Rune of Sanctuary & Abrasive Grit

[DragonFury.6243]

> @"Irenio CalmonHuang.2048" said:

so you decided to destroy the only support elite for necro just for newly changed untested rune set

did you know that Abrasive Grit is support scourge main source of condi cleanse and might generation and you put it on 5 icd

ofc you dont. you dont test anything and dont know how necro mechanic work 5 sec after seeing the rune i knew it was broken

i am sick of this lame excuses to nerf pve scourge

from pvp and wvw

0.5 delay on all shroud skills in pve

icd on dhuumfire in pve

one condi conversion from Nefarious Favor in pve

Path of Corruption only convert 1 boon on enemy in pve

i knew this balance patch was missing something

yea a nerf to necro

ps: the only profession that got a nerf in this balance patch was necro

keep up the good work locking forward for next nerf patch

[The Bassist.5410]

> @"Blocki.4931" said:

> > @"The Bassist.5410" said:

> > You know, Rune of Sanctuary could've been change back to the way it was.

>

> Nerf it for 8 other classes because 1 is super abusing it. No.

 

I had no intention of ever using the rune itself, and now I no longer use Abrasive Grit as well. My issue with the 'update' has been resolved.

Still, I suspect that ArenaNet's problems with the Rune of Sanctuary and possibly others has only just begun. Should be an amusing development.

[Jski.6180]

I am sure this has been suggested before but why not make it a big aoe barrier on heal skill or elite. 20% healing to barrier is unbelievably strong as a GM for any class to have it on a rune set is going too far for a bunker meta.

 

Most runes where def aimed it seems this update made bunker runes stronger then most GM combined with other GM but the attk or skilled aimed runes where effectually nerfed. You have over buffed rune of sanctuary and are trying to balance it by making a classes weaker (all though scorge over all needs to be nerfed for its dmg out put NOT its support out put). Its just wrong and how anet dose every thing when it comes to balancing destroying the old for there new toys.

 

I just dont want anet dev to feel bad i want them to put realty though into there balancing but words are not enofe to get them to do any thing.

 

I want Anet to prove they are realy thinking about things and go though each rune they updated and say why give us your logic behind each rune set buff and nerf.

[Dadnir.5038]

> @"Blocki.4931" said:

> > @"The Bassist.5410" said:

> > You know, Rune of Sanctuary could've been change back to the way it was.

>

> Nerf it for 8 other classes because 1 is super abusing it. No.

 

So for 8 professions, gaining aegis and stab instead that protect you both efficiently against CC is a nerf over gaining small amount of barrier. Nice logic.

 

What will happen next if a runeset will grant reliably a random aura when you perform an easy action? Will they put an ICD on all elementalist's aura trait instead of putting an ICD on the runeset?

 

Weaver get an interesting amount of evade which somehow end up giving him sh*tload of condi cleanse, regen and more thanks to a rune, will they put an ICD on the trait that condi cleanse instead of the runeset to thoroughly make sure that the elementalist can't come out of it's grave?

 

Let's take a look at _Might make right_ which heal the warrior and grant him endurance with no ICD whenever he gain might (which he is quite good at generating) why didn't this trait gained an ugly 5s ICD instead of having it's endurance value per might reduced? No, worst than that, why do _forcefull greatsword_ still don't have an ICD on it's might generation?

 

Let's imagine a runeset that grant endurance whenever you gain might (which is pretty close to MMR, so a pretty decent idea), would ANet finally slap an ICD on all dodge traits?

 

The necromancer is loaded with traits that proc a condition when a specific condition is inflicted to a foe, shouldn't they slap an ICD on these to?

 

If one day they decide to put in game a runeset that grant endurance every time you are healed and half an hour later people realise that they get huge endurance gen, will they just remove the passive endurance gen in combat for the necromancer alone because somehow or another now he can dodge hits instead of nerfing the runeset?

[Dand.8231]

This is a great explanation. Reasonable and communicative. Thank you.

 

However, regarding Sanctuary runes:

The barrier currently **does not work** with most heal-over-time sources, such as the Regeneration Boon, Warrior Healing Signet, Health-over-time food (mango pies), etc.

The barrier **does work** with a few other heal-over-time sources, such as Rangers Troll Ungent, and supposedly (I havent tested this) rezzing downed players.

 

What does and does not work with the Sanctuary Rune barrier, is not indicated anywhere. It's inconsistent and confusing.

Are there plans to fix or clarify?

[Shagaliscious.6281]

> @"Irenio CalmonHuang.2048" said:

> you’ll have control over when that ICD is triggered because it is based on barriers you grant.

>

> Thanks for reading,

> ~Irenio

 

With that said, barriers from sanctuary runes aren't really granted by yourself, but by someone healing you. Was it too difficult to code it so barriers from the rune didn't proc abrasive grit?

 

And on a similar topic, anyone know if the barrier you get from a scrapper rez triggers abrasive grit? Better nerf that too then.

[Deax.1572]

The change is fine, just split it for WvW/PvP/PvE, the ICD could be lower for PvE

[zealex.9410]

Thanks for giving an insight on your thought process with this change, really interesting. I have to ask tho, dont you think something akin to a public test server would be very valueable in combating such "OMGWTF OP" situations from occuring? I dont expect you to test everything inhouse but theres ppl in the community that will do that for you given the mean to do so.

[Drarnor Kunoram.5180]

@"Irenio CalmonHuang.2048" Perhaps it would be best to rework Rune of Sanctuary to give a fixed size Barrier with an ICD when healed? That way, it doesn't matter if it's an incidental heal from a dodge-rolling Ele or a Signet of Courage from a Firebrand, removing your concern of it not playing well with multiple heals messing things up. Then you can remove the ICD on Abrasive Grit without an issue because the rune now holds the ICD.

[sanctum.5437]

I’d really just like to cut through the smoke screen and get a serious, accurate answer to how long your going to take to revert this damage (and possibly the rest of the nerfage you’ve done to necros this past year or so) ?

 

Do you even really intend to?

[reapex.8546]

> @"sanctum.5437" said:

> revert this damage (and possibly the rest of the nerfage you’ve done to necros this past year or so) ?

 

Power Reaper is great, I don't want it nerf again xD

[Draco.9480]

so you're saying. in group scenarios you want to avoid this. but in pve, pvp and wvw it won't matter at all cuz no one relies on barriers.

so what you did is make only scourge support players angry who now can't maintaining 25 might anymore. all heal scourge do are now barriers, heals and some cc. that's it. they don't have spirits, they can't might like druid who might and heal all the time without any ICD. do you understand how it works? what's the difference if barrier mights all the time or heal mights all the time? difference is barrier is limited time and doesn't actually heal. while druid heals and might at the same time and sustains 25 might all the time.

you didn't fix the rune problem at all. all you did is ruin support scourge build completely. the longer duration and amount of stacks increased isn't even justified and not enough for that. you guys made this rune to be broken without thinking and bash support scourge for that. while others exploit it and the rune is still broken. you shouldn't make such effects in the game in the first place. you just made necro players angry for no reason. i don't play heal scourge cuz i don't like playing support but it makes me angry that you devalue necros so much all the time. first it was infinite minions that tick 40k bleeds at the start of HoT expansion. then it was unintended all shades attacking the same target. then it was epidemic. and now this.

you should pause and think twice before making such ridiculous rune or any type of effect and go through all the specs and classes and think how it'll interact and think about all the possible builds people use.

[sniperman.1738]

Arenanet, seriously you guys should think about undoing the trait nerf and just nerfing the rune set as necessary it would make more sense rather than crippling the class's fundamental purpose in PvE and other group content. Seriously just change the Barrier Stat on the runeset to a lower value or just idk remove the whole idea of x heal gains you a barrier type thing an change it to x heal creates HoT for 10's or something like that, but there is no real need to nerf a trait when a runeset can be changed.

[sniperman.1738]

and what I mean is change it from 10% barrier to x heal will trigger 10% of healing power to HoT every 5 seconds, and yes its that simple of a fix without having to nerf a classes trait...

[Sansar.1302]

The rune have a fun mechanic and on most builds a nice ballance, the problem is where it is not.

and killing of specs too keep this rune set in game is questionable in my opinion.

[XECOR.2814]

I appreciate the communication but unfortunately i dont agree with it. The result is what matters. And the result was that your new concept runes were given more priority than possible viablity of a build of necromancer. Im not even mad because these things keep happening to this class. Idc if others think necromancers cry all the time because they dont care to see how many nerfs have made this class clunky as hell. There is no qol for necromancers only nerfs and in the best case tradeoffs. Good thing i can keep my 25stack of might while losing possible burst condi cleanse option on the only support build. I hope one day they realise they are destroying this class by putting icd on so many traits every patch.

 

And there will be no change in future i know it. They never revert their changes because that is equivalent of accepting their mistakes. Well i didnt use that trait before because it was underpowered in anywhere except pve clutch cleanse on niche support build and now i cant because its trash everywhere baseline. Slowly scourge traitline will be like death magic. Yeah we have a traitline called death magic.

[Kovu.7560]

With the change to that rune any feature that grants benefits every time barrier is granted would have _required_ an ICD. Necros just happened to be the profession with that trait. With the rune its still basically a condition peel every 5 seconds with no thought as an adept trait. Problem is, with so many tools to activate the trait once its off cooldown via small amounts of heal stealing, it'll be difficult to reliably time it to use the cleanse on allies.

 

I wish they would've chosen this road of trait ICDs for Druidic Clarity and Celestial Shadow instead of continually nerfing the availability and potency of Celestial Avatar into obscurity in an attempt to combat those traits.

 

~ Kovu

[santso.9201]

They should rename The game to rune wars2

[Menzo.2185]

Do you test the things you want to change in the game before launch them?

Why the way to solve a clear error in the rune is change a trait and not the rune that was supposedly tested and restructured?

Please! Do not launch that kind of thing without actually testing them and along with a new PvP Season or this game will actually die.

[sephiroth.4217]

I knew deep down the change you made was logical, tried to explain that in another thread and copped a lot of hate for it... Good to know things will be kept an eye on.

[caias.5346]

I'm still considering deleting my necro of 6 years and all gear attached to it.

 

The explanation, while it's welcomed, is just showcasing the inner working of anet balance team and how little they know about the game at large. The rune is a selfish rune and when used in certain situations it's strong, not arguing that, but I can't follow when you destroy a support trait that is designed to benefit others based on a selfish rune.

everything about the numbers here seems arbitrary, up might stack and duration but reduce application to a time gate so no matter what you do you'll never apply as much as before.

 

I've played the game since bw2, did the 3-day headstart. I've played gw1 for years of my life and each passing year anet balance team degrades more and more away from what balance is. I don't think there's any redemption left for anet. Every time I'm burned and come back to the game it happens again and again. But it goes back to what I said at the start. I deleting my characters and account and walking away.

 

I loved this game, this world, but you've burned that down for the last time.

[EremiteAngel.9765]

How about the new condi immunity build that weaver has going on their forums with the runes of evasion? Will they get the same look at as Scourge was?

[ZapZebra.8714]

Why isn't the barrier granted by healing from things like Warrior adrenal health, dolyak signet, and most importantly defiant stance? It was pretty disappointing to find out how few effects actually proc the barrier.

[thrag.9740]

> @"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said:

> > @"thrag.9740" said:

> > I know this is off topic, but literally every time I read this statement, or see an old video of a dev making the same statement I think about social awkwardness in fractals.

> Which is why they announced plans to change it ages ago (along with adding a bunch of new instabilities, many of which will offer a tradeoff of good|bad).

>

>

 

Yeah I know they did, the keyphase is, 'ages ago'. Multiple updates ago. This game is what? 6 years old and we have had to deal with this stupid mechanic which goes against the very heart of the game for nearly half the games life.

[Illconceived Was Na.9781]

> @"thrag.9740" said:

> > @"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said:

> > > @"thrag.9740" said:

> > > I know this is off topic, but literally every time I read this statement, or see an old video of a dev making the same statement I think about social awkwardness in fractals.

> > Which is why they announced plans to change it ages ago (along with adding a bunch of new instabilities, many of which will offer a tradeoff of good|bad).

> >

> >

>

> Yeah I know they did, the keyphase is, 'ages ago'. Multiple updates ago. This game is what? 6 years old and we have had to deal with this stupid mechanic which goes against the very heart of the game for nearly half the games life.

First, instabilities weren't released until October 2015 (for that matter, fractals weren't introduced until November 2012). It was changed a couple of times since then to be less, erm, agonizing.

 

Regardless, the dev who said there were plans to change it has always been upfront with us, has always come through (by announcing delays, changes in plans, or plans to scrap, or of course actual implementation). Regardless of how long ago it was mentioned, the point is that the devs are dealing with it. I'm not sure what else we can reasonably expect of them.