Six years and the Necromancer is still... Underwhelming?

[Obtena.7952]

Asks about the state of necros after not playing for years

 

People currently playing the game give honest answers.

 

Proceeds to argue why those people are wrong because Epi.

 

Epic.

[Dadnir.5038]

> @"Obtena.7952" said:

> Asks about the state of necros after not playing for years

>

> People currently playing the game give honest answers.

>

> Proceeds to argue why those people are wrong because Epi.

>

> Epic.

 

The OP don't seem to be the one who argue thought.

[Obtena.7952]

> @"Dadnir.5038" said:

> > @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > Asks about the state of necros after not playing for years

> >

> > People currently playing the game give honest answers.

> >

> > Proceeds to argue why those people are wrong because Epi.

> >

> > Epic.

>

> The OP don't seem to be the one who argue thought.

 

True ... I have no problem with the OP's posts and it wasn't directed at him. I guess that wasn't very clear. Frankly, anyone that thinks Necro isn't currently in a good state because of Epi doesn't seem to understand what being in a good state is in the first place.

[MrMadMan.2904]

> @"Obtena.7952" said:

> Asks about the state of necros after not playing for years

>

> People currently playing the game give honest answers.

>

> Proceeds to argue why those people are wrong because Epi.

>

> Epic.

 

I haven't made any arguments. I just want to get the general impression of where the necromancer stands and so far it seems that, while its better than it used to be, it still lags behind other classes and even if you can match the damage you lack utilities for your team that other classes bring. At least in PvE. I appreciate everyone input even though I'm quite passive in the thread, but I really don't have much to add as I'm pretty much clueless.

[Amerikajinn.4635]

> @"MrMadMan.2904" said:

>

> I haven't made any arguments. I just want to get the general impression of where the necromancer stands and so far it seems that, while its better than it used to be, it still lags behind other classes and even if you can match the damage you lack utilities for your team that other classes bring. At least in PvE. I appreciate everyone input even though I'm quite passive in the thread, but I really don't have much to add as I'm pretty much clueless.

 

I don't like to pull this card too often, but take it from one of the players who helps out with the Necromancer portions of the Snow Crows website. When you say lags behind the context is extremely important. While the maximum damage capability of Necro is lower, there are other reasons to birng it to the table when you stop considering the SC-level groups, and even the 99th and 90th percentile groups.

 

Reaper has a lot more bulk to it compared to some other dps classes, and while for Power it is a straight dps loss to allow yourself to run out of life force it can allow you to stay alive then save your team in a pinch (especially if you're running Blood Magic for the revival power). Additionally, Power Reaper has ample amounts of self-generated Might, Quickness and Vulnerability which allows it to function magnificently has a "solo carry" class.

 

And this theme of being a fantastic solo carry works for all four "major" playstyles of Necro in high-end content. Condi Reaper builds can trade 10% of their damage output for an enormous amount of sustain via Parasitic Contagion should the situation require it, Condi Scourge can easily add a supportive tool or two to its build and not lose out on dps, Support Scourge while not great at sharing boons is a fantastic second healer that can save groups from the brink of defeat. I can go on and on and on about what makes Necro great at the moment.

 

Yes, Epidemic was one of our most powerful tools and was nerfed; but the state of one skill doesn't have a bearing on the fact that as far as balance AND community opinion goes Necromancer is in the best spot it has been in since launch. Surging popularity from Teapots recent Necro videos, favorable balance for Power Reaper, QoL upgrades, etc. All of these contribute to the community opinion of Necro being so good right now.

 

In closing, yes Necro most likely wouldn't be used in groups that want to run the "optimal" composition. But outside of static guild groups you can never really be sure if running the optimal comp will win out over the effective one that allows people to play at their best.

 

When it comes to profession performance in content, the number one factor is player skill after all. Everything else comes second.

 

 

[Xxnecroxx.4039]

> @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > @"Dadnir.5038" said:

> > > @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > > Asks about the state of necros after not playing for years

> > >

> > > People currently playing the game give honest answers.

> > >

> > > Proceeds to argue why those people are wrong because Epi.

> > >

> > > Epic.

> >

> > The OP don't seem to be the one who argue thought.

>

> True ... I have no problem with the OP's posts and it wasn't directed at him. I guess that wasn't very clear. Frankly, anyone that thinks Necro isn't currently in a good state because of Epi doesn't seem to understand what being in a good state is in the first place.

 

its NOT just epi that made necro and I know that, it is just one of the things that made necro good and still decent even after all the nerfing until now epi is kinda just trash and useless at this point

[Xxnecroxx.4039]

@"Amerikajinn.4635"

yet here is a thing I want to play end content like challenge fractals and raids with my necro, yet due to necros spot the odds of me being allowed into a group are next to none and me making a group will take forever to fill because necros are in a shit spot, better to be OP in PVE then to be super weak like necros are, and why do we need nerfs in PVE? just buff the other classes up to make them as fun as necros are (were at the time) but now condi necro feels shit to play and even power necro is meh at best, if I wanted to go support I would just swap to my auramancer ele and get tons more value while still dealing decent damage. right now necro as a whole just needs buffs and more so condi necro, it really should be king of condis instead of Mesmer/ranger which is BS

[Jimbru.6014]

Necro may not be considered raid meta, but now it's at least reasonable to play in all modes. I love my support Scourge.

 

 

[Amerikajinn.4635]

> @"Xxnecroxx.4039" said:

> yet here is a thing I want to play end content like challenge fractals and raids with my necro, yet due to necros spot the odds of me being allowed into a group are next to none and me making a group will take forever to fill because necros are in a kitten spot, better to be OP in PVE then to be super weak like necros are, and why do we need nerfs in PVE? just buff the other classes up to make them as fun as necros are (were at the time) but now condi necro feels kitten to play and even power necro is meh at best, if I wanted to go support I would just swap to my auramancer ele and get tons more value while still dealing decent damage. right now necro as a whole just needs buffs and more so condi necro, it really should be king of condis instead of Mesmer/ranger which is BS

 

So there's a bit to unpack here, so I'll address things one at a time:

 

>yet here is a thing I want to play end content like challenge fractals and raids with my necro, yet due to necros spot the odds of me being allowed into a group are next to none and me making a group will take forever to fill

 

This is already a bit of a subjective point as it depends on the player. I rarely have to wait long for a group for fractals and the like and even more rarely have to "justify" my choice to bring a Condi Reaper to CM attempts.

 

>necros are in a kitten spot, better to be OP in PVE then to be super weak like necros are, and why do we need nerfs in PVE?

 

Might I ask what you think it is about Necro that justifies calling it super weak? It's true its damage cap ins't as high but there are other factors at play than just raw damage. (I also didn't say we "need" nerfs?)

 

>but now condi necro feels kitten to play and even power necro is meh at best, if I wanted to go support I would just swap to my auramancer ele and get tons more value while still dealing decent damage

 

This sounds like a preference issue at this point. Playstyle has just as much bearing on enjoyment of a class if not more than the results you can get with it. If you don't enjoy playing the build and want to play something else then why don't you, there's nothing stopping you. Without you elaborating on why you think things are "kitten to play" or meh, I can't really discuss this further.

[Catchyfx.5768]

Right Now every class have atleast 3 good builds

[madamred.1463]

i absolutely adore power reaper myself maybe that's just me then again i main;y only do pvp and wvw

[Dadnir.5038]

> @"madamred.1463" said:

> i absolutely adore power reaper myself maybe that's just me then again i main;y only do pvp and wvw

 

Which is totally understandable since the necromancer's tools are very effective against players and even more in large scale battle. Objectively, the necromancer's community always ponder about the same issue without clearly stating it which is that the necromancer hoover between a relatively low performance in PvE and a dangerously strong performance in PvP/WvW. Coupled with ANet's policy to avoid to many split and prioritize "numbers" balance the necromancer always stand in an awkward position where either PvP/WvW player cry that it is OP or PvE players grieve on it's poor performance.

 

ANet did a lot to reduce the necromancer's inegalities between gamemodes, this is not something that we can deny. However, in my opinion, the way they did it wasn't wise, it impoverished PvE general gameplay and, on the side of the necromancer, it is bound to create issues with each new e-spec released.

[Axl.8924]

> @"Xxnecroxx.4039" said:

> @"Amerikajinn.4635"

> yet here is a thing I want to play end content like challenge fractals and raids with my necro, yet due to necros spot the odds of me being allowed into a group are next to none and me making a group will take forever to fill because necros are in a kitten spot, better to be OP in PVE then to be super weak like necros are, and why do we need nerfs in PVE? just buff the other classes up to make them as fun as necros are (were at the time) but now condi necro feels kitten to play and even power necro is meh at best, if I wanted to go support I would just swap to my auramancer ele and get tons more value while still dealing decent damage. right now necro as a whole just needs buffs and more so condi necro, it really should be king of condis instead of Mesmer/ranger which is BS

 

As it happens, tempest aren't the best either, but they still got better buffers than scourge. Its just that tempest can put out a relatively high amount of heals, but that's a totally different topic. Scourge I hear can heal a bit, but its true support scourge is niche. Tempest isn't as good or as competitive as Firebrand or chronomancer, but its getting there.Its issues is totally different too, since tempest is kind of in a void of being in the shadow of weaver spec, which performs better in dps, sort of like how reaper was in the shadow of scourge at launch, and people asked it to get buffed as support.

 

Reaper on the other hand has a fair amount of damage, so it should be viable for high end fractals. Reapers should also be viable for raids, since they can hit fairly hard.

 

Thing is though: I am not sure if you are talking specifically about core, which right now isn't in the best spot. It got buffed sure, but its still gimped in a lot of aspects due to power creep.

 

[Xxnecroxx.4039]

> @"Axl.8924" said:

> > @"Xxnecroxx.4039" said:

> > @"Amerikajinn.4635"

> > yet here is a thing I want to play end content like challenge fractals and raids with my necro, yet due to necros spot the odds of me being allowed into a group are next to none and me making a group will take forever to fill because necros are in a kitten spot, better to be OP in PVE then to be super weak like necros are, and why do we need nerfs in PVE? just buff the other classes up to make them as fun as necros are (were at the time) but now condi necro feels kitten to play and even power necro is meh at best, if I wanted to go support I would just swap to my auramancer ele and get tons more value while still dealing decent damage. right now necro as a whole just needs buffs and more so condi necro, it really should be king of condis instead of Mesmer/ranger which is BS

>

> As it happens, tempest aren't the best either, but they still got better buffers than scourge. Its just that tempest can put out a relatively high amount of heals, but that's a totally different topic. Scourge I hear can heal a bit, but its true support scourge is niche. Tempest isn't as good or as competitive as Firebrand or chronomancer, but its getting there.Its issues is totally different too, since tempest is kind of in a void of being in the shadow of weaver spec, which performs better in dps, sort of like how reaper was in the shadow of scourge at launch, and people asked it to get buffed as support.

>

> Reaper on the other hand has a fair amount of damage, so it should be viable for high end fractals. Reapers should also be viable for raids, since they can hit fairly hard.

>

> Thing is though: I am not sure if you are talking specifically about core, which right now isn't in the best spot. It got buffed sure, but its still kitten in a lot of aspects due to power creep.

>

 

im talking about necro in general including the elite specs, yes core necro is bad which has most of the lines, elite specs can only take up 1 of the 3 lines not only is core necro bad (btw this is all PVE) but also reaper and scourge (for condi damage) when you think condi you should think NECRO, currently necros for condi is boon corrupt bots and that's it, only enemy that receives constant boons enough to make damage good is players, nothing in PVE

[Axl.8924]

> @"Xxnecroxx.4039" said:

> > @"Axl.8924" said:

> > > @"Xxnecroxx.4039" said:

> > > @"Amerikajinn.4635"

> > > yet here is a thing I want to play end content like challenge fractals and raids with my necro, yet due to necros spot the odds of me being allowed into a group are next to none and me making a group will take forever to fill because necros are in a kitten spot, better to be OP in PVE then to be super weak like necros are, and why do we need nerfs in PVE? just buff the other classes up to make them as fun as necros are (were at the time) but now condi necro feels kitten to play and even power necro is meh at best, if I wanted to go support I would just swap to my auramancer ele and get tons more value while still dealing decent damage. right now necro as a whole just needs buffs and more so condi necro, it really should be king of condis instead of Mesmer/ranger which is BS

> >

> > As it happens, tempest aren't the best either, but they still got better buffers than scourge. Its just that tempest can put out a relatively high amount of heals, but that's a totally different topic. Scourge I hear can heal a bit, but its true support scourge is niche. Tempest isn't as good or as competitive as Firebrand or chronomancer, but its getting there.Its issues is totally different too, since tempest is kind of in a void of being in the shadow of weaver spec, which performs better in dps, sort of like how reaper was in the shadow of scourge at launch, and people asked it to get buffed as support.

> >

> > Reaper on the other hand has a fair amount of damage, so it should be viable for high end fractals. Reapers should also be viable for raids, since they can hit fairly hard.

> >

> > Thing is though: I am not sure if you are talking specifically about core, which right now isn't in the best spot. It got buffed sure, but its still kitten in a lot of aspects due to power creep.

> >

>

> im talking about necro in general including the elite specs, yes core necro is bad which has most of the lines, elite specs can only take up 1 of the 3 lines not only is core necro bad (btw this is all PVE) but also reaper and scourge (for condi damage) when you think condi you should think NECRO, currently necros for condi is boon corrupt bots and that's it, only enemy that receives constant boons enough to make damage good is players, nothing in PVE

 

Condi everything was nerfed, not just necro. Look at for instance elementalists and how mirages are getting condi nerfs a lot.This is a very power meta centric. Scourge was gutted in spvp and pve and made power because the amount of incessant whining and QQ, but it can still deal a bit of condi from boom corrupts, its just not spammable anymore.

 

[Nimon.7840]

> @"Axl.8924" said:

> > @"Xxnecroxx.4039" said:

> > @"Amerikajinn.4635"

> > yet here is a thing I want to play end content like challenge fractals and raids with my necro, yet due to necros spot the odds of me being allowed into a group are next to none and me making a group will take forever to fill because necros are in a kitten spot, better to be OP in PVE then to be super weak like necros are, and why do we need nerfs in PVE? just buff the other classes up to make them as fun as necros are (were at the time) but now condi necro feels kitten to play and even power necro is meh at best, if I wanted to go support I would just swap to my auramancer ele and get tons more value while still dealing decent damage. right now necro as a whole just needs buffs and more so condi necro, it really should be king of condis instead of Mesmer/ranger which is BS

>

> As it happens, tempest aren't the best either, but they still got better buffers than scourge. Its just that tempest can put out a relatively high amount of heals, but that's a totally different topic. Scourge I hear can heal a bit, but its true support scourge is niche. Tempest isn't as good or as competitive as Firebrand or chronomancer, but its getting there.Its issues is totally different too, since tempest is kind of in a void of being in the shadow of weaver spec, which performs better in dps, sort of like how reaper was in the shadow of scourge at launch, and people asked it to get buffed as support.

>

> Reaper on the other hand has a fair amount of damage, so it should be viable for high end fractals. Reapers should also be viable for raids, since they can hit fairly hard.

>

> Thing is though: I am not sure if you are talking specifically about core, which right now isn't in the best spot. It got buffed sure, but its still kitten in a lot of aspects due to power creep.

>

 

While I think, that necro is in a good spot for fractals. Mostly because of scepter 3 change and scourge.

But still most people aren't looking for necros. Instead they just look for the top DPS classes like engi and thief.

But even if you are a very good necro, you will get kicked sometimes.

I got kicked after not beating a boss.

I was placed number one in DPS, didn't go down once, put barrier on my mates and rezzing them.

 

They continuously went downstate, and guess what. They blamed me for not being a warrior and kicked me.

 

 

While in raids necro isnt in a good spot.

It has only very niche use at some bosses but even there you might be better of with other classes.

Only thing where necro shines is Mathias, but then it's a support build with lots of healpower.

 

And in other cases, necro is just subpar.

The Condi builds are way weaker than the builds of other classes

And the only power build is very conditional.

 

I'd rather take a no-kit holo than a power reaper.

 

Just to make sure why I would do that:

 

1. Almost the same DPS

2. Rotation wise reaper is definetly more challenging than holo, so it's more likely to fail the rotation

3. Holo isn't as much dependant on the healers than necro.

- holo just has to be over 90% for scholar bonus. If he takes dmg, you just heal him up. And you can continue doing dmg/the rotation

- necro takes dmg and has a problem then, when the rotation tells you to go into shroud, you go into shroud, under 90% loosing scholar bonus for the whole time you are in shroud.

- or do you wait for your healer, to heal you back up? Which is also dmg loss, because you have to delay your shroud and maybe you are on axe and have to start auto attacking.

 

- if holo takes retaliation dmg, like on gorse or ambient dmg like arena ticks, you can heal him back up, and he doesn't loose dmg

- necro again has a problem while being in shroud, if you take dmg in shroud, shroud will drown faster, so you won't be as long in shroud as you want to be. So you have to make a decision: loose dmg by staying in shroud and going under 50% lifeforce (10% dmg loss)

Or go out of shroud earlier, being sometimes forced to do axe autos which will lead to another big dmg loss.

 

And then engi has AED, which might keep him alive in high dmg situations, while necro uses up to 3 pets that have long casttimes. And it sucks to have to cast them infight again, because they died.

 

 

It's nice that reaper got buffed, but I think it's not nearly enough to compete with the other classes.

[Axl.8924]

> @"Nimon.7840" said:

> > @"Axl.8924" said:

> > > @"Xxnecroxx.4039" said:

> > > @"Amerikajinn.4635"

> > > yet here is a thing I want to play end content like challenge fractals and raids with my necro, yet due to necros spot the odds of me being allowed into a group are next to none and me making a group will take forever to fill because necros are in a kitten spot, better to be OP in PVE then to be super weak like necros are, and why do we need nerfs in PVE? just buff the other classes up to make them as fun as necros are (were at the time) but now condi necro feels kitten to play and even power necro is meh at best, if I wanted to go support I would just swap to my auramancer ele and get tons more value while still dealing decent damage. right now necro as a whole just needs buffs and more so condi necro, it really should be king of condis instead of Mesmer/ranger which is BS

> >

> > As it happens, tempest aren't the best either, but they still got better buffers than scourge. Its just that tempest can put out a relatively high amount of heals, but that's a totally different topic. Scourge I hear can heal a bit, but its true support scourge is niche. Tempest isn't as good or as competitive as Firebrand or chronomancer, but its getting there.Its issues is totally different too, since tempest is kind of in a void of being in the shadow of weaver spec, which performs better in dps, sort of like how reaper was in the shadow of scourge at launch, and people asked it to get buffed as support.

> >

> > Reaper on the other hand has a fair amount of damage, so it should be viable for high end fractals. Reapers should also be viable for raids, since they can hit fairly hard.

> >

> > Thing is though: I am not sure if you are talking specifically about core, which right now isn't in the best spot. It got buffed sure, but its still kitten in a lot of aspects due to power creep.

> >

>

> While I think, that necro is in a good spot for fractals. Mostly because of scepter 3 change and scourge.

> But still most people aren't looking for necros. Instead they just look for the top DPS classes like engi and thief.

> But even if you are a very good necro, you will get kicked sometimes.

> I got kicked after not beating a boss.

> I was placed number one in DPS, didn't go down once, put barrier on my mates and rezzing them.

>

> They continuously went downstate, and guess what. They blamed me for not being a warrior and kicked me.

>

>

> While in raids necro isnt in a good spot.

> It has only very niche use at some bosses but even there you might be better of with other classes.

> Only thing where necro shines is Mathias, but then it's a support build with lots of healpower.

>

> And in other cases, necro is just subpar.

> The Condi builds are way weaker than the builds of other classes

> And the only power build is very conditional.

>

> I'd rather take a no-kit holo than a power reaper.

>

> Just to make sure why I would do that:

>

> 1. Almost the same DPS

> 2. Rotation wise reaper is definetly more challenging than holo, so it's more likely to fail the rotation

> 3. Holo isn't as much dependant on the healers than necro.

> - holo just has to be over 90% for scholar bonus. If he takes dmg, you just heal him up. And you can continue doing dmg/the rotation

> - necro takes dmg and has a problem then, when the rotation tells you to go into shroud, you go into shroud, under 90% loosing scholar bonus for the whole time you are in shroud.

> - or do you wait for your healer, to heal you back up? Which is also dmg loss, because you have to delay your shroud and maybe you are on axe and have to start auto attacking.

>

> - if holo takes retaliation dmg, like on gorse or ambient dmg like arena ticks, you can heal him back up, and he doesn't loose dmg

> - necro again has a problem while being in shroud, if you take dmg in shroud, shroud will drown faster, so you won't be as long in shroud as you want to be. So you have to make a decision: loose dmg by staying in shroud and going under 50% lifeforce (10% dmg loss)

> Or go out of shroud earlier, being sometimes forced to do axe autos which will lead to another big dmg loss.

>

> And then engi has AED, which might keep him alive in high dmg situations, while necro uses up to 3 pets that have long casttimes. And it sucks to have to cast them infight again, because they died.

>

>

> It's nice that reaper got buffed, but I think it's not nearly enough to compete with the other classes.

 

That's possibly because holosmith are over performing.I also think Necros could use some buffs in survivability outside reaper shroud, because it sucks to have form go down super fast.Necros could use faster way to generate life force, maybe a few changes to damage in shroud to make camping full shroud worth using.

[Lonami.2987]

I think the biggest design mistake around necromancer is not giving him a minion master mechanic. Death Shroud is nice and all, but it doesn't really fit what necromancer is supposed to be. Even the mesmer seems to have more minion mastery capabilities than the necromancer, with the shatters and clones/phantasms being easily summonable through weapon skills.

 

Anyway, [few redesign ideas here.](https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/23149/how-would-you-redesign-the-necromancer) I still hope we get a real minion master elite specialization some day.

[Anchoku.8142]

There are still issues with Necromancer and its elites but, with the nerfs to other professions (except Mesmer) and some improvements to Necro, it is not ridiculously weak, anymore.

 

I see lots of Necromancers in game, now. That means something.

[Catchyfx.5768]

pReaper is I dare to say Meta DPS for fractals

Teapot's support scourge makes every run succesfull run.

Condi dmg is little bit behind thats true.

Someone brings Viper/Grieving Condi reaper to get 30k. thats nice too.

 

But to the point :)

One of the reasons why ppl kick necro is because...players are just dumb. Thats all.

If you are using brain and have some experience with game you know that benchmark is sweet wet dream that happends only with ideal setup, other good players and lot of comunication, and even then real dps drops and isnt 100% to benchmark. Which leads me to questions.

- how many realy good people you meet ? I'm pugging every day and I tell you if it's once per week or two its holyday. Most of the time I play with Zerker Druids and warriors that put banners and die. Players runs like chickens until first aoe pops up etc.I would say 60-30-10 Shitty-casual-meta capable is the ratio.

 

If you dont plan to make Speedclear records you will be pretty much OK with necro. Unlike other classes Necro(pReaper for example) can realisticly hit his 31k even in bad groups, only thing you need is fury and alacrity. even without it you can do 26-28 idk..

Most Important thing is Necro have all this builds listed in those benchmarks so common dumb folks know that there are "meta builds" so you dont get insta kick if necro.

 

Another thing is to necro players to improve. I see really many necros running exactly everything what is wroted in the build. (again pReaper for example Spite,SR,Reaper)

In 99 Fractal with toxic Trail and other condi handicap they take blood fiend, dmg well,fiend,power signet and golem. You can Swap Fiend for Well of Power and heal for another well (whirl finisher cleanse) or Vampiric Signet put on CD for group heal and little tine dps boost. These 2 thing will drop your Dps lets say max 1-1,5k even if 3K you boost your group with every condi on you and your teamates. Or switching offhands for best result.

 

Or you have bad healer but are in midlle of the run drop 1 traitline for Blood Magic-> Vampiric presence and go wells yeah you drop 5k DPS but you dont wipe.

I think lot of people forget about this and just play what someone wrote. I mean losing 5k isnt a thing if you help other does dps.

 

I personaly running right now more classess so necro sleeps most of the time and I using him only for daily fractals. But while playing other classes. Im getting to situations where I say to myself " damn...If there will be good necro this stuff will be so EZ!".

 

So my result:

 

If I started year and something ago playing this game. In Benchmarks was 10k differences. Right now its 38(unrealistic) vs 29 realistic which is totally OK!

Necro can bring unique buffs to team (yes not Offensive(maybe vampiric presence)) but makes everything ezier if are playing by people with brain and situational awareness.

[Xxnecroxx.4039]

> @"Lonami.2987" said:

> I think the biggest design mistake around necromancer is not giving him a minion master mechanic. Death Shroud is nice and all, but it doesn't really fit what necromancer is supposed to be. Even the mesmer seems to have more minion mastery capabilities than the necromancer, with the shatters and clones/phantasms being easily summonable through weapon skills.

>

> Anyway, [few redesign ideas here.](https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/23149/how-would-you-redesign-the-necromancer) I still hope we get a real minion master elite specialization some day.

 

I hope we get a PURE condi spec before that, we have had a power/condi hybrid and support/condi hybrid now I just wan a PURE HARD Condi spec THAT DOES NOT REVOLVE AROUND BOON CORRUPT *COUGH COUGH*

[Obtena.7952]

> @"Xxnecroxx.4039" said:

> > @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > > @"Dadnir.5038" said:

> > > > @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > > > Asks about the state of necros after not playing for years

> > > >

> > > > People currently playing the game give honest answers.

> > > >

> > > > Proceeds to argue why those people are wrong because Epi.

> > > >

> > > > Epic.

> > >

> > > The OP don't seem to be the one who argue thought.

> >

> > True ... I have no problem with the OP's posts and it wasn't directed at him. I guess that wasn't very clear. Frankly, anyone that thinks Necro isn't currently in a good state because of Epi doesn't seem to understand what being in a good state is in the first place.

>

> its NOT just epi that made necro and I know that, it is just one of the things that made necro good and still decent even after all the nerfing until now epi is kinda just trash and useless at this point

 

OK ... but that doesn't relate much to the thread does it? Necro IS in a good spot right now; no reason to argue with people about Epi in it.

[MrMadMan.2904]

> @"Amerikajinn.4635" said:

> > @"MrMadMan.2904" said:

> >

> > I haven't made any arguments. I just want to get the general impression of where the necromancer stands and so far it seems that, while its better than it used to be, it still lags behind other classes and even if you can match the damage you lack utilities for your team that other classes bring. At least in PvE. I appreciate everyone input even though I'm quite passive in the thread, but I really don't have much to add as I'm pretty much clueless.

>

> I don't like to pull this card too often, but take it from one of the players who helps out with the Necromancer portions of the Snow Crows website. When you say lags behind the context is extremely important. While the maximum damage capability of Necro is lower, there are other reasons to birng it to the table when you stop considering the SC-level groups, and even the 99th and 90th percentile groups.

>

> Reaper has a lot more bulk to it compared to some other dps classes, and while for Power it is a straight dps loss to allow yourself to run out of life force it can allow you to stay alive then save your team in a pinch (especially if you're running Blood Magic for the revival power). Additionally, Power Reaper has ample amounts of self-generated Might, Quickness and Vulnerability which allows it to function magnificently has a "solo carry" class.

>

> And this theme of being a fantastic solo carry works for all four "major" playstyles of Necro in high-end content. Condi Reaper builds can trade 10% of their damage output for an enormous amount of sustain via Parasitic Contagion should the situation require it, Condi Scourge can easily add a supportive tool or two to its build and not lose out on dps, Support Scourge while not great at sharing boons is a fantastic second healer that can save groups from the brink of defeat. I can go on and on and on about what makes Necro great at the moment.

>

> Yes, Epidemic was one of our most powerful tools and was nerfed; but the state of one skill doesn't have a bearing on the fact that as far as balance AND community opinion goes Necromancer is in the best spot it has been in since launch. Surging popularity from Teapots recent Necro videos, favorable balance for Power Reaper, QoL upgrades, etc. All of these contribute to the community opinion of Necro being so good right now.

>

> In closing, yes Necro most likely wouldn't be used in groups that want to run the "optimal" composition. But outside of static guild groups you can never really be sure if running the optimal comp will win out over the effective one that allows people to play at their best.

>

> When it comes to profession performance in content, the number one factor is player skill after all. Everything else comes second.

>

>

 

I hear (or see, I suppose) what you're saying. I've sen many arguments about necromancer being good in groups with inexperienced or non-hardcore players and when I said I had the impression that it lagged behind I didn't mean by a massive amount, just that it seems like other classes can bring a few more things to the table. Then again, I don't have a great understanding of the viability of a lot of the other classes (except for chronomancer and druid who seem mandatory). But as you said - necromancer wouldn't likely be used in an "optimal composition" - and I think that even players who are at a level where having the optimal composition doesn't matter still have that in mind. That has at least been my experience in other games.

[Xxnecroxx.4039]

> @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > @"Xxnecroxx.4039" said:

> > > @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > > > @"Dadnir.5038" said:

> > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > > > > Asks about the state of necros after not playing for years

> > > > >

> > > > > People currently playing the game give honest answers.

> > > > >

> > > > > Proceeds to argue why those people are wrong because Epi.

> > > > >

> > > > > Epic.

> > > >

> > > > The OP don't seem to be the one who argue thought.

> > >

> > > True ... I have no problem with the OP's posts and it wasn't directed at him. I guess that wasn't very clear. Frankly, anyone that thinks Necro isn't currently in a good state because of Epi doesn't seem to understand what being in a good state is in the first place.

> >

> > its NOT just epi that made necro and I know that, it is just one of the things that made necro good and still decent even after all the nerfing until now epi is kinda just trash and useless at this point

>

> OK ... but that doesn't relate much to the thread does it? Necro IS in a good spot right now; no reason to argue with people about Epi in it.

 

if necro is in a good spot right now why is it it feels im hitting stuff with a wet noodle when im condi reaper? or condi scourge? unless they have boons then I hit with a non-wet noodle. sure necro may be fine in PVP/WVW but in PVE they are SORELY lacking

[Axl.8924]

> @"Xxnecroxx.4039" said:

> > @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > > @"Xxnecroxx.4039" said:

> > > > @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > > > > @"Dadnir.5038" said:

> > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > > > > > Asks about the state of necros after not playing for years

> > > > > >

> > > > > > People currently playing the game give honest answers.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Proceeds to argue why those people are wrong because Epi.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Epic.

> > > > >

> > > > > The OP don't seem to be the one who argue thought.

> > > >

> > > > True ... I have no problem with the OP's posts and it wasn't directed at him. I guess that wasn't very clear. Frankly, anyone that thinks Necro isn't currently in a good state because of Epi doesn't seem to understand what being in a good state is in the first place.

> > >

> > > its NOT just epi that made necro and I know that, it is just one of the things that made necro good and still decent even after all the nerfing until now epi is kinda just trash and useless at this point

> >

> > OK ... but that doesn't relate much to the thread does it? Necro IS in a good spot right now; no reason to argue with people about Epi in it.

>

> if necro is in a good spot right now why is it it feels im hitting stuff with a wet noodle when im condi reaper? or condi scourge? unless they have boons then I hit with a non-wet noodle. sure necro may be fine in PVP/WVW but in PVE they are SORELY lacking

 

I can answer that.

 

Anet has its hands tied behind their back in that, they are in a situation that if they buff reaper a lot more, people in spvp will cry and it will end up being gutted.

 

People are already crying about reaper damage, and chill got nerfed in spvp because of the QQ.