Want to know your opinion about Revenant :)

[Aeolus.3615]

> @"otto.5684" said:

> > @"Aeolus.3615" said:

> > > @"otto.5684" said:

> > > > @"Kain Francois.4328" said:

> > > > > @"otto.5684" said:

> > > >

> > > > > My love was for condi rev, which currently sucks. condi rev has one of the longest damage ramp ups, rendering useless in PvP and really weak in much of the PvE content.

> > > >

> > > > Errrrr other way around. Condi rev is actually 2nd highest dps on large hitbox boxes, while still very high on small hitboxes. Also, it can have high dps while providing powerful support effects and buffs like Soulcleave's Summit and Assassin's presence.

> > > >

> > > > https://www.snowcrows.com/benchmarks/

> > > >

> > > > Perhaps for PvP it's weak, but for Fractals and Raids it's extremely good.

> > > >

> > > > My tip for open world is to use Unyielding Anguish more. The ramp time is very minimal with that skill.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > Other way round of what? It is good in raids okay in other group content. In open world PvE condi herald is better than renegade, condi damage. Herald is also far more survivable if you need to solo anything. Renegade, without any doubt, is the worst

> > >

> > > And condi herald is extremely weak in PvP and renegade is beyond terrible.

> > >

> >

> > Stats dont help build, or condi's dont kill target faster eneough like some other classes do???

> >

> >

> > ive played a Deamon/jalis with kala on wvw and it wasnt that bad(altough we on WvW have more stats to choose from).

>

> I cannot follow your first sentence. Overall condi Herald kills veteran and lower mobs faster Than renegade in open world, since you have straight out access to fury and 25 might.

>

> Neither is good in open world PvE though. Power herald can kill mobs in a fraction of that time. Also, compared to most other condi builds, condi rev ramp up time is too high.

 

My 1st sentence was something like, if stats dont help condis do damage, or the conditions rev has dont put much pressure on targets like other classes do(as in dont carry much the player as some condi builds do)?

 

Helald since its based on glint is more towards team support, it still bites me why people want to use it for condi builds :\

 

How bad this build would be(i know theres most powercreep builds on pvp, buts that due how Anet wants to help casuals succeed with damage gimmicks)?

 

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vlAQNApXlnfNWMTuJvmRHlZzskytZ4SZ3Mor8bmlTlS9C+gR4/EXxYMNAKgGA-jJx1wAPfAA9KDAY/hjnAAA

[Noha.3749]

Just gave my old boosted to 80 rev a chance and must say i really enjoy it.

Especially in WvW zergs and roaming.

 

I really do not find them being that clunky, maybe its just because i main engineer/thief or maybe because.. well.. others are not used/comfortable to multitask a bit.

 

Im really miles from being great and havent played much PvE on my rev yet. But here is my experience this far from a WvW perspective (sorry i know you didnt ask for WvW):

Herald is great, simple and wanted everywere in WvW.

Hammer deals insane spikedamage on low CD, in optimal situations i outdps alot of elementalists (unless they land some godly firestaff 5, nothing beats that).

Staff is a solid utilityweapon.

Sword/Sword deals crazy burstdamage with most of its abilities.

Havent tried the other weapons enough to comment them.

Rev downed state sucks ALOT though, once you go down you wont beat anything.

 

Shiro is... far from my favourite legend though. I dont find it that useful for larger fights except for the stunbreak dodge. Cant say i find any major dps increase in using it neither. Its better for duels/roaming.

[idolin.2831]

> @"Noha.3749" said:

> Shiro is... far from my favourite legend though. I dont find it that useful for larger fights except for the stunbreak dodge. Cant say i find any major dps increase in using it neither. Its better for duels/roaming.

 

If you play a pure backline build then Shiro might be useful with the superspeed (to re-position) and the extra damage on Impossible Odds, and of course the stunbreak dodge as you mentioned. That's not my style though - I'd much prefer to use more tanky gear, run Jalis/Glint, and help the FB with stab and damage reduction on pushes, mainly because I usually run in a tight guild group.

 

As for the OP, if you ever want to WvW, Herald is great for both zerging and roaming (as @"Noha.3749" said). In zergs, Hammer deals massive damage, Jalis provides good damage reduction through Rite of the Great Dwarf and some stability through Inspiring Reinforcement (roads) and F2, Glint provides some might and fury, and Mallyx provides tons of Resistance. Overall it makes a great backline or a decent support/frontline.

 

As for roaming, Power Herald when played right is pretty dangerous - massive damage with Sword/Sword, boosted by nearly perma 25 stacks of might, good mobility in Shiro, good CC with Glint Elite and staff 5, although it takes time to learn how to kite and time your bursts, and you'll have a hard time with condi classes, especially condi mirage unless you massively outplay them.

 

 

[Blood Red Arachnid.2493]

I definitely like it. The main strength of the class is that it is easy to do well without having to put in too much effort. The class has surprising fortitude, and is capable of soloing many champions at point blank even in glass cannon gear. Herald is great at buffing PUGs and overworld events. Renegade is good for AoEs, control, and healing. The class can do well in both PVE and WvW with minimal changes to the build.

 

The downside is at peak PVE play. The herald is just mediocre when it comes to DPS and unique support abilities. It's still fairly easy to play, though. The renegade is better, but the maximum DPS rotation has face-melting difficulty and requires a lot of uncontrollable variables to be in place in order to pull it off. The ramp-up on renegade conditions is pretty long, too.

[Dace.8173]

> @"Blood Red Arachnid.2493" said:

> I definitely like it. The main strength of the class is that it is easy to do well without having to put in too much effort. The class has surprising fortitude, and is capable of soloing many champions at point blank even in glass cannon gear. Herald is great at buffing PUGs and overworld events. Renegade is good for AoEs, control, and healing. The class can do well in both PVE and WvW with minimal changes to the build.

>

> The downside is at peak PVE play. The herald is just mediocre when it comes to DPS and unique support abilities. It's still fairly easy to play, though. The renegade is better, but the maximum DPS rotation has face-melting difficulty and requires a lot of uncontrollable variables to be in place in order to pull it off. The ramp-up on renegade conditions is pretty long, too.

 

I would say the opposite to be true, that the profession is not easy to do well with without much effort. If you are not managing Energy properly you aren't going to do well and a lot of the complaints I've seen about how bad the profession is tends to revolve around not being able to micromanage your abilities. I think it's easy for people who enjoy micromanaging and are already good at it but if you are not used to it (or dislike micromanagement) then it will require a bit more effort as it has matters most professions don't need to concern themselves with, such as your weapon abilities not being available due to mismanagement. I've seen a lot of complaints from folks about not having key abilities when they need them, all the result of simply not managing your Energy right.

 

 

[Blood Red Arachnid.2493]

> @"Dace.8173" said:

> > @"Blood Red Arachnid.2493" said:

> > I definitely like it. The main strength of the class is that it is easy to do well without having to put in too much effort. The class has surprising fortitude, and is capable of soloing many champions at point blank even in glass cannon gear. Herald is great at buffing PUGs and overworld events. Renegade is good for AoEs, control, and healing. The class can do well in both PVE and WvW with minimal changes to the build.

> >

> > The downside is at peak PVE play. The herald is just mediocre when it comes to DPS and unique support abilities. It's still fairly easy to play, though. The renegade is better, but the maximum DPS rotation has face-melting difficulty and requires a lot of uncontrollable variables to be in place in order to pull it off. The ramp-up on renegade conditions is pretty long, too.

>

> I would say the opposite to be true, that the profession is not easy to do well with without much effort. If you are not managing Energy properly you aren't going to do well and a lot of the complaints I've seen about how bad the profession is tends to revolve around not being able to micromanage your abilities. I think it's easy for people who enjoy micromanaging and are already good at it but if you are not used to it (or dislike micromanagement) then it will require a bit more effort as it has matters most professions don't need to concern themselves with, such as your weapon abilities not being available due to mismanagement. I've seen a lot of complaints from folks about not having key abilities when they need them, all the result of simply not managing your Energy right.

>

>

 

It's only high end renegade rotations that require precise energy management. For everyone else, the energy problem is solved by swapping legends when you run out, or swapping legends when it is off cooldown.

[Dace.8173]

> @"Blood Red Arachnid.2493" said:

> > @"Dace.8173" said:

> > > @"Blood Red Arachnid.2493" said:

> > > I definitely like it. The main strength of the class is that it is easy to do well without having to put in too much effort. The class has surprising fortitude, and is capable of soloing many champions at point blank even in glass cannon gear. Herald is great at buffing PUGs and overworld events. Renegade is good for AoEs, control, and healing. The class can do well in both PVE and WvW with minimal changes to the build.

> > >

> > > The downside is at peak PVE play. The herald is just mediocre when it comes to DPS and unique support abilities. It's still fairly easy to play, though. The renegade is better, but the maximum DPS rotation has face-melting difficulty and requires a lot of uncontrollable variables to be in place in order to pull it off. The ramp-up on renegade conditions is pretty long, too.

> >

> > I would say the opposite to be true, that the profession is not easy to do well with without much effort. If you are not managing Energy properly you aren't going to do well and a lot of the complaints I've seen about how bad the profession is tends to revolve around not being able to micromanage your abilities. I think it's easy for people who enjoy micromanaging and are already good at it but if you are not used to it (or dislike micromanagement) then it will require a bit more effort as it has matters most professions don't need to concern themselves with, such as your weapon abilities not being available due to mismanagement. I've seen a lot of complaints from folks about not having key abilities when they need them, all the result of simply not managing your Energy right.

> >

> >

>

> It's only high end renegade rotations that require precise energy management. For everyone else, the energy problem is solved by swapping legends when you run out, or swapping legends when it is off cooldown.

 

Read some of the threads on this forum and you'll see what I'm talking about. There is a genuine segment of folks who want to play Revenant but do not like swapping Legends, managing Energy, feel that your weapons shouldn't be draining Energy, want some weapons to give you back Energy, feel that Energy needs to drain slower so you can remain camped in one Legend longer etc etc. I'm not disagreeing with you on how to solve those issues. I'm just stating that the profession is not easy for a lot of folks as it requires a play style that pretty much no one else in the game engages in. For people who take to Revenant's playstyle then the profession is fairly simple, with little effort. However, based on numerous conversations I've had about Revenant, I've come to believe that not everyone takes to the profession in a fast, easy, effortless way. More so when you compare Revenant to some of its peers. It's for those reasons that I typically put Revenant in the same category as Elementalist and Engineer. Easy for those who naturally get that playstyle but troublesome for folks who do not take to micromanaging professions. Being good with it will require effort from most people if some of the conversations on what is wrong with Revenant and why we need to screw around with Energy are any indication.

 

I typically tell people that it's a micromanagement profession and if that's easy for you then you'll do fine. If not then you won't. Elementalist is the same way really, if you grasp how it works off the bat then it is rather effortless, sadly that is not everyone. Until Holosmith, Engineer was in the same boat.

[otto.5684]

> @"Blood Red Arachnid.2493" said:

> > @"Dace.8173" said:

> > > @"Blood Red Arachnid.2493" said:

> > > I definitely like it. The main strength of the class is that it is easy to do well without having to put in too much effort. The class has surprising fortitude, and is capable of soloing many champions at point blank even in glass cannon gear. Herald is great at buffing PUGs and overworld events. Renegade is good for AoEs, control, and healing. The class can do well in both PVE and WvW with minimal changes to the build.

> > >

> > > The downside is at peak PVE play. The herald is just mediocre when it comes to DPS and unique support abilities. It's still fairly easy to play, though. The renegade is better, but the maximum DPS rotation has face-melting difficulty and requires a lot of uncontrollable variables to be in place in order to pull it off. The ramp-up on renegade conditions is pretty long, too.

> >

> > I would say the opposite to be true, that the profession is not easy to do well with without much effort. If you are not managing Energy properly you aren't going to do well and a lot of the complaints I've seen about how bad the profession is tends to revolve around not being able to micromanage your abilities. I think it's easy for people who enjoy micromanaging and are already good at it but if you are not used to it (or dislike micromanagement) then it will require a bit more effort as it has matters most professions don't need to concern themselves with, such as your weapon abilities not being available due to mismanagement. I've seen a lot of complaints from folks about not having key abilities when they need them, all the result of simply not managing your Energy right.

> >

> >

>

> It's only high end renegade rotations that require precise energy management. For everyone else, the energy problem is solved by swapping legends when you run out, or swapping legends when it is off cooldown.

 

 

[otto.5684]

Issue is more on the PvP side. Outside of glint/shiro the energy costs in PvP are a serious hammper. Many utilities will be better off with CD/longer CD instead and low energy costs.

[LucianTheAngelic.7054]

> @"otto.5684" said:

> Issue is more on the PvP side. Outside of glint/shiro the energy costs in PvP are a serious hammper. Many utilities will be better off with CD/longer CD instead and low energy costs.

 

**Strongly** disagree on the need for CD/low CD w/low energy cost on utilities. What they need to do is just make it so that the non-shiro/Glint utilities are actually worth using in pvp. Jalis had this treatment done to two of its utilities and it didn’t make it particularly better in PvP.

 

Also using Unyielding Anguish as an example, a 5s+ cooldown on it would make it lose its functionality as a good, relatively spammable, movement ability. Additionally it used to have good damage before Abyssal Chill got nerfed, but since then it hasn’t had the same pressure it once had, so the natural thing to do here would be to give it (and the other utility skills in similar situations) buffs to make it/them better. CDs with low energy costs isn’t going to solve the issues you want them to solve

[Za Shaloc.3908]

Yeah putting CDs on Mallyx would kill a lot of build diversity and viability for the legend. There are situations where it is really advantageous to be able to spam every utility skill it has. Regarding energy, a shave of 5 energy to either UA or PA would be enough, but giving any of the skills the Forced Engagement treatment would really mess with the build. Jalis has a very different kit than Mallyx. The one skill in Mallyx that I think needs a "rework" is the elite because it is a pretty boring and unimpactful skill that has a bit too much overlap with UA and that is taking up space for something potentially really cool.

[Catchyfx.5768]

I like Rev gamplay but I dont like you cannot specialize on 1 thing because you need use 2 legends and cannot camp one. So if you play core you need to swap between DMG shiro to for example tank Jalis. In PvP i dont like there isnt more build diversity Shiro/glint is only build that can catch up meta and make some impact. If I was creating rev I was hoping for tons of builds thanks to legends but thats not going to happend. Its kinda limiting, you can only par a legends and not utilities. Yeah utilities ara mostly usefull I dont wanna bash it here I still like to play this class. But this build diversity :scream: .