Since DE can go invis whenever they want

[Math.5123]

> @"Faux Play.6104" said:

> > @"TheDevice.2751" said:

> > Literally can just go invis if you happened to be able to reach them.

> >

> > Can Reapers get unlimited LF and zero cooldown shroud to enter whenever they get threatened?

>

> Reaper should be an easy win vs deadeye

 

You heard it here first boys.

 

 

 

 

[Kako.1930]

> @"NICENIKESHOE.7128" said:

> I guess the real question is...

>

> Who would win between an infinite reapershroud and infinite stealth?

 

Nobody wins.

[MUDse.7623]

> @"Kako.1930" said:

> > @"NICENIKESHOE.7128" said:

> > I guess the real question is...

> >

> > Who would win between an infinite reapershroud and infinite stealth?

>

> Nobody wins.

 

the reaper will win. when the reaper sleeps the thief cant kill him still (+ would break stealth on attack), yet while the thief sleeps (or was so stupid to attack the reaper) the reaper can find him and kill him as stealth does maybe reduce damage if traited but doesnt prevent it.

 

Edit: i know the question wasnt serious, but people often forget that stealth is not invulnerable.

[Airdive.2613]

> @"NICENIKESHOE.7128" said:

> I guess the real question is...

>

> Who would win between an infinite reapershroud and infinite stealth?

 

But but, this one is easy. You can't capture while invisible.

[TheDevice.2751]

> @"Trevor Boyer.6524" said:

> There is enough reveal in the game now to counter such frequent stealthing. The bigger problem with DE is its elite Shadow Meld, which removes reveal. In my opinion, Shadow Meld shouldn't be a 2 ammo skill. It should be a single use with a slightly longer CD. That skill is a lot more powerful than people realize it is.

 

Point to me the Necromancer reveal.

[TheDevice.2751]

> @"syszery.1592" said:

> > @"TheDevice.2751" said:

> > Literally can just go invis if you happened to be able to reach them.

> >

> > Can Reapers get unlimited LF and zero cooldown shroud to enter whenever they get threatened?

>

> I understand that it is incredibly frustrating to fight a deadeye on necro (but even more satisfying if you mange to win...) but don't pretend to be beating any other thief build on reaper with ease...

 

truth

[sephiroth.4217]

> @"TheDevice.2751" said:

> > @"Trevor Boyer.6524" said:

> > There is enough reveal in the game now to counter such frequent stealthing. The bigger problem with DE is its elite Shadow Meld, which removes reveal. In my opinion, Shadow Meld shouldn't be a 2 ammo skill. It should be a single use with a slightly longer CD. That skill is a lot more powerful than people realize it is.

>

> Point to me the Necromancer reveal.

 

Shroud 5 on core.

 

You should have said Elementalist or Mesmer, not that Mes needs it.

[MUDse.7623]

> @"sephiroth.4217" said:

> > @"TheDevice.2751" said:

> > > @"Trevor Boyer.6524" said:

> > > There is enough reveal in the game now to counter such frequent stealthing. The bigger problem with DE is its elite Shadow Meld, which removes reveal. In my opinion, Shadow Meld shouldn't be a 2 ammo skill. It should be a single use with a slightly longer CD. That skill is a lot more powerful than people realize it is.

> >

> > Point to me the Necromancer reveal.

>

> Shroud 5 on core.

>

> You should have said Elementalist or Mesmer, not that Mes needs it.

 

and thief, aside from our selfreveal.

[TheDevice.2751]

> @"sephiroth.4217" said:

> > @"TheDevice.2751" said:

> > > @"Trevor Boyer.6524" said:

> > > There is enough reveal in the game now to counter such frequent stealthing. The bigger problem with DE is its elite Shadow Meld, which removes reveal. In my opinion, Shadow Meld shouldn't be a 2 ammo skill. It should be a single use with a slightly longer CD. That skill is a lot more powerful than people realize it is.

> >

> > Point to me the Necromancer reveal.

>

> Shroud 5 on core.

>

> You should have said Elementalist or Mesmer, not that Mes needs it.

 

I think i'll stick with necromancer. This is exactly the point.

 

The 40 seconds (Forty) cooldown skill on shroud 5 (which shroud has its own cooldown). That forty seconds is double the majority of skills that offer reveal and **at least** 15 seconds longer than the longest cooldown skill with revealed. Necro's have the longest cooldown skill while most are 25 seconds or lower while also being the most conditional.

 

(not to mention: whotf plays core necro?)

 

Is this "enough reveal" on the necro? It's like saying having one skill on a 40-second cooldown on the entire profession which gives 5 seconds of protection is "enough" protection. Is it though?

 

You can say "oh well this is in counter to another defensive or core mechanic". Ah, but if we compare it to something like "unblockable" vs blocking enemies, there actually IS "enough" unblockable skills in the game to counter blocking. There is actually enough of anything else in the game to counter a particular mechanic **except** stealth. Also "revealed" is a relatively recent mechanic added to the game (very recent in fact). This is just telling of how stealth has been and continues to be an issue with gw2 imo.

[TheDevice.2751]

> @"TheDevice.2751" said:

> > @"sephiroth.4217" said:

> > > @"TheDevice.2751" said:

> > > > @"Trevor Boyer.6524" said:

> > > > There is enough reveal in the game now to counter such frequent stealthing. The bigger problem with DE is its elite Shadow Meld, which removes reveal. In my opinion, Shadow Meld shouldn't be a 2 ammo skill. It should be a single use with a slightly longer CD. That skill is a lot more powerful than people realize it is.

> > >

> > > Point to me the Necromancer reveal.

> >

> > Shroud 5 on core.

> >

> > You should have said Elementalist or Mesmer, not that Mes needs it.

>

> I think i'll stick with necromancer. This is exactly the point.

>

> The 40 seconds (Forty) cooldown skill on shroud 5 (which shroud has its own cooldown). That forty seconds is double the majority of skills that offer reveal and **at least** 15 seconds longer than the longest cooldown skill with revealed. Necro's have the longest cooldown skill while most are 25 seconds or lower.

>

> Is this "enough reveal" on the necro? It's like saying having one skill on a 40-second cooldown on the entire profession which gives 5 seconds of protection is "enough" protection. Is it though?

>

> You can say "oh well this is in counter to another defensive or core mechanic". Ah, but if we compare it to something like "unblockable" vs blocking enemies, there actually IS "enough" unblockable skills in the game to counter blocking. There is actually enough of anything else in the game to counter a particular mechanic **except** stealth. Also "revealed" is a relatively recent mechanic added to the game (very recent in fact). This is just telling of how stealth has been and continues to be an issue with gw2 imo.

 

> @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > @"TheDevice.2751" said:

> > > @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > > I don't get the problem here ... it costs to get that on demand invis ... don't pretend it doesn't.

> >

> > Not a surprise since you always take issue with anyone having issues with game balance. Not sure you've ever agreed with any OP on these forums. So, again, not surprising.

>

>

> Doesn't change what I said ... there is a cost to a DE getting on-demand invisibility that you aren't willing to recognize and until you do, you got no chance to be taken seriously here. You shouldn't let your past experience discussing bad ideas with me cloud your judgment on responding to my legitimate comments.

 

You clearly don't discuss anything other than "bad idea's" or what you perceive as a bad idea. You sound more like an ANET lackey than anything else half the time which makes your consistent gw2 white-knight-ing more irritating than thought-provoking. The "bad idea" was to be bothered by your fanaticism with defending this game.

 

The very fact that Revealed is a recent addition to the game conveys the lack of judgment on the mechanic anet has traditionally had. If I were to have complained about stealth before revealed you would have defended it then also.

 

You're also somebody who absorbs too much with a teacher's pet sense of seriousness. You robotically and conveniently can't or won't differentiate real arguments from off-handed ones made in a purposefully hyperbolic or casually comedic (albeit frustrated) fashion. Apparently, these are the only "arguments" you feel mentally comfortable debunking...

[MUDse.7623]

> @"TheDevice.2751" said:

> The very fact that Revealed is a recent addition to the game conveys the lack of judgment on the mechanic anet has traditionally had. If I were to have complained about stealth before revealed you would have defended it then also.

 

revealed is not new.

 

adding it to skills wasnt at launch, but reveal isnt new. probably thats why reveal is so badly designed. its a too powerfull counter for a teammode as it is scaling, wich is why it wont be abundant or with more anti-reveal. if reveal was changed so it doesnt break stealth but shows the target that applied it the thief, then it could be more abundant. attacking from stealth tho should still show the attacker to all players around, maybe got to seperate it into 2 different effects.

 

 

[Silence.3702]

But don't forget to nerf ele

[DanAlcedo.3281]

> @"MUDse.7623" said:

> > @"TheDevice.2751" said:

> > The very fact that Revealed is a recent addition to the game conveys the lack of judgment on the mechanic anet has traditionally had. If I were to have complained about stealth before revealed you would have defended it then also.

>

> revealed is not new.

>

> adding it to skills wasnt at launch, but reveal isnt new. probably thats why reveal is so badly designed. its a too powerfull counter for a teammode as it is scaling, wich is why it wont be abundant or with more anti-reveal. if reveal was changed so it doesnt break stealth but shows the target that applied it the thief, then it could be more abundant. attacking from stealth tho should still show the attacker to all players around, maybe got to seperate it into 2 different effects.

>

>

The idea that revealed makes the target visible but doenst break stealth is honestly the best idea for anti stealth i have heard since launch.

 

As long the revealed target is only visible for the player casting the reveal.

 

 

Votes Yes.

 

[ParanoidKami.2867]

Thief is a squishy class with not a lot of healing. Just hit him and if he stealths off hit him again. He'll eventually run out of heals and will either die or run off. It's how the class plays. There is nothing wrong with stealth.

[Sieghilde.7632]

> @"ParanoidKami.2867" said:

> Thief is a squishy class with not a lot of healing. Just hit him and if he stealths off hit him again. He'll eventually run out of heals and will either die or run off. It's how the class plays. There is nothing wrong with stealth.

 

That's the problem, though. They stealth and run-off and ten seconds later they're in another position to barrage you from far away. So then you have to pray you can get to them AGAIN only for them to invis and run away again.

 

AOEing rarely works because they run as soon as they see you coming.

[ParanoidKami.2867]

> @"Sieghilde.7632" said:

> > @"ParanoidKami.2867" said:

> > Thief is a squishy class with not a lot of healing. Just hit him and if he stealths off hit him again. He'll eventually run out of heals and will either die or run off. It's how the class plays. There is nothing wrong with stealth.

>

> That's the problem, though. They stealth and run-off and ten seconds later they're in another position to barrage you from far away. So then you have to pray you can get to them AGAIN only for them to invis and run away again.

>

> AOEing rarely works because they run as soon as they see you coming.

 

10 seconds is a huge amount of time XD Stealth is usually only 3 seconds unless you stack it, which costs a lot of initiative or ability usage with high cooldowns. Most stealth skills also have a cast time rather than being instant.

 

You should try to play a stealth class. You'll learn a lot on how they move when invis and what counters them. If you play Deadeye rifle you can also experience easily going through the lower skill levels and then getting countered by higher skilled players since lower skilled players just don't know how to counter them.

[Vieux P.1238]

> @"Crab Fear.1624" said:

> Oooh, I got one.

>

> Mirage gains 50 endurance each time they dodge roll

 

Does'nt dodge roll have it's own cooldown? Kinda defeats the purpose of this thread no?

[mindcircus.1506]

> @"TheDevice.2751" said:

> > @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > I don't get the problem here ... it costs to get that on demand invis ... don't pretend it doesn't.

>

> Not a surprise since you always take issue with anyone having issues with game balance. Not sure you've ever agreed with any OP on these forums. So, again, not surprising.

 

While I frequently disagree with what Obtena has to say, lets not pretend that the overwhelming majority of balance posts in these forums aren't self serving trash posts deserving of ridicule.

[Shagaliscious.6281]

I have dropped DE's with random spam damage when on scourge or reaper, I just guess where he was, reaper 2, reaper 4, by the time he was out of stealth, he was in downstate. Don't get scared when there is a DE on you, try to outplay him. You won't do it everytime, but when you do, it's great.

[Crab Fear.1624]

> @"Vieux P.1238" said:

> > @"Crab Fear.1624" said:

> > Oooh, I got one.

> >

> > Mirage gains 50 endurance each time they dodge roll

>

> Does'nt dodge roll have it's own cooldown? Kinda defeats the purpose of this thread no?

 

How much does a dodge roll cost? 50 energy

 

If a mirage gains 50 energy back from a dodge roll that costs 50 energy, how much energy is left in their endurance bar?

 

Now, open your mouth wide in a goofy grin and slap your forehead.

[SteepledHat.1345]

> @"Craray.2603" said:

> Spectral Grasp is your friend when fighting DE's on a necro. You'll have a good chance to win if followed by a nice combo.

 

If it hits, isn't destroyed since it's a blockable projectile, isn't reflected, or absorbed by an ally.... and it actually pulls. Did I mention if it's reflected and hits you you're pulled to the enemy group. Fun times.

[otto.5684]

> @"ParanoidKami.2867" said:

> > @"Sieghilde.7632" said:

> > > @"ParanoidKami.2867" said:

> > > Thief is a squishy class with not a lot of healing. Just hit him and if he stealths off hit him again. He'll eventually run out of heals and will either die or run off. It's how the class plays. There is nothing wrong with stealth.

> >

> > That's the problem, though. They stealth and run-off and ten seconds later they're in another position to barrage you from far away. So then you have to pray you can get to them AGAIN only for them to invis and run away again.

> >

> > AOEing rarely works because they run as soon as they see you coming.

>

> 10 seconds is a huge amount of time XD Stealth is usually only 3 seconds unless you stack it, which costs a lot of initiative or ability usage with high cooldowns. Most stealth skills also have a cast time rather than being instant.

>

> You should try to play a stealth class. You'll learn a lot on how they move when invis and what counters them. If you play Deadeye rifle you can also experience easily going through the lower skill levels and then getting countered by higher skilled players since lower skilled players just don't know how to counter them.

 

Dude, the meta DE build runs the extra +1 sec stealth and you get stealth on dodge.. For a build that revolves around an unblockable burst from stealth this is most defiantly broken design.

[cyradil.7309]

Excuse me, did you ever played deadeye? I played my DE once without stealth and running away and guess what? I never had a chance against any melee because I died instantly. DE need the stealth and this playstyle to survive.

[Gamble.4580]

To be fare op snipers are always op because they are to get to.. oh it’s gw2 not cod.. then yeah to much dos on range weapon with de

[dDuff.3860]

> @"otto.5684" said:

> > @"ParanoidKami.2867" said:

> > > @"Sieghilde.7632" said:

> > > > @"ParanoidKami.2867" said:

> > > > Thief is a squishy class with not a lot of healing. Just hit him and if he stealths off hit him again. He'll eventually run out of heals and will either die or run off. It's how the class plays. There is nothing wrong with stealth.

> > >

> > > That's the problem, though. They stealth and run-off and ten seconds later they're in another position to barrage you from far away. So then you have to pray you can get to them AGAIN only for them to invis and run away again.

> > >

> > > AOEing rarely works because they run as soon as they see you coming.

> >

> > 10 seconds is a huge amount of time XD Stealth is usually only 3 seconds unless you stack it, which costs a lot of initiative or ability usage with high cooldowns. Most stealth skills also have a cast time rather than being instant.

> >

> > You should try to play a stealth class. You'll learn a lot on how they move when invis and what counters them. If you play Deadeye rifle you can also experience easily going through the lower skill levels and then getting countered by higher skilled players since lower skilled players just don't know how to counter them.

>

> Dude, the meta DE build runs the extra +1 sec stealth and you get stealth on dodge.. For a build that revolves around an unblockable burst from stealth this is most defiantly broken design.

 

meta DE doesn't run SA.