Obtena.7952 Posted November 19, 2018 Share Posted November 19, 2018 > @"Valeria Mudgarden.3054" said: > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > @"Valeria Mudgarden.3054" said: > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > @"Valeria Mudgarden.3054" said: > > > > > > @"Dante.1763" said: > > > > > > > @"Valeria Mudgarden.3054" said: > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Valeria Mudgarden.3054" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Valeria Mudgarden.3054" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"ProverbsofHell.2307" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Valeria Mudgarden.3054" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Valeria Mudgarden.3054" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > **That statement doesn't make sense.** > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > We have already established that all items have an upfront one-time cost and that the extractor does not require any additional gold to use. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The item has a value; when you remove its sigil with the extractor, that item and the sigil still have value that equals that of the original item, within it's TP market price variations. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > **The extractor neither MAKES gold nor does it cost any gold per use.** > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I can not discuss it further without getting into how to exploit "free" "unlimited use" i guess Anet will have to figure it out or they themselves might need to think outside the box as well. I'll just ask the curious to use their imaginations on this one and leave it at that. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Whatever the scenario you have in mind, there is absolutely no justification to make any of the changes you have suggested in this thread. I'm pretty sure there is no way for a player to get 'free' items, put them through the extractor and get a positive net value from it; everything you can salvage in this game, or extract from, has a 'cost', whether you earn it completing content (which is a time costs) or pay for it with a currency, ingame or Real Life conversion to gold. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > it's ok. i'll not say the way to exploit it via silverwastes, level 80 trial exotic gear and unlimited, free, without cool-down extractions. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That's a valid point and wasn't aware of that exploit. But safe to say anyone who is making gold from doing that is going to get in trouble for it. I would not recommend being tempted into pursuing this method, if you are reading this. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Exactly ... so why all this thread about trying to get cool downs on Extractor or removing costs on Salvage tools? If you think someone is abusing an unintended mechanic, just report it and describe what's happening in the report. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > why is this the only tool in game that has ZERO RNG, Costs nothing per use, has zero cool-down? > > > > > > > > > > > my ghost pepper node, salvage tools and harvest tools/nodes are all layered with RNG. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No they aren't layered with RNG ... harvesting tools give you harvests EVERY time they get used and nodes gives you consistent amounts every time you farm them. Are you just inventing things at this point to argue? I don't argue with people that aren't being honest. If you want to have a discussion and people to take you seriously, you better start firming up your 'facts'. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > yes, they are layerd with RNG. the tools, the nodes and ALL are time gated. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Time gates are not RNG ... do you know what the concepts are behind the terms you are throwing around here? It doesn't sound like you are familiar with them. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > therefore a time gate on the extraction process wouldn't hurt it a single bit. since it has no RNG. > > > > > > > /edit > > > > > > > 5 per day sounds fair. > > > > > > > > > > > > Your arguments for changing this make no freaking sense, they are hard to follow, and they constantly are changing. You arent going to have a ton of people agree with you if you cant state facts you know. > > > > > > > > > > > > ON TOPIC: given how painful this thing is to use(and no, i dont nor will i ever own one.) there already is a time gate. > > > > > > > > > > if you dont own one, how is it painful to use? and why is this being brought up as some sort of excuse? > > > > > > > > Excuse for maintaining the game as it is? Are we in the twilight zone here? There is never an excuse **needed** to leave something alone that works as intended and isn't broken. :confused: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > changing builds without templates hurts my fingers. why isn't THAT fixed? > > > > Hey, if you want build templates, make a thread about it. That has zero to do with putting a CD or daily limited use on Endless Extractor. It also doesn't refute my statement: There is no need for an excuse to leave well intended and well functioning mechanics alone. > > if it's hurting people to use, how is it "well intended and well functioning" mechanics? I don't know what you are going on about ... Endless Extraction tool doesn't physically hurt anyone; that's nonsense and you know it. The poster was simply making a point that the item is cumbersome to use. Let's get back to the thread; do you actually have a reason Extractor should be changed other than 'because it wouldn't hurt anyone to change it'? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Linken.6345 Posted November 19, 2018 Share Posted November 19, 2018 > @"Valeria Mudgarden.3054" said: > Thanks for the post Palador. What is your take on having to buy extractors with real money now, in order to extract a rune/sigil? since the update, i havent recovered a single rune/sigil via the "old" methods (copper/silver fed etc) . There is a reason for that you dont recover the sigils anymore they are automaticly destroyed and sometimes you get the materials for them. You could buy a endless upgrade extractor and pay dubble having to salvage both the item and the rune separately tho. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astralporing.1957 Posted November 19, 2018 Share Posted November 19, 2018 > @"Valeria Mudgarden.3054" said: > > @"ProverbsofHell.2307" said: > > > @"Valeria Mudgarden.3054" said: > > > So, this item can go un-checked producing gold, while my ghost pepper node is on a 24 hour cool-down because it'll crash the market? > > > > > > > Explain to me how you think one can make gold with the endless extractor. I have it and trust me, using it to make gold is a waste of time. > > so you're not making any gold extracting, then salvaging upgrades? that seems odd. > /edit > as in the new rune/sigil update Using the black lion kit you can extract upgrade while salvaging the gear. Using Mystic/master kit you can salvage the gear and upgrade at the same time, at 80% effectiveness. Extractor costs over 4k gold. Care to make a guess how many exotics you'd have to salvage before it became more profitable to use infinite extractor over mystic kits? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valeria Mudgarden.3054 Posted November 19, 2018 Author Share Posted November 19, 2018 > @"Astralporing.1957" said: > > @"Valeria Mudgarden.3054" said: > > > @"ProverbsofHell.2307" said: > > > > @"Valeria Mudgarden.3054" said: > > > > So, this item can go un-checked producing gold, while my ghost pepper node is on a 24 hour cool-down because it'll crash the market? > > > > > > > > > > Explain to me how you think one can make gold with the endless extractor. I have it and trust me, using it to make gold is a waste of time. > > > > so you're not making any gold extracting, then salvaging upgrades? that seems odd. > > /edit > > as in the new rune/sigil update > Using the black lion kit you can extract upgrade while salvaging the gear. Using Mystic/master kit you can salvage the gear and upgrade at the same time, at 80% effectiveness. > > Extractor costs over 4k gold. > > Care to make a guess how many exotics you'd have to salvage before it became more profitable to use infinite extractor over mystic kits? > none, if you get the item as a free drop. none at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
azizul.8469 Posted November 19, 2018 Share Posted November 19, 2018 > @"Valeria Mudgarden.3054" said: > none, if you get the item as a free drop. none at all. free drop ? like 1 in 100000000 black lion chest drop ? good luck.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astralporing.1957 Posted November 19, 2018 Share Posted November 19, 2018 > @"Valeria Mudgarden.3054" said: > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > Upgrade extractor doesn't do the very same thing though; It doesn't produce mats from nothing; it needs to be fed with items. > > > > Again, all these items have a one time cost; the difference is that I don't 'feed' my harvesting tool or my node with something to benefit from it. The extractor must be fed. > and how much does the extraction process cost in copper/silver? Nothing. But at the same time it produces also nothing. > @"Valeria Mudgarden.3054" said: > why is this the only tool in game that has ZERO RNG, Costs nothing per use, has zero cool-down? Infinite gathering tools also have no rng, cost nothing per use, and have no cooldown. > @"Valeria Mudgarden.3054" said: > yes, they are layerd with RNG. the tools, the nodes and ALL are time gated. Not tools - nodes. So are the items you extract from (and, unlike with node that refreshes after 24 hours, a single item never refreshes after you extract the upgrade). The tools themselves in both cases however have no rng, no cost and no cooldown. > @"Valeria Mudgarden.3054" said: > none, if you get the item as a free drop. none at all. That's a big if. You are also forgetting opportunity cost - even if you drop it, by using it you forfeit the 4k gold you'd have earned by selling it. So, again, back to my previous question - how many items you'd need to process to get even? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pifil.5193 Posted November 19, 2018 Share Posted November 19, 2018 > @"Valeria Mudgarden.3054" said: > > @"Shikigami.4013" said: > > > @"Valeria Mudgarden.3054" said: > > > > @"FrizzFreston.5290" said: > > > > The price went up because normal salvage kits cant obtain runes anymore. > > > > > > > > Why would it need a cooldown? Just to make a convenience item less convenient? > > > why does my garden plot, that lets me craft ACCOUNT BOUND kitten (2h) primers need to be on a cool-down? just to make a convenience item less convenient? > > > > Because it produces things from nothing. Upgrade extractors do not produce things from nothing, they just take things out that already existed and are in your possession. To extract an upgrade you first have to have obtained the item with the upgrade. > > so what you're saying is, you cant make a new character and extract the runes/sigils endlessly from the items that the game gives you, from nothing. correct? > /edit > the game gives you for nothing* That is correct, at least you can't extract the runes and sigils from the vast majority of the equipment that the game gives you, you can't salvage it either. Maybe from certain green level up rewards but certainly not from the exotics you get. You also can't salvage or extract the runes and sigils from the equipment that the game gives you when you use the level 80 boost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swagger.1459 Posted November 19, 2018 Share Posted November 19, 2018 > @"Valeria Mudgarden.3054" said: > > @"Astralporing.1957" said: > > > @"Valeria Mudgarden.3054" said: > > > > @"ProverbsofHell.2307" said: > > > > > @"Valeria Mudgarden.3054" said: > > > > > So, this item can go un-checked producing gold, while my ghost pepper node is on a 24 hour cool-down because it'll crash the market? > > > > > > > > > > > > > Explain to me how you think one can make gold with the endless extractor. I have it and trust me, using it to make gold is a waste of time. > > > > > > so you're not making any gold extracting, then salvaging upgrades? that seems odd. > > > /edit > > > as in the new rune/sigil update > > Using the black lion kit you can extract upgrade while salvaging the gear. Using Mystic/master kit you can salvage the gear and upgrade at the same time, at 80% effectiveness. > > > > Extractor costs over 4k gold. > > > > Care to make a guess how many exotics you'd have to salvage before it became more profitable to use infinite extractor over mystic kits? > > > > none, if you get the item as a free drop. none at all. You are making an issue out of nothing. No, the devs are not going to put a "cool down" on this item. This is an ultra rare item drop, and quite costly to purchase, btw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valeria Mudgarden.3054 Posted November 19, 2018 Author Share Posted November 19, 2018 > @"Pifil.5193" said: > > @"Valeria Mudgarden.3054" said: > > > @"Shikigami.4013" said: > > > > @"Valeria Mudgarden.3054" said: > > > > > @"FrizzFreston.5290" said: > > > > > The price went up because normal salvage kits cant obtain runes anymore. > > > > > > > > > > Why would it need a cooldown? Just to make a convenience item less convenient? > > > > why does my garden plot, that lets me craft ACCOUNT BOUND kitten (2h) primers need to be on a cool-down? just to make a convenience item less convenient? > > > > > > Because it produces things from nothing. Upgrade extractors do not produce things from nothing, they just take things out that already existed and are in your possession. To extract an upgrade you first have to have obtained the item with the upgrade. > > > > so what you're saying is, you cant make a new character and extract the runes/sigils endlessly from the items that the game gives you, from nothing. correct? > > /edit > > the game gives you for nothing* > > That is correct, at least you can't extract the runes and sigils from the vast majority of the equipment that the game gives you, you can't salvage it either. Maybe from certain green level up rewards but certainly not from the exotics you get. > > You also can't salvage or extract the runes and sigils from the equipment that the game gives you when you use the level 80 boost. without going into any detail, i'll just say the mystic forge is mystic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
azizul.8469 Posted November 19, 2018 Share Posted November 19, 2018 can we have "extract all" drop down option for the endless upgrade extractor instead please ? it is a bit tiring to extract one by one if you have 50 ( literally means many) green items in your bag.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pifil.5193 Posted November 19, 2018 Share Posted November 19, 2018 > @"Valeria Mudgarden.3054" said: > > > @"Pifil.5193" said: > > > @"Valeria Mudgarden.3054" said: > > > > @"Shikigami.4013" said: > > > > > @"Valeria Mudgarden.3054" said: > > > > > > @"FrizzFreston.5290" said: > > > > > > The price went up because normal salvage kits cant obtain runes anymore. > > > > > > > > > > > > Why would it need a cooldown? Just to make a convenience item less convenient? > > > > > why does my garden plot, that lets me craft ACCOUNT BOUND kitten (2h) primers need to be on a cool-down? just to make a convenience item less convenient? > > > > > > > > Because it produces things from nothing. Upgrade extractors do not produce things from nothing, they just take things out that already existed and are in your possession. To extract an upgrade you first have to have obtained the item with the upgrade. > > > > > > so what you're saying is, you cant make a new character and extract the runes/sigils endlessly from the items that the game gives you, from nothing. correct? > > > /edit > > > the game gives you for nothing* > > > > That is correct, at least you can't extract the runes and sigils from the vast majority of the equipment that the game gives you, you can't salvage it either. Maybe from certain green level up rewards but certainly not from the exotics you get. > > > > You also can't salvage or extract the runes and sigils from the equipment that the game gives you when you use the level 80 boost. > > without going into any detail, i'll just say the mystic forge is mystic. You also can't put those level 80 boost items in the mystic forge. If people are forging level up rewards then that's fine, as they're one time rewards. If there is an exploit then you should report it to exploits@arena.net Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valeria Mudgarden.3054 Posted November 19, 2018 Author Share Posted November 19, 2018 > @"azizul.8469" said: > can we have "extract all" drop down option for the endless upgrade extractor instead please ? it is a bit tiring to extract one by one if you have 50 ( literally means many) green items in your bag.... and create the same problem that the copper/silver fed salvage all did? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
azizul.8469 Posted November 19, 2018 Share Posted November 19, 2018 > @"Valeria Mudgarden.3054" said: > and create the same problem that the copper/silver fed salvage all did? wouldn't be much problem or complaint since not many have it.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valeria Mudgarden.3054 Posted November 19, 2018 Author Share Posted November 19, 2018 > @"azizul.8469" said: > > @"Valeria Mudgarden.3054" said: > > and create the same problem that the copper/silver fed salvage all did? > > wouldn't be much problem or complaint since not many have it.... > i dont have those numbers, do you have them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
azizul.8469 Posted November 19, 2018 Share Posted November 19, 2018 > @"Valeria Mudgarden.3054" said: > i dont have those numbers, do you have them? https://www.gw2bltc.com/en/item/86497-Endless-Upgrade-Extractor-Contract seeing the number of listed on trading post, i doubt there are many people using it. super rare items don't drop like shit.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimbru.6014 Posted November 19, 2018 Share Posted November 19, 2018 > @"Valeria Mudgarden.3054" said: > > @"azizul.8469" said: > > > > wouldn't be much problem or complaint since not many have it.... > > > i dont have those numbers, do you have them? > It's a one in a bazillion drop from the BL chests, and only the "One Percent" of rich players can afford it from the TP. So safe to say there's not many in game, without needing exact numbers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obtena.7952 Posted November 19, 2018 Share Posted November 19, 2018 We still don't have a reasoning behind the suggestion; the OP never provided one. The whole discussion is completely academic if no one can pony up a legit reason to put a limited daily use on a tool intended to allow for endless, unrestricted uses. Don't get side tracked with deflecting questions about if you have numbers or not either. The numbers matter little if we don't have a valid reason to consider the change. Elusive posts about mysterious unintended game mechanics don't cut it either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valeria Mudgarden.3054 Posted November 19, 2018 Author Share Posted November 19, 2018 > @"Obtena.7952" said: > We still don't have a reasoning behind the suggestion; the OP never provided one. The whole discussion is completely academic if no one can pony up a legit reason to put a limited daily use on a tool intended to allow for endless, unrestricted uses. Don't get side tracked with deflecting questions about if you have numbers or not either. The numbers matter little if we don't have a valid reason to consider the change. Elusive posts about mysterious unintended game mechanics don't cut it either. i'm sorry you can't see the reasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
azizul.8469 Posted November 19, 2018 Share Posted November 19, 2018 i bought the permanent extractor because i switch stats a lot on my legendary weapons, depending on gaming mode , but couldn't change the sigil. recently , with the sigil swapping on legendaries, it makes the permanent extractor redundant. i guess the salvage kit revamp is to make up for the redundancy. no need cooldown. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valeria Mudgarden.3054 Posted November 19, 2018 Author Share Posted November 19, 2018 > @"azizul.8469" said: > i bought the permanent extractor because i switch stats a lot on my legendary weapons, depending on gaming mode , but couldn't change the sigil. recently , with the sigil swapping on legendaries, it makes the permanent extractor redundant. i guess the salvage kit revamp is to make up for the redundancy. no need cooldown. why couldn't you change the sigii? i could change the sigils on mine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obtena.7952 Posted November 19, 2018 Share Posted November 19, 2018 > @"Valeria Mudgarden.3054" said: > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > We still don't have a reasoning behind the suggestion; the OP never provided one. The whole discussion is completely academic if no one can pony up a legit reason to put a limited daily use on a tool intended to allow for endless, unrestricted uses. Don't get side tracked with deflecting questions about if you have numbers or not either. The numbers matter little if we don't have a valid reason to consider the change. Elusive posts about mysterious unintended game mechanics don't cut it either. > > i'm sorry you can't see the reasons. It's not clear anyone does either. Just people people argue with you doesn't mean you've given good reason for them to do so. I see little reason to add a limited daily use to the tool. Whether I see the reasons or not isn't relevant; it's your suggestion to do it, so clearly you have some reasons to provide. Does anyone else here understand why an Endless Extraction tool should have a cap on it's daily use? I don't think I'm alone here given the nature of every single response you have received so far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
azizul.8469 Posted November 19, 2018 Share Posted November 19, 2018 > @"Valeria Mudgarden.3054" said: > why couldn't you change the sigii? i could change the sigils on mine. sigil swapping on legendaries is only recently (Oct 30 2018) . prior to that you can't switch sigil. EDIT: and, there are people who use it for pure convenience on non-legendary gear (ascended etc). why would you limit the use if they change runes/sigils often ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palador.2170 Posted November 19, 2018 Share Posted November 19, 2018 > @"Valeria Mudgarden.3054" said: > Thanks for the post Palador. What is your take on having to buy extractors with real money now, in order to extract a rune/sigil? since the update, i havent recovered a single rune/sigil via the "old" methods (copper/silver fed etc) . I'm going to be honest. I see why they did it, but I don't like it. If the salvage kits still extracted the upgrades like they used to, then you'd have to use a second salvage to turn them into materials. And given the low rate of return on the actually valuable parts of the upgrades, that wouldn't be cost effective on most of them (if not all of them). So, I can see why they made it salvage the upgrades automatically with the first use, but I do wish I could get them back anyway. The choice to salvage them or not was a crappy one (due to low returns), so they removed the choice from normal play. That may make it easy to avoid the choice, but it doesn't change the fact that it was a crappy choice. They need to rethink their numbers, and maybe rethink having them automatically salvage with the item they're in. Edit: To make my answer to the question very clear, I don't like it. I don't think we have to buy them with "real money", as there are some other options (if you're lucky). But it still requires you to go out of your way to do it, and burn up possibly limited resources to do it. Do it enough, and you WILL need to burn real money eventually to keep going. It's bad, before and after that point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swagger.1459 Posted November 19, 2018 Share Posted November 19, 2018 > @"Valeria Mudgarden.3054" said: > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > We still don't have a reasoning behind the suggestion; the OP never provided one. The whole discussion is completely academic if no one can pony up a legit reason to put a limited daily use on a tool intended to allow for endless, unrestricted uses. Don't get side tracked with deflecting questions about if you have numbers or not either. The numbers matter little if we don't have a valid reason to consider the change. Elusive posts about mysterious unintended game mechanics don't cut it either. > > i'm sorry you can't see the reasons. It's your responsibility to lay out the reasons, and some type of facts behind them... Do you have any samples of how much someone is earning daily by using the endless upgrade extractor? Do you have any data to back up what you are talking about so the devs would be inclined to make changes? ...I ask because you have nothing right now besides complaining and comparing to a home gathering node... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valeria Mudgarden.3054 Posted November 19, 2018 Author Share Posted November 19, 2018 > @"Swagger.1459" said: > > @"Valeria Mudgarden.3054" said: > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > We still don't have a reasoning behind the suggestion; the OP never provided one. The whole discussion is completely academic if no one can pony up a legit reason to put a limited daily use on a tool intended to allow for endless, unrestricted uses. Don't get side tracked with deflecting questions about if you have numbers or not either. The numbers matter little if we don't have a valid reason to consider the change. Elusive posts about mysterious unintended game mechanics don't cut it either. > > > > i'm sorry you can't see the reasons. > > It's your responsibility to lay out the reasons, and some type of facts behind them... > > Do you have any samples of how much someone is earning daily by using the endless upgrade extractor? Do you have any data to back up what you are talking about so the devs would be inclined to make changes? ...I ask because you have nothing right now besides complaining and comparing to a home gathering node... 90 gold per hour. taken from a reddit post/link. that may or may not have been removed. > @"azizul.8469" said: > > @"Valeria Mudgarden.3054" said: > > why couldn't you change the sigii? i could change the sigils on mine. > > sigil swapping on legendaries is only recently (Oct 30 2018) . prior to that you can't switch sigil. > > EDIT: > and, there are people who use it for pure convenience on non-legendary gear (ascended etc). why would you limit the use if they change runes/sigils often ? > oh so you mean you could swap sigils like me, you just wanted to pay gold to do it for free? therefore you could swap them but it costed you gold? again TY Palador Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now