte de Angelis.7986" said:

> > > @"Zunki.3916" said:

> > > > @"Cyninja.2954" said:

> > > > > @"Astralporing.1957" said:

> > > > > > @"Laila Lightness.8742" said:

> > > > > > Druid is useless at healing even a venom share theif with zerker can do.better than druid in heal they are might bots nothing else druid needs more nerf to might and healing so no one ever picks it again. Thats what most of community wants anyway

> > > > > Nah, that's what a _few_ people complaining on forums want. **I'm pretty sure most of the community doesn't really care where their support comes from, as long as they do get that support, and as long as it's from someone _else_ than them.**

> > > > >

> > > > > **Ironically, most of people complaining also do not want to play support. They just hope the changes will miraculously free a slot for _their_ class.**

> > > >

> > > > Quoted for truth. Spot on analysis.

> > >

> > > Im fighting for equal useability of supporters/tanks so I can play the support I want. Fun fact: The new dual firebrand option is even worse than the current druid+1 meta as it locks both sup to firebrand (as we had it with druid for years)... So the option to have this option further limits none firebrands....

> >

> > You can use Dual FB without holding up any support slots by going Quickness FB, that does quite a bit of Condi Damage in and of itself. You also have Rene that can also damage as well as give alacrity so if you really wanted you could still have 2 Druid and Quickness FB's with a Condi Rene losing 0 support slots. And if you need a tank a FB can swap to a Support FB but with more self healing and blocks rather then outgoing healing.

>

> http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vVAQRArf3fnsADFBjdBDWCBkCjF/BL7BVhyQ7V0NaI1KAUBqTA-jhhAQBgU5HA1PEtTCgN3fUCCR1fAwTAgUALqsC-e

>

> Something like this?

>

> Still chrono is better as it offers more boons than 2 firebrand,1 druid and a renegade

 

You mean how there is a best or top spot for each boss among the damage dealers? Yet people still can bring other classes and succeed.

 

People wanted alternatives to chrono support, no amount of change in this segment will open up more raid slots to damage dealers.

 

If double Firebrand outperformed double chrono, that composition would be run instead. It is literally impossible to balance supports so close that they are equally as viable. The only thing Arenanet can do is open up alternatives as well as possible and let players figure out what they want to run (which currently will still be favoring the old meta since people are used to that).

[Grogba.6204]

Can we instead talk about the elephant in the room being the **huuuuugeeeeee** skillgap between Chrono and DPS?

 

I love playing Chrono but it is hilariously how much players of that class have to perform compared to the average DPS who will neither adapt for a fight, change up his rotation in favour of CC (breaks, adds) nor do mechanics if he can avoid that but may the five have mercy on the Chrono who fatfingered his buff rotation or delayed a moa for too long. Pugging Qadim is a real eye opener in that regard and I think I'll let the next dps going all out against the reta pyre kill themselves _before_ removing the boon if they cannot wait two seconds for me to go there. /rant

 

Screw that, nerf Chrono then! I really want to see how all these players relying on their Chronos/Druids to crutch through content start to realize how terrible they actually are. /rant

 

 

[zombyturtle.5980]

> @"Grogba.6204" said:

> Can we instead talk about the elephant in the room being the **huuuuugeeeeee** skillgap between Chrono and DPS?

>

> I love playing Chrono but it is hilariously how much players of that class have to perform compared to the average DPS who will neither adapt for a fight, change up his rotation in favour of CC (breaks, adds) nor do mechanics if he can avoid that but may the five have mercy on the Chrono who fatfingered his buff rotation or delayed a moa for too long. Pugging Qadim is a real eye opener in that regard and I think I'll let the next dps going all out against the reta pyre kill themselves _before_ removing the boon if they cannot wait two seconds for me to go there. /rant

>

> Screw that, nerf Chrono then! I really want to see how all these players relying on their Chronos/Druids to crutch through content start to realize how terrible they actually are. /rant

>

>

 

I hate to create an us vs them. (multiclass/support vs dps only) but I cant help agree with this. Getting dps to actually do mechanics in pugs is worse than pulling teeth. 90% of xera wipes are because dps players cant be bothered to stop attacking the boss and clear 4 shards.. and the endless silence when commander asks 'whos doing shrooms' at sloth becomes painful.

 

It would be 100x worse if the utility chrono brings was nerfed and dps were responsible for even more things.

[Obtena.7952]

Meta pushers always make the game so much harder than it needs to be. I don't get any of these problems; I play and succeed with people that don't fuss about how others play. Why do you cling to tired ideas about the 'right' way to play?

 

So sad when you see a breed of players excluding each other into extinction.

[Morte de Angelis.7986]

> @"Nimon.7840" said:

> > @"Morte de Angelis.7986" said:

> > > @"Zunki.3916" said:

> > > > @"Cyninja.2954" said:

> > > > > @"Astralporing.1957" said:

> > > > > > @"Laila Lightness.8742" said:

> > > > > > Druid is useless at healing even a venom share theif with zerker can do.better than druid in heal they are might bots nothing else druid needs more nerf to might and healing so no one ever picks it again. Thats what most of community wants anyway

> > > > > Nah, that's what a _few_ people complaining on forums want. **I'm pretty sure most of the community doesn't really care where their support comes from, as long as they do get that support, and as long as it's from someone _else_ than them.**

> > > > >

> > > > > **Ironically, most of people complaining also do not want to play support. They just hope the changes will miraculously free a slot for _their_ class.**

> > > >

> > > > Quoted for truth. Spot on analysis.

> > >

> > > Im fighting for equal useability of supporters/tanks so I can play the support I want. Fun fact: The new dual firebrand option is even worse than the current druid+1 meta as it locks both sup to firebrand (as we had it with druid for years)... So the option to have this option further limits none firebrands....

> >

> > You can use Dual FB without holding up any support slots by going Quickness FB, that does quite a bit of Condi Damage in and of itself. You also have Rene that can also damage as well as give alacrity so if you really wanted you could still have 2 Druid and Quickness FB's with a Condi Rene losing 0 support slots. And if you need a tank a FB can swap to a Support FB but with more self healing and blocks rather then outgoing healing.

>

> http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vVAQRArf3fnsADFBjdBDWCBkCjF/BL7BVhyQ7V0NaI1KAUBqTA-jhhAQBgU5HA1PEtTCgN3fUCCR1fAwTAgUALqsC-e

>

> Something like this?

>

> Still chrono is better as it offers more boons than 2 firebrand,1 druid and a renegade

 

Yes, I know Chrono is still better but it isn't locking two support slots for dual FB, which is what I was commenting on. The Dual FB + Rev don't output the same amount of boons but make up for it but increasing their own Personal DPS. And honetly the boons isn't the biggest reason why Chrono is taken, its the sheer amount of Utility it has that makes it top spot with conjuction with CS that makes a lot of powerful skills have a shorter cooldown then it does normally (time warp / moa).

[Deepcuts.9740]

I really do not get the point of these topics.

If you think you know better, why don't you get your own squad going?

Nobody is preventing anybody from creating a squad using a thief as a healer and a druid as a dps. Just go for it, record your run then come brag all you want on forums.

You don't even need a tag!

More action less crying.

 

As a side note, now that I started playing dps in fractals and raids, I never yet got the chance to have a decent healer and a buffer at the same time, 2in1, that is not a druid.

I might be very unlucky. I leave that chance to somebody else.

[Sorin Noroku.5342]

So, I was reading along until I got to someone’s comment that made the most sense...

 

First, the issue is not “2 chrono, 1 druid, 1 warrior”, it’s the “6 dps spots”. In every mmo, there is tank/healer/dps... we have something similar but not the same in GW2. The issue is the same across the board. Some classes fit those 6 dps spots better than others. Some bring utility others don’t.

 

Second, the issue is still not the “2 chrono, 1 druid, 1 warrior”, even excluding the 6 dps spots. As I’ve seen noupdraft gors without chronos... I’ve done full w2 with no druid! (We used a chrono healer and a FB healer!)... I played the raids opening as a DH tank. Other comps are viable.. but the problem is, they’re not as good at compression. That’s where we ended at with our current raid comp meta. Role Compression. I remember the day a chrono joined saying they could tank. It compressed the slot of chrono and tank into one, and opened a dps slot. You have to fight THAT before you can fight the classes.

 

After saying that, I understand the hold that war/chrono/druid has on the raid comp, but still... this is by FAR the BEST balance we’ve had between ALL classes i’ve seen ever! Every elite spec is viable, and a lot of the base classes are close! (Dunno why you’d run some base classes but, whatever!)