Would you want to see Condi Reaper a viable choice in PvP/WvW?

[EremiteAngel.9765]

When it comes to solo roaming in WvW, I recall a period that lasted about 8 months before Scourge and POF was introduced where I was happy.

 

It was when Reaper shroud was traited 7 seconds CD and had a fitting GM trait that gave 3 bleeds on chill allowing for Reaper to be viable on condi builds as well in WvW.

 

I dislike that they took away the synergy and flexibility of the SoS 7 seconds cd trait and pigeonholed Reaper into a power only viability build with its shroud defense gutted in the name of more offensive power while forgetting all about the condi aspect.

 

Why can't we have an equally viable condi build on Reaper? A grandmaster trait that gives 1 tick of bleed on chill...it is so sad and depressing.

 

Other elite specs have viable condi and power options. Please give our Reaper back the condi option too.

 

The shroud degen rate was nerfed because power damage was hugely boosted. Which is silly imo because our defence isn't fantastic to begin with.

 

But since it has happened, please don't forget the condi users and revert the nerfs to the original 3 bleeds on chill GM trait. Condi Reaper needs a boost desperately.

 

Now I just sulk on my core condi necro (which thankfully, is still viable) and watch the world go round.

 

I still hope though to go back to playing a condi Reaper that is made viable and not gutted by the SoS nerf, the Shroud degen nerf and the Deathly chill nerf.

[KrHome.1920]

3 bleeds was overpowered (see build below! 20+ bleeds applied in 1 second). 1 bleed was underpowered before RS got the immense damage buffs.

 

I did not test yet whether a dire condi reaper like that:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vRAQJAWRnMbClbitbCWbC0biFcBD6qFAOARbg81HIuKuFHjA-j1hHQBIU53iU/RAPBAAcJAW3+DtRXAGVCGA4AY8xT8xDM+4jP+4j33jP+4jP+4jP+4jHA-w

(alternative gear: carrion - might even work better!)

 

could be viable now as it deals more hybrid damage than before in shroud. Maybe I will test it someday.

[Nimon.7840]

> @"KrHome.1920" said:

> 3 bleeds was overpowered (see build below! 20+ bleeds applied in 1 second). 1 bleed was underpowered before RS got the immense damage buffs.

>

> I did not test yet whether a dire condi reaper like that:

> http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vRAQJAWRnMbClbitbCWbC0biFcBD6qFAOARbg81HIuKuFHjA-j1hHQBIU53iU/RAPBAAcJAW3+DtRXAGVCGA4AY8xT8xDM+4jP+4j33jP+4jP+4jP+4jHA-w

> (alternative gear: carrion - might even work better!)

>

> could be viable now as it deals more hybrid damage than before in shroud. Maybe I will test it someday.

 

I tested something similar.

You have to fight against warriors, mesmers, rangers, thiefes, guards. That are the common roaming classes. And hybrid reaper just doesn't do enough dmg. The burst is bad, and the sustain as well.

 

Just not worth taking.

That's at least my experience before the most recent patch

[lodjur.1284]

> @"EremiteAngel.9765" said:

> When it comes to solo roaming in WvW, I recall a period that lasted about 8 months before Scourge and POF was introduced where I was happy.

>

> It was when Reaper shroud was traited 7 seconds CD and had a fitting GM trait that gave 3 bleeds on chill allowing for Reaper to be viable on condi builds as well in WvW.

>

> I dislike that they took away the synergy and flexibility of the SoS 7 seconds cd trait and pigeonholed Reaper into a power only viability build with its shroud defense gutted in the name of more offensive power while forgetting all about the condi aspect.

>

> Why can't we have an equally viable condi build on Reaper? A grandmaster trait that gives 1 tick of bleed on chill...it is so sad and depressing.

>

> Other elite specs have viable condi and power options. Please give our Reaper back the condi option too.

>

> The shroud degen rate was nerfed because power damage was hugely boosted. Which is silly imo because our defence isn't fantastic to begin with.

>

> But since it has happened, please don't forget the condi users and revert the nerfs to the original 3 bleeds on chill GM trait. Condi Reaper needs a boost desperately.

>

> Now I just sulk on my core condi necro (which thankfully, is still viable) and watch the world go round.

>

> I still hope though to go back to playing a condi Reaper that is made viable and not gutted by the SoS nerf, the Shroud degen nerf and the Deathly chill nerf.

 

Won't happen though. Anet even nerfed the condi application of soul spiral too in their reaper overhaul, Necro does not get changes that are positive. Deathly chill should have been left working the way it did way back where chill did damage. Rune of the reaper interaction with buffed deathly chill is what most people whined about. SoS was changed because of how it would interact with Desert Shroud, which is a fairly dumb reason (could just have made them not interact at all or w/e).

[EremiteAngel.9765]

> @"KrHome.1920" said:

> 3 bleeds was overpowered (see build below! 20+ bleeds applied in 1 second). 1 bleed was underpowered before RS got the immense damage buffs.

>

> I did not test yet whether a dire condi reaper like that:

> http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vRAQJAWRnMbClbitbCWbC0biFcBD6qFAOARbg81HIuKuFHjA-j1hHQBIU53iU/RAPBAAcJAW3+DtRXAGVCGA4AY8xT8xDM+4jP+4j33jP+4jP+4jP+4jHA-w

> (alternative gear: carrion - might even work better!)

>

> could be viable now as it deals more hybrid damage than before in shroud. Maybe I will test it someday.

 

I think I can agree that 3 bleeds was high, maybe 2 would have been more reasonable. Although as of now shroud degens at an alarming rate so perhaps 3 bleeds would better reflect the needed damage boost on condi that was given to power.

 

Sadly condi Mirage are spewing out a lot more condis than we ever could on a 3 bleed tick chill and they are still going at it while we've been nerfed =[

[Aktium.9506]

I would like it if they just made it so Core Necro was the strongest condi spec, Reaper the strongest Power spec and Scourge the strongest Support spec.

[Nimon.7840]

> @"Aktium.9506" said:

> I would like it if they just made it so Core Necro was the strongest condi spec, Reaper the strongest Power spec and Scourge the strongest Support spec.

 

Problem is, that's mostly not how the game works. Because even if you play elite-spec, you still have two core traitline to choose

[Aktium.9506]

> @"Nimon.7840" said:

> > @"Aktium.9506" said:

> > I would like it if they just made it so Core Necro was the strongest condi spec, Reaper the strongest Power spec and Scourge the strongest Support spec.

>

> Problem is, that's mostly not how the game works. Because even if you play elite-spec, you still have two core traitline to choose

They don't have to increase the condi damage on core specs via traits. They could do it by changing skills and effects in Death Shroud itself.

[EremiteAngel.9765]

> @"Aktium.9506" said:

> I would like it if they just made it so Core Necro was the strongest condi spec, Reaper the strongest Power spec and Scourge the strongest Support spec.

 

But isn't it more fun to have viable options for both condi/power/hybrid on all specs D=

 

More builds to play with and more theory crafting.

 

Apart from fun, it also makes opponents have to be more alert on what type of damage you are instead of A Reaper? Okay this guy is power.

 

I tried roaming/dueling on a condi Reaper yesterday and it took many of my opponents by surprise lol...

 

Will post a video later showing their shocked looks when they found out I was condi XD

[Aktium.9506]

> @"EremiteAngel.9765" said:

> But isn't it more fun to have viable options for both condi/power/hybrid on all specs D=

no

[Lily.1935]

As long as it's not better than scourge I don't care.

[EremiteAngel.9765]

> @"Lily.1935" said:

> As long as it's not better than scourge I don't care.

 

Personally I see them holding separate roles.

They could both have efficient condi builds, but would ultimately be better at performing different tasks.

Scourge is still more a group support fighter while Reaper would be a more mobile dueler.

[Dadnir.5038]

At this point I don't really care. I mean with how the game balance is butchered with each patch I don't have really any hope of thing going well with whatever request we can come as players.

 

Now, sure, in an ideal world, I'd love to see specializations that are not shackled by a specific kind of damage but since their are tons of players out there that prefer specialization to be very specialized and it's easier for other professions to prepare themself to counter a profession based on it's "look". I mean would the game be balanced if a profession that's perceived as power based were to treacherously use condition damage instead? I'm sure players would ask for nerfs if something so awful were to happen.

[Dace.8173]

> @"Dadnir.5038" said:

> At this point I don't really care. I mean with how the game balance is butchered with each patch I don't have really any hope of thing going well with whatever request we can come as players.

>

> Now, sure, in an ideal world, I'd love to see specializations that are not shackled by a specific kind of damage but since their are tons of players out there that prefer specialization to be very specialized and it's easier for other professions to prepare themself to counter a profession based on it's "look". I mean would the game be balanced if a profession that's perceived as power based were to treacherously use condition damage instead? I'm sure players would ask for nerfs if something so awful were to happen.

 

Some Elites can do both. I recall Daredevil being capable of both power and condi builds at one point. I'm pretty sure Choronmancer and Mirage can do both. I think the ability for an Elite to do both is more about how good the core is than the Elite itself. The Elite just has that one specialization line. You could, in theory, use the other two specs to do either condi or power, assuming the core can sufficiently support both already.

[Aplethoraof.2643]

I don't think each spec should be restricted to one role. You can select 9 possible traits. Each of these traits should pave the way to a different possible role.

 

Power Reaper and Condi Reaper should be able to exist at once, depending on your build.

Power Core and Condi Core should be able to exist at once, depending on your build.

Support Scourge or Condi Scourge should be able to exist at once, depending on your build. Heck, even power scourge exists now, in addition to those other two builds.

 

The spec should provide a different way of playing. How the player decides to build, what their damage source is should be entirely up to what they choose to specialize in.

 

Condi Reaper could be just fine if they un-nerfed Deathly Chill. That is all that is required for that, I think.

[Axl.8924]

> @"EremiteAngel.9765" said:

> > @"Lily.1935" said:

> > As long as it's not better than scourge I don't care.

>

> Personally I see them holding separate roles.

> They could both have efficient condi builds, but would ultimately be better at performing different tasks.

> Scourge is still more a group support fighter while Reaper would be a more mobile dueler.

 

How about a necro spec that isn't shackled to boon corrupts? I know boon corrupt is something, but if we had a spec without boon corrupts, maybe we could be balanced more easily.

 

It would be nice to have a spec not shackled to boon corrupts, and be able to be balanced in a way that we aren't excluded from raids no more.

[Anchoku.8142]

Is condi-Reaper improved with the recent rune and sigil changes?

 

Edit:

Also, condi-Reaper will always be a hybrid of power and condi. Neglecting the dps contribution from power and the soft CC of chill is a mistake. Building solely to max bleed dps could result in poor performance.

[DuckDuckBOOM.4097]

> @"EremiteAngel.9765" said:

> > @"KrHome.1920" said:

> > 3 bleeds was overpowered (see build below! 20+ bleeds applied in 1 second). 1 bleed was underpowered before RS got the immense damage buffs.

> >

> > I did not test yet whether a dire condi reaper like that:

> > http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vRAQJAWRnMbClbitbCWbC0biFcBD6qFAOARbg81HIuKuFHjA-j1hHQBIU53iU/RAPBAAcJAW3+DtRXAGVCGA4AY8xT8xDM+4jP+4j33jP+4jP+4jP+4jHA-w

> > (alternative gear: carrion - might even work better!)

> >

> > could be viable now as it deals more hybrid damage than before in shroud. Maybe I will test it someday.

>

> I think I can agree that 3 bleeds was high, maybe 2 would have been more reasonable. Although as of now shroud degens at an alarming rate so perhaps 3 bleeds would better reflect the needed damage boost on condi that was given to power.

>

> Sadly condi Mirage are spewing out a lot more condis than we ever could on a 3 bleed tick chill and they are still going at it while we've been nerfed =[

 

I'm not sure that 3 bleed on chill was a problem unless Rune of the reaper was used.

 

Instant cast shouts combined with spiteful spirit, hydromancy crit and geomancy sigil all proccing on a single instant cast button press was some hard hitting hybrid damage. SS power is nerfed in pvp/wvw by 50%. Geomancy just got nerfed. So part of this combo isn't as bad now. Personally, I think Rune of the reaper should be changed to vulnerability on shout with power/toughness or 1x bleed (600 radius instead of the 300) on shout with condi damage. The flavor of offensively buffing the shout is still there without making all shouts apply at least 3 conditions for spite/reaper.

 

If those changes went through, I think chill applies 3 bleed in pve/2 bleed in wvw/pvp wouldn't be OP. PvP doesn't need to worry about hydro/geo. WvW.... just kite the reaper either way and avoid the melee flash burst which will still be weaker than before. Power reaper doesn't get touched. If people pay attention to if you have quickness or not in shroud, it's immediately apparent if it's a condi or power reaper. Well that or just looking at the scepter stacking bleeds on you.

[Flumek.9043]

a) 7s shroud .... was flexible, bring it back

b) 3x bleeds .... was stupid overpowered outside PVE, dont bring it into anything pvp related

[unbornchikken.5104]

I run condi (more like hybrid) reaper for a while in every game modes. My build is already viable, and just got better after the patch. It's fun to see ppl laughing at you when a pvp match starts, and outclassing them in kills, revives, offense and defense on the end.

[Elbritil.3817]

I think the old idea what we crafted with some friends would bring interesting (and fun) changes to the game.

1.: I think an elite spec should accurately defined role(all classes, necro is just an example now): Preaper:Full power, Scourge: full condi (its name doesnt fit for support for me), next elite spec: Full support (banshee/vampire lord/little killer rabid/anything). Elite spec should modifie/enhance the flexible options of the base classes.

2.: As we saw the builds in the last years, we realized that many spec doesnt use its own "traitline skills". Maybe it restricts some options, but would define the spec more directly in stile by making the core trait line work like elite speces ( Example: U can use spectral skills and Staff if Soul reaping equipped, no if isnt, If u want minions, u need death magic etc.) It sounds a bit harsh, i know, but that would make the roles more unique, not every reaper would run with Consume Condition, only Curse necros speced to wave around condies. Maybe this holds back the Necro/Reaper/scourge, but would ease up the balancing of other classes, bringing down some of the "demigod-Tier0-mandatoryMETA" classes to the realm of mortals.

3.: REWORK STAFF PLS!

 

In case of Reaper: The style is the monstrosity that slash u in half if it gets you unprepared. Deathly Chill was fun in the original form, but I accept: it was hella OP. With power orientation it could be reworked to 2 options:

A: Aplying Chill to enemy gives the Reaper 1 Stack of Deathly Chill mark, stack up, 5 times(1 sec ocd). With 5 stack the next chill aplication detonates stacks and casts a lesser Executioner's Scythe (RS5) (20 sec. cd apter triger to stack Deathly Chill again)

B: Bring back the first version, only make it scale with power instead of condi dmg (like guardian has modification to retal scaling)