[Feedback] Mad King's Raceway [merged]

[Vyrulisse.1246]

Seems they changed the time in the latest patch to 1 minute 30 seconds instead of 1 minute. That's good news for a lot of people including me. I just couldn't break under a minute. My best time is a minute 12. Thanks A.net!

 

Yes I've been trying regularly I just can't get a handle on the beetle, it's not for everyone or probably most people.

[Donari.5237]

Yay! I just got that patch and am ready to try again! Note @"Gaile Gray.6029" the tool tip on the Achieve Panel listing of Mad Drifter still says under one minute is required. May want to correct that.

[Zaraki.5784]

"Relaxed the challenge time for achievements in Mad King's Raceway from 1 minute to 1 minute 30 seconds."

Thanks ~~God~~ Anet!

[coro.3176]

Lame..

 

The game has so few real challenges in it. It's nice when they have something legitimately difficult.

 

I think I beat 1m30 on my 1st or 2nd attempt without even really trying - just learning the course. I was looking forward to practicing getting good with the beetle.

[Tails.9372]

> @"Gaile Gray.6029" said:

> If people share **constructive and meaningful feedback** then we sincerely thank them.

But it's not like as if you guys are making it easy for us to give accurate feedback. First and foremost what was your intention here, an obstacle course that also serves as a race track or a race track that's also used for time trials? If it's former then it's actually rather decent but it doesn't really work for races as the abundance of obstacles is quite the pace breaker and can easily lead to frustrating situations for the average player. If it's the latter then what were you thinking? Just look at the average race track from an average racing game and then compare it to this one, notice something? Exactly, the track is way too narrow and littered with sharp turns and "hidden" objects which can completely eliminate your momentum. It works as an obstacle course but fails as a race track, that is assuming we're talking about (as advertised) the beetle. It works fine as a race track for the raptor / the jackal but this creates the problem that you feel like "you can't win for s**t" if even one player who knows how to use the beetle participates.

 

Like i said before this game should get a proper race mode with race tracks tailor made for the various mounts (and only for the mount(s) in question), this would improve these races tremendously.

[Yasi.9065]

Ive been trying for the < 1min achievement for quite some tries now, but its painful and definitely NOT fun for me. And I only can take it for a little bit before I become so enraged I want to smash something - not a reaction Im prone to.

 

The drifting mechanic reacts sluggishly, sometimes not at all or after 10 seconds I started hammering the drift key. The tons of obstacle in the course exacerbate that problem because even a slightly too late drift - or end-drift - causes you to slam into them and either careen completely out of bounds, or stop still.

 

The uneven ground causes other problems, like if you land half a meter to the left in a small puddle, you cant drift immediately, and then you slam into tombs.

 

Plainly put: this is my worst nightmare. It reminds me of first-gen race car games from my youth. Equally un-fun, equally un-playable. Equally badly programmed.

[Pyreo.8517]

Well now I feel like a moron for putting effort into getting better at the race until I did it under 1 min. Might as well not have bothered.

[theory.3580]

I understand that many people were having trouble with the new achievement, and this patch was meant to address their concerns. However, for many people, a lot of the enjoyment of playing games comes from the sense of mastery and accomplishment from overcoming something difficult. I practiced for hours and finally got 3 runs under 60 seconds for the Annual Mad Drifter achievement this morning, and it made my day.

 

Instead of removing difficult achievements in the future, can they please just be made non-required for their respective meta-achievements? That way everyone wins and no one suffers. People who are having trouble and want a relaxed fun experience can just skip the achievements that are too hard for them, and people who enjoy a challenge have an optional and enjoyable extra achievement to work towards.

 

Please don't ignore the enjoyment of players that enjoy a challenge to defuse players who want relaxed fun. Both groups of us are people who just want to enjoy this amazing game. Thank you for your time.

[Susy.7529]

Thanks Anet for increasing the time limit, now it can be done with Raptor! :)

[IndigoSundown.5419]

> @"theory.3580" said:

>

> Instead of removing difficult achievements in the future, can they please just be made non-required for their respective meta-achievements? That way everyone wins and no one suffers. People who are having trouble and want a relaxed fun experience can just skip the achievements that are too hard for them, and people who enjoy a challenge have an optional and enjoyable extra achievement to work towards.

 

This.

 

It's remarkable that ANet so loves their content that they want _all_ players (or as many as would do it at all) to do all content, rather than offering choice, so that there can be some challenging things out there without making it so that general goals depend on being both a completionist and a challenge lover.

[Locce.8405]

> @"Pyreo.8517" said:

> Well now I feel like a moron for putting effort into getting better at the race until I did it under 1 min. Might as well not have bothered.

 

Me too, but I am not complaining. At this point it is a matter of pride to have beaten the "original time limit" and being happy for those who now have a realistic chance to get the meta achievement without playing the waiting simulator (aka Clock Tower).

[Dante.1763]

> @"theory.3580" said:

> I understand that many people were having trouble with the new achievement, and this patch was meant to address their concerns. However, for many people, a lot of the enjoyment of playing games comes from the sense of mastery and accomplishment from overcoming something difficult. I practiced for hours and finally got 3 runs under 60 seconds for the Annual Mad Drifter achievement this morning, and it made my day.

>

> Instead of removing difficult achievements in the future, can they please just be made non-required for their respective meta-achievements? That way everyone wins and no one suffers. People who are having trouble and want a relaxed fun experience can just skip the achievements that are too hard for them, and people who enjoy a challenge have an optional and enjoyable extra achievement to work towards.

>

> Please don't ignore the enjoyment of players that enjoy a challenge to defuse players who want relaxed fun. Both groups of us are people who just want to enjoy this amazing game. Thank you for your time.

 

Unfortunately for this achievement in particular(and not that this is the primary reason for the change, probably only a small part), but the Beetle mount is bugged for a number of players preventing any kind of drifting, and using other mounts in the race to get less than a minute is physically not possible. On top of that the race track as was noted repeatedly in the official feedback thread was awful when it came to interacting with the beetles hitbox adding an artificial and not needed challenge. While it comes to actually challenging content like the queens gauntlet i do not believe races, activities, or adventures should be nearly impossible for a large portion of the games population.

 

While it would be nice if they did detach achievements like this from the meta, ive noticed they want players to do all the achievements for the holiday metas.

[Boysenberry.1869]

I like the change to 1:30. For me personally sub 1:00 was impossible and since I can't do timed jumping puzzles either I resigned myself to skipping the meta. But now with the change I can go ahead and do it. Difficult content has its place but I think allowing the majority of people to complete a holiday meta that is just meant to be goofy fun is a good change. I also would have been okay with lowering the meta to 8/10 and adding extra rewards for people who got sub 1:00. Perhaps that might have been a better choice given how much effort some people put into getting sub 1:00.

[Synco.8203]

I got ranked 42 with 54 second lap...

 

Sure the achievement is doable, and you do need some skill to finish it under 1 minute, but the main point is lost - is it a fun track? Not really, even when you do post a top laptime.

[Bloodstealer.5978]

> @"Steve The Cynic.3217" said:

> The beetle does not lack maneuverability. Practice drifting ("Mad Drifter" might be a clue).

 

Drifting is fickle at the best of times.. you only need a slight blip in latency and you miss your apex for a drift. The terrain in the area, plus the pumpkin smashes make this terrabad for the beetle.. best I have done is with jackal+rap with stam boost and its no where near the 1 min.

[Zoltar MacRoth.7146]

> @"Gaile Gray.6029" said:

> > @"Randulf.7614" said:

> > > @"Gaile Gray.6029" said:

> > > > @"Susy.7529" said:

> > >

> > > > What about those who say that the race is badly designed, too hard and the time limit is way too strict? They don't count anything? :/

> > > > Do you know what we would **very appreciate**? You increasing the time limit or completely reworking the race!

> > >

> > > If people share **constructive and meaningful feedback** then we sincerely thank them. Even if their general feedback is negative, if it provides valuable insights or suggestions, then yes, it's definitely appreciated. (And no, it isn't "instantly removed because it's negative" as some would suggest. ;) )

> > >

> > > If feedback is something along the lines of "I don't like it" or "I can't do it" or "It's 'badly designed'!" **without meaningful details or suggested solutions** then that feedback is not of much value.

> > >

> > > If a hundred people say "I don't like it" but data shows that many thousands or tens of thousands are participating in the content, you have to wonder if we have a echo chamber effect, where a small number of people share their feelings, another member of that small group agrees, and group members come to consider that echo a form of "proof" that their *opinion* is absolute *fact*. Now, I'm not suggesting we have that sort of data at this point -- it's probably early to gather it. However, I imagine we will acquire that data, and when we do, if the statistics suggest that we might want to make changes, then those who make constructive suggestions will be of greater help than the "I don't like it (no details, no suggestions)" crowd. :D

> > >

> > > Maybe it's like voting: Stating "I don't like this candidate" doesn't have a lot of value. Heck, "none of the above" isn't even on the ballot! :D Compare that to "I like / choose / will vote for this candidate because..." and you can see the latter has substance, which is helpful. I may be opinion, sure, but it's backed by details and facts.

> > >

> > > TL;dr: Make your feedback count -- positive, negative, neutral -- by sharing details, suggestions, and something of true value.

> > >

> > > For an example, take the feedback from @"Synco.8203". Their opinion about the MKRW would be basically negative, but they provide a lot of reasons for their impression, and they kindly give details, suggestions, and well-thought input. That makes what they have to say valuable.

> >

> > That is all fine and good advice. I would say though, participation is not necs useful data. Lots of ppl might be doing it, but still hating it because of the aforementioned comments. I'm sure the team knows this, but I worry tremendously when I see companies rely on such metrics and (and kpis in the industries I work in) and a lot of that kind of data can be one dimensional and useless without context.

>

> Oh no, you misunderstood! Or more probably I expressed myself poorly. That reference to statistics was made with the concept that they would be just *part* of an analysis, not the only metric on which decisions were made or changes were guided! The basic premise here is that general feedback is noted, but specific feedback is better and more helpful.

 

Hi Gaile, it appears from this thread that the time limit has been relaxed a little. Just wanted to say thank you from those of us in Australia, where there's always a slightly higher ping. It's not usually noticeable in general play, but comes to the fore where split-second decisions are crucial. Controls don't respond immediately. Mounts and gliders don't open/close or fire their skills as soon as you hit a button. I don't know if the course was impossible before giving this little lag, but getting more breathing room is appreciated. I'm looking forward to beating this challenge when I get the chance.

[Ziooo.8932]

Aight, wasted some good hours to get my 55sec lap and i have to say that my god, that was awful but kinda rewarding when i finally got the hang of it (after 30+ laps?).

 

Im glad it was changed to sub 1:30min, tho i think it might be too easy now... not that i care, already have the achieves anyways.

 

But lets be honest here: im experienced with the beetle and i still suffered (A LOT) to do it, what about that free to play little Timmy that never used a mount? We could have had a proper tutorial explaining stuff there to help people, since we kinda had to use the beetle.

 

Or we couldve increased the time, that also works xD

[Randulf.7614]

Well at least we got a speedy response. Hopefully a lesson learned in designing future tracks.

[Randulf.7614]

I suspect the given change was the easiest and quickest to implement.

 

Whilst im glad they made the change, i sympathise with those who worked to get it. It was prob just a case of doing what they could before too much festival time elapsed

[Malediktus.9250]

> @"IndigoSundown.5419" said:

> > @"theory.3580" said:

> >

> > Instead of removing difficult achievements in the future, can they please just be made non-required for their respective meta-achievements? That way everyone wins and no one suffers. People who are having trouble and want a relaxed fun experience can just skip the achievements that are too hard for them, and people who enjoy a challenge have an optional and enjoyable extra achievement to work towards.

>

> This.

>

> It's remarkable that ANet so loves their content that they want _all_ players (or as many as would do it at all) to do all content, rather than offering choice, so that there can be some challenging things out there without making it so that general goals depend on being both a completionist and a challenge lover.

 

It already was not required since it only required you to do 9 out of 10 achievements

[notebene.3190]

> @"Malediktus.9250" said:

> > @"IndigoSundown.5419" said:

> > > @"theory.3580" said:

> > >

> > > Instead of removing difficult achievements in the future, can they please just be made non-required for their respective meta-achievements? That way everyone wins and no one suffers. People who are having trouble and want a relaxed fun experience can just skip the achievements that are too hard for them, and people who enjoy a challenge have an optional and enjoyable extra achievement to work towards.

> >

> > This.

> >

> > It's remarkable that ANet so loves their content that they want _all_ players (or as many as would do it at all) to do all content, rather than offering choice, so that there can be some challenging things out there without making it so that general goals depend on being both a completionist and a challenge lover.

>

> It already was not required since it only required you to do 9 out of 10 achievements

 

While you are technically correct, for a lot of us, it's 9/9.

[Bilibloc.4813]

Or make better race with some tricky but not shitty path (not to offence anyone) but i still think that more beetle race would be great but more linear and simple path but harder to get faster hard to improve your time take tremplins dodges and manage your stamina for the run not frustrating and full of obstacles races like in S. That not make sense at all when you think about the beetle. More jump and dodges racings. Like the previous one thougt in the episode 3... With tubes jumps multy path and stuffs, well gw2 is not a racing game again. Think about trakmania they never do a race like SSSSSSSSSSS and lot of obstacle it would break the game feel and break the physic of the game. It is same here just pure artificial difficulty on my opinion.

Repar this mistake was a good thing, gold time is still the same so ranking does not have 0 meaning. At the same time the crasy difficulty is not anymore an obstacle to get the achievement.

Thank you arena net to listen to your community. We will keep playing and we where even if you did not catch up, but it's good to feel listened and understand.

 

KEEP MAKING TRACKS!!! ESPECIALLY GRIFFONS ONES!

[Zhaid Zhem.6508]

Okai okai. It's doable. But IMO this is not a well designed track

1) too short, one error, one crash, is already 5-15secondes on the 1 minute timer.

2) the race event that pops every 15 minutes, obliging to wait 7 minutes !?!?!?!?!?????? Really, REAAAAAAAALLY, frustrating.

3) IMO : beetle is about speed, wide corners and space and long drifts, long jumps, stamina management, like the first track we had; not about narrow path with no visibility with little dirt everywhere on the ground you can't avoid if you didn't crash on them already 15 times.

 

It's like the first Shooting Gallery adventure : yes it was doable, but if you had lags, low resolution, LOD distance, a rubbish mouse ... well, you didn't see the target, not even the obstacles between, your shoots had latency ... Because you expected a RPG game, not Call Of Duty, nor Forza Horizon.

If you like challenge it's cool, but this race, without even looking at the timer, doesn't entertain me.

[DiabolicalHamSandwich.8756]

Then go for the mastery and accomplishment time? Last I checked, you're not magically unable to try for it. Sounds less about your achievement, and more about you wanting to feel special. Either way, maybe they should tier some cheevos. Add titles or something for the higher tiers. That way everyone can get whatever they need, and those who need to feel special, get something to feel special.

[Synco.8203]

> @"zombyturtle.5980" said:

> After finishing the achievement finally id like to give feedback on the race. It took me around 4 hours of trying to get 3 sub 1 minute runs.

>

> 1. The beetle drifting mechanic isnt intuitive. I was trying to hold down the drift key while turning, which is consistent with other racing style games drifts, for the entire first hour and thinking my beetle was bugged. I had to google to find out how the mechanic worked. Additionally, drifting in a small area can feel clunky.

> - to drift, you hold mount skill 2 down 1 second in advance while moving forward -> start turning your beetle the direction you want to drift while holding the key -> when facing the direction let it go immediately

> - you cant drift immediatly after boosting, theres a 1secondish delay. (this caused me another hour of failure until i realised)

> - if you are going too fast you will overshoot. to stop this happening, let go of W after boosting and let beetle roll on its own. you can also press S to break but this should only be necessary once in the race.

>

> 2. The map clearly isnt designed for beetle. I think the devs did do a good job creating a functioning race out of this map as it does need skillful use of drift to win. In this i'd say its a small success. However its not fun, in my opinion. The map is cluttered with tiny obstacles, crashing into even 1 of these totally kills the run. This took away any feeling of achievement at drifting perfectly around corners, which was good, and made an annoyance at having to time everything near frame perfect to avoid all the clutter which was terrible.

> - In the future id like to see races get their own custom built maps, even if they are lower quality than normal so they are more fitting to the beetles mechanic.

>

> 3. The race event was just super annoying, constantly interrupting any progress I was making with 7 minute downtime. Please separate race and adventure in the future, or allow them to be played simultaneously.

>

> 4. I think it was a mistake to require either beetle race or clocktower for the basic annual reward. I feel the general reward should be accessible to the majority of players. Currently it isnt as both are very difficult achieves probably aimed at 10% of players. Honestly id say beetle race is harder than raids to pull off.

> I do think its fine to require beetle for the 50AP. The is the advanced reward and it seems appropriate to reward skill and dedication for purely achievement points.

 

Easier way to drift, and you can see in my videos on page 3.

 

Hold mouse 2 + mouse 1 - this changes to action camera while keeping a forward acceleration constantly - you can tap/release mouse 1 to vary acceleration.

To drift you simply turn the field of view sharply into the corner and either tap or hold down 'S' while aiming the mouse around the corner to steer.

 

Try it this way and you will improve 100% instantly :D