Arlette.9684 Posted November 1, 2018 Share Posted November 1, 2018 > @"Amaranthe.3578" said: > > @"cryorion.9532" said: > > > @"apharma.3741" said: > > > > @"cryorion.9532" said: > > > > > @"apharma.3741" said: > > > > > > @"cryorion.9532" said: > > > > > > > @"viquing.8254" said: > > > > > > > > @"cryorion.9532" said: > > > > > > > > Mesmer in general is the most op class in game because of it's toolkit. The class has access to basically everything. > > > > > > > > Why some people even argue that it's not, is beyond me. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Talk about toolkit, what did you think about FB : > > > > > > > * Every boon in the game apart alacrity. > > > > > > > * Access to 7 different conditions. > > > > > > > * 1 pull with a 5.25 sec cd during F1, 1 Knock back aoe CC on 24 sec cd, 1 pull on a 12 sec CD, 1 taunt on a 2.75 sec CD during F3, > > > > > > > * Water, light and fire combo fields, 1 blast Finisher, > > > > > > > * A reflect buble on a 5.25 sec CD during F3, a face reflect on a 15 cd. > > > > > > > * A target teleport. > > > > > > > * 7 Breakstunt on short CD and some stability stacks. > > > > > > > * Somes condiclear. > > > > > > > * A good healing teamplay ability even when build for 1v1 point holder. > > > > > > > * Most of skills have aoe effect (on allies or ennemies.) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So apart portal. **Only portal**. No, mesmer haven't the best toolkit, even if we don't look at FB extreme. > > > > > > > That said, even on class that haven't much variety in their toolkit, they are more performant at the little tool they have. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > FB can't disengage so easily and doesn't have access to stealth, you forgot that for some reason. > > > > > > Please, don't act like FB is more op than mirage/chrono. Although, I am not saying FB is not op. > > > > > > Also, it's generalized for all game modes. > > > > > > > > > > No, FB is objectively and has always been more OP than mirage. That is a well regarded fact by any decent PvP player since PoF. The only time FB has dipped in how strong it was is when people literally ran 5 scourges because of how busted and faceroll it was, even then FB with scourge was considered an alternative option. That is without mentioning that other PvP mode (WvW) where it is so mandatory that people will literally stop playing if there aren't the right number supporting everyone. > > > > > > > > Ok, let's try it another way... > > > > What do you think mesmer class is missing? What kind of utility? I wrote that mesmer in general is op because of its toolkit. Because they have everything. Firebrand doesn't have everything. And arguments, that it doesn't need everything, are silly. > > > > The toolkit isn't only about healing and PvP... > > > > > > What is mesmer missing? Are we talking a hypothetical unicorn build that can never exist or real builds that can exist? Mesmer can't have it all in one build unlike FB which has almost everything in 1 build. > > > > > > Let me refer you to an excellent post: > > > > > > > @"viquing.8254" said: > > > > > @"cryorion.9532" said: > > > > > Mesmer in general is the most op class in game because of it's toolkit. The class has access to basically everything. > > > > > Why some people even argue that it's not, is beyond me. > > > > > > > > Talk about toolkit, what did you think about FB : > > > > * Every boon in the game apart alacrity. > > > > * Access to 7 different conditions. > > > > * 1 pull with a 5.25 sec cd during F1, 1 Knock back aoe CC on 24 sec cd, 1 pull on a 12 sec CD, 1 taunt on a 2.75 sec CD during F3, > > > > * Water, light and fire combo fields, 1 blast Finisher, > > > > * A reflect buble on a 5.25 sec CD during F3, a face reflect on a 15 cd. > > > > * A target teleport. > > > > * 7 Breakstunt on short CD and some stability stacks. > > > > * Somes condiclear. > > > > * A good healing teamplay ability even when build for 1v1 point holder. > > > > * Most of skills have aoe effect (on allies or ennemies.) > > > > > > > > So apart portal. **Only portal**. No, mesmer haven't the best toolkit, even if we don't look at FB extreme. > > > > That said, even on class that haven't much variety in their toolkit, they are more performant at the little tool they have. > > > > > > > > > > > For the 10th time, I was talking about class in general. That means everything the class has access to. All you do, is comapre one meta build of firebrand in PvP which is obviously overpowered, but act like mesmer isn't op at all. Mesmer/chrono/mirage have always access to self/mass stealth, self ports, portal, distortion, reflects, heavy cc, boon management, blinds, ... > > Firebrand is op as elite spec. Mesmer is op as whole class. If you read what I wrote before, you would probably know that I was talking about the class in general. > > What did I even think coming on mesmer forum, trying to argue... > > The amount of BS in that post could fertalize a harvest. And still have leftovers for next season. 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tinyreborn.1938 Posted November 1, 2018 Share Posted November 1, 2018 > @"Fat Disgrace.4275" said: > A lot of people are making the mistake of tab cycle through. Do your self a favour and delete that key bind. Thats one of my favorite buttons ,helping with newly revealed target > The real mesmer will have a red triangle pointing down at them, above their heads. You mean downedstate icon I guess? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Disgrace.4275 Posted November 1, 2018 Share Posted November 1, 2018 > @"tinyreborn.1938" said: > > @"Fat Disgrace.4275" said: > > A lot of people are making the mistake of tab cycle through. Do your self a favour and delete that key bind. > Thats one of my favorite buttons ,helping with newly revealed target > > The real mesmer will have a red triangle pointing down at them, above their heads. > You mean downedstate icon I guess? No, down state is not a red triangle. I have caps lock for closest target for the revealed target. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tinyreborn.1938 Posted November 1, 2018 Share Posted November 1, 2018 > @"Fat Disgrace.4275" said: Then I dont understand . Clone/real mesmer have same thing unless you wanna demonstrate what you mean ,otherwise I dont understand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aridon.8362 Posted November 1, 2018 Share Posted November 1, 2018 Targeting isn't the major issue it's the ability to spam evade and go invincible and blind over and over again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Disgrace.4275 Posted November 1, 2018 Share Posted November 1, 2018 > @"tinyreborn.1938" said: > > @"Fat Disgrace.4275" said: > Then I dont understand . Clone/real mesmer have same thing unless you wanna demonstrate what you mean ,otherwise I dont understand. Tried to find a video of someone fighting a mesmer but it's to small to notice on my phone. Tabbing imo is a bad habit and sometimes just takes to long target the person/mesmer you really want with tab. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tinyreborn.1938 Posted November 1, 2018 Share Posted November 1, 2018 > @"Fat Disgrace.4275" said: > > @"tinyreborn.1938" said: > > > @"Fat Disgrace.4275" said: > > Then I dont understand . Clone/real mesmer have same thing unless you wanna demonstrate what you mean ,otherwise I dont understand. > > Tried to find a video of someone fighting a mesmer but it's to small to notice on my phone. Tabbing imo is a bad habit and sometimes just takes to long target the person/mesmer you really want with tab. Not saying I do it 1000 times to find real one, if he is close etc. Mostly clicking on him. You just have to look on them. Real one is easy to spot imo .Still dont understand what you meant. That thing that point at player same on clone/real mesmer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Disgrace.4275 Posted November 1, 2018 Share Posted November 1, 2018 > @"tinyreborn.1938" said: > > @"Fat Disgrace.4275" said: > > > @"tinyreborn.1938" said: > > > > @"Fat Disgrace.4275" said: > > > Then I dont understand . Clone/real mesmer have same thing unless you wanna demonstrate what you mean ,otherwise I dont understand. > > > > Tried to find a video of someone fighting a mesmer but it's to small to notice on my phone. Tabbing imo is a bad habit and sometimes just takes to long target the person/mesmer you really want with tab. > Not saying I do it 1000 times to find real one, if he is close etc. Mostly clicking on him. You just have to look on them. Real one is easy to spot imo .Still dont understand what you meant. That thing that point at player same on clone/real mesmer Pretty sure there is a small red triangle bouncing on the real mesmers head. That's how I spot them with nothing targeted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cryorion.9532 Posted November 1, 2018 Share Posted November 1, 2018 > @"Amaranthe.3578" said: > > @"cryorion.9532" said: > > > @"apharma.3741" said: > > > > @"cryorion.9532" said: > > > > > @"apharma.3741" said: > > > > > > @"cryorion.9532" said: > > > > > > > @"viquing.8254" said: > > > > > > > > @"cryorion.9532" said: > > > > > > > > Mesmer in general is the most op class in game because of it's toolkit. The class has access to basically everything. > > > > > > > > Why some people even argue that it's not, is beyond me. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Talk about toolkit, what did you think about FB : > > > > > > > * Every boon in the game apart alacrity. > > > > > > > * Access to 7 different conditions. > > > > > > > * 1 pull with a 5.25 sec cd during F1, 1 Knock back aoe CC on 24 sec cd, 1 pull on a 12 sec CD, 1 taunt on a 2.75 sec CD during F3, > > > > > > > * Water, light and fire combo fields, 1 blast Finisher, > > > > > > > * A reflect buble on a 5.25 sec CD during F3, a face reflect on a 15 cd. > > > > > > > * A target teleport. > > > > > > > * 7 Breakstunt on short CD and some stability stacks. > > > > > > > * Somes condiclear. > > > > > > > * A good healing teamplay ability even when build for 1v1 point holder. > > > > > > > * Most of skills have aoe effect (on allies or ennemies.) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So apart portal. **Only portal**. No, mesmer haven't the best toolkit, even if we don't look at FB extreme. > > > > > > > That said, even on class that haven't much variety in their toolkit, they are more performant at the little tool they have. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > FB can't disengage so easily and doesn't have access to stealth, you forgot that for some reason. > > > > > > Please, don't act like FB is more op than mirage/chrono. Although, I am not saying FB is not op. > > > > > > Also, it's generalized for all game modes. > > > > > > > > > > No, FB is objectively and has always been more OP than mirage. That is a well regarded fact by any decent PvP player since PoF. The only time FB has dipped in how strong it was is when people literally ran 5 scourges because of how busted and faceroll it was, even then FB with scourge was considered an alternative option. That is without mentioning that other PvP mode (WvW) where it is so mandatory that people will literally stop playing if there aren't the right number supporting everyone. > > > > > > > > Ok, let's try it another way... > > > > What do you think mesmer class is missing? What kind of utility? I wrote that mesmer in general is op because of its toolkit. Because they have everything. Firebrand doesn't have everything. And arguments, that it doesn't need everything, are silly. > > > > The toolkit isn't only about healing and PvP... > > > > > > What is mesmer missing? Are we talking a hypothetical unicorn build that can never exist or real builds that can exist? Mesmer can't have it all in one build unlike FB which has almost everything in 1 build. > > > > > > Let me refer you to an excellent post: > > > > > > > @"viquing.8254" said: > > > > > @"cryorion.9532" said: > > > > > Mesmer in general is the most op class in game because of it's toolkit. The class has access to basically everything. > > > > > Why some people even argue that it's not, is beyond me. > > > > > > > > Talk about toolkit, what did you think about FB : > > > > * Every boon in the game apart alacrity. > > > > * Access to 7 different conditions. > > > > * 1 pull with a 5.25 sec cd during F1, 1 Knock back aoe CC on 24 sec cd, 1 pull on a 12 sec CD, 1 taunt on a 2.75 sec CD during F3, > > > > * Water, light and fire combo fields, 1 blast Finisher, > > > > * A reflect buble on a 5.25 sec CD during F3, a face reflect on a 15 cd. > > > > * A target teleport. > > > > * 7 Breakstunt on short CD and some stability stacks. > > > > * Somes condiclear. > > > > * A good healing teamplay ability even when build for 1v1 point holder. > > > > * Most of skills have aoe effect (on allies or ennemies.) > > > > > > > > So apart portal. **Only portal**. No, mesmer haven't the best toolkit, even if we don't look at FB extreme. > > > > That said, even on class that haven't much variety in their toolkit, they are more performant at the little tool they have. > > > > > > > > > > > For the 10th time, I was talking about class in general. That means everything the class has access to. All you do, is comapre one meta build of firebrand in PvP which is obviously overpowered, but act like mesmer isn't op at all. Mesmer/chrono/mirage have always access to self/mass stealth, self ports, portal, distortion, reflects, heavy cc, boon management, blinds, ... > > Firebrand is op as elite spec. Mesmer is op as whole class. If you read what I wrote before, you would probably know that I was talking about the class in general. > > What did I even think coming on mesmer forum, trying to argue... > > The amount of BS in that post could fertalize a harvest. Nice argument. What else to expect from people defending their op class not being op, right? 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Amaranthe.3578 Posted November 1, 2018 Share Posted November 1, 2018 > @"cryorion.9532" said: > > @"Amaranthe.3578" said: > > > @"cryorion.9532" said: > > > > @"apharma.3741" said: > > > > > @"cryorion.9532" said: > > > > > > @"apharma.3741" said: > > > > > > > @"cryorion.9532" said: > > > > > > > > @"viquing.8254" said: > > > > > > > > > @"cryorion.9532" said: > > > > > > > > > Mesmer in general is the most op class in game because of it's toolkit. The class has access to basically everything. > > > > > > > > > Why some people even argue that it's not, is beyond me. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Talk about toolkit, what did you think about FB : > > > > > > > > * Every boon in the game apart alacrity. > > > > > > > > * Access to 7 different conditions. > > > > > > > > * 1 pull with a 5.25 sec cd during F1, 1 Knock back aoe CC on 24 sec cd, 1 pull on a 12 sec CD, 1 taunt on a 2.75 sec CD during F3, > > > > > > > > * Water, light and fire combo fields, 1 blast Finisher, > > > > > > > > * A reflect buble on a 5.25 sec CD during F3, a face reflect on a 15 cd. > > > > > > > > * A target teleport. > > > > > > > > * 7 Breakstunt on short CD and some stability stacks. > > > > > > > > * Somes condiclear. > > > > > > > > * A good healing teamplay ability even when build for 1v1 point holder. > > > > > > > > * Most of skills have aoe effect (on allies or ennemies.) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So apart portal. **Only portal**. No, mesmer haven't the best toolkit, even if we don't look at FB extreme. > > > > > > > > That said, even on class that haven't much variety in their toolkit, they are more performant at the little tool they have. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > FB can't disengage so easily and doesn't have access to stealth, you forgot that for some reason. > > > > > > > Please, don't act like FB is more op than mirage/chrono. Although, I am not saying FB is not op. > > > > > > > Also, it's generalized for all game modes. > > > > > > > > > > > > No, FB is objectively and has always been more OP than mirage. That is a well regarded fact by any decent PvP player since PoF. The only time FB has dipped in how strong it was is when people literally ran 5 scourges because of how busted and faceroll it was, even then FB with scourge was considered an alternative option. That is without mentioning that other PvP mode (WvW) where it is so mandatory that people will literally stop playing if there aren't the right number supporting everyone. > > > > > > > > > > Ok, let's try it another way... > > > > > What do you think mesmer class is missing? What kind of utility? I wrote that mesmer in general is op because of its toolkit. Because they have everything. Firebrand doesn't have everything. And arguments, that it doesn't need everything, are silly. > > > > > The toolkit isn't only about healing and PvP... > > > > > > > > What is mesmer missing? Are we talking a hypothetical unicorn build that can never exist or real builds that can exist? Mesmer can't have it all in one build unlike FB which has almost everything in 1 build. > > > > > > > > Let me refer you to an excellent post: > > > > > > > > > @"viquing.8254" said: > > > > > > @"cryorion.9532" said: > > > > > > Mesmer in general is the most op class in game because of it's toolkit. The class has access to basically everything. > > > > > > Why some people even argue that it's not, is beyond me. > > > > > > > > > > Talk about toolkit, what did you think about FB : > > > > > * Every boon in the game apart alacrity. > > > > > * Access to 7 different conditions. > > > > > * 1 pull with a 5.25 sec cd during F1, 1 Knock back aoe CC on 24 sec cd, 1 pull on a 12 sec CD, 1 taunt on a 2.75 sec CD during F3, > > > > > * Water, light and fire combo fields, 1 blast Finisher, > > > > > * A reflect buble on a 5.25 sec CD during F3, a face reflect on a 15 cd. > > > > > * A target teleport. > > > > > * 7 Breakstunt on short CD and some stability stacks. > > > > > * Somes condiclear. > > > > > * A good healing teamplay ability even when build for 1v1 point holder. > > > > > * Most of skills have aoe effect (on allies or ennemies.) > > > > > > > > > > So apart portal. **Only portal**. No, mesmer haven't the best toolkit, even if we don't look at FB extreme. > > > > > That said, even on class that haven't much variety in their toolkit, they are more performant at the little tool they have. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > For the 10th time, I was talking about class in general. That means everything the class has access to. All you do, is comapre one meta build of firebrand in PvP which is obviously overpowered, but act like mesmer isn't op at all. Mesmer/chrono/mirage have always access to self/mass stealth, self ports, portal, distortion, reflects, heavy cc, boon management, blinds, ... > > > Firebrand is op as elite spec. Mesmer is op as whole class. If you read what I wrote before, you would probably know that I was talking about the class in general. > > > What did I even think coming on mesmer forum, trying to argue... > > > > The amount of BS in that post could fertalize a harvest. > > Nice argument. What else to expect from people defending their op class not being op, right? It wasnt an argument, merely an observation. I dont think logocal arguments will work with you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tinyreborn.1938 Posted November 1, 2018 Share Posted November 1, 2018 > @"Fat Disgrace.4275" said: > Pretty sure there is a small red triangle bouncing on the real mesmers head. That's how I spot them with nothing targeted. Picture or neverhappened ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cryorion.9532 Posted November 1, 2018 Share Posted November 1, 2018 > @"Amaranthe.3578" said: > It wasnt an argument, merely an observation. > I dont think logocal arguments will work with you. Definitely not yours ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brappish.8715 Posted November 1, 2018 Author Share Posted November 1, 2018 > @"cryorion.9532" said: > > @"Amaranthe.3578" said: > > > @"cryorion.9532" said: > > > > @"apharma.3741" said: > > > > > @"cryorion.9532" said: > > > > > > @"apharma.3741" said: > > > > > > > @"cryorion.9532" said: > > > > > > > > @"viquing.8254" said: > > > > > > > > > @"cryorion.9532" said: > > > > > > > > > Mesmer in general is the most op class in game because of it's toolkit. The class has access to basically everything. > > > > > > > > > Why some people even argue that it's not, is beyond me. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Talk about toolkit, what did you think about FB : > > > > > > > > * Every boon in the game apart alacrity. > > > > > > > > * Access to 7 different conditions. > > > > > > > > * 1 pull with a 5.25 sec cd during F1, 1 Knock back aoe CC on 24 sec cd, 1 pull on a 12 sec CD, 1 taunt on a 2.75 sec CD during F3, > > > > > > > > * Water, light and fire combo fields, 1 blast Finisher, > > > > > > > > * A reflect buble on a 5.25 sec CD during F3, a face reflect on a 15 cd. > > > > > > > > * A target teleport. > > > > > > > > * 7 Breakstunt on short CD and some stability stacks. > > > > > > > > * Somes condiclear. > > > > > > > > * A good healing teamplay ability even when build for 1v1 point holder. > > > > > > > > * Most of skills have aoe effect (on allies or ennemies.) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So apart portal. **Only portal**. No, mesmer haven't the best toolkit, even if we don't look at FB extreme. > > > > > > > > That said, even on class that haven't much variety in their toolkit, they are more performant at the little tool they have. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > FB can't disengage so easily and doesn't have access to stealth, you forgot that for some reason. > > > > > > > Please, don't act like FB is more op than mirage/chrono. Although, I am not saying FB is not op. > > > > > > > Also, it's generalized for all game modes. > > > > > > > > > > > > No, FB is objectively and has always been more OP than mirage. That is a well regarded fact by any decent PvP player since PoF. The only time FB has dipped in how strong it was is when people literally ran 5 scourges because of how busted and faceroll it was, even then FB with scourge was considered an alternative option. That is without mentioning that other PvP mode (WvW) where it is so mandatory that people will literally stop playing if there aren't the right number supporting everyone. > > > > > > > > > > Ok, let's try it another way... > > > > > What do you think mesmer class is missing? What kind of utility? I wrote that mesmer in general is op because of its toolkit. Because they have everything. Firebrand doesn't have everything. And arguments, that it doesn't need everything, are silly. > > > > > The toolkit isn't only about healing and PvP... > > > > > > > > What is mesmer missing? Are we talking a hypothetical unicorn build that can never exist or real builds that can exist? Mesmer can't have it all in one build unlike FB which has almost everything in 1 build. > > > > > > > > Let me refer you to an excellent post: > > > > > > > > > @"viquing.8254" said: > > > > > > @"cryorion.9532" said: > > > > > > Mesmer in general is the most op class in game because of it's toolkit. The class has access to basically everything. > > > > > > Why some people even argue that it's not, is beyond me. > > > > > > > > > > Talk about toolkit, what did you think about FB : > > > > > * Every boon in the game apart alacrity. > > > > > * Access to 7 different conditions. > > > > > * 1 pull with a 5.25 sec cd during F1, 1 Knock back aoe CC on 24 sec cd, 1 pull on a 12 sec CD, 1 taunt on a 2.75 sec CD during F3, > > > > > * Water, light and fire combo fields, 1 blast Finisher, > > > > > * A reflect buble on a 5.25 sec CD during F3, a face reflect on a 15 cd. > > > > > * A target teleport. > > > > > * 7 Breakstunt on short CD and some stability stacks. > > > > > * Somes condiclear. > > > > > * A good healing teamplay ability even when build for 1v1 point holder. > > > > > * Most of skills have aoe effect (on allies or ennemies.) > > > > > > > > > > So apart portal. **Only portal**. No, mesmer haven't the best toolkit, even if we don't look at FB extreme. > > > > > That said, even on class that haven't much variety in their toolkit, they are more performant at the little tool they have. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > For the 10th time, I was talking about class in general. That means everything the class has access to. All you do, is comapre one meta build of firebrand in PvP which is obviously overpowered, but act like mesmer isn't op at all. Mesmer/chrono/mirage have always access to self/mass stealth, self ports, portal, distortion, reflects, heavy cc, boon management, blinds, ... > > > Firebrand is op as elite spec. Mesmer is op as whole class. If you read what I wrote before, you would probably know that I was talking about the class in general. > > > What did I even think coming on mesmer forum, trying to argue... > > > > The amount of BS in that post could fertalize a harvest. > > Nice argument. What else to expect from people defending their op class not being op, right? Lmao. When bad kids are mad they call out the developers for their own lack of skill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cryorion.9532 Posted November 1, 2018 Share Posted November 1, 2018 > @"brappish.8715" said: > Lmao. When bad kids are mad they call out the developers for their own lack of skill. Who is calling out developers here btw? I think it's just pointless note, because you are mad. This conversation just turned into wrong direction. Please keep to the topic, at least try to post arguments to prove me wrong, if you disagree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brappish.8715 Posted November 1, 2018 Author Share Posted November 1, 2018 edited.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brappish.8715 Posted November 1, 2018 Author Share Posted November 1, 2018 People who are upset that Mesmer is too overpowered are theoretically upset with the developers...who made the class op. Therefore if you state Mesmer's are overpowered and it's creating an issue (where some people consider the game broken and don't want to play anymore) then you are in fact blaming those who made it. So no...Its not a pointless note and no I was never upset and no this conversation is exactly where it has always been, which is in the direction of "bad kids are mad they call out developers" In fact I am humored that people exist in this world, the video game world, (dont get me started on the real world) who, instead of blaming their own lack of knowledge, patience, skill, timing, and experience, blame the creators of the game for creating such an _**unfathomable**_ class to compete against. Everyone, I mean EVERYONE, has had their issues with every class in this game. Just like every other video game, there's been an issue and people QQ. Certain guns in certain shooters, certain bosses in certain single player games, certain things like the time-gated gear in GW2 (Aurora). SO... What do they do, Turn to the forums to complain to the developers and the community because they're literally too lazy and too entitled to overcome it themselves. I get upset at other classes all the time (necro, dead eye, pewpew ranger) for instantly obliterating me, I have never once complained to the forums about that class being to OP and propose and nerf.. instead I change my build, change my strat, nail it down and repeat it until I understand which mechanics will give me the upper hand. At the end of the day no matter what class you play or what class you play against. Someone is always gonna be bigger and meaner. So get tough and figure it out. On a similar note, where I could understand when complaining should be done: Last night in a tourney, I undoubtedly, no question about it, Drained a ranger of all his health, got him into the downed position and repeatedly stomped him. 5 times this happened and each time I tried the stomp (4 consecutive times one stomp after another) he wouldn't eliminate. If it was a glitch, an exploit, a hack or a new skill I don't know about then I'm definitely complaining about it. You know why? Because it was overpowered....he got up 5 times, I got +1'd and then I lost the point. Anyway, Stop complaining. Learn how to overcome. I have to fight Mesmers too. I think Anet made a beautiful game with awesome intricacies in their classes. Then along comes salty/tilted people who can't wrap their heads around an aspect of the game and now we have to change it for them. What's gonna make everyone, who's not Mesmer, happy? You guys want us to not have invul anymore? or maybe you can have our dodges back and no more mirrage mirror. If you want yall can take our condi damage an cut it in half? also our "boon share" get rid of that too. Nerf me to the ground, it could literally be just me and one pesky little illusion whacking away at you with a sword hitting 2's and 3's and imma still come at you and try and figure out how to win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EpicTurtle.8571 Posted November 1, 2018 Share Posted November 1, 2018 You're listing all these things that make Mesmer the class OP, but you haven't listed the build where you get to use every single one of those tools in concert. It's more like a pick 3 out of the list and there you go. And before you go, 'ya but u have access', a lot of classes have access to the same tools, the problem is that for them to use those tools requires them to pick generally non optimal or sometimes barely viable choices. It seems, to me at least, that you're blaming Mesmer for other classes having poor balance. P.S. I have to lol at mass stealth, I haven't seen someone use Mass Invisibility or Veil for at least 4 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brappish.8715 Posted November 1, 2018 Author Share Posted November 1, 2018 > @"EpicTurtle.8571" said: > You're listing all these things that make Mesmer the class OP, but you haven't listed the build where you get to use every single one of those tools in concert. It's more like a pick 3 out of the list and there you go. And before you go, 'ya but u have access', a lot of classes have access to the same tools, the problem is that for them to use those tools requires them to pick generally non optimal or sometimes barely viable choices. It seems, to me at least, that you're blaming Mesmer for other classes having poor balance. > > P.S. I have to lol at mass stealth, I haven't seen someone use Mass Invisibility or Veil for at least 4 years. I used both of them yesterday trying to rebuild a Primatic understanding build. GUESS WHAT. It didnt work for shit against flame guards and holosmiths and necros lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whoknocks.4935 Posted November 1, 2018 Share Posted November 1, 2018 Started playing today for the first time ever mesmer and in particular mirage using an axe/torch sword/pistol build for solo roaming in wvw. Nothing to say, it's a crazy op and I won already lot of 1vs2 and able to hold even some 1vs3. But as soon as I find a decent player they blow me hard even using all the evades and invulns. In particular holosmith I find it way more cancerous than mirage at this point, easier to play and way spammier. Mirage is the best build to kill noobs, you basically remain untouched, in the hands of a good player it's still one of the best duelist builds, but holosmith and soulbeast lately are 10 steps ahead, way more noob friendly and easy to use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amaranthe.3578 Posted November 1, 2018 Share Posted November 1, 2018 > @"cryorion.9532" said: > > @"Amaranthe.3578" said: > > It wasnt an argument, merely an observation. > > I dont think logocal arguments will work with you. > > Definitely not yours ;) > > You're basically admitting your claims are not rational here...nice ;D The balance in GW2(or any mmorpg really) is always a mess, Im not sure how long you have been playing but the current balance is the best GW2 ever had.(class tacking is not the best, every class has at least one really good build and a few decent ones and games do not last forever because of bunkers) PvP in a MMORPG is as it should be - an afterthought, a mini game within a game....it is NOT the "main show" and pvp balance will always take a back seat to anything else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cryorion.9532 Posted November 1, 2018 Share Posted November 1, 2018 > @"brappish.8715" said: > snip Now this is nice reply. Why do you only think about combat and PvP though? You also have to think about the class ability usage outside of combat. It may sound silly at first, but every possible thing you can do with the class counts. And that's what I am talking about all the time. But people only bring up PvP and firebrand... If there is something that needs to be done, mesmer has always some tool/skill/whatever to get it done. I am not crying that mesmer is op because I got recently destroyed in PvP or what. It's just my personal observation after years of playing GW2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
viquing.8254 Posted November 1, 2018 Share Posted November 1, 2018 > @"whoknocks.4935" said: > Nothing to say, it's a crazy op and I won already lot of 1vs2 and able to hold even some 1vs3. Yeah me too I can 1vX backpedal pewpew ranger in WvW and feel great. > In the hands of a good player it's still one of the best duelist builds Where are they ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brappish.8715 Posted November 1, 2018 Author Share Posted November 1, 2018 > @"cryorion.9532" said: > > @"brappish.8715" said: > > snip > > Now this is nice reply. > Why do you only think about combat and PvP though? > You also have to think about the class ability usage outside of combat. It may sound silly at first, but every possible thing you can do with the class counts. > And that's what I am talking about all the time. But people only bring up PvP and firebrand... > If there is something that needs to be done, mesmer has always some tool/skill/whatever to get it done. > I am not crying that Mesmer is op because I got recently destroyed in PvP or what. It's just my personal observation after years of playing GW2. > We can all agree that when people claim a class to be OP, it's generally a negative association to having a class that has an unfair advantage **_against_** other classes. Because the only way something would be negatively stereotyped as overpowered is if it somehow stopped everyone else around them from progressing or enjoying the game. Outside of competitive player vs. player structure, Mesmer literally won't affect you at all. Mesmer could fly around shooting fire out of its ass and kill everything and be invulnerable the whole time and it still wouldn't/shouldn't/couldn't be classified as the negative OP that everyone complains about it being unless Mez is killing things at an ungodly rate and you can't also tag. (no one complains about it outside of a competitive scenario and if you do then you probably the kind of person that gets mad at people who are inline at stores before you because they arrived before you.......) This is why we all are referring to a PVP structured standpoint when examining the: OP MESMERS accusation. Mesmer was meant to be the most complicated class to play (says ANET) It was supposed to be intricate and fascinating and have unordinary concepts to it. Its literally a magician/illusionist. If you are going to exist in this argument solely relying on the construct that Mesmer is op because of the intricacies and capabilities in not only PVP but in PvE also, then you are literally saying the concept of Mesmer is too much for the game and they should just pretty much halt its development and existence all at once and we should just have another boring sword smacking warrior type class. Mesmer is like the SUV of the gw2 classes. and Thief is like the crotch rocket. Guard is like a Pickup truck. So on and so forth. But calling Mesmer OP in situations outside of PVP and pretty much shaming it and its players for being viable is even more idiotic than calling it Op in PVP. If you raid, and a Mesmer comes into the party= benefit If you do an open world event, and Mesmer comes= benefit If you are struggling to complete a JP, and Mesmer comes= benefit OP? Nah. You chose the wrong class maybe? Ya. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tinyreborn.1938 Posted November 1, 2018 Share Posted November 1, 2018 > @"viquing.8254" said: > > @"whoknocks.4935" said: > > Nothing to say, it's a crazy op and I won already lot of 1vs2 and able to hold even some 1vs3. > Yeah me too I can 1vX backpedal pewpew ranger in WvW and feel great. > > In the hands of a good player it's still one of the best duelist builds > Where are they ? > Dont talk sh*t about rangers, their autos 11k on WvW...with 2k range.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brappish.8715 Posted November 1, 2018 Author Share Posted November 1, 2018 > @"tinyreborn.1938" said: > > @"viquing.8254" said: > > > @"whoknocks.4935" said: > > > Nothing to say, it's a crazy op and I won already lot of 1vs2 and able to hold even some 1vs3. > > Yeah me too I can 1vX backpedal pewpew ranger in WvW and feel great. > > > In the hands of a good player it's still one of the best duelist builds > > Where are they ? > > > > Dont talk kitten about rangers, their autos 11k on WvW...with 2k range.... Ya but thats sick as fuck. I literally hope on all the time and pewpew the fuck out of people. And when i play against it i just accept it or try and deal with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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