Apokriphos.7042 Posted November 7, 2018 Share Posted November 7, 2018 > @"Cal Cohen.3527" said: > There are no new runes or sigils being added to pvp with this update. Celerity is an existing pve sigil and Vision is a new pve sigil, so neither of them will be available in pvp. Intelligence will retain its existing functionality and will still be available in pvp. > > If you do the math on the Scholar change you'll see that 125 ferocity is about a 3-4% damage increase depending on amulet choice and additional crit chance. Given that the 6 bonus loses 5%>90% the overall damage ends up being pretty similar. You get a bit more damage while under 90% at the cost of damage over 90%, which is probably a positive most of the time but isn't an increase to 1-shot potential. > > There will be a lot of changes to existing runes and sigils for pvp. We have done some preemptive splits and will be keeping a close eye on everything else with the plan of splitting anything that becomes too much of a problem. I would like to second the request to reconsider these changes for wvw. It will devastate the small group roaming community and lead to the death of any classes that cant survive extreme burst from stealth, greatly reducing roaming class diversity while increasing the survivability of those one shot classes, if they dont have to worry about precision as much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RisenHowl.2419 Posted November 7, 2018 Share Posted November 7, 2018 Know what's awesome? Full valkyrie one shot builds. All of your favorite current one shot builds just gained 10k hp. Which means they'll still one shot any build that isn't running tank gear, but they can't be one shot back. Goodbye class diversity lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teratus.2859 Posted November 7, 2018 Share Posted November 7, 2018 > @"bigo.9037" said: > > @"breno.5423" said: > > https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/november-13-salvage-runes-and-sigils/ > > > > Just, unnecessary. > > I don't even need 1 minute to realize how dumb are these changes at sPvP perspective. > > > > Imagine those bursty builds (engineer static / mesmer shatter zerk / elementalist fresh air...) which cast 10 skills in a second with this new "sigil of vision". The entire burst is gonna be critical, because they don't need 3 seconds to cast everything. > > > > Now imagine firebrand harrier with this new "sigil of celerity". 5 seconds of quickness will become 10. > > > > What about +125 ferocity to Rune of Scholar? This is all what the 1 shot meta asked for. > > > > /cheer > > the quickness sigil is so broken looooooooooooooooooooool Not with 20 seconds of cooldown, blocking or boon stripping it away becomes a high risk for wasting it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RisenHowl.2419 Posted November 7, 2018 Share Posted November 7, 2018 > @"Teratus.2859" said: > > @"bigo.9037" said: > > > @"breno.5423" said: > > > https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/november-13-salvage-runes-and-sigils/ > > > > > > Just, unnecessary. > > > I don't even need 1 minute to realize how dumb are these changes at sPvP perspective. > > > > > > Imagine those bursty builds (engineer static / mesmer shatter zerk / elementalist fresh air...) which cast 10 skills in a second with this new "sigil of vision". The entire burst is gonna be critical, because they don't need 3 seconds to cast everything. > > > > > > Now imagine firebrand harrier with this new "sigil of celerity". 5 seconds of quickness will become 10. > > > > > > What about +125 ferocity to Rune of Scholar? This is all what the 1 shot meta asked for. > > > > > > /cheer > > > > the quickness sigil is so broken looooooooooooooooooooool > > Not with 20 seconds of cooldown, blocking or boon stripping it away becomes a high risk for wasting it. It only fires when you successfully disable, so you can't block it. It also means you need to use a stunbreak, dodge, and boonstrip (if it even gets the quickness) to counter a sigil that fires every 20s. Quickness gs burst from warrior following full counter Quickness 3rb every time a DE marks you Quickness ranger lb burst, without giving up a utility Quickness holo burst freeing up a utility Quickness reaper while they keep blighters boon Quickness mantra mirage gs burst Quickness berserker gunflames back to back Quickness weaver fa burst Alone or combined with 100% crit on weapon swap. That is ALOT of power creep Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teratus.2859 Posted November 7, 2018 Share Posted November 7, 2018 > @"RisenHowl.2419" said: > > @"Teratus.2859" said: > > > @"bigo.9037" said: > > > > @"breno.5423" said: > > > > https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/november-13-salvage-runes-and-sigils/ > > > > > > > > Just, unnecessary. > > > > I don't even need 1 minute to realize how dumb are these changes at sPvP perspective. > > > > > > > > Imagine those bursty builds (engineer static / mesmer shatter zerk / elementalist fresh air...) which cast 10 skills in a second with this new "sigil of vision". The entire burst is gonna be critical, because they don't need 3 seconds to cast everything. > > > > > > > > Now imagine firebrand harrier with this new "sigil of celerity". 5 seconds of quickness will become 10. > > > > > > > > What about +125 ferocity to Rune of Scholar? This is all what the 1 shot meta asked for. > > > > > > > > /cheer > > > > > > the quickness sigil is so broken looooooooooooooooooooool > > > > Not with 20 seconds of cooldown, blocking or boon stripping it away becomes a high risk for wasting it. > > It only fires when you successfully disable, so you can't block it. It also means you need to use a stunbreak, dodge, and boonstrip (if it even gets the quickness) to counter a sigil that fires every 20s. > > Quickness gs burst from warrior following full counter > > Quickness 3rb every time a DE marks you > > Quickness ranger lb burst, without giving up a utility > > Quickness holo burst freeing up a utility > > Quickness reaper while they keep blighters boon > > Quickness mantra mirage gs burst > > Quickness berserker gunflames back to back > > Quickness weaver fa burst > > Alone or combined with 100% crit on weapon swap. That is ALOT of power creep It was just an example, as you said stunbreaks will counter and a lot of people use them anyway which will make a quickness burst predictable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RisenHowl.2419 Posted November 7, 2018 Share Posted November 7, 2018 > @"Teratus.2859" said: > > @"RisenHowl.2419" said: > > > @"Teratus.2859" said: > > > > @"bigo.9037" said: > > > > > @"breno.5423" said: > > > > > https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/november-13-salvage-runes-and-sigils/ > > > > > > > > > > Just, unnecessary. > > > > > I don't even need 1 minute to realize how dumb are these changes at sPvP perspective. > > > > > > > > > > Imagine those bursty builds (engineer static / mesmer shatter zerk / elementalist fresh air...) which cast 10 skills in a second with this new "sigil of vision". The entire burst is gonna be critical, because they don't need 3 seconds to cast everything. > > > > > > > > > > Now imagine firebrand harrier with this new "sigil of celerity". 5 seconds of quickness will become 10. > > > > > > > > > > What about +125 ferocity to Rune of Scholar? This is all what the 1 shot meta asked for. > > > > > > > > > > /cheer > > > > > > > > the quickness sigil is so broken looooooooooooooooooooool > > > > > > Not with 20 seconds of cooldown, blocking or boon stripping it away becomes a high risk for wasting it. > > > > It only fires when you successfully disable, so you can't block it. It also means you need to use a stunbreak, dodge, and boonstrip (if it even gets the quickness) to counter a sigil that fires every 20s. > > > > Quickness gs burst from warrior following full counter > > > > Quickness 3rb every time a DE marks you > > > > Quickness ranger lb burst, without giving up a utility > > > > Quickness holo burst freeing up a utility > > > > Quickness reaper while they keep blighters boon > > > > Quickness mantra mirage gs burst > > > > Quickness berserker gunflames back to back > > > > Quickness weaver fa burst > > > > Alone or combined with 100% crit on weapon swap. That is ALOT of power creep > > It was just an example, as you said stunbreaks will counter and a lot of people use them anyway which will make a quickness burst predictable. I don't think you understand how the sigil is worded man, you only gain quickness when the disable occurs. So if you land any disable, you 100% have quickness for the next 5s to land your burst. You no longer have the option to eat a disable instead of blowing the stunbreak. You have to blow the stunbreak and immediately dodge to avoid some of the quickness burst, losing two defensive cds every 20s because of a sigil. If you blow a boonstrip cd to neutralize the quickness, you no longer have it later to strip stab or resistance to secure a kill. That is crazy strong for a sigil that can proc every 20s There wasn't an issue with sigil of rage before because it had a long CD and could proc at inopportune times, wasting it. Having it proc on a shorter cd and only when you really want quickness is an awful idea Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teratus.2859 Posted November 7, 2018 Share Posted November 7, 2018 > @"RisenHowl.2419" said: > > @"Teratus.2859" said: > > > @"RisenHowl.2419" said: > > > > @"Teratus.2859" said: > > > > > @"bigo.9037" said: > > > > > > @"breno.5423" said: > > > > > > https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/november-13-salvage-runes-and-sigils/ > > > > > > > > > > > > Just, unnecessary. > > > > > > I don't even need 1 minute to realize how dumb are these changes at sPvP perspective. > > > > > > > > > > > > Imagine those bursty builds (engineer static / mesmer shatter zerk / elementalist fresh air...) which cast 10 skills in a second with this new "sigil of vision". The entire burst is gonna be critical, because they don't need 3 seconds to cast everything. > > > > > > > > > > > > Now imagine firebrand harrier with this new "sigil of celerity". 5 seconds of quickness will become 10. > > > > > > > > > > > > What about +125 ferocity to Rune of Scholar? This is all what the 1 shot meta asked for. > > > > > > > > > > > > /cheer > > > > > > > > > > the quickness sigil is so broken looooooooooooooooooooool > > > > > > > > Not with 20 seconds of cooldown, blocking or boon stripping it away becomes a high risk for wasting it. > > > > > > It only fires when you successfully disable, so you can't block it. It also means you need to use a stunbreak, dodge, and boonstrip (if it even gets the quickness) to counter a sigil that fires every 20s. > > > > > > Quickness gs burst from warrior following full counter > > > > > > Quickness 3rb every time a DE marks you > > > > > > Quickness ranger lb burst, without giving up a utility > > > > > > Quickness holo burst freeing up a utility > > > > > > Quickness reaper while they keep blighters boon > > > > > > Quickness mantra mirage gs burst > > > > > > Quickness berserker gunflames back to back > > > > > > Quickness weaver fa burst > > > > > > Alone or combined with 100% crit on weapon swap. That is ALOT of power creep > > > > It was just an example, as you said stunbreaks will counter and a lot of people use them anyway which will make a quickness burst predictable. > > I don't think you understand how the sigil is worded man, you only gain quickness when the disable occurs. So if you land any disable, you 100% have quickness for the next 5s to land your burst. > > You no longer have the option to eat a disable instead of blowing the stunbreak. You have to blow the stunbreak and immediately dodge to avoid some of the quickness burst, losing two defensive cds every 20s because of a sigil. If you blow a boonstrip cd to neutralize the quickness, you no longer have it later to strip stab or resistance to secure a kill. > > That is crazy strong for a sigil that can proc every 20s > > There wasn't an issue with sigil of rage before because it had a long CD and could proc at inopportune times, wasting it. Having it proc on a shorter cd and only when you really want quickness is an awful idea Well from my experience many fights don't tend to last as long as 20 seconds in all honesty.. so at most you'll get to pull off that sigil quickness twice in a straight up 1v1. Unless you're fighting someone who loves to use cheap mechanics like Stealth to buy time. Dodging isn't your only counter though, you could use an evade skill or block to counter the burst instead or return with your own disable burst combo.. there are many options. A warrior with Shield Master could easily turn a quickness hundred blades into a might farm for example. It really just depends on the build, although from what it looks like these sigil/run updates will not be coming to PvP so i guess this is a WvW only issue now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RisenHowl.2419 Posted November 7, 2018 Share Posted November 7, 2018 > @"Teratus.2859" said: > > @"RisenHowl.2419" said: > > > @"Teratus.2859" said: > > > > @"RisenHowl.2419" said: > > > > > @"Teratus.2859" said: > > > > > > @"bigo.9037" said: > > > > > > > @"breno.5423" said: > > > > > > > https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/november-13-salvage-runes-and-sigils/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Just, unnecessary. > > > > > > > I don't even need 1 minute to realize how dumb are these changes at sPvP perspective. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Imagine those bursty builds (engineer static / mesmer shatter zerk / elementalist fresh air...) which cast 10 skills in a second with this new "sigil of vision". The entire burst is gonna be critical, because they don't need 3 seconds to cast everything. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Now imagine firebrand harrier with this new "sigil of celerity". 5 seconds of quickness will become 10. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What about +125 ferocity to Rune of Scholar? This is all what the 1 shot meta asked for. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > /cheer > > > > > > > > > > > > the quickness sigil is so broken looooooooooooooooooooool > > > > > > > > > > Not with 20 seconds of cooldown, blocking or boon stripping it away becomes a high risk for wasting it. > > > > > > > > It only fires when you successfully disable, so you can't block it. It also means you need to use a stunbreak, dodge, and boonstrip (if it even gets the quickness) to counter a sigil that fires every 20s. > > > > > > > > Quickness gs burst from warrior following full counter > > > > > > > > Quickness 3rb every time a DE marks you > > > > > > > > Quickness ranger lb burst, without giving up a utility > > > > > > > > Quickness holo burst freeing up a utility > > > > > > > > Quickness reaper while they keep blighters boon > > > > > > > > Quickness mantra mirage gs burst > > > > > > > > Quickness berserker gunflames back to back > > > > > > > > Quickness weaver fa burst > > > > > > > > Alone or combined with 100% crit on weapon swap. That is ALOT of power creep > > > > > > It was just an example, as you said stunbreaks will counter and a lot of people use them anyway which will make a quickness burst predictable. > > > > I don't think you understand how the sigil is worded man, you only gain quickness when the disable occurs. So if you land any disable, you 100% have quickness for the next 5s to land your burst. > > > > You no longer have the option to eat a disable instead of blowing the stunbreak. You have to blow the stunbreak and immediately dodge to avoid some of the quickness burst, losing two defensive cds every 20s because of a sigil. If you blow a boonstrip cd to neutralize the quickness, you no longer have it later to strip stab or resistance to secure a kill. > > > > That is crazy strong for a sigil that can proc every 20s > > > > There wasn't an issue with sigil of rage before because it had a long CD and could proc at inopportune times, wasting it. Having it proc on a shorter cd and only when you really want quickness is an awful idea > > Well from my experience many fights don't tend to last as long as 20 seconds in all honesty.. so at most you'll get to pull off that sigil quickness twice in a straight up 1v1. > Unless you're fighting someone who loves to use cheap mechanics like Stealth to buy time. > > Dodging isn't your only counter though, you could use an evade skill or block to counter the burst instead or return with your own disable burst combo.. there are many options. > A warrior with Shield Master could easily turn a quickness hundred blades into a might farm for example. > It really just depends on the build, although from what it looks like these sigil/run updates will not be coming to PvP so i guess this is a WvW only issue now. > Have you roamed wvw lately? Cheap stealth tactics and burst setups rule that game mode. These sigil changes only make it worse. Now every single one of those stealth burst combos has easily accessible quickness and guaranteed crits, so they can run vales to be crazy tank on top of everything else. That is not healthy for game play or diversity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MyPuppy.8970 Posted November 7, 2018 Share Posted November 7, 2018 I'm glad they removed the 'get [random/useless stuff] when hit (45~90s)'. And reworked runes that may have never Seen the light out of the merchant's bag. I'm always in for new possibilities and more choices. And for wvw it's not like you could not be bursted down in 1.25s already before. Can't wait to see the full list of changes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silinsar.6298 Posted November 7, 2018 Share Posted November 7, 2018 > @"Cal Cohen.3527" said: > There are no new runes or sigils being added to pvp with this update. Celerity is an existing pve sigil and Vision is a new pve sigil, so neither of them will be available in pvp. Intelligence will retain its existing functionality and will still be available in pvp. > > If you do the math on the Scholar change you'll see that 125 ferocity is about a 3-4% damage increase depending on amulet choice and additional crit chance. Given that the 6 bonus loses 5%>90% the overall damage ends up being pretty similar. You get a bit more damage while under 90% at the cost of damage over 90%, which is probably a positive most of the time but isn't an increase to 1-shot potential. > > There will be a lot of changes to existing runes and sigils for pvp. We have done some preemptive splits and will be keeping a close eye on everything else with the plan of splitting anything that becomes too much of a problem. Please add a / keep the PvP version for the sigils and runes in WvW as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rysdude.3824 Posted November 7, 2018 Share Posted November 7, 2018 > @"WolfSparkSmack.2649" said: > Don't cry, this is epic awesome, its always good when we have a big change, so we can have a whole new experience! > Im excited also. New sigils and runes means new possibilities! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darlgon.9273 Posted November 7, 2018 Share Posted November 7, 2018 I find it very entertaining to login after the announcement. Check BLTC and find all the millions of 19c runes/sigils are now over a silver in price. Almost thought the announcement was an April Fools Day joke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Trejgon.2809 Posted November 7, 2018 Share Posted November 7, 2018 > @"RisenHowl.2419" said: > It only fires when you successfully disable, so you can't block it. It also means you need to use a stunbreak, dodge, and boonstrip (if it even gets the quickness) to counter a sigil that fires every 20s. keyword - successfully disable - if you block, dodge, stablity, blind, etc onto the skill that has CC it won't fire. wih skillfull oponent this may lead to situation when it never fires at all. so saying it will fire every 20s in the very next sentence is not exacly fair. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RisenHowl.2419 Posted November 7, 2018 Share Posted November 7, 2018 > @"Lord Trejgon.2809" said: > > @"RisenHowl.2419" said: > > It only fires when you successfully disable, so you can't block it. It also means you need to use a stunbreak, dodge, and boonstrip (if it even gets the quickness) to counter a sigil that fires every 20s. > > keyword - successfully disable - if you block, dodge, stablity, blind, etc onto the skill that has CC it won't fire. > > wih skillfull oponent this may lead to situation when it never fires at all. > > so saying it will fire every 20s in the very next sentence is not exacly fair. Again, you're not understanding. It only grants quickness when your disable occurs, not on skill use with potential to disable. You can block/evade 3 stuns in a row and the 4th one that connects will grant the quickness. Unless you're suggesting you never get disabled, ever, in an encounter. Which is incredibly unrealistic against any competent player. Edit: in fact that would be worse as it means you've blown every defensive cd avoiding the first 3 disables and have to eat the quickness burst when it comes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shagaliscious.6281 Posted November 7, 2018 Share Posted November 7, 2018 > @"Cal Cohen.3527" said: > There are no new runes or sigils being added to pvp with this update. Celerity is an existing pve sigil and Vision is a new pve sigil, so neither of them will be available in pvp. Intelligence will retain its existing functionality and will still be available in pvp. > > If you do the math on the Scholar change you'll see that 125 ferocity is about a 3-4% damage increase depending on amulet choice and additional crit chance. Given that the 6 bonus loses 5%>90% the overall damage ends up being pretty similar. You get a bit more damage while under 90% at the cost of damage over 90%, which is probably a positive most of the time but isn't an increase to 1-shot potential. > > There will be a lot of changes to existing runes and sigils for pvp. We have done some preemptive splits and will be keeping a close eye on everything else with the plan of splitting anything that becomes too much of a problem. Hi Cal, am I correct in assuming all current sigils will get updated? Or will we need to do some sort of in-game trade for the re-vamped scholar rune? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MyPuppy.8970 Posted November 7, 2018 Share Posted November 7, 2018 I'm so excited! And i just can't hide it! I will use my crowd control, and i think i'll like it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sampson.2403 Posted November 7, 2018 Share Posted November 7, 2018 Not a fan of the rune of scholar change. It's a slight nerf to my one shot mantra mesmer build. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harrison fang.1874 Posted November 7, 2018 Share Posted November 7, 2018 > @"Cal Cohen.3527" said: > There are no new runes or sigils being added to pvp with this update. Celerity is an existing pve sigil and Vision is a new pve sigil, so neither of them will be available in pvp. Intelligence will retain its existing functionality and will still be available in pvp. > > If you do the math on the Scholar change you'll see that 125 ferocity is about a 3-4% damage increase depending on amulet choice and additional crit chance. Given that the 6 bonus loses 5%>90% the overall damage ends up being pretty similar. You get a bit more damage while under 90% at the cost of damage over 90%, which is probably a positive most of the time but isn't an increase to 1-shot potential. > > There will be a lot of changes to existing runes and sigils for pvp. We have done some preemptive splits and will be keeping a close eye on everything else with the plan of splitting anything that becomes too much of a problem. By "new" do you mean bringing a new sigil into the game or do you mean chaging the name of intelligence to vision? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kipthelip.5802 Posted November 7, 2018 Share Posted November 7, 2018 There should be a WvWvW board. Im tired of zeglings coming here to complain about stuff that doesn't effect spvp much at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Trejgon.2809 Posted November 7, 2018 Share Posted November 7, 2018 > @"RisenHowl.2419" said: > > @"Lord Trejgon.2809" said: > > > @"RisenHowl.2419" said: > > > It only fires when you successfully disable, so you can't block it. It also means you need to use a stunbreak, dodge, and boonstrip (if it even gets the quickness) to counter a sigil that fires every 20s. > > > > keyword - successfully disable - if you block, dodge, stablity, blind, etc onto the skill that has CC it won't fire. > > > > wih skillfull oponent this may lead to situation when it never fires at all. > > > > so saying it will fire every 20s in the very next sentence is not exacly fair. > > Again, you're not understanding. It only grants quickness when your disable occurs, not on skill use with potential to disable. You can block/evade 3 stuns in a row and the 4th one that connects will grant the quickness. > Yes I did understand that correctly, and that was my point - no need to burn stunbreak, evade and boonstrip when you can prevent boon being applied in the first place by not allowing disable to land in the first place ;) > Unless you're suggesting you never get disabled, ever, in an encounter. Which is incredibly unrealistic against any competent player. > In a scope of single 1v1 fight is not that unrealistic in "most" cases - sure not every disable skill is well telegraphed, but imo more defensive builds will not have much issues with that specific sigil. > Edit: in fact that would be worse as it means you've blown every defensive cd avoiding the first 3 disables and have to eat the quickness burst when it comes well if enemy lands disable after you've blown out all your defences to avoid previous disables than I'd say GG WP for that guy. Because either he brought more disables to the table than I expected and timed them properly out (spamming 4 disables in a row would be pretty weak when your build for example had a skill giving you 5 stacks of stab and all 4 went onto this stabs due to how fast they were thrown out) or he preplanned his disable uses properly so his first disable came off cd faster than my defences did. in both cases tho saying it will fire every 20s is unfair and unrealistic because it'd require dude to actually land disable every 20s on you and if that is a case then even without that sigil it'd mean you are in trouble.... ontop of that considering few traits reacting to disable you could get a build capable of actually punishing certain builds built around that sigil - since if he lands disable and gain quickness you know at that point he has procced it and can maneuver to waste his quickness burst and follow it up by applying pressure of your own once he burns all of his stuff out..... but yeah that would require more defensive/counter-focused build to work (or thief/mesmer with sufficient amount of evades/stealth just waiting your quickness out) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RisenHowl.2419 Posted November 7, 2018 Share Posted November 7, 2018 > @"Lord Trejgon.2809" said: > > @"RisenHowl.2419" said: > > > @"Lord Trejgon.2809" said: > > > > @"RisenHowl.2419" said: > > > > It only fires when you successfully disable, so you can't block it. It also means you need to use a stunbreak, dodge, and boonstrip (if it even gets the quickness) to counter a sigil that fires every 20s. > > > > > > keyword - successfully disable - if you block, dodge, stablity, blind, etc onto the skill that has CC it won't fire. > > > > > > wih skillfull oponent this may lead to situation when it never fires at all. > > > > > > so saying it will fire every 20s in the very next sentence is not exacly fair. > > > > Again, you're not understanding. It only grants quickness when your disable occurs, not on skill use with potential to disable. You can block/evade 3 stuns in a row and the 4th one that connects will grant the quickness. > > > Yes I did understand that correctly, and that was my point - no need to burn stunbreak, evade and boonstrip when you can prevent boon being applied in the first place by not allowing disable to land in the first place ;) > > > Unless you're suggesting you never get disabled, ever, in an encounter. Which is incredibly unrealistic against any competent player. > > > In a scope of single 1v1 fight is not that unrealistic in "most" cases - sure not every disable skill is well telegraphed, but imo more defensive builds will not have much issues with that specific sigil. > > > > Edit: in fact that would be worse as it means you've blown every defensive cd avoiding the first 3 disables and have to eat the quickness burst when it comes > > well if enemy lands disable after you've blown out all your defences to avoid previous disables than I'd say GG WP for that guy. Because either he brought more disables to the table than I expected and timed them properly out (spamming 4 disables in a row would be pretty weak when your build for example had a skill giving you 5 stacks of stab and all 4 went onto this stabs due to how fast they were thrown out) or he preplanned his disable uses properly so his first disable came off cd faster than my defences did. > > in both cases tho saying it will fire every 20s is unfair and unrealistic because it'd require dude to actually land disable every 20s on you and if that is a case then even without that sigil it'd mean you are in trouble.... > > ontop of that considering few traits reacting to disable you could get a build capable of actually punishing certain builds built around that sigil - since if he lands disable and gain quickness you know at that point he has procced it and can maneuver to waste his quickness burst and follow it up by applying pressure of your own once he burns all of his stuff out..... but yeah that would require more defensive/counter-focused build to work (or thief/mesmer with sufficient amount of evades/stealth just waiting your quickness out) Every thief with trickery 3/1/2 has an instant disable on a 21s CD that steals stab, effectively making it a guarantee to get quickness, vigor, 3 boons stolen (stab is prioritized), gap closer, fury and swiftness to stay on target. Every mantra gs mesmer build can open from stealth with a ranged instant disable that grants quickness to land their burst Every slb can open from stealth with hilt bash into quickness worldly impact, gl not being one shot. How about lb 4/2 from 1800 range with sic em? All three can open in stealth, there is 0 counterplay. Most players coming out of stealth take 1/4-1/2s to even render on your screen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Trejgon.2809 Posted November 8, 2018 Share Posted November 8, 2018 > @"RisenHowl.2419" said: > Every thief with trickery 3/1/2 has an instant disable on a 21s CD that steals stab, effectively making it a guarantee to get quickness, vigor, 3 boons stolen (stab is prioritized), gap closer, fury and swiftness to stay on target. > and if it was power thief I'd gladly let it kill itself on retal..... (sure not everyone has retal, but even opening with all these boonsdoes not guarantee thief to be even able to survive encounter - these things are paper as crap) > Every mantra gs mesmer build can open from stealth with a ranged instant disable that grants quickness to land their burst > I don't remember meeting these to be honest so won't comment in here.... > Every slb can open from stealth with hilt bash into quickness worldly impact, gl not being one shot. How about lb 4/2 from 1800 range with sic em? > and what exacly is the source of stealth for soulbeast there? because the only one that comes to my mind is longbow skill bu that one reuire it to firstly take a shot at you that would be fairly plain telegraph that something is incoming. (also last time I checked LB could only go up to 1500 range so I am unsure how the hell do you see it going up to 1800.....) > All three can open in stealth, there is 0 counterplay. Most players coming out of stealth take 1/4-1/2s to even render on your screen. and at least as far as sPvP is concerned there was a vid from WP where he was adressing "it's from stealth literaly no counterplay" argument.... (and mind you we are in pvp forum ;) ) in case you missed vid itself here's a link - I'd give a timestamp to the part where he rants about stealth bursts but I don't really have tme atmat hand to dig into vid itself..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RisenHowl.2419 Posted November 8, 2018 Share Posted November 8, 2018 > @"Lord Trejgon.2809" said: > > @"RisenHowl.2419" said: > > Every thief with trickery 3/1/2 has an instant disable on a 21s CD that steals stab, effectively making it a guarantee to get quickness, vigor, 3 boons stolen (stab is prioritized), gap closer, fury and swiftness to stay on target. > > > > and if it was power thief I'd gladly let it kill itself on retal..... (sure not everyone has retal, but even opening with all these boonsdoes not guarantee thief to be even able to survive encounter - these things are paper as kitten) > > > Every mantra gs mesmer build can open from stealth with a ranged instant disable that grants quickness to land their burst > > > I don't remember meeting these to be honest so won't comment in here.... > > > Every slb can open from stealth with hilt bash into quickness worldly impact, gl not being one shot. How about lb 4/2 from 1800 range with sic em? > > > and what exacly is the source of stealth for soulbeast there? because the only one that comes to my mind is longbow skill bu that one reuire it to firstly take a shot at you that would be fairly plain telegraph that something is incoming. (also last time I checked LB could only go up to 1500 range so I am unsure how the hell do you see it going up to 1800.....) > > > All three can open in stealth, there is 0 counterplay. Most players coming out of stealth take 1/4-1/2s to even render on your screen. > > and at least as far as sPvP is concerned there was a vid from WP where he was adressing "it's from stealth literaly no counterplay" argument.... (and mind you we are in pvp forum ;) ) > > in case you missed vid itself here's a link - I'd give a timestamp to the part where he rants about stealth bursts but I don't really have tme atmat hand to dig into vid itself..... First off, steal strip 3 boons so there's a good chance the thief would steal retal. Second, retal won't kill a thief that only has to hit you 4 times to kill you, with quickness, from stealth. Going to go ahead and assume you don't pvp much or haven't gotten out of silver yet judging by your lack of class knowledge. Gs mirage is very popular, as is stealth slb. Slb has access to smoke field through smokescale pet and plenty of blast finishers to stack stealth. LB range is affected by height, so if they're on a ledge above you its 1800 range. Here's a fun video of stealth opening on a class with 2.5k armor and 22k hp: Lots of counterplay there. Remember, this is a pvp forum so you should probably play pvp amd have an understanding of the meta if you want to comment ;D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Svez Poizon XD.5268 Posted November 8, 2018 Share Posted November 8, 2018 If you think deeper,they want players to pick more defensive stats and not just raw zerk stat gear because buffing damage means everyone gonna die faster without armor/vitality and other defensive things. So they want you to play more bunker builds with sustain. Problem that arenanet make is: when they buff something they don't balance other things(example:deadeye with perma stealth and not all classes got reveal spell that can counter it). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Trejgon.2809 Posted November 8, 2018 Share Posted November 8, 2018 > @"RisenHowl.2419" said: > > @"Lord Trejgon.2809" said: > > > @"RisenHowl.2419" said: > > > Every thief with trickery 3/1/2 has an instant disable on a 21s CD that steals stab, effectively making it a guarantee to get quickness, vigor, 3 boons stolen (stab is prioritized), gap closer, fury and swiftness to stay on target. > > > > > > > and if it was power thief I'd gladly let it kill itself on retal..... (sure not everyone has retal, but even opening with all these boonsdoes not guarantee thief to be even able to survive encounter - these things are paper as kitten) > > > > > Every mantra gs mesmer build can open from stealth with a ranged instant disable that grants quickness to land their burst > > > > > I don't remember meeting these to be honest so won't comment in here.... > > > > > Every slb can open from stealth with hilt bash into quickness worldly impact, gl not being one shot. How about lb 4/2 from 1800 range with sic em? > > > > > and what exacly is the source of stealth for soulbeast there? because the only one that comes to my mind is longbow skill bu that one reuire it to firstly take a shot at you that would be fairly plain telegraph that something is incoming. (also last time I checked LB could only go up to 1500 range so I am unsure how the hell do you see it going up to 1800.....) > > > > > All three can open in stealth, there is 0 counterplay. Most players coming out of stealth take 1/4-1/2s to even render on your screen. > > > > and at least as far as sPvP is concerned there was a vid from WP where he was adressing "it's from stealth literaly no counterplay" argument.... (and mind you we are in pvp forum ;) ) > > > > in case you missed vid itself here's a link - I'd give a timestamp to the part where he rants about stealth bursts but I don't really have tme atmat hand to dig into vid itself..... > > First off, steal strip 3 boons so there's a good chance the thief would steal retal. Not if Retal is applied after the steal (retaliatory subconcious ftw?) >Second, retal won't kill a thief that only has to hit you 4 times to kill you, with quickness, from stealth. > note that only first hit will be "from stealth" (even if we assume that your build against his build means he can do it in just 4 hits - most power thiefs required much more hits to down those of my builds that were not built as glass cannons - and I literally had power thiefs killing themselves on my guard's retal in the past) > Going to go ahead and assume you don't pvp much or haven't gotten out of silver yet judging by your lack of class knowledge. > HA jokes on you I don't play rankeds at all :D EDIT: for clarification: in past years my involvement into sPvP things was purely academical by talking with people who did it, observing people who did it and theorycrafting ontop of that - it's only fairly recently I actually started playing mode myself and since I am doing it on turbo casual mode with random fun build on character that was chosen to the task for all the "silly reasons" ;) and that remark about power thiefs killing themselves on retal is literally reference to one evening few years ago when we wanted to test out few things with a guildmate and I rolled randomly assembled guard build that I was rolling on for the most of time((basically WvW build that was doing fine in PvE) against his power thief and won all engagements untill he swapped to condi build where it ceased to be so bright and shiny for me - this happened like before HoT so considering powercreep and stuff you are free to take that reference with relevantly sized pinch of salt ;) ) > Gs mirage is very popular, as is stealth slb. GS mirage is one thing but GS MANTRA mirage is very specific build. Sure I see alot of mirages but considering range whole range of their effectiveness going from "borderline useless 1v1 free kill" to "omg god walking among noobs that carries his whole team" and adding to the mix I'm usually more concerned on having idea what *I* am doing I may not have exacly time to spend to look on what abilities that mirage is using ;) > Slb has access to smoke field through smokescale pet and plenty of blast finishers to stack stealth. LB range is affected by height, so if they're on a ledge above you its 1800 range. > fair nuff, forgot about that smokefield, and blasts were not something class was known for most.... > Here's a fun video of stealth opening on a class with 2.5k armor and 22k hp: > > > > Lots of counterplay there. Remember, this is a pvp forum so you should probably play pvp amd have an understanding of the meta if you want to comment ;D > for that vid I'll redirect you again to the rant included in a vid I posted in spoiler tags in my previous posts ;) ~~and I'll promtly ignore that frag grenade thrown at my direction after that vid link :P~~ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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