The new marked debuff is only targeted towards thiefs and a bit too much

[anduriell.6280]

Good neat balance! Now can this effect also available to some professions so you don't need to spend silver to be able to compete?

[Jski.6180]

> @"Curennos.9307" said:

> > @"Jski.6180" said:

> > > @"Klypto.1703" said:

> > > > @"Jski.6180" said:

> > > > > @"MUDse.7623" said:

> > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said:

> > > > > > Well thfs are using stealth as a means of sustate not as a means of attk. That a real problem and the only real counter is revieals that stick.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Thf's hp should come at a high cost when it is lost your not a mages who use magic to heal them self your a thf whom must move though the knifes and spears to land big hits and get out if you mess up then you mess up and pay for it. Gw2 is way too forgiving for bad thfs.

> > > > >

> > > > > your wrong. depending on build you also wont deal damage without stealth.

> > > > > > @"Hitman.5829" said:

> > > > > > Correct me if I am wrong, but the marked system reveals the thief AFTER 2 seconds in stealth and only if you have the "marked" debuff.

> > > > > > The thief now only spends 1 second less in stealth. Are people really complaining that they cannot spend 1 second more in stealth around sentries or watchtowers?

> > > > > >

> > > > > > What has this game become?

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > if it doesnt make a difference, why add it to begin with?

> > > >

> > > > Well ya that true but if your stealthing to clear condis or to heal or even to cover such skill your miss using stealth as a tool your effectually making stealth a broken effect a kin to invariability.

> > > >

> > >

> > > Oh please its not abusing stealth the problem is bad players that don't utilize the tools they are given so once you drown anet in tears you get what you want a passive way to get a thief or anything using stealth killed without having any skill at all. As well nothing is forgiving when it comes to thief one hit can kill a thief its the funny part about the complainers is they never ever ever talk about the handicap from low vitality and the related squishyness that no amount of toughness will ever bring sustain too. As long as thieves can't fight back that is what balance is to these kinds of players. So whenever this happens you'll just end up losing players not the ability to win fights because we aren't going to play a game where its completely rigged against us.

> >

> > Stealth should be an get in tool not an get out tool and thf hp should be very valuable not rubber baning. Thf not the squishes class in the game though and its a high counter stun class. Your a tank or a dmg dealer you should not be able to do both.

>

> Everything you just said is either wrong or contradictory.

>

> 'Stealth should be...' according to...you? Why? What makes what you think stealth SHOULD be better than any other option.

>

> Second, I haven't the faintest idea what you said next....'thef not the squishes class in the game though'? Eh? Please rephrase and elaborate.

>

> Lastly, if you want to get into the whole purity of purpose/role argument, then you're gonna have to nerf the heck out of pretty much every class except thief (which insofar as I've been able to gather, one of the only classes in the game to never have anything more than a single role in most/almost all gamemods. Compared to, say, holo, that can deal out high damage - single target or aoe, great blocks, sustain, etc.)

 

Stealth is an trick if vision and nothing more to tie heals and clears to it makes it into a invulnerability.

[Strider Pj.2193]

I wonder when the first: ‘thief is overpowered I got one shot by a thief omgbbq’ thread pops up again.

 

And all the thief’s that aren’t stressed over the change will again say:LTP.

 

Like watchtower, this will become a crutch. Careful what you ask for.

[InvaGir.9158]

> @"Wolfswift.2657" said:

> I play core thief Dagger/Dagger and played it for 3.5k hours. it already is off-meta because elite specs are stronger. With this weapon set your main source of damage is through backstab. I have to work for my stealth by actually landing a Cloak and Dagger which can be dodged, evaded, blocked etc. Fine I like to play this way and it gives me high reward. I just ragequit from WvW because I can no longer play my class due to this Detected debuff. Enemy tower which I tried to take had this marked upgrade so every cloak and dagger/backstab combo needs to hit <2 seconds or my damage source gets taken away for 5 seconds. IF I miss my backstab because of a dodge/blind/block etc. my damage source is nullified and I will be useless for 5 seconds again. My only true joy in this game got nerfed again and I think if this is not rolled back I will have to say goodbye to guildwars 2 after 6 years of playing.

>

> I wish the balance team would look into the elite specs or possibly be nicer to core specs. I mean why do we have +40% endurance regen food which enables deadeyes to perma-stealth.

 

No don't speak generally!

I get little stealth just as much as you, even if I could abuse it and get permastealth I wouldn't.

I'm satisfied with what I get....

Deadeyes are to blame here not Daredevils.

 

We share the same pain.

[Klypto.1703]

The funny thing is these people talking about abusing stealth and endurance food and all that crap. They do not realize that just dodging with rifle does not perma stealth the deadeye. That is why players are still using the d/p with the rifle because there is a gap in stealth timing with just dodging. So you go crying to where its no use at all and in most cases the stealth is our disengage method for when we are about to get that hit that will instantly kill us. Also even before the deadeye perma stealth existed so this isn't something new it just allowed us to use d/d if we wanted to without depending on d/p but now that is gone so am I enjoy.

[Raiden The Beast.3016]

Just take out stealth from game and give teef same amount of invu , gozilla dmg combined with hulk substain and unlimited boons like the other (so called not cheese) classes so that we can win fights on equal skill lvl.

[Fat Disgrace.4275]

its funny actually that theirs people who abuse high stealth uptime now have to be careful where they go and somehow its unfair, but its perfectly fine for them say people to sit inside a keep for hours on end and then soloing the lord (which i dont think was actually intended from anets view from the beginning of the game) or to just stay in stealth and 1 shot some 1 when they feel like it. not sympathy at all.

[Will.9785]

I'm inclined to agree... for all of the reasons you pointed out.

 

To put this into perspective... how would people feel if there was a similar mechanic that prevented mesmer clones from being generated? Disabled ranger pets? Prevented condis from ticking more than 2 seconds? Blocks? etc. Because if you are ok with this then you must be OK with those. Stealth is a core aspect of thief. If their core mechanic can be gutted like this then so should every other class' core mechanic.

[Fat Disgrace.4275]

its not gutted, just can't be used around curtain areas as a mean to just simply hide and hang around, even 2 seconds is enough time juke another player(s) and get away. stealth is a means of thief defence and or to land stealth attacks. i was never meant to hide indefinitely, same goes to other stealth heavy classes.

[Dawdler.8521]

> @"Will.9785" said:

> how would people feel if there was a similar mechanic that prevented mesmer clones from being generated?

Oh you mean something like... damage? Something that stops all zerg viability? Yeah that would be totally horrible, luckily there is none of it.

[Shroud.2307]

You can still Stealth after you've been marked. Please stop acting like your weapons have been removed and you're completely defenseless. You are Revealed _every 2 seconds._ This means you cannot use Stealth to wait out cooldowns or to ambush people with 1 shots. You can still enter Stealth long enough to use your Stealth attacks like Backstab, Death's Judgement, etc. Now however, there's a lot more counterplay involved because from the receiving end, you know that if a Deadeye has just entered Stealth (and they're using Rifle), they're probably going to attempt to Death's Judgement you within the next 2 seconds.

 

If we're talking about the throwable trap, this is even more of a non-issue. First of all, you can remove Revealed if you're a Deadeye. Which 9 times out of 10, is going to be why someone is throwing it at you in the first place. Second, it's not like it's difficult to see that someone has equipped this item. You can't dodge it but you've got all the mobility in the world to get the hell out of it's range.

 

I do understand how frustrating it is to be Revealed at a crucial moment however. I've died because of Marked twice now, but only because I'm still adjusting to it and forgot it was a thing. I needed Stealth to reposition while I was on my Ranger and got gibbed because I wasn't prepared when I was Revealed. Similar thing happened on my Engi when I was trying to avoid a small gank squad with Sneak Gyro.

 

That said, if you do get Marked as a Thief, just do what you do best. Run.

[DemonSeed.3528]

> @"SpellOfIniquity.1780" said:

> if you're a Deadeye. Which 9 times out of 10, is going to be why someone is throwing it at you in the first place. Second, it's not like it's difficult to see that someone has equipped this item. You can't dodge it but you've got all the mobility in the world to get the hell out of it's range.

I think for certain CS/SA/DE builds, mobility is very limited to 2 death's retreat and shadow step if they have it slotted, after which death comes quick lol.

[Bezerker.2379]

> @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said:

> I remember one of the arguments thieves used to throw around to defend stealth is that everyone has access to it.

> So now with the marked mechanic the narrative has changed?

 

It's that deadeye's spec was completely pigeon holed into it. Many of us ran NON stealth deadeye builds pre rework. Then, they reworked it and removed the traits that made anything except stealth viable. They nerfed other weapon sets to the point where we have so little options left if we want to play deadeye.

 

We are playing the game the way arenanet forced us to if we want to play deadeye. Now we are told that's broken. Malicious stealth attacks were retarded. Old deadeye was fine except the malice system could have used a better changeup. (I dig the active build up vs waiting for 6 years). That's it.

[Will.9785]

> @"Dawdler.8521" said:

> > @"Will.9785" said:

> > how would people feel if there was a similar mechanic that prevented mesmer clones from being generated?

> Oh you mean something like... damage?

 

Damage doesn't prevent them from being created. I'm taking something along the lines of this new marked mechanic wherein every 5 seconds your clones are automatically killed and you cannot create any new ones for 2 seconds.

 

Same thing for necro condi - every 5 seconds your condis are all cleansed and for 2 seconds you cant apply new ones.

 

Seems fair right? I mean since folks are OK with thief getting broken they should be ok with these changes too.

[apharma.3741]

> @"Fat Disgrace.4275" said:

> its not gutted, just can't be used around curtain areas as a mean to just simply hide and hang around, even 2 seconds is enough time juke another player(s) and get away. stealth is a means of thief defence and or to land stealth attacks. i was never meant to hide indefinitely, same goes to other stealth heavy classes.

 

2s is not if the other player is actually 3 PPT monkeys who HAVE to make sure sentries and dolyaks are properly looked after otherwise their T3 keep might not have enough siege in it. 2s is far too short a time, it's shorter than every stealth ability other than veil and signet of midnight, renders several traits at reduced effectiveness for no reason and likewise can render some skills entirely unusable.

 

Ever thought what this marked does to shadow refuge? Yeah it actually makes the skill unusable in the literal sense. This is why I say marked should reveal you after 10s but an argument can be made for 8s allowing you to at least get some stealth after standing around in a big "hit here" circle like a plonker.

 

> @"Will.9785" said:

> > @"Dawdler.8521" said:

> > > @"Will.9785" said:

> > > how would people feel if there was a similar mechanic that prevented mesmer clones from being generated?

> > Oh you mean something like... damage?

>

> Damage doesn't prevent them from being created. I'm taking something along the lines of this new marked mechanic wherein every 5 seconds your clones are automatically killed and you cannot create any new ones for 2 seconds.

>

> Same thing for necro condi - every 5 seconds your condis are all cleansed and for 2 seconds you cant apply new ones.

>

> Seems fair right? I mean since folks are OK with thief getting broken they should be ok with these changes too.

 

Actually the excessively high damage from power creep means clones don't actually live that long in melee (clones frequently die on creation), ranged clones tend to last a lot longer but then the shatters travel at **base movement speed** to the enemy which honestly if you can't dodge or simply outrun at that point then you'd have to be a potato. Clones for the most part have cool downs (unless using DE) so yeah the power creep has definitely affected clones in a similar way to how you describe and now they have to deal with what little stealth they have being destroyed by marked.

 

We're in the same boat ya know.

[Fat Disgrace.4275]

> @"apharma.3741" said:

> > @"Fat Disgrace.4275" said:

> > its not gutted, just can't be used around curtain areas as a mean to just simply hide and hang around, even 2 seconds is enough time juke another player(s) and get away. stealth is a means of thief defence and or to land stealth attacks. i was never meant to hide indefinitely, same goes to other stealth heavy classes.

>

> 2s is not if the other player is actually 3 PPT monkeys who HAVE to make sure sentries and dolyaks are properly looked after otherwise their T3 keep might not have enough siege in it. 2s is far too short a time, it's shorter than every stealth ability other than veil and signet of midnight, renders several traits at reduced effectiveness for no reason and likewise can render some skills entirely unusable.

>

> Ever thought what this marked does to shadow refuge? Yeah it actually makes the skill unusable in the literal sense. This is why I say marked should reveal you after 10s but an argument can be made for 8s allowing you to at least get some stealth after standing around in a big "hit here" circle like a plonker.

>

> > @"Will.9785" said:

> > > @"Dawdler.8521" said:

> > > > @"Will.9785" said:

> > > > how would people feel if there was a similar mechanic that prevented mesmer clones from being generated?

> > > Oh you mean something like... damage?

> >

> > Damage doesn't prevent them from being created. I'm taking something along the lines of this new marked mechanic wherein every 5 seconds your clones are automatically killed and you cannot create any new ones for 2 seconds.

> >

> > Same thing for necro condi - every 5 seconds your condis are all cleansed and for 2 seconds you cant apply new ones.

> >

> > Seems fair right? I mean since folks are OK with thief getting broken they should be ok with these changes too.

>

> Actually the excessively high damage from power creep means clones don't actually live that long in melee (clones frequently die on creation), ranged clones tend to last a lot longer but then the shatters travel at **base movement speed** to the enemy which honestly if you can't dodge or simply outrun at that point then you'd have to be a potato. Clones for the most part have cool downs (unless using DE) so yeah the power creep has definitely affected clones in a similar way to how you describe and now they have to deal with what little stealth they have being destroyed by marked.

>

> We're in the same boat ya know.

 

Ok, well #1 You shouldn't be expecting to achieve much if there is a solo person vs 2/3 unless they are total potatoes.

 

If you're going to have this thing to reveal after 8/10 seconds then there is 0 point in having this new mechanic at all.

 

People will have to adapt how and where they play if they want to play greedy stealth builds.

[apharma.3741]

> @"Fat Disgrace.4275" said:

> > @"apharma.3741" said:

> > > @"Fat Disgrace.4275" said:

> > > its not gutted, just can't be used around curtain areas as a mean to just simply hide and hang around, even 2 seconds is enough time juke another player(s) and get away. stealth is a means of thief defence and or to land stealth attacks. i was never meant to hide indefinitely, same goes to other stealth heavy classes.

> >

> > 2s is not if the other player is actually 3 PPT monkeys who HAVE to make sure sentries and dolyaks are properly looked after otherwise their T3 keep might not have enough siege in it. 2s is far too short a time, it's shorter than every stealth ability other than veil and signet of midnight, renders several traits at reduced effectiveness for no reason and likewise can render some skills entirely unusable.

> >

> > Ever thought what this marked does to shadow refuge? Yeah it actually makes the skill unusable in the literal sense. This is why I say marked should reveal you after 10s but an argument can be made for 8s allowing you to at least get some stealth after standing around in a big "hit here" circle like a plonker.

> >

> > > @"Will.9785" said:

> > > > @"Dawdler.8521" said:

> > > > > @"Will.9785" said:

> > > > > how would people feel if there was a similar mechanic that prevented mesmer clones from being generated?

> > > > Oh you mean something like... damage?

> > >

> > > Damage doesn't prevent them from being created. I'm taking something along the lines of this new marked mechanic wherein every 5 seconds your clones are automatically killed and you cannot create any new ones for 2 seconds.

> > >

> > > Same thing for necro condi - every 5 seconds your condis are all cleansed and for 2 seconds you cant apply new ones.

> > >

> > > Seems fair right? I mean since folks are OK with thief getting broken they should be ok with these changes too.

> >

> > Actually the excessively high damage from power creep means clones don't actually live that long in melee (clones frequently die on creation), ranged clones tend to last a lot longer but then the shatters travel at **base movement speed** to the enemy which honestly if you can't dodge or simply outrun at that point then you'd have to be a potato. Clones for the most part have cool downs (unless using DE) so yeah the power creep has definitely affected clones in a similar way to how you describe and now they have to deal with what little stealth they have being destroyed by marked.

> >

> > We're in the same boat ya know.

>

> Ok, well #1 You shouldn't be expecting to achieve much if there is a solo person vs 2/3 unless they are total potatoes.

>

> If you're going to have this thing to reveal after 8/10 seconds then there is 0 point in having this new mechanic at all.

>

> People will have to adapt how and where they play if they want to play greedy stealth builds.

 

I don't want to win, I just want to gtfo of there before they pew pew me to death and with only 2s of stealth you ain't escaping no-one. I have a full 5s (2s+3s) of total stealth on my build and I generally use it sparingly but when I see 3 people coming I stack it for 5s and high tail it outta there, most of the time they see me in the distance but I'm ooc and can keep away or at least waypoint if they're hell bent on chasing.

 

The change they made was heavy handed and now punishes ALL stealth users irrespective of how little of it they use. This isn't about being greedy it's about not having your skills reduced in effectiveness for flipping a blooming sentry.

 

Care to comment on how it literally makes a skill in the game (shadow refuge) unusable? I don't know of anything else that affects any other skill in the game like that.

 

Edit: For people that want a non stealth analogy, imagine if marked made it so your guardian mantras had only 1 standard charge and went on full cool down after.

[Fat Disgrace.4275]

> @"apharma.3741" said:

> > @"Fat Disgrace.4275" said:

> > > @"apharma.3741" said:

> > > > @"Fat Disgrace.4275" said:

> > > > its not gutted, just can't be used around curtain areas as a mean to just simply hide and hang around, even 2 seconds is enough time juke another player(s) and get away. stealth is a means of thief defence and or to land stealth attacks. i was never meant to hide indefinitely, same goes to other stealth heavy classes.

> > >

> > > 2s is not if the other player is actually 3 PPT monkeys who HAVE to make sure sentries and dolyaks are properly looked after otherwise their T3 keep might not have enough siege in it. 2s is far too short a time, it's shorter than every stealth ability other than veil and signet of midnight, renders several traits at reduced effectiveness for no reason and likewise can render some skills entirely unusable.

> > >

> > > Ever thought what this marked does to shadow refuge? Yeah it actually makes the skill unusable in the literal sense. This is why I say marked should reveal you after 10s but an argument can be made for 8s allowing you to at least get some stealth after standing around in a big "hit here" circle like a plonker.

> > >

> > > > @"Will.9785" said:

> > > > > @"Dawdler.8521" said:

> > > > > > @"Will.9785" said:

> > > > > > how would people feel if there was a similar mechanic that prevented mesmer clones from being generated?

> > > > > Oh you mean something like... damage?

> > > >

> > > > Damage doesn't prevent them from being created. I'm taking something along the lines of this new marked mechanic wherein every 5 seconds your clones are automatically killed and you cannot create any new ones for 2 seconds.

> > > >

> > > > Same thing for necro condi - every 5 seconds your condis are all cleansed and for 2 seconds you cant apply new ones.

> > > >

> > > > Seems fair right? I mean since folks are OK with thief getting broken they should be ok with these changes too.

> > >

> > > Actually the excessively high damage from power creep means clones don't actually live that long in melee (clones frequently die on creation), ranged clones tend to last a lot longer but then the shatters travel at **base movement speed** to the enemy which honestly if you can't dodge or simply outrun at that point then you'd have to be a potato. Clones for the most part have cool downs (unless using DE) so yeah the power creep has definitely affected clones in a similar way to how you describe and now they have to deal with what little stealth they have being destroyed by marked.

> > >

> > > We're in the same boat ya know.

> >

> > Ok, well #1 You shouldn't be expecting to achieve much if there is a solo person vs 2/3 unless they are total potatoes.

> >

> > If you're going to have this thing to reveal after 8/10 seconds then there is 0 point in having this new mechanic at all.

> >

> > People will have to adapt how and where they play if they want to play greedy stealth builds.

>

> I don't want to win, I just want to gtfo of there before they pew pew me to death and with only 2s of stealth you ain't escaping no-one. I have a full 5s (2s+3s) of total stealth on my build and I generally use it sparingly but when I see 3 people coming I stack it for 5s and high tail it outta there, most of the time they see me in the distance but I'm ooc and can keep away or at least waypoint if they're hell bent on chasing.

>

> The change they made was heavy handed and now punishes ALL stealth users irrespective of how little of it they use. This isn't about being greedy it's about not having your skills reduced in effectiveness for flipping a blooming sentry.

>

> Care to comment on how it literally makes a skill in the game (shadow refuge) unusable? I don't know of anything else that affects any other skill in the game like that.

>

> Edit: For people that want a non stealth analogy, imagine if marked made it so your guardian mantras had only 1 standard charge and went on full cool down after.

 

What utter nonsense. Never ever heard of a necro, ele or a guadain complain about not having stealth while they roam, hell, necro dosnt even have an invul. This is part of roaming, if you dont want to meet people who out number you then you shouldn't be playing solo.

 

Stealth has been heavily abused for many years now and it's about time something got done, and this is only at hot spots- Not the whole of wvw.

[apharma.3741]

> @"Fat Disgrace.4275" said:

> > @"apharma.3741" said:

> > > @"Fat Disgrace.4275" said:

> > > > @"apharma.3741" said:

> > > > > @"Fat Disgrace.4275" said:

> > > > > its not gutted, just can't be used around curtain areas as a mean to just simply hide and hang around, even 2 seconds is enough time juke another player(s) and get away. stealth is a means of thief defence and or to land stealth attacks. i was never meant to hide indefinitely, same goes to other stealth heavy classes.

> > > >

> > > > 2s is not if the other player is actually 3 PPT monkeys who HAVE to make sure sentries and dolyaks are properly looked after otherwise their T3 keep might not have enough siege in it. 2s is far too short a time, it's shorter than every stealth ability other than veil and signet of midnight, renders several traits at reduced effectiveness for no reason and likewise can render some skills entirely unusable.

> > > >

> > > > Ever thought what this marked does to shadow refuge? Yeah it actually makes the skill unusable in the literal sense. This is why I say marked should reveal you after 10s but an argument can be made for 8s allowing you to at least get some stealth after standing around in a big "hit here" circle like a plonker.

> > > >

> > > > > @"Will.9785" said:

> > > > > > @"Dawdler.8521" said:

> > > > > > > @"Will.9785" said:

> > > > > > > how would people feel if there was a similar mechanic that prevented mesmer clones from being generated?

> > > > > > Oh you mean something like... damage?

> > > > >

> > > > > Damage doesn't prevent them from being created. I'm taking something along the lines of this new marked mechanic wherein every 5 seconds your clones are automatically killed and you cannot create any new ones for 2 seconds.

> > > > >

> > > > > Same thing for necro condi - every 5 seconds your condis are all cleansed and for 2 seconds you cant apply new ones.

> > > > >

> > > > > Seems fair right? I mean since folks are OK with thief getting broken they should be ok with these changes too.

> > > >

> > > > Actually the excessively high damage from power creep means clones don't actually live that long in melee (clones frequently die on creation), ranged clones tend to last a lot longer but then the shatters travel at **base movement speed** to the enemy which honestly if you can't dodge or simply outrun at that point then you'd have to be a potato. Clones for the most part have cool downs (unless using DE) so yeah the power creep has definitely affected clones in a similar way to how you describe and now they have to deal with what little stealth they have being destroyed by marked.

> > > >

> > > > We're in the same boat ya know.

> > >

> > > Ok, well #1 You shouldn't be expecting to achieve much if there is a solo person vs 2/3 unless they are total potatoes.

> > >

> > > If you're going to have this thing to reveal after 8/10 seconds then there is 0 point in having this new mechanic at all.

> > >

> > > People will have to adapt how and where they play if they want to play greedy stealth builds.

> >

> > I don't want to win, I just want to gtfo of there before they pew pew me to death and with only 2s of stealth you ain't escaping no-one. I have a full 5s (2s+3s) of total stealth on my build and I generally use it sparingly but when I see 3 people coming I stack it for 5s and high tail it outta there, most of the time they see me in the distance but I'm ooc and can keep away or at least waypoint if they're hell bent on chasing.

> >

> > The change they made was heavy handed and now punishes ALL stealth users irrespective of how little of it they use. This isn't about being greedy it's about not having your skills reduced in effectiveness for flipping a blooming sentry.

> >

> > Care to comment on how it literally makes a skill in the game (shadow refuge) unusable? I don't know of anything else that affects any other skill in the game like that.

> >

> > Edit: For people that want a non stealth analogy, imagine if marked made it so your guardian mantras had only 1 standard charge and went on full cool down after.

>

> What utter nonsense. Never ever heard of a necro, ele or a guadain complain about not having stealth while they roam, hell, necro dosnt even have an invul. This is part of roaming, if you dont want to meet people who out number you then you shouldn't be playing solo.

>

> Stealth has been heavily abused for many years now and it's about time something got done, and this is only at hot spots- Not the whole of wvw.

 

When I go roaming I pick fights I can win, I generally won't fight 3v1 as a power mesmer because unless they're potatoes 2-3 hits will down me. Sure if I ran condi I'd take the 3v1 because it's as strong as everyone elses faceroll builds.

 

Guardian's don't complain because when they roam they run DH which has traps that will cripple enemies slowing them down, 2 blocks, 1 projectile block, 1 invuln 2 teleports, 2 leaps which also heal for 2.5k and can fire off CC behind them to slow down pursuers. Oh and they heal for 2k on every meditation while having the trap heal which tends to heal them as they go.

 

Ele's don't complain because they are largely absent but I can tell you if they don't run focus offhand they complain about all the pew pew in the game. With focus you hit magnetic wave to protect from projectiles, hit invuln, conjure FGS and high tail it, you know FGS will let you outrun most people right but pew pews will still be a threat, good thing you can heal enough to not be an issue. However for the most part without LoS they will die to pew pew, they can stay ahead of melee chasers until FGS runs out though and hopefully get to safer grounds.

 

Seriously Necro? Necro's constantly complain about roaming and why would they roam when they're near mandatory for zerging while historically one of the worse roamers, even reaper usually has a little babysitter.

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/60667/leave-your-necros-play-ranger

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/60753/condi-reaper-wvw-roaming-just-had-to-try-it half complaint but a pleasant surprise that corrupt spam works.

Yes, I know of you Eremite Angel, you're the exception to the rule.

 

You don't see other classes complain about roaming because instead of stealth they have blocks, invulns, movement increasing abilities (really most roamers aren't all that far apart in speed now outside of a few cases) and really good sustain. Thief and mesmer have these options very limited for them and often have terrible sustained healing because they were always meant to use stealth to get away.

 

Yes stealth has been abused for years but the marked change punishes **ALL STEALTH USE** because of a few instances where poor game design has allowed for an abuse of it. As I say it's like if guardians suddenly have their mantras reduced to 1 standard charge just for flipping a sentry or having your blocks and invulns cut short for daring to venture out alone.

[MUDse.7623]

> @"Fat Disgrace.4275" said:

> > @"apharma.3741" said:

> > > @"Fat Disgrace.4275" said:

> > > > @"apharma.3741" said:

> > > > > @"Fat Disgrace.4275" said:

> > > > > its not gutted, just can't be used around curtain areas as a mean to just simply hide and hang around, even 2 seconds is enough time juke another player(s) and get away. stealth is a means of thief defence and or to land stealth attacks. i was never meant to hide indefinitely, same goes to other stealth heavy classes.

> > > >

> > > > 2s is not if the other player is actually 3 PPT monkeys who HAVE to make sure sentries and dolyaks are properly looked after otherwise their T3 keep might not have enough siege in it. 2s is far too short a time, it's shorter than every stealth ability other than veil and signet of midnight, renders several traits at reduced effectiveness for no reason and likewise can render some skills entirely unusable.

> > > >

> > > > Ever thought what this marked does to shadow refuge? Yeah it actually makes the skill unusable in the literal sense. This is why I say marked should reveal you after 10s but an argument can be made for 8s allowing you to at least get some stealth after standing around in a big "hit here" circle like a plonker.

> > > >

> > > > > @"Will.9785" said:

> > > > > > @"Dawdler.8521" said:

> > > > > > > @"Will.9785" said:

> > > > > > > how would people feel if there was a similar mechanic that prevented mesmer clones from being generated?

> > > > > > Oh you mean something like... damage?

> > > > >

> > > > > Damage doesn't prevent them from being created. I'm taking something along the lines of this new marked mechanic wherein every 5 seconds your clones are automatically killed and you cannot create any new ones for 2 seconds.

> > > > >

> > > > > Same thing for necro condi - every 5 seconds your condis are all cleansed and for 2 seconds you cant apply new ones.

> > > > >

> > > > > Seems fair right? I mean since folks are OK with thief getting broken they should be ok with these changes too.

> > > >

> > > > Actually the excessively high damage from power creep means clones don't actually live that long in melee (clones frequently die on creation), ranged clones tend to last a lot longer but then the shatters travel at **base movement speed** to the enemy which honestly if you can't dodge or simply outrun at that point then you'd have to be a potato. Clones for the most part have cool downs (unless using DE) so yeah the power creep has definitely affected clones in a similar way to how you describe and now they have to deal with what little stealth they have being destroyed by marked.

> > > >

> > > > We're in the same boat ya know.

> > >

> > > Ok, well #1 You shouldn't be expecting to achieve much if there is a solo person vs 2/3 unless they are total potatoes.

> > >

> > > If you're going to have this thing to reveal after 8/10 seconds then there is 0 point in having this new mechanic at all.

> > >

> > > People will have to adapt how and where they play if they want to play greedy stealth builds.

> >

> > I don't want to win, I just want to gtfo of there before they pew pew me to death and with only 2s of stealth you ain't escaping no-one. I have a full 5s (2s+3s) of total stealth on my build and I generally use it sparingly but when I see 3 people coming I stack it for 5s and high tail it outta there, most of the time they see me in the distance but I'm ooc and can keep away or at least waypoint if they're hell bent on chasing.

> >

> > The change they made was heavy handed and now punishes ALL stealth users irrespective of how little of it they use. This isn't about being greedy it's about not having your skills reduced in effectiveness for flipping a blooming sentry.

> >

> > Care to comment on how it literally makes a skill in the game (shadow refuge) unusable? I don't know of anything else that affects any other skill in the game like that.

> >

> > Edit: For people that want a non stealth analogy, imagine if marked made it so your guardian mantras had only 1 standard charge and went on full cool down after.

>

> What utter nonsense. **Never ever heard of a necro, ele or a guadain complain about not having stealth while they roam**, hell, necro dosnt even have an invul. This is part of roaming, if you dont want to meet people who out number you then you shouldn't be playing solo.

>

> Stealth has been heavily abused for many years now and it's about time something got done, and this is only at hot spots- Not the whole of wvw.

 

why would they complain? they did simply roam on other professions or in groups mostly as it was compared to utilizing stealth for picking fights, highly inefficient.

if we get most our damage skills on rev, ele, necro etc. turned to single target only and the support skills to self support only, then the core double bow rangers now following tag will argument in the same way you do now: but i had to deal with that since allways, time you guys play on my level of efficiency.

[Dawdler.8521]

> @"apharma.3741" said:

> Yes stealth has been abused for years but the marked change punishes **ALL STEALTH USE** because of a few instances where poor game design has allowed for an abuse of it.

 

I went to a ballooned tower, hit 4 on my torch and was like... meh. It changed nothing. And even if I could stealth again the reveal was only a couple of seconds. I dont feel punished in the slightest.

 

[apharma.3741]

> @"Dawdler.8521" said:

> > @"apharma.3741" said:

> > Yes stealth has been abused for years but the marked change punishes **ALL STEALTH USE** because of a few instances where poor game design has allowed for an abuse of it.

>

> I went to a ballooned tower, hit 4 on my torch and was like... meh. It changed nothing. And even if I could stealth again the reveal was only a couple of seconds. I dont feel punished in the slightest.

>

 

Did you have 2 people and a ranger chasing you?

[Bigpapasmurf.5623]

Thief players here talking like its the death of their class, forgetting it only applies WHEN THEY ARE MARKED. I play ghost DE from time to time (for the lolz) and this def shook things up, however when I am fighting outside the range of a sentry/tower with the radar (which is frequent), it really doesnt impact me. Its rare someone will throw a marked trap in the middle of nowhere and if they do, its typically on a road or bridge which are super easy to avoid (I personally dont run on a road or bridge myself)

 

Its not that big of a deal. I still perma stealth and still down many people.

[Dawdler.8521]

> @"apharma.3741" said:

> > @"Dawdler.8521" said:

> > > @"apharma.3741" said:

> > > Yes stealth has been abused for years but the marked change punishes **ALL STEALTH USE** because of a few instances where poor game design has allowed for an abuse of it.

> >

> > I went to a ballooned tower, hit 4 on my torch and was like... meh. It changed nothing. And even if I could stealth again the reveal was only a couple of seconds. I dont feel punished in the slightest.

> >

>

> Did you have 2 people and a ranger chasing you?

No, because why would I be silly enough to try to fight 3 people in a position where they have a massive advantage both by the mere presence of the tower but also the fact its ballooned so it'll draw others, instead of luring them out of range where I can have the advantage of stealthing at will?

 

Well, 2 people and a *ranger*. Rangers arent people, I can concede that.

 

[apharma.3741]

> @"Dawdler.8521" said:

> > @"apharma.3741" said:

> > > @"Dawdler.8521" said:

> > > > @"apharma.3741" said:

> > > > Yes stealth has been abused for years but the marked change punishes **ALL STEALTH USE** because of a few instances where poor game design has allowed for an abuse of it.

> > >

> > > I went to a ballooned tower, hit 4 on my torch and was like... meh. It changed nothing. And even if I could stealth again the reveal was only a couple of seconds. I dont feel punished in the slightest.

> > >

> >

> > Did you have 2 people and a ranger chasing you?

> No, because why would I be silly enough to try to fight 3 people in a position where they have a massive advantage both by the mere presence of the tower but also the fact its ballooned so it'll draw others, instead of luring them out of range where I can have the advantage of stealthing at will?

>

> Well, 2 people and a *ranger*. Rangers arent people, I can concede that.

>

 

Tell you what, get marked by a sentry and then have a few people chase you, see how you feel about the marked change after that. I almost don't go near towers that have watchtower, you're guaranteed 5-10 people turn up per person spotted on the map. I wish I was joking, wait till you fight Kodash.