Thornwolf.9721 Posted October 29, 2018 Share Posted October 29, 2018 > @"Svez Poizon XD.5268" said: > > @"Dadnir.5038" said: > > > @"Svez Poizon XD.5268" said: > > > **_Explanation-how strong renegade is:_** > > > > > > (...). It has 0,5 sec cd and with quickness that is 0,25 sec per shot > > > > Well... No. quickness raise attack speed by 50% not 100% so it should be something like 0.375 second per shot. > > > > > ... that carry 2 procs of life steal with it.... > > > > Like someone said Life siphon only proc on physical damage. So it's only proc on the explosive part of the arrow. > > > > > so you actually do ~800 true dmg and 800-1300+ healing per shot and you can do 4 shots per sec and 8 procs of ultimate life steal. > > > > On a single target it's 62 damage at best, it may heal up to 320 health point per arrow. You'll land 5 arrows in 2 seconds (8 in 3 seconds, 10 in 4 seconds, 13 in 5 seconds, 16 in 6 seconds, 18 in 7 seconds... etc.) not 4 per seconds. If you spend your time auto attacking on 5 mindless target you might achieve an average personnal sustain of almost 900 health per second which is relatively average. > > > > > And that is not all.... rune of the mad king spawns "Hunter's call" ranger spell that does 16x tiks of dmg when you cast you ultimate, also icerazor's ire has 20x tiks of dmg and there is 15x F3 bombardement etc which makes these 3 up to 51x tiks procs of life steal dmg from ultimate without spamming 1111 shortbow-shattershot. So as i said above, life siphon/steal dmg has very bad power scaling and very high base dmg stats which means you don't rly need offensive stats. So i used minstrel gear(toughness,healing power,vitality,concentration) and i bursted ppl down so fast many times in wvw/pvp. Healing is insane, best sustain in game i can say and if you are good in maths 51x 400 true dmg per proc on ultimate is around ~20 000 true dmg for very very short time without 111 spaming that do 800 true dmg per shot or around 2400-3200 true dmg per sec by just spamming arrows. I use 2 shortbows in both weapon slots and reason why is this so good-you also don't use energy on 1 skill and it also do most dmg and healing. > > > > You amusingly count life siphon damage as if a single target was hit by them. Let's be realist, your 20 000 true damage "burst", realistically, on a single target barely amount to 2700 true damage at best which is very far from being life threatening. Especially since true damage don't crit which make those damage a joke. > > > > I won't continue to comment but know that necromancers have a lot of life siphon effects and can potentially land more of them than the renegade since release. Sadly life siphon effects are far from being as effective than what you think or else every necromancers would always play "vampire" build which are, in reality, below average builds. > > Dude, instal arc dps or just watch your damage output... press 0 soulcleave's summit and while you stand on it fire 1 arrow and see how much you proc life steal damage and also healing from it....don't troll me pls because this is not theory crafting i am playing this month or two so pls....i will screenshot things and post here so you guys can stop kitten talking.... Wouldn't matter because in the end a player is not a golem mate, I wouldn't ALLOW you to cast it as I would be too busy CCing you and doing everything to prevent you from doing much of anything. People see a renegade they focus it,so footage like the others have requested would be helpful in proving this build actually works. You're slow as a renegade, you have little cc that can hit if you are going shortbow and your skills are slow. To top all of that off I can knock your spirits away or you out of the summit and as it consumes ALOT of energy, you will run out before you kill me. You talk a big game, but when it comes to providing proof you back off and act like we are idiots and then get mad that we wont stop coming at you with facts. In pvp Herald > Renegade in functionality, Renegade is just cooler to look at and I have tried both and I main a Revy. Renegade won't work against anyone who is not either an Idiot, or any good remotely at their class/the game. So take a chill pill and show us how good it is, and then we will believe you hell id love to run this build If I knew for a fact it would work but im not tearing apart my character to run this if it is trash ~ Sorry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Svez Poizon XD.5268 Posted October 29, 2018 Author Share Posted October 29, 2018 .................................... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thornwolf.9721 Posted October 29, 2018 Share Posted October 29, 2018 > @"Svez Poizon XD.5268" said: > So i am talking about ultimate Soulcleave's summit life siphon/steal damage and healing and this is what it is : > https://prnt.sc/lbzpk3 > This is 1 arrow of shortbow-shattershot and what it does with 0 ultimate : > https://prnt.sc/lbzq2s > This is my standard rotation in wvw/pvp that i use with build and it is: shiro starting, enchanted daggers>phase tranversal>impossible odds>0 energy>F1 legend swap>75 energy> Khalla-renegade>soulcleave's summit>icerazors's ire>Darkrazor's daring>0 energy= dmg in link below and when energy rise up i use renegade 6 healing skill for 10 sec and swap to shiro so i heal in it and wait for another round.... this is link of full burst: > https://prnt.sc/lbzqr5 > That is about minstrel shortbow renegade,there are different options to adjust build but this one is supportive+tank+burst assassin in one. But how does it stack up against other players, show us some footage with some advice on how to play it and what situations are key for what. Again I see the numbers but I don't know what you're hitting or where you are doing this at. Take it out and roam with it and see if it works as you claim, again I could see it working but Im skeptical that it would actually work against another player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knighthonor.4061 Posted October 29, 2018 Share Posted October 29, 2018 Not going to lie, I was fighting some NPC in the open world PvE maps with my Renegade, and totally obliterated that NPC. I was so OP it was straight up crazy!! Need a nerf!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buran.3796 Posted October 29, 2018 Share Posted October 29, 2018 What's next? Double shield builds? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Ketsu.4569 Posted October 29, 2018 Share Posted October 29, 2018 The problem with Kalla is the spirits come out too slow to be a match against good players. You can toss on a Paladins amulet, go Shiro/Kalla, and actually be quite useful in sPvP...Gold II matches and below. It's when you run into players who are not rabid mongeese that the problems with the build start to show. Good players are not going to sit in Ofela and let you lifesteal from them. they are going to kite and kill Ofela and then you have spent your energy for nothing and then you lose. Well organized teams also understand this inherent weakness with Kalla, and will often focus down anyone using Kalla as they know hard-focus will prevent you from having any time to setup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bolero Bloodreign.9025 Posted October 29, 2018 Share Posted October 29, 2018 > @"Svez Poizon XD.5268" said: > **_Explanation-how strong renegade is:_** > > There are 3 types of damage in game(power,condi dmg,life siphon). Life steal dmg can't be reduced by armor and physical dmg reductions. However renegade shortbow 1 do (2x) tiks of dmg per shot(1. arrow, 2. explosion of arrow on impact). As you all know, renegade ultimate is "Soulcleave's Summit" and it gives you ability to do life steal dmg and healing without cooldown on every tik of dmg you do. So if you add quickness to shortbow(brutality trait-devastation,agility sigil) with concentration you get very long quickness every 9 sec or like 6-7 sec of quickness which makes your shattershot shortbow 1 skill so fast. It has 0,5 sec cd and with quickness that is 0,25 sec per shot that carry 2 procs of life steal with it....so you actually do ~800 true dmg and 800-1300+ healing per shot and you can do 4 shots per sec and 8 procs of ultimate life steal. And that is not all.... rune of the mad king spawns "Hunter's call" ranger spell that does 16x tiks of dmg when you cast you ultimate, also icerazor's ire has 20x tiks of dmg and there is 15x F3 bombardement etc which makes these 3 up to 51x tiks procs of life steal dmg from ultimate without spamming 1111 shortbow-shattershot. So as i said above, life siphon/steal dmg has very bad power scaling and very high base dmg stats which means you don't rly need offensive stats. So i used minstrel gear(toughness,healing power,vitality,concentration) and i bursted ppl down so fast many times in wvw/pvp. Healing is insane, best sustain in game i can say and if you are good in maths 51x 400 true dmg per proc on ultimate is around ~20 000 true dmg for very very short time without 111 spaming that do 800 true dmg per shot or around 2400-3200 true dmg per sec by just spamming arrows. I use 2 shortbows in both weapon slots and reason why is this so good-you also don't use energy on 1 skill and it also do most dmg and healing. > > This is build and it looks so bad but if you read this text you will understand the point and how overpowered it can be. > http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vlAQJAVlnXMvNSum7JRZzVlst5rSY3cWJ4besklNl6/HLyjsNAOgGg9LKj2A-j1RHQBiTXAAuEAyT9nIqEsM7PEunAgAV+BA-w > > Build that has good synergy with all minor and major traits, retaliation/might abuse and shortbow 1-shattershot also scales well with power means you can play power build with renegade shortbow, you also dodge a lot... > http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vlAQJAVlnXMvNSum7JRZzVlst5rSY3cWJ4besklZl6/BrwLkdGqheQNAOgFA-j1RGQBmRXw52foeq/ARlgG4JAMQlfA4SAAA-w > > _**Suggestions what can Arenanet improve/change to make Renegade fair to play in pvp/wvw:**_ > > - keep summons killable but unaffected to cc/interupts and reason: because if some1 interupt my summon, summons still use energy and do nothing( knocked back summons change position and i also lose their effects) > > - adjust bleeding scale and bleeding stacks on shortbow weapons and reason: even with 25 might and 1000-1500 condition dmg as base stat and with 100% bleeding duration with trait "Heartpiercer" that gives 25% more bleeding dmg, it still do very little like 1000-1300 bleeding on auto attacks per sec( with maximum buffs) and similar numbers with bloodbane's paths which means so bad compared to power scaling and life siphon heavy dmg. Merge Renegade traits "Blood fury" and "heartpiercer" bleeding buffs to duration 25% and 25% its dmg and make new trait that gives shortbow pierce and adds 1 bleeding stack on every shortbow skill. > > - rework "Sevenshot" and reason: it is so bad and hard to hit in pvp/wvw even with cc(hard to hit all 7 shots) and i have idea how to rework that to be a better spell. Now arrows fire in same point but make arrows spread in like 30deegres angle so players can hit something sometimes and if player want to hit all 7 arrows they should move in melee range. > > - As i read on wiki and tested in game, "Razorclaw's Rage" affect summons too but just "icrazor's ire" and "Darkrazor's Daring" so would be good if it can affect bleeding stack also on healing skill and ultimate so rework it and how: add 1 dmg on healing skill every sec and 1 dmg on ultimate every sec so bleeding can be applied because all summons attack target and do damage. > > - rework "citadel bombardement" and reason why: all missles do not hit and it cost so much energy, F2 and F4 are supportive abilites so make F3- citadel bombadment also supportive(F2 gives might to allies, F3 can give aoe retaliation and that boon can affect summons too so if enemy gonna kill summons,so they can take more damage from retaliation, F4 gives alacrity which is fine like F2. > > - nerf soulcleave's summit life steal damage and reason why- read above my discovery > > - buff projectile speed of schorchrazor(shortbow 5) > > Sorry for my English, it is not my main language. I hope Arenanet will take a look on this.... > > And I still can't solo champions on my renegade as easily as I can on my herald and my other classes. Terrible survivability: Renegade is all pew pew but no woohoo. PvP is not the only game in town. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eros.6801 Posted October 30, 2018 Share Posted October 30, 2018 Just one video about this in WvW, no need for PvP cuz i don't like it. I can't test this build because all my gear aren't like your and it take massive amount of time as well as effort to switch to those stat you mentioned only to see what i don't want to see in the end ?. If its so OP then one video is more than meets the eye here. I have my doubt about this in WvW but i myself playing power renegade in open world and i have to say it really OP, no seriously power renegade is a very powerful open world PvE specs more than Herald by all mean if you know how to make it work. Meanwhile, we all are waiting for your Vid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DemonSeed.3528 Posted October 30, 2018 Share Posted October 30, 2018 I wouldn't mind summons act like shades and can't be killed/cc'd, or make them follow you around like how gyros do, even if clumsy and do something with their cast time. I'm out of ideas for making renegade work nicely in wvw for my needs so I might as well just mess around with this build. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dadnir.5038 Posted October 30, 2018 Share Posted October 30, 2018 > @"Svez Poizon XD.5268" said: > > @"Dadnir.5038" said: > > > @"Svez Poizon XD.5268" said: > > > **_Explanation-how strong renegade is:_** > > > > > > (...). It has 0,5 sec cd and with quickness that is 0,25 sec per shot > > > > Well... No. quickness raise attack speed by 50% not 100% so it should be something like 0.375 second per shot. > > > > > ... that carry 2 procs of life steal with it.... > > > > Like someone said Life siphon only proc on physical damage. So it's only proc on the explosive part of the arrow. > > > > > so you actually do ~800 true dmg and 800-1300+ healing per shot and you can do 4 shots per sec and 8 procs of ultimate life steal. > > > > On a single target it's 62 damage at best, it may heal up to 320 health point per arrow. You'll land 5 arrows in 2 seconds (8 in 3 seconds, 10 in 4 seconds, 13 in 5 seconds, 16 in 6 seconds, 18 in 7 seconds... etc.) not 4 per seconds. If you spend your time auto attacking on 5 mindless target you might achieve an average personnal sustain of almost 900 health per second which is relatively average. > > > > > And that is not all.... rune of the mad king spawns "Hunter's call" ranger spell that does 16x tiks of dmg when you cast you ultimate, also icerazor's ire has 20x tiks of dmg and there is 15x F3 bombardement etc which makes these 3 up to 51x tiks procs of life steal dmg from ultimate without spamming 1111 shortbow-shattershot. So as i said above, life siphon/steal dmg has very bad power scaling and very high base dmg stats which means you don't rly need offensive stats. So i used minstrel gear(toughness,healing power,vitality,concentration) and i bursted ppl down so fast many times in wvw/pvp. Healing is insane, best sustain in game i can say and if you are good in maths 51x 400 true dmg per proc on ultimate is around ~20 000 true dmg for very very short time without 111 spaming that do 800 true dmg per shot or around 2400-3200 true dmg per sec by just spamming arrows. I use 2 shortbows in both weapon slots and reason why is this so good-you also don't use energy on 1 skill and it also do most dmg and healing. > > > > You amusingly count life siphon damage as if a single target was hit by them. Let's be realist, your 20 000 true damage "burst", realistically, on a single target barely amount to 2700 true damage at best which is very far from being life threatening. Especially since true damage don't crit which make those damage a joke. > > > > I won't continue to comment but know that necromancers have a lot of life siphon effects and can potentially land more of them than the renegade since release. Sadly life siphon effects are far from being as effective than what you think or else every necromancers would always play "vampire" build which are, in reality, below average builds. > > Dude, instal arc dps or just watch your damage output... press 0 soulcleave's summit and while you stand on it fire 1 arrow and see how much you proc life steal damage and also healing from it....don't troll me pls because this is not theory crafting i am playing this month or two so pls....i will screenshot things and post here so you guys can stop kitten talking.... "Dude" against a players you don't stand idly next to your turret. You posted a rotation which is most likely full 20 second long, which is not a burst. Even with that soulcleave summit row damage per second isn't that great and far from being 20k burst, it's divided by the time you can effectively benefit from the skill buff which can be very short in PvP/WvW. NB.: your sceenshots are nice and dandy but show nothing. If you really want to give us data, give us a dps graphic per skill on a single target with a time axis, because your rotation is still 20 second long at the very least and the damage done over 20 second isn't nearly as great as you think. (Thought it might be simpler to just make a video and show us the awesomeness of your build in action.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
otto.5684 Posted October 30, 2018 Share Posted October 30, 2018 When I read the OP I was like ???. Then I thought that Anet may be think the same way ?. “It is so OP how do these players NOT GET IT.” OP show us how your wonderful build would work against players with rating platinum and above in sPvP and then we might consider this a “build.” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Svez Poizon XD.5268 Posted October 30, 2018 Author Share Posted October 30, 2018 > @"otto.5684" said: > When I read the OP I was like ???. Then I thought that Anet may be think the same way ?. “It is so OP how do these players NOT GET IT.” > > OP show us how your wonderful build would work against players with rating platinum and above in sPvP and then we might consider this a “build.” Yup yup :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Svez Poizon XD.5268 Posted October 30, 2018 Author Share Posted October 30, 2018 ................................................. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
messiah.1908 Posted October 30, 2018 Share Posted October 30, 2018 love your enthusiasm with renegade. i have also share it with you. i also tested power renegade with sb in wvw with rune of mad king in squad its nice dmg although as ppl mention it renegade summon has problems i have tried some roaming versus melee most of player didnt understand what to do so after the first round they just move away from them. i manage to have fun but versus the meta build it was too hard to handle like deadeye perma stealth, holosmith, spellbreaker... i really love mad king rune as you cast soulcleave on you and even if the enemy is out or running they get hit from 1200 range with tons of burst dmg if they dont dodge or block. is this build useful . versus low lvl yes. in sqaud with tons of blocks and reflect not too much compare to power rev herald. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
narcx.3570 Posted October 30, 2018 Share Posted October 30, 2018 I don't wanna kitten all over your build, since you seem to be having a good time with it--and that's the entire point! (Plus, I'm sure everyone already handled that, haha.) I do wanna offer some suggestions about the scaling involved in it (or lack there of.) Life steal skills scale HORRRRIBLY with healing power, as does Enchanted Daggers' base... This is intentional as the entire intended design of life steal skills is to add some sustain and unmitigatable damage to offensive builds. Essentially, you have just a tremendous amount of wasted stat weight going on... You would get a LOT more mileage out of this build if you got rid of the minstrel and added a bunch of power or condition damage (or both). The way I see a build like this is that you need to do as much with of it as you can in that TINY window before you get focused or caught by Epi's off the front line/1200 ranged cleaves while you're stepping up to try to land your short bow AA from 900. The only defense your entire build has is Riposting shadows, and swapping to Shiro to spam that out of danger effectively ends all of the pressure you were trying to put out, since you have a weapon with a much shorter range. That's assuming you're only zerging... If this build found it's way into a small skirmish or like a one on one situation, no amount of defensive stats will be able to justify the lack of damage as anyone in something even resembling a meta roaming build could just pick you apart at their leisure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phokus.8934 Posted October 30, 2018 Share Posted October 30, 2018 Now the OP is talking about Mesmer greatsword bleeding/condition and sword adding 10-15 confusion stacks? What in the world... And when you claim something to be OP and needing nerf, especially a homemade spec, you better provide gameplay footage of it in action rather than theorycraft if you want people to take you seriously. It’s not our job to do that for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dace.8173 Posted October 30, 2018 Share Posted October 30, 2018 > @"Svez Poizon XD.5268" said: > **_Condition damage renegade build for those who hate me! _** > http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vlAQNAV5nnXMXNSumrJRZz/kst5gSY38QJ4berkFUlKNAKgGQND2gR4PEXxWE-jViAQBdZfAQqcAAXEA9o+jHVyFTlgLS3Q0eCAqbhBA-w > off hand axe 4 applies 4 conditions(chill,slow,torment,poison) "Forced engagement" jalis skill applies also 4 conditions(slow,taunt,vulnerbility,cripple) you also apply burning,bleeding,some confusion,weakness in build but you stack up to 25 might (750 condi dmg and 750 power) with vengeful hammers and each hammer can crit and apply torment from corruption traitline. However you also get perma swiftness by using combos: Inspiring reinforcement(lightining field) 10 sec cd+ Echoing eruption-mace 3(blast finisher) 8 sec cd= 10 sec switness so you can roam. Build is versatile because of very long taunts and 3 sources of slow,weakness(glancing blows-less crits from aggressor). Stats: celestial+viper(trinkets)+trailblazer(trinkets). These condis are hard to clense and cooldown is very short so you can reapply them again on target. Try this one out and leave me alone! I am not gonna make videos because i don't need to prove anything. Try this out if you want if you don't want just leave. Thanks. No one hates you. We just don't believe you. You have been asked multiple times to provide actual evidence for your claims. Not screenshots but actually videos of you doing this in play against real players. At present, you have made unfounded claims and you refuse to back your position with anything other than words. If you want to be taken seriously you need to give us an actual reason to do so. So far you have done nothing to actually address peoples concerns. If you are so confident that this works and is OP then I don't understand why it's so hard for you to provide in-game footage of you doing what you claim can be done. Currently, with as often as you have refused to provide a youtube video for us to examine I'd have to say that the build you are proposing simply does not work. > @"Thornwolf.9721" said: > They could fix it in the following way. > * Make spirits passive, they follow you as summons but perhaps use different variants of skills from the classes they represent. (Messmer has it for their kitten clones, why not let us have some of that love too?) > * Make spirits capable of much more, the utilities could be commands or "Shouts" Which make them use their "Special" abilities while providing movement for the rev. For exampe Icerazor could make him home in and fire his projectiles on a single target of the revs choice. But it also places the rev behind the enemy, and knocks them down if they dont dodge this offers the rev some defensive choices while also giving it the feel of a guerrilla warfare sort of fighter... which essentially is what the renegade was shipped as. > * Make the shortbow switch in its nature just like trident, hell make ALL the rev weapons do that so that they are in line with trident. I feel the trident is the best part of rev, a weapon that swaps its skills damage types based on YOUR choice? That is something that would fix the rev real quick, and make each revenant feel different as well be capable of using the weapons they prefer the most. (Really give us some spice of life, and help with the fact that our weapon choices right now are fairly limited.) > * Remove citadel bombardment for something else that fits the scope, perhaps something to do with kalla herself. Example: Warcry, Shout out an inspiring command giving allies boons. (think "Save yourselves" on the guardian) > > So in summery~ > 1. Fix the utilities to make them better fit the theme as well make them viable for pvp, and wvw as well make them a proper spirit summoning spec. They could also make the spirits change based on your legend, shiro would get shiro-kin and their f-1 through 5 would be commands that allow them to do stuff. Make you a "Commander" of a guerrilla force, not just a well/mark bot. It would add a level of dynamic and intuitive play, rewarding good players who know their class while also being a bit more accessible for the casual audience to the point we might see them surge into other game modes they can't currently participate in.(leave the heal for Renegade alone, perhaps just add some beneficial effects to it? Reflect damage? something cool I don't honestly know.) > 2. Make the shortbow(As well all the rev weapons change based on legend/stat combo to be beneficial whatever and however you want to play.) This would be huge for both revenant and renegade as a whole, offering new ways to play. Pigeon-holing a jack-of-all-trades class who is master of none is not very intuitive in design, Now letting their weapon change as they do? That is how ya do it mon. They could make the condi-variant of the swords provide bleeds, and the others could follow suite offering renegade both a power and a condi aspect to their gameplay.(as well more options for revenants as a whole.) > 3. Perhaps a minor rework to make there be more synergy between revenants, their eliet specs and other aspects of their class and design. A new legend for invocation who is a neutral legend or perhaps neutral rev skills tied to it could be good. Would offer options that are otherwise un-accessible to the revenant as it is now; It needs a bit of love but is by no means a bad design or class. > > In conclusion I'd like to say revenant is my favorite class as it is completely unique and it's feel pulls from shamanism(Communing with spirits, much like the ritualist) and various other forms of spiritual warriors. A being who has traversed the mists and obtained "Otherworldly" power to use at the defense of what they desire or hold dear, a being capable of channeling evil for good? I feel like the theme of the revenant is strong, the legends are not so much and this should of been treated like a hero class from wow. It should of primarily focused on pulling villains we have faced in the previous entries and from the lore, using their dark or otherwise evil magic in the service of good. A dark anti-hero based class that could stand beside the Necromancer as a darker themed "Player Character" I don't mind so much that we have alot of heros like ventari, jalis, Kall. I just mind that they are not as interesting as those we have faced and their opinions on specific events, I wouldn't mind if they had the spirits say during events their feelings on the matter. For example as you're playing mallyx and you go head to head with balthazar he could comment about how ironic it is that the righteous god of war has fallen similar to how abbadon did yet balthazar condemned his brother for doing the very same actions he himself now commit. > > Having played WoW through legion and playing a warlock/shadow priest, the Idea of a weapon or outside source speaking to you as you do your thing is kind of cool and adds a level of immersion that I never knew I wanted. Imagine if shrio talked to you during the story much like how rytlock said the spirits in his head were speaking to him, during HoT? This paired with a more polished design and the addition of weapons changing their effects based on the legend would be very nice indeed, becasuse honestly the design of their attacks, weapons and abilities are freaking cool. They have flair, and uniqueness that suites a game trying to be different then others of the genre and it's a shame the dervish, paragon and ritualist never made it into this game as they too were pretty unique takes on common fantasy tropes. They have a good foundation here they just need to build upon it, IF I had the experience and knew what I was doing (coding) Id apply to be the rev lead designer and work on these changes myself. Perhaps that is what we need; Someone who loves Guild wars but also loves the Revenant and knows where it is strong and where it is weak so that the gaps can be closed. A "Soft" redesign would not be totally bad, as long as they don't gut what makes the revenant different. (Energy management must stay, I enjoy it because it adds to my gameplay and makes me really think before doing something. If I wanted a guardian/warrior I would play those classes, I play the revenant for what it is but that does not mean I don't see the glaring issues of the class as a whole.) Every class has flaws, the revenants is that is is more limited then the other class's but it makes up for it with fun and intense gameplay... nothing like outplaying one of the A-net babies (Ele, messmer, warrior, ranger..) and beating them not because your kit is better... but because you yourself are due to knowing your class and it's limits as well how to counter those limits. > If they were made into a clone like mechanic it would lose it's AOE effect. Mesmer clones don't run around engaged as an AOE. It's an interesting idea but it would rob Revenant of a build that can make AOE attacks. Breakrazors Baston, Darkrazor's Daring, and Soulcleaver's Summit would also lose some of their utility as they wouldn't be spamming their benefits to multiple people. Also, unless you gave Renegade the ability to spam these summons (they aren't really spirits) making them into a clone like function would be a drop in overall power as one of the strengths of Mesmer clones is the amount of clones you have running at one time that overwhelms the target and makes targeting the right person tricky. I'm also not sure people would like the change overall as most folks really don't like AIs. It is a frequent complaint from Ranger pets, Engineer turrets, and Scrapper gyros. There is a real dislike of the AI. I'm not sure the movement aspects you suggest would actually work or be worthwhile. Also, the trident feature on more weapons reduces Revenant choices, pigeonholes the profession even more, and would reduce build diversity. On the trident, it is already underwhelming. If you placed it on more weapons you'd have a situation in which it would be a bad idea to run certain Legends. With the trident, there really are only two good options to go with and the other two are underwhelming. There would be even less reason to run some Legends as such a bonus would clearly benefit some over others. On the trident Glint and Mallyx are the only ones worth using. The way Facet of Nature works now also highlights why it's a bad idea. There are numerous threads that talk about how bad the change to Facet of Nature is and what you are talking about is taking Facet of Nature and magnifying the issue. Finally, the Legends themselves become further pigeonholed. It would only be logical to run a Legend in a way that garnered you the most benefit. If you are running Mallyx for Boon and Condition manipulation then it becomes less efficient to do so if it's spamming out a bonus to torment. That bonus would benefit anyone who is running a condi build but anyone who isn't will lose out. Mallyx would turn into a pure condi dps Legend under such a circumstance. It wouldn't be so bad if Revenant could choose utilities as you could mitigate such an effect by pulling in utilities that would help support the overall build but you can't. Nor do I want them to change how Legends utilities work, love how they work. However, because a Legend needs to be able to perform more than one role having a set bonus that changes how your weapons work limits their flexibility. The abilities and weapons would be rebalanced around the fact that Legends are providing additional abilities so if you're not playing to that Legends bonus you are playing a weaker build. In the end, you are taking away player choice, not giving it to them. Instead of keeping them as a jack of all trades you actually are pigeonholing them. Also, I'm glad they don't have a guy who is just there to do Revenant stuff. For starters, that really is a waste of company resources but in my experience having faction specific people does not work out to the benefit of most players. If the players disagree with that individual's ideas then they get lose out and are forced to either give up a faction they like or just settle for not getting what they want. It can also lead to faction favoritism, which is never good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Svez Poizon XD.5268 Posted October 30, 2018 Author Share Posted October 30, 2018 > @"phokus.8934" said: > Now the OP is talking about Mesmer greatsword bleeding/condition and sword adding 10-15 confusion stacks? > > What in the world... > > And when you claim something to be OP and needing nerf, especially a homemade spec, you better provide gameplay footage of it in action rather than theorycraft if you want people to take you seriously. It’s not our job to do that for you. Yup yup :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
narcx.3570 Posted October 31, 2018 Share Posted October 31, 2018 > @"Svez Poizon XD.5268" said: > So if you take a better look you can see that there is infinite horizon mirage trait and that means when you apply daze,your clones also apply daze because daze duration is so short 1/4 sec or 0,25 sec each clone can also interupt with you your target. In dueling you can see last trait(ineptitude) - when you interupt target you blind and every blind is 2 stacks of confusion. Yep, this is what 99% of mirages do. You forget to mention the absolutely broken amount of mobility that sword's ambush skill brings to the table too. But, nobody would ever run *just* Sw/Pistol... Condi/Hybrid Mirage (for the most part) is a spam class, and limiting your active skills by not also having an Axe + Torch/Other offhand is a big misstep--especially considering that since most mirage offhand weapon skills have 20sec+ cool downs, there's literally no reason to not run a second offhand, because you can use them off-cd anyways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dace.8173 Posted October 31, 2018 Share Posted October 31, 2018 > @"Svez Poizon XD.5268" said: >I don't use video recorders but try it by yourself and come here again and say i lied... > At present, there is no reason to try it as you have provided zero evidence that it would be worth anyone's time to do so. Relying on other people to test your build for you and provide evidence for you doesn't make what you propose sound OP. Short of you providing video of you actually doing it in action there is nothing you can say that will convince anyone. Linking builds and screenshots is not going to move anyone. This leaves you with two choices, either provide video of it working as you claim or accept the fact that no one believes you and move on. However, it's been made clear that short of video footage, you will not be taken seriously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phokus.8934 Posted October 31, 2018 Share Posted October 31, 2018 > @"Svez Poizon XD.5268" said: > > @"phokus.8934" said: > > Now the OP is talking about Mesmer greatsword bleeding/condition and sword adding 10-15 confusion stacks? > > > > What in the world... > > > > And when you claim something to be OP and needing nerf, especially a homemade spec, you better provide gameplay footage of it in action rather than theorycraft if you want people to take you seriously. It’s not our job to do that for you. > > **_These things are tested and works in real pvp combat*_** > **_Greatsword mirage build: _** > http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vhAQJARRnELDlphFpBGMDMMjlUDz/A+AnglfglT3gcAUCCAA-j1RAABbq+jHXCg2UCCwTAon9H+TXgYK/AA-w > Higher your precision is-also higher it is for your clones, if close crit,it applies bleeding, greatsword auto attacks do (3x) tiks of dmg for it duration so each close can crit 3 times and each time apply bleeding stack, however your dodge+1 split surge gives you up to 25 might for very short duration which is 750 power and 750 condi dmg and applies up to 25 vulnerbility that buffs your physicial and condi dmg. You also do perma cripple. Belive or not you beat every other mesmer with that build and many classes. > > _**Sword-pistol mirage build:**_ > http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vhAQRAsa8anELDlphVoBGMDMMjlcjyf9f/5vMAStWzsCulJA-jFyHQBxT9Ha9EAooSQgsPQzWYAAnEgAq8Lc6HAA-w > You need actually 1 sword in top weapon slot and 1 pistol on bottom weapon slot so you can swap weapons with just 1 sword and 1 pistol and proc energy sigil. > So if you take a better look you can see that there is infinite horizon mirage trait and that means when you apply daze,your clones also apply daze because daze duration is so short 1/4 sec or 0,25 sec each clone can also interupt with you your target. In dueling you can see last trait(ineptitude) - when you interupt target you blind and every blind is 2 stacks of confusion. Take a look at Chaos traitline last trait(Chaotic interruption) you will see that if you interupt your target you apply imobilize and you get 5 might, however you also get a chance to apply random condition( blind,chill,cripple) and get random boon....so lets say your clones jump with you on same target and do 4 interupts, and each of those have a chance of 2 blinds or 4 confusion stacks. So if you keep spamming dodge-1 you win so easily in 1v1. I don't use video recorders but try it by yourself and come here again and say i lied... > I don't even know where to start with this so I'm just going to say the following... You obviously don't bother testing these builds out extensively or under any competitive scenario. Your first build is not optimal and isn't beating any Chrono or Mirage who has half a brain. You're sticking with double greatsword which, I don't even know what is going on with this madness. Your second build traits are decent but far from optimal. And your obsession with stacking the same weapons is very confusing. I play almost exclusively Mesmer in every game mode (but have been playing Herald Revenant as of late during pvp off season) and the builds you're coming up with just don't work. At this point during these elites life cycle, there are no new hidden overpowered ways of playing these classes. I think we all commend you on thinking outside of the box. However, when you're making claims that a certain setup is OP and not providing any in game footage of you pulling off these theories then don't get upset when we question what you're saying. Your theorycrafting works in a vacuum but the volatile nature of wvw/pvp makes your builds fall well short of the sniff test. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CRrabbit.1284 Posted October 31, 2018 Share Posted October 31, 2018 > @"Svez Poizon XD.5268" said: > **_Condition damage renegade build for those who hate me! _** > http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vlAQNAV5nnXMXNSumrJRZz/kst5gSY38QJ4berkFUlKNAKgGQND2gR4PEXxWE-jViAQBdZfAQqcAAXEA9o+jHVyFTlgLS3Q0eCAqbhBA-w > off hand axe 4 applies 4 conditions(chill,slow,torment,poison) "Forced engagement" jalis skill applies also 4 conditions(slow,taunt,vulnerbility,cripple) you also apply burning,bleeding,some confusion,weakness in build but you stack up to 25 might (750 condi dmg and 750 power) with vengeful hammers and each hammer can crit and apply torment from corruption traitline. However you also get perma swiftness by using combos: Inspiring reinforcement(lightining field) 10 sec cd+ Echoing eruption-mace 3(blast finisher) 8 sec cd= 10 sec switness so you can roam. Build is versatile because of very long taunts and 3 sources of slow,weakness(glancing blows-less crits from aggressor). Stats: celestial+viper(trinkets)+trailblazer(trinkets). These condis are hard to clense and cooldown is very short so you can reapply them again on target. Try this one out and leave me alone! I am not gonna make videos because i don't need to prove anything. Try this out if you want if you don't want just leave. Thanks. Just wondering what is this build for? Based on link it's for WvW. However, if it's zerg play, you either kill opponents in 2 second or get melted in 2 seconds, all the condition duration is useless since once target out of range they always have million ways to get rid of condi , for the frontlines they always have perma resistance. For roaming this build have zero mobility, a mediocre pew pew pew soulbeast (most popular everywhere) can easily kite you to the death. Might be a good try in PvP tho especially for some point defense since you can output very high condi pressure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knighthonor.4061 Posted November 1, 2018 Share Posted November 1, 2018 Ok I tested this build. Not sure why but it's Working. Beside the normal burst from meta builds of other OP classes, it's great at dishing out some well placed burst and CC with major sustain. Problem is it's too easy to counter this with the current weakness of the renegade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aridon.8362 Posted November 1, 2018 Share Posted November 1, 2018 I mean revenant is probably the second or third most hardest class to learn in the game. Given time eventually someone will find a way to make something unusual work. If I remember correctly, Arkenryuken or Arken as people like to call him made it to legendary tier in spvp using the harrier stat on firebrand. Nobody else could do it but somehow he did lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LazySummer.2568 Posted November 1, 2018 Share Posted November 1, 2018 There're no such things as minstrel and concentration sigil in spvp, with the closest thing you can get for high boon uptime being glass cannon amulets such as diviner, and harriers and your build sounds like some pew pew build where you're heavily reliant on quickness to make a bunch of attacks to proc life steal damage so this is a wvw only build. With that said, how can renegade ever be good in wvw when its whole kit consist of stationary aoe denial that can be killed/cced? it'll be useless in roaming because nobody is going to stand in your aoes in wide open areas, and they certainly wont let you just free cast in your Soulcleave's Summit Elite without putting pressure on you or just kiting away until they're out of range of your attacks. That leaves you to play with a zerg, and there, you're basically a weaker scourge because your aoes don't move around, will be killed/cced easily by any type of cleave, and you don't even bring boon removal. The best you can do with renegade in wvw is probably kill daily farmers that don't know any better Like others said, you'll need to provide some footage to convince people because otherwise, it's all paper theorycraft, and I've just "theorycrafted" my way as to why your build isn't good, much less being OP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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