(Updated) Salvage Rates on Runes|Sigils (type of kit doesn't matter)

[Illconceived Was Na.9781]

##### Salvage Results for Runes & Sigils (choice of kit _does not_ matter)

[u/Rude Asura](https://old.reddit.com/user/rude_asura) just did a couple of thousand salvages -- copper- & silver-fed salvage produced same results.

Rephrasing above to avoid syntax confusion... estimated results from _directly salvaging_ **one hundred of each rarity**

* **Minors:** 1.9 charms/symbols & ~100 lucent motes

* **Majors:** 3.9 charms/symbols & ~200 lucent motes

* **Superiors:** 9.0 charms/symbols & ~310 lucent motes

 

##### Salvage Results from Masterwork Gear (choice of kit _does_ matter)

In addition, the poster also salvaged 1k rare weapons with a Silver-Fed and then 1k masterwork weapons with a Copper-Fed and another 1k with a Silver-Fed to produce these findings:

* The choice of kit **does not matter** when salvaging upgrades directly.

* The choice of kit **does matter** when salvaging gear: Silver-Fed produces more motes & symbols than Copper-Fed.

* Copper-fed used on 1k masterwork weapons produced 209 motes, 6 symbols

* Silver-fed used on 1k masterwork produced 796 motes, 12 symbols.

 

##### Summary

At current prices (at the time of writing) _if you salvage 1000s of pieces of gear_, then:

* It is well worth using a Silver-fed on masterwork gear with the type of runes/sigils that drop the more expensive potence charms|control symbols.

* It is a net loss using Silver-fed on green gear with the other types of runes/sigils.

* It is likely a big gain if at least a quarter of the runes/sigils are high value, but that very much depends on the mix of gear and we have no detailed data about the assortment we get from the primary sources (unID gear, Istan farm, Silverwastes farm, champ bags, etc).

 

##### Recommendation

* Use a copper-fed to salvage masterwork gear.

* Use a silver-fed only if (a) you stock pile 1000s of bags or purchase gear from the TP **and** you are willing to slow down the process to separate sigil-/rune-bearing masterwork gear from the rest (and especially if you want to take time to discriminate based on which rune/sigil).

 

And a caveat: the market is still in flux. What makes sense today, might not tomorrow and the calculus will almost certainly be different next month.

 

##### Sources

* https://old.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/9wrctg/psa_salvage_kit_rarity_doesnt_influence_salvage/

* https://old.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/9wrbgk/i_recycled_for_you_1000_minor_runes_of_the_flock/ (1000 minor runes → 2.2 charms)

* https://old.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/9wu4xx/i_salvaged_25000_runesigil_with_mystic_salvage/ (~22k minor runes → 423 charms, sort of... the data isn't very useful except to validate the numbers above)

* https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/492756208529440788/512015534229815297/unknown.png (Data from 1000 masterwork weapons salvaged: copper-fed results at top; silver-fed below)

* https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/492756208529440788/512363376416915472/unknown.png (Additional data from 1000 masterwork armor: copper-fed atop; silver-fed below.)

 

****

Update: @"Wanze.8410" confirmed the numbers above and provided additional data on salvaging gear.

[Ashantara.8731]

Thank you for updating your post.

[Illconceived Was Na.9781]

> @"Ashantara.8731" said:

> Okay, wow. That's a super low rate for all tiers.

 

Rates might be too _high_ to sustain much value in the long run. Prices are already dropping on charms, symbols, and especially on motes. There's way more runes & sigils out there than we imagine.

[Ashantara.8731]

Yes, but we will require a lot of those materials to craft new ones, should the meta change significantly. Only time will tell...

[Pifil.5193]

It's also worth noting that these are the rates on Runes and Sigils and not on equipment. Salvaging Masterwork, Rare and Exotic equipment may have a higher rate (hundreds of thousands of cheap Runes and Sigils were snapped up in the last few days).

[Illconceived Was Na.9781]

> @"Pifil.5193" said:

> It's also worth noting that these are the rates on Runes and Sigils and not on equipment. Salvaging Masterwork, Rare and Exotic equipment may have a higher rate (hundreds of thousands of cheap Runes and Sigils were snapped up in the last few days).

 

Right. It's unclear if the salvaging process "assumes" the same drop rate or also combines the old drop rate of upgrades falling from gear and then salvages the results. If the latter, then the choice of kit would matter, because the higher rarity kits had a better chance of dropping sigils & runes.

[Astralporing.1957]

> @"Pifil.5193" said:

> It's also worth noting that these are the rates on Runes and Sigils and not on equipment. Salvaging Masterwork, Rare and Exotic equipment may have a higher rate (hundreds of thousands of cheap Runes and Sigils were snapped up in the last few days).

if anything, it will be lower, as the rates of salvaging enhancements on non-bl kits aren't 100%, so you will run a chance of getting absolutely nothing on top of those low chances given above.

 

[perilisk.1874]

How bad would a superior rune or sigil have to be that you would salvage a couple hundred of them just to get a different superior rune or sigil?

[Muusic.2967]

> @"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said:

> > @"Ashantara.8731" said:

> > Okay, wow. That's a super low rate for all tiers.

>

> Rates might be too _high_ to sustain much value in the long run. Prices are already dropping on charms, symbols, and especially on motes.

 

Motes have actually been rising steadily, but i would expect that to change. What's most confusing is the change in the description of Black Lion Kits as my guildmates are telling me they aren't always returning the rune/sigil now.

 

 

[Rhea Ravenseeker.7105]

Just to clarify, the percentages expressed are as expressed? Point 19 of a percent, i.e. less than 2 in a thousand for minors? If this is the case, the figures would not be statistically significant over just a couple of thousand salvages surely.

[Justine.6351]

lol these drop rates... Friend and I went and did silverwastes till bags were full, salvaged all and nothing. I did it again and again nothing. Went and burnt thousands of dungeon tokens. Nothing. She salvaged 25 exotic helms and got 1 charm.

You have to use the trading post to craft anything new afaik right now. Self found? good luck.

 

It is true that if the rates were too high the market would get super saturated and tank prices. I suppose this falls into the realm of maintaining a meaningful market. I am just not sure sigils and runes were the right items to do it with as everyone sort of needs them. Whats going to happen to all those minor/major rune/sigil prices on the market though for new people? There wont be any new ones or maybe it wont matter overall?

[Illconceived Was Na.9781]

> @"perilisk.1874" said:

> How bad would a superior rune or sigil have to be that you would salvage a couple hundred of them just to get a different superior rune or sigil?

 

The common use would be:

* Before today's patch: over time, you end up with e.g. 200 superiors over months, out of which only 1-2 were valuable to you or on the TP. You vendor the rest.

* After today's patch: over time, you end up with lucent motes, charms, & symbols, all of which you can send to storage and decide later if you want to sell or use to create stuff you need/want

 

It's about turning vendor trash into usable materials.

 

(At least, that's the theory. Some of the recipes... it's not the charms or symbols, it's the other mats.)

[Randulf.7614]

These new materials are all vendorable right?

[Illconceived Was Na.9781]

> @"Randulf.7614" said:

> These new materials are all vendorable right?

 

Yes

[Randulf.7614]

> @"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said:

> > @"Randulf.7614" said:

> > These new materials are all vendorable right?

>

> Yes

 

Thank God.

 

[Illconceived Was Na.9781]

> @"Justine.6351" said:

> lol these drop rates... Friend and I went and did silverwastes till bags were full, salvaged all and nothing. I did it again and again nothing. Went and burnt thousands of dungeon tokens. Nothing. She salvaged 25 exotic helms and got 1 charm.

> You have to use the trading post to craft anything new afaik right now. Self found? good luck.

>

> It is true that if the rates were too high the market would get super saturated and tank prices. I suppose this falls into the realm of maintaining a meaningful market. I am just not sure sigils and runes were the right items to do it with as everyone sort of needs them. Whats going to happen to all those minor/major rune/sigil prices on the market though for new people? There wont be any new ones or maybe it wont matter overall?

 

It's not even 12 hours since the patch, so of course it's hard to see what the markets are going to do. Things will be in flux for a while, but eventually, the numbers will stabilize and we'll end up seeing the same thing we have now, except that instead of 98 worthless runes|sigils and two valuable ones, we'll probably have 80 modestly-priced upgrades and 20 over-priced ones.

 

The bigger consideration probably won't be the notes, charms, or symbols, but the other mats in the recipes. Fore example, one recipe calls for azurite orbs, which don't have a direct source and lack a mystic forge promotion option (unless they changed either/both today and forgot to include it in the patch notes).

[Eloc Freidon.5692]

If the kit doesn't matter, than there is no difference between the Salvage-o-matics?

[Illconceived Was Na.9781]

> @"Eloc Freidon.5692" said:

> If the kit doesn't matter, than there is no difference between the Salvage-o-matics?

 

Kit doesn't matter for directly salvaging sigils/runes. it might matter on the gear; we haven't seen stats on that yet.

(and obviously, silver-fed is much more expensive)

[DeShadowWolf.6854]

> @"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said:

> > @"Eloc Freidon.5692" said:

> > If the kit doesn't matter, than there is no difference between the Salvage-o-matics?

>

> Kit doesn't matter for directly salvaging sigils/runes. it might matter on the gear; we haven't seen stats on that yet.

> (and obviously, silver-fed is much more expensive)

 

I think that will be the more important data to most people though. With the changes, we will very rarely actually be salvaging runes/sigils directly. Almost all of the new mats will come from salvaged equipment.

[Wanze.8410]

> @"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said:

> > @"Pifil.5193" said:

> > It's also worth noting that these are the rates on Runes and Sigils and not on equipment. Salvaging Masterwork, Rare and Exotic equipment may have a higher rate (hundreds of thousands of cheap Runes and Sigils were snapped up in the last few days).

>

> Right. It's unclear if the salvaging process "assumes" the same drop rate or also combines the old drop rate of upgrades falling from gear and then salvages the results. If the latter, then the choice of kit would matter, because the higher rarity kits had a better chance of dropping sigils & runes.

 

sorry, my numbers seem to have been 1 digit off but i see you fixed it.

 

I did compare droprates between gear and upgrade components later on:

 

Salvaging 1k rare weapons (with silver fed) gave me 35 symbols (compared to 39 symbols from 1k sigils), so I am assuming the same droprate on those. Lucent motes i got a bit more from 1k rare sigils (2 per sigil) than from 1k rare weapons (1.47 per weapon).

 

If you salvage gear, the rarity of your salvage kit **does** matter (tested with 1k each green weapons):

With silver-fed SOM, i got double the amount of symbols and nearly 4 times the amount of lucent motes.

 

[Here](https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/492756208529440788/512015534229815297/unknown.png) are the salvage results, copper- fed in upper tab, silver-fed in lower tab.

 

 

[Wanze.8410]

> @"DeShadowWolf.6854" said:

> > @"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said:

> > > @"Eloc Freidon.5692" said:

> > > If the kit doesn't matter, than there is no difference between the Salvage-o-matics?

> >

> > Kit doesn't matter for directly salvaging sigils/runes. it might matter on the gear; we haven't seen stats on that yet.

> > (and obviously, silver-fed is much more expensive)

>

> I think that will be the more important data to most people though. With the changes, we will very rarely actually be salvaging runes/sigils directly. Almost all of the new mats will come from salvaged equipment.

 

Kit rarity does affect salvage results from gear quite significantly, see my other comment.

[Astralporing.1957]

> @"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said:

> > @"Justine.6351" said:

> > lol these drop rates... Friend and I went and did silverwastes till bags were full, salvaged all and nothing. I did it again and again nothing. Went and burnt thousands of dungeon tokens. Nothing. She salvaged 25 exotic helms and got 1 charm.

> > You have to use the trading post to craft anything new afaik right now. Self found? good luck.

> >

> > It is true that if the rates were too high the market would get super saturated and tank prices. I suppose this falls into the realm of maintaining a meaningful market. I am just not sure sigils and runes were the right items to do it with as everyone sort of needs them. Whats going to happen to all those minor/major rune/sigil prices on the market though for new people? There wont be any new ones or maybe it wont matter overall?

>

> It's not even 12 hours since the patch, so of course it's hard to see what the markets are going to do. Things will be in flux for a while, but eventually, the numbers will stabilize and we'll end up seeing the same thing we have now, except that instead of 98 worthless runes|sigils and two valuable ones, we'll probably have 80 modestly-priced upgrades and 20 over-priced ones.

At the current salvage rates we'd end up with few hundred lucents and no charms or symbols at all (and you need several of those per new sigil/rune). From my experience so far, the rates of gathering a mat set for a craftable useful rune will be lower than the rates of obtaining useful runes previously. Probably much lower.

 

[Illconceived Was Na.9781]

> @"Astralporing.1957" said:

> the rates of gathering a mat set for a craftable useful rune will be lower than the rates of obtaining useful runes previously. Probably much lower.

It's crowd-sourced now. There will always be plenty of symbols, charms, & notes on the TP for those who want to buy, because lots of people who don't want them will sell.

 

So previously, we had to depend on getting lucky to get the rune|sigil we wanted or pay dearly to someone else to be lucky. Now, the base costs for sigils & runes is going to be spread out. So we'll see nearly all upgrades maintain some value, well above vendor and almost no upgrades hitting peak prices that are 100-500 times greater than that, as we had in the past.

 

 

 

 

[Illconceived Was Na.9781]

> @"Wanze.8410" said:

> sorry, my numbers seem to have been 1 digit off but i see you fixed it.

At first, I thought it was confusion (on my part) with EU vs US symbols. Then I stopped worrying about it and used other people's results to ensure I posted the right baseline.

 

>

> I did compare droprates between gear and upgrade components later on:

This is great -- thanks for doing that, too.

 

>

> Salvaging 1k rare weapons (with silver fed) gave me 35 symbols (compared to 39 symbols from 1k sigils), so I am assuming the same droprate on those. Lucent motes i got a bit more from 1k rare sigils (2 per sigil) than from 1k rare weapons (1.47 per weapon).

>

> If you salvage gear, the rarity of your salvage kit **does** matter (tested with 1k each green weapons):

> With silver-fed SOM, i got double the amount of symbols and nearly 4 times the amount of lucent motes.

 

To summarize (and I'll update the top post with this):

* Choice of kit doesn't matter for salvaging runes or sigils directly.

* Choice of kit does matter when salvaging gear directly (speculation: because there's a greater chance of having 'found' the upgrade to salvage).

* Silver-fed generates roughly equal amounts of symbols (3.5%) from gear as it does from sigils directly (3.9%).

* Silver-fed generates fewer motes from gear (1.5/weapon) than from sigils directly (2/sigil). However, that's consistent with silver-fed not always producing a sigil, pre-patch.

 

 

>

> [Here](https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/492756208529440788/512015534229815297/unknown.png) are the salvage results, copper- fed in upper tab, silver-fed in lower tab.

Stellar. I appreciate you adding the detailed results; numbers-oriented people like being able to fiddle around to confirm.

[eldrjth.7384]

So if we get lucent mote at a rate of x4 as someone stated earlier from using Silver fed instead of copper for salvaging gear wouldnt it mean it would always better to use silver fed for gear salvaging now? since the price of 1 lucent mote is close to the cost of using the silver fed 1 time.